Can't discipline cat w/ water
Amy Bell Bjelland
and so I cannot discipline him by using "spray bottle justice." Does anyone
have any suggestions? Currently he loves to get into the mini-blinds. All
I know to do is to say "NO" in a stern voice and get him down from the
window. Any other ideas?
Amy
Kim Callahan
think actually *liked* it a bit. My suggestion would be to continue with
the stern voice and, since he is a kitten, a pat on the bottom (I no
longer do this with mine). My cat is pretty well-trained in that respect
- If I raise my voice he knows.... Good luck. It will take awhile. I
used to swear he read kitty propoganda on how to annoy your owner... ;)
Kim
--
__________________________________
Bad Luck Girl: http://www.geocities.com/collegepark/7389
UnSealed Ezine: http://come.to/unsealed
unse...@gvn.net (916) 452-3149
"I'm good at feeling bad, Even better at feeling worse"
- "Stuck Here Again", L7
Rachel Cree
Kim Callahan wrote in message <36E71C...@gvn.net>...
Persian Paws
few times the taste will be associated with the spray bottle and they will
take it a little more seriously.
If you've never owned a Persian you haven't lived.
Patti Brooks
QuarterStep Cattery
http://www.1313mockingbirdlane.com/cats
Rachel Cree wrote:
--
--------------------------------------------------------
konengro
>
> Try adding a small amount of vinegar to the water, once they clean that off a
> few times the taste will be associated with the spray bottle and they will
> take it a little more seriously.
And if you get the spray in your critter's eyes, there is a potential
for chemical burns from the acetic acid in vinegar. Please don't do
this.
Regards,
--
Paul F. Hoff Milton, WA konengro*at*worldnet.att.net
Uncle Walter's Small Engine Repair and Keys Made
http://home.att.net/~konengro/
Ciedre
>>Amy Bell Bjelland wrote:
>>>
>>> Help! My new kitty (4 or 5 years old, but new to me) is not afraid of
>water
>>> and so I cannot discipline him by using "spray bottle justice." Does
>anyone
>>> have any suggestions? Currently he loves to get into the mini-blinds.
>All
>>> I know to do is to say "NO" in a stern voice and get him down from the
>>> window. Any other ideas?
>>> Amy
>>
>>--
Try putting a few pennies in a few empty soda cans, seal them with
duct tape, and plpace them strategically around the house. Then, when
your cat gets into the blinds, toss the can near the cat. The loud
sound will startle the cat and make them stop what they are doing. I
had to do this when my cat got used to the water bottle. Also, I have
heard of using lemon juice instead of water.
Persian Paws
likely to have their eyes effected by your chemically treated tap water. I did not
say to use straight vinegar, but then you knew that before you responded.
konengro wrote:
>
>
> And if you get the spray in your critter's eyes, there is a potential
> for chemical burns from the acetic acid in vinegar. Please don't do
> this.
> Regards,
> --
> Paul F. Hoff Milton, WA konengro*at*worldnet.att.net
> Uncle Walter's Small Engine Repair and Keys Made
> http://home.att.net/~konengro/
--
--------------------------------------------------------
konengro
>
> No to argue here but diluted vinegar does not cause chemical burns, they are more
> likely to have their eyes effected by your chemically treated tap water. I did not
> say to use straight vinegar, but then you knew that before you responded.
Patti-
You are arguing, not to point out the obvious.
Acetic acid causes chemical burns. Diluted, less so, but it is still
acetic acid. Treated water can cause discomfort sprayed in the eyes, but
usually doesn't.
Try this. Spray *yourself* in the eyes with vinegar. Then spray
yourself in the eyes with tap water. Which hurts more?
Pain is never a good thing to use for modifying a critter's behavior.
The point of using a spray bottle on a critter is to provoke an
aversion-reaction, an unpleasant startlement that the critter will,
hopefully, learn to associate with undesirable behavior. Making it
painful for a critter may well be more efficient in achieving those
ends, but I dearly hope you like your critter too much to do something
so unsavory.
Persian Paws
Go ask your vet if this can harm kitty, I have and got the answer that clearly you need
to hear from your own vet.
konengro wrote:
--
Persian Paws
diluted form, go check it out with your own vet.
konengro
>
> Paul,
> Go ask your vet if this can harm kitty, I have and got the answer that clearly you need
> to hear from your own vet.
