(rant)The future of AMPS aka cellular companies loosing touch with reality.
David L
every cellular service in a rural area. Cross posted to the Verizon
Group.
You need help from Larry W4CSC!
-----
David
"N9WOS" <n9...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:<QB8ka.49242$ja4.3...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>...
> It gets me that you can't buy a "AMPS only" phone and get it initiated in
> the US.
> But AMPS is the only actual standard for the whole US.
> If you want to buy a "AMPS only" phone, you would have to go to Canada.
> Motorola still produces the 2950 and sells it up north of the border.
>
> Down here, you can buy any odd wacko mode hand held phone and get it
> initiated.
> But the thing operates in AMPS mode all the time where I live.
> And hand held phones are worthless where I live.
>
> And you can't buy any new full power bag phones any more.
>
> They sell 1900meg dual band phones around here even though we
> just got a AMPS tower put on the kelly hill last year.
> Forget about 1900meg systems.
> And the new tower finally allowed the locals to get half way solid but
> scratchy
> coverage using a bag phone or car phone with mag mount antenna.
>
> If you are using a hand held phone or a bag phone with the ducky antenna
> and you get out of Nashville, you might as well turn the phone off because
> it is worthless in the hills around here.
>
> I can't see how they expect to go to 800meg and 1900meg digital and turn
> off the old AMPS system in five years or so as some people are talking
> about.
> With the range of the 1900meg system, it will be of use to people right
> along
> the road, but to most of the people around here, it will be worthless.
>
> 800meg TDMA is the only reasonable digital setup around here.
> You can find a few TDMA car phones around here but they are hard to come by.
> The new digital car phone that nokia is coming out with will help but it
> will be
> to expensive for the normal farmers that can use them around here.
>
> The phones that I have dragged up around here are
> an old Motorola AMPS car phone.
> A Motorola AMPS/TDMA car phone.
> A nokia AMPS bag phone.
>
> I have them set up with cingular prepaid because that is the only way to
> get them running around here.
> If it wasn't for the bag phones around here, you might as well say that we
> don't have cellular service.
>
> I wish that the cellular companies would pull there head out of the ground
> and
> allow people to set up old AMPS phones.
> I wish the cellular companies would get the AMPS coverage solid enough for
> the people around here to actually use those dinky small phones that they
> are pushing now
> before they worry about discontinuing the AMPS system and putting in wacko
> digital systems
> that will probably have worse coverage.
> When we are stuck in two feet of snow on some back road 10 miles from no
> where,
> We don't care about what fancy features the phone has, we just want the dang
> thing to work.
>
> If they want to set up new digital systems, then fine!!! Just don't force it
> down are throat.
>
> The AMPS coverage they just put in will be the backbone of the cellular
> system around
> here for the next 10 years at least.
> It they switch it to some wacko mode system and phase out AMPS then we will
> basically
> have no service again.
>
> I don't see how they can justify putting in a dense enough system around
> here
> to support the newer digital modes that are coming out.
> And if they switch it to "800meg CDMA only" then the coverage will be
> useless as well.
> Only hand held phones are available for that mode and hand held phones are
> worthless here.
> And the new car phones are two expensive.
>
> People say that AMPS will be gone in five years.
> I say that want anyone around here to use the system, it will be around a
> lot longer than that.
> And I have an odd feeling that AMPS will be something that just won't go
> away.
> It will be like the old serial and parallel port on the computers.
> 20 years from now they will still be talking about phasing out the old AMPS
> systems.
>
> (gets off of soap box)
> Thank you for your time! We now return you to your regular programming! :)
N9WOS
Please don't cross post it when I didn't start it as a cross post.
I make an A out of myself enough without other people helping
the world see how much of an A I am. :P
If I want to find more people to bludgeon my head with
blunt objects then I know where to find them :)
George
"David L" <davi...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:e1705cb3.03040...@posting.google.com...
No problem if you like analog only and want a bag phone...just go here
http://www.cellularonenepa.com/p/products.html
That company owns Wayne and Pike counties in PA. It was previously part of a
partnership and was part of our local area but when Verizon traded another
area to Altel to get our area the partnership was lost. So now we have
$0.69/min analog only roaming 10 miles from my home.
Larry W4CSC
>> the US.
because the FCC backed down and still requires it, last time I
checked. OnStar has amps service, for instance, across the country.
>> But AMPS is the only actual standard for the whole US.
Which is EXACTLY why "they" don't want you to have it. AMPS owners
can operate on ANY AMPS system. Their phones cannot be locked to
prevent churning. How awful.
>> If you want to buy a "AMPS only" phone, you would have to go to Canada.
>> Motorola still produces the 2950 and sells it up north of the border.
You can buy 8 AMPS bagphones and a couple of carphones at the Kidney
Foundation thrift shop in N Charleston, SC, TODAY. Prices are about
$2-3US. One of them looked brand new. All of them look like they'll
work fine. I have 3 spares..(c;
>>
>> Down here, you can buy any odd wacko mode hand held phone and get it
>> initiated.
>> But the thing operates in AMPS mode all the time where I live.
>> And hand held phones are worthless where I live.
