Minor rant: Names
Jenna Lionors
They're trained to thank people by their last names if you have a store
card. Which is fine but why, why, why does every damn one of them call
me 'Miss'. I'm wearing a wedding ring. And shouldn't they be trained to
use 'Ms' anyway? You can't go as wrong with that. What is it? Do I look
under 18 or something? Sheesh. I will point out that my wedding ring is
engraved white gold and /really/ stands out under those lights. I don't
like being called 'Mrs', I sign myself 'Ms', but 'Miss' is much worse.
And it must be something about how I look, 'cause they all do it...
On a related note, I'm tempted to get the next thing addressed to 'Mrs
Gregory Pearson' returned to sender. I am tired of assorted relatives
and in-laws calling me that. Not only do I have my own first name, thank
you very much, but my surname is not Pearson. Both I and my husband are
feminists. I've retained my maiden name. But so far, other than from my
parents, I only have /one/ correctly addressed envelope from any member
of my family. Ironically enough, it's from the Redneck Relatives From
Hell. I don't expect it from Greg's grandmother, who still /signs/
herself 'Mrs Lester Pearson' even though Lester Pearson is /dead/. Okay,
maybe I shouldn't be so harsh on her, but if I get one more sickly
sweet, born again letter from her, with 'God be with you' or something
related at least once a paragraph, I'll...start just sending the things
back *sigh*. Oh, these letters are typed circulars sent to every
relative...alright, I'll shut up now. You don't need to respond, I just
had to get the minor irritants off my chest. Mick, got any apple cider?
I have an incredible craving for the stuff.
--
And, they ask me, why is there suffering in the world, not understanding
that it is
through suffering that we cease to be disparate individuals tossed on
the ocean of
life, and become brothers and sisters joined in a bond of love...
<<Any and all Unsolicited Commercial Email sent to this address will be
automatically deleted unread>>
Droewyn
Jenna Lionors wrote:
> Eurgh. I am going to...yell at...the checkers at the local store.
> They're trained to thank people by their last names if you have a store
> card. Which is fine but why, why, why does every damn one of them call
> me 'Miss'. I'm wearing a wedding ring. And shouldn't they be trained to
> use 'Ms' anyway? You can't go as wrong with that. What is it? Do I look
> under 18 or something? Sheesh. I will point out that my wedding ring is
> engraved white gold and /really/ stands out under those lights. I don't
> like being called 'Mrs', I sign myself 'Ms', but 'Miss' is much worse.
> And it must be something about how I look, 'cause they all do it...
Droewyn starts jumping up and down wildly, pointing to the above text. "And
*this* is why all cashiers *despise* having to address the customers by name
if they pay with a check or credit. Because while 'Mr.' is pretty much
universally accepted, a hapless checkout ringer has absolutely no way of
knowing if a female honorific will be accepted or trigger a screaming fit.
Besides, the line of bull they give you about customers liking to hear a
familiar address is just that--bull. We get more weird do-I-know-you looks
than friendly-type smiles--and I know *I* hate it when customers call me by
name. Especially the dirty-old-men types--NO COMMENTS FROM THE PEANUT
GALLERY!!! But then, a first name address is better than 'Ma'am' any day.
Do I look like a 'Ma'am' to you folks?"
Droewyn, ranting again
--
--'--,--<@ --'--,--<@ --'--,--<@ _\@/_ @>--,--'-- @>--,--'-- @>--,--'--
Sydney Allison Ashcraft |"Uncontrolled sexuality is always the
Lavender GoodWench and |inadequate hostess' excuse for serving second
Unsavory Malcontent |rate food." ~~Esther Friesner, _Demon Blues_
--'--,--<@ --'--,--<@ --'--,--<@ _\@/_ @>--,--'-- @>--,--'-- @>--,--'--
news
Jenna Lionors wrote in message <366E1D4C...@clark.net>...
>Eurgh. I am going to...yell at...the checkers at the local store.
