Re: Suggestion for a <$200 Android T-Mobile phone with a recent OS

[Francis C.]

sms wrote:

> My actual recommendation is to not use T-Mobile at all if you're price
> sensitive since it's expensive and has less than stellar coverage.

I had Verizon StarTac's & PalmOS phones for years; Verizon had had
great coverage (for the time period); but those CDMA phones didn't
work when I traveled; so I switched to AT&T.

AT&T had great coverage, and they unlocked my Blackberrys for use
while traveling; so I used AT&T for years; but then they started
a more recent policy last year of forcing my kids to have a data
plan even though I never bought the phone from AT&T and I had a
data block as I don't want my kids to have a data plan.

So I switched to T-Mobile. T-Mobile has great coverage, and they
have a great pricing plan (about $65/month for four phones at
1,000 minutes and unlimited texting); but the reason I went to
T-Mobile was simply that my kids could have iPhone and Android
(ZTE Concord) phones without having a data plan (they use data
on WiFi only).

Now it's time to update the wife's Motorola RAZR V3 to something
Android 4.x because she wants to text. But, I'm jobless, so, I
want to keep expenses low. All I want to do is buy a "good"
Android phone - not the BEST Android phone.

The only problem with the kid's T-Mobil ZTE Concord (which I
bought at Target for about $80) is that it has an old Android
OS and it can't be upgraded to the newer Android OS; so that
means some apps won't work on it.

So, all I need is the cheapeast Android 4.x phone that will
work on T-Mobile's network.

[sms]

On 4/6/2013 5:16 PM, Francis C. wrote:
> sms wrote:
>
>> My actual recommendation is to not use T-Mobile at all if you're price
>> sensitive since it's expensive and has less than stellar coverage.
>
> I had Verizon StarTac's & PalmOS phones for years; Verizon had had
> great coverage (for the time period); but those CDMA phones didn't
> work when I traveled; so I switched to AT&T.

I presume that you mean foreign travel, since in the U.S. Verizon has
the best coverage, by far, of any carrier, and T-Mobile the worst. You
could not get by with T-Mobile out in the western U.S. unless you lived
in a very urban area and never went out of that area, since they have
vast areas with no coverage at all.

What I did for foreign travel was to buy an AT&T Android phone (ZTE-990)
and unlock it for foreign SIMs. But now I use a global phone (HTC
Incredible 2) so I don't have to have two phones. I have a T-Mobile SIM
card in there while in the U.S. just to check coverage in various places
we go, and it's dismal.

> So I switched to T-Mobile. T-Mobile has great coverage, and they
> have a great pricing plan (about $65/month for four phones at
> 1,000 minutes and unlimited texting); but the reason I went to
> T-Mobile was simply that my kids could have iPhone and Android
> (ZTE Concord) phones without having a data plan (they use data
> on WiFi only).

That's the attraction of Page Plus. You can have a smart phone with no
data plan, plus you get excellent coverage, something you can't get with
T-Mobile at any price. 1000 minutes and 1000 texts and 40MB of data
(250/250/10MB per phone) would be $48. But no unlimited texting, and
while for adults 250 texts per month is probably enough, for kids it's
not nearly enough.

> The only problem with the kid's T-Mobil ZTE Concord (which I
> bought at Target for about $80) is that it has an old Android
> OS and it can't be upgraded to the newer Android OS; so that
> means some apps won't work on it.

What phone apps require ICS or JB? I have not upgraded to ICS because I
don't see any upside, but I could do so.

[nob...@nada.com]

On Sun, 07 Apr 2013 15:46:43 -0700, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
wrote:

I have a Nexus 4 and my wife has an HTC Incredible. I can't recall a
single play store app that runs on Android 4.2 that doesn't run on
2.3.4 but spmetimes I find the other way around. An older app I like
that hasn't been (and may never be) updated for Jelly Bean. There are
some features that make Jelly Bean a bit nicer but nothing worth
paying a lot of money for.

[tlvp]

On Sun, 07 Apr 2013 15:46:43 -0700, sms wrote:

> But now I use a global phone (HTC
> Incredible 2) so I don't have to have two phones.

Is that what DigiCircle dubs an "HTC Droid Incredible 4G LTE"?
And, if so, should it really be costing 2.5x-3x a just plain "Incredible"?

Cheers, -- tlvp
--
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.

