Was my cat's death avoidable if he had had a blood transfusion?
James Simpson
was completely avoidable. The vet said he had severe "flea anemia". I had
brought him to the vet after he had been sluggish, lost weight, and quit
eating for about 2 or 3 days. I noticed the night before that his tail was
oozing blood, but thought it was his usual allergy (he had allergies that
caused him to develop scabs that oozed on his back and tail for years in the
summer). When I got him to the vet, I showed him the tail that had been
oozing, and it suddenly had maggots on it. The maggots were not on the tail
the night before, I know because I had looked at it closely and even cut off
some of the hair on the tail that was matted and put some hydrogen peroxide
on the tail twice to kill germs (and possibly any maggots?), so the maggots
got there overnight. The vet said he would "sedate" him (not completely)
enough to shampoo the area with something to kill and wash out the maggots.
He did just that, but he said the procedure "stressed" Walter and "he died".
I asked what happened, and all he could say was "he died" because it
"stressed" him. Then he told me he had severe flea anemia, to the point he
didn't have enough blood in his body, and because of that he couldn't
tolerate the procedure of washing out the maggots. Well, if a cat has
anemia and not enough blood due to fleas, wouldn't it be logical to give him
a blood transfusion? Today, I read that it is indeed possible to give cats
blood transfusions, which my vet did not do or even mention. I'm also sure
that Walter was dehydrated since he had quit drinking as well as eating for
a day or two, but I don't think the vet gave him any fluids to correct that
either. A wildlife rehabilitator once gave one of our cats about 15cc of
"Ringer's solution", subcutaneously, when he was dehydrated, which perked
the cat right up, so I don't understand why my vet didn't do even this for
Walter, and why he didn't even mention the possibility of a blood
transfusion. I'm convinced now that Walter's death was unavoidable if he
had a blood transfusion and/or fluids to correct the dehydration.
How could a vet fail to do these very simple procedures that were
obviously *necessary* before sedating him for a procedure (washing away
maggots in the tail) that was obviously "stressful" even when partly
"sedated"? I could understand the vet not having the facilities for a blood
transfusion, but he should have at least told me about the possibility and
referred to me to a vet who could do the transfusion, and he at least could
have given him fluids prior to the procedure.
I had no idea my cat was so severely anemic; I thought it was his usual
summer allergies and his usual decrease in appetite during the summer (he
lost weight every summer). I would give anything to have known about the
possibility, and the need, for him to have had a blood transfusion before
the procedure, and am convinced he would have survived and recovered if he
had had a transfusion, as well as fluids for the dehydration. If I had
known the condition was serious, I would have taken him to the oncologist
(Stephen Susaneck in Houston) who treated my last cat for feline leukemia
(that cat lived a happy, healthy life for 3 years after treatment by this
very competent vet, who had facilities for anything and everything,
including I'm sure, transfusions, which that cat never needed).
Anyway, I'm heartbroken to think that my cat died needlessly due to the
vet not doing what needed to be done (transfusion, fluids) BEFORE sedating
him for a "stressful" procedure. Are blood transfusions for cats so uncommon
that my vet didn't know or consider this? Thanks,
James
P.S. I know every cat is special to their owner, but Walter was very
unique. He was a cat that "acted like a dog". He'd run to greet visitors at
the door like a dog and talk to them as they came in and then jump in their
lap, and he'd look right at me if I called his name and meow a very deep,
male cat meow, as if greeting me and saying "come here now." He'd even call
for me from another room, when he couldn't see me, but obviously he knew I
was in the house and that if he called out to me I'd come to see him, which
I always did. He trained me well! Cats aren't supposed to have "object
permanence", but Walter did, which I think is very unusual. Several times,
he would sit right outside my cat door (clear plexiglass) looking inside and
meowing his deep meow, calling me to come see out and see him (my back yard
is fenced and he never left the yard). Then, when I walked to the door and
opened the cat door to pet him, he'd run out into the yard, obviously
signaling me to follow him, and every time he'd immediately run to a tree
and scratch the bark, looking back at me, which was his way of showing he
was excited to see me (kind of like a person rubbing their palms to indicate
excitement and anticipation) and happy that I went outside to be with him.
So unusual, for a cat to call an owner, who they can't even see, and then
entice me to come outside and play with him. I will miss this cat more than
I can say, and it hurts all the more to know that he could have been saved
with a blood transfusion and fluids for dehydration. I can't help but blame
myself, partially, for not sensing the seriousness of his condition and
taking him to a specialist like Dr. Susaneck, but this vet screwed up
royally in my view and did the bare minimum, resulting in my losing Walter.
I would have gladly paid for the blood transfusion.
Karen Chuplis
not a vet, but this sounds like it had certainly gotten far along and 11 is
senior in cat years. Persians too, have susceptibility to certain conditions
like heart problems that may not even have been apparent but played a
factor. I'm so VERY sorry to hear about this. It is good to remember that it
is always a good idea to have a cat checked the moment he/she starts acting
"off", not eating, or not drinking. Especially the older they get. I know
that we don't think of them as "old" at that age, because they seem like the
cat we always had, but age is a factor. Also, they hide problems VERY well,
and long hair can be especially deceptive. I'm really very sorry.
Karen
His Serene Highness Po
using Advantage or anything like that to control the fleas? You mention
"flea anemia". I assume the cat had a severe infestation of fleas that were
sucking the life out of it. The "Advantage" type products work really well
at controling the fleas and I'm speaking from experience. My dog and cat
used to get fleas really bad, but now I can't find a flea on them with a
flea comb. My cat never goes out, but I take my dog into the woods every day
where he meets other dogs and he doesn't have a flea collar.
So to sum up. You didn't need a transfusion so much as you needed to control
the fleas with Advantage. Treatment consists of putting a couple drops on
your animal once a month.
"James Simpson" <jsimp...@JoiMail.com> wrote in message
news:b99p7u$r8b$1...@news.chatlink.com...
fo...@attbi.com
> My cat, "Walter", an 11-year-old persian, died yesterday, and I think it
>was completely avoidable.
I'm sorry for your loss. Walter sounds like a very cool cat. I
understand all too well a unique friend gone forever.
Blood transfusions are extremely stressful and dangerous -- even for
people -- and not generally available to the average vet. Maggots
indicate a wound that has not received proper attention unless maybe
you live in the tropics.
Would subcutaneous fluids have changed the outcome? Maybe, maybe not.
Frankly, I doubt it. Simple dehydration is usually obvious long
before death occurs.
Mourn your loss and cherish Walter's memory. Blame isn't helpful.
There's usually more than enough to go around. We all do the best we
can and sometimes it's not enough.
(I am not a vet)
Clay Pots
Jeff Cochran
<jsimp...@JoiMail.com> wrote:
> My cat, "Walter", an 11-year-old persian, died yesterday, and I think it
>was completely avoidable. The vet said he had severe "flea anemia".
Having had a cat with the same and a succesful transfusion, I can tell
you it works well. But that's not your real issue...
> I can't help but blame
>myself, partially, for not sensing the seriousness of his condition and
>taking him to a specialist like Dr. Susaneck, but this vet screwed up
>royally in my view and did the bare minimum, resulting in my losing Walter.
>I would have gladly paid for the blood transfusion.
Here's the basis of your real issue. Your cat died and you need to
place a blame for the loss. Only you need to share some of the blame,
which is unpleasant. Could your cat have been saved by heroic effort?
Maybe. Could it have been saved by proper care? Quite probably.
It wouldn't matter who you took the cat to or what had been done, had
it died you'd have felt the same and still looked to blame the vet.
It's actually a natural part of the loss, and you'll eventually come
to realize that there's no direct blame you can place.
Whenever I've lost a cat, I've enthusiastically thanked the vet for
their efforts. Vets feel the loss as well, and I've yet to meet a vet
who simply would rather cats die than have to deal with them. I may
be mad at them, myself and the world in general, but I know it's not
their fault. Living stuff dies. It's sometimes sad, but it's a
simple fact. And usually out of your control.
Jeff
Michael Dauria
showed up he just came in the house and slumped down on the floor and went
to sleep.
The next morning we visited the vet and they were not sure what was wrong
with him, they thought maybe he had cancer.
Anyways, they sent him up to a better vet hospital (the kind thats open 24
hours a day) and thats where he got his transfusion. He got other treatment
before they finally got him better.
He is ok now, we call him the 3000 dollar cat :)
"James Simpson" <jsimp...@JoiMail.com> wrote in message
news:b99p7u$r8b$1...@news.chatlink.com...
Stacia
> My cat, "Walter", an 11-year-old persian, died yesterday, and I think it
>was completely avoidable. The vet said he had severe "flea anemia". I had
>brought him to the vet after he had been sluggish, lost weight, and quit
>eating for about 2 or 3 days. I noticed the night before that his tail was
>oozing blood, but thought it was his usual allergy (he had allergies that
>caused him to develop scabs that oozed on his back and tail for years in the
>summer). When I got him to the vet, I showed him the tail that had been
>oozing, and it suddenly had maggots on it. The maggots were not on the tail
>the night before
OK, I'm willing to let the maggots slide as they may have arrived there
overnight, and the injury on his tail may have appeared to be something
else. But not eating for 2-3 days can be so harmful, possibly fatal, to a
cat! Also not drinking, that could lead to renal failure. And how could
the cat have gotten fleas so badly he was anemic, could you have put a
collar on him or used some Hartz spray if nothing else? A flea bath?
> How could a vet fail to do these very simple procedures that were
>obviously *necessary*
In some ways I feel like you failed to do simple procedures that could
have saved the cat. Maybe we're not hearing everything or maybe the flea
infestation was some freakish overnight thing, so I'm not trying to jump
to conclusions.
I'm very sorry for your loss. I hope this may help prevent other pets
from going through the same thing.
>had had a transfusion, as well as fluids for the dehydration.
When my kitty had a cold so bad he wouldn't drink, the fine folks here
suggested an eyedropper of water in the corner of his mouth. It really
does work well, it makes the kitty drink even if he doesn't want to.
* * *
Stacia * sta...@world.std.com * http://world.std.com/~stacia/
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death
your right to say it." - Evelyn Beatrice Hall
sue osborn
important as animal friends that we understand our role in health
maintenance. We DO carry that responsibility, and I think it is important
that you realize this. What strikes me most is that you mention a previous
cat that you lost to feline leukemia - a preventable disease. To me it
indicates a pattern that does not neccessarily reflect on your love for your
animals as much as your willingness or ability to properly care for them.
I am a believer in care balanced with holistic practices, yet living in
Texas I have fought a losing battle with fleas and ticks. I give my dogs
Frontline, and I believe that the benefits far outweigh the risks to them (I
suspect they would agree). I have seen perfectly healthy animals die as a
result of "stress" due to grooming, so it is important to temper your anger
with reality, which is that life is very fragile and unpredictable.
I know, too, that a persian presents unique challenges for observation what
with all the hair and that you clearly loved you cat. I am sorry for your
loss, but feel that what is most important for you know is to grieve and
remember him with love and peace.
"James Simpson" <jsimp...@JoiMail.com> wrote in message
news:b99p7u$r8b$1...@news.chatlink.com...
k
but you can't blame someone else for it really.
As much as anything, it was due to the flea
condition not being treated. The hazards of
fleas are a basic owners have to make themselves
knowledgeable about, and easily treated.
Open sores have to be treated, not taken for
granted, not considered "normal". Regular
checkups, regular bloodwork, and you would
have known you had an anemic cat before it
got to a life-threatening condition. Sure vets
make mistakes, and as with any profession, some
aren't the type you want to take your animals
to when they are sick, but Walter's problems
began at home. We can't count on someone else
to "save" them when we aren't doing our share.
Walter is fine now, and knows how much you love
him.
Sometimes all you can do is learn from your mistakes
and go on.
"Michael Dauria" <Mi...@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<b9bl6r$3hl$1...@news3.bu.edu>...
Dee
> Anyway, I'm heartbroken to think that my cat died needlessly due to the
> vet not doing what needed to be done (transfusion, fluids) BEFORE sedating
> him for a "stressful" procedure. Are blood transfusions for cats so uncommon
> that my vet didn't know or consider this? Thanks,
I'm very sorry for your loss. My h0p's neurologist has suggested surgery
for him, and did note that (since he's slightly anemic) he would need a
plasma transfusion before it was performed. I wouldn't think a
transfusion would be given for reasons other than surgery, though I'm not
a vet. I'm sorry to say that it does sound like your cats death may have
been avoidable, but that it doesn't neccessarily sound as if your
veterinarian is at fault.
Dee
Dee
> When my kitty had a cold so bad he wouldn't drink, the fine folks here
> suggested an eyedropper of water in the corner of his mouth. It really
> does work well, it makes the kitty drink even if he doesn't want to.
Ill cats are almost always dehydrated. you can also give a little
unflavored pedialyte in a dropped to rehydrate and increase electrolytes.
Dee
Dee
fluids. On Tuesday an endoscopy with biopsies and a liver aspiration were
performed. She said that while she does see some inflamation in the
intestines, it doesn't look bad enough to be the lymphosarcoma that was
suspected (of course we have to wait for the results of the biopsies to be
sure about the cancer). The liver looked so normal that she didn't even
bother to send the slides in, and he's definitely leukemia negative.
While all these things are great news, he's still a pretty sick little guy
and we don't know what's wrong with him. He was given an injection of
steroids to lessen inflamation and help increase his appetite.
He came home last night pretty wobbly from the anesthetic, but promptly
went to the litter box and used it for both functions, then went in search
of food. He ate plenty (which was a suprise because endoscopies with
biopsies don't really feel so great and he was having to be force fed
before hand), and has eaten three bowls of food today.
If anyone can suggest anything that could be wrong from experiences
they've had, or ways to keep him in good shape until we do find out what's
wrong, it'd be greatly appreciated. I really appreciate all the support
I've gotten from all of you. Thanks.
Dee
p.s. Soon I'll be writing to ask about George, who has become so freaked
out by all of this that all he'll do is hide and poop on the floor :/
Dee
> Any loss is difficult, and without sounding callous to your pain it is
> important as animal friends that we understand our role in health
> maintenance. We DO carry that responsibility, and I think it is important
> that you realize this. What strikes me most is that you mention a previous
> cat that you lost to feline leukemia - a preventable disease.
I agree with most of your statement, however, feline leukemia is a very
contageous virus which can be caught at any stage of life. The
vaccination is definitely not 100% effective.