>They're trained to thank people by their last names if you have a store
>card. Which is fine but why, why, why does every damn one of them call
>me 'Miss'. I'm wearing a wedding ring. And shouldn't they be trained to
>use 'Ms' anyway? You can't go as wrong with that. What is it? Do I look
>under 18 or something?
Blame the public schools. Respect and dignity are no longer taught
in those instituitions.
I attended a parochial school. My manners are unreproachable.
jhe...@my-dejanews.com
Droewyn <kes...@alagad.com> wrote:
>
>
> Jenna Lionors wrote:
>
> > Eurgh. I am going to...yell at...the checkers at the local store.
> > They're trained to thank people by their last names if you have a store
> > card. Which is fine but why, why, why does every damn one of them call
> > me 'Miss'. I'm wearing a wedding ring. And shouldn't they be trained to
> > use 'Ms' anyway? You can't go as wrong with that. What is it? Do I look
> > engraved white gold and /really/ stands out under those lights. I don't
> > like being called 'Mrs', I sign myself 'Ms', but 'Miss' is much worse.
> > And it must be something about how I look, 'cause they all do it...
>
> Droewyn starts jumping up and down wildly, pointing to the above text. "And
> *this* is why all cashiers *despise* having to address the customers by name
> if they pay with a check or credit. Because while 'Mr.' is pretty much
> universally accepted, a hapless checkout ringer has absolutely no way of
> knowing if a female honorific will be accepted or trigger a screaming fit.
> Besides, the line of bull they give you about customers liking to hear a
> familiar address is just that--bull. We get more weird do-I-know-you looks
> than friendly-type smiles--and I know *I* hate it when customers call me by
> name. Especially the dirty-old-men types--NO COMMENTS FROM THE PEANUT
> GALLERY!!! But then, a first name address is better than 'Ma'am' any day.
> Do I look like a 'Ma'am' to you folks?"
>
> Droewyn, ranting again
>
> --
> --'--,--<@ --'--,--<@ --'--,--<@ _\@/_ @>--,--'-- @>--,--'-- @>--,--'--
> Sydney Allison Ashcraft |"Uncontrolled sexuality is always the
> Lavender GoodWench and |inadequate hostess' excuse for serving second
> Unsavory Malcontent |rate food." ~~Esther Friesner, _Demon Blues_
> --'--,--<@ --'--,--<@ --'--,--<@ _\@/_ @>--,--'-- @>--,--'-- @>--,--'--
>
>
Yes, you look like a Ma'am from here. All the proper curves.
Note to your employers: my aged mother hates being addressed by name by
people she's never met. Has been known to avoid stores like yours just
because of that. She's old enough (90) to have been raised under formal
rules of etiquette (whereas I have to look the word up to spell it
correctly). _Her_ you should refer to as 'Ma'am.'
--
Jim
Cleanly Old Man
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Margaret Whittleton
(Large snip)
I don't expect it from Greg's grandmother, who still /signs/
> herself 'Mrs Lester Pearson' even though Lester Pearson is /dead/.
Jenna:
Yikes, you're "Mike" Pearson's grand-daughter-in-law?
Actually, I presume this is a different Lester Pearson not the Nobel Peace
Prize winning, former Canadian Prime Minister.<G> I'm not sure if Mrs
Pearson is even still alive.
Marg
jhe...@my-dejanews.com
> >They're trained to thank people by their last names if you have a store
> >card. Which is fine but why, why, why does every damn one of them call
> >me 'Miss'. I'm wearing a wedding ring. And shouldn't they be trained to
> >use 'Ms' anyway? You can't go as wrong with that. What is it? Do I look
> >under 18 or something?
>
> in those instituitions.
>
> I attended a parochial school. My manners are unreproachable.
>
>
General usage is 'irreproachable.' Hi, Gabe.
Buy you a drink?
--
Jim
"Sentence first -- verdict afterwards." The Red Queen
Austin Ziegler
: Marg
Are any other folks thinking of Marg Delahunte when you sign your posts
like this?
-f, "Marg, warrior princess!"
