My cat died while getting declawed! :-(
XeNO
people have started telling me that it sounds possibly more like
incompetence.
I know it won't bring my babygirl back, but I need some opinions...
She was 3, and the only reason we decided to get her declawed was
because we had tried almost every other type of training/alternative to
keep it from furniture. Trust me when I say she could have all the
furniture if she could come back...
At any rate, we paid to get the laser surgery because we wanted it to be
as painless as possible, and paid to have her blood tested.
The vet said basically that the surgery went according to protocol until
they went to reviver her. She wouldn't respond. Then 3 different
people tried to inject epinephrine into her heart, but that she must
have had a small heart because they couldn't find it. This was at a
supposed cat specialist clinic as well... we thought she was as safe as
could be...
It makes no sense, we adopted her from the Humane Society when she was
10 months old, and she had been spayed there. Ours does a good job, but
they don't strike me as the type that would check a cat's heart size in
order to get them spayed.
I would especially appreciate any veterinarians to respond to this post.
I know it won't bring her back, but if it sounds like they may have done
something wrong I will be seriously pissed off!
I just want my girl back. I know she can't, but... you know. :-(
--Matt
Niel Humphreys
news:7YZFe.1302$mu6.1025@okepread04...
> Aside from being completely heartbroken, I need to know since some people
> have started telling me that it sounds possibly more like incompetence.
>
> I know it won't bring my babygirl back, but I need some opinions...
The only incompetence here is on your part getting your cat mutiliated. I
doubt you will find many people in here sympathetic to your cause enough to
offer advice.
The only sympathy I have is to your poor kitty who paid the ultimate price
for your vanity. If you didn't want a pet with claws you should have got a
fucking goldfish.
--
Niel H
XeNO
pompous, arrogant spiel from someone who couldn't tell a heart from a
nail.
I wish I could meet you in person. People are always more courageous
when they never have to show their face.
It's not like I'm just like "Oh gosh, my cat died," You don't go up to
someone who lost their best friend and say, "It's your own fault you
incompetent prick." EVEN IF IT WAS. Don't you damn well think I'd take
it back if I could you asshole? I've shed more tears for this cat
than I did when my best friend hung himself in '99. More than when my
grandpa died. Go to fucking hell you insensitive PRICK!
I'm a grown man who just cried for god knows how much time about
CLEANING THE CATBOX FOR THE FINAL TIME!
You know what... I really must be wasting my time here. If you and
everyone else in this newsgroup can only offer venom to someone
desperate for answers, solace--anything, not even the bare minimum of
politeness that one would normally offer a complete stranger, you go
burn in your own self-righteous hell you pretentious fuck.
I hate you. I've never said that to a person before. Never said it and
meant it. Never to someone I just met.
To anyone else that thinks his comments were appropriate, fuck off as
well. I'm done here, I'm done with people. I don't need goddamn anyone.
shortfuse
should declaw a cat or not. All my cats are declawed. I, like you, tried not
to do this, but I did. That person who responded to your grief was not very
nice, to say the least. He/She should had shown some tact.
My heart goes out to you. I wish I could bring your babygirl back. May be it
was because she was 3 yrs old. I usually had my cats declawed while they
were being spayed or neutered at 6-8 months. Who knows..but I do know there
is another kitty out there who would love to have a home and try to fill
that gap you are feeling now.
Take care.news:h20Ge.1308$mu6.1288@okepread04...
Roberta Bagshaw
Every operation of any kind where anaesthesia is used carries a risk.
Unfortunately sometimes things do go wrong! In this day and age we have
become quite blasé about having operations performed and we forget that the
risks remain (even though the risks are less than say 50 years ago).
I'm sorry your pussycat died...... and I'm sure everyone concerned with her
at the time did the very best they could, and used every technique available
to revive / resuscitate her.
Please don't let the loss of your cat leave you with feelings of anger at
the vets who performed the operation. I have a friend who is a veterinarian
and I know for a fact that on the rare occasions that a pet they operate on
dies for some reason or other, everyone is extremely upset, and they try to
find and remedy the cause, so it will not happen again in future. But, as
she has said to me, there are always dangers involved with any surgical
procedure.
I know what it's like to lose a much loved pet, and I know that your heart
feels broken. The empty place in your heart can maybe be filled one day by
providing a good home for some pussycat that is in dire need of one. You
will know when you are ready for that. Don't be too hard on yourself about
this whole experience, and try not to be angry or blaming..... there is
nothing to be gained by that.
Love, and peace
Bobby Bagshaw (Sec.)
Friends of the RSPCA Geraldton Auxiliary
West Australia
email: rbag...@midwest.com.au
"XeNO" <xeno...@nospam.cox.net> wrote in message
news:7YZFe.1302$mu6.1025@okepread04...
EADGBE
If it helps at all, I for one think that Niel Humphrey's comments were
COMPLETELY out of line. He was indeed an "insensitive prick" for
treating you the way that he did. GO STRAIGHT TO HELL, NIEL, WHOEVER
YOU ARE.
I can't say that I am in favor of de-clawing either, but I know grief
when I hear it, having lost my beloved Albert almost 2 weeks ago (he
ran away). Unlike that JERKOFF Niel, I can put aside my own views
about de-clawing to try to offer some comfort...it's the least I can
do, since so many nice people offered ME words of encouragement when
Albert went away.
I am very sorry for your loss and to some degree, I know *exactly* how
you feel.
I have never heard of a cat dying when being de-clawed, but I do have
some advice for you. Maybe it will help, maybe not.
Could you contact another vet in your area who de-claws cats and
WITHOUT TELLING HIM YOUR STORY, find out if they have ever lost any
cats during the de-clawing process? In other words, try to get some
background information on just how rare or common death is during a
de-clawing operaton. Try to find out how "unique" your case is. Also,
see if you can contact the state veterinary examining board in your
state to see if any complaints have been previously made against this
person. One more thing: I'm pretty sure that you had to sign some
papers before they began working on your cat. Do you still have those
papers? Read them VERY carefully. See if there is any mention of risk
and/or if there is an explanation of what potential dangers the
operation had.
Good luck, Matt. Once again, please accept my condolences on the loss
of your little girl.
--Andy
Ditty
wrote:
>I know it won't bring her back, but if it sounds like they may have done
>something wrong I will be seriously pissed off!
>
>I just want my girl back. I know she can't, but... you know. :-(
I'm so sorry for your loss. I understand completely what you're going
through. Anger at the vet may help you some with grieving but
eventually you will have to let go of it. Accidents happen. And
unknown and unexpected complications happen to the best of vets. It
could have happened due to an idiosyncratic response to the anesthesia
rather than vet incompetence, but you're not likely to ever be sure,
and as you said, your girl can't come back. Let yourself grieve, and
when time has healed the hurt a little, go back to the shelter and see
who's waiting for you there. And it wouldn't hurt to find a new vet
if you feel you can no longer trust the one you trusted with your
girl.
Again, so sorry.
(BTW, I see nothing wrong with declawing a cat when the choice is get
rid of the cat or get rid of the furniture - I have 5 cats, and 2 are
declawed because they couldn't be trained to stop clawing the
furniture and me. The other 3 are well behaved regarding claws, so
they still have theirs. Don't let the declawing nazis get you down.)
Let yourself grieve, and
--
Ditty
"Thousands of years ago, cats were
worshipped as gods. Cats have never
forgotten this." (anonymous)
http://www.dearauntnettie.com
http://www.dearauntnettie.com/museum
http://www.dearauntnettie.com/gallery
Barrnabas Collins
wrote:
>Aside from being completely heartbroken, I need to know since some
>people have started telling me that it sounds possibly more like
>incompetence.
I won't touch the declawing issue, except to add that it may have
been nothing the vet did wrong.
A number of years ago (ten?) I got up one morning at about
2 am to do my daily Tai Chi and noticed one of my cats
was very still. Too still. She had died.
I had an autopsy done to make sure my other cats were
safe, they ulitmately found nothing wrong. The cause of
death was most likely a bad heart.
In your case, evn if you didn't have the cat declawed it
may well have died chasing something, running around
the hosue, or doing whatever the cat does in a
typical day.
The heart probably would have quit no matter what
she was doing.
It also didn't help that in my cats case she didn't
have the sense to stop and rest when she should
have. She should run around like a lunatic panting
heavily and would not stop and rest. Sometimes
i'd pick her up to "enforce" rest, but you can't
watch them 24/7.
I'd lean towards a bad heart rather than incompetence.
------------------------------------------
http://www.barnabascollins.blogspot.com
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
kate
feel terrible.
I don't know anything about animal health care but I do know that
people sometimes die despite everything seeming to go right and we
really have no idea why it happens to one and not another. The
suggestion of talking to another vet without telling him/her your story
seems a good one or perhaps you could do some research on the 'net when
you feel up to it.
Once again I am so very sorry for your loss and that you have not been
given unreserved support here.
Perhaps, when you feel up to it you could post some pictures on the
'net so we can see your baby girl.
Take good care of yourself. There are people thinking of you and
praying for you.
Kate
shortfuse
Right,Matt!
Cat lovers stick together! When one of our own babies passes it hurts like
crap!
My thoughts and prayers and tears are with you!
Hugs,
Barb
Beth
Awe, I'm so sorry. I did have my kitty's front paws declawed when she got
spayed at 6 months. And while many disagree with it, and I myself now feel
a little guilty about it, my kitty is perfectly ok with it. People on here
will tell you that cats who are declawed tend to be more vicious and bite
because they lost a defense. My kitty is ok and let's me hold her little
front paws and pet them just like I did before. So don't let other people's
opinions about that add to your guilty feeling. Now, when I got my cat back
from the vet they gave me a page with her heart monitoring on it. I'm not
sure what the term is for it, but it has the little lines that represent the
heartbeat on it so I could see that she had no changes during the operation.
I agree that placing blame will not help you heal, but perhaps if you have
or could get something like that you could have another professional look it
over and give you their opinion. Perhaps her heart was weak. Nothing will
help you heal faster. It just takes time. I am so sorry for your loss.
