Amitriptyline? Cats with Litter problems?
konengro
> I have a 2 year old longhair male who's been fixed since he was about 6
> months old. Ever since I can remember he has been peeing on
> everything....couch.. loveseat.. piles of dirty clothes. He completely
> ruined both couch and loveseat, even 3 bottles of natures miracle (the
> largest ones they make) and a proffessional upholstry cleaning could not
> rid the smell. Yes, I've taken him to the vet 3 times for this reason and
> his u.t.i. tests come out clean.. and when they test for that they also
> check for crystals in the cats urine.. both of these test clean. I
> recently took him to the vet on the 1st of this month for the same reason.
> I explained to the doctor what was going on, and that it seemed that he had
> been doing it more since I went from working second shift to working first
> shift.. but all the same he sometimes peed on furniture.. not always cuz i
> clean his litter once a week and I know he uses it sometimes. The doctor
> told me that it could possibly be seperation anxiety??! or lack of a
> companion etc. Trust me.. the cat gets plenty of attention from me and my
> girlfriend. We love playing around with him, and the floor is littered
> with fuzzy toy mice.. catnip toys and toy balls. So this doctor prescribes
> to my cat max a drug called Amitriptyline. She said it will mellow him out
> and it was the equivilant to a kitty prozac. Well I gave it to him and
> noticed he was quite sedated not even 5 minutes after taking the pill. His
> whole mood shifted. I called the vet because I didnt like the effects,
> they said it was normal. So, that was the last time I gave him the pill.
> I then took a gamble. I bought another litter pan and placed it in a
> different room. He continued peeing on furniture, ruining a couch in the
> room I placed the second litter box. I then furthered the gamble by
> getting a kitten as a companion. Things went great. 2 hours after
> bringing him home my cat would role over submissively and let the kitten
> pounce on him.. he was cleaning the kitten by the end of the night and he
> wouldnt let him out of his site. Wellllll... to shorten the story, hes
> still peeing on things.. mainly the same couch he ruined with the new
> litter pan. Now, I'm debating on using the drug Amitriptyline as bad as I
> hate to. If anyone here has any feedback on ANY or all of this post..
> please let me know. If you have used the drug with your cat I would like
> to know for what reason and what the results where. One more thing, the
> vet said the use of the drug is temporary. Its just to get his mood back
> to "normal" until he starts using and rediscovers the litter pan as a place
> to pee, then I can take him off. If there are any other solutions for my
> cats problem, please......let me know? This is pretty urgent, so if you
> would like to email me my address is cs...@hiwaay.net
> I just ask you post your email to me to this newsgroup for everyone else to
> read. Thanks to a well informed group
Chris-
Your cat has been peeing on stuff for two years. Two years. I can
pretty much tell you a sofa that's peed on for two years is going to
serve better as flower bedding than furniture.
You clean his litter box once a week? Once?
The last time at the vet, you told the vet he was doing it more since
you changed shifts. Didn't this tell you anything? You insist you give
him lots of attention, but he misbehaves when you change shifts. Doesn't
that suggest something to you? Is your cat smarter than you? Are you
paying attention here?
You got another litter pan, and you call it a gamble? Why? Why did you
wait so long? What other things have you tried?
The vet prescribe amitriptylene. You try it once; after five minutes
(it takes longer than that for drugs to be absorbed) you say his whole
mood shifted. You didn't discuss contraindications with the vet, or
research what is a relatively benign drug. You stopped using it, even
though the vet explained it was a temporary course of medication for
what may well be some sort of anxiety-related behavior. Why?
After two years, why is it urgent?
What is this cat's name? How is the kitten doing? What's his name?
Are you a troll?
There's something about this account that really doesn't quite make
sense to me. Frankly, you don't seem too interested in this critter.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but if you won't take your vet's
advice, why are you asking strangers who are ultimately not responsible
for what they tell you?
First, throw out the pissed up furniture. After two years, you're not
going to get the odor out of it.