So you're saying that your vet has sprayed vinegar in his eyes? You're
making little sense here, Patti. If you think spraying vinegar in a
cat's eyes is completely harmless, then why put the vinegar in the spray
at all?
In fact, it's painful, and putting vinegar in a spray bottle to modify
behavior is a rather vicious thing to do. Obviously, I can't prevent you
from doing what you will with your cats, but I won't let you advocate
that here unopposed.
Persian Paws
I once again ask you to ask your vet, will adding a small amount of vinegar to the water in a
spray bottle endanger your cat or it's vision. If you think that is vicious than you really
must have a very disturbed sense of discipline with your animals. Declawing is vicious,
physically hitting an animal repeatedly is vicious, spraying it with a solution of water with
a small amount of vinegar is discipline. If you do not plan on asking your vet or have not
done so already, then you really do not even have a medical basis for your opinion, do you?
I do.
konengro wrote:
--
Jason Paterson
exactly what it is you cat may be feeling!
Alison
konengro
> Paul,
> I once again ask you to ask your vet, will adding a small amount of vinegar to the water in a spray bottle endanger your cat or it's vision. If you think that is vicious than you really
> done so already, then you really do not even have a medical basis for your opinion, do you? I do.
From a material safety data sheet on acetic acid, which is the basis
for vinegar:
"after aspiration of vomit. Cannot be excluded: shock, cardiovascular
failure, and acidosis. Damage of kidneys.
Eye: Burns. Risk of blindness. Risk of corneal clouding, burns
of mucous membranes.
Skin:Burns
Inhaled: Irritation symptoms in the respiratory tract.
Pnuemonia, bronchitis. Inhalation may lead to the formation of oedemas
in the respiratory tract."
The full MSDS you can read at
http://www.vanbar.com.au/photochem/msds/acetic.html
What causes pain causes harm, Patti. Why would you find this
unreasonable? Are you truly willing to cause harm and pain to your
critters, simply to get them to behave as you'd like?
I do think this sort of thing is vicious, and self-serving. I am
inclined to be overprotective of my cats. My cats, however, don't really
respond to that anymore than they'll respond to any sort of "discipline"
as you appear to define it.
You're being mean to your cats, Patti, and hurtful, with this vinegar
business. I sincerely hope you'll stop.
Regards
Persian Paws
Clearly you know much less about cats than you seam to think you do, why are you so unwilling to ask your vet for his opinion? I did not advocate putting straight vinegar in the cats eyes, I
said add a small amount, not to fill the bottle with vinegar, but if you are so sure this is harmful, why not ask a professional for their opinion, are you that afraid you might be wrong?
Some of my cats are worth more than the average american family grosses in a two week pay period so you can be damn sure I know how to care for them, and will certainly take my vets (a cat
specialists) opinions over the ranting of a news group junkie with a couple of pets. As a matter of fact, if you knew anything about cats and professional show grooming, you would know that
the standard final rinse in a show bath consist of a diluted vinegar solution. This is a good practice after any bath as it will remove any soap residue left in an animals coat, which could
cause them harm. This is a common practice and is perfectly safe for the animal, but you would know that if you ever talked to a professional to get their opinion instead of relying on the
fact that you simply do not like to be wrong. To try to turn making a cat clean vinegar off of its coat into animal abuse is just a pathetic attempt to cover up the fact that you simply do
not know what you are talking about when it comes to this subject.
Since you seam to be so nifty at looking up chemical facts, why don't you go look up boric acid? In a straight form it will burn and damage the eyes, yet in a diluted form is safe and helpful
to irrigate eyes, hence it's presence in contact lens cleaning solution. Or maybe you know more than the FDA on that subject?
As for not "disciplining" your animals, let me clue you in, the first reason any animal ends up in a pound or shelter is undesirable behavior, but if you were a professional in the animal
field you would know that. Cats that can not be trained out of scratching furniture get the last knuckle of each toe amputated to prevent such behavior. While these options are not
acceptable, water with a small amount of vinegar is, and will do no more harm than to irritate your cat when he goes to clean himself and has to taste it. If you were so sure you were
correct, you would have asked your vet and not tried to rely on an internet web site to try to back your ridiculous theory.
konengro wrote:
--
frank....@dol.net
konengro <kone...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> Persian Paws wrote:
A note from your friendly chemist (I do MSDS's): there is one hell of a
difference between pure acetic acid and vinegar which is about a 5% solution.
