TOAST: HR 3962
ka.mi...@gmail.com
Representatives has passed HR 3962.
Included as aspects of the bill:
an end to discrimination based on "pre-
existing conditions"
the national health insurance exchange
a public option under that exchange
The bill provides basic medical coverage,
according to the CBO, to 96% of all
Americans.
While health care reform still has a long
road ahead, this is a historic moment.
< < < CRASH > > >
Magus Firecow.
Clothahump
But not for the reasons you think.
Now is the time to find the voting record on that bill. Everyone who
voted in favor of it needs to be flushed out of office at the next
election and replaced with people who understand that socialism is NOT
healthy for this country.
Margo
wrote:
To a good beginning....
>>>>>>>>>>>CRASH<<<<<<<<<<
Margo
Jette Goldie
> health care, in this the only major industrialized nation where such is not
> universal, and where our outcomes, despite the finest technology on the
> planet, rank us with the third world?
>
> Or, are the poor that way because they deserve no better, and aren't
> _really_ human?
>
"Are there no prisons? No workhouses?"
--
Jette Goldie
jette....@gmail.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wolfette/
http://www.jette.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
http://wolfette.livejournal.com/
("reply to" is spamblocked - use the email addy in sig)
Chris Zakes
Is this the 1900+ page monstrosity that includes fines and jail time
for *not* having insurance, higher taxes and federal funding of
healthcare for illegal immigrants? That's an awful lot of baggage just
to get pre-existing conditions covered. I wonder how many
congresscritters actually read it before they voted for it?
And *how* much is it going to cost? Over a trillion dollars? Where do
they plan to get that money? (Oh, that's right, they own the printing
presses, they can print all the money they need.)
But I suppose if you like how FEMA and the Post Office operate, this
will be OK, too. Me, I'll pass on this particular toast.
-Chris Zakes
Texas
"We put all our politicians in prison as soon as they're elected. Don't you?"
"Why?"
"It saves time."
-Terry Pratchett, "The Last Continent"
ka.mi...@gmail.com
Perhaps you'll join in on the next one then.
Magus Firecow.
MajorOz
wrote:
I certainly will..........when the senate fails to pass it.
cheers
oz
Kathy Fitz
>
> While health care reform still has a long
> road ahead, this is a historic moment.
>
> < < < CRASH > > >
>
This is the beginning of the answer to, "What happens to me if I lose
my job or get too sick to work, or even if I want to switch jobs? How
do I get coverage for the bipolar and the OCD and the panic disorder
and the asthma and the ADD and the arthritis and the cornea
condition? How do I get the seven prescription medications I have to
take every day, and how does my new sweetie get his 14 or so if he's
in the same boat?" It's not the whole answer, but it's a very good
start.
And I would point out to those who have spoken in opposition that this
country has had socialized medicine for years, it just hasn't been
available to everyone. What the hell do you think Medicare and
Medicaid are?
--Kathy, so sure that my rep did the right thing that I don't even
have to look (I've got Kucinich)
Wes Struebing
It certainly isn't the best it could be, but it is far better than the
alternative.
I'm afraid that it puts potentially illegal restrictions on abortions,
thanks to the Stupak Amendment, but at least the legislators didn't
bow to the "ban them entirely!" crowd...
In any case, I can join in that toast!
<<<CRASH>>>
--
Wes Struebing
I pledge allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America,
and to the republic which it established, one nation from many peoples,
promising liberty and justice for all.
Homepage: www.carpedementem.org
linkedin profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/wesstruebing
Wes Struebing
wrote:
OK. We'll also do away with the VA and Medicare...
John W. Vinson
>>Now is the time to find the voting record on that bill. Everyone who
>>voted in favor of it needs to be flushed out of office at the next
>>election and replaced with people who understand that socialism is NOT
>>healthy for this country.
>
>OK. We'll also do away with the VA and Medicare...
>--
and the highway administration and crop supports...
--
John the Wysard JVinson *at* Wysard Of Info *dot* com
The TheatrElf
news:iv1ff5tv45950jgr0...@4ax.com:
> On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 09:33:49 -0600, Clothahump
> <hookk...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>ka.mi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> By a margin of 220-215, the US House of
>>> Representatives has passed HR 3962.
>>>
>>> Included as aspects of the bill:
>>> an end to discrimination based on "pre-
>>> existing conditions"
>>> the national health insurance exchange
>>> a public option under that exchange
>>>
>>> The bill provides basic medical coverage,
>>> according to the CBO, to 96% of all
>>> Americans.