Dee
Cheryl
IBD is suspect? With the inflammation and the use of steroids, it
sounds like it to me (based on my own limited experience) What
wonderful news that they think they are ruling out the lymphosarcoma,
but those are all the same exact words I heard when Shadow had his
problems last year (down to suspecting FeLV even before he actually
got it) and the biopsy revealed IBD. Once you know, then it will be
time to discuss with your vet how to proceed. By any chance did you
go to Greenbelt for an IM referral? If so, I've heard wonderful
things. That was going to be my next step, either that or the Barn in
Gaithersburg (but that's a HIKE!)
> p.s. Soon I'll be writing to ask about George, who has become so
> freaked out by all of this that all he'll do is hide and poop on the
> floor :/
Skritches for George!
James Simpson
"Blame your vet for what is an easily preventable cause of death among cats
and kittens !!! Are you for real ??"
"Clay Pots" <clayp...@hotmail.com> wrote
'Seems to me your cat's death would have been avoidable had you used a flea
collar."
"Stacia" <sta...@world.std.com> wrote
"OK, I'm willing to let the maggots slide as they may have arrived there
overnight, and the injury on his tail may have appeared to be something
else. But not eating for 2-3 days can be so harmful, possibly fatal, to a
cat! Also not drinking, that could lead to renal failure. And how could
the cat have gotten fleas so badly he was anemic, could you have put a
collar on him or used some Hartz spray if nothing else? A flea bath?"
sueo...@charter.net wrote
"We DO carry that responsibility, and I think it is important that you
realize this. What strikes me most is that you mention a previous cat that
you lost to feline leukemia - a preventable disease. To me it indicates a
pattern that does not neccessarily reflect on your love for your animals as
much as your willingness or ability to properly care for them."
Rechelle.Sin...@verizon.net wrote
"Even if Walter had allergies, when you noticed a problem you should have
taken him in immediately. You also should have controlled the flea problem
by using flea medication once a month ... there is a lot more you could have
done to save Walter's life."
"Tara" <tara....@verizon.net> wrote
"This whole thread has struck me as an odd way of people deflecting
responsibility. If I don't feed my cats for two weeks and don't take them
in for
treatment until the last minute, I don't get to blame my vet for not being
able to save them."
Shirley, Stacia, Rechelle, sue osborn, Tara, Clay Pots, you are the most
callous, unfeeling, unfair people I've had the misfortune to encounter. I
HAVE been blaming myself, and I said as much, so thanks for rubbing it in!
I am in the deepest grief, and all you do is BLAME me. You say I "should
have taken him in immediately", tell me I "should" have used a flea collar
(which don't work!), state *incorrectly* "not eating for 2-3 days can be...
fatal" (not drinking water for several days, more than 2-3, can be fatal.
But not eating for that short time is NOT fatal), and accuse me of "a
pattern" of unwillingness "to properly care" for my cat. According to Dr.
Stephen Susaneck, an expert vet oncologist (who has about $4000 of my money
for caring for my cat who had FeLV), it takes more than 2-3 days for a cat
to become dangerously dehydrated, because for some reason they are able to
store water better than other animals. Walter last drank water, to my
knowledge, about 36 hours before his death. He liked drinking from the
bathtub faucet, so I left it dripping for several days before he died so he
would be more likely to drink! When he didn't drink the day before his
death, I realized he would have to go to the vet.
The fact is, my cat's condition came up suddenly over 2 or 3 days. The
weather has *suddenly* turned very hot and very humid, and so fleas have
increased dramatically, but I could not see them on Walter due to his long
hair, and never saw him scratching. IOW, I DID NOT KNOW he had a bad flea
problem. I explained that every summer it has been a pattern for Walter to
lose some weight and eat less, and to get a rash due to allergies that oozed
just like the one on his tail. It looked *exactly* like his usual allergies.
How could I know it was different? I couldn't.
The fact is, I was trying to avoid having to put Walter through the stress
of taking him to the vet, because he was always *very* stressed by vet
visits, and it hurt me terribly to put him through any stress. The vet told
me he died due to being "stressed" by the procedure, even though he was
partly sedated, which gives an idea of how stressful vet visits were for
him. I made a MISTAKE, I'm a human being. Your blaming and callousness is
unforgivable, inexcusable. and unconscienable, and I can only assume you are
vets or work for vets, or for some other reason sympathize with vets, and
therefore are not being objective in your callous blaming.
Sue Osborn accuses me of lacking the "willingness or ability to properly
care for" my cat, based on the fact that I had a cat, "Blackjack", who died
of FeLV 12 years ago. Blackjack got FeLV 15 years ago, before the vaccine
was in widespread use, or I *would* have had him vaccinated. Did you also
know, Sue, that the FeLV vaccine is nowhere near 100% effective? As far as
my "willingness" to care for my pets, I spent more time and energy caring
for Blackjack than most people would ever dream. I force fed him 3 times a
day for 3 months with a syringe filled with egg yolk babyfood, water, and
vitamins, spent about $4000 on chemotherapy, gave him eyedrops 3 times a day
for glaucoma, nose drops twice a day for chronic nasal drainage, and
showered him with affection and love every day. The result was he gained 5
pounds and was healthy as a horse until he died at age 16, of old age. How
dare you accuse me of not being willing to do whatever it takes to care for
my cat? I doubt seriously that Sue would spend anywhere near the amount of
time, energy, and money on her pet that I spent on my Blackjack. If Walter
had gotten FeLV, I would have cared for him the same as I did for Blackjack,
even if it cost $4000 again. Unfortunately, I missed the signs, and he went
too quickly for me to intervene.
I doubt seriously that any of these callous, nasty posters would ever care
for their pet the way I did for Blackjack. The fact is, with Walter, I was
trying to strike a balance between being overly cautious and causing him
painful stress by a possibly unnecessary and, for him, extremely stressful
vet visit, and waiting to take him to the vet until I was sure it was
something more than his usual allergies. In hindsight, I made the wrong
choice, and I have to live with that mistake, which hurts more than I can
say. Telling me I "should" have done this and that and blaming me, when I
obviously loved Walter more than life itself and made a HUMAN mistake, is,
again, callous and cruel. I obviously made another mistake about Walter,
attempting to seek support on usenet. My mistake for thinking that cat
lovers would be sensitive and caring (most are, but there's always
exceptions, obviously).
That said, I very much want to thank those who have been very supportive,
like Mary and Candace, who told me, "You can't beat yourself up about it",
"I'm sorry your dear kitty passed away. Sounds like he was a great cat",
"I'm sure Walter knew he was loved". It's too bad there are a few callous
people who lack compassion and like to blame others, making all kinds of
unwarranted conclusions without even getting the full story. I loved Walter
and Blackjack with all my heart, and was always willing to do whatever it
took to keep them healthy, even if it cost thousands of dollars and many
hours of my time on a daily basis in personally caring for them to help them
recover (as it was with Blackjack).
There is one fact that remains that Shirley and the other callous people
have denied, which is why I suspect they are vets or work for vets. Mary
pointed this out succinctly, and this cannot be refuted: "He needed
subcutaneous fluids and a blood transfusion. My cat was a little anemic and
dehydrated and my vet did this for him instantly. The blood loss and
dehydration should have been treated before maggots." I will also always
feel responsible that I missed the signs, maybe because I was in denial
because in the past I had a cat that died who I loved dearly. But to accuse
me of not properly caring for my cat is not only callous, it's untrue, which
Walter, wherever he is, knows. Everyday, I showed that cat how much I loved
him, and, had I knew the seriousness of his condition, I would have taken
him to a vet sooner.
James
"Stacia" <sta...@world.std.com> wrote in message
news:b9bleu$1dr$2...@pcls4.std.com...
Laurn Mank
your cat. Sometimes things just happen. It seems to me that you are
experiencing some really raw emotions. I do not think most of the posters
are being intentionally callous. Some people try to extend comfort by using
reason and analysis whereas, it seems what you need right now is emotional
support. I think some of the people here enjoy dissecting the problem or
issues and nudge the emotional component to the side. While some of the
comments are judgmental, I think they too are trying to understand what
happened. Unfortunately, even you don't have all the details so at best many
of the responses are speculation.
Reading through your description I wonder if the tail had been more than
oozing at some point. Is it possible he had significant blood loss from the
tail before he presented to you? Maybe you could ask the vet how he knew
Walter had flea anemia? Was it because of the amount of flea dropping/dried
blood that washed off of him or was it because of the result from a
hematocrit? If Water was anemic he would need packed red blood cells. I
don't think most vets have type-specific fresh packed cat RBCs on hand.
While fluids will rehydrate and increase volume, if there are not enough
RBCs to carry oxygen the body cannot survive.
As I think someone else said, sometimes severely ill cats do not present as
deathly sick. From the outside your cat may have just looked like he had an
infected tail. I think you also said that the temperature rapidly increased
recently which will cause the rate of dehydration to go up also.
Fly eggs can hatch in less than a day. If the weather was really hot they
will incubate and hatch more rapidly. I am trying to remember, but I think
fly eggs are quite hardy. I don't know if H2O2 will do the job on them.
I have no doubt that he was a wonderful and special cat and that you did
the best for him that you could. It sounds like it was a combination of many
factors and it was his time to go. I think there is a bereavement group and
also a web site you might find helpful. I think alt.pet.cats recently had it
posted again. For your own peace of mind, after you have had time to let
this all sink in, you might want to talk to the vet again about what exactly
happened.
Walter knows that you love him:embrace that.
"James Simpson" <jsimp...@JoiMail.com> wrote in message
news:b99p7u$r8b$1...@news.chatlink.com...
James Simpson
news:14677-3EB...@storefull-2331.public.lawson.webtv.net...
>
> James wrote:
> <snip>
> Shirley, Stacia, Rechelle, sue osborn, Tara, Clay Pots, you are the most
> callous, unfeeling, unfair people I've had the misfortune to encounter.
>
> No, their not, they just stated the facts. From the sounds of your post
> you are placing the majority of the blame on the vet when it should be
> placed on YOU. Flea anemia just doesn't come on suddenly it takes quite
> awhile for a healthy adult cat to succumb to it, and with all the flea
> prevention available now a days there is no excuse for it, at all, none,
> nadda! And if you think I work for a vet your correct, and damn tired
> of people like you, (see Vent post)!
>
> Nadine
So, you admit you work for a vet and are therefore biased. My beloved
cat has just died, and you say, with much heartfelt compassion, "From the
sounds of your post you are placing the majority of the blame on the vet
when it should be placed on YOU."
Nadine, I am "damn tired of" callous, unfeeling, downright abusive
"people like you". I have had it with judgemental jerks who know nothing of
my situation, but want to feel superior, telling me what I "Should" have
done. Who the hell are you to judge? You don't know me or my cat. I
explained very clearly that I did what I thought was best for Walter, not
wanting to put him through the unnecessary stress of a vet visit (the vet
said the "stress" of the procedure and sedation caused his death!). I did
what I did because I loved him, you idiot! It hurt me deeply to see him in
any distress, pain or fear, which is how vet visits affected him. And I
wanted save him from any unncessary distress. It hurt me to see him in pain,
because I loved my cat so much. If you disagree with that decision, which
was a HUMAN decision based on my concern for my cat's quality of life, and
want to judge me, that says a lot more about you and your petty
defensiveness for your profession than me.
Actually, I had been feeling very responsible for my cat's death -- "I
should have done this, I should have done that" -- but thanks to judgmental,
superior-acting phonies like you and Stacia, I now realize that I DID THE
BEST I COULD OUT OF LOVE FOR MY CAT. I am a HUMAN BEING who makes mistakes,
just like vets make mistakes (which you would never admit). You hold me to a
higher standard than the vet who has specialized training in treating pets,
blaming me, who lacks medical training, which is not only unfair, it's
wrong. In my case, it is clear that the vet should have given my cat (or
referred me to another vet for) a transfusion and fluids. He did NOT do
either; instead, he put an already weak and anemic cat through an admittedly
"stressful" procedure, with sedation. Mary pointed this out clearly, these
are simple facts you can't deny: "He needed subcutaneous fluids and a blood
transfusion. My cat was a little anemic and dehydrated and my vet did this
for him instantly. The blood loss and dehydration should have been treated
before maggots."
My cat couldn't tell me what was wrong, and I'm not a mind-reading God.
I did the best I could at the time, you jerk! You try to make it seem like I
didn't care about Walter and neglected him, and you are very wrong. You know
nothing, because I cared very deeply for my cat and spent a lot of time with
him (my friends say that is why he was so loving and communicative), and I
was watching his condition closely for several days.
Let me ask you one question, Nadine. I described how much time and
energy I spent in treating my previous cat, "Blackjack", for FeLV. Would YOU
have the dedication and love for a cat with FeLV to do what I did. I cared
for that cat like you would never be willing to do, spending hours *every
day* force feeding him 3 times a day for 3 months, to keep his strength up
while he got chemotherapy for Lymphosarcoma. Blackjack was a very good
patient and allowed me to force feed him (even seemed to like it), to put
eyedrops in his eyes for glaucoma (no problem), and nose drops (he even
leaned his head back for me) for his chronic nasal drainage several times
every day. That cat was at death's door, he would have died 3 years than he
did had I not intervened, and I worked hard to strengthen his health so that
he actually recovered (I still have the pictures of the day he seemed
totally recovered, walking around the yard, alert and healthy, rubbing on
the bushes and looking around like he had a renewed relish for life). The
Lymphosarcoma was in complete remission, and never came back, and he stopped
having any infections. Would you be willing to force feed YOUR own cat water
and food, give him extra vitamins, spend $4000 on chemotherapy, give him
eyedrops 3 times a day for glaucoma, and nose drops twice a day for chronic
nasal drainage ... every day? Because that's what I did, Ms. Judgmental
Jerk. I would have done the same for Walter, but he went too fast.
I suddenly realized tonight, and a friend mentioned the same thing, that
I was really only about one day late in getting him to the vet. I took him
first thing Monday a.m., and didn't wait until after I "played golf" (I
don't even play golf). I took off work and let nothing delay me *once I
fully realized* he had to go to the vet. I had been watching him closely for
several days (and nights), worried about the weight loss, but he was still
eating and drinking until about 36 hours before he died. I only waited one
day after he seemed to stop eating before taking him to the vet. And if you
can't accept that I wanted to spare him the stress and trauma of a vet visit
unless necessary, and still want to judge, I don't normally talk this way,
but you can go to hell. You have no right to judge, and no right to compare
my situation with the (probably fictional) owner in your thread "Vent", who
brought in a "deathly ill" pet, and "wanted to bring it in as late as
possible, as they play golf in the early afternoon". I did NOT stop to play
golf before taking my cat to the vet. I loved my cat with all my heart; the
owners you described didn't. I did the best I could with what I knew, since
Walter had exhibited *identical* symptoms during the summer from his
allergies. To tell me I "Should" have done this or that is patently unfair,
and a very CRUEL thing to say to a grieving pet lover.