--
austin ziegler * fanto...@yahoo.com * Ni bhionn an rath
live, from .ca * aus...@netscape.net * ach mar a mbionn
* azie...@solect.com * an smacht
There is no luck *----------------------* without discipline
WareWolf
Jenna Lionors wrote in message <366E1D4C...@clark.net>...
>Eurgh. I am going to...yell at...the checkers at the local store.
>They're trained to thank people by their last names if you have a store
>card. Which is fine but why, why, why does every damn one of them call
>me 'Miss'. I'm wearing a wedding ring. And shouldn't they be trained to
>use 'Ms' anyway? You can't go as wrong with that.
LOL!
This is one of the reasons I'm proud of ebing a Southerner. We've been
slurring the Miss and Mrs. together to form "Miz" as long as anyone can
remember, Miz Lionors.
And you thought it was just laziness.
Dusty
Bart Hammerly
> *this* is why all cashiers *despise* having to address the customers by name
> if they pay with a check or credit. Because while 'Mr.' is pretty much
> universally accepted, a hapless checkout ringer has absolutely no way of
> knowing if a female honorific will be accepted or trigger a screaming fit.
> Besides, the line of bull they give you about customers liking to hear a
> familiar address is just that--bull. We get more weird do-I-know-you looks
> than friendly-type smiles--and I know *I* hate it when customers call me by
> name. Especially the dirty-old-men types--NO COMMENTS FROM THE PEANUT
> GALLERY!!! But then, a first name address is better than 'Ma'am' any day.
> Do I look like a 'Ma'am' to you folks?"
No, you look like a courier, but that's just my font.
I detest being called, "sir".
I hate being called Mr. Hammerly. That's my father.
I hate being called Bartholomew. Only 1 in 10 get it right.
But anyone can call me sexy.
--
Phoenix
"Time is the fire in which we burn."
IM barth70
The Trinker
Jenna Lionors wrote:
>
> Eurgh. I am going to...yell at...the checkers at the local store.
> They're trained to thank people by their last names if you have a store
> card. Which is fine but why, why, why does every damn one of them call
> me 'Miss'. I'm wearing a wedding ring. And shouldn't they be trained to
> use 'Ms' anyway? You can't go as wrong with that. What is it? Do I look
> under 18 or something? Sheesh. I will point out that my wedding ring is
> engraved white gold and /really/ stands out under those lights. I don't
> like being called 'Mrs', I sign myself 'Ms', but 'Miss' is much worse.
> And it must be something about how I look, 'cause they all do it...
Better than that oh so friendly by your first name how are you, from
your store card. CreepyChecker(tm) at my local supermarket does that,
and it makes me want to smack him. He once pawed at my mail, too.
It's enough to make me want to carry an electric cattleprod.
Maybe it's the age thing, or where you live. Ms is fighting words,
I'm told, in some parts of the woods. In those places I've lived
in California, Ms is obligatory.
> On a related note, I'm tempted to get the next thing addressed to 'Mrs
> Gregory Pearson' returned to sender. I am tired of assorted relatives
> and in-laws calling me that. Not only do I have my own first name, thank
>[snip]
Poor Jenna. Very traditional, are they? Sigh. Although, I'm
wondering,
are they sending to "Mr & Mrs." ? Have you tried sending out another
general "to everyone" letter, letting them know? (It probably won't
work. :P ) I've gotten used to answering to all sorts of things which
aren't my name. (grumble). One client's entire office (with the
exception of our contact) calls me by a name I really hate, that I
haven't used in years. I can't break them of it. (Damn that French
list list of approved names!)
the trinker
--
spam filtered. To send e-mail remove the spamtrap.
Kate
>Jenna Lionors wrote:
>
>> Eurgh. I am going to...yell at...the checkers at the local store.
>> They're trained to thank people by their last names if you have a store
>> card. Which is fine but why, why, why does every damn one of them call
>> me 'Miss'. I'm wearing a wedding ring. And shouldn't they be trained to
>> use 'Ms' anyway? You can't go as wrong with that. What is it? Do I look
>> under 18 or something? Sheesh. I will point out that my wedding ring is
>> engraved white gold and /really/ stands out under those lights. I don't
>> like being called 'Mrs', I sign myself 'Ms', but 'Miss' is much worse.
