CDRWIN, PIRACY, AND WAREZ...
It has come to my attention that many people are not interested in
doing anything about software piracy on the Internet. While I have
received many Email messages supporting my stance against piracy, I
have also received just as many messages against it.
Since it is quite obvious that the average Internet user would rather
believe the pack of lies being spread by the software pirates instead
of believing a legitimate developer like myself, I have released a new
version of the software...
CDRWIN version 3.4B is now available from our web page... It contains
absolutely no "malicious protection" against piracy. All copies of
V3.4A have been deleted.
Please feel free to download it from our FTP site and distribute it to
all of your friends. I'll gladly pay all of the download fees...
ftp://ftp.cdarchive.com/pub/goldenhawk/download/cdr34b-e.exe
There isn't even a password protecting it from being downloaded. Maybe
somebody will develop a new pirate key generator and distribute it all
over the world, so everybody else has join in on the fun. It is very
clear from the Email that I have received over the last two days, that
I have no right to stop you from doing anything... Heck, why don't you
put the software on a floppy and sell it for $20 a copy (like a number
of pirate sites already do). You deserve to make a little money from
your efforts too. But wait, don't stop there... How about ordering our
software with a stolen credit card number (which happens many times
every month) and then distribute the unlock keys all over the net. If
there is anything else that I can do to help you distribute illegal
copies of our software, then please feel free to contact me...
I am *truly* disappointed in the number of people (including other
software developers) who are not willing to take a stand against the
WAREZ sites and who actually defend the pirates. The Internet piracy
rate is completely out of control and unfortunately there are currently
no laws that protect developers from this kind of fraud.
When all software distribution moves to the Internet (which it will
when high-speed fiberoptic connections because commonplace in the
future), the big developers like Microsoft and Sony are going to come
down hard on the pirates and WAREZ. These big companies are not going
to allow the Internet to become a "candy store" where software can be
stolen with the push of a button from the comfort of your home. If you
think that all of these "bits" are free, then try developing a really
good software product yourself and see how much money and time you have
to invest in it.
I would like to refute some of the lies that are being spread about
CDRWIN and myself personally...
- I have seen many postings calling me "nutty" and "hostile". This
couldn't be further from the truth. If you talk to most of my
customers (who were the only ones defending me in the newsgroups),
you will find that I fully support and stand by my products. You won't
find many software companies where the developer answers the phone
and handles tech support questions, but I do...
- There have been many postings telling potential customers that they
will screw up their systems if they make a mistake when entering their
unlock codes... THIS IS A COMPLETE LIE!! Find me a customer who this
has happened to and I'll send you $1000.
- No customer has ever been harmed by any of our anti-piracy schemes in
the 3 years that we have been selling the software. The only people
whining are the pirates who think they can get everything for free and
then spread lies when they don't get their way.
All I ask is that you take the negative comments about CDRWIN with a
grain of salt... In 90% of the cases, I think you'll find that a
software pirate is on the other end of the comments. Please take the
time to ask the person if they are a legitimate customer or just
somebody who's upset because we put a dent into their illegal supply
of free software.
As far as I'm concerned, this battle with the pirates and WAREZ is over
and I have no interest in trying to defeat them in the future. I'm not
about to lose everything that I have worked so hard for just to get
revenge on a bunch of low-lifes... This is obviously what the Internet
community wants, so lets hope you like what you've wished for...
Please feel free to call me at 603-429-1027 to discuss any concerns
that you have about CDRWIN, Golden Hawk Technology, or myself.
One final note... If anybody is interested in reading the best article
(in my opinion) ever written about piracy and copyright infringement,
then please see the February 1998 issue of Playboy (page 46). You will
see quotes from Internet pirates that are very similar to what has been
posted in these newsgroups about CDRWIN. The opening paragraph reads...
"We're used to being attacked by anti-sex zealots and religious nuts.
Now there's a new breed of moron sending us hate mail...".
Sincerely,
Jeff Arnold
Golden Hawk Technology
P.S. This is not a joke... all malicious protection has been removed
from our software. The pirates and WAREZ have won... I hope you can all
sleep better now knowing that's the kind of Internet you want for the
future.
Oh cry me a river. Everyone here has said time and again what to do,
you already know how the key jen works, you know how to defeat it, why
don't you just make the program unusable if this keyjen is used? The
only logical reason for your actions can be petty revenge. I can see no
other motivation, because I can see no added protection or increase in
sales that could be generated by doing more than making the program
unusable, i.e. making a mess of a drive. I bet you thought you were
pretty clever with that little trick, but doing something that's illegal
makes you no better than those who would pirate your software.
>
> P.S. This is not a joke... all malicious protection has been removed
> from our software. The pirates and WAREZ have won... I hope you can all
> sleep better now knowing that's the kind of Internet you want for the
> future.
Boo hoo, if you want to suck on sour grapes go ahead, the smart money
would be on the guy who still uses his knowledge of how this keygen
works and defeats it by less hostile means.
--
___________________________________________
Chris Phillipo - webm...@tread.pair.com.
TREAD Online! Cycle Magazine - Authoring & Image Scanning.
http://tread.pair.com/ - http://tread.pair.com/treadpub/.
Has anyone d/led this new version yet?? It is the registered copy or do
you still need a key for it to unlock?
I think Jeff is frustrated, not stupid :)
>Chris Phillipo wrote:
>>
>> > I am *truly* disappointed in the number of people (including other
>> > software developers) who are not willing to take a stand against the
>> > WAREZ sites and who actually defend the pirates. The Internet piracy
>> > rate is completely out of control and unfortunately there are currently
>> > no laws that protect developers from this kind of fraud.
