looking forward...
Erin
<g>), I wonder how Palin's standing will be in the party? It will be
interesting to see how things go here when she returns, defeated. Any
of the patrons have experience with a governor returning to complete a
term after losing a national election?
Tom the Alien Cat
Not one that was under corruption/ethics charges back at home. The
day after the election, that may become her primary time consumer. Or
it may not.
There was Mike Dukakis. A very decent man; he lost by being too noble
to respond to negative campaigning. The very next morning, Wednesday,
he was back in his office, doing the routine governor stuff he had
done for years: making sure there was some money to do next year's
highway litter cleanup, that sort of thing. And he never ran for
anything ever again.
McCain's concession speech was gracious enough, in that he said enough
good things about Gov. Palin that she might not be blamed for the
loss.
Harry Mary Andruschak
I'll go you one better. Richard Nixon.
Joyce of Pendle
> Erin wrote:
> > Assuming that McCain/Palin lose this election (it's not
> > official, yet <g>), I wonder how Palin's standing will be in
> > the party? It will be interesting to see how things go here
> > when she returns, defeated. Any of the patrons have experience
> > with a governor returning to complete a term after losing a
> > national election?
[Tom: Dukakis]
> I'll go you one better. Richard Nixon.
But he was governor of California *after* he lost the election
to JFK. Right? What did he do before he was Eisenhower's Veep?
I was young and living in Texas then. It's like a whole other
country.
Still, I'd rather buy a used car from Palin than from Nixon. And
at least for a while now, here in the UK, Palin will mean Michael
Palin (of Monty Python fame) again.
--
Joyce of Pendle.
--
"The spear in the Other's heart is in your own: you are he." -- Surak
http://www.flickr.com/photos/araqnid/
pendle atte boulsworth dotco_dotuk
Tom the Alien Cat
> Harry Mary Andruschak wrote:
> > Erin wrote:
> > > Assuming that McCain/Palin lose this election (it's not
> > > official, yet <g>), I wonder how Palin's standing will be in
> > > the party? It will be interesting to see how things go here
> > > when she returns, defeated. Any of the patrons have experience
> > > with a governor returning to complete a term after losing a
> > > national election?
>
> [Tom: Dukakis]
>
> > I'll go you one better. Richard Nixon.
>
> But he was governor of California *after* he lost the election
> to JFK. Right? What did he do before he was Eisenhower's Veep?
> I was young and living in Texas then. It's like a whole other
> country.
Nixon's path, according to Wikipedia, was "Representative" then
"Senator", then "Vice President". Then he lost the presidency.
Two years later, 1962, he lost the bid for Governor of California.
Six years after that, he became president.
* * * * *
Regarding Palin again, one of my favorite bloggers, electoral-
vote.com, said at 4am:
In Alaska, Ted Stevens was miraculously leading Mark Begich by 4000
votes with 81% reporting. If Stevens is elected to the Senate, he will
probably be expelled in January leading to an election, most likely
between Begich and Sarah Palin. Given the heavy Republican dominance
of Alaska, Palin would probably win that one. With four years in the
Senate, she would make a much more plausible candidate in 2012. If, on
the other hand, Begich wins, then Palin goes back to Alaska to shoot
moose.
[Later this morning, Stevens was still leading by 3,353 votes.]
[On Nixon again, Wikipedia points out: "Nixon is the only person in
American history to appear on the Republican Party's presidential
ticket five times, to secure the Republican nomination for president
three times, and to have been elected twice to both the vice
presidency and the presidency."
[If Palin emulates him, she could be around a long time. It could be
crucial, still, for Bristol to get married. Sigh.]
MajorOz
Actually, leading to Palin being called upon to appoint a
replacement. The smart move would be to appoint herself. which has
been done in other states.
> [On Nixon again, Wikipedia points out: "Nixon is the only person in
> American history to appear on the Republican Party's presidential
> ticket five times, to secure the Republican nomination for president
> three times, and to have been elected twice to both the vice
> presidency and the presidency."
Tragic man. The most savvy foreign policy president we have ever
had. Also probably the most intelligent prez of the 20th century.
Too bad his devils spoke to him in the night. Of course, being hated
by most media didn't help either.
Consensus at the time was that, if he had said: "Hell yes, I
authorized the theft. But I didn't authorize the break-in and I fired
their asses. Now, let's get on with the election", it would have
blown over (except in the NY Times).