>> And it must be something about how I look, 'cause they all do it...
>
>*this* is why all cashiers *despise* having to address the customers by name
>if they pay with a check or credit. Because while 'Mr.' is pretty much
>universally accepted, a hapless checkout ringer has absolutely no way of
>knowing if a female honorific will be accepted or trigger a screaming fit.
>Besides, the line of bull they give you about customers liking to hear a
>familiar address is just that--bull. We get more weird do-I-know-you looks
>than friendly-type smiles--and I know *I* hate it when customers call me by
>name. Especially the dirty-old-men types--NO COMMENTS FROM THE PEANUT
>GALLERY!!! But then, a first name address is better than 'Ma'am' any day.
>Do I look like a 'Ma'am' to you folks?"
>
The laptop model goodwench laughs. "When I was working in retail, I used "Ms
{whatever} as a default until told otherwise by the customer. Or I'd avoid the
honorifics. "Excuse me, please," instead of "excuse me ma'am," or "Thank you
very much, you have a good evening," instead of "Thank you, ma'am. Have a nice
night."
"Me, I'd rather be called "Miss" than "Ma'am" any day of the week. Having moved
to the South last year, I've gotten used to it some, but it makes me feel *old.*
Depending on my mood, I will sometimes smile gently and say, "Do I look old
enough to be your momma? I know you're just being polite, but "Miss," please, or
you can call me Kate."
Kate
Weather on IRC
remove spamblock to reply
It was a blonde. A blonde to make a bishop kick a hole in a stained-glass
window.--Raymond Chandler
New featured pick of the month at Stormy Weather Books--in association with
amazon.com-- http://www.angelfire.com/tn/smartblonde/bibliophile.html
Margaret Whittleton
> Margaret Whittleton (mwhi...@gbrownc.on.ca) wrote:
> : Marg
>
> Are any other folks thinking of Marg Delahunte when you sign your posts
> like this?
>
> -f, "Marg, warrior princess!"
> --
Hey, I think you've just given me my new signature line! (I'm even built
along Marg Delahunte's lines)<G>
May I buy you a BOYC?
Marg,
cat person, Vanilla Goodwench, biker AND warrior princess!!
p & e
cas caswell
<Jenna Lionors checker complaint and the start of Droweyn's rant
snipped for brevity >
> Besides, the line of bull they give you about customers liking to hear
>a familiar address is just that--bull. We get more weird do-I-know-you
Amen! then again my call name is not on my id anywhere, and it takes my
mom's voice to make me respond to my given name in a crowd. So for me
it's really weird.
<more snippage>
> GALLERY!!! But then, a first name address is better than 'Ma'am' any
> day. Do I look like a 'Ma'am' to you folks?"
well since you asked... to me you do. However, that's because I don't
know you. We haven't been introduced and all that. Would I call you
Ma'am here? no. you've requested that that term not be used quite
clearly <grin>.
if i bumped into you in public, yup. I'd call you Ma'am 'cause you're
identifiably female and I don't know you.
This is all stuff that got programmed when I was a youngster. Sir
and Ma'am. Mr, Miss, Misses until asked otherwise. I'd dropped most of
it. But now that I have a 2 year old at home it's come back. I guess
I'm modeling polite behavior for her. The one change is I alway use
Ms unless I know for sure the lady in question prefers one of the older
terms. It's interesting to see the little time bombs mom and dad set.
I have to admit I get some strange looks from people younger than I am
when I call them Sir or Ma'am. But it's rather deeply ingrained right
now. I may have to rethink the behavior if I see it bugs more people.
At anyrate that's why this member of the great clueless masses often
uses Ma'am. Hope you understand it's not meant to be offensive.
I'd offer you some english ... lavendar. But it's already harvested and
stuck in pillows for holiday gifts this year.
BOYC? Cas slides a pair of suzy-bs across the bar to Mike. Coffee
please, neat and hot.
--
Cas Caswell (ca...@cup.hp.com) BTW I said it, not my company.