>
>Has anyone d/led this new version yet?? It is the registered copy or do
>you still need a key for it to unlock?
You still need a key.
Sorry I cant give it to you.
That would be PIRACY.<G>
>March 17, 1998
>CDRWIN, PIRACY, AND WAREZ...
>It has come to my attention that many people are not interested in
>doing anything about software piracy on the Internet. While I have
>received many Email messages supporting my stance against piracy, I
>have also received just as many messages against it.
Nothing can be done. It is too well supported by those who can do
against it.
>Since it is quite obvious that the average Internet user would rather
>believe the pack of lies being spread by the software pirates instead
>of believing a legitimate developer like myself, I have released a new
>version of the software...
I suppose this pack of lies goes something like "sales of ___ greatly
benefit from piracy."
>CDRWIN version 3.4B is now available from our web page... It contains
>absolutely no "malicious protection" against piracy. All copies of
>V3.4A have been deleted.
Good, at least you have a way out when the lawyers come. That wasn't
malicious code like I posted before, that was a bug and I fixed it.
>There isn't even a password protecting it from being downloaded. Maybe
>somebody will develop a new pirate key generator and distribute it all
>over the world, so everybody else has join in on the fun. It is very
This happens anyways. You can make it hard but you can't stop it.
>I have no right to stop you from doing anything...
Yes you do and there's ways to do it that aren't illegal by the Laws
of the State of New Hampshire and the United States of America.
>How about ordering our
>software with a stolen credit card number (which happens many times
>every month)
That's illegal and should be reported. It has nothing to do with
software piracy. Perhaps your sales method of codes needs to be
updated. Maybe the web site hands them out too easy. Illegal codes can
be written into future versions so they don't work.
>and then distribute the unlock keys all over the net.
Illegaly distributed keys can be written out too.
>I am *truly* disappointed in the number of people (including other
>software developers) who are not willing to take a stand against the
>WAREZ sites and who actually defend the pirates.
Your stance is illegal. Society has an interest in preventing time
bombs. Certain kinds of retarded and psychotic people are time bombs
to themselves and others and that's why they end up in an asylum. Now,
we have CDRWIN34a that is a time bomb. Not only that, it can also be a
tool in the wrong hands. I can destroy computer systems simply by
installing that software and I may never get blamed for it. Jeeves
gets fired and I get the promotion. We have enough time bombs in our
computer society without decent authors making them.
>The Internet piracy
>rate is completely out of control and unfortunately there are currently
>no laws that protect developers from this kind of fraud.
Someday when laws can be found, they will be implemented. Laws have to
mightwork before they are considered. The few internet laws that have
showed up I've read the commentary and snippits and they are simply
impossible.
>- I have seen many postings calling me "nutty" and "hostile". This
Your postings *are* nutty and hostile and I'll add psychotic and
anarchist so you ain't no better than the pirates. The difference
between you and the rest of us psychotics lurking in the free world is
that we don't damage enough to get the policeman to show up. In fact,
I don't believe that you really wrote them and I refuse to check it
out given the possibility my hopes will be dashed.
>couldn't be further from the truth. If you talk to most of my
>customers (who were the only ones defending me in the newsgroups),
Some legal customers beat you up too including one who claims to have
a legal key and his HD was trashed too. The few people who supported
you didn't seem to have a clear grasp of the law. Not only is the
specific law clear on this, the general purpose of law is also quite
clear.
>you will find that I fully support and stand by my products. You won't
>find many software companies where the developer answers the phone
>and handles tech support questions, but I do...
Your tech support and products are very fine. However, what you found
is that there are some unacceptable practices in software creation.
Endangering an unimaginable number of computers in unexpected places
is something you take to your grave, not to the market.
I think you'll find that with your update, this will soon pass. The
number of burnt customers will be relatively few. What you must
remember is that the "end justifies the means" NOT!
>- No customer has ever been harmed by any of our anti-piracy schemes in
>the 3 years that we have been selling the software. The only people
>whining are the pirates who think they can get everything for free and
>then spread lies when they don't get their way.
I think you will find that pirates spread cracks when the form of
protection is too obtrusive. Learning the balance between free use
prevention and providing good service to the freeloaders is very
tricky.
>All I ask is that you take the negative comments about CDRWIN with a
>grain of salt... In 90% of the cases, I think you'll find that a
>software pirate is on the other end of the comments. Please take the
>time to ask the person if they are a legitimate customer or just
>somebody who's upset because we put a dent into their illegal supply
>of free software.
But if they were illegal would they respond, "Oh yes, I wrote that but
I am really a pirate! I just wanted to get his goat and make it sound
convincing! Don't tell anyone!"
>As far as I'm concerned, this battle with the pirates and WAREZ is over
That's a good way to be. You shouldn't view it as a battle with swords
but a battle of wits.
>and I have no interest in trying to defeat them in the future.
Here again, you are wrong. Defeating the pirates isn't so hard. I'll
e-mail some hints that will accomplish what you were trying to do but
not do mean things to unsuspecting users. The secret is to be annoying
but not destructive.
>Please feel free to call me at 603-429-1027 to discuss any concerns
>that you have about CDRWIN, Golden Hawk Technology, or myself.
No, someday when the support shows for my DAO compatible Memorex and I
register, I will consider calling that number. For now, I will not
waste your time with your family with petty comments. AFAIam
concerned, I have to contribute money before I can use your phone.
>One final note... If anybody is interested in reading the best article
>(in my opinion) ever written about piracy and copyright infringement,
>then please see the February 1998 issue of Playboy (page 46). You will
It's too bad that Playboy writes such good articles but puts them with
smut so most decent folks won't have them around. "I don't look at the
pictures, I read the articles." We need a Playboy-PG13
>all malicious protection has been removed
>from our software.
