Rappel Rack Orientation
DaltonRD
Greetings,
All my rappeling experience has used a figure 8. For reasons that I do
not disagree with, the surveyer in charge of an expedition into the lower
section of Madonna in the Lincoln National Forest has required everyone to
use a rappel rack. I am about to purchase one from REI, but I cannot
decide between one that is straight, or one with a 90 degree twist.
If I use one that is straight, the orientation of the brake bars are such
that the rope will exit to my feet or head. If I use one with a twist,
the rope will exit to my left or right. I assume I would want it to exit
to my right, since I decend with my right hand behind my back.
Others that I have talked to seem to think that the slop between the
harness, locking D, and the rack will make the 90 degree twist a moot
point. Any opinions?
Douglas Moore
-> All my rappeling experience has used a figure 8. For reasons that I
-> do not disagree with, the surveyer in charge of an expedition into
-> the lower section of Madonna in the Lincoln National Forest has
-> required everyone to use a rappel rack. I am about to purchase one
-> from REI, but I cannot decide between one that is straight, or one
-> with a 90 degree twist.
As for the orientation of a rack it really is personal preference.
Almost all of the ones we sell use a U-shaped frame which does not allow
for a 90 degree twist. The only time a twist comes much in to play is
when doing extremely long rappels (500' plus) where you have to adjust
the rack throughout the rappel. The orientation of the rack makes it a
little easier. The orientation also helps depending on where you want
the rope to exit. The general preference of most people is between the
legs instead of over the left or right leg.
As for buying a rack though, I would watch a couple things. If your
used to an '8' as you say I would buy the shortest frame rack you can
find. Something about 10 inches or so. I would also buy one with
Stainless Steel Bars over Aluminum. The reasons for both of these are
simple. You will be more likely to use the more versatile rack in place
of the '8' if it is about the same size as the '8'. The rack depending
on the one chosen will do just about any length rappel. Generally a
short frame rack is used on less than 500' and longer ones on any length
rappel.
Another thing to watch out for is the price. Local climbing stores
generally charge full retail for racks since they do not sell that many
of them. They also do not give you a full selection and you are more
likely to purchase something that will dissapoint you. Some rough
guidelines for prices on rappel racks are as follows:
Short Frame: (generally four bars one of which may be a hyper bar)
Aluminium $30.00 - $50.00
Stainless Steel $55.00 - $80.00
Titanium $125.00 +
Long Frame (Generally six bars)
Aluminum $45.00 - $80.00
Stainless Steel $50.00 - $100.00
Titanium $125.00 +
Doug
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hasb...@ix.netcom.com
In our grotto we found that there is one serious disadvantage of U shaped
racks. If the rope is dirty (only a problem if ropes are left in the cave),
the rack is very slow. The other draw back is a the limits of
adjustability. On a J-rack, you can unclip one or two bars to reduce
friction (3 bars on rope is the absolute minimum). The U-racks either
unclip 2 bars at a time or don't allow for this kind of adjustment.
So, if you will be on clean ropes, the U-rack is great. If you are looking
at dirty ropes, a J-rack is best.
Marc Hasbrouck, Caver
MLG, NSS
Its only a hobby...only a hobby...only...
Why do I cave? Because it's there!
Good surveys lead to more accurate bragging.
Steve Lepera
hasb...@ix.netcom.com wrote:
: On a J-rack, you can unclip one or two bars to reduce
: friction (3 bars on rope is the absolute minimum).
For those less expereinced, 3 is REALLY the minimum...
if you have less than you no longer have a "friction device".
I would strongly suggest that the use of less than 4 bars is
dangerous, especially if you're making adjustments on rope,
as it's really easy to "drop a bar" when you are trying to
add one.
If you're at 4 bars going to 5, and drop to 3, you
go fast but probably not splat. If you're at 3 going to
4 and drop to 2, you are in serious trouble.
A fine point, but seems worth mentioning around folks
that haven't used a rack before...
: Good surveys lead to more accurate bragging.
I love this .sig :)
--
Steve LePera /\v/\ Reacting Flow Lab
Graduate Student /\v/\ Randolph Hall
Mechanical Engineering Virginia Tech
(540)231-5882 lep...@stnick.me.vt.edu
Triumph Daytona 1971, Yamaha Seca 750, 1981 VPI #351 NSS#40805
GEORGE OLIVER TAYLOR
I use a Caving Supplies Rack (Probably only available easily in the UK)
It is a similar design to the Petzl Rack but about 15 - 20 pounds
cheaper. This has not given me any problems at all. To be honest I had
never really thought about the location of the active rope, but it
doesn't seem to pose any problems at all.
George
Roger Haley
Douglas Moore <dougla...@svis.org> wrote in article
<90.345...@svis.org>...
> -> All my rappeling experience has used a figure 8. For reasons that I
> -> do not disagree with, the surveyer in charge of an expedition into
> -> the lower section of Madonna in the Lincoln National Forest has
> -> required everyone to use a rappel rack. I am about to purchase one
> -> from REI, but I cannot decide between one that is straight, or one
> -> with a 90 degree twist.
As far as 5 or 6 bars What do you weigh???
That can make a big difference.
The twist is nice.
The key to any rap device is "stay in control!"