Handheld phones are worthless 5 miles away from any highway rich
lawyers drive on in the country. From Camden, SC, up US 601 to the NC
border, toyphones are virtually useless unless you "hilltop" to find
service. Don't expect it to ring riding up US 601.
>>
>> And you can't buy any new full power bag phones any more.
On the "upgraded" money maker system, with lots of low level cells
close together to service the 200 mw pocket phones, a full power
bagphone sucks up a whole channel across maybe 6-10 cells! If this
person had a 200mw toyphone, he'd suck up 2 cells, maybe at times, in
a CDMA shared system with 6 or more other users all being charged
airtime simultaneously. Just for example, let's say the 3W beast on
the car antenna sucked up 8 minicells riding down the highway. They
get one minute airtime per minute charged while he's on the phone. If
these same cells had CDMA at 200mw on 2 cells, the 8 cells would have,
maybe 8 cells x 6 users per cell or 48 times as much airtime charging
going on if we can keep him from using his beast. Is it any wonder
the companies want AMPS GONE?!! Let's say we charged the AMPS guy
$2/minute for airtime and 30c/min on CDMA in our example. 30c x 48 =
$14.40/minute if we can run that damned beast off the channel. See
what I mean? They can get even more (24 I think now) on each channel
in the new model CDMA system (If it's different my attackers will tell
you how many.)....making it even MORE imperative we get rid of all
AMPS phones for the sake of REVENUE...especially in large cities
overloaded with users.
They don't care in the country. Digital really isn't worth the bother
because there will be rarely ever when all the A or B system channels
would be full, even of AMPS customers running 3W mobile phones, so
it's not a revenue issue much in the countryside.
>>
>> They sell 1900meg dual band phones around here even though we
>> just got a AMPS tower put on the kelly hill last year.
>> Forget about 1900meg systems.
>> And the new tower finally allowed the locals to get half way solid but
>> scratchy
>> coverage using a bag phone or car phone with mag mount antenna.
Cellular never does anything that involves LOGIC, especially that
pesky RF systems logic where the damned physics of multipath
reflections, awful path loss, etc. keep getting in the way.
>>
>> If you are using a hand held phone or a bag phone with the ducky antenna
>> and you get out of Nashville, you might as well turn the phone off because
>> it is worthless in the hills around here.
A and B system still has AMPS as far as I know. I'll have to go check
the FCC website to see if they have finally implemented this anti-AMPS
insanity. I'm sure it would be interesting to call OnStar, whos whole
system is all AMPS, and let them know the AMPS companies are dropping
their service. General Motors has lots of powerful lawyers on the
payroll...(c;
>>
>> I can't see how they expect to go to 800meg and 1900meg digital and turn
>> off the old AMPS system in five years or so as some people are talking
>> about.
>> With the range of the 1900meg system, it will be of use to people right
>> along
>> the road, but to most of the people around here, it will be worthless.
Did you know the IMTS channels are mostly dead all over the country?
The 152 Mhz band STILL has 16 IMTS "CarPhone" channels. It worked
GREAT in mountainous areas with the powerful carphone transmitters to
mountaintop powerful base stations. Should be easy to scare up some
unused equipment and reliable old Motorola mobiles. Sounds like
thousands of screwed rural users might be interested in taking a step
into the past to get reliable mobile telephone service. Wonder if you
provided a nostalgic answering service operator to go with it if it
wouldn't sell well at a profit margin? Sure would be nice to have the
old "operator" who ran my business back in the car with me,
again....(c; She always made more money for my business than she cost
me....
>>
>> 800meg TDMA is the only reasonable digital setup around here.
>> You can find a few TDMA car phones around here but they are hard to come by.
>> The new digital car phone that nokia is coming out with will help but it
>> will be
>> to expensive for the normal farmers that can use them around here.
Have the farmers around there investigated either buying into
Motorola's trunked radio systems or building their OWN radio repeater
system with a telephone interconnect? I'm sure some of these guys own
a mountain top or two they could erect a nice 100' Rohn tower with a
150W repeater in a box at the base. If cellular refuses to provide
service, there have always BEEN other services they can use.
Also, it might be fun to investigate the possibilities of using
Iridium or one of the Marisat direct-to-satellite phone systems. The
initial investment might not be as high as your own radio system, but
not near as cheap as operating it for peanuts after the initial
investment. (If you put a camper on the mountaintop that has a bed
and stove in it, you can get a phone line for the repeater's telephone
interconnect at residential rates, much cheaper!). Iridium has a
really nice signal anywhere on the planet, now that the US Military
has propped up the failing corporation with a long-term contract.
Marconi is selling Iridium to landline in the UK for
$1.50/minute...not much of an issue to business needing reliable phone
service. There are many US companies also providing Iridium
interconnections at similar rates.
>>
>> The phones that I have dragged up around here are
>> an old Motorola AMPS car phone.
>> A Motorola AMPS/TDMA car phone.
>> A nokia AMPS bag phone.
I use a Motorola 3W bagphone, too. Works great in SC in many places
where the toyphones are just DEAD MEAT.