A very wise choice. MDOP is not a good thing to have attached to your
software.
>The pirates and WAREZ have won...
Not. You stumbled on the secret I knew about long ago but you failed
to do the right thing about it. Instead, MDOP seemed to be your
preferred choice.
You filled your response with cynacism. Again, this is not the mark of
a professional. Try to avoid this writing unless you want to write
fiction or anti-government spam.
severachATja...@m.com
<snip>
>
> P.S. This is not a joke... all malicious protection has been removed
> from our software. The pirates and WAREZ have won... I hope you can all
> sleep better now knowing that's the kind of Internet you want for the
> future.
Not a joke, no, just the same childish try to fuck people.
What you want to say is YOU have won, at least you think so.
I for myself really can sleep better because I'll do the
right thing and hope many others will do the same:
Stay away from this piece of crap - use Nero, or any other
really clean software.
Michael
>>and I have no interest in trying to defeat them in the future.
>Here again, you are wrong. Defeating the pirates isn't so hard. I'll
>e-mail some hints that will accomplish what you were trying to do but
>not do mean things to unsuspecting users. The secret is to be annoying
>but not destructive.
The point is though that the more difficult a program is to crack -
the more the eager youngish crackers are to show their skill in
cracking it.
Jeff Arnold wrote in message
<350F4...@mainstream.net>...
>March 17, 1998
>(in my opinion) ever written about piracy and copyright infringement,
>then please see the February 1998 issue of Playboy (page 46). You will
>
>Jeff Arnold
>Golden Hawk Technology
>
>
.
[snip]
# All copies of V3.4A have been deleted.
Yeah, right...
=Current directory is /pub/goldenhawk/download
=
=
=Welcome
=
=Up to higher level directory
= cdr34a-a.exe 644 Kb Mon Mar 09
19:44:00 1998 Binary Executable
= cdr34b-e.exe 465 Kb Wed Mar 18
06:42:00 1998 Binary Executable
= cdr34b-g.exe 458 Kb Wed Mar 18
06:42:00 1998 Binary Executable
= dao16v34.zip 961 Kb Wed Mar 18
06:42:00 1998 WinZip File
= dao32v34.zip 732 Kb Wed Mar 18
06:42:00 1998 WinZip File
= dem34b-e.exe 465 Kb Wed Mar 18
06:42:00 1998 Binary Executable
[snip]
The simple fact that malicious code was there to start with makes the
product
and all future versions ...worthless..
Even if all the comments against CDRWIN were wrong...
His own comments says enough...
Malicious code often can accidently (unintentionally) crossover and affect
the valid user ......
That reason alone makes CDRWIN a stay-away product....
Even if no valid user has ever been hit .... the chance is still there...
:>
:>P.S. This is not a joke... all malicious protection has been removed
:
Jerry Springer?
Oprah?-forget her, she doesn't like meat.....hehe
The DEMON
aka
TCP
--
__
/B/\
/L/ D\
/A/ /\E\
/C/ /\ \M\
/K/_/__\ \0\
/________\ \N\
\___________\/
A message said "Requires Windows 95 or better", so I installed LINUX.
On Wed, 18 Mar 1998 15:25:18 -0800, "Lawrence Dillard"
<LDILLARD/ITD/Harland@Harland> wrote:
>I dont remember anything about software piracy in Playboy, but then again I
>don't buy it for the articles...
>
>
>
>Jeff Arnold wrote in message
><350F4...@mainstream.net>...
>>March 17, 1998
>
>>(in my opinion) ever written about piracy and copyright infringement,
>>then please see the February 1998 issue of Playboy (page 46). You will
>>
>>Jeff Arnold
>>Golden Hawk Technology
>>
>>
>.
>
I tried to scan the Playboy article for everyone here to read, but
after I scanned it, all the girlie pictures in the magazine filled up
with text. Damn! how'd you do that Jeff! ;)
Lighten up everybody, but try for a sec to put yourself in Jeff's
shoes. We all would respond differently, but Jeff put his talents in
hyperdrive, and I believe he's trying to correct his possible PR
mis-judgement. I, for one, try to encourage software developers
by purchasing their products if it's good, and Jeff's software is one
I have purchased. He's got the disabled demo, but he also has the no
question return policy:
"We offer a 30-day money back guarantee (no questions asked) on all
of our products. . ."
Sorry Jeff I copied that from your web page. ;)
<looking at my HD light for massive activity>
so if you want to "try" it, buy it. If you don't like it, you'll get
your money back. nuff said.
GORT
Clean out the "spamicide" from my address to contact me via E-mail
>Jeff Arnold wrote:
>>
>>snip
>>
>> CDRWIN version 3.4B is now available from our web page... It contains
>> absolutely no "malicious protection" against piracy.
>>
>You forgot to say one important thing:
>ALL keygenerators floating around are disabled now in this version.
>As in former times you'll get a fake-registration and all CDs you'll
>try to burn will be coasters (after 20-30% the CD will be ejected).
>
good try making a key generator that works
><snip>
>>
>> P.S. This is not a joke... all malicious protection has been removed
>> from our software. The pirates and WAREZ have won... I hope you can all
>> sleep better now knowing that's the kind of Internet you want for the
>> future.
>
>Not a joke, no, just the same childish try to fuck people.
>What you want to say is YOU have won, at least you think so.
>I for myself really can sleep better because I'll do the
>right thing and hope many others will do the same:
>Stay away from this piece of crap - use Nero, or any other
>really clean software.