Second, go to the library and get several books on cat behavior. Read
them. Give your cat a name and hang out with him. Observe him. Make him
important in your life.
Third, listen to your vet.
Cats behave consistently, and they do things, even bad things, for a
reason. If you invest the time and patience in your cat to discover why
he's doing this stuff, you're not only going to save future furniture,
you're going to have a real surprise when you find out how intelligent
and responsive your cat really is.
Regards,
--
Paul F. Hoff Milton, WA kone...@worldnet.att.net
*Stutsbear and the Bionic Busboy* Lithodendron, 1996
http://home.att.net/~konengro/stories.htm
Tim Haines
has generally been surpassed by different families such as SSRI's [e.g.
Prozac] nowadays). It is called 'Tryptizol' in the UK, and I believe
'Elavil' in the US.
As well as a treatment for depression, it is also used to treat
hyperactivity in children (or at least was back in the seventies, I rather
hope such barbarity has ceased), and also to treat nocturnal enuresis
(bedwetting) - hence your vet's (to me surprising) idea to use it on your
cat and his peeing problems.
It is quite strongly sedative, especially during the first couple of weeks
of use.
What dose has the vet given your cat? Frankly I find it scary that your cat
appeared sedated within minutes of taking this drug - human dosages start at
10mg/day, for a six year old child, and this particular substance usually
takes about two hours for its sedative effects to show up in normal doses.
The full list of side effects, contraindications and adverse reactions is
too long to give in full here
(
Also, be aware that unless it is swallowed 'right down' (hard to ensure in a cat) it causes an unpleasant burning sensation in the throat.
I am neither a vet nor a medic, but I wouldn't give this stuff to my cats.
Chris <Sa...@buzz.org> wrote in message news:37e2dd2d...@news.hiwaay.net...
> ~chris
Chris
two years as far as his visits. etc. I dont appreciate your response to my
post nor the guilt trip. I did NOT wait for two years to decide to do
something. The vet knows as well as I do the troubles Ive had so they
prescribed this drug to try. If you had READ my post you would have seen
that I did in FACT call the vet on his behavior change. And yes, it was
after 5 minutes. If you had ever seen a sedated animal, the wobbliness in
their legs is somewhat of a clue, no?? Its been an urgent issue since day
one and very upsetting. Trust me, the couch and loveseat are being
replaced by Heilig Meyers because of their miracle guard warranty. I got
lucky there. No, this isnt my first post to this news group on this
issue. My post stated this time that I was looking for people with advice
on the issue at hand which is the drug prescribed. Have you tried this
with your cat? I dont see you mention this, only what a bad person I am.
Next time Ill remember to include my cats life history in binary format for
you to view so you cant chop my post up into little bits and create your
own scenerio on how my cat was "mistreated" his whole life. His name is
Max by the way, who is sitting in my lap as I type this. Again, had YOU
payed attention to my post you may have seen that mentioned a couple times.
As far as the kitten goes..his name is seymour and is doing fine. Havn't
caught him peeing on anything yet. Although hes sure to learn quickly from
the adult. But this post isn't about the kitten, maybe I'll install my
webcam next week so you can watch me care for my pets. Thats about all I
have to say on this matter. People dont appreciate these kinds of
responses from mere strangers as you put it. Pay attention to peoples
feelings and after all read their posts completely before whipping out the
blow torch. Now if you excuse me, this troll has a bridge to crawl under.
P.s Thanks Tim Haines for you email on the drug. I will post it for the
rest of the group to read.
~Chris
On Sat, 18 Sep 1999 00:34:49 -0700, konengro <kone...@worldnet.att.net>
wrote:
Chris
makes newsgroups so good.