Beth
Pookie
I don't think this rude response is necessary. Some people believe in
declawing, others don't. Its kind of similar to circumcision in that
way. Would you tell a mother who got her son circumcized that she had
mutilated him. Have a heart. If you are a cat lover, that's good,
because you seem to have difficulty relating to people.
Niel Humphreys
news:1122558012.2...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>
> Some people believe in
> declawing, others don't. Its kind of similar to circumcision in that
> way. Would you tell a mother who got her son circumcized that she had
> mutilated him. Have a heart. If you are a cat lover, that's good,
> because you seem to have difficulty relating to people.
er.. declawing is illegal in many countries (and many USA states), it's not
a case of what you believe. Look down at your hands and imagine having your
fingertips, up to the first knuckle, being cut off. THAT is what happens
when a cat is declawed, fancy it?
Read this and you'll never sympathise with cat mutilators like Xeno and
Shortfuse again.
http://www.declawing.com/
Niel H
to...@copelandhome.net
> er.. declawing is illegal in many countries (and many USA states), it's not
> a case of what you believe. Look down at your hands and imagine having your
> fingertips, up to the first knuckle, being cut off. THAT is what happens
> when a cat is declawed, fancy it?
In what US states is de-clawing illegal. Please provide the names to
back up this claim.
> Read this and you'll never sympathise with cat mutilators like Xeno and
> Shortfuse again.
> http://www.declawing.com/
This person is pushing his merchandise on this site and this should be
considered along with his opinion.
Question, is cutting out the genitals of a cat any less cruel? There
certainly are less extreme measures to prevent cats from breeding but
most people recommend cutting away the organs of the cat instead. Are
your cats spayed/neutered? I'm not against it, I just understand that
each person has their own views on the subject.
Pookie
Niel, very informative article. However rather than beat up the those
who don't know that, perhaps just sending him that article and telling
him about the website "Cat Scratching Solutions", would be more helpful
should he get another cat.
I have had 5 cats over the years, I was little with the others and I'm
not sure what my parents decided to do. I do know, first two, were not
declawed. The cat I have now was declawed (front paws only) by her
first owner.
Fortunately now there ARE many alternate solutions. Giving that
information rather than shaming someone is more helpful.
Similarly hostility towards those considering abortion doesn't teach or
help, screaming at mothers who choose not to breast feed also does not,
And with circumscision condemnation never was productive.
Try to lead through empathy and education. It is a lot more effective
than throwing bombs, literal or verbal.
Niel Humphreys
news:1122564108....@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Niel Humphreys wrote:
>
>> er.. declawing is illegal in many countries (and many USA states), it's
>> not
>> a case of what you believe. Look down at your hands and imagine having
>> your
>> fingertips, up to the first knuckle, being cut off. THAT is what happens
>> when a cat is declawed, fancy it?
>
> In what US states is de-clawing illegal. Please provide the names to
> back up this claim.
OK my error I was typing from memory after reading a similar thread in
alt.cats some time ago. Perhaps "Many US vets refuse to practice this
barbaric operation" would be more suitable. The fact remains that the USA is
one of the only major developed countries that has not yet outlawed this
abuse - the fact that so many countries have made it illegal to rip a cat's
claws out sort of gives the impression that it's not a very nice thing to do
don't you think?
>> Read this and you'll never sympathise with cat mutilators like Xeno and
>> Shortfuse again.
>> http://www.declawing.com/
>
> This person is pushing his merchandise on this site and this should be
> considered along with his opinion.
In the thread I referred to above there was also a more suitable URL (far
more graphic and to the point) but I can't find it or remember it - that
site had no advertisements, just explanations and photographic evidence of
the physical and behavioural problems that can result from declawing.
> Question, is cutting out the genitals of a cat any less cruel? There
> certainly are less extreme measures to prevent cats from breeding but
> most people recommend cutting away the organs of the cat instead. Are
> your cats spayed/neutered? I'm not against it, I just understand that
> each person has their own views on the subject.
Ripping out a cat's first line of defence can hardly be compared to
neutering them. You'll have to try better than that to justify declawing
cats as being anywhere near acceptable.
Ditty
<ad...@sznzozwzdzoznzczozmzpzuztzezrzsz.co.uk> wrote:
>The fact remains that the USA is
>one of the only major developed countries that has not yet outlawed this
>abuse - the fact that so many countries have made it illegal to rip a cat's
>claws out sort of gives the impression that it's not a very nice thing to do
>don't you think?
Yeah, and in some countries, cats are a main entree on the menu.
Sorry, sometimes declawing is the humane thing to do.
Barrnabas Collins
<ad...@sznzozwzdzoznzczozmzpzuztzezrzsz.co.uk> wrote:
>er.. declawing is illegal in many countries (and many USA states), it's not
>a case of what you believe. Look down at your hands and imagine having your
>fingertips, up to the first knuckle, being cut off. THAT is what happens
>when a cat is declawed, fancy it?
>
>Read this and you'll never sympathise with cat mutilators like Xeno and
>Shortfuse again.
>http://www.declawing.com/
Let me put it this way. Declawing is one of those debates that will
still be around 500+ year from now. It won't be settled here, it
won't be settled in my lifetime.
I would invite this discosion to migrate over to the cats declawing
usenet newsgroup.
( alt . cats . declawing-debate ) This is one of those never ending
debates, so they created a usenet newsgroup just for this topic)
In the meantime, lets let this sleeping dog lie and not bring it
up further on this thread.
to...@copelandhome.net
difference.
A first line of defense against what? A couch? Many people, including
myself, do not allow our cats outside. There are just too many dead
cats on the side of the road and wild cats around here for me to be
comfortable with it. So their claws are useless to them. I'm not saying
de-clawing it right (I would not do it to my cats) but to someone who
cares about their car and their $2000 in furniture. I can see their
argument.
Barrnabas Collins
>In what US states is de-clawing illegal. Please provide the names to
>back up this claim.
I believe there is at least one city in Calfornia that has made it
illegal.
>Question, is cutting out the genitals of a cat any less cruel? There
>certainly are less extreme measures to prevent cats from breeding but
>most people recommend cutting away the organs of the cat instead. Are
>your cats spayed/neutered? I'm not against it, I just understand that
>each person has their own views on the subject.
Except for one problem:
http://www.1-800-save-a-pet.com/public/spay_and_neuter/
Yes spaying/neutering a cat may be cruel, but putting a cat to
sleep because it is homeless is even more cruel.
Do some research. Look particularly at how many homeless
cats are put to sleep each year.
As the commercial goes in Perfect no cats would be
spayed/neutered. every cat would find a good home,
and there would be no homeless cats.
Unfortunetly we don't live in Perfect.
Shadow Walker
Any surgical procedure can cause a cat to die. The more often they are under
to higher the possibility. Even good vets loose cats and dogs when doing
every kind of surgery from complex to simple. Most of the time there is no
understandable reason for them to pass, they just do. Time will help you
heal but it will be a long time. Remember the good times and hold onto the
memories. Crying exhausts you but it helps get all the pain up front and
out.
Hugs,
Shadow Walker
"XeNO" <xeno...@nospam.cox.net> wrote in message
news:7YZFe.1302$mu6.1025@okepread04...
shortfuse
> Yes spaying/neutering a cat may be cruel, but putting a cat to
> sleep because it is homeless is even more cruel.
>
past late winter, he had hurt his paw. Took him to the vet to get his paw
checked out. He ended up staying behind and being put to sleep due to being
inflicted with Leukemia. Nearly broke my heart! I also feed about 3-4
homeless cats (2 were deserted by their owners based on fact).
Abe
>people have started telling me that it sounds possibly more like
>incompetence.
>
>I know it won't bring my babygirl back, but I need some opinions...
>
>She was 3, and the only reason we decided to get her declawed was
>because we had tried almost every other type of training/alternative to
>keep it from furniture. Trust me when I say she could have all the
>furniture if she could come back...
>
>At any rate, we paid to get the laser surgery because we wanted it to be
>as painless as possible, and paid to have her blood tested.
>
>The vet said basically that the surgery went according to protocol until
>they went to reviver her. She wouldn't respond. Then 3 different
>people tried to inject epinephrine into her heart, but that she must
>have had a small heart because they couldn't find it. This was at a
>supposed cat specialist clinic as well... we thought she was as safe as
>could be...
So sorry for your loss. It sounds like complications from anesthesia
rather than anything that went wrong surgically. You can take solace
in that it might have happened no matter what type of surgery was
being performed. I would question whether the vet monitored your cat
closely enough, but that is niether here nor there right now.
Let time heal you, and then find a new babygirl on which to lavish
your love. There's no shortage of cats that need to be loved.
whayface
>>The fact remains that the USA is
>>one of the only major developed countries that has not yet outlawed this
>>abuse - the fact that so many countries have made it illegal to rip a cat's
>>claws out sort of gives the impression that it's not a very nice thing to do
>>don't you think?
>
>Yeah, and in some countries, cats are a main entree on the menu.
>
>Sorry, sometimes declawing is the humane thing to do.
>
I think I will put my 1/2 cent in here also.
If it came down to declawing and death I wonder what these bleeding heart anti-declawers
would choose ?!?!?! I found two strays and my ex said she would take them if they were
declawed. Well I called the county shelter and the Humane Society. The shelter said they
would keep them 3 days and the Humane Society said they had no room and to take them to
the county shelter. I ran an ad in paper almost a week with no callers. All the people I
knew had enough cats and wanted no more or were anti cat!! So it was death, declaw or
leave on the streets and where they were both only about 8 weeks I figured their chances
would not be too good for survival.
Let me say that I have 4 (1 over the legal limit) and can not have more and done of mine
are declawed but as much as I hate declawing I did it and they are now almost 3 years old
and have a good indoor only home and are ALIVE through front clawless.
Can see all our babies at:
http://members.aol.com/larrystark/
RichC
your situation other than to chastise you for the procedure. We just lost
our 19 year old cat Sunday due to kidney failure so I know where your coming
from. I hesitated on the removal of some of our cats teeth because of the
anesthesia problems. I suppose our next cat will also have to have his
claws removed.
You've got my sympathy.