I, however, always thought it was as stupid as stealing the plans for
the Edsel. The election was a slam-dunk.
cheers
oz, who respected Nixon for a number of reasons
Erin
> On Nov 5, 9:35 am, Tom the Alien Cat <TomTheAlien...@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
> > Regarding Palin again, one of my favorite bloggers, electoral-
> > vote.com, said at 4am:
>
> > In Alaska, Ted Stevens was miraculously leading Mark Begich by 4000
> > votes with 81% reporting. If Stevens is elected to the Senate, he will
> > probably be expelled in January leading to an election,
>
> Actually, leading to Palin being called upon to appoint a
> replacement. The smart move would be to appoint herself. which has
> been done in other states.
No, not a permanent replacement. She'd make a *temporary* appointment
pending a special election (this was changed here in Alaska back in
2004 when Frank Murkowski resigned his senate seat to run for governor
and appointed his own daughter to fill his seat).
Tom the Alien Cat
And Major Oz...
On Nov 5, 8:30 pm, MajorOz <Majo...@centurytel.net> wrote:
> oz, who respected Nixon for a number of reasons
I also have some appreciation for Nixon, for his intellect and his
struggles to understand how things work.
And, even though he was never "a governor completing a term", I think
he is the answer to Erin's question, as to where Palin could go from
here.
Years back, I latched onto Nixon's book, "In The Wilderness" (an Old
Testiment reference to the time the Jews had to exist in the desert,
without a country). He writes of the times he was out of office, once
because he was losing elections (another after he resigned in
disgrace). I had been laid off from one job, and had not yet been
hired for another -- it was a strong "Wilderness" time of my own.
Palin should read the book -- maybe she has. (One interviewer on MSNBC
said he had asked her if she had studied any of the former Vice
Presidents. She indicated 'yes' and gave a hint that she had been very
interested in the ones that had gone on to be President later.)
"Nixon ``Lessons Learned'' for after Losing":
One would be 'never express your frustration with the media with the
cameras running'. Nixon's line after losing the governor race ('You
won't have Dick Nixon to kick around anymore!') took the better part
of a decade to live down. ... I think Palin is already onto this one.
The current stories about her tantrums and concern for her image are
not reflected in her public statements.
Another rule, or strategy, is 'use this time to go around doing
favors, which you can call in later'. Palin can keep herself busy with
this alone. There are a lot of republicans that may want her to speak
on their behalf. Nixon did do this a lot, 1963-1967, and it paid off
in 1968.
And a third is to 'work on building up your image as a statesperson'.
Nixon wrote books. Perhaps Palin can, too, perhaps a "Conscience of a
Hockey Mom Conservative", to counter her image as a lightweight.
Come January, the Republicans won't have a sitting president, or
speaker, and don't have a charismatic minority leader in either house
(neither Mitch McConnell nor John Boehner). In this situation, McCain
is the official head of the GOP...
. . . Only he probably has a "lame duck" sort of status -- he lost,
and he probably won't run again. That very possibly leaves Sarah Palin
as the actual GOP leader, for the near future, if she does the
legwork.
* * * * *
> I, however, always thought it was as stupid as stealing the plans for
> the Edsel. The election was a slam-dunk.
RN agreed with you -- when he found out about it, he said as much, and
hurled an ashtray across the room.
tom tac
Denny Wheeler
<adopts...@aol.com> wrote:
>On Nov 4, 7:47?pm, Erin <karenan...@hushmail.com> wrote:
>> Assuming that McCain/Palin lose this election (it's not official, yet
>> <g>), I wonder how Palin's standing will be in the party? ?It will be
>> interesting to see how things go here when she returns, defeated. ?Any
>> of the patrons have experience with a governor returning to complete a
>> term after losing a national election?
>
>I'll go you one better. Richard Nixon.
Who we were never going to have to kick around any more.
-denny-
--
"...our dignity, our free institutions and the peace and
welfare of this and coming generations of Americans will be
secure only as we cling to the watchword of true patriotism:
'Our country--when right to be kept right; when wrong to be put
right.'" - Carl Schurz, in 1899
Denny Wheeler
<Maj...@centurytel.net> wrote:
>> [On Nixon again, Wikipedia points out: "Nixon is the only person in
>> American history to appear on the Republican Party's presidential
>> ticket five times, to secure the Republican nomination for president
>> three times, and to have been elected twice to both the vice
>> presidency and the presidency."