Your input was also disturbing to a degree. You said the human dosage
starts at 10 mg/day? Well, my cat weighs around 10 pounds and they have
him on a 5mg/day dosage. This doesnt seem right. These pills are 10mg cut
in half. No wonder it seemed a little strong for him, no? I wonder If I
should cut his dosage in half or just go with what the vet prescribed,
after all Im no doctor and she should know whats best. I also wonder if
possibly this is a variation of the human equivilant and the 10mg isn't as
strong as the human kind? I know I wrote that his mood shifted 5 minutes
after I gave him the pill, and I also know that pills need to be digested
and into the bloodstream before they start to work. This is why I called
the vet. My cat sat on the floor when he usually jumps to the counter top
while I make my lunch in the morning..staring at me. His legs started to
wobble and he got the classic "glazed over" look cats get when theyre
sedated. I called the vet and she told me it was normal for the first few
times. But I didnt like it. The rest of the day he seemed a little
strange, he slept a lot and didnt come out to visit us too much. He
wouldnt play at all. I decided not to give it to him and just take my
chances, I bought a second litter box. It didnt work. I realize also I
should have had two boxes to begin with, but Ive had 3 cats in my life
time..one is still alive (19 years old at my parents house) one other lived
to be 21.. and only one of those cats needed two litter boxes.
I just finished cleaning the couch padding completely with a hose. Its a
fouton so i just pulled the whole thing outside, poured some vinegar and
laundry detergent..soaked both sides through this way..scrubbed it with
carnuba pet stain remover and finally poured some enzyme called OUT! on it.
I think Im going to try just laying paper or plastic down on the furniture
and calling the vet to find out more about the drug I was given. Even
though she was vague. Thanks again, you were a great help. :D
chris
On Sat, 18 Sep 1999 09:50:06 +0100, "Tim Haines"
<t...@pennyblack.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>Amitryptyline is a human antidepressant of the 'tricyclic' variety (which
>has generally been surpassed by different families such as SSRI's [e.g.
>Prozac] nowadays). It is called 'Tryptizol' in the UK, and I believe
>'Elavil' in the US.
>
>As well as a treatment for depression, it is also used to treat
>hyperactivity in children (or at least was back in the seventies, I rather
>hope such barbarity has ceased), and also to treat nocturnal enuresis
>(bedwetting) - hence your vet's (to me surprising) idea to use it on your
>cat and his peeing problems.
>
>It is quite strongly sedative, especially during the first couple of weeks
>of use.
>
>What dose has the vet given your cat? Frankly I find it scary that your cat
>appeared sedated within minutes of taking this drug - human dosages start at
>10mg/day, for a six year old child, and this particular substance usually
>takes about two hours for its sedative effects to show up in normal doses.
>The full list of side effects, contraindications and adverse reactions is
>too long to give in full here
>(
>
>Also, be aware that unless it is swallowed 'right down' (hard to ensure in a cat) it causes an unpleasant burning sensation in the throat.
>
>I am neither a vet nor a medic, but I wouldn't give this stuff to my cats.
>
>
>Chris <Sa...@buzz.org> wrote in message news:37e2dd2d...@news.hiwaay.net...
>> ~chris
>
E. M. Wilson
I have an eight year old male that has been having an on and off again
urinary problem since February. We've been to the vet too many times to
count and tried just about everything. For some reason, he has blood in his
urine. No cystitis, etc. We've got him on the special wet food (UR) from
Purina and give him Cocequin with his food each day.
We've tried everything to clear up his problem and next will be sending him
up to UC Davis vet school. But the vet did indicate that there has been
some information regarding Amitripyline. There haven't been any studies
conducted yet, but there seems to be some anectdotal evidence that
Amitripyline might help urinary tract problems. So, we're trying one last
thing before resorting to a biopsy.
I give him one half pill at bedtime. It's a 5mg dose. Initially, first day
or two, he seemed rather sedated, but never wobbly on his legs. By the way,
he's an 11 pound cat. It's been two weeks and we go in for our follow up
appointment next week. So far, I can't see any improvement in his
situation.