How can people like you be so callous and CRUEL to a grieving owner,
especially when I explained that vet visits were stressful for Walter, and I
was trying to save him from any unnecessary trauma or stress of a vet visit?
Of course, I wish I had taken him to a vet sooner, in hindsight, and it will
haunt me forever, but now, thanks to you, I realize that it was a human
mistake made out of love and concern for my cat and my wanting to spare him
any trauma and distress.
You are one very *mean-spirited* person, Nadine; you have distorted my
situation in a particularly nasty manner -- "From the sounds of your post
you are placing the majority of the blame on the vet when it should be
placed on YOU." That is completely untrue and unfair, and a CRUEL to say to
a grieving owner, and you know it. You should be deeply ashamed and
apologize, but I won't hold my breath. You have no right to judge. Your
judging me is nothing more than projection. You are projecting onto me your
own inadequacies and failures in caring, as exemplified by your extremely
nasty, unfair response, which was devoid of any trace of compassion or
caring for my obviously very deep loss. You should be ashamed, deeply.
Why don't you go call up some of the families of 9/11 victims and blame
them for the deaths of their loved ones, maybe that'd make you feel better?
To berate a grieving owner (that's pretty low) who did the best he could is
shameful, and says a lot more about sanctimonious judgers, like you, than
the person you are judging. Do you enjoy drowning puppies, too? I believe
you, and others like Rechelle who have responded with such ugly, judgmental,
sanctimonious accusations, have lost touch with your sense of humanity and
compassion. I'm a human being who did the best he could, loved his cat
deeply and wanted to save his life, and you have no right, NO right, to
judge. You are no better than anyone else (despite your lofty judging), and
you are distinctly lacking in compassion and caring (which I consider the
most important of all human traits).
James
M.C. Mullen
| callous, unfeeling, unfair people I've had the misfortune to encounter. I
| HAVE been blaming myself, and I said as much, so thanks for rubbing it in!
| I am in the deepest grief, and all you do is BLAME me. You say I "should
| have taken him in immediately", tell me I "should" have used a flea collar
| (which don't work!), state *incorrectly* "not eating for 2-3 days can
be...
| fatal" (not drinking water for several days, more than 2-3, can be fatal.
| But not eating for that short time is NOT fatal), and accuse me of "a
| pattern" of unwillingness "to properly care" for my cat. According to Dr.
| Stephen Susaneck, an expert vet oncologist (who has about $4000 of my
money
| for caring for my cat who had FeLV), it takes more than 2-3 days for a cat
| to become dangerously dehydrated, because for some reason they are able to
| store water better than other animals. Walter last drank water, to my
| knowledge, about 36 hours before his death. He liked drinking from the
| bathtub faucet, so I left it dripping for several days before he died so
he
| would be more likely to drink! When he didn't drink the day before his
| death, I realized he would have to go to the vet.
<snip>
The problem is that you had no time to come to terms with the fact that
Walter would die. It came too suddenly and you didn't expect it.
This hurts. You had no time to get used to the thought of a probable loss,
and now you're just forced to accept it.
It's much easier to accept a death when a pet dies slowly like when it's
terminally ill.
| There is one fact that remains that Shirley and the other callous people
| have denied, which is why I suspect they are vets or work for vets. Mary
| pointed this out succinctly, and this cannot be refuted: "He needed
| subcutaneous fluids and a blood transfusion. My cat was a little anemic
and
| dehydrated and my vet did this for him instantly. The blood loss and
| dehydration should have been treated before maggots." I will also always
| feel responsible that I missed the signs, maybe because I was in denial
| because in the past I had a cat that died who I loved dearly. But to
accuse
| me of not properly caring for my cat is not only callous, it's untrue,
which
| Walter, wherever he is, knows. Everyday, I showed that cat how much I
loved
| him, and, had I knew the seriousness of his condition, I would have taken
| him to a vet sooner.
| James
You have to accept all that was going on and maybe went wrong. A blood
transfusion might have been too much stress too.
Think through all the ifs and buts like you do now, it's the way to come to
terms with the shock over the loss of Walter.
And eventually the thankfulness that you could own such an extraordinary cat
will remain.
Carola
James Simpson
news:3eba0c8b$0$1044$5402...@news.sunrise.ch...
Thanks, it's been very hard, harder than the last cat I lost, because he was
so communicative, always calling out to me and jumping up in my arms like a
child. But I realized I would have taken him to the vet sooner if I had
known his condition. I didn't know his condition was so bad, so I know I
can't blame myself, but it's hard not to second-guess. I think I was in some
denial too, that I sort of thought if I didn't take him to the vet he
wouldn't be sick, that it was just the allergies as usual. I know now that
no one could have known, including me. But it still hurts that I couldn't
save him. It'll take a long time to work through this, because Walter was so
human-like, the way he'd jump in my arms and hug me like a human with his
arms around my neck and head burrowed in my face, and call out to me from
another room when he couldn't even see me. That's the hard stuff to remember
and not hurt. Yes, this'll take a while.
James
M.C. Mullen
Whenever I loose a pet, even if it is just because of old age, then I'm
badly upset.
But what *really* kills me is when they have to suffer before they can pass
away.
And thankfully with Walter this wasn't the case, good!
----
Carola
(to reply remove c and invalid)
Josh
"James Simpson" <jsimp...@JoiMail.com> wrote in message
>
> state *incorrectly* "not eating for 2-3 days can be...
> fatal" (not drinking water for several days, more than 2-3, can be fatal.
> But not eating for that short time is NOT fatal),
Actually, there is the potential that a cat who doesn't eat for several days
can develop a condition called hepatic lipidosis, which can be fatal. Cats
not eating for several days is not good at all.
You've also alluded to a blood transfusion potentially saving your cat's
life. If I'm not mistaken, your cat was a persian. Given the blood group
interactions among cats, transfusing your cat presents some difficulties.
95% of you garden-variety DSH/DMH/DLH cats in the U.S. are in the Type A
blood group. 20% of "purebred" cats are in the Type B blood group.
Virtually all cats in the type B group have high titers of anti-A
antibodies. Transfusing a type B cat with type A blood will cause a bad
transfusion reaction, which is especially nasty for a cat who is already
ill. Typing and cross matching is something some vets don't have the
facility to do, and if your cat had been type B, finding a donor for him
would have been tough.
Sorry for you loss.
Dee
> Dee wrote:
> > H0ppy went to see the oncologist on Monday, and stayed overnight on
> > fluids. On Tuesday an endoscopy with biopsies and a liver
> aspiration
> > were performed. She said that while she does see some inflamation
> in
> > the intestines, it doesn't look bad enough to be the lymphosarcoma
> that was suspected (of course we have to wait for the results of the
> > biopsies to be sure about the cancer). The liver looked so normal
> > that she didn't even bother to send the slides in, and he's
> > definitely leukemia negative. While all these things are great news,
> > he's still a pretty sick little guy and we don't know what's wrong
> > with him. He was given an injection of steroids to lessen
> > inflamation and help increase his appetite.
> >
> I'm so glad you had that done.. poor little h0p. :( Did the vet say
> IBD is suspect? With the inflammation and the use of steroids, it
> sounds like it to me (based on my own limited experience)
Yes Cheryl, IBD is suspected, although she said that it didn't look bad
enough to be causing him to be as ill as he is, so she, and we, are still
in a quandry.
What
> wonderful news that they think they are ruling out the lymphosarcoma,
Yep, and also that his feline leukemia test came back negative. I'd hate
to think of all the other cats I'd exposed to it (mine, my bf's, my
friend's whose cats I sit for, and on and on!). I was warned not to get
too excited until the results of those biopsies are back though.
> but those are all the same exact words I heard when Shadow had his
> problems last year (down to suspecting FeLV even before he actually
> got it) and the biopsy revealed IBD.
My Sunny had IBD, so I'm pretty familiar with the route.
Once you know, then it will be
> time to discuss with your vet how to proceed. By any chance did you
> go to Greenbelt for an IM referral?
I was referred by my regular vet at Lynn Animal Hospital (good people).
Beltway Fererral has a night/weekend emergency hospital where specialists
work during the day. That's where his cardiologist and oncologist are.
If
so, I've heard wonderful
> things. That was going to be my next step, either that or the Barn in
> Gaithersburg (but that's a HIKE!)
Haha! That's where his neurologist is, and yes, it is a hike! They took
good care of him though, they were the ones who diagnosed the
toxoplasmosis and got the seizures under control.
> > p.s. Soon I'll be writing to ask about George, who has become so
> > freaked out by all of this that all he'll do is hide and poop on the
> > floor :/
>
> Skritches for George!
Thanks Cheryl, he loves that :)
Dee
James Simpson
news:2ekua.49924$B61...@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
>
> "James Simpson" <jsimp...@JoiMail.com> wrote in message
> news:b9cgdr$ke8$1...@news.chatlink.com...
> > callous, unfeeling, unfair people I've had the misfortune to encounter.
>
>
> The way your post read is you weren't blaming yourself, you were blaming
the
> vet. The vet is not responsible for Walter's death. I'm sorry but as
soon
> as you noticed the oozing, you should've taken him in to be *sure* it was
> the same thing. Instead you *assumed*. I am terribly sorry for your
loss,
> I have been there myself. But I also take my cats to the vets if I notice
> that they haven't eaten or drank. Or if they have any new sores, even if
I
> am sure what it is.
> My 4 year old, Shadow, had ring worm. It was a rare
> form & noncontagious, but I dragged him to 3 vets to get it treated
*because
> he was suffering*. That would've been the right thing to do for Walter.
I did NOT assume anything. I did the best I could with the knowledge I
had. You are still blaming and still being judgmental, and that is extremely
unhelpful and unfair. You snipped my reply in which I explained the
multitude of circumstances that converged over a short 2-3 day period, like
the weather *suddenly* turning very hot and very humid, which increased both
fleas and flies, that I did not know he had a bad flea problem due to his
long hair, that it looked *exactly* like his usual allergies, and that I was
trying to avoid having to put Walter through the stress of taking him to the
vet, because he was always *very* stressed by vet visits. I wanted to save
him from that stress unless absolutely necessary, because he was a very high
strung cat who got very upset at the vet.
Again, who are you to judge? Hindsight is 20/20 and you're holding me up
to an impossible standard, to have acted as though I had hindsight when the
condition came up very fast and could have fooled anyone, especially when he
had had *identical* symptom from his allergies. You people have no right to
judge. I did the best I could, with what I knew, and someday, a similar
situation may happen with you.
> Again, I am truly sorry for your loss. It is never easy to lose a beloved
> pet. But blood transfusions are *not* commonplace and Walter was already
in
> a weakened state. A severe infestation of fleas can severely weaken the
> system and can cause stress by itself. Add onto that the trip to the vet,
> the needle for sedation & it is very believable that Walter would not have
> survived the blood transfusion or even being rehydrated.
>
> But you do need to quit blaming your vet.
Oh, and start blaming myself, isn't that what you mean? You need to stop
judging. I explained very clearly the way multiple conditions that led me to
believe Walter was not as sick as he was. It's not for you to loftily judge
others, when the same thing could happen to you someday. You could be fooled
that a condition isn't serious, fail to take your vet, and your pet die. So
STOP JUDGING. I gave Walter a lot of love and care, probably more than
you're capable of giving your pet, he knew it, and I know he loved me as
much as I loved him, and all your judging can never change that, or the fact
that I did my best under the confusing and strange circumstances which would
have made it difficult for anyone to know the "right" thing to do,
especially with a cat so severely stressed by vet visits. You have no right
to judge, so stop it.
James
Tara
> Actually, I had been feeling very responsible for my cat's death -- "I
> should have done this, I should have done that" -- but thanks to judgmental,
> superior-acting phonies like you and Stacia, I now realize that I DID THE
> BEST I COULD OUT OF LOVE FOR MY CAT. I am a HUMAN BEING who makes mistakes,
> just like vets make mistakes (which you would never admit).
Had you even come close to stating this in your original post, ,I don't
think you would have received anything near the "wake up calls" you
ended up getting. By the way, you were not flamed once. People were, on
the whole, pretty gentle about trying to help you see that no vet could
have undone what had already been done to your cat.
Yes, you are a human being who makes mistakes....we all are. And this is
understandable and reasonable. What people were obviously reacting to
was the fact that you were totally unwilling to admit this in your first
post. Slinging sh!t at an innocent person who did nothing but try to
save your cat is a crappy thing to do, IMO. We all are capable of acting
out in our grief and when we hurt, but for you to now lay everyone else
in your sites (is it really that important to you that someone else
ALWAYS be at fault for something....even strangers on a computer
screen???) is just as wrong.
We don't know you from Adam....and suddenly you're posting a
heartbreaking scenario in which a cat died from avoidable circumstances.
That alone is painful. But before you've even got the first sentence
out, you're thrusting blame at an innocent party. That was plain wrong.
I'm truly sorry that you've lost your friend. And, no, I don't (nor did
I ever) accuse you of neglect or not loving your cat. I think you made a
big mistake and all I ever said was that I hope that rather then just
continue to lay blame on someone else, you at least learn how this
happened and how to prevent it next time. I still hope you get there.
Tara
Tara
> "Rechelle" <Rechelle....@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>But you do need to quit blaming your vet.
>
>
> Oh, and start blaming myself, isn't that what you mean?
To some, whenever there's anger the nasty finger of blame pops up and
won't go back down. For people like that, I find that they then feel
that finger has to point at SOMEONE.....
Taking responsibility and taking blame are two very different things.
I'm so sorry that you're having difficulty seeing the very real
difference between the two.
Her post was about responsibility. All of yours have been about blame.
They are truly not the same thing. They're not even in the same family.
Tara
Karen
"Tara" <tara....@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:3EBA7BFC...@verizon.net...
one thing that is obvious, this is it. I would really not proliferate this
thread. It really isn't worth it to anyone. My .02
Karen
Agua Girl
"Dee" <pow...@wam.umd.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.SOL.4.44.03050...@rac2.wam.umd.edu...
THANK YOU! I was dumb founded when I learned Sher Khan
had leukemia. Isn't that what those yearly vet trips and vaccines were
for? How could a cat..an indoor cat (he was a sissy about being outside)
get feline leukemia. My vet explained that some cats are just really
susceptible and the vaccine doesn't help. Some cats can be exposed,
not vaccinated..and still not get it. I continue to vaccinate my cats
because
it is effective (and necessary) 90% of the time but to say it is
"preventable" is just not true. Trust me... I know.
AG
Tara
>
> Look everybody, this is about total pain and unreasoning grief.
Fair enough. Good point.