"XeNO" <xeno...@nospam.cox.net> wrote in message
news:7YZFe.1302$mu6.1025@okepread04...
whayface
>>The fact remains that the USA is
>>one of the only major developed countries that has not yet outlawed this
>>abuse - the fact that so many countries have made it illegal to rip a cat's
>>claws out sort of gives the impression that it's not a very nice thing to do
>>don't you think?
>
>Yeah, and in some countries, cats are a main entree on the menu.
>
>Sorry, sometimes declawing is the humane thing to do.
>
I think I will put my 1/2 cent in here also.
M.C. Mullen
"XeNO" <xeno...@nospam.cox.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
: Aside from being completely heartbroken, I need to know since some
: people have started telling me that it sounds possibly more like
: incompetence.
:
: I know it won't bring my babygirl back, but I need some opinions...
I'm very truly sorry to hear about your loss, and I feel with you.
(I've lost enough cats so I know the feeling.)
: She was 3, and the only reason we decided to get her declawed was
: because we had tried almost every other type of training/alternative to
: keep it from furniture. Trust me when I say she could have all the
: furniture if she could come back...
But .. and I'm not saying this to you - but may it help a lot of other cats:
Declawing is not only unnecessary, it's stupid, and in many states it's even
forbidden!
Carola
Dusty
> claws removed.
I can't for the life of me undertstand why people can't
spend a couple of bucks and 5 minutes every couple of weeks
instead of this de-clawing nonsense. Just buy a pair of nail
clippers and cut the tips of the claws off. No furniture
damage and more importantly, no cat mutilation.
M.C. Mullen
:
: >Aside from being completely heartbroken, I need to know since some
: >people have started telling me that it sounds possibly more like
: >incompetence.
:
: I'd lean towards a bad heart rather than incompetence.
Did the vet at least apologize or feel bad in any way?
I personally would need that, also some explanation about what went wrong.
Cats _can_ die during anaesthetics, but he could also have got the dosage
wrong.
Is he experienced?
Carola
M.C. Mullen
: http://www.1-800-save-a-pet.com/public/spay_and_neuter/
:
: Yes spaying/neutering a cat may be cruel, but putting a cat to
: sleep because it is homeless is even more cruel.
:
: Do some research. Look particularly at how many homeless
: cats are put to sleep each year.
How can neutering be cruel? *Not* to neuter a cat is cruel!
- Also to the owner who has to put up with spraying, meowing, looking for
cats that have wandered away, treating wounds from cat fights, looking for
homes for unwanted kittens etc.
Carola
Karin Gillette
I am sorry to hear of your loss. Several things may have contributed to it.
I myself have had one kitten declawed. She is an indoor cat and she has
always acted normal, even without her claws. She scratches on the
scratching post but before being declawed she slept on the scratching post
rather than use it for scratching. It was your decision to make based on
what you felt was best for you and your kitty. Don't let anyone tell you
that you were wrong or bad.
Any surgery has some risk. If she had a small heart then as someone else
has mentioned she could have died at any time.
I truly feel that you are missing your baby and hope you realize that
neither you or the vet have done anything wrong.
Karin
"XeNO" <xeno...@nospam.cox.net> wrote in message
news:7YZFe.1302$mu6.1025@okepread04...
> Aside from being completely heartbroken, I need to know since some
> people have started telling me that it sounds possibly more like
> incompetence.
>
> I know it won't bring my babygirl back, but I need some opinions...
>
> She was 3, and the only reason we decided to get her declawed was
> because we had tried almost every other type of training/alternative to
> keep it from furniture. Trust me when I say she could have all the
> furniture if she could come back...
>
Niel Humphreys
news:g_ydncBwE6b...@adelphia.com...
Chose one from, people are:
Lazy
Ignorant
Stupid
Impatient
Arseholes
--
Niel H
Carol C via CatKB.com
Dear Matt,
I am truly sorry to hear that you lost your babygirl while under anaesthetia.
I can almost feel what you are going through as my own babygirl has chronic
renal failure and I almost lost her a couple of months ago when I first found
out that she was sick.
Till this day and to every waking day, I worry I am going to lose her as it's
a terminal sickness, uncurable and you just never know when she is going to
crash. She is only 3 1/2 years old, a little older than your babygirl; it
just kills me to know that one day I am going to lose her as she means the
world to me and is my everything. My world came crashing down the day the
vet told me the bad news and each time I think about the possiblity of losing
her, my eyes start to tear without fail.
So please please accept my deepest condolences and sympathy for your babygirl.
. I know without a doubt that you would do absolutely anything if you could
have her back in your arms again (as I am doing everything I can now for my
babygirl) so don't ever blame yourself for what happened.
I live in Malaysia and my sweet babygirl loves to scratch too; not just the
furniture but us too :) I searched high and low, everywhere for a way to
stop her from scratching; I didn't have the heart to scold her when she did
so I almost decided to let her do what she wanted. Then I came across Soft
Paws on the internet where you can buy soft nail caps that easily sticks on
with harmless glue. It falls off on its own after 3 weeks so you just
replace them accordingly. There are about 40 pcs in each pack that should
last you about 3-4 months which cost USD26. I imported them from US last
year and she has been using them since. She looks really pretty as now she
is a white long haired girl with pink claws!
I hope all cat lovers who come onto this forum will decide to use this
solution instead of declawing. I have heard about the effects declawing has
on cats; true or not; I never want to and don't want to try it on my sweet
babygirl; she means too much to me.
Once again Matt, my sympathies are with you and always remember the beautiful
and happy memories you spent with your babygirl as nobody could ever take
those away from you.
Warmest Thoughts
Carol
Fair Play via CatKB.com
I am sorry about your cat. That's too bad.
RichC
"whayface" <whayfac...@yahoo.junk.com> wrote in message > Let me say
that I have 4 (1 over the legal limit) and can not have more and done of
mine
> and have a good indoor only home and are ALIVE through front clawless.
>
>
> Can see all our babies at:
> http://members.aol.com/larrystark/
>
>
DECLAW YOUR CAT" on it?
Phil P.
<to...@copelandhome.net> wrote in message
news:1122567390....@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> It's not the same? It's a different part of the cat, that is the only
> difference.
Hardly. Declawing ("onychectomy") does not benefit the cat *in any way*.
Its a surgery that's performed solely for the convenience of owners who are
to inept, lazy or indifferent to train their cats where to scratch.
Declawing actually involves *10* separate amputations of the third phalanges
up to and including the *joint*. Amputation without medical benefit is
*mayhem*- in anyone's language. Surgery without medical benefit is
*mutilation*.
Neutering, on the other hand, prevents testicular, ovarian, uterine, and
mammary cancers; eliminates the stress and discomfort of repeated heats in
females and stress in males. Neutered cats live less stressful lives- and
stress leads to a myriad of physical and emotional problems.
As far as behavior: neutered males are much more hygienic, are much
friendlier to other cats, tolerate handling better, give more affection, are
more playful and demand more attention than intact males. Neutered females
are a little more playful, are friendlier to other household cats and
tolerate handling better than intact females.
Thus, neutering benefits the cat and the owner; declawing benefits only the
owner.
>
> A first line of defense against what? A couch? Many people, including
> myself, do not allow our cats outside. There are just too many dead
> cats on the side of the road and wild cats around here for me to be
> comfortable with it. So their claws are useless to them. I'm not saying
> de-clawing it right (I would not do it to my cats) but to someone who
> cares about their car and their $2000 in furniture. I can see their
> argument.
A very shallow, self-centered argument. Cat's use their claws for much more
than defense. A cat's claws are used for balance, for exercising, and for
stretching the muscles in their legs, back, shoulders, and paws. They
stretch these muscles by digging their claws into a surface and pulling back
against their own clawhold - similar to isometric exercising for humans.
This is the only way a cat can exercise, stretch and tone the muscles of its
back and shoulders. Ever wonder why a cat arches her back when she digs into
a scratching post and pulls back, or are you normally not that inquisitive?
Phil P.
> On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 15:42:52 GMT, Ditty <doow...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >>The fact remains that the USA is
> >>one of the only major developed countries that has not yet outlawed this
> >>abuse - the fact that so many countries have made it illegal to rip a
cat's
> >>claws out sort of gives the impression that it's not a very nice thing
to do
> >>don't you think?
> >
> >Yeah, and in some countries, cats are a main entree on the menu.
> >
> >Sorry, sometimes declawing is the humane thing to do.
> >
>
> I think I will put my 1/2 cent in here also.
>
> If it came down to declawing and death
Ahh! The old 'death or declaw" ultimatum! Only weak minded and weak
spirited people and unethical and greedy vets submit to that form of moral
blackmail.
The National Council on Pet Population Study and Policy conducted a three
year study involving 1000 shelters nationwide to determine the 10 most
common reasons for relinquishing cats to shelters. Scratching was not even
on the list! In fact another study published in the Journal of the American
Veterinary Association published a study that showed declawing *increases*
the risk of relinquishment!
Phil P.
<to...@copelandhome.net> wrote in message
news:1122564108....@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Niel Humphreys wrote:
>
> > er.. declawing is illegal in many countries (and many USA states), it's
not
> > a case of what you believe. Look down at your hands and imagine having
your
> > fingertips, up to the first knuckle, being cut off. THAT is what
happens
> > when a cat is declawed, fancy it?
>
> In what US states is de-clawing illegal. Please provide the names to
> back up this claim.
>
> > Read this and you'll never sympathise with cat mutilators like Xeno and
> > Shortfuse again.
> > http://www.declawing.com/
>
> This person is pushing his merchandise on this site and this should be
> considered along with his opinion.
Here's a site that opposes declawing that has nothing to sell- and is backed
up by clinical studies.
http://www.maxshouse.com/facts_about_declawing.htm
http://www.maxshouse.com/understanding_scratching.htm
>
> Question, is cutting out the genitals of a cat any less cruel? There
> certainly are less extreme measures to prevent cats from breeding
Hormone treatment, and tubal ligation-vasectomy do not prevent mammary,
ovarian, uterine, and testicle cancers. These cancers can only be prevented
by neutering and spaying. Non-surgical sterilization also does not
eliminate estrous cycles in females or urine marking and aggression in
males.
but
> most people recommend cutting away the organs of the cat instead.