As for his litterboxes:
Obviously, the medical problem needs to be cleaned up before you can work on
behavioral problems. But it's important to both make the litterbox area
very attractive to the cat and make the inappropriate area unattractive.
My cat, like others, is really picky about his litter box. It has to be
immaculate, so I have four boxes for him (two for each story) and l clean
them each day. Also, make sure that you clean them with plain soap and
water. The cats don't like the smell of some cleaners. I also have learned
what type of litter he likes by experiment: sandy and unscented. If you
are experimenting with litters, make sure you give the cat an option so you
can figure out what he likes.
As for the areas where he has peed, I've treated them with Nature's
Miracle - short term solution and then had the carpet clean, deodorized and
the padding replaced. I've also blocked him from the area so he can't get
there.
As others will tell you, cats hate change, so make sure that you make things
attractive in the cat's view, but don't try to change a whole bunch of stuff
at once. That could set the cat off and if it works, you may not be able to
figure out what worked! Good luck and I hope this helps you. Erin
konengro
>
> First of all, you don't know what I've been through with this cat the past
Amitriptyline has been remarkably effective in the treatment of FUS and
related problems. Beyond its antidepressant activity (which actually is
a human reaction; in cats this seems to be manifested as soporific
activity.) it is a muscle relaxant. In cats with urinary crystals,
spasms in the bladder and urinary sphincter aggravate the problem, and
amitrip- is effective with the spasms as well.
Amitriptyline used for symptomatic relief of feline urologic problems
is pretty cutting edge; your vet is to be commended for staying up to
date. You really ought to follow her advice.
Tim is accurate in describing the drug, but it is relatively harmless
compared to, say, steroids. Are you going to listen to Tim (sorry, Tim!
No offense.) or are you going to listen to a professional who knows what
Tim told you, and is using the stuff responsibly?
Chris, Max is behaving consistently within the context of being Max the
cat. His behavior has reasons. I may have misjudged you. I certainly
hope so. Your posts (both of them) suggest that you're flying off the
handle rather than dealing effectively with this problem. Neither of
your posts contained enough information to offer significant advice;
mostly you complained about the damage and the things that have failed.
After two years of peeing on furniture, Max isn't misbehaving. He's
simply doing something he's always done. It's not a problem with him; by
now its simple habit. The problem- and your posts certainly demonstrate
it- is that you've failed to understand what's going on with him. After
two years, you should know.
Posting your cat's life would in fact be useful. When does he pee on
furniture? Is there a context that provokes it, such as your leaving for
work? Does he do it in front of you, or try to conceal the behavior?
Where does he pee, exactly? The same place, or at random? Different
rooms? How do you react? What sort of strategies have you employed to
change his behavior? How effective were they? How did he react to your
strategies? Observe Max. He's acting consistently, and his actions are
motivated. Discover the motivation.
I don't think you mistreat Max, but you certainly misunderstand him. If
the peeing is simple habit, for instance, getting him a companion is not
going to help. If it's anxiety-related, what is provoking it? Even at
that, an anxiety-provoked behavior may have become simple habit after so
long. It may be associative marking; if you'd researched this sort of
behavior, you'd know what that is. You'd have a little insight, and
possibly a strategy.
As I said earlier, observe Max. Read and learn about cats. Use those
insights to get Max on track. I probably am being tough on you, Chris,
and if you want to be mad at me, fine. Go to the library and get some
books on cats. Read them with Max on your lap. When two books agree on
an issue, consider it; when three do, consider it fact. When you figure
it out, you can thumb your nose at me.
Lastly, hold off on the new furniture until you get a handle on this.
It'll save you even more frustration.
konengro
>
> First of all, you don't know what I've been through with this cat the past
> two years as far as his visits. etc. I dont appreciate your response to my
> post nor the guilt trip. I did NOT wait for two years to decide to do
> something.
konengro
>
> konengro <kone...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:37E433...@worldnet.att.net...
