Minor rant: Names

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Jenna Lionors

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Dec 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/9/98
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Eurgh. I am going to...yell at...the checkers at the local store.
They're trained to thank people by their last names if you have a store
card. Which is fine but why, why, why does every damn one of them call
me 'Miss'. I'm wearing a wedding ring. And shouldn't they be trained to
use 'Ms' anyway? You can't go as wrong with that. What is it? Do I look
under 18 or something? Sheesh. I will point out that my wedding ring is
engraved white gold and /really/ stands out under those lights. I don't
like being called 'Mrs', I sign myself 'Ms', but 'Miss' is much worse.
And it must be something about how I look, 'cause they all do it...

On a related note, I'm tempted to get the next thing addressed to 'Mrs
Gregory Pearson' returned to sender. I am tired of assorted relatives
and in-laws calling me that. Not only do I have my own first name, thank
you very much, but my surname is not Pearson. Both I and my husband are
feminists. I've retained my maiden name. But so far, other than from my
parents, I only have /one/ correctly addressed envelope from any member
of my family. Ironically enough, it's from the Redneck Relatives From
Hell. I don't expect it from Greg's grandmother, who still /signs/
herself 'Mrs Lester Pearson' even though Lester Pearson is /dead/. Okay,
maybe I shouldn't be so harsh on her, but if I get one more sickly
sweet, born again letter from her, with 'God be with you' or something
related at least once a paragraph, I'll...start just sending the things
back *sigh*. Oh, these letters are typed circulars sent to every
relative...alright, I'll shut up now. You don't need to respond, I just
had to get the minor irritants off my chest. Mick, got any apple cider?
I have an incredible craving for the stuff.

--
And, they ask me, why is there suffering in the world, not understanding
that it is
through suffering that we cease to be disparate individuals tossed on
the ocean of
life, and become brothers and sisters joined in a bond of love...

<<Any and all Unsolicited Commercial Email sent to this address will be
automatically deleted unread>>

Droewyn

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Dec 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/9/98
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Jenna Lionors wrote:

> Eurgh. I am going to...yell at...the checkers at the local store.
> They're trained to thank people by their last names if you have a store
> card. Which is fine but why, why, why does every damn one of them call
> me 'Miss'. I'm wearing a wedding ring. And shouldn't they be trained to
> use 'Ms' anyway? You can't go as wrong with that. What is it? Do I look
> under 18 or something? Sheesh. I will point out that my wedding ring is
> engraved white gold and /really/ stands out under those lights. I don't
> like being called 'Mrs', I sign myself 'Ms', but 'Miss' is much worse.
> And it must be something about how I look, 'cause they all do it...

Droewyn starts jumping up and down wildly, pointing to the above text. "And
*this* is why all cashiers *despise* having to address the customers by name
if they pay with a check or credit. Because while 'Mr.' is pretty much
universally accepted, a hapless checkout ringer has absolutely no way of
knowing if a female honorific will be accepted or trigger a screaming fit.
Besides, the line of bull they give you about customers liking to hear a
familiar address is just that--bull. We get more weird do-I-know-you looks
than friendly-type smiles--and I know *I* hate it when customers call me by
name. Especially the dirty-old-men types--NO COMMENTS FROM THE PEANUT
GALLERY!!! But then, a first name address is better than 'Ma'am' any day.
Do I look like a 'Ma'am' to you folks?"

Droewyn, ranting again

--
--'--,--<@ --'--,--<@ --'--,--<@ _\@/_ @>--,--'-- @>--,--'-- @>--,--'--
Sydney Allison Ashcraft |"Uncontrolled sexuality is always the
Lavender GoodWench and |inadequate hostess' excuse for serving second
Unsavory Malcontent |rate food." ~~Esther Friesner, _Demon Blues_
--'--,--<@ --'--,--<@ --'--,--<@ _\@/_ @>--,--'-- @>--,--'-- @>--,--'--

news

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Dec 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/9/98
to

Jenna Lionors wrote in message <366E1D4C...@clark.net>...

>Eurgh. I am going to...yell at...the checkers at the local store.
>They're trained to thank people by their last names if you have a store
>card. Which is fine but why, why, why does every damn one of them call
>me 'Miss'. I'm wearing a wedding ring. And shouldn't they be trained to
>use 'Ms' anyway? You can't go as wrong with that. What is it? Do I look
>under 18 or something?

Blame the public schools. Respect and dignity are no longer taught
in those instituitions.

I attended a parochial school. My manners are unreproachable.


jhe...@my-dejanews.com

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Dec 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/9/98
to
In article <366E33A5...@alagad.com>,
Droewyn <kes...@alagad.com> wrote:

>
>
> Jenna Lionors wrote:
>
> > Eurgh. I am going to...yell at...the checkers at the local store.
> > They're trained to thank people by their last names if you have a store
> > card. Which is fine but why, why, why does every damn one of them call
> > me 'Miss'. I'm wearing a wedding ring. And shouldn't they be trained to
> > use 'Ms' anyway? You can't go as wrong with that. What is it? Do I look
> > under 18 or something? Sheesh. I will point out that my wedding ring is
> > engraved white gold and /really/ stands out under those lights. I don't
> > like being called 'Mrs', I sign myself 'Ms', but 'Miss' is much worse.
> > And it must be something about how I look, 'cause they all do it...
>
> Droewyn starts jumping up and down wildly, pointing to the above text. "And
> *this* is why all cashiers *despise* having to address the customers by name
> if they pay with a check or credit. Because while 'Mr.' is pretty much
> universally accepted, a hapless checkout ringer has absolutely no way of
> knowing if a female honorific will be accepted or trigger a screaming fit.
> Besides, the line of bull they give you about customers liking to hear a
> familiar address is just that--bull. We get more weird do-I-know-you looks
> than friendly-type smiles--and I know *I* hate it when customers call me by
> name. Especially the dirty-old-men types--NO COMMENTS FROM THE PEANUT
> GALLERY!!! But then, a first name address is better than 'Ma'am' any day.
> Do I look like a 'Ma'am' to you folks?"
>
> Droewyn, ranting again
>
> --
> --'--,--<@ --'--,--<@ --'--,--<@ _\@/_ @>--,--'-- @>--,--'-- @>--,--'--
> Sydney Allison Ashcraft |"Uncontrolled sexuality is always the
> Lavender GoodWench and |inadequate hostess' excuse for serving second
> Unsavory Malcontent |rate food." ~~Esther Friesner, _Demon Blues_
> --'--,--<@ --'--,--<@ --'--,--<@ _\@/_ @>--,--'-- @>--,--'-- @>--,--'--
>
>

Yes, you look like a Ma'am from here. All the proper curves.

Note to your employers: my aged mother hates being addressed by name by
people she's never met. Has been known to avoid stores like yours just
because of that. She's old enough (90) to have been raised under formal
rules of etiquette (whereas I have to look the word up to spell it
correctly). _Her_ you should refer to as 'Ma'am.'

--
Jim
Cleanly Old Man

-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

Margaret Whittleton

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Dec 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/9/98
to
On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Jenna Lionors wrote:

(Large snip)


I don't expect it from Greg's grandmother, who still /signs/
> herself 'Mrs Lester Pearson' even though Lester Pearson is /dead/.

Jenna:

Yikes, you're "Mike" Pearson's grand-daughter-in-law?

Actually, I presume this is a different Lester Pearson not the Nobel Peace
Prize winning, former Canadian Prime Minister.<G> I'm not sure if Mrs
Pearson is even still alive.