You could drink a tablespoon of vinegar with no harm but a tablespoon of
acetic acid would put you in the hospital. Similar for a shot of whiskey and
a shot of 200 proof alcohol. Also cats have significant biochemical
differences from people which makes them poor animal test subjects for
evaluating toxicity. To be on the safe side, I wouldn't sprinkle anything on
our cat, Willie. Frank
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
konengro
>
> In article <36ED4D...@worldnet.att.net>,
> konengro <kone...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> > Persian Paws wrote:
> A note from your friendly chemist (I do MSDS's): there is one hell of a
> difference between pure acetic acid and vinegar which is about a 5% solution.
> You could drink a tablespoon of vinegar with no harm but a tablespoon of
> acetic acid would put you in the hospital. Similar for a shot of whiskey and
> a shot of 200 proof alcohol. Also cats have significant biochemical
> differences from people which makes them poor animal test subjects for
> evaluating toxicity. To be on the safe side, I wouldn't sprinkle anything on
> our cat, Willie. Frank
Frank,
You are most certainly correct. I used the MSDS because it's online,
and anyone can confirm it. Vinegar is well-diluted acetic acid, and the
effects are considerably attenuated in that form.
However, there is no question that vinegar in the eyes is not going to
be a fine time for anyone, cats, featherless bipeds, or hamsters on
steroids. It hurts, and pain is no way to manipulate a cat. Even citric
acid (that's *lemon juice,* Patti) is going to hurt if you get it in
your eyes, and its a lot more benign than acetic, or vinegar.
Patti, you've become rabid, personally offensive, and you've actually
wander far afield from the topic at hand. As you know, I invited you to
take this private, since its obviously not useful to anyone else or to
the NG. If you can be civil, feel free to email me. I'll say nothing
more on the topic here, except, of course, to insist that people not do
mean things to their critters.
Regards,
Persian Paws
Coming from someone who recommended moving a litter pan to where a six week old
kitten is reliving himself instead of training the cat to the pan, your opinion
does not hold any weight with me. Someone who would rather vaccinate one every
three years to prevent ISF (injection site fibrosarcomas) instead of using an
intranasal vaccine to begin with is definitely not an expert in the field. You
have chosen to attempt to label me as a person out to abuse my animals and then say
I have been rabid and offensive? You have tried to compare water w/vinager to
acetic acid and say I am wandering far a field?
You can hem and haw all you like, cats are what I do and have made a life of
knowing my business, along with the help of an exceptional veterinarian. I know
what I am talking about and have the knowledge of my vet to back me up, all you
have here is speculation and innuendo, that an a dollar will get you a cup of
coffee.
Rik Brooks
attention. Vinegar is a 5% solution of Acetic acid. Now, dilute a little
vinegar in a spray bottle and you get something substantially less than 1%.
Patti never said to spray the cat in its eyes. She said to spray the coat
and the cat would dislike cleaning it off.
If you are going to argue with her then you should argue with what she said.
To do that you have to pay attention.
konengro
>
> I've just read the whole thread. Clearly neither Frank nor Paul has paid any
> attention. Vinegar is a 5% solution of Acetic acid. Now, dilute a little
> vinegar in a spray bottle and you get something substantially less than 1%.
> Patti never said to spray the cat in its eyes. She said to spray the coat
> and the cat would dislike cleaning it off.
Rik-
The original poster said spraying the cat in the face with water had no
effect. Patti recommended something that is unquestionably painful:
putting vinegar in the spray bottle. You didn't read the whole thread,
Rik.
You're correct Patti had the silly notion of spraying only the cat's
fur, as if you could effectively limit a harmful spray in that manner.
The entire point of spraying a cat to discourage behavior is an
immediate aversion reaction, a jerking-away sort of thing that is
neither painful nor harmful. The notion of spraying something unpleasant
on a cat's coat so the cat can lick it off is not going to form any
association between the behavior and the spraying. It indicates a
complete lack of knowledge regarding behavior modification.