> > Chris wrote:
> > >
> > > First of all, you don't know what I've been through with this cat the
> past
> >
> > related problems. Beyond its antidepressant activity (which actually is
> > a human reaction; in cats this seems to be manifested as soporific
> > activity.) it is a muscle relaxant. In cats with urinary crystals,
> > spasms in the bladder and urinary sphincter aggravate the problem, and
> > amitrip- is effective with the spasms as well.
> > Amitriptyline used for symptomatic relief of feline urologic problems
> > is pretty cutting edge; your vet is to be commended for staying up to
> > date. You really ought to follow her advice.
> > Tim is accurate in describing the drug, but it is relatively harmless
> > compared to, say, steroids. Are you going to listen to Tim (sorry, Tim!
> > No offense.) or are you going to listen to a professional who knows what
> > Tim told you, and is using the stuff responsibly?
>
> you're pretty good on both pee probs. and medications and in fact clipped
> out a sentence asking if you had some input just before I posted. Seems to
> be some trouble with my server caused me to miss your last post (?) (Found
> it attached to end of Chris's reply)
I'm relieved you're not annoyed. I hope Chris isn't as well. I really
was pretty tough on him.
We used amitrip. on our Jabba, who has recurring urinary problems
because there are some congenital abnormalities. Discussed it (the
amitrip) with the vet extensively, because I had the same misgivings as
Chris. Sorry, Chris. I should have said as much. Used it three times on
Jabba; twice for FUS, and once for a kidney stone. Tweaked the dose the
first time, since she did get dopey, but it definitely benefitted her.
E. M. Wilson
if we can, but it looks like we'll be doing that this week.
>E.M. - don't waste your time with amitryptaline, you need to find out what
>is causing your cat's real physical (i.e. not psychological) problem. The
>delay whilst you try to treat your cat for a problem which he probably
>doesn't have (i.e. depression) could cause further deterioration in his
>health.
>
newsgroup
have back surgery.
>Amitryptyline is a human antidepressant of the 'tricyclic' variety (which
>has generally been surpassed by different families such as SSRI's [e.g.
>Prozac] nowadays). It is called 'Tryptizol' in the UK, and I believe
>'Elavil' in the US.
>
>As well as a treatment for depression, it is also used to treat
>hyperactivity in children (or at least was back in the seventies, I rather
>hope such barbarity has ceased), and also to treat nocturnal enuresis
>(bedwetting) - hence your vet's (to me surprising) idea to use it on your
>cat and his peeing problems.
>
>It is quite strongly sedative, especially during the first couple of weeks
>of use.
Yes but after the first few days you get used to it. And it makes you sleep
a lot.
Tim Haines
against bedwetting in children is a psychological one: 'depressed' child
seeks attention (albeit subconsciously) by wetting bed, amitryptaline
elevates mood and calms child, attention seeking behaviour is reduced /
eliminated.
Seems more than a bit of a leap to me to suggest that amitryptaline would
help with 'urinary tract problems' in cats.
The mechanism of this drug would *have* to be psychological: to the best of
my knowledge there's no suggestion that amitryptaline can help with
incontinence, that's quite a different matter to enuresis.
Chris - what has upset your cat in the first place? Is he trying to tell
you something? When my Percy peed on my favourite leather jacket (some will
remember this....), she was trying to tell me that she didn't like moving to
a new home which she had to share with two more cats.
E.M. - don't waste your time with amitryptaline, you need to find out what
is causing your cat's real physical (i.e. not psychological) problem. The
delay whilst you try to treat your cat for a problem which he probably
doesn't have (i.e. depression) could cause further deterioration in his
health.
>So far, I can't see any improvement in his situation.
You said it.....
I should also add that the effects of amitryptaline are cumulative (at least
in humans) and the antidepressant qualities do not become apparent for at
least two to three weeks after commencing regular use , (i.e. [Possibly
coincidentally] as the sedative effect wears off)
E. M. Wilson <emwi...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:7s11ld$etc$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net...