Marg

jhe...@my-dejanews.com

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Dec 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/9/98
to
In article <366e6...@news.busprod.com>,

"news" <gab...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Jenna Lionors wrote in message <366E1D4C...@clark.net>...
> >Eurgh. I am going to...yell at...the checkers at the local store.
> >They're trained to thank people by their last names if you have a store
> >card. Which is fine but why, why, why does every damn one of them call
> >me 'Miss'. I'm wearing a wedding ring. And shouldn't they be trained to
> >use 'Ms' anyway? You can't go as wrong with that. What is it? Do I look
> >under 18 or something?
>
> Blame the public schools. Respect and dignity are no longer taught
> in those instituitions.
>
> I attended a parochial school. My manners are unreproachable.
>
>

General usage is 'irreproachable.' Hi, Gabe.
Buy you a drink?

--
Jim
"Sentence first -- verdict afterwards." The Red Queen

Austin Ziegler

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Dec 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/9/98
to
Margaret Whittleton (mwhi...@gbrownc.on.ca) wrote:
: Marg

Are any other folks thinking of Marg Delahunte when you sign your posts
like this?

-f, "Marg, warrior princess!"
--
austin ziegler * fanto...@yahoo.com * Ni bhionn an rath
live, from .ca * aus...@netscape.net * ach mar a mbionn
* azie...@solect.com * an smacht
There is no luck *----------------------* without discipline

WareWolf

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Dec 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/9/98
to

Jenna Lionors wrote in message <366E1D4C...@clark.net>...
>Eurgh. I am going to...yell at...the checkers at the local store.
>They're trained to thank people by their last names if you have a store
>card. Which is fine but why, why, why does every damn one of them call
>me 'Miss'. I'm wearing a wedding ring. And shouldn't they be trained to
>use 'Ms' anyway? You can't go as wrong with that.

LOL!

This is one of the reasons I'm proud of ebing a Southerner. We've been
slurring the Miss and Mrs. together to form "Miz" as long as anyone can
remember, Miz Lionors.

And you thought it was just laziness.

Dusty


Bart Hammerly

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Dec 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/9/98
to
> Droewyn starts jumping up and down wildly, pointing to the above text. "And
> *this* is why all cashiers *despise* having to address the customers by name
> if they pay with a check or credit. Because while 'Mr.' is pretty much
> universally accepted, a hapless checkout ringer has absolutely no way of
> knowing if a female honorific will be accepted or trigger a screaming fit.
> Besides, the line of bull they give you about customers liking to hear a
> familiar address is just that--bull. We get more weird do-I-know-you looks
> than friendly-type smiles--and I know *I* hate it when customers call me by
> name. Especially the dirty-old-men types--NO COMMENTS FROM THE PEANUT
> GALLERY!!! But then, a first name address is better than 'Ma'am' any day.
> Do I look like a 'Ma'am' to you folks?"

No, you look like a courier, but that's just my font.

I detest being called, "sir".

I hate being called Mr. Hammerly. That's my father.

I hate being called Bartholomew. Only 1 in 10 get it right.

But anyone can call me sexy.
--
Phoenix

"Time is the fire in which we burn."
IM barth70

The Trinker

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Dec 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/9/98
to

Jenna Lionors wrote:
>
> Eurgh. I am going to...yell at...the checkers at the local store.
> They're trained to thank people by their last names if you have a store
> card. Which is fine but why, why, why does every damn one of them call
> me 'Miss'. I'm wearing a wedding ring. And shouldn't they be trained to

> use 'Ms' anyway? You can't go as wrong with that. What is it? Do I look

> under 18 or something? Sheesh. I will point out that my wedding ring is
> engraved white gold and /really/ stands out under those lights. I don't
> like being called 'Mrs', I sign myself 'Ms', but 'Miss' is much worse.
> And it must be something about how I look, 'cause they all do it...

Better than that oh so friendly by your first name how are you, from
your store card. CreepyChecker(tm) at my local supermarket does that,
and it makes me want to smack him. He once pawed at my mail, too.
It's enough to make me want to carry an electric cattleprod.

Maybe it's the age thing, or where you live. Ms is fighting words,
I'm told, in some parts of the woods. In those places I've lived
in California, Ms is obligatory.


> On a related note, I'm tempted to get the next thing addressed to 'Mrs
> Gregory Pearson' returned to sender. I am tired of assorted relatives
> and in-laws calling me that. Not only do I have my own first name, thank

>[snip]

Poor Jenna. Very traditional, are they? Sigh. Although, I'm
wondering,
are they sending to "Mr & Mrs." ? Have you tried sending out another
general "to everyone" letter, letting them know? (It probably won't
work. :P ) I've gotten used to answering to all sorts of things which
aren't my name. (grumble). One client's entire office (with the
exception of our contact) calls me by a name I really hate, that I
haven't used in years. I can't break them of it. (Damn that French
list list of approved names!)

the trinker
--
spam filtered. To send e-mail remove the spamtrap.

Kate

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Dec 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/9/98
to
Droewyn wrote

>Jenna Lionors wrote:
>
>> Eurgh. I am going to...yell at...the checkers at the local store.
>> They're trained to thank people by their last names if you have a store
>> card. Which is fine but why, why, why does every damn one of them call
>> me 'Miss'. I'm wearing a wedding ring. And shouldn't they be trained to
>> use 'Ms' anyway? You can't go as wrong with that. What is it? Do I look
>> under 18 or something? Sheesh. I will point out that my wedding ring is
>> engraved white gold and /really/ stands out under those lights. I don't
>> like being called 'Mrs', I sign myself 'Ms', but 'Miss' is much worse.
>> And it must be something about how I look, 'cause they all do it...
>
>Droewyn starts jumping up and down wildly, pointing to the above text. "And
>*this* is why all cashiers *despise* having to address the customers by name
>if they pay with a check or credit. Because while 'Mr.' is pretty much
>universally accepted, a hapless checkout ringer has absolutely no way of
>knowing if a female honorific will be accepted or trigger a screaming fit.
>Besides, the line of bull they give you about customers liking to hear a
>familiar address is just that--bull. We get more weird do-I-know-you looks
>than friendly-type smiles--and I know *I* hate it when customers call me by
>name. Especially the dirty-old-men types--NO COMMENTS FROM THE PEANUT
>GALLERY!!! But then, a first name address is better than 'Ma'am' any day.
>Do I look like a 'Ma'am' to you folks?"
>
>Droewyn, ranting again

The laptop model goodwench laughs. "When I was working in retail, I used "Ms
{whatever} as a default until told otherwise by the customer. Or I'd avoid the
honorifics. "Excuse me, please," instead of "excuse me ma'am," or "Thank you
very much, you have a good evening," instead of "Thank you, ma'am. Have a nice
night."

"Me, I'd rather be called "Miss" than "Ma'am" any day of the week. Having moved
to the South last year, I've gotten used to it some, but it makes me feel *old.*
Depending on my mood, I will sometimes smile gently and say, "Do I look old
enough to be your momma? I know you're just being polite, but "Miss," please, or
you can call me Kate."