>>>
>>> While health care reform still has a long
>>> road ahead, this is a historic moment.
>>>
>>> < < < CRASH > > >
>>>
>>====================
>>But not for the reasons you think.
>>
>>Now is the time to find the voting record on that bill.
>>Everyone who voted in favor of it needs to be flushed out of
>>office at the next election and replaced with people who
>>understand that socialism is NOT healthy for this country.
>
> OK. We'll also do away with the VA and Medicare...
And the Fire and Police Departments, which includes ambulances
and paramedics. Oh, and roads.
It's long been accepted and acceptable to share certain expenses
among everyone.
Which, by the way, this bill will not do.
This bill is not a step towards socialism, it will only flush
more money into the pockets of stockholders of the major health
insurance companies.
--
Xjahn
The TheatrElf
http://manormaniac.blogspot.com/
Dont'cha hate it when that happens?
The TheatrElf
news:cltdf51e2p4lv2kbn...@4ax.com:
> But I suppose if you like how FEMA and the Post Office
> operate, this will be OK, too. Me, I'll pass on this
> particular toast.
I get my mail several times a week, and my letters get where
they're going, and it costs pennies.
FEMA? It worked pretty good until some Conservatives "fixed" it.
We really need to not let Conservatives fix anything: they always
makes everything much worse than when it started. Write this
down: 1. Don't let the French build anything electrical. 2.
Don't let Conservatives "fix" things.
So, I'll see your FEMA and raise your police and fire
departments. Funded by tax dollars, they work pretty well.
While nothing is perfect, it's been over a hundred years since a
city actually burned to the ground.
I sure like the way the military is being run; gosh, it's been a
long time since a foreign nation invaded us and burned down the
White House.
That Interstate Highway system is great! Sure, I think we should
stop adding capacity to it, and start maintaing its
infrastructure, but man is it easier to get around than it was 60
years ago!
People who think the government is completely inefficient
generally don't know what they are talking about.
--
Xjahn
The TheatrElf
http://manormaniac.blogspot.com/
It's all in the mind, ya know.
Hanging Jester
082b-43f4-843...@g27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com:
> By a margin of 220-215, the US House of
> Representatives has passed HR 3962.
> <snip>
Aside from targeting those "big evil" insurance companies and throwing
taxpayer money (that we don't have) at the problem, I fail to see where
this bill addresses the problem of high healthcare costs or how it will
"reform" anything besides maybe (and I mean a big "maybe") health insurance
companies. While it would "provide healthcare" to the masses, I am not
convinced that it will be quality or timely health care, or that they have
considered where they are going to get the neccesary healthcare
professionals needed. I am also extremely skeptical that there is honesty
in the estimated financial costs as provided by the Democratic leadership.
I think any toasts for the true reforming of health care are very
premature.
~ Jester
ka.mi...@gmail.com
> "ka.ming....@gmail.com" <ka.ming....@gmail.com> wrote in news:4e6701bd-
> 082b-43f4-8435-ff758acf2...@g27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com:
I'm not going to argue your points. I have
done so before, and I don't think either of
us are going to budge on our positions.
John Dingell has continuously represented
Michigan's 15th District for over five decades.
In every single one of his terms he has
introduced a national health insurance bill.
It's been almost a hundred years since
the Bull Moose party ran on a progressive
platform including nationalized health care.
It's been forty four years since Medicare
was signed into law, and twenty four since
COBRA insurance got its legal mandate.
Health care reforms have been a goal of the
progressive wing of US government for a
long time. The House bill, as a product of
politics, compromise and negotiations, isn't
exactly what the reformers want, nor is it
what their opponents want either. But it is
a step forward, from the persepctive of those
who have been fighting for it for the entire
twentieth century.
And it's a momentous step forward. The
most representative segment of the legislative
branch has approved a method for providing
basic medical coverage to almost everyone.
Magus Firecow.
Chris Zakes
laser caused The TheatrElf <xj...@netscape.net> to write:
>Chris Zakes <dont...@gmail.com> wrote in
>news:cltdf51e2p4lv2kbn...@4ax.com:
>
>> But I suppose if you like how FEMA and the Post Office
>> operate, this will be OK, too. Me, I'll pass on this
>> particular toast.
>
>I get my mail several times a week, and my letters get where
>they're going, and it costs pennies.