>
never had a problem with my regestered version of cdrwin and if it
realy is a peice of crap why all the bullsh* post about it. I find it
realy funny that people who are breaking the law and trying to steal
software and are suposed to be elite are crying like a bunch of
babys. If you guys are that good, bust his code and post the key
generator that works. with the hate thats been posted if you could you
would, so stop crying and take your lumps.
>Michael
to reply remove nospam from email
For companies like Sony and Columbia and Microsoft, the "millions lost" to
software piracy in reality is quite small. The reason is, most of those who
do copy PSX games, Office 98, and Photoshop are NOT potential customers --
your typical warez "kids" are NOT execs pulling in 100k a year who can throw
down $500 for a program, and no real dollars are being lost. It's a unique
situation becuase intellectual properties are a very new issue. It's not
something quantifiable like a television or bar of gold, becuase there's no
cost degredation to the production company. 12 year old Billy who's using
Photoshop to electronicly undress a picture of Sandra Bullock is not a
customer, and would have never been one. And him using the software does
nothing to Adobe. In fact, it helps them...
wawawawhat?!?!? That's right. It helps it become a standard. The more
users a software has, either regged or "stolen", is great for a company
becuase standards develop, as does demand. Word of mouth also makes an
impression that millions in advertising could never achieve -- and it's for
free.
I'll go so far as to say that the losses incurred from potential customers
whom actually opted to use a pirated copy are FAR LESS than the advantage of
additional 1000's of users working paths for the comanies. It's applies for
everyone.
And you know what, the big boys know this, and that's why they don't do
anything about it. Microsoft knows, and they don't care -- becuase they're
smart. The SPA is a great front for them letting you know that "this is
bad", but it's a proverbial DARE program in it's lack of enforcement and
ability. They know it doesn't work, and that's exactly what it's there for.
To show of a failing effort, and to show a little human victim in the
Microsoft machine.
But smaller programs arn't like that. When you find a great shareware
program, in which you really could and would buy if the link to a crack
wern't next to it, you are costing the author money. And were not talking
about moguls here either -- we're talking hard working individuals who have
provided something even the big boys didn't. And they deserve to be
rewarded for their efforts.
>March 17, 1998
>
>
>CDRWIN, PIRACY, AND WAREZ...
>
>
-- snips --
ROTFL!!! I owned a Commodore 64 and Amiga for years and I can assure
you, without question, that COMMODORE killed them! Gawd! That company
had the absolute worst marketing department on the planet earth. They
came up with a great piece of hardware in the Amiga, and a wonderful OS
that was so buggy you couldn't work for an hour without a crash. They
acted as if popular media and software support wasn't important to the
success of their machine. And then, just when it seemed as if it might
catch on, they let the hardware become obsolete as run-of-the-mill PCs
and Macs easily outperformed them in their strong suits.
The pirates killed them! Ha hahahahha....
Jamie
Jeff's software costs $69, our Easy CD Creator costs $99. I don't think you can
call those prices deterrents to buying, especially considering that your
hypothetical kid went out and bought a CD recorder, and presumably isn't
stealing the blanks he's recording to. (I dunno, maybe he's a shoplifter, too.)
For the same reason, almost every copy of our software that is used *would* be
bought if there was no other way to get it, because you need some sort of
software to use the CD recorder *at all*. You can live without naked pictures of
Sandra Bullock, but presumably if you bought a recorder, you're going to use it
one way or the other.
> It's a unique
> situation becuase intellectual properties are a very new issue.
Not that new. When I worked as a secretary in Washington in 1986, we had only
one copy of WordPerfect between about 20 workstations, as I discovered when I
went looking for a manual. At the time I honestly did not know that that was
illegal. But I think that by now most people are well aware of what software
piracy means, especially anyone who's computer-savvy enough to be in these
newsgroups in the first place.
> And you know what, the big boys know this, and that's why they don't do
> anything about it. Microsoft knows, and they don't care -- becuase they're
> smart.
A couple of years ago Microsoft cared enough to have a piracy police squad
headed by a woman who was the most hated person in the pirate groups -- because
she succeeded in busting pirates. I doubt that they've stopped all action on the
issue since then.
> But smaller programs arn't like that. When you find a great shareware
> program, in which you really could and would buy if the link to a crack
> wern't next to it, you are costing the author money. And were not talking
> about moguls here either -- we're talking hard working individuals who have
> provided something even the big boys didn't. And they deserve to be
> rewarded for their efforts.
I fully agree. But please keep in mind that piracy hurts the "big boys," too.
And those costs, one way or another, cannot fail to get back to you, the
consumer.
--
Best regards, Deirdre' Straughan
"Largo al factotum del CD-R"
Adaptec Software Products Group
Got a question about CD-R? http://www.adaptec.com/cdrec
Get help from other users through the Adaptec CD-R list.
http://listserv.adaptec.com/
I quote off the web page of goldenhawk
Will your software copy PlayStation discs?
You can't play a CD-R copy by just dropping it into the
Playstation. You have to get a special "chip"
installed inside your console that defeats the copy protection
scheme (we do not do this modification).
Even though our software is capable of copying many game discs
What the fuck is this guy on? maybe Sony should have a word with him, how
would he like it if his playstation suddenly blew up with a CDR copy in
side. although the odds of it happening with a legit copy are 1:270 trillion
(from the thread above)
Quentyn
Paul Creamer wrote:
> This portion says it all...
>
> The simple fact that malicious code was there to start with makes the
> product
> and all future versions ...worthless..
>
> Even if all the comments against CDRWIN were wrong...
> His own comments says enough...
>
> Malicious code often can accidently (unintentionally) crossover and affect
> the valid user ......
>
> That reason alone makes CDRWIN a stay-away product....
> Even if no valid user has ever been hit .... the chance is still there...