Kate
Weather on IRC

remove spamblock to reply

It was a blonde. A blonde to make a bishop kick a hole in a stained-glass
window.--Raymond Chandler

New featured pick of the month at Stormy Weather Books--in association with
amazon.com-- http://www.angelfire.com/tn/smartblonde/bibliophile.html

Margaret Whittleton

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Dec 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/9/98
to Austin Ziegler
On Wed, 9 Dec 1998, Austin Ziegler wrote:

> Margaret Whittleton (mwhi...@gbrownc.on.ca) wrote:
> : Marg
>
> Are any other folks thinking of Marg Delahunte when you sign your posts
> like this?
>
> -f, "Marg, warrior princess!"
> --


Hey, I think you've just given me my new signature line! (I'm even built
along Marg Delahunte's lines)<G>

May I buy you a BOYC?

Marg,

cat person, Vanilla Goodwench, biker AND warrior princess!!

p & e


cas caswell

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Dec 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/9/98
to Droewyn
Droewyn wrote:


<Jenna Lionors checker complaint and the start of Droweyn's rant
snipped for brevity >

> Besides, the line of bull they give you about customers liking to hear
>a familiar address is just that--bull. We get more weird do-I-know-you

Amen! then again my call name is not on my id anywhere, and it takes my
mom's voice to make me respond to my given name in a crowd. So for me
it's really weird.

<more snippage>

> GALLERY!!! But then, a first name address is better than 'Ma'am' any
> day. Do I look like a 'Ma'am' to you folks?"

well since you asked... to me you do. However, that's because I don't
know you. We haven't been introduced and all that. Would I call you
Ma'am here? no. you've requested that that term not be used quite
clearly <grin>.

if i bumped into you in public, yup. I'd call you Ma'am 'cause you're
identifiably female and I don't know you.

This is all stuff that got programmed when I was a youngster. Sir
and Ma'am. Mr, Miss, Misses until asked otherwise. I'd dropped most of
it. But now that I have a 2 year old at home it's come back. I guess
I'm modeling polite behavior for her. The one change is I alway use
Ms unless I know for sure the lady in question prefers one of the older
terms. It's interesting to see the little time bombs mom and dad set.

I have to admit I get some strange looks from people younger than I am
when I call them Sir or Ma'am. But it's rather deeply ingrained right
now. I may have to rethink the behavior if I see it bugs more people.

At anyrate that's why this member of the great clueless masses often
uses Ma'am. Hope you understand it's not meant to be offensive.

I'd offer you some english ... lavendar. But it's already harvested and
stuck in pillows for holiday gifts this year.

BOYC? Cas slides a pair of suzy-bs across the bar to Mike. Coffee
please, neat and hot.

--
Cas Caswell (ca...@cup.hp.com) BTW I said it, not my company.

Bart Hammerly

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Dec 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/9/98
to
jhe...@my-dejanews.com wrote:

> In article <366e6...@news.busprod.com>,
> "news" <gab...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >

> > Jenna Lionors wrote in message <366E1D4C...@clark.net>...

> > >Eurgh. I am going to...yell at...the checkers at the local store.
> > >They're trained to thank people by their last names if you have a store
> > >card. Which is fine but why, why, why does every damn one of them call
> > >me 'Miss'. I'm wearing a wedding ring. And shouldn't they be trained to
> > >use 'Ms' anyway? You can't go as wrong with that. What is it? Do I look
> > >under 18 or something?
> >

> > Blame the public schools. Respect and dignity are no longer taught
> > in those instituitions.
> >
> > I attended a parochial school. My manners are unreproachable.
> >
> >
>
> General usage is 'irreproachable.' Hi, Gabe.
> Buy you a drink?

...and he's wrong. I consider his manners to be non-existent, IMO.

Lee S. Billings

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Dec 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/9/98
to
In article <366E33A5...@alagad.com>, kes...@alagad.com says...

>
>
>
>Jenna Lionors wrote:
>
>> Eurgh. I am going to...yell at...the checkers at the local store.
>> They're trained to thank people by their last names if you have a
store
>> card. Which is fine but why, why, why does every damn one of them
call
>> me 'Miss'. I'm wearing a wedding ring. And shouldn't they be trained
to
>> use 'Ms' anyway? You can't go as wrong with that. What is it? Do I
look
>> under 18 or something? Sheesh. I will point out that my wedding ring
is
>> engraved white gold and /really/ stands out under those lights. I
don't
>> like being called 'Mrs', I sign myself 'Ms', but 'Miss' is much
worse.
>> And it must be something about how I look, 'cause they all do it...
>
>Droewyn starts jumping up and down wildly, pointing to the above text.
"And
>*this* is why all cashiers *despise* having to address the customers
by name
>if they pay with a check or credit. Because while 'Mr.' is pretty
much
>universally accepted, a hapless checkout ringer has absolutely no way
of
>knowing if a female honorific will be accepted or trigger a screaming
fit.

That's very true -- and *both* sides of that question will get
extremely offended if addressed by what they consider the "wrong"
title. So you can't win.

>Besides, the line of bull they give you about customers liking to hear
a
>familiar address is just that--bull. We get more weird do-I-know-you

looks
>than friendly-type smiles.

Sing it, sister! There are a couple of restaurants around here which I
do not patronize because they insist on calling out your *first* name
when your order is ready, and that just bugs me. Being addressed by my
last name is tolerable, but is it really necessary? As you point out,
we're complete strangers. Now, it might be different with a small shop
where I'm a regular customer, but not in a huge retail store.

>But then, a first name address is better than 'Ma'am' any day.
>Do I look like a 'Ma'am' to you folks?"

I'll take "Ma'am" any day over "Honey" or "Sweetie"; I've been known to
pointedly *say*, "Don't call me that, I don't know you from a hole in
the ground," when addressed by the latter.

I know, objecting to misplaced endearments makes me a bitch... whoopee
shit.

Celine

--
"Art comes from the heart, but the heart is instructed by the culture."

-- Janet Kagan, _HellSpark_


Lee S. Billings

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Dec 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/9/98
to
In article <366e6...@news.busprod.com>, gab...@yahoo.com says...

>
>
>Jenna Lionors wrote in message <366E1D4C...@clark.net>...
>>Eurgh. I am going to...yell at...the checkers at the local store.
>>They're trained to thank people by their last names if you have a
store
>>card. Which is fine but why, why, why does every damn one of them
call
>>me 'Miss'. I'm wearing a wedding ring. And shouldn't they be trained
to
>>use 'Ms' anyway? You can't go as wrong with that. What is it? Do I
look
>>under 18 or something?
>
>Blame the public schools. Respect and dignity are no longer taught
>in those instituitions.
>
>I attended a parochial school. My manners are unreproachable.

Hi, Gabe! I see you found another identity! Maybe you'll keep this one
for a while...

Don't blame the schools; it's the *parents'* business to teach things
like manners. Schools have been expected to do a lot of the things
parents aren't doing any more, but that's not the way things are
supposed to work.

Pat Kight

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Dec 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/9/98
to
jhe...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> Note to your employers: my aged mother hates being addressed by name by
> people she's never met. Has been known to avoid stores like yours just
> because of that. She's old enough (90) to have been raised under formal
> rules of etiquette (whereas I have to look the word up to spell it
> correctly). _Her_ you should refer to as 'Ma'am.'

The Spinster down in the Lounge listens to Jenna's rant and the
responses.

"Huh. Interesting.

"My local Safeway only started calling customers by name recently. And I
think they had some sort of sensitivity training, 'cause all the
checkers seem to uniformly slur the female honorific to something akin
to `muhssss,' which could reasonably be interpreted as Miss, Mrs. or
Ms., depending on one's preference.