...because neutering benefits the cat and the owner and the general feline
population as a species.
Are
> your cats spayed/neutered? I'm not against it, I just understand that
> each person has their own views on the subject.
There are no other views- only excuses. Its ethically and morally
inappropriate to declaw a cat and causing the cat pain, and depriving the
cat of the enjoyment and physical and emotional need to scratch merely to
fit the owner's lifestyle aesthetics, or convenience.
How do all the millions of people around the world who live in countries
where declawing is either illegal or not performed manage to live in harmony
with their fully clawed cats? Or do you think they live in shredded homes
and are covered with festering sores from cat scratches???
If a person can't train a cat where to scratch- they're not suited to have
a cat.
shortfuse
I think enough has been said on this subject.
Phil P.
"Roberta Bagshaw" <rbag...@midwest.com.au> wrote in message
news:42e8...@quokka.wn.com.au...
> Hi Xeno
>
> Every operation of any kind where anaesthesia is used carries a risk.
True. But it must hurt a lot more when the surgery was unnecessary and
wouldn't have provided any medical or psychological benefit for the cat.
The guilt would haunt me for the rest of my life.
Phil P.
Bingo! The way some people act about claw trimming, one would think its
brain surgery! It takes less time and effort to trim a cat's claw than it
does to brush her!
Phil P.
"shortfuse" <fire...@lit.com> wrote in message
news:78GdnRewQPT...@bright.net...
> As previously posted, there is a NG relating to declawing.
> I think enough has been said on this subject.
Enough will have been said when declawing is no longer permitted- unless its
performed as a medical necessity, not before.
whayface
>> .........as I hate declawing I did it and they are now almost 3 years old
>> and have a good indoor only home and are ALIVE through front clawless.
>>
>>
>> Can see all our babies at:
>> http://members.aol.com/larrystark/
>>
>>
>I agree with your thinking but why do you have a web page that has "DON'T
>DECLAW YOUR CAT" on it?
>
Well because if you read ALL OF MY PREVIOUS POST you would have seen that I prefer no
declawing and none of mine are declawed but if it means keeping them alive I would choose
declawing over death.
I look at this declawing thing with a little more open mine then some people but would
never declaw any of mine. Hopefully whoever gets mine when I am gone being as
how I am in my 60s will not chop their toes off but if that is the only way they will take
them well ---- :-(
coorslte
Barrnabas Collins
<mcmu...@freesurf.invalid.ch> wrote:
>Did the vet at least apologize or feel bad in any way?
it just up and died at home at night.
It has been several months since the last vet visit.
There was an autopsy done, nothing conclusive so
they leaned towards a bad heart.
John
<xeno...@nospam.cox.net> wrote:
>Aside from being completely heartbroken, I need to know since some
>people have started telling me that it sounds possibly more like
>incompetence.
>
>I know it won't bring my babygirl back, but I need some opinions...
>
>She was 3, and the only reason we decided to get her declawed was
>because we had tried almost every other type of training/alternative to
>keep it from furniture. Trust me when I say she could have all the
>furniture if she could come back...
>
>At any rate, we paid to get the laser surgery because we wanted it to be
>as painless as possible, and paid to have her blood tested.
>
>The vet said basically that the surgery went according to protocol until
>they went to reviver her. She wouldn't respond. Then 3 different
>people tried to inject epinephrine into her heart, but that she must
>have had a small heart because they couldn't find it. This was at a
>supposed cat specialist clinic as well... we thought she was as safe as
>could be...
>
>It makes no sense, we adopted her from the Humane Society when she was
>10 months old, and she had been spayed there. Ours does a good job, but
>they don't strike me as the type that would check a cat's heart size in
>order to get them spayed.
>
>I would especially appreciate any veterinarians to respond to this post.
>
>I know it won't bring her back, but if it sounds like they may have done
>something wrong I will be seriously pissed off!
>
>I just want my girl back. I know she can't, but... you know. :-(
>
>--Matt
Sorry about your loss Matt. You must be really gutted :(
As far as the operation goes it sounds like just one of those things
unfortunately. With "Any" operation there is always an element of
risk. Even yourself going to a dentist involves risk. Some people die
while having a relatively simple dental operation. I would try and
get over this as best you can. I'd avoid going down a litigious route,
and assigning blame anywhere, it's not going to change anything, just
try to move on instead. Church is better than Court, I've been
really gutted when I have lost goldfish and hamsters. There's no space
left in our back garden for anything else. There are goldfish, a few
Koi Carp, Loaches, 3 Hamster, 7 baby Hamsters (long story I'm not even
going to get into that), a Rabbit, even a Chinese Algae Eater that
lived in our aquarium for 12 years that I grew fond of! Thankfully I
have not lost anyone really close to me. If I am so gutted at just
losing a hamster etc, I can't imagine what I'd be like if it was a
close relation.
On the part about the Cat being declawed though, with the deepest of
sympathy and respect, you should 'never' get a cat declawed. It
doesn't just change the cat physically, but it also affects them
mentally and psychologically changes their personality. Even if the
operation had been a success, the cat would still have been
psychologically damaged. It wouldn't have been the same cat. Cats
rely on the claws for survival in the wild. Cats as pets are no
different. Whether you let them out at night or in the day, they are
then 'in the wild' and need those claws. Without them they would feel
a part of themselves missing, a very major and vital part that they
rely on. If the cat had been declawed it would have felt like an
injury to the cat. I can't comment on whether it is a good idea to
get a cat declawed when it is only very young, and whether it would
affect them as drastically at a very young age. I do know though that
after a certain period of time it isn't recommended to have them
neutered though.
We just learned to accept that some or our furniture and carpets are
going to 'get it' from the cats claws. You have to be willing to take
a little damage to some of your carpets and furniture if you are going
to have a cat as a pet.
You can train them though, so that they know that certain areas are
off limits and they are in big trouble if they try to go there.
Our cat hardly ever ventures in the kitchen (hygiene & safety), and
certain expensive items of furniture you can make off limits to them
as well. If they know that every time they jump on that certain piece
of furniture, they either a) get hissed at, or b) get spray with a bit
of water, eventually they associate that item of furniture as being
off limits, and they know if they go there someone is going to be
cross with them, and they may get a little water on them.
This is also a good way of letting them know that while you are eating
Pepperoni Pizza or Chicken Fried Rice for tea, they are not entitled
to share it :) A spray of water from one of those small 500ml bottles
you use for house plants is sufficient. Also, I have found if there
isn't one handy, if you make a hissing noise like that of a snake at
them, this is also usually good enough to keep them away.
As far as operations for cats go, I was watching a programme on
television the other day on Siberian Tigers and the conservation
effort over in Russia and China. Even this cat, the biggest cat in
the World is sometimes lost when they are just doing something simple
like trying to revive the cat after tagging it.
When you have had a loss like this, the first week after is always
dreadful. The first month you are still devastated. After 1 month or
so, you then start to gradually pick up and move on.
John
Dusty
> As previously posted, there is a NG relating to declawing.
> I think enough has been said on this subject.
Enough will have been said when people worldwide come to
realize that declawing is tatamount to mutilation and the
practice is banned. I'm sorry but if that new couch is more
important than your cat then buy the couch and leave the
kitten at the pet store.
srid...@aol.com
I'm very sorry about your cat, Matt. There's just that risk, every
single time a cat goes under anesthesia. The exact, same thing happened
to my Dalmation mix Dottie when she was spayed. They lost her on the
operating table, and simply could not get her back.
Sherry
John
your loss matey! :( It sucks big time.
Neil - Your comments in your reply were out of order. You need to be
respectful when someone has lost a pet they obviously cared about a
lot, despite your personal views on de-clawing. I completely agree
with you on de-clawing by the way, but your response was harsh and
unnecessary.
On what Matt has told us in his original post, it appears that
everything went smoothly until they tried to revive the cat. Putting
aside your personal opinion of cats being de-clawed, to me it would
seem that the actual de-clawing part of the operation was not the
reason why the cat passed away. A lot of operations with cats are
successful, however there is always an element of risk involved and
sometimes unfortunately it may not be possible to revive a cat.
Perhaps this has more to do with the injection used to revive them. It
may be difficult to determine the precise dose needed for different
cats. Unfortunately this is just one of those things. A lot of cats
are killed in the road by cars, and that is pretty horrific and messy.
If there is any consolation from this, then at the very least it was
painless and he passed over peacefully. Not much consolation I know
when you have lost a pet you loved.
Pookie - I agree you need to have a heart when someone has lost a pet
they loved. I am personally against de-clawing and would advise
everyone who keeps or intends to keep a cat against it. On the subject
of circumcision, I would personally say that this also is mutilation.
I wouldn't go around telling Moms who have done that to their sons
that it is wrong though whether that is for religious reasons or
whatever. I wonder what would happen though if boys were given the
options of choosing for themselves whether they are circumcised or not
when they turn 18 or 21, as opposed to not having any say in the
matter? I wonder which option most would choose? Of course if you
have been circumcised as a baby or young child then it may not make
any difference to you today. I do know that there are many who have
though, who wish that choice hadn't been made for them.
Getting back on topic...
As I have previously said on the subject of de-clawing and with the
deepest respect to Matt, I believe you should 'never' get a cat
de-clawed. It doesn't just change the cat physically, but it also
affects them mentally and psychologically changes their personality.
Even if the operation had been a success, the cat would still have
been psychologically damaged. It wouldn't have been the same cat.
Cats rely on the claws for survival in the wild. Cats as pets are no
different. Whether you let them out at night or in the day, they are
then 'in the wild' and need those claws. Without them they would feel
a part of themselves missing, a very major and vital part that they
rely on. If the cat had been de-clawed it would have felt like an
injury to the cat. Cats use their claws to help them climb up trees,
cling on to things, hunt, stretch, catch and kill things, and defend
themselves from other cats and predators. Without them they are at a
huge disadvantage. Even if you are only playing with your cat in the
home and he is chasing things, at that point despite being indoors he
is in predator mode and is 'in the wild', he needs those claws and
teeth to catch that piece of string, toy mouse or feathers you are
swaying in the air.