>
> :>
> :>P.S. This is not a joke... all malicious protection has been removed
> :
>There's no point in arguing the piracy issue from a stationary point,
>becuase it simply does not apply everywhere. I believe that in CDRWIN's
>arena, the piracy of the software IS a crime becuase the majority of users
>ARE potential customers. As soon as I get my CDR, the first thing I am
>doing is getting a regged copy of CDRWIN -- for $20, it's saving $1000's on
>software and other intellectual properties. And it's not a switchstance of
>advocacy...
>
That's right. Because Mr. Arnold is himself a former (?) pirate, and
wired into that market with his software solution for copying
expensive CD's that mainstream software couldn't duplicate.
>For companies like Sony and Columbia and Microsoft, the "millions lost" to
>software piracy in reality is quite small. The reason is, most of those who
>do copy PSX games, Office 98, and Photoshop are NOT potential customers --
>your typical warez "kids" are NOT execs pulling in 100k a year who can throw
>down $500 for a program, and no real dollars are being lost. It's a unique
>situation becuase intellectual properties are a very new issue. It's not
>something quantifiable like a television or bar of gold, becuase there's no
>cost degredation to the production company. 12 year old Billy who's using
>Photoshop to electronicly undress a picture of Sandra Bullock is not a
>customer, and would have never been one. And him using the software does
>nothing to Adobe. In fact, it helps them...
>
>wawawawhat?!?!? That's right. It helps it become a standard. The more
>users a software has, either regged or "stolen", is great for a company
>becuase standards develop, as does demand. Word of mouth also makes an
>impression that millions in advertising could never achieve -- and it's for
>free.
>I'll go so far as to say that the losses incurred from potential customers
>whom actually opted to use a pirated copy are FAR LESS than the advantage of
>additional 1000's of users working paths for the comanies. It's applies for
>everyone.
>
My goodness, your "decent logic" is so cogent and lacking in sweeping
generalizations and characterizations -- NOT! If you were a
shareholder of MS or Sony stock, you'd think twice before ignoring an
estimated billion dollars in lost revenue from piracy. Your cartoonish
analogy of the pimply kid using costly software to promote the
ultimate sales of said software is the fuzziest logic I've seen on the
subject.
>
>And you know what, the big boys know this, and that's why they don't do
>anything about it. Microsoft knows, and they don't care -- becuase they're
>smart. The SPA is a great front for them letting you know that "this is
>bad", but it's a proverbial DARE program in it's lack of enforcement and
>ability. They know it doesn't work, and that's exactly what it's there for.
>To show of a failing effort, and to show a little human victim in the
>Microsoft machine.
>
Ah, yet another conspiracy theory about the "big (bad) boys" and their
half-hearted efforts to curb piracy. Too bad you aren't aware of the
1288 MS-instigated piracy court cases pending (ref: Feb. 18 issue of
Software Reseller News). You're as well-informed as your are
"logical"...
>
>But smaller programs arn't like that. When you find a great shareware
>program, in which you really could and would buy if the link to a crack
>wern't next to it, you are costing the author money. And were not talking
>about moguls here either -- we're talking hard working individuals who have
>provided something even the big boys didn't. And they deserve to be
>rewarded for their efforts.
>
Duh! Of course small shareware guys need financial support. And if you
look at the ones who made it big-time (McAfee, Intuit, Quarterdeck,
Jasc......the list reads like a software Who's-Who), they all began as
shareware publishers whose software was (still is) cracked and offered
on the 'net and BBS sites every time a new version would pop up. But
did that put them out of business, Mr. Logic? Shit, wish I had a small
fraction of their profits. If there was ever a case made for
propagating and promoting a product, extensive distribution -- legal
or otherwise -- has proven to serve these companies very well.
Especially in the case of Mr. Arnold, whose product's reputation was
enhanced and promoted none other than the warez crowd who were his
primary target audience. His publicly neurotic and antagonistic
relationship with them only serves to scare away potential paying
customers.
Lastly, Mr. Decent Logic, the whole issue that's filled the newsgroups
with this interminable thread is not the morality of pirating. That's
a non-issue which is obvious to even the lowest warez hacker. The
issue is Arnold's own admission to seeding his program with a virus
and/or trojan in order to thwart pirates (something that's been, my
estimate, less than 3% effective). If I were the least bit interested
in the alleged benefits of his software, I wouldn't want a malicious
time-bomb running on my computer -- regardless of his statistical
assurances to the contrary. And I also wouldn't want to encourage the
recklessness of his practices. If his product is so good, it's
inevitable, then, that we'll eventually see it bundled with CD-R units
and on the shelves of CompUSA and other retail outlets. Right?
H. James
>as a further bit to this message. Jeff arnold who is so pissed off about
>software piracy actually supports it!!!
>
>I quote off the web page of goldenhawk
>
>Will your software copy PlayStation discs?
>
> You can't play a CD-R copy by just dropping it into the
>Playstation. You have to get a special "chip"
> installed inside your console that defeats the copy protection
>scheme (we do not do this modification).
> Even though our software is capable of copying many game discs
>
>What the fuck is this guy on? maybe Sony should have a word with him, how
>would he like it if his playstation suddenly blew up with a CDR copy in
>side. although the odds of it happening with a legit copy are 1:270 trillion
>(from the thread above)
>
>Quentyn
>
>Paul Creamer wrote:
>
>> This portion says it all...
>>
Excellent point!! Which is why several people in this vast thread
pointed out what a hypocrite Mr. Arnold is. Your post is a keeper!!