Yes, it does. *Lots* of pennies, and more every year, it seems.
What does a First Class stamp cost now? 42 cents, or has it gone up
again? I switched to online bill-paying when postage reached 40 cents
per stamp, so these days, about the only time I interact with the Post
Office is when I'm mailing out one of my "Moondragon Manuals"
(http://moondragon.info/wiki/The_Moondragon_Manual_of_Rapier_Combat)
But standing in line for twenty minutes to do that isn't much fun.
I will say that their new "forever stamps" are both a good idea and an
ominous sign for the future. I buy maybe one or two books of stamps a
year, so it's good in that I don't need to go out and buy a batch of
one-cent stamps every time rates go up, but the implication that rates
will continue to go up frequently is pretty ominous.
>FEMA? It worked pretty good until some Conservatives "fixed" it.
>We really need to not let Conservatives fix anything: they always
>makes everything much worse than when it started. Write this
>down: 1. Don't let the French build anything electrical. 2.
>Don't let Conservatives "fix" things.
Ah, yes, we all know that Conservatives are responsible for everything
that's gone wrong in this country.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/6520286/Bloodless-President-Barack-Obama-makes-Americans-wistful-for-George-W-Bush.html
>So, I'll see your FEMA and raise your police and fire
>departments. Funded by tax dollars, they work pretty well.
>While nothing is perfect, it's been over a hundred years since a
>city actually burned to the ground.
>
>I sure like the way the military is being run; gosh, it's been a
>long time since a foreign nation invaded us and burned down the
>White House.
That's only because the passengers on Flight 93 stopped the hijackers
*before* they managed to hit the White House.
>That Interstate Highway system is great! Sure, I think we should
>stop adding capacity to it, and start maintaing its
>infrastructure, but man is it easier to get around than it was 60
>years ago!
Granted it's easier to get around. But you don't think the
infrastructure maintenance problem is a problem? On the other hand, I
don't know about where you live, but in Texas, the Department of
Transportation has gotten obsessed with building toll roads instead of
proper highways. They claim they're out of money, but that's mostly
because the tax money that's *supposed* to be used for highways keeps
getting siphoned off for other, unrelated stuff.
>People who think the government is completely inefficient
>generally don't know what they are talking about.
"We're from the government. We're here to help you."
Morgan
wrote:
I hate to break it to you, but Kucinich voted "Nay."
http://kucinich.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=153995
Morgan /|\
Also looking forward to not having to worry about coverage for a
pre-existing condition if her hunny loses or changes jobs
John W. Vinson
>Yes, it does. *Lots* of pennies, and more every year, it seems.
>
>What does a First Class stamp cost now? 42 cents, or has it gone up
>again?
44 cents, actually.
I remember when postage stamps cost a nickel. A coke cost a nickel then too.
How much does a coke cost now...?
Jette Goldie
> On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 09:33:49 -0600, Clothahump <hookk...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>> ka.mi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> By a margin of 220-215, the US House of
>>> Representatives has passed HR 3962.
>>>
>>> Included as aspects of the bill:
>>> an end to discrimination based on "pre-
>>> existing conditions"
>>> the national health insurance exchange
>>> a public option under that exchange
>>>
>>> The bill provides basic medical coverage,
>>> according to the CBO, to 96% of all
>>> Americans.
>>>
>>> While health care reform still has a long
>>> road ahead, this is a historic moment.
>>>
>>> < < < CRASH > > >
>>>
>> ====================
>> But not for the reasons you think.
>>
>> Now is the time to find the voting record on that bill. Everyone who
>> voted in favor of it needs to be flushed out of office at the next
>> election and replaced with people who understand that socialism is NOT
>> healthy for this country.
>
> OK. We'll also do away with the VA and Medicare...
I'm hearing a strong subtext of "I've got mine so screw you, Jack"
from some parties over there, Wes.
Kathy Fitz
>
> I hate to break it to you, but Kucinich voted "Nay."
>
> http://kucinich.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=153995
>
have been more clear and said that I trusted him not to approach the
question from the same side as the conservatives who objected. Dennis
thinks it's not *enough* and he's right, and he's idealistic enough to
refuse to vote for half a loaf. But it's a good start.
--Kathy
Wes Struebing
<kater...@hotmail.com> wrote:
<snip of, to me, very salient points>
>
>--Kathy, so sure that my rep did the right thing that I don't even
>have to look (I've got Kucinich)
He held his nose and voted for it.