I had a hair trigger about being slammed and insulted by someone who is
making a lot of accusations right now.
I shouldn't have let myself get sucked in. I do feel badly that he's had
to experience all this. I know how much this hurts.
Tara
Sherry
>had leukemia. Isn't that what those yearly vet trips and vaccines were
>for? How could a cat..an indoor cat (he was a sissy about being outside)
>get feline leukemia. My vet explained that some cats are just really
>susceptible and the vaccine doesn't help. Some cats can be exposed,
>not vaccinated..and still not get it. I continue to vaccinate my cats
>because
>it is effective (and necessary) 90% of the time but to say it is
>"preventable" is just not true. Trust me... I know.
>
>AG
>
vaccinated for feline leukemia. Luke got the disease anyway, and died at age 4.
Yoda is past 10 now, and never got it, despite the fact they played together,
fought, ate out of the same bowls, etc. It's a terrible disease, and entirely
unpredictable.
Sherry
Haruspex
I am sorry to read of Walter's demise.
If there is any way I can help, please respond and I will.
Walter must have been a cutie....
Sincerely,
Allison
On Tue, 6 May 2003 21:05:52 -0700,
Haruspex
Dear Dee:
Glad the oncological prospect is ok. But mostly I'm glad he's eating!
Very important! Good kitty!
I wish you the best,, darlin', you hang in there, you can do it! I
know you can!
Allison
Lyn
First, I'd like to say I'm sorry for your loss.
Death from stress is not uncommon in a very sick cat who does not
handle vet visits well.
>I did
> what I did because I loved him, you idiot! It hurt me deeply to see him in
> any distress, pain or fear, which is how vet visits affected him. And I
> wanted save him from any unncessary distress. It hurt me to see him in pain,
> because I loved my cat so much. If you disagree with that decision, which
> was a HUMAN decision based on my concern for my cat's quality of life, and
> want to judge me, that says a lot more about you and your petty
> defensiveness for your profession than me.
> Actually, I had been feeling very responsible for my cat's death -- "I
> should have done this, I should have done that" --
Well, all the blame in the world doesn't help him or you. All you can
do is try to learn from the situation, which I think you are trying to
do.
but thanks to judgmental,
> superior-acting phonies like you and Stacia, I now realize that I DID THE
> BEST I COULD OUT OF LOVE FOR MY CAT. I am a HUMAN BEING who makes mistakes,
> just like vets make mistakes (which you would never admit). You hold me to a
> higher standard than the vet who has specialized training in treating pets,
> blaming me, who lacks medical training, which is not only unfair, it's
> wrong. In my case, it is clear that the vet should have given my cat (or
> referred me to another vet for) a transfusion and fluids. He did NOT do
> either; instead, he put an already weak and anemic cat through an admittedly
> "stressful" procedure, with sedation.
The cat should have had fluids immediately, but may have had to be
sedated to do so. A transfusion, OTOH, isn't to be taken lightly, and
may not have been the best choice for immediate care. Your vet is
probably the best judge of the situation.
>Mary pointed this out clearly, these
> are simple facts you can't deny: "He needed subcutaneous fluids and a blood
> transfusion. My cat was a little anemic and dehydrated and my vet did this
> for him instantly. The blood loss and dehydration should have been treated
> before maggots."
This statement is easy coming from someone who has never worked on a
cat who is maggot-eaten. There is nothing worse than working on a cat
with maggots all over it's butt. Believe me - BTDT. If I were
calling the shots, cleaning and treating the wound would have been
high on the list of priorities. You can't treat a cat that you can't
stand to be around.
I have worked in the veterinary field, and honestly, I would not have
gone to the extremes you have. But it is a personal decision, and you
have to do what you think is right for your cat(s).
> I suddenly realized tonight, and a friend mentioned the same thing, that
> I was really only about one day late in getting him to the vet. I took him
> first thing Monday a.m., and didn't wait until after I "played golf" (I
> don't even play golf). I took off work and let nothing delay me *once I
> fully realized* he had to go to the vet. I had been watching him closely for
> several days (and nights), worried about the weight loss, but he was still
> eating and drinking until about 36 hours before he died. I only waited one
> day after he seemed to stop eating before taking him to the vet. And if you
> can't accept that I wanted to spare him the stress and trauma of a vet visit
> unless necessary, and still want to judge, I don't normally talk this way,
> but you can go to hell. You have no right to judge, and no right to compare
> my situation with the (probably fictional) owner in your thread "Vent", who
> brought in a "deathly ill" pet, and "wanted to bring it in as late as
> possible, as they play golf in the early afternoon". I did NOT stop to play
> golf before taking my cat to the vet. I loved my cat with all my heart; the
> owners you described didn't. I did the best I could with what I knew, since
> Walter had exhibited *identical* symptoms during the summer from his
> allergies. To tell me I "Should" have done this or that is patently unfair,
> and a very CRUEL thing to say to a grieving pet lover.
I agree. You did what you thought was best. Each person has their
own set of knowledge and skills, and you can only do what you judge
best for your cat. On the flip side, vets can only do so much, too.
Many times, they make judgement calls that are wrong. That's one of
the hardest things about being a vet, I've been told.
> How can people like you be so callous and CRUEL to a grieving owner,
> especially when I explained that vet visits were stressful for Walter, and I
> was trying to save him from any unnecessary trauma or stress of a vet visit?
Because rpch&b is home of the Collective Bitches(tm), doncha know.
Like I said before, all you can do is educate yourself so that this
situation does not happen again. I hope you can find some peace over
the coming days and weeks.
-L.
Lyn
> My cat, "Walter", an 11-year-old persian, died yesterday, and I think it
> was completely avoidable. The vet said he had severe "flea anemia".
Just a couple of afterthoughts (I replied to another thread already).
Even seemingly healthy persians sometimes crash on the table. Many
persians in the US have heart conditions which either don't get
diagnosed or don't get diagnosed early enough (or properly).
If your cat hated the vet, he probably would have had to be sedated
regardless of the procedure. If he had weeping sores and maggots,
that would have been high on the priority list of treatments (at the
vets where I used to work) - so that the other treatments could be
administered. Working on a dirty and maggot-infested cat is sometimes
impossible. The bath would also have been necessary to get rid of the
fleas before treating them any further with Advantage or some other
topical spot treatment. FWIW, where I worked, any cat that presents
covered in fleas is immediatedly bathed so that they do not infest the
entire facility.
A blood transfusion may not have been prudent for your cat, but
probably fluids would have been. It seems like your cat just didn't
make it that far.
Please know you did what you thought was best for him. You can't
second-guess yourself - you can only learn what works and what doesn't
and try to do the best you can. Nobody is perfect.
Take care,
-L.
Cheryl
> I would like to extend my deepest sympathies to you on the sudden
> loss of your cat. Sometimes things just happen. It seems to me that
> you are experiencing some really raw emotions. I do not think most
of
> the posters are being intentionally callous. Some people try to
> extend comfort by using reason and analysis whereas, it seems what
> you need right now is emotional support. I think some of the people
> here enjoy dissecting the problem or issues and nudge the emotional
While I'm very sad for the OP, I was ready to plonk this whole thread
because of some of the callousness but you have a very good point
about dissecting the problem - which is the very nature of discussion.
Well put.
--
Cheryl
"If you work hard enough, if you want it bad enough, dreams do come
true. So follow your dreams man, follow your dreams. Because we all
die young." -Rock Star
Eric's tribute: http://www.petitmorte.net/envision
Stacia
>>> Shirley, Stacia, Rechelle, sue osborn, Tara, Clay Pots, you are the
>>> most callous, unfeeling, unfair people I've had the misfortune to
>>> encounter.
>>
>> No, their not, they just stated the facts. From the sounds of your post
>> you are placing the majority of the blame on the vet when it should be
>> placed on YOU. Flea anemia just doesn't come on suddenly it takes quite
>> awhile for a healthy adult cat to succumb to it
> So, you admit you work for a vet and are therefore biased.
James, if she works for a vet she may be knowledgeable. Not biased.
Why would she care about defending a vet she doesn't even know?
> Nadine, I am "damn tired of" callous, unfeeling, downright abusive
>"people like you". I have had it with judgemental jerks who know nothing of
>my situation, but want to feel superior, telling me what I "Should" have
>done. Who the hell are you to judge? You don't know me or my cat.
I'd like to say that I said nothing abusive - I've read Rechelle's and
she's been very nice, as well. Nadine wasn't abusive in the least, she
was blunt but perhaps that's needed here.
As for not knowing you or your cat, well, we know what you've told us,
and if we've made any incorrect assumptions then you should clarify.
Mostly these don't seem like assumptions, they seem pretty well based in
fact.
> Actually, I had been feeling very responsible for my cat's death -- "I
>should have done this, I should have done that" -- but thanks to judgmental,
>superior-acting phonies like you and Stacia,
Buddy, I was a complete weenie in my post, using all sorts of qualifiers
like "maybe we're not hearing everything" and "I'm not trying to jump to
conclusions". Most people here have expressed condolences for your loss,
and most have been very, very gentle. Your name-calling is way out of
line.
> Why don't you go call up some of the families of 9/11 victims and blame
>them for the deaths of their loved ones, maybe that'd make you feel better?
Sigh. This doesn't even make sense.
Dee
> Glad the oncological prospect is ok. But mostly I'm glad he's eating!
> Very important! Good kitty!
>
> I wish you the best,, darlin', you hang in there, you can do it! I
> know you can!
> Allison
Thanks Allison. Little h0p's always been a fighter :)
Dee
Liz
> will incubate and hatch more rapidly. I am trying to remember, but I think
> fly eggs are quite hardy. I don't know if H2O2 will do the job on them.
There's a kind of fly that always lays eggs on live hosts and it lays
from 100 to 300 eggs. They develop very fast and if not taken care of
quickly, they can seriously debilitate or even kill a big animal. I
have a big dog (Kuvasz) and once I took him out for a walk and noticed
he had a slight limp on his hind leg. Brought him back home, examined
him, and he had a hole on his thigh that looked like he had been shot.
Upon closer examination, I noticed there was something moving in
there. Grabbed my vet book and discovered it was fly larvae - this
very nasty one. Made him lay down and put ONE DROP of advantage on the
whole. Within 20 minutes the larvae started crawling out. In one hour,
they were all out. According to my book, the stardard treatment is
Ivermectin shot (I think that's it). Ivermectin is very toxic and the
larvae will die INSIDE the animal, which may result in a terrible
infection. In ten days Ruby had healed completely. During that time I
kept him indoors to make sure another fly wouldn't come and lay eggs
again. So, if hydrogen peroxide doesn't work, try Advantage. It
certainly hurts MUCH LESS than hydrogen peroxide and it's not
poisonous to mammals.
Lindsey R
deadliness in dogs mainly, because they are too large, however in rabbits,
and underfed cats, the larve excrete a toxin when they die. So, it is very
dangerous to remove them, lest they are injured.
As far as the original post goes, I am deeply sorry for your loss sir, but
do not hold it against the vet. All situations are different, and you cannot
just make a flat statement that you know what would have been best for the
cat. Put your faith in your vet, he has had MANY years of training, and
understands what must be done. Not everything works out as planned, and I am
sure that he is deeply sorry for what occured. It would be best for you to
learn from your mistakes, and stop blame shifting. Your cat had a full life,
and it is unfortunate that it was cut of so abruptly, but you cannot change
the past, and all this arguing is doing is preventing your recovery from the
loss of Walter. I know that if Walter couldn't take the water dip, he
probably wouldn't have been able to take a blood transfusion either.
I hope you come to understand that it was not the fault of the vets office.
Please take care, and feel better.
Lindsey and her Kitties.
"Liz" <c86...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:12c83831.03050...@posting.google.com...
James Simpson
news:8Fsua.6728$Zb5....@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
> "James Simpson" <jsimp...@JoiMail.com> wrote in message
> to
> > judge. I did the best I could, with what I knew, and someday, a similar
> > situation may happen with you.
> >
or
> humid anywhere in the state. Unless you haven't lived here long, this is
> *normal* Texas weather and flea meds start getting applied generally, at
the
> latest, of March.
You're still judging, not that I'm surprised, it's all you can do. For your
info, in my part of Texas it did indeed get hotter, and much more humid,
this past weekend. Prior to this weekend, it had been down in the 70's or
low 80's at night, but suddenly this past Sunday night it was in the 90's at
midnight, at which time it had been cooling down significantly in the recent
past. I told a friend who called me Sunday that it felt like summer had just
arrived, because it was suddenly much more hot and humid even at night.
> If Walter got so stressed just by going to the vet, why is it so hard to
> believe that in his very weakened condition that the procedure of just
> *sedating* him caused him to pass away? That the vet did the best he
could?
Like Nadine, you do work for a vet, don't you? Your sole purpose in this has
been to *blame* me and tell me what I "should" have done: "... when you
noticed a problem you SHOULD have taken him in immediately. You also SHOULD
have controlled the flea problem by using flea medication once a month ...
there is a lot more you COULD have done to save Walter's life" [caps my
emphasis]. Telling people that "Should" have done this or that is JUDGING,
and blaming. And you are in no position to judge anyone, being far, far from
perfect (sorry to break the news). Whenever you use the phrase "you should
have", you ARE judging, so stop lying about your judgmental, blaming
response to me.
Now, if you can't see how incredibly callous and CRUEL it was to blame me
for my cat's death immediately after he died, I can't help you. You,
Shirley, Stacia, sue osborn, etc. are going in my killfile. I've seen this
sort of judgmental behavior in other newsgroups, but am really surprised to
see it so much in a cat newsgroup, where one would expect to find people who
are more sensitive and caring than most.
> > Oh, and start blaming myself, isn't that what you mean? You need to stop
> > judging. I explained very clearly the way multiple conditions that led
> > me to believe Walter was not as sick as he was. It's not for you to
loftily
> > judge others, when the same thing could happen to you someday. You could
> > be fooled that a condition isn't serious, fail to take your pet to a
vet, and your
> > pet die. So STOP JUDGING. I gave Walter a lot of love and care, probably
> > more than you're capable of giving your pet, he knew it, and I know he
loved
> > me as much as I loved him, and all your judging can never change that,
or the
> > fact that I did my best under the confusing and strange circumstances
which
> > would have made it difficult for anyone to know the "right" thing to do,
> > especially with a cat so severely stressed by vet visits. You have no
> > right to judge, so stop it.
> > James
>
> I am not saying to blame yourself either.
Oh, so that's why you said "... when you noticed a problem you SHOULD have
taken him in immediately. You also SHOULD have controlled the flea problem
by using flea medication once a month ... there is a lot more you COULD have
done to save Walter's life". Thanks for clearing that up <sarcasm>. You're
telling me you don't see the judgmental, BLAMING nature of your "SHOULD"
remarks to me? Grow up and stop LYING about your remarks, which were
obviously blaming and judgmental.