I invite you to make the same experiment, Rik. Fill a spray bottle with
a vinegar solution. Spray it in your eyes. Spray it close to your eyes,
I don't care. Dilute it as much as you like. Spray. Once you've stopped
cursing and washing your eyes, dilute it some more, and spray again.
Still painful? Dilute it some more.
The only way this business is going to be harmless is if you have so
little vinegar in solution that there's no reason to put it there in the
first place.
If Patti had defended her notion along the lines you suggest, I would
have pointed out the above. She didn't; she called it harmless, which it
isn't; and defended the notion of using pain for behavior modification.
Her draconian notions of punishment and discipline are alien to cat
behavior. I sincerely hope she treats her cats better than her posts
would imply.
Rik Brooks
>Amy Bell Bjelland wrote:
>
> Help! My new kitty (4 or 5 years old, but new to me) is not afraid of
water
> and so I cannot discipline him by using "spray bottle justice." Does
> anyone have any suggestions? Currently he loves to get into the
mini-blinds.
> All I know to do is to say "NO" in a stern voice and get him down from the
> window. Any other ideas?
> Amy
Tell me, now read carefully, do you see anything about spraying in the face?
I read the rest of the messages and the only person that ever spoke of
spraying in the face is you.
You keep telling me to spray myself in my eyes. Patti never said anything
about spraying in the eyes. Even so, a person's eyes and a cat's eyes are
entirely different. Different physiology, different nerves, a whole
different system -- or hadn't you noticed?
About the vinegar, the original writer mentioned that her cat seemed to have
grown fond of the water. Patti's response, and I think a good one, is to
prevent this fondness, or to discourage it, put in the vinegar -- and spray
the fur. Note that Patti mentioned the cat licking it off. Clearly Patti was
talking about spraying the body of the cat.
I've used a spray bottle of water for years on my barbecue and can tell you
that I can put a stream exactly where I want it from five feet away. There
is no danger of getting even the amazingly mild solution in your cat's eyes
if you are spraying for the body -- unless of course you can't hold your
hand reasonably still.
About your linking of the aversion training to the vinegar -- again, you
weren't paying attention. Patti wasn't saying that the vinegar would break
the cat of the behavior. Patti was saying that the vinegar would prevent the
cat from enjoying the water. The original problem was that the cat had
become accustomed to the water and it was no longer a detriment. Putting
vinegar in the water would restore the unpleasant effect of the water. The
vinegar itself was not to be used as the deterrent. It was meant to prevent
the deterrent from becoming pleasant.
You mentioned that Patti suggested something that is unquestionably painful.
Sorry, Patti didn't mention spraying the cat in its eyes -- you did. Patti
mentioned the fur. Tell me, are you of the opinion that a < 1% solution of
acetic acid sprayed on fur is painful?
You question if I could effectively limit a 'harmful' spray in that manner.
I respond by asking who in the world can't? It's not difficult. The cat's
eyes are so small and the body so large and the bottle so accurate. I
challenge you, since you lke challenges, fill up a spray bottle, set the
nozzle on stream and see how accurate you are. I would wager that you would
be pretty darned accurate.
So, let's get straight the situation here. Spraying was unpleasant and
became pleasant. Putting the vinegar in the water wouldn't change that. The
cat would get sprayed and think "Ahhhh the paws that refreshes" then the cat
leisurely goes to clean itself and YUCK! All of a sudden the short bath
loses it's appeal.
No, the spraying of something upleasant on a cat's coat so that the cat can
lick it off does not form an association between the behavior and the
spraying. That is already formed. It simply makes the act of being sprayed a
deterent again -- which was the problem in the first place.
Patti never did defend the notion of using pain for behavior modification.
My goodness, you dance around more than Bill Clinton! Patti repeatedly
emphasized that her vet had told her that it was painless and harmless.
So here is another challenge for you. Put a couple of tablespoons of vinegar
in a spray bottle and carefully spray your cat the next time that she does
something. Did she howl in pain? Did she cower? Did she react in pain or in
annoyance?
It's amazing watching your dancing definitions here. Originally you were
suggesting that we put pure acetic acid in our eyes. Then you suggested
vinegar, now you are suggesting diluted vinegar when in fact the whole idea
of this 'little vinegar in the water' being sprayed in the eyes is entirely
a creation of your own imagination.