Wes Struebing
Indeed. You've been hearing that for quite a while, Jette.
And the fight gets tougher in the Senate...
Wes Struebing
I stand corrected. I had initially read he had voted Aye...I
apologize, Kathy...
Jim Hetley
> On Mon, 09 Nov 2009 17:23:41 +0000, Jette Goldie
>
>
>
> <jgoldie...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> >Wes Struebing wrote:
> >> wrote:
My personal conspiracy theory is that the right wing is forcing
abortion issues into the bill, the left wing is forcing the government
insurance option into the bill, and between them they've agreed to
kill the possibility of actual reform . . .
Jim
Chris Zakes
caused John W. Vinson <jvinson@STOP_SPAM.WysardOfInfo.com> to write:
>On Mon, 09 Nov 2009 07:09:55 -0600, Chris Zakes <dont...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Yes, it does. *Lots* of pennies, and more every year, it seems.
>>
>>What does a First Class stamp cost now? 42 cents, or has it gone up
>>again?
>
>44 cents, actually.
>
>I remember when postage stamps cost a nickel. A coke cost a nickel then too.
>
>How much does a coke cost now...?
That depends. How big a container did you get for your nickel? A
20-ounce bottle from a vending machine cost $1.00 the last time I
bought one (which was, admittedly, a few years ago, so the price may
have gone up.) A glass of coke at a restaurant is usually a couple of
dollars.
But I paid $4.49 for a 12-pack of cans yesterday; that breaks down to
37 cents per 12-ounce can.
-Chris Zakes
Texas
It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged.
-G.K. Chesterton
Hanging Jester
news:bbd1d6ca-58ed-4838...@m1g2000vbi.googlegroups.com:
> <snip>
We all have our own opinions. I think what the House passed is a well
meaning boondoggle that will not solve or reform health care problems. I
believe that it is clearly molded to destroy healthcare insurance companies
without doing a damn thing to fix any of the other problems with health
care. I've stated my take on this issue and I'm done with it.
Having seen the flamewars that erupted over it, I have no desire to discuss
it further. Some are already starting to try to rekindle the flames, and I
say they are again doing Alt.callahans a disservice. If the nastyness
continues, I too will say goodbye for good to this incarnation. There are
plenty of other places to go where issues can be disccused without mean
trollish attacks.
~ Jester.
The TheatrElf
> On Mon, 9 Nov 2009 05:28:53 +0000 (UTC), an orbital
> mind-control laser caused The TheatrElf <xj...@netscape.net>
> to write:
>
>>Chris Zakes <dont...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>news:cltdf51e2p4lv2kbn...@4ax.com:
>>
>>> But I suppose if you like how FEMA and the Post Office
>>> operate, this will be OK, too. Me, I'll pass on this
>>> particular toast.
>>
>>I get my mail several times a week, and my letters get where
>>they're going, and it costs pennies.
>
> Yes, it does. *Lots* of pennies, and more every year, it
> seems.
>
> What does a First Class stamp cost now? 42 cents, or has it
> gone up again?
Sent anything by FedEx recently? Or hired a courier? Funny
thing, in this real world, prices go up. But even so, the USPS
is the cheapest and most reliable option.
>
> I will say that their new "forever stamps" are both a good
> idea and an ominous sign for the future. I buy maybe one or
> two books of stamps a year, so it's good in that I don't need
> to go out and buy a batch of one-cent stamps every time rates
> go up, but the implication that rates will continue to go up
> frequently is pretty ominous.
>
>
>>FEMA? It worked pretty good until some Conservatives "fixed"
>>it. We really need to not let Conservatives fix anything:
>>they always makes everything much worse than when it started.
>>Write this down: 1. Don't let the French build anything
>>electrical. 2. Don't let Conservatives "fix" things.
>
> Ah, yes, we all know that Conservatives are responsible for
> everything that's gone wrong in this country.
No, not responsible, just contributory.
>
>>So, I'll see your FEMA and raise your police and fire
>>departments. Funded by tax dollars, they work pretty well.
>>While nothing is perfect, it's been over a hundred years since
>>a city actually burned to the ground.
>>
>>I sure like the way the military is being run; gosh, it's been
>>a long time since a foreign nation invaded us and burned down
>>the White House.
>
> That's only because the passengers on Flight 93 stopped the
> hijackers *before* they managed to hit the White House.