[sms]

On 4/7/2013 6:27 PM, tlvp wrote:
> On Sun, 07 Apr 2013 15:46:43 -0700, sms wrote:
>
>> But now I use a global phone (HTC
>> Incredible 2) so I don't have to have two phones.
>
> Is that what DigiCircle dubs an "HTC Droid Incredible 4G LTE"?
> And, if so, should it really be costing 2.5x-3x a just plain "Incredible"?

No. That phone will not work on Page Plus because it is LTE.

It's this one <http://www.phonescoop.com/phones/phone.php?p=3076>.

Got it for $100 off craigslist. It was in like new condition since the
owner had always had a case and screen protector on it, and she also
still had the original box.

They don't show up on digicircle much. I had to pay about $8 for the
unlock code to unlock the GSM side (search eBay for 261181270432). I
also rooted it so I could install an ipsec VPN app and DroidWall.

[sms]

On 4/7/2013 4:24 PM, nob...@nada.com wrote:

> I have a Nexus 4 and my wife has an HTC Incredible. I can't recall a
> single play store app that runs on Android 4.2 that doesn't run on
> 2.3.4 but spmetimes I find the other way around. An older app I like
> that hasn't been (and may never be) updated for Jelly Bean. There are
> some features that make Jelly Bean a bit nicer but nothing worth
> paying a lot of money for.

One nice thing about ICS and Jelly Bean is that they have ipsec VPN
built in support. On older versions you must root the phone and install
an app like "VPNC."

I notice that CoPilot (a GPS app with stored maps) gives street names
when running on my Nexus 7 tablet (4.1.2), but does not give street
names when running on the Incredible 2 (2.3.4). But I don't know if
that's because of the version of the Android OS or some other reason.

I could update the Incredible 2 to Jelly Bean (unofficial) and nearly
everything would work (only the built in camcorder app doesn't work but
there are camcorder apps I could install to replace the built in app).

[Francis C.]

sms wrote:

> What phone apps require ICS or JB? I have not upgraded to ICS because I
> don't see any upside, but I could do so.

Talkatone, for one, wouldn't work on the T-Mobile ZTE Concord phone.

I just don't want her to be limited by the OS since she would want Skype-
like applications while on WiFi.

[Francis C.]

nobody wrote:

> I can't recall a single play store app that runs on Android 4.2 that
> doesn't run on 2.3.4 but spmetimes I find the other way around.

I had trouble putting Talkatone and voice-to-text applications on my
kid's TMobile ZTE Concord - so that's the main reason I'm leery of the
older operating systems.

I "assumed" it was because of the operating system - which - because of
the phone, Tmobile told me can't be upgraded to a newer OS.

My desire for the latest operating system is mostly due to that, which, I
would agree, is more of a fear than hard logic though, because if the
older OS actually does run the desired applications - then that's fine.

It's just that I had problems with that older OS for some apps not
installing or not working.

[sms]

On 4/8/2013 9:06 AM, Francis C. wrote:
> nobody wrote:
>
>> I can't recall a single play store app that runs on Android 4.2 that
>> doesn't run on 2.3.4 but spmetimes I find the other way around.
>
> I had trouble putting Talkatone and voice-to-text applications on my
> kid's TMobile ZTE Concord - so that's the main reason I'm leery of the
> older operating systems.

Talkatone works just fine on my HTC Droid Incredible 2 with Android 2.3.4.

See
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.talkatone.android>
where it states that it should work on devices 2.2 or higher.

It's the slow processor that prevents Talkatone from installing from the
Play Store on the ZTE Concord which has a BCM21553 ARMv6 processor. See
<http://www.talkatone.com/android-side-apk.html> where they state: "Due
to inability provide quality experience on older devices we decided to
exclude certain old (armv5 and armv6 based devices) from marketplace
version. However, if you want to use Talkatone on older devices ON YOUR
OWN RISK, you may install this version."

You should try side-loading it to see how well it works.

Unfortunately, side-loading is becoming a requirement for more and more
apps as Google begins to lock down their Play store to exclude apps they
don't like, such as Ad Blocker Plus which they recently removed
<http://www.extremetech.com/mobile/150744-google-bans-ad-blocking-apps-from-the-play-store-sideloading-is-your-only-option>.

Google's doing a good service here by kicking these apps off the Play
Store. They're identifying the apps that you most want to install on
your device. It's not hard to figure out how to side load apps. It's not
as hard as on iOS where you have to jailbreak.