Sounds like Patti isn't the Draconian one here after all.
konengro
*poit*
You're correct Ric; I was citing a post in another thread, in a kinder,
gentler cat NG, a my-cat-doesn't-care-if-he's-sprayed-in-face-thread.
The original poster, Amy, didn't say she's sprayed her critter in the
face. My apologies to Amy as well.
Nonetheless, you are wrong. Patti is most certainly wrong, and likely
ignorant, and, of course, I am correct.
You shouldn't spray acetic acid on your cat. I don't particularly care
how talented you imagine you are with a spray bottle. I've demonstrated
to anyone who wishes to review the facts that acetic acid is *caustic*
in concentration. So far, all we have is Patti's (and supposedly her
vet's) unreliable opinion that dilute acetic is harmless in this
context.
Cat's aren't aliens. You spray acetic acid in their eyes and they're
not going to be tickled about it. Or are you suggesting that cats don't
feel pain?
I really do think Patti ought to spray some vinegar in her eyes.
Perhaps you should too. Me? Nup. I know better. Keep the vinegar on your
salad bucko. Spraying it on a cat is mean.
You're making me repeat myself, Rik, and I really hate that. I'm
certain anyone reviewing this thread will find a more compassionate
conclusion than you.
Rik, Patti, you have the thread to yourselves. Please put your
denigrations, your insults, questions of my credibility and integrity,
and endless pointless digressions about boric acid and barbeque here:
MyCha57446
duct tape, and plpace them strategically around the house. Then, when
your cat gets into the blinds, toss the can near the cat. The loud
sound will startle the cat and make them stop what they are doing. I
had to do this when my cat got used to the water bottle. Also, I have
heard of using lemon juice instead of water.>>
Better get on top of this one Paul, if you twist her words right you can say
she might cause the cat brain injury. Maybe you can try to say that she
advocates force feeding your cat lemon juice, then using duct tape to restrain
it. With your great abilities to twist what is said into your own crusade
against abuse I am sure you could even convince your self that you must save
her cats from the abuse at her hands.
You were asked over and over again to go ask your vet, instead you went to a
web site and tried to make some outrageous comparison between acid and vinegar
so I am willing to guess that maybe you do not even have a vet. I can tell you
that I have seen Patti's web site and she probably has more cat knowledge in
her little toe than you will ever have your entire life. Maybe you ought to
stick with radiators because it is clear from everything you post that you know
nothing of cats other than what you have learned as a pet owner, which is not a
great endorsement in itself. You better stick with cars, I hope you know more
about them.
My name is barf on this
Hey ! konengro ! Whadya think about that idea?
Think maybe that can might take an eye out or knock a leg off maybe ?
:)
The ENFORCERE
_________________
konengro
>
> Hey ! konengro ! Whadya think about that idea?
> Think maybe that can might take an eye out or knock a leg off maybe ?
> :)
>
> The ENFORCERE
Who are you, and what on earth are you talking about? Try to be a
*little* more articulate, will you?
My name is barf on this
The message is simply " Lighten up :) "
What some people do with their cats shouldn't be a surprize. Just look
at what people do to themselves
ie: drinking, smoking, poor diet
Heck most people can't take care of themselves.
keep the info rolling in . . . the people that know better will
listen, those that don't won't.
The ENFORCERE
__________________
On Fri, 19 Mar 1999 21:16:34 GMT, ba...@dlcwest.com (My name is barf on
this) wrote:
>
>Hey ! konengro ! Whadya think about that idea?
>Think maybe that can might take an eye out or knock a leg off maybe ?
>:)
>
>The ENFORCERE
konengro
>
> The message is simply " Lighten up :) "
I posted none of this, though; the venom and insults are coming from
someone else, one of vinegar Patti's breeder friends. No cans thrown
around here, never have been. It *would* help if you were more
articulate. "take an eye out or knock a leg off" doesn't sound like
lighten up.
So. Who are you?
--
Celeste
Persian Paws <quart...@home.com> wrote in article
<36EEECDE...@home.com>...