"I have to admit I kind of like it. Probably because every one of them,
so far, has managed to pronounce my last name correctly on the first try
-- which, in my experience, is a rarity!"

--Jezebel
kig...@peak.org

The Trinker

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Dec 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/9/98
to

Schools used to teach "civics", didn't they? Wasn't manners,
but it was about civic responsibility and duty, or so I'm told.

I think there's a place in the curriculum for that. It's a crying
shame that most HS students (and yes, I know we all know counter-
examples) don't know how the US Constitution works, or how you
become a citizen, or what taxes pay for, etc. (If you're not
an American, please either substitute the appropriate words, or
smile smugly and ignore. :)

Pat Kight

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Dec 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/9/98
to
news wrote:
>
> Jenna Lionors wrote in message <366E1D4C...@clark.net>...
> >Eurgh. I am going to...yell at...the checkers at the local store.
> >They're trained to thank people by their last names if you have a store
> >card. Which is fine but why, why, why does every damn one of them call
> >me 'Miss'. I'm wearing a wedding ring. And shouldn't they be trained to
> >use 'Ms' anyway? You can't go as wrong with that. What is it? Do I look
> >under 18 or something?
>
> Blame the public schools. Respect and dignity are no longer taught
> in those instituitions.

"Nonsense," says Jezebel. "Blame, if you must blame anything, the fact
that the American public is presently of a divided opinion on the
question of female honorifics. A significant number of American women
prefer `Ms.' and will get pissed off if referred to otherwise. A
probably equally significant number of American women prefer `Mrs.' and
will get pissed off if you call them `Ms.' I don't know *anyone* who's
wild about `Miss,' except possibly in parts of the South."


>
> I attended a parochial school. My manners are unreproachable.

Noting who it is that's making this statement, Jezebel is overcome with
a fit of choking giggles.

--Jez
kig...@peak.org

Kerry J. Renaissance

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Dec 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/9/98
to
On Wed, 9 Dec 1998 07:43:51 -0500, "news" <gab...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>Jenna Lionors wrote in message <366E1D4C...@clark.net>...
>>Eurgh. I am going to...yell at...the checkers at the local store.
>>They're trained to thank people by their last names if you have a store
>>card. Which is fine but why, why, why does every damn one of them call
>>me 'Miss'. I'm wearing a wedding ring. And shouldn't they be trained to
>>use 'Ms' anyway? You can't go as wrong with that. What is it? Do I look
>>under 18 or something?
>
>Blame the public schools. Respect and dignity are no longer taught
>in those instituitions.
>

>I attended a parochial school. My manners are unreproachable.

I'm fairly sure that respect and dignity were never the purvue of
_any_ school. And I'm not entirely sure they should be, though I
could wish for schools which don't encourage the pack-of-hungry-wolves
mentality.

It's my impression that respect and dignity are social obligations,
and as such, fall under the parental obligations. Of course, the
parents themselves must know such things before they can teach them to
their offspring.

-- Kerry J. Renaissance
Master Fireweaver
http://www.mills.edu/PEOPLE/ug.pages/
kerryren.public.html/kerryren.homepage.html

"Are people basically good?" - Susan Calvin, "I, Robot"
(Asimov and Ellison, screenplay)

Droewyn

unread,
Dec 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/9/98
to

news wrote:

> Blame the public schools. Respect and dignity are no longer taught
> in those instituitions.
>
> I attended a parochial school. My manners are unreproachable.

Your manners. Well, let's take a look at your manners, shall we? In
rec.food.cooking, you asked if they knew how to prepare cats. In
misc.fitness.weights you said that beef tongue is healthy and fat people
should eat it. And who could forget in alt.austin.politics, where you gave
a four-post dissertation on "Facts and Statistics About Fags." Certainly,
your manners are ... something.

Droewyn

jhe...@my-dejanews.com

unread,
Dec 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/9/98
to
In article <74mgro$6g5$6...@camel0.mindspring.com>,

stard...@mindspring.com (Lee S. Billings) wrote:
>
> I'll take "Ma'am" any day over "Honey" or "Sweetie"; I've been known to
> pointedly *say*, "Don't call me that, I don't know you from a hole in
> the ground," when addressed by the latter.
>
> I know, objecting to misplaced endearments makes me a bitch... whoopee
> shit.
>
> Celine

You'd spend life on a slow burn if you lived or traveled in some areas of the
South. Where/when I grew up, it was common practice to address total
strangers as 'honey', 'sugah', 'dee-ah', and the like. That's the reason I
ticked you off with a post a few months back.

Does that make you a bitch? Not unless you can swivel your ears.

Droewyn

unread,
Dec 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/9/98
to

Kate wrote:

> The laptop model goodwench laughs. "When I was working in retail, I used "Ms
> {whatever} as a default until told otherwise by the customer. Or I'd avoid the
> honorifics. "Excuse me, please," instead of "excuse me ma'am," or "Thank you
> very much, you have a good evening," instead of "Thank you, ma'am. Have a nice
> night."
>

Exactly. You can be friendly without having to say the customer's name back to
them. They know who they are. There were a handful of customers I used to deal
with on a regular basis. *Them* I called by their names. We also talked about
their children, and my classes, and the various pros and cons of <insert subject
name here>. Most customers want you to be friendly, but not personal, IMO.


>
> "Me, I'd rather be called "Miss" than "Ma'am" any day of the week. Having moved
> to the South last year, I've gotten used to it some, but it makes me feel *old.*
> Depending on my mood, I will sometimes smile gently and say, "Do I look old
> enough to be your momma? I know you're just being polite, but "Miss," please, or
> you can call me Kate."

I feel the same way. Then again, as Celine said in email, "Ma'am" is loads better
than "honey," "sweety," or "darling." By a perfect stranger, of course; family and
Family are allowed.

Jenna Lionors

unread,
Dec 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/9/98
to kig...@peak.org
> "My local Safeway only started calling customers by name recently. And I
> think they had some sort of sensitivity training, 'cause all the
> checkers seem to uniformly slur the female honorific to something akin
> to `muhssss,' which could reasonably be interpreted as Miss, Mrs. or
> Ms., depending on one's preference.
>
> "I have to admit I kind of like it. Probably because every one of them,
> so far, has managed to pronounce my last name correctly on the first try
> -- which, in my experience, is a rarity!"

Well, this is a Safeway, so I guess you have a better one than me. Although I
will admit that they /do/ manage to pronounce my last name right at least
more often than not. Which is nice when you have a name so obscure that you
can reasonably assume that anyone else with it is related to you.

Jenna Lionors

unread,
Dec 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/9/98
to Margaret Whittleton
>
> Yikes, you're "Mike" Pearson's grand-daughter-in-law?
>
> Actually, I presume this is a different Lester Pearson not the Nobel Peace
> Prize winning, former Canadian Prime Minister.<G> I'm not sure if Mrs
> Pearson is even still alive.
>
> Marg

*laugh* No. That's a /completely/ new one. But in addition to that, my
father-in-law has the same name as a rather noted stock car driver of the
past. I guess I'm glad I have a name that /nobody/ is likely to duplicate. In
our phone book, there is /one/ other instance of my last name...