H. James
>I think Jeff is frustrated, not stupid :)
Well, I'm not surprised - I would be too. He's working his ass off to
get this program working the way it is and he gets tons of emails of
misguided lamers and pirates to complain to him and bother him on his
private number about so-called "malicious" code that isn't even
malicious at all + they don't even have the right to complain about it
since they never purchased the product at all (so they shouldn't be
expecting support for it) & they're only stealing his time, money and
rest... BTW.: Malicious would be: e.g. having it format the harddisc,
mix up the FAT or something ;-)
Why bother when so many valid, paid for keys are being passed around?
You seem to be under the impressio they people here are whining that
their key generator has some how bee thwarted. I have yet to see a post
with regard to this. People, myself included, are outraged that anyone
who buys this program is put at risk because of one man's petty need for
revenge.
>ROTFL!!! I owned a Commodore 64 and Amiga for years and I can assure
>you, without question, that COMMODORE killed them! Gawd! That company
I have to join in with that comment, however it does not have that
much to do with the CDRWIN subject here. I see no benefit for a
pirate to bother a small company with low profits - who don't ask too
much for their software anyway. I think CDRWIN is worth purchasing,
and I don't see why people should be bothered with complaining so much
about the protection Jeff has implemented. I haven't seen a single
legit user here yet (although some pirates seem to have, but this
looks like a staged setup to me) complaining that cdrwin does
malicious stuff on his machine.
The flaw in this logic is that the hypothetical kid's parents bought the
CD recorder. This kid has no job and an allowance of 20 bucks a week.
He copies playstation games and/or PC games from his friends, which his
parents bought. Truly, it is hard to argue that this form of piracy
really costs the industry a lot of money. Not many of these would have
translated into actual sales in the absence of copying.
> For the same reason, almost every copy of our software that is used *would* be
> bought if there was no other way to get it, because you need some sort of
> software to use the CD recorder *at all*. You can live without naked pictures of
Many (not all) CD recorders come with a software package of some kind. I
do agree that _actual_ lost revenues to piracy are probably greater in
the case of certain types of software, such as yours, though - for now.
As time goes on, though, I expect basic CD copying/recording software
will become part of windoze 3000. But I still maintain that with some
exceptions, the billions of dollars estimated to be lost are way
inflated. Why? Estimating the number of illegal copies in existance is
far, far removed from the _actual_ number of lost sales. The logic that
(1) illegal copy = (1) lost sale is completely flawed.
In the case of very expensive application software, most of the
customers are businesses and professionals. The pirates are hacks.
These people would _never_ spend $500 for a piece of software which they
might use only occasionaly. They simply wouldn't have it, or would use
a much cheaper shareware product. As another example, many people
"pirate" software for use at home which is owned by their office. But
it's ridiculous for a software company to expect a person to actually
*pay* for their own copy when they use a licensed one at work -- both
copies would never be used at the same time. Technically it's illegal,
but technically it would also be legal to uninstall it every day before
going home and re-install it on your PC at home.
In the case of games, much of the piracy comes from kids who simply
wouldn't have the money to buy them. Their parents sure as hell
wouldn't buy them racks of $49 game progams. That's not to say this
type of piracy is without cost to society - think of the millions of
wasted education dollars! I bet average test scores would go way up if
there was no piracy of video games. ;-)
> When I worked as a secretary in Washington in 1986, we had only
> one copy of WordPerfect between about 20 workstations, as I discovered when I
> went looking for a manual. At the time I honestly did not know that that was
This is where I believe 95% of *actual* revenues are lost. Although the
absence of a manual doesn't necessarily indicate the absence of a
license. Most companies negotiate licensing agreements with software
companies which don't include manuals. Maybe not in 1986, but when we
used WordPerfect in my corporate life of old, we didn't have manuals but
were actually licensed. But that's not the point - this happens, and
these situations are *really* where the anti-piracy folks should be
focusing their efforts.
For these reasons, I believe that shutting down every "warez" channel on
earth would improve sales only slightly. By and large, those people
just aren't potential customers; and the biggest thieves won't be found
there at all.
Jamie
Sorry. I should have changed the topic to "COMMODORE, PIRACY and
WAREZ". I was responding to a ridiculous proposition that piracy killed
these machines; I was no longer talking about CDRWIN.
But back to your return to the thread, this has little to do with
whether a legitimate user has been burned. It also has little to do
with actually selling software. It has to do with revenge.
Jamie
(So what do I do?.. throw my two cents in :)
I don't own a CD-R(W) unit yet. I plan on getting one this summer. All
I have read about CDRWIN on the newsgroups points to it being a really
cool program with LOTS of good features.
However... I've invested ALOT of time and money in my system. And I
don't want to chance it getting screwed up by me making a typo or a
system glitch activating hidden coding.
No matter how infintessimal the chances are.. there "is" still a
chance. And with my luck, it would happen to me.
I understand the author's desire to protect his work, and at the same
I think people need to understand that not everyone wants to take the
chance (however slight)!
>My goodness, your "decent logic" is so cogent and lacking in sweeping
>generalizations and characterizations -- NOT!
If you were a
>shareholder of MS or Sony stock, you'd think twice before ignoring an
>estimated billion dollars in lost revenue from piracy. Your cartoonish
>analogy of the pimply kid using costly software to promote the
>ultimate sales of said software is the fuzziest logic I've seen on the
>subject.
Then quantify losses for me. That's what no one, included you can seem to
do. Sony is not suffering in the US do to piracy. In China, they are, just
like all software publishers do. But even that still exists, and if you
read how "well" they enforce the laws there, even under strong international
pressure, you would realize that there IS no problem, even in a market where
you can walk into a place as easy as you can Wal-Mart, and buy all the
latest for under $10 a disc.
Part of this is China's own intentions to prosecute, but it also represents
a lack of US pressure to really do anything.