And of course, the planes were not and are not and never were an
army. They are what we're vulnerable to: attacks from within.
>
>
>>That Interstate Highway system is great! Sure, I think we
>>should stop adding capacity to it, and start maintaing its
>>infrastructure, but man is it easier to get around than it was
>>60 years ago!
>
> Granted it's easier to get around. But you don't think the
> infrastructure maintenance problem is a problem?
Sure do. Who keeps voting against funding infrastructure? I'll
give you a hint: it's the people who rail against paying ANY
taxes.
--
Xjahn
The TheatrElf
http://manormaniac.blogspot.com/
Atheists are people who have no invisible means of support.
The TheatrElf
> On Mon, 09 Nov 2009 09:53:00 -0700, an orbital mind-control
> laser caused John W. Vinson
> <jvinson@STOP_SPAM.WysardOfInfo.com> to write:
>
>>On Mon, 09 Nov 2009 07:09:55 -0600, Chris Zakes
>><dont...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Yes, it does. *Lots* of pennies, and more every year, it
>>>seems.
>>>
>>>What does a First Class stamp cost now? 42 cents, or has it
>>>gone up again?
>>
>>44 cents, actually.
>>
>>I remember when postage stamps cost a nickel. A coke cost a
>>nickel then too.
>>
>>How much does a coke cost now...?
>
> That depends. How big a container did you get for your nickel?
8 ounces in the green bottles, but fountains generally dispensed
12 ounces.
> A 20-ounce bottle from a vending machine cost $1.00 the last
> time I bought one (which was, admittedly, a few years ago, so
> the price may have gone up.) A glass of coke at a restaurant
> is usually a couple of dollars.
Versus the aforementioned nickel they used to cost at a
restaurant or in a vending machine. When I was kid, it was a
quarter, still more than the 10 stamps of the time.
So, tell us again about how mail costs have risen at the USPS are
objectionable?
--
Xjahn
The TheatrElf
http://manormaniac.blogspot.com/
"A poet who reads his verse in public may have other nasty
habits."
- Robert Heinlien
suzil
<jvinson@STOP_SPAM.WysardOfInfo.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 09 Nov 2009 07:09:55 -0600, Chris Zakes <donti...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Yes, it does. *Lots* of pennies, and more every year, it seems.
>
> >What does a First Class stamp cost now? 42 cents, or has it gone up
> >again?
>
> 44 cents, actually.
>
> I remember when postage stamps cost a nickel. A coke cost a nickel then too.
>
> How much does a coke cost now...?
> --
>
> John the Wysard JVinson *at* Wysard Of Info *dot* com
and a three-pack of Hostess cupcakes cost $.08 (yes, "three", not
"two") (this would have been around 1962 or so). In 1970, a
cheeseburger, fries, and a coke cost less than a dollar at McDonalds,
and one of their ads emphasized that a family of four could eat for
less than $5.00
In 1972, I fed a family of two adults and one baby and bought
disposable diapers and formula for less than $20 a week. Granted, I
got three meals plus soup out of one chicken. :-)
Jim Hetley
<jvinson@STOP_SPAM.WysardOfInfo.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 09 Nov 2009 07:09:55 -0600, Chris Zakes <donti...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Yes, it does. *Lots* of pennies, and more every year, it seems.
>
> >What does a First Class stamp cost now? 42 cents, or has it gone up
> >again?
>
> 44 cents, actually.
>
> I remember when postage stamps cost a nickel. A coke cost a nickel then too.
>
> How much does a coke cost now...?
> --
>
> John the Wysard JVinson *at* Wysard Of Info *dot* com
Hey, John, I remember three-cent stamps . . .
And gasoline at $.25 a gallon.
(Old Farts Club)
Jim
MajorOz
> On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 09:33:49 -0600, Clothahump <hookkic...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >ka.ming....@gmail.com wrote:
> >> By a margin of 220-215, the US House of
> >> Representatives has passed HR 3962.
>
> >> Included as aspects of the bill:
> >> an end to discrimination based on "pre-
> >> existing conditions"
> >> the national health insurance exchange
> >> a public option under that exchange
>
> >> The bill provides basic medical coverage,
> >> according to the CBO, to 96% of all
> >> Americans.
>
> >> While health care reform still has a long
> >> road ahead, this is a historic moment.
>
> >> < < < CRASH > > >
>
> >====================
> >But not for the reasons you think.