Bart Hammerly
> In article <366e6...@news.busprod.com>,
> "news" <gab...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > Jenna Lionors wrote in message <366E1D4C...@clark.net>...
> > >Eurgh. I am going to...yell at...the checkers at the local store.
> > >They're trained to thank people by their last names if you have a store
> > >card. Which is fine but why, why, why does every damn one of them call
> > >me 'Miss'. I'm wearing a wedding ring. And shouldn't they be trained to
> > >use 'Ms' anyway? You can't go as wrong with that. What is it? Do I look
> > >under 18 or something?
> >
> > Blame the public schools. Respect and dignity are no longer taught
> > in those instituitions.
> >
> > I attended a parochial school. My manners are unreproachable.
> >
> >
>
> General usage is 'irreproachable.' Hi, Gabe.
> Buy you a drink?
...and he's wrong. I consider his manners to be non-existent, IMO.
Lee S. Billings
>
>
>
>Jenna Lionors wrote:
>
>> Eurgh. I am going to...yell at...the checkers at the local store.
>> They're trained to thank people by their last names if you have a
store
>> card. Which is fine but why, why, why does every damn one of them
call
>> me 'Miss'. I'm wearing a wedding ring. And shouldn't they be trained
to
>> use 'Ms' anyway? You can't go as wrong with that. What is it? Do I
look
is
>> engraved white gold and /really/ stands out under those lights. I
don't
>> like being called 'Mrs', I sign myself 'Ms', but 'Miss' is much
worse.
>> And it must be something about how I look, 'cause they all do it...
>
>Droewyn starts jumping up and down wildly, pointing to the above text.
"And
>*this* is why all cashiers *despise* having to address the customers
by name
>if they pay with a check or credit. Because while 'Mr.' is pretty
much
>universally accepted, a hapless checkout ringer has absolutely no way
of
>knowing if a female honorific will be accepted or trigger a screaming
fit.
That's very true -- and *both* sides of that question will get
extremely offended if addressed by what they consider the "wrong"
title. So you can't win.
>Besides, the line of bull they give you about customers liking to hear
a
>familiar address is just that--bull. We get more weird do-I-know-you
looks
>than friendly-type smiles.
Sing it, sister! There are a couple of restaurants around here which I
do not patronize because they insist on calling out your *first* name
when your order is ready, and that just bugs me. Being addressed by my
last name is tolerable, but is it really necessary? As you point out,
we're complete strangers. Now, it might be different with a small shop
where I'm a regular customer, but not in a huge retail store.
>But then, a first name address is better than 'Ma'am' any day.
>Do I look like a 'Ma'am' to you folks?"
I'll take "Ma'am" any day over "Honey" or "Sweetie"; I've been known to
pointedly *say*, "Don't call me that, I don't know you from a hole in
the ground," when addressed by the latter.
I know, objecting to misplaced endearments makes me a bitch... whoopee
shit.
Celine
--
"Art comes from the heart, but the heart is instructed by the culture."
-- Janet Kagan, _HellSpark_
Lee S. Billings
>>They're trained to thank people by their last names if you have a
store
>>card. Which is fine but why, why, why does every damn one of them
call
>>me 'Miss'. I'm wearing a wedding ring. And shouldn't they be trained
to
>>use 'Ms' anyway? You can't go as wrong with that. What is it? Do I
look
>>under 18 or something?
>
>in those instituitions.
>
>I attended a parochial school. My manners are unreproachable.
Hi, Gabe! I see you found another identity! Maybe you'll keep this one
for a while...
Don't blame the schools; it's the *parents'* business to teach things
like manners. Schools have been expected to do a lot of the things
parents aren't doing any more, but that's not the way things are
supposed to work.
Pat Kight
>
> Note to your employers: my aged mother hates being addressed by name by
> people she's never met. Has been known to avoid stores like yours just
> because of that. She's old enough (90) to have been raised under formal
> rules of etiquette (whereas I have to look the word up to spell it
> correctly). _Her_ you should refer to as 'Ma'am.'
The Spinster down in the Lounge listens to Jenna's rant and the
responses.