Roger Haley
Huntsville, AL
off...@ptd.net
>On 21 Feb 1997, DaltonRD wrote:
>>
>> If I use one that is straight, the orientation of the brake bars are such
>> that the rope will exit to my feet or head. If I use one with a twist,
>> the rope will exit to my left or right. I assume I would want it to exit
>> to my right, since I decend with my right hand behind my back.
>>
This is easily overcome by not putting either hand behind your back.
Let the rope fall between your legs, using the rack for friction, not
your hip. Used properly, a rack does not need the extra friction of
your hip, your hand, or anything else. It's all controlled by adding
or dropping bars, and spacing the bars. I've used both rack
orientations, and prefer the horizontal (ie., positioned so that you
see the flat side of the bars rather than the circular side), but
that's more a matter of preference than function. If you have the
rope running between your legs, either orientation gets you to the
bottom equally well.
Dave Hollick
off...@ptd.net
NSS 26867
stma...@eden.com
The newest technology suggests we no longer depend upon devices which
are not as safe as newer decenders. One I am thinking of can be
obtained in Australia or through USA distributors. This device when
released locks up on the rope. You would squeeze it's handle to
decend. The rope S-curves through the device and is oriented such that
it is much easier to attach/detach to/from the rope. It is the decender
device of choice in crossing re-belays, knots, etc. and now is quickly
becoming the defacto standard in Texas caves (read lots of short
decends.) The device also allows you deep decends with out taking out
any bars during the descend (another safety feature, this device has a
control handle, no bars!, just squeeze to go faster, release to stop.)
I suggest you do not consider a decender with bars, U, J or what ever.
Cindy Kay Heazlit
In <3310AB...@eden.com> stma...@eden.com writes:
>I suggest you do not consider a decender with bars, U, J or what ever.
<Sigh> We've been here before. Different devices are designed for
different applications. Each is "best" under differing curcumstances.
While the stop device you describe is good for many conditions, there
are times when it is not the best choice (like for really, really long
free drops).
You yourself said that the stop works well for multiple short drops.
That is true. But for really long drops, I'll still take my J-rack
(heat dissapation). For high altitude backpack trips, I'll still take
my 8-ring, or ATC. Other times I'll take my bobbin. It all depends on
what *type* of rigging is being used, how *long* the drop is, how
*abrasive* the rock/rope are, how *thick* the rope is, how *heavy* the
gear weighs, how *many* rappels there are, how *tricky* the descent
is, etc.
Ease of descent is just ONE factor to consider when selecting a
descending device. Your "one way", "one device" thinking doesn't
always work.
Cindy Heazlit
Bonnie(BXTAL1@aohell.com)Crystal
stma...@eden.com wrote:
>
> The newest technology suggests we no longer depend upon devices which
> are not as safe as newer decenders. One I am thinking of can be
> obtained in Australia or through USA distributors.
The name of this device is called the SRT D1 Descender or "SRT Single
Stop".
It has dynamically variable friction, and has been used (I will vouch
for this) for drops of 500 feet with out any problem.
The safety of this device is self evident, and provides automatic
braking action when the user becomes unconcious or lets go.
A typical application where the SRT Stop shines is exploration caving,
where the type of rigging, rope, or length of pitch is previously
unknown.
Bonnie Crystal
Virtual Caver
Global Grotto
simon
(yo Rob) I use a stop all the time even in the tight vertical caves what you
can do if the need arises you can place the stop on a short or long cows tail
this means as you are going through a squeeze you arms will not be by your
side but above your head. If you are doing SRT you should at all times have
your cowes tails on.
The only problem I found with a stop when over in the states is your bloody
ropes so thick I had trouble feeding it through a stop unless the pitch was
big. I now tend to use 9mm Edelrid as do a lot of my caving pals.
andy the pugh
In article <5etsof$h...@mtinsc05.worldnet.att.net>, the moving finger of
R.K...@worldnet.att.net wrote...
>
>Stops are fine...providing you don't encounter any vertical squeezes that
>require the use of both hands to navigate downward while still on rope.
>
True enough, but if you know in advance there is likely to be a problem
there is a hole you can put a krab through to disable the locking action
and convert it to the same functionality as a bobbin.
This might be handy on v.long pitches where one's hand can get surprisingly
tired holding the handle in (or is it just that I am a pathetic specimen?)
ap
GEORGE OLIVER TAYLOR
Well I suppose 9mm is OK (Especially for rapid descent.) But I have a
strange dislike for feeling like a yoyo when ascending.
Stops are very good in the right situation, they have advantages ie
safety and control, and disadvs, such as heat generation, panic squeeze
(Can be avoided by use of the gemlok version), they hurt my hand too(see
Andy pugh).
Although they can be used on long pitches in excess of 500ft (Bigger
than any single pitch that I have done), Would anyone really fancy
descending the 600M (1800ft) pitch (Approx) that was found fairly
recently in Slovenia (I think) on a Stop?
George
Wookey
andy the pugh wrote:
> >Stops are fine...providing you don't encounter any vertical squeezes that
> >require the use of both hands to navigate downward while still on rope.
> you can put a krab through to disable the locking action
> and convert it to the same functionality as a bobbin.
You can also C-rig it which also disables the lock and gives less
friction (handy for desperate vertical squeezes). Note this can result
in a major disaster if you aren't very careful. See
A safer alternative is top put your descender on your short cowstail so
it operated somewhwere round neck height.
Wookey
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