Droewyn

unread,
Dec 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/9/98
to

cas caswell wrote:

> Droewyn wrote:
>

> > GALLERY!!! But then, a first name address is better than 'Ma'am' any


> > day. Do I look like a 'Ma'am' to you folks?"
>

> well since you asked... to me you do. However, that's because I don't
> know you. We haven't been introduced and all that. Would I call you
> Ma'am here? no. you've requested that that term not be used quite
> clearly <grin>.
>
> if i bumped into you in public, yup. I'd call you Ma'am 'cause you're
> identifiably female and I don't know you.
>

Hmm... it's interesting. Most male responses in here have been along the
lines of "why not, it's an address of female respect?", while most female
responses are closer to my reaction of "Ma'am? Do I look *old*??" Any
thoughts on this?

Droewyn


>
> This is all stuff that got programmed when I was a youngster. Sir
> and Ma'am. Mr, Miss, Misses until asked otherwise. I'd dropped most of
> it. But now that I have a 2 year old at home it's come back. I guess
> I'm modeling polite behavior for her. The one change is I alway use
> Ms unless I know for sure the lady in question prefers one of the older
> terms. It's interesting to see the little time bombs mom and dad set.
>
> I have to admit I get some strange looks from people younger than I am
> when I call them Sir or Ma'am. But it's rather deeply ingrained right
> now. I may have to rethink the behavior if I see it bugs more people.
>
> At anyrate that's why this member of the great clueless masses often
> uses Ma'am. Hope you understand it's not meant to be offensive.
>
> I'd offer you some english ... lavendar. But it's already harvested and
> stuck in pillows for holiday gifts this year.
>
> BOYC? Cas slides a pair of suzy-bs across the bar to Mike. Coffee
> please, neat and hot.
>
> --
> Cas Caswell (ca...@cup.hp.com) BTW I said it, not my company.

--

Droewyn

unread,
Dec 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/9/98
to

cas caswell wrote:

> I'd offer you some english ... lavendar. But it's already harvested and
> stuck in pillows for holiday gifts this year.
>

I'll take a pillow then, if you like. I love lavender!


>
> BOYC? Cas slides a pair of suzy-bs across the bar to Mike. Coffee
> please, neat and hot.
>

Thanks, a caramel cider please.

Droewyn

Liana Olear

unread,
Dec 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/9/98
to
cas caswell <ca...@cup.hp.com> wrote:

: This is all stuff that got programmed when I was a youngster. Sir


: and Ma'am. Mr, Miss, Misses until asked otherwise. I'd dropped most of
: it. But now that I have a 2 year old at home it's come back. I guess
: I'm modeling polite behavior for her. The one change is I alway use
: Ms unless I know for sure the lady in question prefers one of the older
: terms. It's interesting to see the little time bombs mom and dad set.

I'll take Miss, but I prefer Ms. Ma'am makes me feel old. And to me,
the sound combination involved sounds silly and rather annoying. Of
course, as luck would have it, I happen to live in a town with a Naval
Academy, and if I ever need to talk to a random midshipman (ask for
directions, for instance), they call me Ma'am.

Given my options I'd rather not be addressed by strangers at all. My name
from a random stranger sounds a touch weird (although better then
alternatives). If it's necessary to get my attention, "Ma'am" would not
do it. "Excuse me" would probably do a better job. And if my attention
is already there, just talk to me, and get to the point. And "Have a nice
day" is in my opinion just as good as "Have a nice day [insert address]"

But that's just me...

Liana

Droewyn

unread,
Dec 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/9/98
to

Lee S. Billings wrote:

> >But then, a first name address is better than 'Ma'am' any day.
> >Do I look like a 'Ma'am' to you folks?"
>

> I'll take "Ma'am" any day over "Honey" or "Sweetie"; I've been known to
> pointedly *say*, "Don't call me that, I don't know you from a hole in
> the ground," when addressed by the latter.
>
> I know, objecting to misplaced endearments makes me a bitch... whoopee
> shit.
>

Okay, I'll give you that one. Endearments from complete strangers make me
*extremely* uncomfortable.

Austin Ziegler

unread,
Dec 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/9/98
to
Phoenix:
: > > I attended a parochial school. My manners are unreproachable.
: > General usage is 'irreproachable.' Hi, Gabe.
: ...and he's wrong. I consider his manners to be non-existent, IMO.

Wouldn't that be "unapproachable", then?

-f

Lee S. Billings

unread,
Dec 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/9/98
to
In article <366EC9E7...@vincent-tanaka.spamtrap.com>,
k...@vincent-tanaka.spamtrap.com says...

>
>
>
>"Lee S. Billings" wrote:
>>
>> In article <366e6...@news.busprod.com>, gab...@yahoo.com says...

>> >Blame the public schools. Respect and dignity are no longer
>> >taught in those instituitions.
>> >


>> >I attended a parochial school. My manners are unreproachable.
>>

>> Don't blame the schools; it's the *parents'* business to teach
things
>> like manners. Schools have been expected to do a lot of the things
>> parents aren't doing any more, but that's not the way things are
>> supposed to work.
>>
>> Celine
>
>Schools used to teach "civics", didn't they? Wasn't manners,
>but it was about civic responsibility and duty, or so I'm told.
>
>I think there's a place in the curriculum for that. It's a crying
>shame that most HS students (and yes, I know we all know counter-
>examples) don't know how the US Constitution works, or how you
>become a citizen, or what taxes pay for, etc. (If you're not
>an American, please either substitute the appropriate words, or
>smile smugly and ignore. :)

I agree with you -- but that's not the same thing as schools teaching
social manners, which is what Gabe was advocating. *That* kind of
teaching is the parents' job, not the schoolteacher's.

Jacque

unread,
Dec 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/9/98
to
[Jenna Lionors rants about female honorifics and specious familiarity.]

Me too, me too!!

<RANT>
Feh. The one I hate is that, lately, people don't seem to be bothering
with the "do you go by--?" step. I finally figured out it's partly
because I've been breaking in a lot of new health-care workers in the
last year, but lately absolutely EVERY professional I've been dealing
with insists on calling me "Jacqueline."

I'm sorry, but the only person who EVER called me Jacqueline (up until
this mis-begotten year) was my mother, and even then only when she was
being particularly obsequious. (Mercifully, I didn't get when she was
angry--icy silence was reserved for that occassion.) Hearing that name
still makes my skin crawl.

Doesn't help that the long form is what appears on all of my legal
documentation and medical records. I can't tell if people have just
gotten too lazy to put a "goes by" note on the print-outs, or what,
but it's gotten bad enough that I've been seriously tempted to get my
name changed legally.

And here, the false-familiarity policy is to call people by their first
name, so I have checkers looking at my check and saying "Thank you,
Jacqueline."

Rrrr. Hmph.

And while we're on the subject of female honorifics, I have to say
that it annoys me no end to be required to declare my gender. Even in
totally irrelevant contexts, like magazine subscriptions. At LEAST now
they have Ms, so you don't have to declare your marital status, too.
(And there's no good smart-ass response, like there is for race or
sex.) I mean, for heaven's sake, why does National Geographic care if I
have an innie or an outie? Yeah, yeah, I know, no gender-neutral
honorific in the English language....

Hmph, I say.
</RANT>

(And I suppose the moral of that story, for service-industry workers,
is: "You can't win.")