"Huh. Interesting.
"My local Safeway only started calling customers by name recently. And I
think they had some sort of sensitivity training, 'cause all the
checkers seem to uniformly slur the female honorific to something akin
to `muhssss,' which could reasonably be interpreted as Miss, Mrs. or
Ms., depending on one's preference.
"I have to admit I kind of like it. Probably because every one of them,
so far, has managed to pronounce my last name correctly on the first try
-- which, in my experience, is a rarity!"
--Jezebel
kig...@peak.org
The Trinker
Schools used to teach "civics", didn't they? Wasn't manners,
but it was about civic responsibility and duty, or so I'm told.
I think there's a place in the curriculum for that. It's a crying
shame that most HS students (and yes, I know we all know counter-
examples) don't know how the US Constitution works, or how you
become a citizen, or what taxes pay for, etc. (If you're not
an American, please either substitute the appropriate words, or
smile smugly and ignore. :)
Pat Kight
>
> Jenna Lionors wrote in message <366E1D4C...@clark.net>...
> >Eurgh. I am going to...yell at...the checkers at the local store.
> >They're trained to thank people by their last names if you have a store
> >card. Which is fine but why, why, why does every damn one of them call
> >me 'Miss'. I'm wearing a wedding ring. And shouldn't they be trained to
> >use 'Ms' anyway? You can't go as wrong with that. What is it? Do I look
> >under 18 or something?
>
> Blame the public schools. Respect and dignity are no longer taught
> in those instituitions.
"Nonsense," says Jezebel. "Blame, if you must blame anything, the fact
that the American public is presently of a divided opinion on the
question of female honorifics. A significant number of American women
prefer `Ms.' and will get pissed off if referred to otherwise. A
probably equally significant number of American women prefer `Mrs.' and
will get pissed off if you call them `Ms.' I don't know *anyone* who's
wild about `Miss,' except possibly in parts of the South."
>
> I attended a parochial school. My manners are unreproachable.
Noting who it is that's making this statement, Jezebel is overcome with
a fit of choking giggles.
--Jez
kig...@peak.org
Kerry J. Renaissance
>
>Jenna Lionors wrote in message <366E1D4C...@clark.net>...
>>Eurgh. I am going to...yell at...the checkers at the local store.
>>They're trained to thank people by their last names if you have a store
>>card. Which is fine but why, why, why does every damn one of them call
>>me 'Miss'. I'm wearing a wedding ring. And shouldn't they be trained to
>>use 'Ms' anyway? You can't go as wrong with that. What is it? Do I look
>>under 18 or something?
>
>Blame the public schools. Respect and dignity are no longer taught
>in those instituitions.
>
>I attended a parochial school. My manners are unreproachable.
I'm fairly sure that respect and dignity were never the purvue of
_any_ school. And I'm not entirely sure they should be, though I
could wish for schools which don't encourage the pack-of-hungry-wolves
mentality.
It's my impression that respect and dignity are social obligations,
and as such, fall under the parental obligations. Of course, the
parents themselves must know such things before they can teach them to
their offspring.
-- Kerry J. Renaissance
Master Fireweaver
http://www.mills.edu/PEOPLE/ug.pages/
kerryren.public.html/kerryren.homepage.html
"Are people basically good?" - Susan Calvin, "I, Robot"
(Asimov and Ellison, screenplay)
Droewyn
news wrote:
> Blame the public schools. Respect and dignity are no longer taught
> in those instituitions.
>
> I attended a parochial school. My manners are unreproachable.
Your manners. Well, let's take a look at your manners, shall we? In
rec.food.cooking, you asked if they knew how to prepare cats. In
misc.fitness.weights you said that beef tongue is healthy and fat people
should eat it. And who could forget in alt.austin.politics, where you gave
a four-post dissertation on "Facts and Statistics About Fags." Certainly,
your manners are ... something.
Droewyn
jhe...@my-dejanews.com
stard...@mindspring.com (Lee S. Billings) wrote:
>
> I'll take "Ma'am" any day over "Honey" or "Sweetie"; I've been known to
> pointedly *say*, "Don't call me that, I don't know you from a hole in
> the ground," when addressed by the latter.