> I am saying to not blame the vet
> for doing what he thought was the best for Walter. Let Walter rest in
> peace. He deserves that much. Hindsight & judging & blaming yourself or
> the vet isn't going to bring him back. I am truly sorry for your loss.
I don't believe you, and I think you work for a vet or have some other need
to defend vets, which you don't admit. If you had an ounce of compassion or
sensitivity you wouldn't have blamed me -- "you SHOULD have taken him in
immediately" -- which makes it all the more clear that you either work for a
vet or have some other need to defend vets in general. I've had it with you
judgmental people who lack any compassion for a pet owner grieving over the
loss of a pet who just died three days ago, and rather than responding with
sympathy, respond by judging and blaming. You have NO right to judge, but
you'll never admit that. Instead, look in the mirror if you want to judge
someone for lacking the ability to care for others in need of support, like
a grieving pet owner who did the best he could at the time given a confusing
and complicated situation. People like you who make judgments ("you should
have ...") about others are nothing but petty and small. PLONK
James
James Simpson
> "James Simpson" <jsimp...@JoiMail.com> writes:
> >"Nadine" <Nadin...@webtv.net> wrote:
> >> James wrote:
> >> <snip>
>
> >>> Shirley, Stacia, Rechelle, sue osborn, Tara, Clay Pots, you are the
> >>> most callous, unfeeling, unfair people I've had the misfortune to
> >>> encounter.
> >>
> >> No, their not, they just stated the facts. From the sounds of your
post
> >> you are placing the majority of the blame on the vet when it should be
> >> placed on YOU. Flea anemia just doesn't come on suddenly it takes
quite
> >> awhile for a healthy adult cat to succumb to it
>
> > So, you admit you work for a vet and are therefore biased.
>
> James, if she works for a vet she may be knowledgeable. Not biased.
> Why would she care about defending a vet she doesn't even know?
She's defending her profession, that's why. Trouble is, in defending her
profession, she callously and unfairly attacked a pet owner grieving deeply
over a pet lost only three days ago. Of course Nadine is biased and not
objective on the topic of vets who make mistakes!
> > Nadine, I am "damn tired of" callous, unfeeling, downright abusive
> >"people like you". I have had it with judgemental jerks who know nothing
of
> >my situation, but want to feel superior, telling me what I "Should" have
> >done. Who the hell are you to judge? You don't know me or my cat.
>
> I'd like to say that I said nothing abusive - I've read Rechelle's and
> she's been very nice, as well.
You're kidding, right? Rechelle said this: "... when you noticed a
problem you SHOULD have taken him in immediately. You also SHOULD have
controlled the flea problem by using flea medication once a month ... there
is a lot more you COULD have done to save Walter's life". And you call this
"nice"? The fact that you define these judgmental, blaming "Should have"
statements to be "nice" says a lot about your twisted definition of the word
"nice".
> Nadine wasn't abusive in the least, she
> was blunt but perhaps that's needed here.
Of course you think that. Just like Rachelle and Nadine, you are coarse,
callous, and insensitive, and you rationalize your complete lack of
sensitivity by claiming that you're "just being honest", don't you? I am
tired of people who claim they're "just being honest" when they attack and
blame a grieving, or otherwise hurt person, and then say, "but I was just
being honest". . That's just an excuse to be insensitive and nasty and
judgmental. I have had it with judgmental jerks, who are no better than
others, but think they have the right to judge others. You have no right to
judge. "Kick them when they're down", that's your motto, isn't it?
> As for not knowing you or your cat, well, we know what you've told us,
> and if we've made any incorrect assumptions then you should clarify.
> Mostly these don't seem like assumptions, they seem pretty well based in
> fact.
Your logic is seriously deranged, just like your twisted definition of
"nice". You and the others like Rechelle and Shirley have been JUDGING and
blaming, without having all the facts, case closed. And I do suspect this is
because you work for a vet, just like Nadine admitted.
> > Actually, I had been feeling very responsible for my cat's death --
"I
> >should have done this, I should have done that" -- but thanks to
judgmental,
> >superior-acting phonies like you and Stacia,
>
> Buddy, I was a complete weenie in my post, using all sorts of qualifiers
> like "maybe we're not hearing everything" and "I'm not trying to jump to
> conclusions". Most people here have expressed condolences for your loss,
> and most have been very, very gentle. Your name-calling is way out of
> line.
So, you're a hypocrite too, also like Nadine. You act as if you're "just
being honest" and basing your comments on "facts", but the fact is your and
others' comments have been judgmental, nasty, and unfair, and not based on
all the "facts". I was the one being a weenie in calling you "judgmental,
superior-acting phonies". I was just being overly "nice", to use your
terminology.
> > Why don't you go call up some of the families of 9/11 victims and
blame
> >them for the deaths of their loved ones, maybe that'd make you feel
better?
>
> Sigh. This doesn't even make sense.
Yes it does. I'm referring to people like you who have such low self-esteem
they have to build themselves up by *kicking people when they're down*. I
had just lost my cat, and you, mustering all the compassion for a grieving
owner you could give, blamed me for the death of my cat: "... you failed to
do simple procedures that could have saved the cat."
I am not the only one who has noticed the insensitive and cruel comments
posters like you have made. Cheryl wrote, "I was ready to plonk this whole
thread because of some of the callousness." So, I'm not alone in seeing the
callousness of posters like you and Shirley and Rachelle. What the hell is
wrong with you people? Can't you just offer support without judging?
You're not God, and you're far from perfect, so you have NO right to judge
me or anyone else. Fact is, your petty, immature judging and blaming says a
lot more about you than me. I'd tell you to develop a sense of compassion
and basic human decency, but that's obviously beyond people like you and
Shirley, Stacia, etc. Grow Up!
James
--
"Some people are just shits, darling" - William Burroughs
James Simpson
news:b9ebov$ih4f7$1...@ID-145712.news.dfncis.de...
> "James Simpson" <jsimp...@JoiMail.com> wrote in message
> > "Shirley" <s.hol...@ntlworld.com> wrote
> > "Blame your vet for what is an easily preventable cause of death among
> cats
> > and kittens !!! Are you for real ??"
>
> <snipped>
>
> > Shirley, Stacia, Rechelle, sue osborn, Tara, Clay Pots, you are the most
> > callous, unfeeling, unfair people I've had the misfortune to encounter.
>
> post. You were/are quite happy to blame your vet but don't seem able to
> handle being told about your own responsibility with respect to your cats
> death.
Your post is so filled with LIES and HATE, I wasn't going to respond, but
just this once... My so-called "responsibility with respect to" my "cats
death" (as you state so sensitively) involves the fact that I am a human
being who is not "perfect". I do the best I can, and make honest mistakes.
When you use the word "responsibility", you're implying I either
deliberately or through gross negligence and lack of caring, allowed my cat
to die. That is a LIE, and you know it. I worshipped the ground Walter
walked on, and never neglected him, and I showed him a ton of affection and
love. He was crazy about me, always running up to me and jumping in my arms
and then on my shoulders, talking the whole time. You're just JEALOUS that I
had the sweetest, cutest, most animated, talkative, communicative cat ever
(objectively speaking). You're so full of hate, you want to imply that I
didn't care for Walter, but you're dead wrong. You're doing this, of course,
to hurt my feelings. (How nice) Here I am, grieving over the loss of my best
friend, having images of him running up to me and jumping in my arms and
hugging me, my heart is breaking, and you're trying to say I didn't care
about him? You're trying to hurt me further in my grief, by making me doubt
the depth of my love for my most beloved cat of all time. You LOSE. I loved
Walter, he loved me, and he knew I loved him completely and would do
anything for him (like leave the bathtub running a little at night so he
could drink fresh water). You LOSE in your attempt to hurt me in such a
deep way, because you can not shake my certainty that the love I had for
Walter is forever, that he will always be in my heart (as Blackjack is
also), and that he knew it and loved me back exactly the same way.
You were very bothered that I criticized my vet for not giving my cat fluids
(he was dehydrated) or even mentioning the possibility of a blood
transfusion, which I continue to believe could have saved his life. I never
said the vet was solely responsible, but you inferred that. It was, of
course, a confluence of several environmental factors, like the hotter
weather, which brings more fleas and flies, possibly his skin allergies, his
age, the fact that several of my mom's had had a cold recently and I thought
Walter just had a cold also since he was sniffling a little, etc. It seemed
like everything bad that could have happened, happened at once. Which is why
several friends have said "It was just his time". That seemed to be the
case, but it does not change the fact that a transfusion, or at the very
least fluids, could have made the difference between life and death. And I
see no reason why the vet didn't even consider either fluids or a
transfusion *before* putting him through a procedure, with partial sedation,
that was "stressful". The vet bears some of the responsibility, which you
don't admit at all. You take one side, the vet's, which shows that you're
biased and I suspect, though you deny it, that you have some personal reason
for defending vet's, just like Nadine who admitted she works at a vet
clinic.
> > The fact is, my cat's condition came up suddenly over 2 or 3 days. The
> > weather has *suddenly* turned very hot and very humid, and so fleas have
> > increased dramatically, but I could not see them on Walter due to his
long
> > hair, and never saw him scratching. IOW, I DID NOT KNOW he had a bad
flea
> > problem. I explained that every summer it has been a pattern for Walter
to
> > lose some weight and eat less, and to get a rash due to allergies that
> > oozed just like the one on his tail. It looked *exactly* like his usual
> > allergies. How could I know it was different? I couldn't.
>
> Walter was a long haired cat ? You groomed him at least once a week (more
> basic care)?
Of course, and the vet had given him prednisone-type depot shots several
times when the skin allergy got bad, but that's a trade off, since steroids
depress the immune system and can lead to all sorts of worse problems than a
rash that really didn't bother Walter much.
> So how could you MISS a flea infestation that would lead to
> death from aneamia ? Could it just be possible that Walters allergy/rash
was
> in fact a flea allergy ? If one of my cats had a re-occuring rash that
oozed
> I would take preventative measures not just accept it happens every year.
> The flea load needed to cause fatal anemia in an otherwise healthy cat is
> enormous and it wouldn't happen in just a couple of days
I didn't say the rash oozed all the time, but that he had little scabs
around his neck and on his back and tail. I assumed the skin must have oozed
at some point to cause the scabs to form, possibly from scratching. His tail
was oozing a little the night before he died, which is when I patted it dry
with a kleenex and put hydrogen peroxide on it twice. As far as fleas, I
combed and brushed his hair thoroughly and only rarely saw 1 or 2 fleas.
Maybe they hid in the deeper layers of his hair (he was persian) and I
couldn't see them. So, you gonna blame me now for not trying harder to find
fleas? How will you try to make me feel bad next? I can't wait!
> > The fact is, I was trying to avoid having to put Walter through the
stress
> > of taking him to the vet, because he was always *very* stressed by vet
> > visits, and it hurt me terribly to put him through any stress. The vet
> > told me he died due to being "stressed" by the procedure, even though he
was
> > partly sedated, which gives an idea of how stressful vet visits were for
> > him.
>
> But you left him to suffer until he was in such a weakened state that the
> stress killed him !!!
Well, you outdid yourself with that hateful comment, an obvious attempt,
once again, to blame me and make me feel bad. You're such a "nice" person,
aren't you? I did NOT leave "him to suffer", you LIAR. I already said I
tried to avoid putting Walter through the stress of a vet visit, as he was
always very stressed seeing the vet. Stress is not healthy either, and not
knowing he was anemic, I watched him closely until I could see that he
needed to see the vet. I was trying to spare him unnecessary trauma, but I'm
sure you'll find a way to demonize me for not wanting my cat to have any
unnecessary trauma or pain.
> > I obviously made another mistake about Walter,
> > attempting to seek support on usenet. My mistake for thinking that cat
> > lovers would be sensitive and caring (most are, but there's always
> > exceptions, obviously).
>
> No your mistake was trying to blame your vet, if you had accepted
> responsibility for your part in what happened my reply would have been
very
> different.
Right, so if I had said it was my fault, you would have agreed? You're a
piece of work, Shirley (or is it "Shoiley"?), but it won't work with me. My
"responsibility" was that I loved my cat dearly and provided him shelter and
good food, allowed him to go outside to the fenced back yard (he never left,
but loved), and watched his health to see if he ever needed to see the vet.
I waited about only one day too late to get him to the vet, but NOT through
any negligence or lack of caring, but rather because I did care for his
well-being, knowing that he was stressed seeing the vet and wanting to avoid
him having to undergo stress (which is unhealthy!). The worst you can say
is that I made a very HUMAN mistake in waiting too long. You can't say that
I was neglectful or uncaring, and you know it. You LOSE again in trying to
hurt my feelings further while I continue to go through a very deep grief
for my loss. How very "compassionate" of you; you must feel good about
yourself! <sarcasm>
Now, I'm snipping the rest of your attempts to "kick 'em while they're
down" (your motto), because I don't have to waste any more time defending
myself against the likes of such a hateful, mean-spirited person as you.
You're not worth the time. You LOSE all the way around; you not only didn't
hurt my feelings further and make me doubt the depth of my love for Walter,
you strengthened my knowledge that Walter knew I loved him and held his
health and happiness foremost.
Human mistakes, like not knowing a cat is anemic and needs to see a vet,
do not constitute "responsibility" as you are trying to shove it at me. Your
"responsibility" means that I'm a bad person who didn't care for his cat
enough to guard his health, however, that presumes that all owners would
have to be God's that could mind read and always know if a cat is sick and
needs to see a vet.
Even you admit, "Cats are very good at hiding symptoms of illness (it's
a survival instinct) until they're quite ill", and yet because you are mad
at me for placing some of the blame on the vet (yeah, you don't work for a
vet, right?), you are willing to distort the issue by accusing me of not
caring enough about my cat, a clear attempt to manipulate me to feel guilty
and more depressed about my cat's death. How nice of you. But you LOSE
again.
I accept that I am human, and if I made any mistakes, they were just
that, inadverdent mistakes, not any kind of "pattern" indicating a lack of
caring, but just mistakes that all humans make. In other words, you LOSE
again. I am not to blame for my cat's death, because I know full well I
always had his best interests at heart and only wanted to save him from any
trauma or pain, I always wanted the best for him and gave him lots of loving
affection (which is by itself healthful, for cat and owner), and I will not
feel guilty or "responsible" for making inadverdent, very human mistakes,
especially when my main goal was to avoid him ever undergoing trauma or
pain!