<snip>
What a laughable waste of time and energy. Konengro offers more helpful
advice that _works_ than anyone in this NG. I wouldn't mess with spraying
vinegar water at my cat on the off chance she would turn and get it in her
eyes. When you discipline a cat by spraying water at it, can you _really_
predict what part of the cat you will hit? Give up the whole "spray" idea
and just yell at the cat, for heaven's sake. BTW, I use a vinegar rinse on
my hair when I want it to be particularly shiny, but I am careful not to
get it into my eyes. I don't think I would trust anyone who was spraying it
on me to do the same, diluted or not.
Janel
a book that if you want to clean a cat's ears you can take half vinigar and
half water, and dip a cotton swab in it and gently swab the kitties ear.
Just my 2 ¢ worth. :)
HL
CableGuyUK
pretty much ignore the original problem and start throwing insults at each
other. The only place I have even seen a water bottle used as a discipline is
on a Virtual Pet program that my kids use called "Catz". Perhaps this is
because it gets used by some people in reality. I currently own four cats (real
ones) one of which is a pedigree Angora. Anyone who knows Angoras, knows that
they are one of the more mischevious breeds. I have had three other cats before
these, who have only passed on from age, having had a good life each. I have
NEVER had to use anything even remotely like a water bottle, never had to
strike them or anything to discipline them. All it has ever taken is a firm
"NO" whilst removing them from whatever they are doind at the time. I cannot
even start to imagine using something like vinegar or lemon juice - good grief,
my pedigree is FAR too valuable to me to consider using something that has not
been COMPLETELY proven to be harmless. Why don't you guys start thinking of the
cats' well being, instead of the matter of proving which of you is right? (of
course, now you'll start telling me that you were only thinking of the cats'
well being all the time).
Martin
Mike, Ann and Ashley too
I would suggest that you try spraying the vinegar in YOUR eyes and then
tell me it does not hurt...VINEGAR is an acid and will burn..and
potentially do damage...
Personally, if someone sprayed my cat or our friend's dogs with vinegar
it would be the last time that person would use that hand to spray
anything...because I would chop it off for inflicting such cruelty!!!
AND then pour a bottle in the garbage's eyes so they could know what it
feels like...
In article <36EC13...@worldnet.att.net>, kone...@worldnet.att.net
says...
>
>Persian Paws wrote:
>>
>> Paul,
>> Go ask your vet if this can harm kitty, I have and got the answer
that cl
>early you need
>> to hear from your own vet.
>
> So you're saying that your vet has sprayed vinegar in his
eyes? You're
>making little sense here, Patti. If you think spraying vinegar in a
>cat's eyes is completely harmless, then why put the vinegar in the
spray
>at all?
> In fact, it's painful, and putting vinegar in a spray bottle
to modify
>behavior is a rather vicious thing to do. Obviously, I can't prevent
you
>from doing what you will with your cats, but I won't let you advocate
>that here unopposed.
>Regards,
Tim Haines
konengro wrote in message <36EEF2...@worldnet.att.net>...
> I've demonstrated
>to anyone who wishes to review the facts that acetic acid is *caustic*
>in concentration.
No it's not - 'caustic' means 'strongly alkaline' in my dictionary and
experience - as in 'caustic soda' - exactly the opposite of 'acid' which is
what vinegar is.
A brief observation on dilution of acids - it's a long time since I did
college chemistry, but I do remember that acids do not dilute in a linear
fashion - i.e. an acid solution which is diluted by ten times comes out much
stronger than a tenth of its original strength. Perhaps someone more
knowledgeable can expand if necessary. Just to suggest that if you *are*
going to spray acidic solutions at animals, be careful..........
If anyone doubts the acidic powers of vinegar, just inhale over a freshly
treated portion of chips!
Tim Haines
>Personally, if someone sprayed my cat or our friend's dogs with vinegar
>it would be the last time that person would use that hand to spray
>anything...because I would chop it off for inflicting such cruelty!!!
>AND then pour a bottle in the garbage's eyes so they could know what it
>feels like...
