Speaking of the Post Office...
Chris Zakes
healthcare system to that of the Post Office an FEMA. This led a few
folks to leap to the defense of the Post Office.
Guys, you might want to look before you leap. CBS News has a story
today saying that the Post Office lost $3.8 billion in their
just-finished fiscal year, and a total of $7.8 billion in '07 and '08.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/11/19/politics/main5711797.shtml
-Chris Zakes
Texas
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds the most
discoveries, is not "Eureka!" but "That's funny..."
-Issac Asimov
Dan Goodman
> I recently compared the probable efficiency of a government-run
> healthcare system to that of the Post Office an FEMA. This led a few
> folks to leap to the defense of the Post Office.
>
> Guys, you might want to look before you leap. CBS News has a story
> today saying that the Post Office lost $3.8 billion in their
> just-finished fiscal year, and a total of $7.8 billion in '07 and '08.
>
> http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/11/19/politics/main5711797.shtml
The Post Office has been privatized, making it "free enterprise" :)
rather than "government run."
Rule of thumb: Anything run by a combination of government and private
or semi-private business will be more expensive and less efficient than
either government or business.
As for health care -- we have a situation in which "I'm from the
Government, and I'm here to simplify your paperwork" seems plausible to
many people.
--
Dan Goodman
Journal at:
dsgood.livejournal.com
dsgood.dreamwidth.org
dsgood.insanejournal.com
Marten Kemp
That's because the 1040-EZ is the most complicated thing they
ever encounter.
--
-- Marten Kemp (Fix ISP to reply)
You can't help being ignorant 'cause there's always
something you don't know; what you can't be is stupid.
Tom the Alien Cat
>
> As for health care -- we have a situation in which "I'm from the
> Government, and I'm here to simplify your paperwork" seems plausible to
> many people.
It's more like "It's a letter from the insurance company -- they say
they're not going to pay for last year's operation after all!" That's
what been plausible.
For us people who just -can- -not- -get- insurance, we'd rather get
our denials from government bureaucrats, directly answerable to our
congresspeople. Not folks in business suits whose paycheck depends on
whether their CEO can afford a second yacht.
tom tac
"who unfortunately knows whereof he speaks"
Chris Zakes
caused Marten Kemp <marte...@thisplanet-link.net> to write:
>Dan Goodman wrote:
>> Chris Zakes wrote:
>>
>>> I recently compared the probable efficiency of a government-run
>>> healthcare system to that of the Post Office an FEMA. This led a few
>>> folks to leap to the defense of the Post Office.
>>>
>>> Guys, you might want to look before you leap. CBS News has a story
>>> today saying that the Post Office lost $3.8 billion in their
>>> just-finished fiscal year, and a total of $7.8 billion in '07 and '08.
>>>
>>> http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/11/19/politics/main5711797.shtml
>>
>> The Post Office has been privatized, making it "free enterprise" :)
>> rather than "government run."
>>
>> Rule of thumb: Anything run by a combination of government and private
>> or semi-private business will be more expensive and less efficient than
>> either government or business.
>>
>> As for health care -- we have a situation in which "I'm from the
>> Government, and I'm here to simplify your paperwork" seems plausible to
>> many people.
>
>That's because the 1040-EZ is the most complicated thing they
>ever encounter.
Y'know, I can remember when the 1040-A was supposed to be the "easy"
version of the 1040 tax form. I also remember Carter's 1980 "Paperwork
Reduction Act", but it's a funny thing, judging by the size of the
booklet I get from the IRS every year, the paperwork has *increased*,
not been reduced.
Bean Counter
(composed with fixed font, for spacing)
Let's seek to understand the mysterious by analogy with the familiar:
Elephants Bureaucracies
Large, ungainly creatures Yes
Reproduction takes huge effort The election cycle is 4 years
at high levels, and gives results
two years later
Need vast quantities of fodder "A form for everything" and
"The paper is the purpose, the
power, and the glory, for ever
and ever. Amen"
Food is masticated and ruminated Yes
in complex, not easily understood
digestive process
Results of digestion are larger Yes
elephants and huge steaming piles
of crap.
--
When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
- Scott Adams, "Dilbert" Sept 22,'09
Chris Zakes
Yes, but elephants can be trained to do useful work, such as hauling
logs in remote areas. What useful work do bureaucracies do?
Dan Goodman
> Dan Goodman wrote:
> > Chris Zakes wrote:
> >
> > > I recently compared the probable efficiency of a government-run
> > > healthcare system to that of the Post Office an FEMA. This led a
> > > few folks to leap to the defense of the Post Office.
> > >
> > > Guys, you might want to look before you leap. CBS News has a story
> > > today saying that the Post Office lost $3.8 billion in their
> > > just-finished fiscal year, and a total of $7.8 billion in '07 and
> > > '08.
> > >
> > > http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/11/19/politics/main5711797.sht
> > > ml
> >
> > The Post Office has been privatized, making it "free enterprise" :)
> > rather than "government run."