[Francis C.]

sms wrote:

> It's the slow processor that prevents Talkatone from installing from the
> Play Store on the ZTE Concord which has a BCM21553 ARMv6 processor.

Ah, I see. So it wasn't the Android that was stopping me, but it was the
slow processor!

This is good to know as I had assumed it was the android version that I
needed.

Now I realize I just need a reasonably fast processor!

Are there any good rules of thumb for the minimum processor needed?

[sms]

No. You can't go just by MHz since you could have a quad core processor
running at lower MHz that's faster than a single core or dual core
processor at higher MHz.

You really have to read reviews of the phone. A good review will have
tested apps that require a lot of processing power. Funny thing is that
Talkatone should not require a very powerful processor.

The LG Optimus L9 has a 1 GHz TI OMAP 4430 dual-core processor which
should be fine. I think that that's the best you'll find for $200.

You get a lot for that extra $100 needed for the Nexus 4. A quad core
1.5 GHz processor, much higher resolution and larger screen, and a lot
more flash memory (16GB versus less than 2GB). Factor in the cost of a
MicroSD card for the LG Optimus.

[tlvp]

On Mon, 08 Apr 2013 08:09:01 -0700, sms wrote:

... [HTC Incredible 2 vs. "HTC Droid Incredible 4G LTE"] ...

> No. That phone will not work on Page Plus because it is LTE.

Glad I asked, Steve, though I'm kinda sorry that's the answer. Thanks.

[Todd Allcock]

And factor the convenience of removable SD cards before buying a Nexus!
;)

[sms]

Google believes in the cloud! It's the same thing with their Nexus tablets.

Use one of these:
<http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/andyfei/mini-microsd-reader-for-android-smartphones-and-ta>
Actually you can use an OTG cable with a USB stick or card reader
already on many devices, but it's too kludgy. This device is at least
not so obtrusive. I actually like the idea of not opening the phone to
get the memory card.

Also
<http://www.tinydeal.com/2-in-1-otg-mobile-card-reader-sd-micro-sd-p-72405.html>
or
<http://smartphonepedia.com/micro-usb-memory-card-reader.html?campaign_id=11>.

[sms]

On 4/9/2013 7:34 AM, sms wrote:

<snip>

> Use one of these:
> <http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/andyfei/mini-microsd-reader-for-android-smartphones-and-ta>

Oops, sorry, it says explicitly that it won't work with the Nexus 4. To
get external storage working on the Nexus 4 is quite a task, see
<http://www.androidcentral.com/android-advanced-usb-otg-nexus-4>.

[Todd Allcock]

At 09 Apr 2013 07:34:44 -0700 sms wrote:
> On 4/8/2013 10:55 PM, Todd Allcock wrote:
> > At 08 Apr 2013 11:47:10 -0700 sms wrote:

> >> You get a lot for that extra $100 needed for the Nexus 4. A quad core
> >> 1.5 GHz processor, much higher resolution and larger screen, and a
lot
> >> more flash memory (16GB versus less than 2GB). Factor in the cost of
a
> >> MicroSD card for the LG Optimus.
> >
> > And factor the convenience of removable SD cards before buying a
Nexus!
> > ;)
>
> Google believes in the cloud! It's the same thing with their Nexus
tablets.

Thank god for ubiquitous WiFi, then!

> Use one of these: <http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/andyfei/mini-
> microsd-reader-for-android-smartphones-and-ta> Actually you can use an
> OTG cable with a USB stick or card reader already on many devices, but
> it's too kludgy. This device is at least not so obtrusive.

Lack of an external card slot (and removable battery, while we're at it)
for me is a deal-breaker, pure and simple. There are too many good-
enough devices out there *with* a card slot to put up with one without.

> I actually like the idea of not opening the phone to get the memory card.

Me too. That means I prefer a slot on the device not buried under the
battery, it doesn't mean I rationalize away the extreme inconvenience of
needing an external adapter or dongle to carry around everywhere.

I rarely swap cards, but I like the ability to do so if necessary. For
me, external cards mean a cheap upgrade to more storage. The 32MB card
in my Pantec Burst cost me less than $20, and upgraded the device's
included 16GB storage to 48GB. (The Burst isn't a terrible phone for the
$100 I paid on eBay, but I don't recommend it due to terrible battery life.
It was purchased as a cheap "trial balloon" to see if I want to move to
Android, our stick with old-school Windows Mobile. So far I'm still on
the fence. The Android app selection is nice, but Android is a gawd-awful
email platform, and doesn't handle Exchange as well as either old or new
Windows phones.)