>
> I know, objecting to misplaced endearments makes me a bitch... whoopee
> shit.
>
> Celine
You'd spend life on a slow burn if you lived or traveled in some areas of the
South. Where/when I grew up, it was common practice to address total
strangers as 'honey', 'sugah', 'dee-ah', and the like. That's the reason I
ticked you off with a post a few months back.
Does that make you a bitch? Not unless you can swivel your ears.
Droewyn
Kate wrote:
> The laptop model goodwench laughs. "When I was working in retail, I used "Ms
> {whatever} as a default until told otherwise by the customer. Or I'd avoid the
> honorifics. "Excuse me, please," instead of "excuse me ma'am," or "Thank you
> very much, you have a good evening," instead of "Thank you, ma'am. Have a nice
> night."
>
Exactly. You can be friendly without having to say the customer's name back to
them. They know who they are. There were a handful of customers I used to deal
with on a regular basis. *Them* I called by their names. We also talked about
their children, and my classes, and the various pros and cons of <insert subject
name here>. Most customers want you to be friendly, but not personal, IMO.
>
> "Me, I'd rather be called "Miss" than "Ma'am" any day of the week. Having moved
> to the South last year, I've gotten used to it some, but it makes me feel *old.*
> Depending on my mood, I will sometimes smile gently and say, "Do I look old
> enough to be your momma? I know you're just being polite, but "Miss," please, or
> you can call me Kate."
I feel the same way. Then again, as Celine said in email, "Ma'am" is loads better
than "honey," "sweety," or "darling." By a perfect stranger, of course; family and
Family are allowed.
Jenna Lionors
> think they had some sort of sensitivity training, 'cause all the
> checkers seem to uniformly slur the female honorific to something akin
> to `muhssss,' which could reasonably be interpreted as Miss, Mrs. or
> Ms., depending on one's preference.
>
> "I have to admit I kind of like it. Probably because every one of them,
> so far, has managed to pronounce my last name correctly on the first try
> -- which, in my experience, is a rarity!"
Well, this is a Safeway, so I guess you have a better one than me. Although I
will admit that they /do/ manage to pronounce my last name right at least
more often than not. Which is nice when you have a name so obscure that you
can reasonably assume that anyone else with it is related to you.
Jenna Lionors
> Yikes, you're "Mike" Pearson's grand-daughter-in-law?
>
> Actually, I presume this is a different Lester Pearson not the Nobel Peace
> Prize winning, former Canadian Prime Minister.<G> I'm not sure if Mrs
> Pearson is even still alive.
>
> Marg
*laugh* No. That's a /completely/ new one. But in addition to that, my
father-in-law has the same name as a rather noted stock car driver of the
past. I guess I'm glad I have a name that /nobody/ is likely to duplicate. In
our phone book, there is /one/ other instance of my last name...
Droewyn
cas caswell wrote:
> Droewyn wrote:
>
> > GALLERY!!! But then, a first name address is better than 'Ma'am' any
> > day. Do I look like a 'Ma'am' to you folks?"
>
> well since you asked... to me you do. However, that's because I don't
> know you. We haven't been introduced and all that. Would I call you
> Ma'am here? no. you've requested that that term not be used quite
> clearly <grin>.
>
> if i bumped into you in public, yup. I'd call you Ma'am 'cause you're
> identifiably female and I don't know you.
>
Hmm... it's interesting. Most male responses in here have been along the
lines of "why not, it's an address of female respect?", while most female
responses are closer to my reaction of "Ma'am? Do I look *old*??" Any
thoughts on this?
Droewyn
>
> This is all stuff that got programmed when I was a youngster. Sir
> and Ma'am. Mr, Miss, Misses until asked otherwise. I'd dropped most of
> it. But now that I have a 2 year old at home it's come back. I guess
> I'm modeling polite behavior for her. The one change is I alway use
> Ms unless I know for sure the lady in question prefers one of the older
> terms. It's interesting to see the little time bombs mom and dad set.