Tim Haines
server. Have you crossposted to other cat groups?
Chris <Sa...@buzz.org> wrote in message
news:37e3b95f...@news.hiwaay.net...
Tim Haines
konengro <kone...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:37E433...@worldnet.att.net...
> Chris wrote:
> >
past
>
Eileen
> The problem- and your posts certainly demonstrate
> it- is that you've failed to understand what's going on with him. After
> two years, you should know.
> I don't think you mistreat Max, but you certainly misunderstand him. If
> the peeing is simple habit, for instance, getting him a companion is not
> going to help. If it's anxiety-related, what is provoking it? Even at
> that, an anxiety-provoked behavior may have become simple habit after so
> long. It may be associative marking; if you'd researched this sort of
> behavior, you'd know what that is. You'd have a little insight, and
> possibly a strategy.
> Lastly, hold off on the new furniture until you get a handle on this.
> It'll save you even more frustration.
I have to say, reading the initial post I had similar impressions
and quite agree with the above post (snips). And would add esp.
in regards to things as basic as having more than one litter box
and simply keeping the litter box clean. Perhaps I also missed
the past posts on this, but I have a hard time seeing how how that
would matter when even very very basic items (mentioned in any article
or book on cat behavior and litter box problems) were overlooked
(or just ignored) for such a long time. And I also wonder how,
again such basic items, were overlooked in several trips to the
vet for inappropriate urination - I can't imagine my vet not
asking somebody those basic questions and providing appropriate
information.
Eileen
zuz...@webtv.net
<The mechanism of this drug would *have* to be psychological: to the
best of my knowledge there's no suggestion that amitryptaline can help
with incontinence, that's quite a different matter to enuresis.>
Amitriptyline is used for cats with urinary tract infections because it
has an anti-inflammatory effect on the bladder and helps reduce
straining,which is painful and can make things worse.My cat Teddy has a
UTI (his second in 4 months) and, along with antibiotics, is on
Amitriptyline. It has made a big difference and he is not nearly as
miserable.
Megan
CynW514
effects in adult patients. Usually Elavil is prescribed for depression with
agitated features, often including weight loss, since Elavil does predispose to
weight gain. It is strongly sedative. Like all the antidepressants I can
think of, tricyclic or any other kind, it takes a while to kick in, three weeks
on the average. It's not that much prescribed for humans since the development
of SSRI antidepressants such as Prozac, Zoloft, and Paxil, which are
nonsedating or almost so. Why does your vet favor this over Prozac? I'm not
being blameful, just curious.
Cats are creatures of incredible routine, and I once had one who hated when I
worked 12-hour shifts. Each and every 12 I worked, I would come home to find
cat poop in front of the mantel. Finally Orange, the cat involved, waited
until I came in the door and squatted and shat in front of me. I will never
forget the literal "shit look" he was giving me, too. Did I quit working 12s?
I did one more-- and Orange waited until I was opening the door, leaped through
my legs, and I have never seen him since, though I heard a lot of stories about
him being seen clear across town and about someone feeding him. Moral: Never
underestimate cat anger! If we don't shape up, they may ship out.
Cynthia Walker (Cyn...@aol.com) the cat comes in on little fog feet
vixen
help send him in the right direction..to the littler box..!!
Chris wrote in message <37e4ce1a...@news.hiwaay.net>...
Chris
You guys/gals in this group have been a great help to me. I wanted to
give a public thanks to konengro and tim haines for their advice to me. Im
glad this thread had such good input from all of you.
At any rate, I believe I will go with the doctors advice and give Max his
medicine. From everyones experience it seems to be the best bet for max.
Also, im taking Konengro's advice and getting some books on cats. As for
my furniture.. I cant really hold off any longer then it takes heilig
meyers to get my order in and deliver it. But, I will be laying down some
type of plastic to discourage him from peeing on anything. Im cleaning
everything up and monitoring everything *again* to see if he targets a new
area.