You have to be willing to take a little damage to some of your carpets
and furniture if you are going to have a cat as a pet. I wouldn't
advise you chose a cat for a pet if you are not prepared for all that
it entails. The same goes for Chinchillas and other animals that need
to scratch and use their teeth too. We just learned to accept that
some or our furniture and carpets are going to 'get it' from the cats
claws.
You can train cats though to an extent whereby they know that certain
areas are off limits and they are in big trouble if they try to go
there.
Ditty - Personally I don't believe de-clawing can ever be the humane
thing to do. It is only humane in terms of the owners needs. I fail to
see any way in which de-clawing can be humane for a cat; it doesn't
benefit the cat in any way, and puts it at a major disadvantage as
well as damaging it psychologically. It is something that only
benefits the owner.
Whayface - I'm not a bleeding heart anti de-clawer, I do disagree with
your viewpoint though. I personally believe that life indoors is not
much of a life for a cat. I also believe that a de-clawed cat doesn't
enjoy the life or freedom of a normal cat. It puts them at a major
disadvantage and can damage them psychologically. Perhaps if
de-clawing were done when the cats are very young it wouldn't affect
them to the same degree. Nonetheless I still believe the practice to
be completely wrong, and something that doesn't benefit the cat in any
way, but harms them. It only benefits the humans. A de-clawed cat is
not a cat, in my opinion.
Todd - We allow our cat out every day. Roads are dangerous, however
they are dangerous for us humans as well as cats. We don't stay
confined inside because of this. This is what life is all about. It
is about freedom. Vehicles on the road sometimes kill cats and that
is unfortunate. I would say a majority of cats though would learn
very quickly that roads are dangerous and generally they will stay
away from them when they are busy with noisy traffic.
I would rather my cat be able to go outside and enjoy all the benefits
and freedom and take the small risk that is involved naturally in
"nature" (i.e. laws of natural selection) than for them to be
artificially confined to a life indoors were they miss out on a lot of
the activities a normal cat, claws included, would engage in.
Once a cat has been de-clawed, it would effectively be cruel to let
them venture outside. I don't see the argument to someone who cares
about material goods, whether that's a $2000 couch or a $50,000 car,
above that of their pet. If they do care about their couch more, then
perhaps a cat is not the best choice of pet for them in the first
place? You can replace a couch and a car, but you can never replace
the same cat. That is my opinion and is where I stand on that.
Phil - Our cat is not neutered. Neutering would prevent any cancer in
that part of the body if it were no longer present :) Of course it
doesn't mean that 95% of cats would have got any form of cancer anyway
had they not been neutered. Our cat is very chilled out. He is asleep
half the time. He is also extremely hygienic. He always seems to be
paying attending to a certain part of his body with his tongue. It is
most amusing especially if you have it on camcorder with commentary :)
Our cat is extremely friendly. He has not been in many fights. In
fact another male in the neighbourhood that is half his size, and has
more likely than not been neutered bullies him.
Technically, you could say that a cat, which has been neutered, is no
longer male or female. It is then asexual.
Does neutering benefit the cat as well as the owner? Does it "really"
make that much of a difference? Granted it may be the responsible
thing to do, however is it not natural for female cats to be in heat
and males to get stressed out now and again? Is this not just what is
known as 'nature'? Is it necessary for both sexes to get neutered?
After all we are talking about contraception here, albeit permanent
contraception. Can a male or female cat get a vasectomy? Is neutering
the only option? I haven't really formed much of an opinion yet on
neutering.
Carola - Why do you believe it is cruel to "not" neuter a cat? We
have never witnessed our cat spraying? Perhaps this is something he
might do outside? He certainly doesn't do anything like that inside :)
As for Meowing, that is what cats are supposed to do naturally is it
not? :) It comes as standard with the purring, scratching et cetera.
Our cat has never wondered away for more than one day at the most. He
usually comes back every evening when he is hungry. We often let him
come and go as he pleases. As far as cat fights go he has never
really been in any! The vet did say she was surprised that he had not
been in a few being a male. However our cat sometimes gets bullied by
a small black male cat half his size that is more likely than not
neutered and is quite aggressive. Our cat, which is pretty big and
strong usually just runs away or avoids him altogether! I am actually
quite dismayed about that, and the fact he is being bullied. I have
been training him a lot to chase things all over our living room. We
have never had any major wounds to treat for our cat. Just a slight
scratch from another cat, probably the small black aggressive one that
is likely neutered.
As for unwanted kittens, I would tend to agree that "contraception for
cats" is a responsible thing to do. I don't know whether I would
personally include neutering as that form of contraception.
It just didn't happen for our cat. When I use the word "our", it is
technically not "my" cat, my sister is the owner, but she moved back
home so it has become the family cat now. She was actually going to
get him neutered and had pencilled in a date in her diary to do so,
however she went through a very difficult and trying time in her life
and by the time it came up again, the cat was too old for it, it was
already past the stage were it should have really been done. I
wouldn't ever change the way he was now though, he is perfect the way
he is. I believe he is how a normal British Shorthair, claws included,
should be, well, apart from the bit were he doesn't do anything when
that little black cat charges for him :)
Phil - (again:) Our cat is fully clawed. Damage to carpets and
furniture is minimal or hardly noticeable. Even if there was
noticeable damage, you can get it repaired, have a throw over if it's
a couch or eventually just by new furniture anyway. There are things
you can do to prevent damage. Even training your cat not to claw
certain items of furniture is a good method.
Perhaps also, a lot of people posting in here would find that their
cats had they been allowed to go outside on a regular basis in the
first place, their claws would have been kept worn down by their
ventures in the outside world, e.g. climbing up trees, walls, charging
to catch prey et cetera.
John
Barrnabas Collins
>On the subject
>of ccisionircum, I would personally say that this also is mutilation.
>I wouldn't go around telling Moms who have done that to their sons
>that it is wrong though whether that is for religious reasons or
>whatever.
On a related note there was a study very recently that those
who are circumcised are less apt to get aids. You'll probably
see more studies about this in the future.
I would add the reason circumcision is done is for
religious reasons.
Niel Humphreys
news:RqWdnS_Ji5C...@giganews.com...
As it would I also
--
Niel H
Niel Humphreys
Hear hear.
--
Niel H
Barrnabas Collins
>, I believe you should 'never' get a cat
>de-clawed.
I would add, as I found out the hard way, is even if your cats are
entirely indoor cats there are times when the cat needs it's claws.
A number of years ago I had an old house where a squirrel somehow
got into the house.. One of my female cats decided she had to
attempt to eradicate this intruder.
She did survive, the squirrrel was removed from the house,
but for me it serves as a lesson that you never know when
your cat(s) will need those claws.
I would also add you never know when a fire, storm, or other
event will force the cat outside where it will need it's claws to
defend itself.
Yeah you may say the cat is totally indoors and doesn't need
them but what happens if the house is on fire, is hit
by a tornado, or some other disaster strikes.
Having the cat defenseless without claws scares me.
Barrnabas Collins
wrote:
Enough will have been said the day Manny Ramirez grows up and
acts like an adult. Until then Manny will plague Red Sox fans
with his antics and the Declawing debate will continue. Any maybe
by the year 3000 it will be settlled. Until then i woudln't hold my
breath either way.
Phil P.
"John" <du...@dogers.com> wrote in message
news:ukble1d554mft6aga...@4ax.com...
>
> Phil - Our cat is not neutered.
Why? Is there a cat shortage where you live? If so, let me know, I'll be
happy to send you a few hundred cats.
>
> Technically, you could say that a cat, which has been neutered, is no
> longer male or female. It is then asexual.
No, you could not.
>
> Does neutering benefit the cat as well as the owner? Does it "really"
> make that much of a difference?
Yes. When you learn a little more about the psychology of cats, you'll
understand.
Granted it may be the responsible
> thing to do, however is it not natural for female cats to be in heat
> and males to get stressed out now and again?
In nature, a female's heats are answered and male's sexual instincts are
satisfied. Pet cats are not in the wild.
> Can a male or female cat get a vasectomy? Is neutering
> the only option? I haven't really formed much of an opinion yet on
> neutering.
Tubal ligation and vasectomy only prevent pregnancy- they do not eliminate
cancers or heats or aggression in males.
>
> Phil - (again:) Our cat is fully clawed. Damage to carpets and
> furniture is minimal or hardly noticeable. Even if there was
> noticeable damage, you can get it repaired, have a throw over if it's
> a couch or eventually just by new furniture anyway. There are things
> you can do to prevent damage. Even training your cat not to claw
> certain items of furniture is a good method.
>
> Perhaps also, a lot of people posting in here would find that their
> cats had they been allowed to go outside on a regular basis in the
> first place,
...they would probably be scraping their cats up off of the street.
Bigjoe
le message de news: 42e8761c$0$13706$cc9e...@news-text.dial.pipex.com...
people
> > have started telling me that it sounds possibly more like incompetence.
> >
> > I know it won't bring my babygirl back, but I need some opinions...
>
>
> doubt you will find many people in here sympathetic to your cause enough
to
> offer advice.
>
> The only sympathy I have is to your poor kitty who paid the ultimate price
> for your vanity. If you didn't want a pet with claws you should have got a
> fucking goldfish.
Absolutely right +++ ! Poor little cat !! :-(
M.C. Mullen
"coorslte" <coor...@comcast.net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:K2sGe.2195$aT1....@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com...
Not US states - European ones, or maybe the better word I should have used
would have been _countries_.
Cutting dog's tails and ears is forbidden too. Is it in USA?
Carola
M.C. Mullen
"Barrnabas Collins" <BarnabasColl...@hotmail.com> schrieb im
Newsbeitrag news:m7gle11oauil2r940...@4ax.com...
: On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 23:33:59 +0100, John <du...@dogers.com> wrote:
:
: >On the subject
: >of ccisionircum, I would personally say that this also is mutilation.