>
> I have to admit I get some strange looks from people younger than I am
> when I call them Sir or Ma'am. But it's rather deeply ingrained right
> now. I may have to rethink the behavior if I see it bugs more people.
>
> At anyrate that's why this member of the great clueless masses often
> uses Ma'am. Hope you understand it's not meant to be offensive.
>
> I'd offer you some english ... lavendar. But it's already harvested and
> stuck in pillows for holiday gifts this year.
>
> BOYC? Cas slides a pair of suzy-bs across the bar to Mike. Coffee
> please, neat and hot.
>
> --
> Cas Caswell (ca...@cup.hp.com) BTW I said it, not my company.
--
Droewyn
cas caswell wrote:
> I'd offer you some english ... lavendar. But it's already harvested and
> stuck in pillows for holiday gifts this year.
>
I'll take a pillow then, if you like. I love lavender!
>
> BOYC? Cas slides a pair of suzy-bs across the bar to Mike. Coffee
> please, neat and hot.
>
Thanks, a caramel cider please.
Droewyn
Liana Olear
: This is all stuff that got programmed when I was a youngster. Sir
: and Ma'am. Mr, Miss, Misses until asked otherwise. I'd dropped most of
: it. But now that I have a 2 year old at home it's come back. I guess
: I'm modeling polite behavior for her. The one change is I alway use
: Ms unless I know for sure the lady in question prefers one of the older
: terms. It's interesting to see the little time bombs mom and dad set.
I'll take Miss, but I prefer Ms. Ma'am makes me feel old. And to me,
the sound combination involved sounds silly and rather annoying. Of
course, as luck would have it, I happen to live in a town with a Naval
Academy, and if I ever need to talk to a random midshipman (ask for
directions, for instance), they call me Ma'am.
Given my options I'd rather not be addressed by strangers at all. My name
from a random stranger sounds a touch weird (although better then
alternatives). If it's necessary to get my attention, "Ma'am" would not
do it. "Excuse me" would probably do a better job. And if my attention
is already there, just talk to me, and get to the point. And "Have a nice
day" is in my opinion just as good as "Have a nice day [insert address]"
But that's just me...
Liana
Droewyn
Lee S. Billings wrote:
> >But then, a first name address is better than 'Ma'am' any day.
> >Do I look like a 'Ma'am' to you folks?"
>
> I'll take "Ma'am" any day over "Honey" or "Sweetie"; I've been known to
> pointedly *say*, "Don't call me that, I don't know you from a hole in
> the ground," when addressed by the latter.
>
> I know, objecting to misplaced endearments makes me a bitch... whoopee
> shit.
>
Okay, I'll give you that one. Endearments from complete strangers make me
*extremely* uncomfortable.
Austin Ziegler
: > > I attended a parochial school. My manners are unreproachable.
: > General usage is 'irreproachable.' Hi, Gabe.
: ...and he's wrong. I consider his manners to be non-existent, IMO.
Wouldn't that be "unapproachable", then?
-f
Lee S. Billings
k...@vincent-tanaka.spamtrap.com says...
>> >Blame the public schools. Respect and dignity are no longer
>> >taught in those instituitions.
>> >
>> >I attended a parochial school. My manners are unreproachable.
>>
>> Don't blame the schools; it's the *parents'* business to teach
things
>> like manners. Schools have been expected to do a lot of the things
>> parents aren't doing any more, but that's not the way things are
>> supposed to work.
>>
>> Celine
>
>Schools used to teach "civics", didn't they? Wasn't manners,
>but it was about civic responsibility and duty, or so I'm told.
>
>I think there's a place in the curriculum for that. It's a crying
>shame that most HS students (and yes, I know we all know counter-
>examples) don't know how the US Constitution works, or how you
>become a citizen, or what taxes pay for, etc. (If you're not
>an American, please either substitute the appropriate words, or
>smile smugly and ignore. :)
I agree with you -- but that's not the same thing as schools teaching
social manners, which is what Gabe was advocating. *That* kind of
teaching is the parents' job, not the schoolteacher's.