I hope all you others that are eeking advice in this area find this thread
as usefull as I did.
~Chris
konengro
>
> Konengro - Thanks for bringing me up to date on a subject where I genuinely
> did believe that I knew what I was talking about. Before posting I
> consulted MIMS (Monthly Index of Medical Specialities), 'Textbook of
> Pharmacology' (Kuschinsky & Lullmann) and 'Applied Pharmacology' (Wilson &
> Schild) (all of which I have in my house) to check my facts, just goes to
> show that we can all be wrong (or out of date).
Tim-
You were on the money with the pharmacology; you know more than me in
that respect. My information came straight from the vet's mouth when he
treated Jabba with the stuff. At that time (about a year ago)
amitriptyline hadn't been formally approved for use with cats, though
there had been, as someone mentioned, anecdotal evidence of its
effectiveness. All that goes to say that for a vet to use the stuff,
he'd have to be reading more than just the trade journals.
Chris-
I jerked your chain here, so let me apologize here as well. You emailed
me privately about Max, and I'll chew on what you said and get back by
email. I got the impression from your post that you didn't understand
the issues around Max's behavior, and I was rude for that. It's clear
from what you told me privately that you simply didn't post at length. I
should, as you said, be a little considerate of people's feelings, and I
wasn't that with you. I'm sorry. As Tim said, I hope you stick around.
It's quite a group, and most of the folks here are pretty decent.
Tim Haines
that I am not a vet or a medic, and was simply giving the best of my
knowledge, in good faith.
It just goes to show that you should always check what you read on Usenet!
I'm glad to hear that you have decided to stick with us - despite the odd
fight (especially about dec***ing ;-) we're generally a very friendly bunch
here. I've been scared off other newsgroups myself by the pirrhanas, so I
know how it feels!
Best of luck with Max, and do let us know how things progress. Having
experienced the effects of this substance myself, I would still be worried
about the burning feeling in the throat that it can produce if not properly
swallowed (undocumented to the best of my knowledge) so make sure Max gets
it right down.....
Konengro - Thanks for bringing me up to date on a subject where I genuinely
did believe that I knew what I was talking about. Before posting I
consulted MIMS (Monthly Index of Medical Specialities), 'Textbook of
Pharmacology' (Kuschinsky & Lullmann) and 'Applied Pharmacology' (Wilson &
Schild) (all of which I have in my house) to check my facts, just goes to
show that we can all be wrong (or out of date).
Chris <Sa...@buzz.org> wrote in message
news:37e8b2dd....@news.hiwaay.net...
Chris
prozac or paxal. When those drugs are used, if treatment is ended abruptly
it can cause an even deeper depression and mood swings. I was only given a
months worth for max and was told it was up to me at the end of a month to
continue to use it or not. I dont really understand this. If I end his
medication abruptly, couldnt he end up being more upset then he was to
begin with? I think at two years old, hes too young to take permanent
medication. Its hard for me to monitor him as well. He can go through a
spell of weeks of not urinating on anything..like last night when I was in
the kitchen before I scooped his litter I saw him pee in it. On the other
hand, he can go through a spell of weeks or months of urinating on
everything. Since I took out the fouton for a wash, he hasnt urinated on
anything I've found yet. The other new furniture hasn't arrived yet either
so his scent is still on the living room furniture with no new marks. I am
still going to continue with the medication, 5mg a day treatment. What are
your feelings about ending medication with amitrip?
On Sat, 18 Sep 1999 17:52:26 -0700, konengro <kone...@worldnet.att.net>
wrote:
>Chris wrote:
>>
>> First of all, you don't know what I've been through with this cat the past
>
> Amitriptyline has been remarkably effective in the treatment of FUS and
>related problems. Beyond its antidepressant activity (which actually is
>a human reaction; in cats this seems to be manifested as soporific
>activity.) it is a muscle relaxant. In cats with urinary crystals,
>spasms in the bladder and urinary sphincter aggravate the problem, and
>amitrip- is effective with the spasms as well.