: >I wouldn't go around telling Moms who have done that to their sons
: >that it is wrong though whether that is for religious reasons or
: >whatever.
: On a related note there was a study very recently that those
: who are circumcised are less apt to get aids. You'll probably
: see more studies about this in the future.
:
: I would add the reason circumcision is done is for
: religious reasons.
Plus the person/part operated on still functions, where as the cat's claws
are destroyed and don't function properly anymore!
Carola
M.C. Mullen
: On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 23:33:59 +0100, John <du...@dogers.com> wrote:
:
: >, I believe you should 'never' get a cat
: >de-clawed.
: I would add, as I found out the hard way, is even if your cats are
: entirely indoor cats there are times when the cat needs it's claws.
: A number of years ago I had an old house where a squirrel somehow
: got into the house.. One of my female cats decided she had to
: attempt to eradicate this intruder.
:
: She did survive, the squirrrel was removed from the house,
: but for me it serves as a lesson that you never know when
: your cat(s) will need those claws.
:
: I would also add you never know when a fire, storm, or other
: event will force the cat outside where it will need it's claws to
: defend itself.
:
: Yeah you may say the cat is totally indoors and doesn't need
: them but what happens if the house is on fire, is hit
: by a tornado, or some other disaster strikes.
:
: Having the cat defenseless without claws scares me.
It's enough if the cat just slips out by mistake, meets a dog and cannot
flee unto the next tree.
Carola
shortfuse
When I was to neuter my first cat, I asked my vet about declawing. He said
it was a personal decision. He, himself, had declawed his own cat.They were
literally tearing up the house (which mine was doing,too). If he had it done
to his own pets, then I felt confident it would go well with mine. I have
not seen any mental changes in my cats nor physical changes. My vet told me
that if they did go out, they would still have their back claws, which he
says is what they primarily use to fight with. I notice that is true when
watching stray cats fighting it out.
When it becomes illegal in the USA to declaw domestic animals......
Ivor Jones
> Hi, Matt:
>
> If it helps at all, I for one think that Niel Humphrey's comments
> were COMPLETELY out of line. He was indeed an "insensitive prick"
> for treating you the way that he did. GO STRAIGHT TO HELL, NIEL,
> WHOEVER YOU ARE.
I don't agree with his comments, although I do agree with his sentiment.
What I'd like to know is why this barbaric practice is still allowed in
the US. I know it's been outlawed in some states but it's still prevalent.
The US and Canada are, AFAIK, the only places in the *world* that still
allow this mutilation. IMHO any so-called "vet" that practices it should
be removed from the register like a human doctor being struck off. Or
maybe given the same treatment.
How would *you* like it done to *you* I wonder..?
Ivor (in the UK)
Ivor Jones
>>> Aside from being completely heartbroken, I need to know since
>>> some people have started telling me that it sounds possibly more
>>> like incompetence.
>>>
>>> I know it won't bring my babygirl back, but I need some
>>> opinions...
>>
>>
>> mutiliated. I doubt you will find many people in here sympathetic
>> to your cause enough to offer advice.
>>
>> The only sympathy I have is to your poor kitty who paid the
>> ultimate price for your vanity. If you didn't want a pet with
>> claws you should have got a fucking goldfish.
>>
>> Niel H
>
> I don't think this rude response is necessary. Some people believe
> in declawing, others don't.
Some people believe in torture, that doesn't make it right.
> Its kind of similar to circumcision in
> that way.
Which is also mutilation.
> Would you tell a mother who got her son circumcized that
> she had mutilated him.
Yes.
> Have a heart. If you are a cat lover, that's
> good, because you seem to have difficulty relating to people.
I have a heart, I love cats well enough not to mutilate them.
Ivor
srid...@aol.com
shortfuse wrote:
> When I was to neuter my first cat, I asked my vet about declawing. He said
> it was a personal decision. He, himself, had declawed his own cat.They were
> literally tearing up the house (which mine was doing,too). If he had it done
> to his own pets, then I felt confident it would go well with mine. I have
> not seen any mental changes in my cats nor physical changes. My vet told me
> that if they did go out, they would still have their back claws, which he
> says is what they primarily use to fight with. I notice that is true when
> watching stray cats fighting it out.
A very hard lesson I learned is that there are good vets, and bad vets.
Just because your vet does not condemn declaw, doesn't mean it is
acceptable. Vets have a financial interest also--if he doesn't perform
declaw, he may lose the rest of your business, too. YOU have a
responsibility to your cat, not your vet. YOU must make the best
decision after weighing the facts. Please do some research on declaw. I
really think you'd change your mind.
I've heard that bunk propoganda about the back claws. Think about it. A
cat without front claws is *severely* handicapped when he's up against
a fully-clawed cat or a dog.
Sherry
Niel Humphreys
>
> When I was to neuter my first cat, I asked my vet about declawing. He said
> it was a personal decision. He, himself, had declawed his own cat.They
> were literally tearing up the house (which mine was doing,too). If he had
> it done to his own pets, then I felt confident it would go well with mine.
> I have not seen any mental changes in my cats nor physical changes. My vet
> told me that if they did go out, they would still have their back claws,
> which he says is what they primarily use to fight with.
Oh yea, how many cats have you seen turn around when attacked or roll upside
down and defend by kicking out with their back feet? Back claw attacks are
only used when the cat has already gripped their opponent with their front
claws close to their body, the idea that the oppoent is held too tight to
attack and the cat can use it's powerful rear legs to rip it to shreds while
holding it close. Ripping out front claws makes this impossible and renders
the back claws more or less useless.
--
Niel H
shortfuse
How many out there would not "mutilate" their cat, but wouldnt think twice
about killing their unborn child?
Barrnabas Collins
<iv...@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>I don't agree with his comments, although I do agree with his sentiment.
>What I'd like to know is why this barbaric practice is still allowed in
>the US. I know it's been outlawed in some states but it's still prevalent.
One of the reasons for it is pets are considered property, and you can
do whatever you want with property. That view is changing, but the
change is very slow.
It won't happen for a lot of years.
Barrnabas Collins
wrote:
>
>How many out there would not "mutilate" their cat, but wouldnt think twice
>about killing their unborn child?
>
Let me guess, you're male.
I've been following the abortion debate for alot of years
and am more convinced than ever if men could
get pregnant there would be a constiutional amendment
guaranteeing a free quick and safe abortion through the
nineht month, contraceptives would never fail, and
if they did the manufacturer would pay off without
question on a $1,000,000 insurance polity.
I've noticed underlying the abortiuon debate is
deep seeded hatred of women. Men who
hate tthe idea that women work, vote, that
they can't beat up women like the Taliban did.
It wasn't too many years ago in the US where it
was legal for men to hit women, that contraceptives
were illegal, that women could not vote.
After all you've to really hate a woman to make her
carry to term (9 months) the product of a rape.
Barrnabas Collins
wrote:
>
>How many out there would not "mutilate" their cat, but wouldnt think twice
>about killing their unborn child?
>
How come God can perform abortions but humans can't? A miscarriage
is essentially God performing an abortion.
shortfuse
"Barrnabas Collins" <BarnabasColl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5j4ne15ki76dm5s43...@4ax.com...
shortfuse
didnt do it.
"Barrnabas Collins" <BarnabasColl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:p25ne15h4c9j3utg7...@4ax.com...
Kalyahna
>
> How many out there would not "mutilate" their cat, but wouldnt think twice
> about killing their unborn child?
*shrug* I don't want children. I have a niece and a nephew whom I adore.
That's
plenty for me.
I'm of the opinion that my living, breathing cats are my children. I just
think of the
semi-feral cat as stuck in the terrible twos. :)
I've heard it well argued that fetuses are really just parasites until the
birth is
successful (and no, I don't remember where, but I'm not smart enough to come
up
with stuff like that - I just read it and go 'oooo, that makes sense').
Either way, no one has the right to make a decision about my body (and
anything
inside of it) except me. Which applies to my cats, as well. I know more than
a couple
of vets who declaw 'because it's easier' for their household. That doesn't
make it okay.
That makes me go elsewhere for my vet care.
Any human doctor who started preaching at me about his religious beliefs
after
announcing my unwanted pregnancy would lose me as a patient, and would
promptly
have a complaint filed against him (or her). The same for a pharmacist who
refuses to
fill a birth control prescription.
/end rant.
Kalyahna
news:42eb7cbe$0$1146$5402...@news.sunrise.ch...
>
> Cutting dog's tails and ears is forbidden too. Is it in USA?
>
>
> Carola
Nope. Although I think there might be more headway on convincing vets
that purely cosmetic surgeries are pointless. *shrug* Then again, we can't
even prosecute people for chopping off their pitbulls ears without
anaesthetic.
Or for rubber-banding a rottweiler puppy's tail until it rots off.
We -are- the nation where people get 'tough' breeds to prove their manhood.
And then mutilate them so the animal can look tougher still.
http://humanesociety.dane.wi.us/ The top left, there's a staff terrier who
spent
her life in a garage. The absolute sweetest dog EVER. Ears were cut off.
http://humanesociety.dane.wi.us/Adoption/animal.asp?id=60070 This is
Vivian.
Check out what's left of her ears.
shortfuse
I think our cats are getting along better than some of the replies here in
this newsgroup. Mine included. I am therefore not saying anything else on
the matter of declawing, abortion or anything else.
Barrnabas Collins
want to cut the tail or the ears?
My understanding is the tail is needed for balance and the
ears are needed for hearing. So why would you
cut them unless you wanted a dog that was deaf and
kept falling. What am I mising here?
I would also expect that cutting the tail would be very
painful. (Lots of muscles in there as well as nerves,
blood vessles).
And how would you cut off the ear without 1. the
dog bleeding to death. 2. it being exceptioanlly painful?
I know declawing a cat is painful but it would seem to
me that cutting off the ear would be alot more painful.
(espeically the pain to the ear drum and the inner ear.)
Barrnabas Collins
wrote:
>We -are- the nation where people get 'tough' breeds to prove their manhood.
>And then mutilate them so the animal can look tougher still.
Exactly how does a dog with no tail or no ears look "tougher?"