--jm
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hell is not being able to face the truth about existance. --J.M. Egolf
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jacque Marshall jacquemATnetcomDOTcom
http://www.eskimo.com/~jacquem (un-spammex with actual characters)

Jacque

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Dec 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/9/98
to
In article <74mqnc$86o$1...@camel19.mindspring.com>,

Lee S. Billings <stard...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>In article <366EC9E7...@vincent-tanaka.spamtrap.com>,
>k...@vincent-tanaka.spamtrap.com says...
>>
>>"Lee S. Billings" wrote:
>>>
>>> In article <366e6...@news.busprod.com>, gab...@yahoo.com says...
>
>>> >Blame the public schools. Respect and dignity are no longer
>>> >taught in those instituitions.
>>> >
>>> >I attended a parochial school. My manners are unreproachable.
>>>
>>> Don't blame the schools; it's the *parents'* business to teach
>>> things
>>> like manners. Schools have been expected to do a lot of the things
>>> parents aren't doing any more, but that's not the way things are
>>> supposed to work.
>>>
>>> Celine
>>
>>Schools used to teach "civics", didn't they? Wasn't manners,
>>but it was about civic responsibility and duty, or so I'm told.
>
>I agree with you -- but that's not the same thing as schools teaching
>social manners, which is what Gabe was advocating. *That* kind of
>teaching is the parents' job, not the schoolteacher's.

Actually, parental and educational responsibility aside, I think a big
part of the problem derives from living in a highly-mobile, rapidly-
evolving, diverse culture: there are just *too many* etiquettes (did I
get enough Es and Ts, in the right places?). It's impossible to keep
track anymore. I think the last time there was any hope of having a
consistent, culturally-agreed-upon standard for personal address was,
oh, say about twenty-five years ago....

Hell, folks in this part of the country can't even agree on a standard
response for encountering a stranger on the sidewalk! I actually LIKE
New York's policy: ignore everybody. THAT I can do.

c.c.sb...@55.killspam.us.com

unread,
Dec 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/9/98
to
In article <jacquemF...@netcom.com>, Jacque (jacquemATnetcomDOTcom) wrote:

[snip - first name rant]


> And while we're on the subject of female honorifics, I have to say
> that it annoys me no end to be required to declare my gender. Even in
> totally irrelevant contexts, like magazine subscriptions. At LEAST now
> they have Ms, so you don't have to declare your marital status, too.
> (And there's no good smart-ass response, like there is for race or
> sex.) I mean, for heaven's sake, why does National Geographic care if I
> have an innie or an outie? Yeah, yeah, I know, no gender-neutral
> honorific in the English language....

> Hmph, I say.

Double Hmph. <AOL>Me Too</AOL>

I, for one, would like to see something like Mx. Mister, Missus, Miss,
and Mizz all rolled into one M(i)x. Mx. Asteris, Mx. S. Robinson, Mx. J.
Marshall, etc. You get the idea.

Ravan
--
Ravan Asteris rasteris / at \ rahul / dot \ net
(squish "/ and \" to make symbols like "&")
http://www.rahul.net/rasteris/

GABRIEL MEDINA

unread,
Dec 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/9/98
to
Droewyn is bearing false witness!

Poor gabadab never posted in alt.austin.politics!

gabadab is right in saying the Droewyn is an impugner!


Jake Katz & Associates

unread,
Dec 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/9/98
to
In article <366EDFB0...@alagad.com>, Droewyn says...
>
> news [sic], whom we all know and love as gabadab [who's a bit down in the
> dumps himself], wrote:
>
> > Blame the public schools. Respect and dignity are no longer taught
> > in those instituitions.
^^^^^^^

The skunk *nods*. Sad, isn't it? It's because they can't charge
"_TUTION_."

> > I attended a parochial school.

...where they apparently don't teach spelling.

> > My manners are unreproachable.
^^^^^^^

I shall not mention what barnyard word you appear to have misspelled
there.

;-D

Meffy the Wicked li'l Skunk, who frequently misspells words, and who
reads plenty of misspelled words that others type -- but who doesn't
mind a BIT unless it's someone putting on airs

Jimmy M. Pierce

unread,
Dec 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/9/98
to
Jacque wrote:
: Hell, folks in this part of the country can't even agree on a standard

: response for encountering a stranger on the sidewalk! I actually LIKE
: New York's policy: ignore everybody. THAT I can do.

Sure they can, but its not too viable in cities.

I grew up in a small Texas town back in the 1950s. You nodded or said
hello to folks as you walked down the sidewalk. Hmmm. Oh yeah,
on Saturdays, when lots of folks would be in town shopping, you could
just say howdy to the folks you knew, not everyone in sight.

When we moved elsewhere, folks didn't do that. Those towns and cities
felt cold shouldered and withdrawn.

DJ.
--
Jim Pierce jmpi...@DESPAMMEDocean.otr.usm.edu Disclaimer: Standard.
Video: Smash Mouth 'Walking on the Sun'
updated Nov. 24, 1998 My Web page: http://ocean.otr.usm.edu/~jmpierce
Coast Con 22. March 19-21, 1999. http://www.coastcon.org/

Rick Davis

unread,
Dec 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/9/98
to
On Wed, 09 Dec 1998 11:13:08 -0800, Pat Kight wrote:

>"My local Safeway only started calling customers by name recently. And I
>think they had some sort of sensitivity training, 'cause all the
>checkers seem to uniformly slur the female honorific to something akin
>to `muhssss,' which could reasonably be interpreted as Miss, Mrs. or
>Ms., depending on one's preference.
>
>"I have to admit I kind of like it. Probably because every one of them,
>so far, has managed to pronounce my last name correctly on the first try
>-- which, in my experience, is a rarity!"

Your name is easy, as long as you don't accidently read an extra letter
into it. ;-) My neighbor's name is a bit tougher. It's spelled
"Meyerhoeffer." It's pronounced "Mow-heffer."

Rick, who's not gonna mention how many times he's been called Mr. Davies
or Davidson.

--
Rick Davis rdd...@rica.net
"You've got to find what you like and let it kill you."

The Lone One

unread,
Dec 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/9/98
to
On 9 Dec 1998, Rick Davis wrote:

> On Wed, 09 Dec 1998 11:13:08 -0800, Pat Kight wrote:
>
> >"My local Safeway only started calling customers by name recently. And I
> >think they had some sort of sensitivity training, 'cause all the
> >checkers seem to uniformly slur the female honorific to something akin
> >to `muhssss,' which could reasonably be interpreted as Miss, Mrs. or
> >Ms., depending on one's preference.
> >
> >"I have to admit I kind of like it. Probably because every one of them,
> >so far, has managed to pronounce my last name correctly on the first try
> >-- which, in my experience, is a rarity!"
>
> Your name is easy, as long as you don't accidently read an extra letter
> into it. ;-) My neighbor's name is a bit tougher. It's spelled
> "Meyerhoeffer." It's pronounced "Mow-heffer."

"Meyer Library here... it's pronounced, AFAIK, 'mi-er'. I think."

TLO

"And I am far more terrible than you, my sister."
-- Dream to Death, 'Sandman'


Starshadow

unread,
Dec 9, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/9/98
to

Susan Cohen wrote in message <366F6060...@smart.NOSPAMnet>...

>
>
>Jenna Lionors wrote:
>
>> Eurgh. I am going to...yell at...the checkers at the local store.
>> They're trained to thank people by their last names if you have a store
>> card.
>
>I am pyschic: You shop at Safeway.