> Also <http://www.tinydeal.com/2-in-1-otg-mobile-card-reader-sd-micro-sd-
p-72405.html> or <http://smartphonepedia.com/micro-usb-memory-card-
reader.html?campaign_id=11>.


Um, no thanks. ;)

[nob...@nada.com]

On Tue, 09 Apr 2013 07:34:44 -0700, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
wrote:

I have a Nexus 4 16GB and a Nexus 7 32GB. The cloud storage options
are slow and unreliable whether it's Dropbox, Skydrive, or Google
Drive.

>
>Use one of these:
><http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/andyfei/mini-microsd-reader-for-android-smartphones-and-ta>
>Actually you can use an OTG cable with a USB stick or card reader
>already on many devices, but it's too kludgy. This device is at least
>not so obtrusive. I actually like the idea of not opening the phone to
>get the memory card.

Having just been through this, the Nexus 4 doesn't put out enough
power on the USB port to run an OTG device, and getting it to it is
far more trouble than it's worth. You'd have to carry too much with
you.

But by checking the storage use on a regular basis, I find that using
more than 5-6GB happens almost never, and I'm not trying to conserve
space. 8GB should be enough unless you are loading music or video on
the device. From past experience, I think having enough active RAM is
more important.

[Francis C.]

nobody wrote:

> more than 5-6GB happens almost never, and I'm not trying to conserve

> I think having enough active RAM is more important.

What are some basic figures for minimum RAM & storage nowadays?
(Assuming adults, who do not store much on the phone.)

[tlvp]

On Tue, 09 Apr 2013 07:34:44 -0700, sms wrote:

> ... Use one of these:
> <http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/andyfei/mini-microsd-reader-for-android-smartphones-and-ta>

I'd like to ask them "Will it work on a BB PlayBook?" but I don't want to
be forced to join FB in order to do so. Are you in position to ask for me?

> Actually you can use an OTG cable ...

'Zat mean something like NewEgg's "Micro USB Host Mode Otg Cable Compatible
With Samsung© Galaxy S2 Hercules T989 T-Mobile ",

<http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA0PG07J7489>?

Again, should that work on a BB PlayBook? TIA ; and cheers, -- tlvp

[nob...@nada.com]

On Tue, 9 Apr 2013 17:19:30 +0000 (UTC), "Francis C." <f...@fc.com>
wrote:

I had a phone with 512KB of system RAM, and it was always running out
and slowing down. Even 768KB should do OK for most people. Most newer
phones have 1-2GB. As for storage, 4-8GB internal should be plenty if
carrying around lots of video or photos or music. What's important is
that there is enough space to store apps. On some phones you can store
apps on a microsd card but don't count on it. Most can't. The scards
are good for the bigger media files.

There is no science to this. It depnds on what exactly you want to do.
The opinions above are simply my experience.

[M.L.]

>>Use one of these:
>><http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/andyfei/mini-microsd-reader-for-android-smartphones-and-ta>
>>Actually you can use an OTG cable with a USB stick or card reader
>>already on many devices, but it's too kludgy. This device is at least
>>not so obtrusive. I actually like the idea of not opening the phone to
>>get the memory card.
>
>Having just been through this, the Nexus 4 doesn't put out enough
>power on the USB port to run an OTG device, and getting it to it is
>far more trouble than it's worth. You'd have to carry too much with
>you.

Isn't OTG technology only supported by Gingerbread or higher?

[nob...@nada.com]

The Nexus 4 is higher than Gingerbread. The issue isn't the Android
version alone. The port has to supply enough power for the device.

[Paul Miner]

On Tue, 09 Apr 2013 09:40:11 -0600, Todd Allcock <elecc...@AnoOspamL.com>
wrote:

>[Pantech Burst] was purchased as a cheap "trial balloon" to see if I want to move to

>Android, our stick with old-school Windows Mobile. So far I'm still on
>the fence. The Android app selection is nice, but Android is a gawd-awful
>email platform, and doesn't handle Exchange as well as either old or new
>Windows phones.)

How much of that is the fault of the OS versus the email apps that you've
tried?

For me, I'm only using GMail so far and dealing with it OK, (using the GMail
app that came on my phone). I haven't needed to use any other email apps
yet, nor any non-GMail accounts, so my experience is very limited.