To me it looks like a dog with no tail or no ears.
What am I missing here?
Barrnabas Collins
>>about killing their unborn child?
conception and ends at birth.
Republicans want to prosecute women who get abortions
but let a drug company sell a drug that kills 55,000 people
and the republicans not only will refuse to prosecute
they will bend over backwards to give them tax breaks
and protection in the courts.
(Vioxxx killed 29,000 to 55,000 people depending
on whose estimats you want to use.)
Republicans want to prosecute women who get abortions
but let some children die from the dumping of hazardous
waste and republicans want to give the coporation a
tax break and sheild the from law suits.
Republicans want to prosecute women who get abortions
but they will give free reign to HMOs to kill those kids when
they refuse treatment. And then republicans will turn around
and protect those HMOs from lawsuits.
/rant off
wes...@laway.net
wrote:
>
>I think our cats are getting along better than some of the replies here in
>this newsgroup. Mine included. I am therefore not saying anything else on
>the matter of declawing, abortion or anything else.
>
Good.
Ray Thompson
wes...@laway.net wrote:
It wouldn't be so bad if issues were attacked, instead of people; and if
certain ones could respond without using language that would make Satan
himself blush.
Anna-Maria
news:7YZFe.1302$mu6.1025@okepread04...
Hi XeNO,
I'm very speechless about this things happened in your modern and
progressive country. I'm from Europe, where these practices are not only
forbidden, they are extremly frowned upon. (So, sorry for my bad english.) A
cat without claws is not a cat - it's no longer a masterpiece produced by
nature. Don't you know, that it's very important for cats to have more
dimensions like the floor and a handful furniture to jump on? How can she
reach this dimensions without claws? Here everyone has enough stuff for a
cat to let her a cat - things where she can scratch on und can climb to. If
you want a sweet animal that never touches your furniture and doesen't need
time for education - please have a look here: www.steiff.com
All what you say sounds like playing god and burnt your fingers. You gave
the order - you are responsible for everything what happened.
My deepest sympathy is with your little baby. Take this as a chance to do
somethings against this senseless work - it would be in your cat's mind.
PS: If you want to curse me - please use easy words. Asshole or "Fuck You"
are things I can understand.....
Greetings,
Anna-Maria
> Aside from being completely heartbroken, I need to know since some
> people have started telling me that it sounds possibly more like
> incompetence.
>
> I know it won't bring my babygirl back, but I need some opinions...
>
> She was 3, and the only reason we decided to get her declawed was
> because we had tried almost every other type of training/alternative to
> keep it from furniture. Trust me when I say she could have all the
> furniture if she could come back...
>
> At any rate, we paid to get the laser surgery because we wanted it to be
> as painless as possible, and paid to have her blood tested.
>
> The vet said basically that the surgery went according to protocol until
> they went to reviver her. She wouldn't respond. Then 3 different
> people tried to inject epinephrine into her heart, but that she must
> have had a small heart because they couldn't find it. This was at a
> supposed cat specialist clinic as well... we thought she was as safe as
> could be...
>
> It makes no sense, we adopted her from the Humane Society when she was
> 10 months old, and she had been spayed there. Ours does a good job, but
> they don't strike me as the type that would check a cat's heart size in
> order to get them spayed.
>
> I would especially appreciate any veterinarians to respond to this post.
>
> I know it won't bring her back, but if it sounds like they may have done
> something wrong I will be seriously pissed off!
>
> I just want my girl back. I know she can't, but... you know. :-(
>
> --Matt
tsr3
I do not agree with declawing cats--for the reasons you state--and I
feel it is a mutilation of the animal.
I do not agree, and am disgusted, however, with the way some of the
folks in this newsgroup responded to XeNO. His response to Niel
Humphreys looked to me like he is dealing with a lot more problems than
a deceased cat. XeNO sounds extremely depressed to me. I just hope
the callous responses by some people in this thread didn't send this
guy over the edge (ie. suicide).--becky
Phil P.
"Beth" <Beth_6...@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:z85Ge.1274$aT1...@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com...
> Awe, I'm so sorry. I did have my kitty's front paws declawed when she got
> spayed at 6 months.
Oh, so your cat didn't even have a scratching problem??? You didn't even
*try* to teach your cat about scratching post. And you wonder why us
anti-declawers- the "Claw Conservatives" react to bitterly to declawers.
And while many disagree with it, and I myself now feel
> a little guilty about it, my kitty is perfectly ok with it.
You think so, huh? Are you another pet psychic? Behaviorists and
biologists who have been studying cats for decades still don't completely
understand a cat's mind- but you can?
People on here
> will tell you that cats who are declawed tend to be more vicious and bite
> because they lost a defense. My kitty is ok and let's me hold her little
> front paws and pet them just like I did before. So don't let other
people's
> opinions about that add to your guilty feeling.
Whether or not the cat develops behavioral problems after declawing *is not*
the primary issue! Cats *enjoy* scratching- it *feels good*- its been
hardwired into their neurocircuits for thousands of years. Declawing a cat
*deprives* her of one her greatest pleasures and one of the few pleasures
she has left.
Empathy and compassion are like rhythm- either you have it or your don't.
That's why you can't understand our vehement opposition to declawing.
Beth
"Phil P." <ph...@maxshouse.com> wrote in message
news:OoWdnbPNVtG...@giganews.com...
>realize that not everyone shares their opinion. And who said she didn't
>have a scratching problem? For your information, she has a scratching
>post...which she used before and still does now. I also have a coffee
>table which has 5 long scratch marks, a rip in a leather barstool chair, 2
>long scratches on a shelf...which she knocked down and caused me to
>practice my spackle and rehanging skills. And she did all that prior to
>the declawing. She also liked to hang upside down under my couch and "run"
>all along the underneath part of it and tore up the lining. She had loud
>claps and "no" to stop her, she had spray bottle squirts of water...she
>just likes to get into things. At any rate, when her claws were getting
>longer she started causing more damage. And in order for me to even have
>her, my apartment building requires that they be declawed. She is declawed
>in the front only and yes...she is my cat I know she is a happy cat. She's
>playful and bouncy and comes and lays on me and gives me her little paws to
>rub just like she did before. She even lets me clip her back claws without
>a fit at least 90% of the time. Was it a fun thing for her? no. I know
>that. But I also know that no matter how nasty anyone is on here and goes
>on and on about it...the debate will never be over. So get over it. You
>do what you choose to do with your cats and so will everyone else.
>Butterscotch is pampered beyond belief, has all of her shots and flea
>medicines on time, has her teeth taken care of, is brushed regularly, and
>has more than enough toys to pounce on...which she does at least 20 times
>a day. So yes, as far as she is concerned...she is ok. So get off your
>soapbox...you're not changing anyone's opinion.
shortfuse
Thanks,Beth...I agree with you, even though we may be a rare breed. We
should be able to agree disagree.
shortfuse
>
> Thanks,Beth...I agree with you, even though we may be a rare breed. We
>
Beth
never agree and there's no need to be nasty about it.
Beth
educator experience moron. That's me. If I lived in another country, yeah,
I'd probably think differently. But I don't. And yeah...my teacher salary
really helps me keep up my prima donna life style. You should see all of
the lavish things I have and all of the people banging down my door to get a
glimpse of the ever-prefect-me. You don't live in my building...you don't
know what the policy is. $300 deposit and $25 a month and must be declawed
is the rule, not the beginning of negotiations. You claim to know all sorts
of personal character traits about me. I won't stoop down to the name
calling level. But I will give you every blessing to continue to bash me.
I love my cat and enjoy taking care of her and she loves me too. So you
have your opinion. I'm done listening to and replying to someone who has is
about as self-centered and practiced at name calling as my middle school
students. Unfortunately for you, that's completely and expected behavior
for 12 year olds. I hope your "I'm the only person who knows what is best
for all animal kind and anyone who has a different opinion or does anything
I see as wrong is evil" campaign works out for you. Have fun tearing this
post apart, but just know I won't be bothering to reply to it.
Beth
Sneekers
<ad...@sznzozwzdzoznzczozmzpzuztzezrzsz.co.uk> wrote:
>"XeNO" <xeno...@nospam.cox.net> wrote in message
>news:7YZFe.1302$mu6.1025@okepread04...
>> Aside from being completely heartbroken, I need to know since some people
>> have started telling me that it sounds possibly more like incompetence.
>>
>> I know it won't bring my babygirl back, but I need some opinions...
>
>
>The only incompetence here is on your part getting your cat mutiliated.
That's completely unnecessary.
>I doubt you will find many people in here sympathetic to your cause enough to offer advice.
It's not his/her fault the cat did not respond well to anaesthesia.
Had they known the cat's precarious health situation (the heart
problem)before the surgery I'm sure they'd have not permitted the cat
to undergo this surgery.
>The only sympathy I have is to your poor kitty who paid the ultimate price
>for your vanity.
I'd not declaw my cat, either, because their claws are one of the very
few defenses they have--but to blame the poster for something that was
out of their control is irresponsible.
>If you didn't want a pet with claws you should have got a
>fucking goldfish.
Sneekers
[...]
>Question, is cutting out the genitals of a cat any less cruel? There
>certainly are less extreme measures to prevent cats from breeding but
>most people recommend cutting away the organs of the cat instead. Are
>your cats spayed/neutered? I'm not against it, I just understand that
>each person has their own views on the subject.
My Julia is not yet spayed--but I have made an appointment for her to
have the procedure performed because in the long run, it saves litters
of kittens from being homeless (and from risking her
health)...unfortunately at the price of Julia's reproductive organs.
Sneekers
wrote:
>
>"Roberta Bagshaw" <rbag...@midwest.com.au> wrote in message
>news:42e8...@quokka.wn.com.au...
>> Hi Xeno
>>
>> Every operation of any kind where anaesthesia is used carries a risk.
>
>
>True. But it must hurt a lot more when the surgery was unnecessary
The death was unnecessary.
>and wouldn't have provided any medical or psychological benefit for the cat.
True, but the poster did what they thought was proper in their
situation. If it wasn't then the cat had passed, it might have been
for something else.
>The guilt would haunt me for the rest of my life.