Sorry, but you LOSE in your attempts to lash out and hurt me. Thank you
for strengthening my feeling of eternal connection with Walter, I know that
he knows I love him and tried my best to keep him safe and sheltered, but
that I am not perfect. And that's okay, no one's perfect. Thank you. I feel
like a great weight has lifted, Walter is okay, and in time the grief will
lessen and I'll always have wonderful memories of the greatest, most loving,
funny, communicative cat of all time (objectively speaking). And all you
have is jealousy. How sad for you.
James
Shirley
From: "Shirley" <s.hol...@ntlworld.com>
Newsgroups: rec.pets.cats.health+behav
Subject: Re: Was my cat's death avoidable if he had had a blood transfusion?
Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 17:25:21 +0100
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"James Simpson" <jsimp...@JoiMail.com> wrote in message
news:b9auof$ik4$1...@news.chatlink.com...
<snip>
> I thought he was a competent vet, but he just failed to take the time
to
> assess and do the right things, in the right order. I've learned a hard
> lesson from this, that if a pet seems really sick to go to a facility like
> the oncologist who treated my last cat, one that has available
transfusions,
> MRI equipment, the works, spare no expense if it seems serious. Otherwise,
> you end up with second-class care and may lose the pet. It's hard not to
> look back and second-guess myself, that I should have taken him to a
better
> vet, but inevitable in grief, I guess. Thanks,
> James
>
Blame your vet for what is an easily preventable cause of death among cats
and kittens !!! Are you for real ??
I took in a litter of kittens 8 weeks old, the owner of the mother spent
ages telling me how much she loved her cat and how hard it was for her to
part with the kittens - as soon as she left I took one of the kittens to the
vet as I was worried about it and it died during the exam - FLEA ANEAMIA -
if this woman had given her cat and it's kittens basic care the kitten would
not have died.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------
The above is my original reply, based on that you chose to attack me, call
me names, send me an abusive e-mail. I can't be bothered to cut and paste
your vitriolic reply here (it's over in RPCHB) but I then gave you a dose of
your own medicine, it seems you can dish it out but not take it in return.
In all of this it's your cat I feel sorry for.
I suspect you are a troll trying to stir up trouble.
--
Shirley
see my cats at
http://communities.msn.co.uk/Friendsfamilyandfelines2
http://uk.msnusers.com/friendsfamilyandfelines3
"James Simpson" <jsimp...@JoiMail.com> wrote in message
news:b9fsqj$vmh$1...@news.chatlink.com...
simpson
--
James Simpson <jsimp...@JoiMail.com> wrote in message
news:b99p7u$r8b$1...@news.chatlink.com...
> My cat, "Walter", an 11-year-old persian, died yesterday, and I think
it
Firstly James I'm so sorry for your loss. I used to run a reptile sanctury
(okay not cats but a sick animal is a sick animal) when we got an animal in
they were invariably dehydrated. The first thing I ever did was give them
Duphalyte hyperdermically. Often they would be moving with ticks and lice,
but the slightest wrinking of the skin and whiteness of mouth and the first
thing we ever did was to re-hydrate and stabalise the shock.
I would have thought that your vet would do this and then as you say
transfuse, but even if that's what should have been done it's not going to
bring your fella back. Poor thing.
So sorry for your hurting
Sooz.
simpson
>
> > When my kitty had a cold so bad he wouldn't drink, the fine folks here
> > suggested an eyedropper of water in the corner of his mouth. It really
> > does work well, it makes the kitty drink even if he doesn't want to.
>
> Ill cats are almost always dehydrated. you can also give a little
> unflavored pedialyte in a dropped to rehydrate and increase electrolytes.
>
> Dee
>
I think you're all being a bit quick to fire bullets here. It's easy to be
critical and judgemental when your kitty is sitting on the rug hale and
hearty and purring like a vibrator. If James 'let' his cat get like that,
never treated, couldn't care less then fine fire away.
But from reading his post he sounds like a responsible owner to me. He's
said that his cat had long term allergies therefore his cat was probably
already recieving vetenary care. The blokes said he would gladly pay for
the work, he doesn't sound to me like someone who wouldn't buy flea
treatment.
My friend took in a cat called Copper, she was a lovely natured cat, but she
was the skinniest,scabbiest, baldest thing you've ever seen. Annie put it
down to neglect and took her straight to the vet to be fixed up. Turned out
the cat was allergic to everything. Annie spent thousands of pounds on that
cat, fed it the best of everything and loved it to bits... but it was always
skinny, usually scabby and bald and asfar as I know is still going strong
ten years later.
James has just lost his pet. Please don't be too quick to judge until you
know all the facts. We are all here because we love our animals and hate to
think of cruelty or neglect, but it might not be the case.
simpson
news:DBAF94A5AFBFD445.5D1AA535...@lp.airnews.net...
> Seems to me your cat's death would have been avoidable had you used a flea
collar.
>
That's sensitive.
Sooz
simpson
> "Shirley" <s.hol...@ntlworld.com> wrote
> "Blame your vet for what is an easily preventable cause of death among
cats
> and kittens !!! Are you for real ??"
>
> 'Seems to me your cat's death would have been avoidable had you used a
flea
> collar."
>
> "Stacia" <sta...@world.std.com> wrote
> "OK, I'm willing to let the maggots slide as they may have arrived there
> overnight, and the injury on his tail may have appeared to be something
> else. But not eating for 2-3 days can be so harmful, possibly fatal, to a
> cat! Also not drinking, that could lead to renal failure. And how could
> the cat have gotten fleas so badly he was anemic, could you have put a
> collar on him or used some Hartz spray if nothing else? A flea bath?"
>
> sueo...@charter.net wrote
> "We DO carry that responsibility, and I think it is important that you
> realize this. What strikes me most is that you mention a previous cat
that
> pattern that does not neccessarily reflect on your love for your animals
as
> much as your willingness or ability to properly care for them."
>
> Rechelle.Sin...@verizon.net wrote
> "Even if Walter had allergies, when you noticed a problem you should have
> taken him in immediately. You also should have controlled the flea
problem
> by using flea medication once a month ... there is a lot more you could
have
> done to save Walter's life."
>
> "This whole thread has struck me as an odd way of people deflecting
> responsibility. If I don't feed my cats for two weeks and don't take them
> in for
> treatment until the last minute, I don't get to blame my vet for not being
> able to save them."
>
> Shirley, Stacia, Rechelle, sue osborn, Tara, Clay Pots, you are the most
> HAVE been blaming myself, and I said as much, so thanks for rubbing it in!
> I am in the deepest grief, and all you do is BLAME me. You say I "should
> have taken him in immediately", tell me I "should" have used a flea collar
> (which don't work!), state *incorrectly* "not eating for 2-3 days can
be...
> fatal" (not drinking water for several days, more than 2-3, can be fatal.
> pattern" of unwillingness "to properly care" for my cat. According to Dr.
> Stephen Susaneck, an expert vet oncologist (who has about $4000 of my
money
> for caring for my cat who had FeLV), it takes more than 2-3 days for a cat
> to become dangerously dehydrated, because for some reason they are able to
> store water better than other animals. Walter last drank water, to my
> knowledge, about 36 hours before his death. He liked drinking from the
> bathtub faucet, so I left it dripping for several days before he died so
he
> would be more likely to drink! When he didn't drink the day before his
> death, I realized he would have to go to the vet.
>
> The fact is, my cat's condition came up suddenly over 2 or 3 days. The
> weather has *suddenly* turned very hot and very humid, and so fleas have
> increased dramatically, but I could not see them on Walter due to his long
> hair, and never saw him scratching. IOW, I DID NOT KNOW he had a bad flea
> problem. I explained that every summer it has been a pattern for Walter to
> lose some weight and eat less, and to get a rash due to allergies that
oozed
> just like the one on his tail. It looked *exactly* like his usual
allergies.
> How could I know it was different? I couldn't.
>
> of taking him to the vet, because he was always *very* stressed by vet
> visits, and it hurt me terribly to put him through any stress. The vet
told
> me he died due to being "stressed" by the procedure, even though he was
> partly sedated, which gives an idea of how stressful vet visits were for
> unforgivable, inexcusable. and unconscienable, and I can only assume you
are
> vets or work for vets, or for some other reason sympathize with vets, and
> therefore are not being objective in your callous blaming.
>
> Sue Osborn accuses me of lacking the "willingness or ability to properly
> care for" my cat, based on the fact that I had a cat, "Blackjack", who
died
> of FeLV 12 years ago. Blackjack got FeLV 15 years ago, before the vaccine
> was in widespread use, or I *would* have had him vaccinated. Did you also
> know, Sue, that the FeLV vaccine is nowhere near 100% effective? As far
as
> my "willingness" to care for my pets, I spent more time and energy caring
> for Blackjack than most people would ever dream. I force fed him 3 times a
> day for 3 months with a syringe filled with egg yolk babyfood, water, and
> vitamins, spent about $4000 on chemotherapy, gave him eyedrops 3 times a
day
> for glaucoma, nose drops twice a day for chronic nasal drainage, and
> showered him with affection and love every day. The result was he gained 5
> pounds and was healthy as a horse until he died at age 16, of old age.
How
> dare you accuse me of not being willing to do whatever it takes to care
for
> my cat? I doubt seriously that Sue would spend anywhere near the amount of
> time, energy, and money on her pet that I spent on my Blackjack. If Walter
> had gotten FeLV, I would have cared for him the same as I did for
Blackjack,
> even if it cost $4000 again. Unfortunately, I missed the signs, and he
went
> too quickly for me to intervene.
>
> I doubt seriously that any of these callous, nasty posters would ever care
> for their pet the way I did for Blackjack. The fact is, with Walter, I
was
> trying to strike a balance between being overly cautious and causing him
> painful stress by a possibly unnecessary and, for him, extremely stressful
> vet visit, and waiting to take him to the vet until I was sure it was
> something more than his usual allergies. In hindsight, I made the wrong
> choice, and I have to live with that mistake, which hurts more than I can
> say. Telling me I "should" have done this and that and blaming me, when I
> obviously loved Walter more than life itself and made a HUMAN mistake, is,
> again, callous and cruel. I obviously made another mistake about Walter,
> attempting to seek support on usenet. My mistake for thinking that cat
> lovers would be sensitive and caring (most are, but there's always
> exceptions, obviously).
>
> like Mary and Candace, who told me, "You can't beat yourself up about it",
> "I'm sorry your dear kitty passed away. Sounds like he was a great cat",
> "I'm sure Walter knew he was loved". It's too bad there are a few callous
> people who lack compassion and like to blame others, making all kinds of
> unwarranted conclusions without even getting the full story. I loved
Walter
> and Blackjack with all my heart, and was always willing to do whatever it
> took to keep them healthy, even if it cost thousands of dollars and many
> hours of my time on a daily basis in personally caring for them to help
them
> recover (as it was with Blackjack).
>
> There is one fact that remains that Shirley and the other callous people
> have denied, which is why I suspect they are vets or work for vets. Mary
> pointed this out succinctly, and this cannot be refuted: "He needed
> subcutaneous fluids and a blood transfusion. My cat was a little anemic
and
> dehydrated and my vet did this for him instantly. The blood loss and
> feel responsible that I missed the signs, maybe because I was in denial
> because in the past I had a cat that died who I loved dearly. But to
accuse
> me of not properly caring for my cat is not only callous, it's untrue,
which
> Walter, wherever he is, knows. Everyday, I showed that cat how much I
loved
> him, and, had I knew the seriousness of his condition, I would have taken
> him to a vet sooner.
> James> news:b9bleu$1dr$2...@pcls4.std.com...
> > "James Simpson" <jsimp...@JoiMail.com> writes:
> >
> > > My cat, "Walter", an 11-year-old persian, died yesterday, and I
think
> it
> > >was completely avoidable. The vet said he had severe "flea anemia". I
had
> > >brought him to the vet after he had been sluggish, lost weight, and
quit
> > >eating for about 2 or 3 days. I noticed the night before that his tail
> was
> > >oozing blood, but thought it was his usual allergy (he had allergies
that
> > >caused him to develop scabs that oozed on his back and tail for years
in
> the
> > >summer). When I got him to the vet, I showed him the tail that had been
> > >oozing, and it suddenly had maggots on it. The maggots were not on the
> tail
> > >the night before
> >
there
> > overnight, and the injury on his tail may have appeared to be something
> > else. But not eating for 2-3 days can be so harmful, possibly fatal, to
a
> > cat! Also not drinking, that could lead to renal failure. And how
could
> > the cat have gotten fleas so badly he was anemic, could you have put a
> > collar on him or used some Hartz spray if nothing else? A flea bath?
> >
> > > How could a vet fail to do these very simple procedures that were
> > >obviously *necessary*
> >
> > have saved the cat. Maybe we're not hearing everything or maybe the
flea
> > infestation was some freakish overnight thing, so I'm not trying to jump
> > to conclusions.
> > I'm very sorry for your loss. I hope this may help prevent other pets
> > from going through the same thing.
> >
> > >had had a transfusion, as well as fluids for the dehydration.
> >
> > suggested an eyedropper of water in the corner of his mouth. It really
> > does work well, it makes the kitty drink even if he doesn't want to.
> >
> > Stacia * sta...@world.std.com * http://world.std.com/~stacia/
> > "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death
> > your right to say it." - Evelyn Beatrice Hall
>
>
Not all of us were blaming you James. I read from your post that you were a
caring owner. I don't blame you for biting back. Those posts must have hurt
terribly. I felt it just reading them. I'm sure the stress of being bathed
did kill Walter, cats hate that more than anything, coupled with being at
the vets which he hated anyway, personally I think he should have been
rehydrated and given twenty-four hours in a warm catbox to build up first.
That was horrible and I'm sorry you had that on top of your grief. If you
know that you did what you could for Walter then please don't blame
yourself.
Sooz.
Abby Normal
It's also true. Grow up.
simpson
words flea aneamia coupled with open sores and maggots and instantly made
you out to be the owner from hell. If my cat looked a little bit down I
wouldn't immediately rush him to the vets, I'd watch him to see how he was
for awhile and then take him when I felt it was nesseccary. I think this is
what you did as soon as you saw the maggotts, and that he still wasn't
drinking the following morning. You were judged and jumped all over, and I
don't think the posts were nice at all. You have every right to be angry and
upset. One day they will be writing to say that their pet just died. They
will also have done everything they could for him, and I hope they are
treated with more compassion than you were.
Not one of them bothered to ask first if your cat was being treated for his
flea problems.
Your love for Walter comes across loud and clear and I hope your next cat is
as loving and affectionate towards you as he was. I'd be devastated if
anything happened to Max or my dog Kali, but I'd feel twice as bad, if a
load of people told me it was my fault without knowing how I care for them.