>
>Tragic man. The most savvy foreign policy president we have ever
>had. Also probably the most intelligent prez of the 20th century.
>Too bad his devils spoke to him in the night. Of course, being hated
>by most media didn't help either.
>
>Consensus at the time was that, if he had said: "Hell yes, I
>authorized the theft. But I didn't authorize the break-in and I fired
>their asses. Now, let's get on with the election", it would have
>blown over (except in the NY Times).
>
>I, however, always thought it was as stupid as stealing the plans for
>the Edsel. The election was a slam-dunk.
>
>cheers
>
>oz, who respected Nixon for a number of reasons
I did as well--but I also despised his underhandedness. He was, as
you say, the most savvy foreign policy president--he also was a damned
good executive. As to his being hated by the media--I think he very
much brought that on himself by hating them first.
Today's Republican party would consider Dick Nixon far too liberal for
its taste.
(they'd feel the same way about Eisenhower, of course)
MajorOz
Thank you; I did not (obviously) know that was the law.
cheers
oz
saavik
of Senators differs in the various states as well.
Denny Wheeler
<Maj...@centurytel.net> wrote:
(Erin, about AK)
>> No, not a permanent replacement. She'd make a *temporary* appointment
>> pending a special election (this was changed here in Alaska back in
>> 2004 when Frank Murkowski resigned his senate seat to run for governor
>> and appointed his own daughter to fill his seat).
>
>Thank you; I did not (obviously) know that was the law.
WHAT??? Oz, you don't know the laws about such things for each state??
I'm disappointed.
<g>
and <wink>
Erin
I realize my response may have come across as snotty and snarky. I
assure you, I didn't intended it to be such.
I think that most other states DO provide for an appointment rather
than a special election. There's a good chance that, if a special
election were called, the governor could file a lawsuit against it as
being unconstitutional. It hasn't been tested, yet.
MajorOz
> On Nov 9, 11:46 am, MajorOz <Majo...@centurytel.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 6, 2:21 am, Erin <karenan...@hushmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 5, 4:30 pm, MajorOz <Majo...@centurytel.net> wrote:
>
> > > > On Nov 5, 9:35 am, Tom the Alien Cat <TomTheAlien...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > <snip>
>
> > > > > Regarding Palin again, one of my favorite bloggers, electoral-
> > > > > vote.com, said at 4am:
>
> > > > > In Alaska, Ted Stevens was miraculously leading Mark Begich by 4000
> > > > > votes with 81% reporting. If Stevens is elected to the Senate, he will
> > > > > probably be expelled in January leading to an election,
>
> > > > Actually, leading to Palin being called upon to appoint a
> > > > replacement. The smart move would be to appoint herself. which has
> > > > been done in other states.
>
> > > No, not a permanent replacement. She'd make a *temporary* appointment
> > > pending a special election (this was changed here in Alaska back in
> > > 2004 when Frank Murkowski resigned his senate seat to run for governor
> > > and appointed his own daughter to fill his seat).
>
> > Thank you; I did not (obviously) know that was the law.
>
> > cheers
>
> > oz
>
> I realize my response may have come across as snotty and snarky. I
> assure you, I didn't intended it to be such.
No offense taken. I also sounded teddibly cool in reaction.
Cuppa ?
cheers
oz, engaging in Alphonse and Gaston behavior
Erin
Love one, thanks!
Denny Wheeler
<karen...@hushmail.com> wrote:
>> > No, not a permanent replacement. She'd make a *temporary* appointment
>> > pending a special election (this was changed here in Alaska back in
>> > 2004 when Frank Murkowski resigned his senate seat to run for governor
>> > and appointed his own daughter to fill his seat).
>>
>> Thank you; I did not (obviously) know that was the law.
>>
>> cheers
>>
>> oz
>
>I realize my response may have come across as snotty and snarky. I
>assure you, I didn't intended it to be such.
I don't believe Oz took it as such--he was happy to have the
information.
>I think that most other states DO provide for an appointment rather
>than a special election. There's a good chance that, if a special
>election were called, the governor could file a lawsuit against it as
>being unconstitutional. It hasn't been tested, yet.
It is, as Margo said, a state-to-state thing.
Tom the Alien Cat
>
> I realize my response may have come across as snotty and snarky. I
Didn't sound that way to me, Erin. Hope my answers have been
acceptable as well.