I don't think that hysteria is going to help at all.......
kir...@my-dejanews.com
Here's the essential difference between you and Paul, in a nutshell. Paul
loves his pets and does the best he can to spoil them, make them happy,
and provide the best possible life for them. You, on the other hand, said
it yourself..."cats are what I do and have made a life of
> knowing my business"
Cats should not be a "business"...they're live creatures with feelings,
emotions, and needs. Who cares if your cats are "worth more than the average
american family grosses in a two week pay period"? My cat is worth more than
all the money in the world, not because she's perfect, but because she is my
best friend. Maybe your knowledge of cats on a physical level exceeds every
person on this newsgroup, but on the level of that special bond that can be
formed when you actually love and care EMOTIONALLY for your cat, you are as
poor as a beggar in the street. I'm not arguing about whether or not using
a bit of vinegar is going to harm a cat. I just wanted to let you know that
I think you're an emotionally devoid human being, and your attitude towards
your "business" digusts me. Thanks for listening.
Kim
In article <36EDEFEB...@home.com>,
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Mike, Ann and Ashley too
animals and the stupidities humans have been known to do to them, like
this idiot planning to spray a cat with vinegar!!!!
When I was involved in animal rescue I saw too many animals who were
sprayed with all manner of substances and heard too many humans use the
excuse, "well I just wanted to teach it how to behave"...
and I had to stop doing rescues because I saw too many animals in such
situations and led to me having a few too many sleepless nights...if
you know what I mean..
Any problem with that, drop me an email and let's discuss it outside
the ng...or let's just agree to disagree...
Mike (a former member of the New Jersey Chapter of the St. Francis
Society for the Rescue of Abused Animals)
In article <7dapvf$bcc$2...@news5.svr.pol.co.uk>,
t...@pennyblack.freeserve.co.uk says...
MyCha57446
you have turned some useful advice into animal abuse charges, I have to assume
becuase you just have no life. Now people that never read the original thread
are responding to your insanity, and you don't bother to clue them in.....get a
life!!!
Persian Paws
know what was going on....but you do not, so why bother?
--
Persian Paws
Go buy a cat from Paul, then buy one from me, i will guarantee you will be happier
with the at from my home....but you do not think that far ahead....do you?
kir...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> > --
> > --------------------------------------------------------
> > If you've never owned a Persian you haven't lived.
> >
> > Patti Brooks
> > QuarterStep Cattery
> > http://www.1313mockingbirdlane.com/cats
> >
> >
>
> -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
--
Persian Paws
you are "that bright". Paul knows very little about cats, if you knew
more you would realize that. The fact is that most that DO know, would
not waste their time trying to educate the people in news groups, clearly
that has been "my" mistake. I should leave you all to a bunch of pet
owners that actually talk to their vet once a year (with the exception of
a few, but not Paul). If you want to leave it to ammeters, then that is
your choice, I guess if you wanted real advice you might foot the bill for
a vet.
"P. Conn" wrote:
> I am still trying to get over some of the sick visuals handed to us by
> mycha...@aol.com (MyCha57446) in this thread. Things I will not
> repeat.
>
> Although I am new to this group, I completely and utterly agree with
> Kim's post already. I am thinking of changing my first name now.
> Certainly the last time I will use it here.
>
> ~patti Conn
>
> PS-- If you have never shared your life with a cat... you have not yet
> lived!
>
>
> Kim wrote, in part:
> >Patti, (patti brooks)
> >Here's the essential difference between you
> >and Paul, in a nutshell. Paul loves his pets and
> >does the best he can to spoil them, make them
> >happy, and provide the best possible life for
> >them. You, on the other hand, said it
> >yourself..."cats are what I do and have made a
> >life of knowing my business"
> >Cats should not be a "business"...they're live
> >creatures with feelings, emotions, and needs.
> ><snip>
Persian Paws
others.......please do change your name so you don't make me look as
stupid as you must be to comment on what you did not even read!
kir...@my-dejanews.com
her whiskers torn out and beaten. She's deadly afraid of other animals,
but when she passes on to her next life, I will adopt from the local
shelter. There are too many good cats in need of homes to spend my money
buying them from a cattery. They may never be show cats, or worth all the
money your "products" are worth, but they'll be more loved than yours ever
will be.
Kim
In article <36FAED8C...@home.com>,
Persian Paws <quart...@home.com> wrote:
> Yadayada, some of us HAVE to know what we are doing because the rest of you
don't.
> Go buy a cat from Paul, then buy one from me, i will guarantee you will be
happier
> with the at from my home....but you do not think that far ahead....do you?