> >
> > Rule of thumb: Anything run by a combination of government and
> > private or semi-private business will be more expensive and less
> > efficient than either government or business.
> >
> > As for health care -- we have a situation in which "I'm from the
> > Government, and I'm here to simplify your paperwork" seems
> > plausible to many people.
>
> That's because the 1040-EZ is the most complicated thing they
> ever encounter.
Not if they have health insurance.
Or if they've ever been on welfare, for that matter.
David
typed:
"The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding
bureaucracy" Unknown. Quoted from the game Civilization IV.
--
David
No email replies please.
Try to value useful qualities in one who loves you.
wuffa
> I recently compared the probable efficiency of a government-run
> healthcare system to that of the Post Office an FEMA. This led a few
> folks to leap to the defense of the Post Office.
>
Yet our " non-government-run healthcare system cost much more and we
get much less out of it( it is not as good) as the "healthcare system"
government-run in the EU.
wuffa
MajorOz
According to..............
Note: I refer to health care.........NOT to health care PAYMENTS.
cheers
oz, healthy and cared for
John W. Vinson
wrote:
So... where does the US rank in terms of longevity? neonatal mortality?
incidence of cancer, heart disease, diabetes?
Hint: we're NOT first. We're not even in the top ten.
--
John the Wysard JVinson *at* Wysard Of Info *dot* com
MajorOz
<jvinson@STOP_SPAM.WysardOfInfo.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 13:23:17 -0800 (PST), MajorOz <Majo...@centurytel.net>
> wrote:
>
> >On Nov 23, 6:47 am, wuffa <magewu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Nov 20, 6:24 pm, Chris Zakes <donti...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > I recently compared the probable efficiency of a government-run
> >> > healthcare system to that of the Post Office an FEMA. This led a few
> >> > folks to leap to the defense of the Post Office.
>
> >> Yet our " non-government-run healthcare system cost much more and we
> >> get much less out of it( it is not as good) as the "healthcare system"
> >> government-run in the EU.
> >> wuffa
>
> >According to..............
>
> >Note: I refer to health care.........NOT to health care PAYMENTS.
>
> So... where does the US rank in terms of longevity? neonatal mortality?
> incidence of cancer, heart disease, diabetes?
>
> Hint: we're NOT first. We're not even in the top ten.
Agreed.
Disregarding, for the moment, neonatal mortality (which is as much a
matter of reportage as occurrence) most of the rest can be laid at the
foot of Big Macs, inactivity, sugar intake, and other PERSONAL
choices, with vary little of it due to medical care or its lack.
cheers
oz, too fat, too lazy, but changing both, and have cut WAY down on
jelly beans that made about 30% of my diet
Wes Struebing
Sure, but if I can't afford it, I can live in the country with the
absolute best healthcare in the world - but it sure isn't for me.
But, you are right to attempt to separate the two.
--
Wes Struebing
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America,
and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples,
promising liberty and justice for all.
Homepage: www.carpedementem.org
linkedin profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/wesstruebing
ShariSez
> healthcare system to that of the Post Office an FEMA. This led a few
> folks to leap to the defense of the Post Office.
>
> Guys, you might want to look before you leap. CBS News has a story
> today saying that the Post Office lost $3.8 billion in their
> just-finished fiscal year, and a total of $7.8 billion in '07 and '08.
>
> http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/11/19/politics/main5711797.shtml
>
> -Chris Zakes
> Texas
>
I beg your pardon but we haven't privatized unless by that you mean
more jobs (like driving the big trucks and 1-800-ASK-USPS) have been
contracted out. As far as the losses. The USPS has been allowed to
raise their prices 2 lousy cents this year, a penny the year before
and 2 cents the year before that. Every time gas goes up 1 cent the
PO's gas bill goes up 8 million dollars a day. You think 5 cents in
rate increases in the last 3 years covered $4 a gallon gas? Likewise,
prices for everything else have gone up just like they have for John Q
Public. I actually can't wait until the PO does privatize and some of
you that like to bash without a real grasp of what goes on at the PO
find out how bad it can REALLY be. If you're honestly interested in
reality, do a little research and find out how both our service and
our prices stack up against postal systems in other countries.
Jette Goldie
Or worse - compared with private postal companies!
Here in the UK everyone criticises the Royal Mail - but they all
expect all their letters delivered to their door (houses don't tend to
have mail boxes here). "X Private company say they'll do it cheaper
and faster" - sure, but X Private company don't deliver *to the door*,
unless the door happens to be in the middle of a city (and even then
usually not unless the door happens to be a business address). What X
Private company does is to accept your letter, do a "pre-sort" and
then dump it into the Royal Mail "downstream" to be delivered (and get
a final sort) to the delivery address by a RM postal worker - for
which Royal Mail only get paid a few pennies.
--
Jette Goldie
jette....@gmail.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wolfette/
http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
http://wolfette.livejournal.com/
("reply to" is spamblocked - use the email addy in sig)
Chris Zakes
<shrug> UPS and FedEx will deliver to pretty much any door in the US.