The poster may do things differently in the future.
Sneekers
wrote:
> > I suppose our next cat will also have to have his
>> claws removed.
>
>I can't for the life of me undertstand why people can't
>spend a couple of bucks and 5 minutes every couple of weeks
>instead of this de-clawing nonsense. Just buy a pair of nail
>clippers and cut the tips of the claws off. No furniture
>damage and more importantly, no cat mutilation.
I put carpeting around the base of my furniture. It's ugly as hell,
but it works for me.
Sneekers
wrote:
>Aside from being completely heartbroken, I need to know since some
>people have started telling me that it sounds possibly more like
>incompetence.
>
>I know it won't bring my babygirl back, but I need some opinions...
>
>She was 3, and the only reason we decided to get her declawed was
>because we had tried almost every other type of training/alternative to
>keep it from furniture. Trust me when I say she could have all the
>furniture if she could come back...
>
>At any rate, we paid to get the laser surgery because we wanted it to be
>as painless as possible, and paid to have her blood tested.
>
>The vet said basically that the surgery went according to protocol until
>they went to reviver her. She wouldn't respond. Then 3 different
>people tried to inject epinephrine into her heart, but that she must
>have had a small heart because they couldn't find it. This was at a
>supposed cat specialist clinic as well... we thought she was as safe as
>could be...
>
>It makes no sense, we adopted her from the Humane Society when she was
>10 months old, and she had been spayed there. Ours does a good job, but
>they don't strike me as the type that would check a cat's heart size in
>order to get them spayed.
>
>I would especially appreciate any veterinarians to respond to this post.
>
>I know it won't bring her back, but if it sounds like they may have done
>something wrong I will be seriously pissed off!
>
>I just want my girl back. I know she can't, but... you know. :-(
>
>--Matt
Matt,
There isn't anything you could have done--and should have's don't
help.
I believe that you did what you thought was proper in your particular
situation.
It's one of those situations, that either way, it could not have been
prevented. I believe the inevitability of your beloved's death was
there, given her precarious health situation of which you only
discovered post-mortem.
I know you're looking for a Vet.'s professional opinion, here (you're
not likely to get it) --but speaking of pet owners who lost their pets
so randomly, I, for one, want to let you know it isn't your fault your
cat died, contrary to what a few posters might have speculated
earlier.
I'm not sure if this is going to be of any useful health, but the
web-site links, posted below, looks like a good start for your
answers.
Best wishes,
--Sneeks
(There are a myriad of these "advice" sites online; use your judgement
as to which is best.)
Ivor Jones
"Sneekers" <coadvi...@mail.com> wrote in message
news:s1iqe15tokooe6g1p...@4ax.com...
[snip]
> I'd not declaw my cat, either, because their claws are one of the very
> few defenses they have--but to blame the poster for something that was
> out of their control is irresponsible.
Making the decision to allow their cat to be mutilated *was* within their
control. Don't get sidetracked by the anasthaesia issue, it's not
relevant; the cat could have undergone *necessary* surgery and still
succumbed.
In my opinion, and that of any decent person if you ask me, *any*
medical/surgical procedure carried out purely for convenience and not for
medical necessity is irresponsible at best and criminal at worst.
Ivor
mlab...@yahoo.co.uk
back garden where he can't escape) stlil chooses to scartch the
furniture (behind my back, he knows its not allowed) - he has a
scratching post which he also uses. He's 16 now and I adore him, I
would never have subjected him to mutilation, even if it was legal
here, in fact until a few weeks ago I'd never even heard of declawing,
and it sickened me. If you don't want scratched furniture, either keep
them out of the room with your bloody precious furniture in it, or
don't get a cat. Dogs have masters, cats have slaves.
Sneekers
<iv...@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>
>"Sneekers" <coadvi...@mail.com> wrote in message
>news:s1iqe15tokooe6g1p...@4ax.com...
>
>[snip]
>
>> I'd not declaw my cat, either, because their claws are one of the very
>> few defenses they have--but to blame the poster for something that was
>> out of their control is irresponsible.
>
>Making the decision to allow their cat to be mutilated
Mutilated is a matter of opinion.
>*was* within their
>control.
The death of their cat wasn't. It'd have been the same result
if she had another surgery or if she had done something else with a
similar stressor.
>Don't get sidetracked by the anasthaesia issue, it's not
>relevant;
It's completely relevant to what the poster is attempting to find.
>the cat could have undergone *necessary* surgery and still
>succumbed.
Whether it's necessary or not, it's not relevant as to why the cat
died--chances are good the cat would have had something else done and
succumbed to that.
>
>In my opinion, and that of any decent person
Icky people sometimes stand by the *right* side of the fence.
>if you ask me, *any*
>medical/surgical procedure carried out purely for convenience and not for
>medical necessity is irresponsible at best and criminal at worst.
But that's not the issue here. But I have forwarded your concern to a
relevant newsgroup: alt.cats.declawing-debate
>Ivor
>
Phil P.
> On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 23:21:27 +0100, "Ivor Jones"
> <iv...@despammed.invalid> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Sneekers" <coadvi...@mail.com> wrote in message
> >news:s1iqe15tokooe6g1p...@4ax.com...
> >
> >[snip]
> >
> >> I'd not declaw my cat, either, because their claws are one of the very
> >> few defenses they have--but to blame the poster for something that was
> >> out of their control is irresponsible.
> >
> >Making the decision to allow their cat to be mutilated
>
> Mutilated is a matter of opinion.
No, mutilation is a matter of *fact*:
mu暗i損ate: verb, transitive mu暗i損at搪d, mu暗i損at搏ng, mu暗i損ates
1. To deprive of a limb or an essential part; cripple.
2. To disfigure by damaging irreparably:
3. To make imperfect by excising or altering parts.
[Latin mutilare, mutilat-, from mutilus, maimed.]
Dr. Nicholas Dodman, Professor of Behavioral Pharmacology and Director of
the Behavior Clinic at Tufts University School of Veterinary Medicine and
internationally known specialist in domestic animal behavioral research,
explains declawing perfectly:
"The inhumanity of the procedure is clearly demonstrated by the nature of
cats' recovery from anesthesia following the surgery. Unlike routine
recoveries, including recovery from neutering surgeries, which are fairly
peaceful, declawing surgery results in cats bouncing off the walls of the
recovery cage because of excruciating pain. Cats that are more stoic huddle
in the corner of the recovery cage, immobilized in a state of helplessness,
presumably by overwhelming pain. Declawing fits the dictionary definition of
mutilation to a tee. Words such as deform, disfigure, disjoint, and
dismember all apply to this surgery. Partial digital amputation is so
horrible that it has been employed for torture of prisoners of war, and in
veterinary medicine, the clinical procedure serves as model of severe pain
for testing the efficacy of analgesic drugs. Even though analgesic drugs can
be used postoperatively, they rarely are, and their effects are incomplete
and transient anyway, so sooner or later the pain will emerge."
Phil P.
> On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 09:10:14 -0400, "Phil P." <ph...@maxshouse.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Roberta Bagshaw" <rbag...@midwest.com.au> wrote in message
> >news:42e8...@quokka.wn.com.au...
> >> Hi Xeno
> >>
> >> Every operation of any kind where anaesthesia is used carries a risk.
> >
> >
> >True. But it must hurt a lot more when the surgery was unnecessary
>
> The death was unnecessary.
The surgery was unnecessary because it has no medical benefit for the cat.
Subjecting a cat to surgical and anesthetic risks for necessary surgeries is
bad enough, but subjecting a cat to these risks for an unnecessary surgery
and personal convenience is unconscionable.
>
> >and wouldn't have provided any medical or psychological benefit for the
cat.
>
> True, but the poster did what they thought was proper in their
> situation. If it wasn't then the cat had passed, it might have been
> for something else.
Perhaps kidney or liver failure in about 15-20 years.
>
> >The guilt would haunt me for the rest of my life.
>
> The poster may do things differently in the future.
I sure hope so. To bad his cat had to pay for his education with her life.
Sneekers
wrote:
Thank you for the noted opinions.
Phil P.
She'll be a much healthier and happier cat. You're sparing her from a
lifetime of stress and discomfort from repeated unanswered heats. Not to
mention deadly diseases such as pyometra, mammary, uterine, and ovarian
cancers. Also, neutered females are calmer, more playful, friendlier to
other household cats and tolerate handling better than intact females.
You're not only doing the best thing for her- you're doing the best thing
for the feline species in general. For every kitten she doesn't have, and
every kitten her kittens' kittens don't have, and their kittens don't have,
a shelter cat on death row might have home and a chance at life that she
wouldn't have had.
Sneekers
wrote:
>
>"Sneekers" <coadvi...@mail.com> wrote in message
>news:vfiqe1hr5qbu7eqkj...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 09:10:14 -0400, "Phil P." <ph...@maxshouse.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"Roberta Bagshaw" <rbag...@midwest.com.au> wrote in message
>> >news:42e8...@quokka.wn.com.au...
>> >> Hi Xeno
>> >>
>> >> Every operation of any kind where anaesthesia is used carries a risk.
>> >
>> >
>> >True. But it must hurt a lot more when the surgery was unnecessary
>>
>> The death was unnecessary.
>
>
>The surgery was unnecessary because it has no medical benefit for the cat.
I agree with as much; however, it didn't contribute to the cat's
death.
>Subjecting a cat to surgical and anesthetic risks for necessary surgeries is
>bad enough, but subjecting a cat to these risks for an unnecessary surgery
>and personal convenience is unconscionable.
Indeed--but the cat would have died, anyway.
>>
>> >and wouldn't have provided any medical or psychological benefit for the
>cat.
>>
>> True, but the poster did what they thought was proper in their
>> situation. If it wasn't then the cat had passed, it might have been
>> for something else.
>
>Perhaps kidney or liver failure in about 15-20 years.
Not a chance with her heart.
>
>>
>> >The guilt would haunt me for the rest of my life.
>>
>> The poster may do things differently in the future.
>
>I sure hope so. To bad his cat had to pay for his education with her life.
We all benefit from the death of somebody or something...
>
>