>Ah, yet another conspiracy theory about the "big (bad) boys" and their
>half-hearted efforts to curb piracy. Too bad you aren't aware of the
>1288 MS-instigated piracy court cases pending (ref: Feb. 18 issue of
>Software Reseller News). You're as well-informed as your are
>"logical"...
Again, you fail to quantify anything. What, if anything does that mean?
And it doesn't disprove my theory, either. Prosecuting offenses will
obviously happen, but this doesn't mean that Msoft is hurting by any means.
First, this IS appropriate because the Author of CDRWIN is obviously a
pirtate -- it was born with the surname "PSXCOPY". And it is based on other
threds immediatly following his initial posting.
The game changes when you go big, becuase you get something called
DISTRIBUTION. Small authors don't have this, and must rely on a form of
download-register that is MUCH more suseptiable to piracy.
I commend him on having the balls to put some malicious code in his
software -- it's a great idea. It may not be foolproof, but it works.
I take the mockery with a grain of salt becuase you offer no counters that I
have not heard a million times before. You offer no loss in actual numbers
that can be quantified by realistic potential customers. It's not a gimmick
or a farce, it's a simple request with something that *DOES make sense. How
can it not? You don't refute this, nor do you offer any better logic to
calculate losses.
> You can live without naked pictures of
> Sandra Bullock, but presumably if you
> bought a recorder, you're going to use it
> one way or the other.
How was the vacation?
I might argue a completely different point of view: Commodore 64 and
Amiga put a number of very successful software companies on the map.
Such as Electronic Arts and Activision, off the top of my head.
And to suggest that software piracy will be responsible for the death of
Macintosh ..... ?? Where have you been, on Mars? Mac has, for years,:
1) Not licensed (except for one brief exception) their technology to be
produced by third parties
2) Subsquently a mac has traditionally cost *significantly* more than an
roughly equivalent PC
As a result, most people, except zealots, see their dollar going a lot
farther on a PC. So, now, there is a very simple reason why you don't
see much Macintosh software on the shelves. THEY HAVE LESS THAN 10% OF
THE PC MARKET!!!
Jamie
Ie; A former (as of Summer 97) longtime AMIGA owner...
Though that 25mhz 68030 AMIGA 3000 downloaded files using the same
33.6 modem ...much quicker than the PC ever could ..PC being 200mhz...
Reason: AMIGA's OS was UNIX style multiple shells ,etc....
I regularly downloaded dozens of files simultaniously.... with virtually no
degrading on CPS ..
whereas on my 200mhz machine ...after I attempt to download more than a
couple..
It almost dies many a time...and the CPS is never as good as it was on
AMIGA..
DOnt get me wrong....I needed APPLICATIONS that didnt exist .....
& that was due to going from Video developement to PROGRAMMING...
rt...@bigfoot.con wrote in message <3515b871...@news.supernews.com>...
:On Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:36:59 -0500, Jamie <ja...@treworgy.com> wrote:
:
:>David Van Dromme wrote:
:>>
:>> On Thu, 19 Mar 1998 09:17:47 -0500, Jamie <ja...@treworgy.com> wrote:
:>>
:>> >ROTFL!!! I owned a Commodore 64 and Amiga for years and I can assure
:>> >you, without question, that COMMODORE killed them! Gawd! That company
:>> I have to join in with that comment, however it does not have that
:>> much to do with the CDRWIN subject here. I see no benefit for a
:>> pirate to bother a small company with low profits - who don't ask too
:>> much for their software anyway. I think CDRWIN is worth purchasing,
:>> and I don't see why people should be bothered with complaining so much
:>> about the protection Jeff has implemented.
:
: I do agree it's worth buying IF you REALLY need it, and I do
:beleive it killed a lot of software MAKERS thats what I really meant.
:
:
: And I love the winers crying over though keys hope jeff makes
:them twice as hard to crack
:>> I haven't seen a single
:>> legit user here yet (although some pirates seem to have, but this
:>> looks like a staged setup to me) complaining that cdrwin does
:>> malicious stuff on his machine.
:EXTREMELY STAGGED !!!!
:
:>
:>Sorry. I should have changed the topic to "COMMODORE, PIRACY and
:>WAREZ". I was responding to a ridiculous proposition that piracy killed
:>these machines; I was no longer talking about CDRWIN.
:
:again I was reffreing more to the software makers than the machines
:themselves but ultimately a machine without software gets dumped for
:those WITH . IF you want keep watching the Macs those are next! tell
:me how much software you see on the store shelves for them. or how
:many companies are producing software for it versus 5 years ago?
:
:>
:>But back to your return to the thread, this has little to do with
:
Your the shithead paying good money to someone who can't deal with a
normal part of computer life such as piracy... its not only Jeff's
problem, its every programmers problem. Thats why he has no right to
deliberately code malicious code in his programs, that could harm both
'good' and 'bad' users alike. What a selfish prick, and you, all high and
mighty because you handed over the money. Its not only the hackers that
are whining, its everybody with half a brain in their head who know that
once this whole malicious code thing becomes common practice, we're all
screwed.
>
>Your the shithead paying good money to someone who can't deal with a
>normal part of computer life such as piracy... its not only Jeff's
>problem, its every programmers problem. Thats why he has no right to
>deliberately code malicious code in his programs, that could harm both
>'good' and 'bad' users alike. What a selfish prick, and you, all high and
>mighty because you handed over the money. Its not only the hackers that
>are whining, its everybody with half a brain in their head who know that
>once this whole malicious code thing becomes common practice, we're all
>screwed.