About the only places they *don't* deliver to are some really remote
locations up in places like Montana, where they and the USPS all share
the same delivery truck.
And for that matter, in many parts of the US, the Post Office
*doesn't* deliver to the door. Starting in the 1970s, new houses had
curbside mailbox like this one:
http://cathylwood.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/mailbox.jpg
And somewhere aroune 1990, they invented "community" mailboxes--a
cluster of thirty or forty mailboxes every few blocks that the
homeowners have to go to for their mail:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2658/3790839461_fd6e3d22d9.jpg
I suppose these are more efficient for the mail carriers, but they're
a bloody nuisance for me.
MajorOz
I never compare how our goods and services " ...stack up against...
[ those in ] other countries". I compare only how they stack up
against what they could be, here, if done better -- be they government
or private.
Other countries have their reasons for doing things; we have ours.
Much of it has to do with concepts of taxation and liberty (not to be
confused with freedom).
As to: "...can't wait...", it will be a BOON to us all, as, when they
do privatize, the law prohibiting you and me from delivering letters
will disappear, resulting in REAL service, due to competition.
cheers
oz, in the bosom of the family
MajorOz
My mail box is just over a mile from my house. They won't deliver
closer. UPS, FedEX, and the Yellow guys all come to the door.
cheers
oz, waiting for snow
ShariSez
to pay overnight prices. The USPS does not leave $1500 parcels sitting
on my doorstep, FedEx does. The USPS picks up mail at my house, UPS
has one, ONE location in T-town...unless you want to go to a UPS store
and pay a surcharge.
And OZ, if the mail delivery gets opened up to privatization the
private carriers will merely skim the cream. Big cities only, you will
have no choice but to rent one of their boxes at their price. If you
want a letter delivered to Aunt Tilly in Humptulips WA a private
carrier will laugh in your face.
Have fun with it. The USPS will still deliver anywhere in the US but
it will cost you...and you'll bitch about that too.
Chris Zakes
laser caused ShariSez <Shar...@aol.com> to write:
>Think again. UPS and FedEx do NOT deliver letter mail unless you want
>to pay overnight prices.
Well, yes, they're forbidden *by law* from doing so, so as to not
compete with the Post Office.
>The USPS does not leave $1500 parcels sitting
>on my doorstep, FedEx does.
Interesting. My wife got a new computer last week--about
$750.00--FedEx left a note on the door to come pick it up at their
office.
(That being said, I *have* had UPS leave computer boxes stashed behind
our air conditioner unit, so they're not visible from the street.)
>The USPS picks up mail at my house,
Must be nice. I'd guess you live in an older part of town. Here (10-15
year old neighborhood) I have to walk up the hill and around the
corner to drop outbound letters at the community mailbox, or drive two
or thee miles to the nearest "real" mailbox.
Jette Goldie
> On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 04:12:35 -0800 (PST), an orbital mind-control
> laser caused ShariSez <Shar...@aol.com> to write:
>
>> Think again. UPS and FedEx do NOT deliver letter mail unless you want
>> to pay overnight prices.
>
> Well, yes, they're forbidden *by law* from doing so, so as to not
> compete with the Post Office.
>
Are you sure about that? In the UK they're not forbidden - they just
choose not to because it's not "profitable".
--
Jette Goldie
jette....@gmail.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wolfette/
http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
http://wolfette.livejournal.com/
("reply to" is spamblocked - use the email addy in sig)
Chris Zakes
caused Jette Goldie <jgold...@btinternet.com> to write:
>Chris Zakes wrote:
>> On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 04:12:35 -0800 (PST), an orbital mind-control
>> laser caused ShariSez <Shar...@aol.com> to write:
>>
>>> Think again. UPS and FedEx do NOT deliver letter mail unless you want
>>> to pay overnight prices.
>>
>> Well, yes, they're forbidden *by law* from doing so, so as to not
>> compete with the Post Office.
>>
>
>Are you sure about that? In the UK they're not forbidden - they just
>choose not to because it's not "profitable".
Yep. Only the US Postal Service can deliver "regular" letters in this
country.
Doing a bit of digging, the Wikipedia article on the US Post Office
says:
"Article I, section 8, Clause 7 of the United States Constitution
grants U.S. Congress the power to establish post offices and post
roads. The Federal Government has interpreted this clause as granting
a de facto Congressional monopoly over the delivery of mail. According
to the government, no other system for delivering mail - public or
private - can be established absent Congress's consent. Congress has
delegated to the Postal Service the power to decide whether others may
compete with it, and the Postal Service has carved out an exception to
its monopoly for extremely urgent letters."
Different countries, different customs.
Walter Bushell
"Dan Goodman" <dsg...@iphouse.com> wrote:
Or if they are running a medical practice and have to deal with a
googolplex of companies and plans all different with different gotchas,
and bureaucracies.
--
A computer without Microsoft is like a chocolate cake without mustard.