I really think several people in this group owe James a decent appology.
And this is from an outsider reading from both sides.
Sooz
simpson
Then shame on you for being so judgemental.
Sooz
simpson
James I think you're over-reacting to what was said now. Let's get this into
perspective here. You have every right to be angry and emotional and I
don't blame you for wanting to kick out.
But I don't think anybody is hate filled, or wanted to specifically hurt
you. what they were is insensitive and cruel. But I don't think there is
any personal compaign to get at you. What happened was they had an
oppertunity to feel superior and used it to put you down and elevate their
own status as the best and most loving, knowlegeable cat owners around.
They had you down as a neglectful owner and jumped without getting the
correct information. See it from their point of view just a little. If you
had been a man who would let his cat starve and grow magots wouldn't they be
right to jump?
You are not. That's clear. A mistake was made. The fact that they still
justyfy thier posts shows that 'sorry' doesn't come easily to them. That's
their problem not yours.
And like you say some good has come of this and in a way they have done you
a favour. I agree with what you said. When you first posted you were feeling
guilty and doubting yourself. Now you know that your cat was happy and well
cared for, that he loved you with all his heart and that you loved him and
were a good owner.
Sooz.
simpson
--
> ----------------
> The above is my original reply, based on that you chose to attack me, call
> me names, send me an abusive e-mail. I can't be bothered to cut and paste
> your vitriolic reply here (it's over in RPCHB) but I then gave you a dose
of
> your own medicine, it seems you can dish it out but not take it in return.
> In all of this it's your cat I feel sorry for.
>
> I suspect you are a troll trying to stir up trouble.
> --
> Shirley
Sooz
ParrotRob
<snip a bunch of crap>
> judgmental. I have had it with judgmental jerks, who are no better than
> others, but think they have the right to judge others. You have no right
to
> judge.
THIS FROM THE ASSHOLE THAT BLAMED THE VET FOR KILLING HIS CAT? You tell
ME - who's the judgemental asshole here? Give it a rest, James. Everyone
here is very sorry to hear about Walter, but we're also all sick to death of
you blaming everyone in the fucking world wxcept the one person who is TRULY
responsible: James.
Tara
Pot kettle black here dear.
What is it that rises you above the masses when most of your posts today
have been all about how you are too good to be so low?
Tara
Dee
> > Ill cats are almost always dehydrated. you can also give a little
> > unflavored pedialyte in a dropped to rehydrate and increase electrolytes.
> >
> > Dee
> >
>
> I think you're all being a bit quick to fire bullets here. It's easy to be
> critical and judgemental when your kitty is sitting on the rug hale and
> hearty and purring like a vibrator. If James 'let' his cat get like that,
> never treated, couldn't care less then fine fire away.
Excuse me simpson, I was simply replying to the above suggestion with a
suggestion of my own. If you read the two sentences again you'll probably
not find anything judgemental, or any bullets firing. Some of us do try
to be helpful, and I resent, TOTALLY resent being singled out by you. By
the way, my "kitty" is laying on the floor possibly dying rather than
sitting on the rug hale and hearty.
Dee
dgk
<jsimp...@JoiMail.com> wrote:
> My cat, "Walter", an 11-year-old persian, died yesterday, and I think it
>was completely avoidable. The vet said he had severe "flea anemia". I had
>brought him to the vet after he had been sluggish, lost weight, and quit
Sorry about Walter and your rough treatment here. Everyone here loves
cats (obviously) and show their love in different ways. My first
reaction to your letter was, the idiot should have taken the cat to
the vet sooner, but really, I know what it's like.
One of my cats was acting somewhat strange one night and seemed to
have a cold. I wondered whether I should take him to the emergency vet
but it was far away and would have cost a lot of money. Also, the cat
didn't seem really sick, just like he had a cold. A bit lethargic and
sneezing.
I took him in the next morning and was told that he would be all right
and to expect to pick him up in the evening. An hour later they called
and said that he had died. He apparently had diabetes and died of a
heart related problem. I didn't know he even had it. I was angry at
myself for not taking him in immediately and angry at the vet for
letting him die there.
A few months ago another cat seemed to have a cold. I wanted the vet
to see him immediately even though they told me that it didn't seem
serious and that there was no time for an appointment. I thought about
the emergency vet but I waited overnight. The cat had a cold.
The problem here is that neither us nor the vets can talk to the cats.
Well, we can, but they don't answer very clearly. So we have to guess
about bringing them in and the vet has to try to figure out where it
hurts. And, of course, most cats HATE going to the vet and that is in
our thoughts also so we shy away from it unless we have to take them
in.
Given it to do over again you would have brought him in faster and the
vet would have done things differently. Maybe. And when the cats can
talk to us then we'll have a better idea how serious something is.
James Simpson
I believe "simpson" (the other one) was responding to Stacia, and not you,
referring to Stacia's overall accusation to me, "I feel like you failed to
do simple procedures that could have saved the cat" (referring to
dehydration and treating it with pedialyte), an extremely unfair and cruel
thing to say. I'm sure if your cat died and someone accused of the same
thing, your grief would be compounded, just as mine has been by the callous
replies I've received from people like Stacia and Shirley. My wish is that
all people are treated with respect and compassion, and maybe I also went
too far in fighting back against these unfair, judgmental responses, but
anger is a normal part of grief and difficult to control.
BTW, I appreciate your pointing out that feline leukemia "can be caught
at any stage of life" and that the vaccination is not 100% effective. Sue
osborn had tried to say there was a "pattern" of my supposedly neglecting my
pets, since I had a cat who had FeLV and lymphosarcoma 15 years ago (before
the vaccine was even widely available). I nursed that cat back to health and
had 3 wonderful years with "Blackjack", when his prognosis had been death
within a few days at the time he was diagnosed. I know how much energy it
takes to care for a seriously ill cat, and I'm very sorry your kitty is
sick. I hope she recovers soon and that you have many more years to share
with her.
James
James Simpson
news:3IOua.15488$Jf.74...@news1.news.adelphia.net...
It's time for YOU to give it a rest, and join Shirley and the other callous
jerks, who enjoy kicking people when they're down. I did the best I could
for my cat at the time. As I explained, I waited to bring him to the vet
because vet visits were very stressful for him. The only reason I waited to
take him to the vet was out of concern for his well-being and not wanting
put him through any unnecessary stress or pain. If that's not good enough
for you, that's your problem. Your lack of basic human decency and
compassion, evident in your attacking and blaming me when I'm grieving the
lost my best friend who just died Monday, is also YOUR problem. The other
"simpson" here put it better than I:
ParrotRob
> "ParrotRob" <parr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:3IOua.15488$Jf.74...@news1.news.adelphia.net...
> > "James Simpson" <jsimp...@JoiMail.com> wrote in message
> > news:b9fiq7$r39$1...@news.chatlink.com...
> > <snip a bunch of crap>
> > > judgmental. I have had it with judgmental jerks, who are no better
than
> > > others, but think they have the right to judge others. You have no
right
> > to
> > > judge.
> >
> > THIS FROM THE ASSHOLE THAT BLAMED THE VET FOR KILLING HIS CAT? You tell
> > ME - who's the judgemental asshole here? Give it a rest, James.
Everyone
> > here is very sorry to hear about Walter, but we're also all sick to
death
> of
> > you blaming everyone in the fucking world wxcept the one person who is
> TRULY
> > responsible: James.
>
> It's time for YOU to give it a rest,
Me? This was my first post on the issue. You've been beating the dead
horse for the last few days blaming everyone and their brother for your lack
of basic common sense.
> and join Shirley and the other callous
> jerks, who enjoy kicking people when they're down.
I don't ENJOY kicking anyone, but I'm sick to death of you beating on these
good people because of your stupid mistake.
> I did the best I could
> for my cat at the time. As I explained, I waited to bring him to the vet
> because vet visits were very stressful for him. The only reason I waited
to
> take him to the vet was out of concern for his well-being and not wanting
> put him through any unnecessary stress or pain. If that's not good enough
> for you, that's your problem. Your lack of basic human decency and
> compassion, evident in your attacking and blaming me when I'm grieving the
> lost my best friend who just died Monday, is also YOUR problem. The other
> "simpson" here put it better than I:
Look, my issue isn't with flea anemia, or maggots on the tail or whatever
other fucking problem you or your dear cat had. All we've heard from you
the past three days on this board is how everyone ELSE is to blame -
starting with your vet, then moving on to the people who did little more
than tell you the vet is not to blame. Maybe when you stop blaming everyone
else for what is no one's fault but your own, you will get a little sympathy
around here. Perhaps if you came in here looking for SUPPORT instead of
venting over who's to blame, you would have GOTTEN support. But what did
you do? You came in here bitching about how your VET killed Walter because
he wouldn't give him fluids or a blood transfusion in a timely fashion.
>
> "James I would stop defending yourself now, you have no need to. They saw
> the words flea aneamia coupled with open sores and maggots and instantly
> made you out to be the owner from hell.
That is full of shit. The reason people made James out to be the owner from
hell is because he came in here with a flamethrower aimed at everyone else
but himself.
> If my cat looked a little bit down I
> wouldn't immediately rush him to the vets, I'd watch him to see how he was
> for awhile and then take him when I felt it was nesseccary. I think this
is
> what you did as soon as you saw the maggotts, and that he still wasn't
> drinking the following morning. You were judged and jumped all over,
Because of the accusatory nature of your post.
> and I
> don't think the posts were nice at all. You have every right to be angry
and
> upset. One day they will be writing to say that their pet just died.
Perhaps, but will they be pointing the finger at people to figure out who
was responsible? My Buster died in January from a bad fall so I know what
you're going through - but to hurl accusations and blame in every direction
but your own will earn you the sort of responses you got.
> They
> will also have done everything they could for him, and I hope they are
> treated with more compassion than you were.
>
> Not one of them bothered to ask first if your cat was being treated for
his
> flea problems.
Again, that wasn't the issue. The issue was blaming the vet.
>
> Your love for Walter comes across loud and clear and I hope your next cat
is
> as loving and affectionate towards you as he was. I'd be devastated if
> anything happened to Max or my dog Kali, but I'd feel twice as bad, if a
> load of people told me it was my fault without knowing how I care for
them.
>
> I really think several people in this group owe James a decent appology.
I think James owes his VET a decent apology.
James Simpson
> > "Shirley" <s.hol...@ntlworld.com> wrote
> > "Blame your vet for what is an easily preventable cause of death among
> cats
> > and kittens !!! Are you for real ??"
> >
> > 'Seems to me your cat's death would have been avoidable had you used a
> flea
> > collar."
> >
> > callous, unfeeling, unfair people I've had the misfortune to encounter.
> > HAVE been blaming myself, and I said as much, so thanks for rubbing it
in!
> > I am in the deepest grief, and all you do is BLAME me. You say I "should
> > have taken him in immediately", tell me I "should" have used a flea
collar
> > (which don't work!), state *incorrectly* "not eating for 2-3 days can
> > be... fatal" (not drinking water for several days, more than 2-3, can be
fatal.
> > But not eating for that short time is NOT fatal), and accuse me of "a
> > pattern" of unwillingness "to properly care" for my cat. According to
Dr.
> > Stephen Susaneck, an expert vet oncologist (who has about $4000 of my
> > money for caring for my cat who had FeLV), it takes more than 2-3 days
for a
> > cat to become dangerously dehydrated, because for some reason they are
able to
> > store water better than other animals. Walter last drank water, to my
> > knowledge, about 36 hours before his death. He liked drinking from the
> > bathtub faucet, so I left it dripping for several days before he died so
> > he would be more likely to drink! When he didn't drink the day before
his
> > death, I realized he would have to go to the vet.
> >
> > weather has *suddenly* turned very hot and very humid, and so fleas have
> > increased dramatically, but I could not see them on Walter due to his
long
> > hair, and never saw him scratching. IOW, I DID NOT KNOW he had a bad
flea
> > problem. I explained that every summer it has been a pattern for Walter
to
> > lose some weight and eat less, and to get a rash due to allergies that
> oozed
> > just like the one on his tail. It looked *exactly* like his usual
> allergies.
> > How could I know it was different? I couldn't.
> >
stress
> > of taking him to the vet, because he was always *very* stressed by vet
> > visits, and it hurt me terribly to put him through any stress. The vet
> told
> > me he died due to being "stressed" by the procedure, even though he was
> > partly sedated, which gives an idea of how stressful vet visits were for
> for
> > my cat? I doubt seriously that Sue would spend anywhere near the amount
of
> > time, energy, and money on her pet that I spent on my Blackjack. If
Walter
> > had gotten FeLV, I would have cared for him the same as I did for
> Blackjack,
> > even if it cost $4000 again. Unfortunately, I missed the signs, and he
> went
> > too quickly for me to intervene.
> >
> > I doubt seriously that any of these callous, nasty posters would ever
care
> > for their pet the way I did for Blackjack. The fact is, with Walter, I
> was
> > trying to strike a balance between being overly cautious and causing him
> > painful stress by a possibly unnecessary and, for him, extremely
stressful
> > vet visit, and waiting to take him to the vet until I was sure it was
> > something more than his usual allergies. In hindsight, I made the wrong
> > choice, and I have to live with that mistake, which hurts more than I
can
> > say. Telling me I "should" have done this and that and blaming me, when
I
> > obviously loved Walter more than life itself and made a HUMAN mistake,
is,
Walter,
> > attempting to seek support on usenet. My mistake for thinking that cat
> > lovers would be sensitive and caring (most are, but there's always
> > exceptions, obviously).
> >
> think it
> > > >was completely avoidable. The vet said he had severe "flea anemia". I
> had
> > > >brought him to the vet after he had been sluggish, lost weight, and
> quit
could
Thanks so much for the support. And I do realize now that I let my grief get
the best of me and allowed the callous posters here to upset me
unnecessarily. I should have tried harder to ignore them, but I was
completely shocked that I got so many judgmental accusations in response to
my initial post, and it was hard to take when already in such deep grief. As
I said, ironically, these callous posters helped me to realize that I was
not "at fault", that I did do the best I could for Walter, given what I knew
at the time, and held his best interests and health in mind. I can accept
that I made mistakes now, because I am not God, I am only human and could
not predict what was to happen. Thanks again for being a voice of reason
and compassion in difficult times.
James
James Simpson
news:3eba25e8$0$1032$5402...@news.sunrise.ch...
> | > You have to accept all that was going on and maybe went wrong. A blood
> | > transfusion might have been too much stress too.
> | > Think through all the ifs and buts like you do now, it's the way to
come
> | to
> | > terms with the shock over the loss of Walter.
> | > And eventually the thankfulness that you could own such an
extraordinary
> | cat
> | > will remain.