--
Paul Miner

[Todd Allcock]

At 10 Apr 2013 22:06:56 -0500 Paul Miner wrote:
> On Tue, 09 Apr 2013 09:40:11 -0600, Todd Allcock
<elecc...@AnoOspamL.com>
> wrote:
>
> >[Pantech Burst] was purchased as a cheap "trial balloon" to see if I
want to move to
> >Android, our stick with old-school Windows Mobile. So far I'm still on
> >the fence. The Android app selection is nice, but Android is a gawd-
awful
> >email platform, and doesn't handle Exchange as well as either old or
new
> >Windows phones.)
>
> How much of that is the fault of the OS versus the email apps that
you've
> tried?

I'm blaming the OS for the native (included with Android) apps. (I
realize technically that the apps aren't really part of the OS itself,
but like with IE or Live Mail in Windows, I tend to consider any app
included with an OS as part of that OS.)


I've tried a few third-party email apps. K9 seems to be the best so far,
but it lacks a few niceties like the red number on the icon the stock
mail app uses to show unread mail. At least K9 polls IMAP folders in the
background- the native app only fetches the inbox in the background.

The "native" email app is important, however, because it's the one that
links an Exchange account to the device's contacts and calendar apps,
which sort of forces you to use it. (I keep my contacts and calendar in a
Microsoft Exchange account, not Gmail.)

> For me, I'm only using GMail so far and dealing with it OK, (using the
GMail
> app that came on my phone). I haven't needed to use any other email apps
> yet, nor any non-GMail accounts, so my experience is very limited.

The Gmail app is quite good. If I used Gmail as my main email address
I'd have a lot less to complain about where Android was concerned.

[tlvp]

On Tue, 09 Apr 2013 09:40:11 -0600, Todd Allcock wrote:

> There are too many good-
> enough devices out there *with* a card slot to put up with one without.

Agreed. I'm coming around to the belief that I should have let *that*
principle steer me safely away from the RIM BB PlayBook. Cheers, -- tlvp

[Paul Miner]

On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 23:46:18 -0600, Todd Allcock <elecc...@AnoOspamL.com>

wrote:

>At 10 Apr 2013 22:06:56 -0500 Paul Miner wrote:
>> On Tue, 09 Apr 2013 09:40:11 -0600, Todd Allcock
><elecc...@AnoOspamL.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >[Pantech Burst] was purchased as a cheap "trial balloon" to see if I
>want to move to
>> >Android, our stick with old-school Windows Mobile. So far I'm still on
>> >the fence. The Android app selection is nice, but Android is a gawd-
>awful
>> >email platform, and doesn't handle Exchange as well as either old or
>new
>> >Windows phones.)
>>
>> How much of that is the fault of the OS versus the email apps that
>you've
>> tried?
>
>I'm blaming the OS for the native (included with Android) apps. (I
>realize technically that the apps aren't really part of the OS itself,
>but like with IE or Live Mail in Windows, I tend to consider any app
>included with an OS as part of that OS.)

I see where you're coming from, thanks.

>I've tried a few third-party email apps. K9 seems to be the best so far,
>but it lacks a few niceties like the red number on the icon the stock
>mail app uses to show unread mail. At least K9 polls IMAP folders in the
>background- the native app only fetches the inbox in the background.

I'm pretty sloppy in that most of my email stays in the inbox forever. On my
desktop, where I use Outlook 2010, my Inbox has over 8000 items. So for me,
it would probably be ok to just poll the inbox. On my phone, the situation
is much younger but looks like it will grow up to be the same. I keep saying
I'll work on it.

>The "native" email app is important, however, because it's the one that
>links an Exchange account to the device's contacts and calendar apps,
>which sort of forces you to use it. (I keep my contacts and calendar in a
>Microsoft Exchange account, not Gmail.)

I don't currently do any calendar or contact sync between my mobile and
anything else.

>> For me, I'm only using GMail so far and dealing with it OK, (using the
>GMail
>> app that came on my phone). I haven't needed to use any other email apps
>> yet, nor any non-GMail accounts, so my experience is very limited.
>
>The Gmail app is quite good. If I used Gmail as my main email address
>I'd have a lot less to complain about where Android was concerned.

I keep telling myself that I'm not happy with GMail's version of IMAP, where
everything exists in a single folder and only appears to be in other folders
because of tags or labels, etc. With my lack of organization, though, I
guess it really doesn't matter.

Thanks for the feedback.

--
Paul Miner