>
> kir...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> > Patti,
> >
> > Here's the essential difference between you and Paul, in a nutshell. Paul
> > loves his pets and does the best he can to spoil them, make them happy,
> > and provide the best possible life for them. You, on the other hand, said
> > it yourself..."cats are what I do and have made a life of
> > > knowing my business"
> >
> > Cats should not be a "business"...they're live creatures with feelings,
> > > You can hem and haw all you like, cats are what I do and have made a life
of
> > > knowing my business, along with the help of an exceptional veterinarian.
I
> > know
> > > what I am talking about and have the knowledge of my vet to back me up,
all
> > you
> > > have here is speculation and innuendo, that an a dollar will get you a cup
of
> > > coffee.
> > >
> > > --
> > > --------------------------------------------------------
> > > If you've never owned a Persian you haven't lived.
> > >
> > > Patti Brooks
> > > QuarterStep Cattery
> > > http://www.1313mockingbirdlane.com/cats
> > >
> > >
> >
> > -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
> > http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------
> If you've never owned a Persian you haven't lived.
>
> Patti Brooks
> QuarterStep Cattery
> http://www.1313mockingbirdlane.com/cats
>
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Celeste
Persian Paws <quart...@home.com> wrote in article
<36FAED0B...@home.com>...
> If you read the original thread instead of what koneg made of it, you
might
> know what was going on....but you do not, so why bother?
>
I *still* hold that you cannot be sure what you are going to hit when you
spray a cat with a solution of vinegar and water. I read the whole thread,
and your contention that you want to add vinegar to the water so that the
cat finds it unpleasant to lick it off is bogus. If the cat turns suddenly
and you spray it in the eyes, you will injure the cat, and/or cause it
discomfort.
Mike, Ann and Ashley too
vinegar is not just a smelly unpleasant fluid..it can be dangerous even
diluted....
In article <01be781d$62c95920$67414d0c@computername>,
cmeado...@hotmail.com says...
Mike, Ann and Ashley too
me...
in otherwords, BITE ME!!!!!bitch!!!
In article <36FAED0B...@home.com>, quart...@home.com says...
>
>If you read the original thread instead of what koneg made of it, you
might
>know what was going on....but you do not, so why bother?
>
MyCha57446
NO But he knows more about cats than you ever will!! But you must not listen
to his advice becuase he does not feel the nned to worship the ground your cat
walks on. You will never admit that soemone might know more than the pet
oweners whom you hold in such high regard, but you are digging your own grave.
Those who have the knowledge will not waste their time tying to empart it to
you bacause you are too stupid to listen and YOUR cat will suffer. It will be
your loss, not theirs.
MyCha57446
world that other cats do not die because of behavioral problems? I guess you
do.
Camilla Scharff
Just curious - how long have you been breeding? I've checked out your
website - doesn't say anything about that...
Regards
Camilla Scharff
Camischa's Burmese, DK
(remove NOSPAM to e-mail me)
Persian Paws skrev i meddelelsen <36FAED8C...@home.com>...
>> > --
>> > --------------------------------------------------------
>> > If you've never owned a Persian you haven't lived.
>> >
>> > Patti Brooks
>> > QuarterStep Cattery
>> > http://www.1313mockingbirdlane.com/cats
>> >
>> >
>>
>> -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
>> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
>
ryul...@gmail.com
James Wilkinson Sword
> You all are bunch of idiots. Water is a base witch in turns makes the acid in vinegar a base. Simple chem. Yes spaying a cat in the eyes intentionally can and will be hurtful to you critters. But water base vinegar helps kill fleas ring warms ticks and mites. Everyone has their own option. Everyone entitled to what they think and believe. You can’t argue with a color blind man about colors cuz it’s not what he sees. Y’all ate fighting over y’all option. I have ask my vet about it. She say yes you can use it but becarfull not to spay directly in to my cats eyes for it will hurt them. Isn’t not going to blind them just burn like hell. No different thin getting soap in your eye showing. If you want to use water base vinegar thin use it for no more thin a few well aimed shots. Thin back to water. If not there others ways. Like rubbing Vic’s I put on on a few thing I don’t want him near and he don’t go near it. That’s just my option.
--
Rule 34: If it exists, there's porn of it.