>
>> Which is fine but why, why, why does every damn one of them call
>> me 'Miss'. I'm wearing a wedding ring. And shouldn't they be trained to
>> use 'Ms' anyway? You can't go as wrong with that. What is it? Do I look
>> under 18 or something? Sheesh. I will point out that my wedding ring is
>> engraved white gold and /really/ stands out under those lights. I don't
>> like being called 'Mrs', I sign myself 'Ms', but 'Miss' is much worse.
>> And it must be something about how I look, 'cause they all do it...
>
>Heck, you should try handing them a card which has your name on it,
>& still having the bozos call you "Mrs. Smith" whe hyou are *clearly*
>"Ms. Jones" - as it says on your credit card.
>
>(No, I am not psychic (on this question). I shop at Safeway).
>
>> On a related note, I'm tempted to get the next thing addressed to 'Mrs
>> Gregory Pearson' returned to sender.
>
>HEY - I get the same feeling about stuff sent to me like I'm jsut Mrs.
Gary!
>
>> I am tired of assorted relatives and in-laws calling me that.
>
>Yes - it's relatives for me as well! But when it's your own grandmother...
>
>> You don't need to respond,
>
>Oh, yes I did!!!
>
>> I just
>> had to get the minor irritants off my chest. Mick, got any apple cider?
>> I have an incredible craving for the stuff.
>
>After you serve it, send the tab to me! (A sand dollar lands in the till)
>
>Susan


I just had to add to this thread to add my own thing I'm irritated about.
My name is Starshadow. (yes, I changed it legally some time back). I
introduce myself as Starshadow. I get people who then call me "Star". Why in
heavens name?? If I wanted to be Star I'd say "My name is Star, " wouldn't
you think?

These of course are the same people who address someone who introduces
herself as "Patricia" , Pat or Patty, I suppose.

Less irritating but omnipresent are the ones who ask for my full name,
which (when they are filling out forms) I tell them is "One name, one word,
no last name, Starshadow" only to have them ask "Is that your last name or
your first name?" , to which I graciously but firmly reply "As I said, it is
one name, one word, no last name and yes, this is my real, legal, name."

I'm used to the latter, but the former, the insisting on trying to call me
"Star" thing really irritates me.

Bright Blessings,

Starshadow SP4, KoX, Granny Dyke (remove lovesxenu to reply)

mephi...@netscape.net

unread,
Dec 10, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/10/98
to
In article <74m6j1$8f1$1...@news-2.news.gte.net>, Phoenix wrote:
(snipped)

> But anyone can call me sexy.

The skunk sighs and replies: "Sorry, my heart belongs to gabadab..."

;-D

Mephistoff

Morpheme Addict

unread,
Dec 10, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/10/98
to

Lee S. Billings wrote

>
>I'll take "Ma'am" any day over "Honey" or "Sweetie"; I've been known to
>pointedly *say*, "Don't call me that, I don't know you from a hole in
>the ground," when addressed by the latter.
>
>I know, objecting to misplaced endearments makes me a bitch... whoopee
>shit.
>
Guess I'm one too, then. I hate being called sweetie or honey by strangers.
I usually reply "are you talking to me, SWEETIE?" That usually does the
trick! Also, Mrs.. West is my mother-in-law. She's a teacher so she's
always called that. I look around surprised if people say that, thinking
she's behind me. And if a stranger calls me by my first name, I ask for
his/hers and use it ten times in the next few sentences.

However, Ma'am, I like. Don't know why. Weird.
--
The Broad Majestic Shannon
Morpheme Addict
----------------------------------------------------------------
"All generalizations are false." (unknown)


Jimmy M. Pierce

unread,
Dec 10, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/10/98
to
GABRIEL MEDINA (CHU...@webtv.net) wrote:
: Droewyn is bearing false witness!

: Poor gabadab never posted in alt.austin.politics!

: gabadab is right in saying the Droewyn is an impugner!

I think you need a couple of aspirin. You are giving yourself a headache.

Droewyn

unread,
Dec 10, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/10/98
to

GABRIEL MEDINA wrote:

> Droewyn is bearing false witness!
>
> Poor gabadab never posted in alt.austin.politics!
>
> gabadab is right in saying the Droewyn is an impugner!

My apologies then; it was one by nos...@nospam.net, and I wasn't sure.
The others I am 99.9% certain on, however.

Droewyn, who is not always right

Susan Cohen

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Dec 10, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/10/98
to

Susan Cohen

unread,
Dec 10, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/10/98
to

Pat Kight wrote:

> "I have to admit I kind of like it. Probably because every one of them,
> so far, has managed to pronounce my last name correctly on the first try
> -- which, in my experience, is a rarity!"

How can you mispronounce it??? It's like "kite", right? (no pun intended...)

Susan. mystified & curious....


Susan Cohen

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Dec 10, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/10/98
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jhe...@my-dejanews.com wrote:

> Where/when I grew up, it was common practice to address total
> strangers as 'honey', 'sugah', 'dee-ah', and the like.

I'm sure if I grew up where it was common, & knew it wasn't a mark
of condscension, I would ignore, or even welcome it.

Susan


Susan Cohen

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Dec 10, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/10/98
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Kate wrote:

> "Me, I'd rather be called "Miss" than "Ma'am" any day of the week. Having moved
> to the South last year, I've gotten used to it some, but it makes me feel *old.*
> Depending on my mood, I will sometimes smile gently and say, "Do I look old
> enough to be your momma? I know you're just being polite, but "Miss," please, or
> you can call me Kate."

I wish to not so much disgree with you as simply air an opposing view.
I like "ma'am," as it is, indeed, marital non specific. I call every female
customer ma'am - and this included the pre-ops (I worked at G-Street,
and there were a few spectacular not-yet-women who came to shop.
I made sure I waited on them if possible, because some of the more,
shall we say, innocent sales personnel seemed unable to stop staring...
But I digress.).

I also *hate* being addressed by my first name by people who don't
know me - especialy when I know they're doing it out of condescension.

Susan

Susan Cohen

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Dec 10, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/10/98
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Droewyn wrote:

> news wrote:
>
> > Blame the public schools. Respect and dignity are no longer taught
> > in those instituitions.
> >

> > I attended a parochial school. My manners are unreproachable.
>
> Your manners. Well, let's take a look at your manners, shall we? In
> rec.food.cooking, you asked if they knew how to prepare cats. In
> misc.fitness.weights you said that beef tongue is healthy and fat people
> should eat it. And who could forget in alt.austin.politics, where you gave
> a four-post dissertation on "Facts and Statistics About Fags." Certainly,
> your manners are ... something.

I beg to differ with you, milady: his manners are...nothing.

Susan


Susan Cohen

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Dec 10, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/10/98
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news wrote:

> Blame the public schools. Respect and dignity are no longer taught
> in those instituitions.

They're not supposed to be taught *there*, Gabe: they're supposed to
be taught at *home.*

> I attended a parochial school. My manners are unreproachable.

And I attended a public school. But - just as a "for instance" - you don't
see me going around trolling newsgroups with a staggering array of sock-
puppets - or even falling for spelling flame-baits.

Susan


Susan Cohen

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Dec 10, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/10/98
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Droewyn wrote:

> GABRIEL MEDINA wrote:
>
> > Droewyn is bearing false witness!
> >
> > Poor gabadab never posted in alt.austin.politics!
> >
> > gabadab is right in saying the Droewyn is an impugner!
>
> My apologies then; it was one by nos...@nospam.net,

(Hey, Droewyn - the phrase "sock puppet" mean anything to you?)

:-)

Susan

> and I wasn't sure.
> The others I am 99.9% certain on, however.
>
> Droewyn, who is not always right

Unless she is.