>>
>> I have them set up with cingular prepaid because that is the only way to
>> get them running around here.
>> If it wasn't for the bag phones around here, you might as well say that we
>> don't have cellular service.
This is true of most mountainous rural areas without major interstate
corridors the companies cover. It's not economically feasible for
them to provide cellular service to the country. That's not what it
was designed for and even, now, less than its current, low powered,
very limited range designs.....It just takes too much equipment outlay
to make it work in the boonies for so little revenue.
Unfortunately, the govt bureaucrats don't FORCE them to all use the
SAME modulation schemes (like your new digital TV will) and FORCE them
to SHARE resources to provide coverage for all consumers. I'm
convinced someone is being PAID under the table....as usual. FCC
doesn't seem to give a damn about the consumer of cellular.
>>
>> I wish that the cellular companies would pull there head out of the ground
>> and
>> allow people to set up old AMPS phones.
>> I wish the cellular companies would get the AMPS coverage solid enough for
>> the people around here to actually use those dinky small phones that they
>> are pushing now
>> before they worry about discontinuing the AMPS system and putting in wacko
>> digital systems
>> that will probably have worse coverage.
>> When we are stuck in two feet of snow on some back road 10 miles from no
>> where,
>> We don't care about what fancy features the phone has, we just want the dang
>> thing to work.
Boy, that's going to light up the Verizon newsgroup. I'm under
constant attack for my views on the toyphone-revenue fiasco....Put
your Nomex flame suit on....(c;
>>
>> If they want to set up new digital systems, then fine!!! Just don't force it
>> down are throat.
>>
>> The AMPS coverage they just put in will be the backbone of the cellular
>> system around
>> here for the next 10 years at least.
>> It they switch it to some wacko mode system and phase out AMPS then we will
>> basically
>> have no service again.
>>
>> I don't see how they can justify putting in a dense enough system around
>> here
>> to support the newer digital modes that are coming out.
>> And if they switch it to "800meg CDMA only" then the coverage will be
>> useless as well.
>> Only hand held phones are available for that mode and hand held phones are
>> worthless here.
>> And the new car phones are two expensive.
>>
>> People say that AMPS will be gone in five years.
>> I say that want anyone around here to use the system, it will be around a
>> lot longer than that.
>> And I have an odd feeling that AMPS will be something that just won't go
>> away.
>> It will be like the old serial and parallel port on the computers.
>> 20 years from now they will still be talking about phasing out the old AMPS
>> systems.
They're not listening. The BEAN COUNTERS don't care about common
sense and RF engineering......
>>
>> (gets off of soap box)
>> Thank you for your time! We now return you to your regular programming! :)
Now, we'll all have 20 more threads about color toyphone games and
ringtones, even if they won't make a call....(c;
Larry W4CSC and other fine old calls since 1957...
Larry W4CSC
wrote:
alt.cellular.cingular?....hee hee....(c;
N9WOS
I have got my mobile phones from the local ham fests.
I was referring to getting a new phone in my rant.
And
Most of the farmers around here have no interest in repeaters
and ham radio.
And
All the high ground around here is owned by the state park.
the only reason why the got the Kelly hill tower put in
is by buying around 15 acres of land by the stat park
and giving it to the state park in trade for an acre of land
on top the hill.
At least I know there is someone half a crazy around here as I am :P
(Holds up sign with the words "AMPS forever!")
Love, peace, and AMPS dude!
Justa Lurker
(Larry W4CSC) wrote in alt.cellular:
| On the "upgraded" money maker system, with lots of low level
| cells close together to service the 200 mw pocket phones, a
| full power bagphone sucks up a whole channel across maybe
| 6-10 cells! If this person had a 200mw toyphone, he'd suck
| up 2 cells, maybe at times, in a CDMA shared system with 6
| or more other users all being charged airtime simultaneously.
I believe we may have a new record for expressing incorrect
information. You can't compare CDMA to AMPS that simply.
AMPS phones use specific narrow channels, CDMA phones use
slots on larger channels. A CDMA channel costs 41 AMPS
channels whether one CDMA user is on it or 63.
| Just for example, let's say the 3W beast on the car antenna
| sucked up 8 minicells riding down the highway. They get one
| minute airtime per minute charged while he's on the phone.
The 3W phone is not likely to use minicells at all. Most of
them are CDMA only, relying on older cells to provide the AMPS
service to older phones. In any case, your 3w phone is built
to lower its power at the command of the controlling cell to
use just the power needed.
| Let's say we charged the AMPS guy $2/minute for airtime and
| 30c/min on CDMA in our example. 30c x 48 = $14.40/minute if
| we can run that damned beast off the channel.
Oh ye of little retained knowledge. You will NEVER get 48
CDMA phones on a single AMPS channel. You won't even get one
CDMA call through on a single AMPS channel. You need to clear
41 AMPS channels to put up a single CDMA carrier.
| If it's different my attackers will tell you how many.
When you tell lies, Larry, you can be damn sure that you will
be corrected - even if it never sinks through your thick head.
| A and B system still has AMPS as far as I know.
REQUIRED by the FCC for five more years ... permitted beyond that.
JL
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