> | >
> | > Carola
> |
> | Thanks, it's been very hard, harder than the last cat I lost, because he
> was
> | so communicative, always calling out to me and jumping up in my arms
like
> a
> | child. But I realized I would have taken him to the vet sooner if I had
> | known his condition. I didn't know his condition was so bad, so I know I
> | can't blame myself, but it's hard not to second-guess. I think I was in
> some
> | denial too, that I sort of thought if I didn't take him to the vet he
> | wouldn't be sick, that it was just the allergies as usual. I know now
that
> | no one could have known, including me. But it still hurts that I
couldn't
> | save him. It'll take a long time to work through this, because Walter
was
> so
> | human-like, the way he'd jump in my arms and hug me like a human with
his
> | arms around my neck and head burrowed in my face, and call out to me
from
> | another room when he couldn't even see me. That's the hard stuff to
> remember
> | and not hurt. Yes, this'll take a while.
> | James
>
> Whenever I loose a pet, even if it is just because of old age, then I'm
> badly upset.
> But what *really* kills me is when they have to suffer before they can
pass
> away.
> And thankfully with Walter this wasn't the case, good!
I know exactly what you mean. I certainly hope he had no pain, and hopefully
the sedation blocked any pain. In fact, that was one thing I thought about
often since the death of my previous cat from FeLV. It always hurt me to
think of Walter being in any pain whatsoever, which is why I delayed in
taking him to the vet, since he got so scared and stressed when seeing the
vet. I remember praying that if Walter ever got ill, he would not have pain,
because that would hurt me more than anything, to see him in pain, he didn't
deserve any pain, being the angel he was and now truly is. It's good to see
there are caring people here like you. Thanks so much for the support and
encouragement.
James
> Carola
>
> (to reply remove c and invalid)
James Simpson
news:3EBB9F02...@hotmail.com...
No it is not. Flea collars are worthless. You're just another judgmental
"cat lover" who wants to feel superior to other owners. I only hope when
your cat dies you are excoriated for not doing this or that - "you should
have done this ...". None of us are perfect, and none of us has any right to
judge, especially across a computer monitor, the quality of care an owner
has given their cat. So, You grow up.
Haruspex
wrote:
ITA. I think Clay Pots may be another incarnation of Brenchley, and
why s/he/it wouldn't recommend BioSpot or Advantage instead of a flea
collar is yet another indication of ignorance. Into the killfile you
go!
simpson
Dee I'm so sorry, at the time yours was the last post. I didn't single you
out and wasn't directing that at you. Your post was pleasant and helpful.
Sorry I should have put it on the first post of James' not the bottom one of
yours. I hope your cat recovers and if not I hope that he feels no pain and
that you recover.
Sooz
Dee
> I know how much energy it
> takes to care for a seriously ill cat, and I'm very sorry your kitty is
> sick. I hope she recovers soon and that you have many more years to share
> with her.
> James
>
Thank you, and thanks to all of you here who've been so supportive. h0p
is a guy though, and as sick as he is I think he'd still bite ya for
calling him "her"!
Dee
Dee
On Sat, 10 May 2003, simpson wrote:
> Dee I'm so sorry, at the time yours was the last post. I didn't single you
> out and wasn't directing that at you. Your post was pleasant and helpful.
> Sorry I should have put it on the first post of James' not the bottom one of
> yours. I hope your cat recovers and if not I hope that he feels no pain and
> that you recover.
> Sooz
Thank you Sooz. Sorry to be so jumpy, I've been under some tension. It's
so hard not knowing what to do for him.
Dee
Dee
is near to being impossible, so I thought I'd post this now and hopefully
have some replies that will give me a place to start when I get to work
tomorrow.
I know a teenager in Lawton, Kansas via the internet who has four cats,
all four years old and younger. The oldest just had her third litter of
five, only one of the previous two litters survived. The kid's mother
doesn't know she has the cats, and she keeps them in her dad's workshop.
None of these cats has ever seen a vet, had a shot, been neutered or
wormed. The girl says they can't afford it, but I suspect that her father
just isn't someone who knows or cares much about animals.
I've managed to convince her that she absolutely has to find good homes
for these cats, and that if she wants to keep one I'll pay to have it
spayed/neutered. I've asked her to mail me with specifics on the
individual cats.
So...is anyone in the Lawton Kansas area interested in taking in a cat
that really needs a home? Anyone know of anyone who might be? Any decent
n-kill shelters in the area that might take them in? you see what I mean,
I'm just looking for a direction to start in. Thanks again for all of
your help.
Dee
simpson
I can imagine and feel for you.
Sooz.
k
And people don't have to be "callous" because they
aren't only catering to that side of the issue.
Many, rightfully, focus on the animal's welfare.
That cat went through a lot of pain and misery
because the person, you, didn't take care of it
properly.
Your refusal to take any personal responsibility,
and the extreme way you lash out is a definite problem
-- for any future animal in your life.
No, you do not have any excuse for not educating yourself
long ago about something so basic as "fleas".
Yes, you do have responsibility in the affair, though
from your behavior, it's unlikely you'll ever accept that.
Still doesn't change the truth.
Neither fleas, nor open cuts, much less "maggots" --
all of which you ignored, are "normal". Your attempts
at "justification" are silly.
"James Simpson" <jsimp...@JoiMail.com> wrote in message > >
> > > Shirley, Stacia, Rechelle, sue osborn, Tara, Clay Pots, you are the most
> > > callous, unfeeling, unfair people I've had the misfortune to encounter.
> >
> > > The fact is, my cat's condition came up suddenly over 2 or 3 days. The
> > > weather has *suddenly* turned very hot and very humid, and so fleas have
> > > increased dramatically, but I could not see them on Walter due to his
> long
> > > hair, and never saw him scratching. IOW, I DID NOT KNOW he had a bad
> flea
> > > problem. I explained that every summer it has been a pattern for Walter
> to
> > > lose some weight and eat less, and to get a rash due to allergies that
> > > oozed just like the one on his tail. It looked *exactly* like his usual
> > > allergies. How could I know it was different? I couldn't.
> >
> > Walter was a long haired cat ? You groomed him at least once a week (more
> > basic care)?
>
> Of course, and the vet had given him prednisone-type depot shots several
> times when the skin allergy got bad, but that's a trade off, since steroids
> depress the immune system and can lead to all sorts of worse problems than a
> rash that really didn't bother Walter much.
>
> > So how could you MISS a flea infestation that would lead to
> > death from aneamia ? Could it just be possible that Walters allergy/rash
> was
> > in fact a flea allergy ? If one of my cats had a re-occuring rash that
> oozed
> > I would take preventative measures not just accept it happens every year.
> > The flea load needed to cause fatal anemia in an otherwise healthy cat is
> > enormous and it wouldn't happen in just a couple of days
>
> I didn't say the rash oozed all the time, but that he had little scabs
> around his neck and on his back and tail. I assumed the skin must have oozed
> at some point to cause the scabs to form, possibly from scratching. His tail
> was oozing a little the night before he died, which is when I patted it dry
> with a kleenex and put hydrogen peroxide on it twice. As far as fleas, I
> combed and brushed his hair thoroughly and only rarely saw 1 or 2 fleas.
> Maybe they hid in the deeper layers of his hair (he was persian) and I
> couldn't see them. So, you gonna blame me now for not trying harder to find
> fleas? How will you try to make me feel bad next? I can't wait!
>
> > > The fact is, I was trying to avoid having to put Walter through the
> stress
> > > of taking him to the vet, because he was always *very* stressed by vet
> > > visits, and it hurt me terribly to put him through any stress. The vet
> > > told me he died due to being "stressed" by the procedure, even though he
> was
> > > partly sedated, which gives an idea of how stressful vet visits were for
> > > him.
> >
> > But you left him to suffer until he was in such a weakened state that the
> > stress killed him !!!
>
> Well, you outdid yourself with that hateful comment, an obvious attempt,
> once again, to blame me and make me feel bad. You're such a "nice" person,
> aren't you? I did NOT leave "him to suffer", you LIAR. I already said I
> tried to avoid putting Walter through the stress of a vet visit, as he was
> always very stressed seeing the vet. Stress is not healthy either, and not
> knowing he was anemic, I watched him closely until I could see that he
> needed to see the vet. I was trying to spare him unnecessary trauma, but I'm
> sure you'll find a way to demonize me for not wanting my cat to have any
> unnecessary trauma or pain.
>
> > > I obviously made another mistake about Walter,
> > > attempting to seek support on usenet. My mistake for thinking that cat
> > > lovers would be sensitive and caring (most are, but there's always
> > > exceptions, obviously).
> >
sue osborn
that a Persian's hair could present a challenge of observation that would
exacerbated a problem. I did not intend to state that you did not love your
cat, in fact I think I stated quite the opposite. I am sorry that you feel
the need to blame someone for your loss, and moreso am sorry for your loss
itself - it has clearly caused your soul to ache.
"simpson" <sooz...@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:b9g4m5$iv4as$1...@ID-184747.news.dfncis.de...
Dee
IBD has been confirmed, and he is going to be retreated for toxoplasmosis.
His biopsies showed cells in his stomach that do not exist in dogs or
cats...except h0p apparently. They seem to think that this is
interesting, but not hurting him. I don't think I'm too satisfied with
that answer as something is obviously hurting him. He came to me for head
butts and scratches last night though, so he must feel a little better :)
Dee
Tara
Poor little guy. I hope you are able to solve this mystery. And I really
really hope he feels better soon.
Tara
Dee
Thanks Tara, the vet says he seems much better to her, but when he's home
he just kind of lasy in one place and stares into space. I have to think
something more is going on...now these unexplained cells! I really
have no idea where to go with that, as the tests were sent to PA.
University and they're supposed to be very good. You've all been great
through this though, and I really appreciate it.
Dee
mlbriggs
you read it and hope you understand it better than I did. Cats eat bugs
-one source.
Agua Girl
When my Golden Retriever was just one year old, she was diagnosed
with some weird unexplainable muscle disease that was causing her muscles
to shrink. We first noticed a loss of appetite..and then..when we threw a
toy
for her to catch it would just hit her in the head. We realized she wasn't
opening her mouth very wide. I guess we are lucky it started in the jaw
and head (she didn't end up with the normal round head that retrievers have)
or it may have been weeks before we noticed it instead of days.
They never did figure it out, and they did try. We were understandably
freaked. This was the first animal I ever bought from a breeder.
(my ex wanted a pure bred) Sweet as pie and only 1 year old, and we
thought we would lose her. They treated the symptoms. She was on
Cortisone for almost a year and then again as she got older. Naturally
that led to her being a little overweight for her entire life but she did
live
a long and very happy life. I had to say good-bye to her last year...she
was almost 15yrs old. Long life for a 90lb dog. Thing is...they don't
have to KNOW what is wrong in order to treat an animal. Certainly
it helps and makes treatment easier but as long as they can make h0p
feel good, it won't matter if they can explain the cells. (maybe he is alien
life <g>) Good luck and I hope h0p (say that 10X fast) feels good soon.
AG
Karen
Me too. Many purrs.
Karen
>
Gabor
> H0ppy went to see the oncologist on Monday, and stayed overnight on
> fluids. On Tuesday an endoscopy with biopsies and a liver aspiration were
> performed. She said that while she does see some inflamation in the
> intestines, it doesn't look bad enough to be the lymphosarcoma that was
> suspected (of course we have to wait for the results of the biopsies to be
> sure about the cancer). The liver looked so normal that she didn't even
> bother to send the slides in, and he's definitely leukemia negative.
> While all these things are great news, he's still a pretty sick little guy
> and we don't know what's wrong with him. He was given an injection of
> steroids to lessen inflamation and help increase his appetite.
>
> He came home last night pretty wobbly from the anesthetic, but promptly
> went to the litter box and used it for both functions, then went in search
> of food. He ate plenty (which was a suprise because endoscopies with
> biopsies don't really feel so great and he was having to be force fed
> before hand), and has eaten three bowls of food today.
>
> If anyone can suggest anything that could be wrong from experiences
> they've had, or ways to keep him in good shape until we do find out what's
> wrong, it'd be greatly appreciated. I really appreciate all the support
> I've gotten from all of you. Thanks.
>
> Dee
>
> p.s. Soon I'll be writing to ask about George, who has become so freaked
> out by all of this that all he'll do is hide and poop on the floor :/
Dee,
I wish you the best!
My 3 weeks old kitten just died in my hand an hour ago.
Never give up !
Cheryl
>
> Dee,
>
> I wish you the best!
> My 3 weeks old kitten just died in my hand an hour ago.
> Never give up !
I'm so sorry. Kitten crash really fast. :(
--
Cheryl
"If you work hard enough, if you want it bad enough, dreams do come
true. So follow your dreams man, follow your dreams. Because we all
die young." -Rock Star
Eric's tribute: http://www.petitmorte.net/envision
Tara
> I wish you the best!
> My 3 weeks old kitten just died in my hand an hour ago.
> Never give up !
Ouch! I'm so sorry. How heartbreaking.
Tara
Karen Chuplis
fg...@aol.com wrote on 5/22/03 8:36 PM:
I'm so sorry to hear that :(
Karen
Agua Girl
"Gabor" <fg...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:2019385e.03052...@posting.google.com...
> My 3 weeks old kitten just died in my hand an hour ago.
> Never give up !
Ohh man.. I am so sorry. My heart goes out to you.
I am fostering kitties now..first time ever dealing with
a cat under 6 months. I can't imagine losing any of them.
sorry
AG
Dee
> > I wish you the best!
> > My 3 weeks old kitten just died in my hand an hour ago.
> > Never give up !
I'm so sorry! It's so difficult watching animals suffer when they can't
tell you what's wrong. Best wishes.
Dee
Stacy
| Gabor wrote:
||
|| Dee,
||
|| I wish you the best!
|| My 3 weeks old kitten just died in my hand an hour ago.
|| Never give up !
|
| I'm so sorry. Kitten crash really fast. :(
They sure do... I lost a week old about a month ago. I had taken him to the
ER and I was taught to tube feed him ... he was givin some fluids and
glucose.. he seemed pretty strong.. only lasted 12 hours and he was gone.
Ive seen it happen too often but I would do it again and again if I had to.
nancyrodr...@gmail.com
ngu
only the cherished memory of the great time you have spent with your
cats. Passage of time is the greatest healer.
On 7/6/2018 11:31 PM, nancyrodr...@gmail.com wrote:
> I just lost two 12 year old cats 9 days apart. Im still grieving and mad at myself for not getting them regular checkups. One had pylometra and tge other had anemia. Im just devistated. We didnt have tge money for blood transfusion on the one with anemia.
>
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