> Amitriptyline used for symptomatic relief of feline urologic problems
>is pretty cutting edge; your vet is to be commended for staying up to
>date. You really ought to follow her advice.
> Tim is accurate in describing the drug, but it is relatively harmless
>compared to, say, steroids. Are you going to listen to Tim (sorry, Tim!
>No offense.) or are you going to listen to a professional who knows what
>Tim told you, and is using the stuff responsibly?
> Chris, Max is behaving consistently within the context of being Max the
>cat. His behavior has reasons. I may have misjudged you. I certainly
>hope so. Your posts (both of them) suggest that you're flying off the
>handle rather than dealing effectively with this problem. Neither of
>your posts contained enough information to offer significant advice;
>mostly you complained about the damage and the things that have failed.
> After two years of peeing on furniture, Max isn't misbehaving. He's
>simply doing something he's always done. It's not a problem with him; by
>now its simple habit. The problem- and your posts certainly demonstrate
>it- is that you've failed to understand what's going on with him. After
>two years, you should know.
> Posting your cat's life would in fact be useful. When does he pee on
>furniture? Is there a context that provokes it, such as your leaving for
>work? Does he do it in front of you, or try to conceal the behavior?
>Where does he pee, exactly? The same place, or at random? Different
>rooms? How do you react? What sort of strategies have you employed to
>change his behavior? How effective were they? How did he react to your
>strategies? Observe Max. He's acting consistently, and his actions are
>motivated. Discover the motivation.
> I don't think you mistreat Max, but you certainly misunderstand him. If
>the peeing is simple habit, for instance, getting him a companion is not
>going to help. If it's anxiety-related, what is provoking it? Even at
>that, an anxiety-provoked behavior may have become simple habit after so
>long. It may be associative marking; if you'd researched this sort of
>behavior, you'd know what that is. You'd have a little insight, and
>possibly a strategy.
> As I said earlier, observe Max. Read and learn about cats. Use those
>insights to get Max on track. I probably am being tough on you, Chris,
>and if you want to be mad at me, fine. Go to the library and get some
>books on cats. Read them with Max on your lap. When two books agree on
>an issue, consider it; when three do, consider it fact. When you figure
>it out, you can thumb your nose at me.
Deirdre
will be far better for him if you find that you don't need to), but if you
do decide to quit with the medication, it should be tapered off for a week
or two rather than just stopped outright. Best of luck.
Dee
konengro
> Im still slightly concerned about this drug. Its often compared with
> prozac or paxal. When those drugs are used, if treatment is ended abruptly
> it can cause an even deeper depression and mood swings. I was only given a
> months worth for max and was told it was up to me at the end of a month to
> continue to use it or not. I dont really understand this. If I end his
> medication abruptly, couldnt he end up being more upset then he was to
> begin with? I think at two years old, hes too young to take permanent
> medication. Its hard for me to monitor him as well.
Chris-
I dug up Jabba's prescription; it was for 1/4 of a 10 mg. tab, once a
day. I believe her original dose was, like Max's, 5 mg. and the vet
agreed to halve it. As for depression and mood swings- I don't really
think you need to worry about that here. There's different chemistry,
physiology and neurology involved between cats and featherless bipeds,
and if Max is getting a minimal effective dose, I doubt if you need to
worry about stopping it. It's not like steroids, where stopping abruptly
can cause liver damage.
The regimen is supposed to go like this: Max is peeing because he's
anxious. Removing the anxiety (with drugs) changes the behavior. After a
couple weeks (and if the anxiety is not externally provoked) then
stopping the drugs should get you and Max back to a satisfactory status
quo. These regimens don't go on more than two or three weeks.
Before you listen to me, though, talk to your vet about all this. It's
very important that your vet participate in this treatment.
I haven't emailed you yet, Chris, but its in the queue.