>
Lets see, I'm a shithead for being honest. Piracy seems to be a normal
part of your life not mine.Yes piracy is a problem and jeff is doing
something about it. He has raised the bar, so if you can not hack it
or crack it then buy it. As for this being a problem, even if everyone
started putting such codes in there software my money would be on the
hackers and crackers will eventualy learn to bust them. The real
point I'm making, stop crying about getting caught with your pants
down and either buy it or crack it. Also why did the developer of the
key generator post it before it was test and perfected. A rush to
fame?
>
> Then quantify losses for me. That's what no one, included you can seem to
> do. Sony is not suffering in the US do to piracy. In China, they are, just
> like all software publishers do. But even that still exists, and if you
> read how "well" they enforce the laws there, even under strong international
> pressure, you would realize that there IS no problem, even in a market where
> you can walk into a place as easy as you can Wal-Mart, and buy all the
> latest for under $10 a disc.
Actually, about $3.50 a disc (US dollars). And thats all most of
Miscro$hits (tm) software is worth.
> Part of this is China's own intentions to prosecute, but it also represents
> a lack of US pressure to really do anything.
No no no, the US has done MORE than it can. If it (once again) threatens
sanctions, China will just (once again) look to Europe for trading
partners, and the US will (once again, like with the failed US$1
billion subway contract that France ended up getting) lose out. The US
has done a lot, but as long as the US needs China more than China needs
the US, piracy will continue aboveground.
Excellent! Thanks for asking.
And it's their responsibility to know what their kid is doing with it.
> This kid has no job and an allowance of 20 bucks a week.
> He copies playstation games and/or PC games from his friends, which his
> parents bought. Truly, it is hard to argue that this form of piracy
> really costs the industry a lot of money. Not many of these would have
> translated into actual sales in the absence of copying.
It probably doesn't cost the industry a lot of money, because I am willing to
bet that at least some pricing decisions are made based on "we're bound to lose
x% to piracy," particularly among game makers. The consumer ends up paying for
it. A vicious circle which little Johnny is only helping to perpetuate.
> Estimating the number of illegal copies in existance is
> far, far removed from the _actual_ number of lost sales. The logic that
> (1) illegal copy = (1) lost sale is completely flawed.
Agreed. But I never made any claims about how many billions anyone is losing.
It's probably very difficult to estimate, especially in the context of the
Internet.
> In the case of games, much of the piracy comes from kids who simply
> wouldn't have the money to buy them. Their parents sure as hell
> wouldn't buy them racks of $49 game progams. That's not to say this
> type of piracy is without cost to society - think of the millions of
> wasted education dollars! I bet average test scores would go way up if
> there was no piracy of video games. ;-)
So you're saying "He's a kid and can't afford it, he'd never buy it anyway, so
we should just look the other way when he steals it." ?? How does that logic
apply to, say, the kid who wants to drive a Porsche?
Sure, in the case of software you can make the argument that the software
company isn't really losing anything because there are no tangible physical
goods involved. But the implications for public morals are... interesting. "If
you can't afford it, just steal it, it's okay." Is that how you want to raise
your kids? It sure isn't how I want to raise mine.
> This is where I believe 95% of *actual* revenues are lost. Although the
> absence of a manual doesn't necessarily indicate the absence of a
> license. Most companies negotiate licensing agreements with software
> companies which don't include manuals. Maybe not in 1986, but when we
> used WordPerfect in my corporate life of old, we didn't have manuals but
> were actually licensed. But that's not the point - this happens, and
> these situations are *really* where the anti-piracy folks should be
> focusing their efforts.
Currently, that's where SPA seems to be focusing its efforts almost exclusively.
But I think that all of us in the online community have a responsibility to make
the Internet a cleaner place. And I think we'd better do it on our own
initiative before governments get interested in cleaning up our act for us --
with all the implications that *that* has for free speech etc. We need to police
ourselves, but it's going to take a strong moral stance by a lot of people
online to make it work.
> For these reasons, I believe that shutting down every "warez" channel on
> earth would improve sales only slightly. By and large, those people
> just aren't potential customers; and the biggest thieves won't be found
> there at all.
I can't even begin to be sure about this one way or the other, since it's
practically impossible to know how many people really do use warez as a way to
try before buying, how many would or would not ever pay for the software they
pirate, etc. etc. I'd certainly be interested to see some sort of objective
survey and study done on the matter, but clearly the computer industry is not
objective on the topic.
I would advocate closing down the Warez groups because they support online
theft, pure and simple. I don't think we need to tolerate, let alone encourage,
that kind of behavior, and we surely don't need to teach our kids that it's
okay. On the Internet or anywhere else.
Very true, and if what you got with the recorder works for you, by all means
keep using it. My fight is not to encourage everyone to upgrade (well, if you
want to... <grin>), but against those who figure that they're entitled to
whatever upgrade they want for *free*.
That is so old.
You can't replicate a Porsche and leave the original at the spot. :)
Nuno Neves (Lisbon,West of Europe)
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My legal copy has never fucken up on me either. I think it says something about
the software when everyone just *has* to have it.
Why would you *have* to own a piece of 'shit' ??
** To respond to me via email, remove the x's from primenet **
Find me a person who owns an Amiga or C64 that does NOT have tons of pirated
software.
When 3rd party support quits making software due to poor sales, the system goes
too.
Dennis L wrote in message <3545a6ee...@news.primenet.com>...
> > How was the vacation?
>
> Excellent! Thanks for asking.
Great. Now that you're back to work. I got a question,
Is there a way to get DirectCD to default to 6X read
speed? Sometimes when I load it I get 2X, sometimes
6X. I would like for it to always load at 6X so I dont
have to click the icons to change it. I could not find
a .ini file, so I am curious if there is a way to do
this. Thanks.