Lee S. Billings

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Dec 10, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/10/98
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In article <74mrr3$rov$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, jhe...@my-dejanews.com
says...
>
>In article <74mgro$6g5$6...@camel0.mindspring.com>,

> stard...@mindspring.com (Lee S. Billings) wrote:
>>
>> I'll take "Ma'am" any day over "Honey" or "Sweetie"; I've been known
to
>> pointedly *say*, "Don't call me that, I don't know you from a hole
>> in the ground," when addressed by the latter.
>>
>> I know, objecting to misplaced endearments makes me a bitch...
>> whoopee shit.
>>
>> Celine
>
>You'd spend life on a slow burn if you lived or traveled in some areas
of the
>South. Where/when I grew up, it was common practice to address total

>strangers as 'honey', 'sugah', 'dee-ah', and the like.

Don't I know it! This is something I *never* encountered until I moved
down here. Normally it doesn't bother me enough to say anything about
it, but if I'm already in a bad mood (or if it comes from someone who
gives me the willies), it can be a trigger.

>Does that make you a bitch? Not unless you can swivel your ears.

<giggle> Nope, never learned to do that... seriously, though, you'd be
amazed at the people who think there's something wrong with *me* for
objecting to it.

Droewyn

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Dec 10, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/10/98
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Susan Cohen wrote:

>
> > > gabadab is right in saying the Droewyn is an impugner!
> >
> > My apologies then; it was one by nos...@nospam.net,
>
> (Hey, Droewyn - the phrase "sock puppet" mean anything to you?)

Oh, I know that, but Dejanews showed over 7000 posts credited to
nos...@nospam.net--it's a popular address. I picked a post that
"sounded" like one of Gabe's, and I guessed wrong. *shrug* So sue me;
I could give a shit about the dear troll's good opinion. One of the two
he *didn't* object to was posted as nonsequitur though....

Droewyn


Jimmy M. Pierce

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Dec 10, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/10/98
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Susan Cohen wrote:
: HEY - I get the same feeling about stuff sent to me like I'm jsut Mrs. Gary!

A few years ago I got a few items addressed to my wife, I'm not married.

Droewyn

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Dec 10, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/10/98
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Starshadow wrote:

> I just had to add to this thread to add my own thing I'm irritated about.
> My name is Starshadow. (yes, I changed it legally some time back). I
> introduce myself as Starshadow. I get people who then call me "Star". Why in
> heavens name?? If I wanted to be Star I'd say "My name is Star, " wouldn't
> you think?
>
> These of course are the same people who address someone who introduces
> herself as "Patricia" , Pat or Patty, I suppose.
>
> Less irritating but omnipresent are the ones who ask for my full name,
> which (when they are filling out forms) I tell them is "One name, one word,
> no last name, Starshadow" only to have them ask "Is that your last name or
> your first name?" , to which I graciously but firmly reply "As I said, it is
> one name, one word, no last name and yes, this is my real, legal, name."
>
> I'm used to the latter, but the former, the insisting on trying to call me
> "Star" thing really irritates me.

I have a friend who has the latter problem. He changed his name legally to
Phoenix, and is constantly plagued by people who argue with him. And worse yet,
when he does things like rent hotel rooms, they insist that for the computer
they must have both a first and last name. So whereever officialness is
concerned, he goes around by the first name Mr. It cheeses him off to no end.

Droewyn

ARCmage

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Dec 10, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/10/98
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>> Less irritating but omnipresent are the ones who ask for my full name,
>> which (when they are filling out forms) I tell them is "One name, one word,
>> no last name, Starshadow" only to have them ask "Is that your last name or
>> your first name?" , to which I graciously but firmly reply "As I said, it is
>> one name, one word, no last name and yes, this is my real, legal, name."

>I have a friend who has the latter problem. He changed his name legally to


>Phoenix, and is constantly plagued by people who argue with him. And worse
yet,
>when he does things like rent hotel rooms, they insist that for the computer
>they must have both a first and last name. So whereever officialness is
>concerned, he goes around by the first name Mr. It cheeses him off to no end.

The ARCmage is confused. How can someone who deliberately sets things up in
such as way as to guarantee that they will have trouble be upset when they have
trouble with it?

Every single official form in the US has the built in assumption that people
have two or more names. If you choose not to have two names, fine, buy how can
you justify being upset when this causes confusion? You had to know it would.
You did that to yourself on purpose.

ARCsined,
The ARCmage


Jake Katz & Associates

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Dec 10, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/10/98
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In article <1027-366...@newsd-122.bryant.webtv.net>, GABRIEL
MEDINA says...

> Poor gabadab never posted in alt.austin.politics!

But I bet "he" had to check Deja News to make sure, didn't "he"???



> gabadab is right in saying the Droewyn is an impugner!

It's the truth! I might even have seen her ugn an imp myself. She's
quite knowledgeable at playing NetHack.

Y'know, if you fellows bothered to try to sound different -- to post
in even slightly different styles or something -- then I might dignify
you with the title of "personas." But you don't even bother with that,
do you?

Sorry, gabadabmedinasequitur. I try to _entertain_ using my various
personas. But all you're doing is making yourself (your*selves*, I
mean) look sillier and sillier.

Quite an amusing spectacle for those with strong stomachs, though it
does get a little pathetic now and then.

It's even starting to bore my friend the skunk, whose capacity for
playing with the occasional helpless victim's head is legendary!

You're just Too Easy.

Jake Katz
who IS really the same as Mephistoff -- ohh-kay?

Droewyn

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Dec 10, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/10/98
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Jake Katz & Associates wrote:

> > gabadab is right in saying the Droewyn is an impugner!
>
> It's the truth! I might even have seen her ugn an imp myself. She's
> quite knowledgeable at playing NetHack.

Oh yes, I'm very good at ugning imps. Imps are easy! It's those $%$%
mind flayers I hate. And eels. My best character was drowned by an eel
on level 24. Twice! ("oLS) I'd never gotten that far without cheating
before!! *pout*

Droewyn, master impugner

Allan Friedman

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Dec 10, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/10/98
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Susan Cohen wrote:

> I also *hate* being addressed by my first name by people who don't
> know me - especialy when I know they're doing it out of condescension.
>
> Susan

How about those who, upon being told your first name, immediately adopt the
familiarity of a shortened version (as in, hi Sue, nice to meet you)?
-Keez (who immediately deducts points from people who, upon introduction, call him
"Al")


Matthew T. Russotto

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Dec 10, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/10/98
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In article <366FE9A2...@istar.ca>,

I dunno, but I gave up that battle a long time ago and now just
introduce myself as "Matt", though I continue to use exclusively
"Matthew" in print and on the net.
--
Matthew T. Russotto russ...@pond.com
"Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in pursuit
of justice is no virtue."

Austin Ziegler

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Dec 10, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/10/98
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Susan Cohen

: Pat Kight wrote:
: > "I have to admit I kind of like it. Probably because every one of them,
: > so far, has managed to pronounce my last name correctly on the first try
: > -- which, in my experience, is a rarity!"
: How can you mispronounce it??? It's like "kite", right? (no pun
: intended...)

You silly English k-niggit.

-f
--
austin ziegler * fanto...@yahoo.com * Ni bhionn an rath
live, from .ca * aus...@netscape.net * ach mar a mbionn
* azie...@solect.com * an smacht
There is no luck *----------------------* without discipline

Jake Katz & Associates

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Dec 10, 1998, 3:00:00 AM12/10/98