>
> >Now is the time to find the voting record on that bill. Everyone who
> >voted in favor of it needs to be flushed out of office at the next
> >election and replaced with people who understand that socialism is NOT
> >healthy for this country.
>
> OK. We'll also do away with the VA and Medicare...
VA -- no
Medicare -- yes
good start
cheers
oz
MajorOz
> Wes Struebing <str...@comcast.net> wrote innews:iv1ff5tv45950jgr0...@4ax.com:
>
>
>
> > On Sun, 08 Nov 2009 09:33:49 -0600, Clothahump
Well, DUH
oz
MajorOz
> Chris Zakes <donti...@gmail.com> wrote innews:cltdf51e2p4lv2kbn...@4ax.com:
......"completely" ? Agreed
......."unnecessarily" ? Undeniable
cheers
oz, who notes that "government" services improve, both in efficiency
and effectiveness, the closer they are to "home", which is why the
local fire dept works well and OSHA doesn't
MajorOz
> On Mon, 09 Nov 2009 09:53:00 -0700, an orbital mind-control laser
> caused John W. Vinson <jvinson@STOP_SPAM.WysardOfInfo.com> to write:
>
>
> >>Yes, it does. *Lots* of pennies, and more every year, it seems.
>
> >>What does a First Class stamp cost now? 42 cents, or has it gone up
> >>again?
>
> >44 cents, actually.
>
> >I remember when postage stamps cost a nickel. A coke cost a nickel then too.
>
> >How much does a coke cost now...?
>
> That depends. How big a container did you get for your nickel? A
> 20-ounce bottle from a vending machine cost $1.00 the last time I
> bought one (which was, admittedly, a few years ago, so the price may
> have gone up.) A glass of coke at a restaurant is usually a couple of
> dollars.
>
> But I paid $4.49 for a 12-pack of cans yesterday; that breaks down to
> 37 cents per 12-ounce can.
...and the nickel Cokes were seven ounces.
cheers
oz, who used to "go distance" to see who paid for them
MajorOz
> Chris Zakes <donti...@gmail.com> wrote innews:va3gf5hktogn06koh...@4ax.com:
>
>
>
> > On Mon, 9 Nov 2009 05:28:53 +0000 (UTC), an orbital
> > mind-control laser caused The TheatrElf <xj...@netscape.net>
> > to write:
>
> >>news:cltdf51e2p4lv2kbn...@4ax.com:
>
> >>> But I suppose if you like how FEMA and the Post Office
> >>> operate, this will be OK, too. Me, I'll pass on this
> >>> particular toast.
>
> >>I get my mail several times a week, and my letters get where
> >>they're going, and it costs pennies.
>
> > Yes, it does. *Lots* of pennies, and more every year, it
> > seems.
>
> > What does a First Class stamp cost now? 42 cents, or has it
> > gone up again?
>
> Sent anything by FedEx recently? Or hired a courier? Funny
> thing, in this real world, prices go up. But even so, the USPS
> is the cheapest and most reliable option.
Maybe if you live in an urban area, but not, by a long shot, in my
area.
The folks out here in the hinterlands erected some (illegal)
billboards next to I-70 and I-44 a few years ago when some dipshit got
a statewide ballot issue to build a baseball stadium in St. Louis.
Sign read: "We will vote to build your ball park if St. Louis votes to
fix our highways"
The initiative failed.
The next year, after the legislature was "purged", a bill was passed,
overwhelmingly, that required highway funds to be used ONLY for
highway projects -- what a concept.
cheers
oz
MajorOz
> Chris Zakes <donti...@gmail.com> wrote innews:vfohf55sb4v14i2va...@4ax.com:
On a percentage basis, compared to UPS, FedEx, and the Yellow Guys.
Of course, as will become true in medicine, nobody but government is
allowed to deliver letters.
cheers
oz, survivor
Chris Zakes
laser caused The TheatrElf <xj...@netscape.net> to write:
Well... up until the point I switched all my bills to online paying, I
was using more stamps per month than cokes from either a restaurant or
vending machine. Thus, for me, rising postage rates were a greater
nuisance than rising coke rates.
Matthew Russotto
Jette Goldie <boss...@scotlandmail.com> wrote:
>Gary Woods wrote:>> And what do you suggest as an alternative for the ever-widening gap in
>> health care, in this the only major industrialized nation where such is not
>> universal, and where our outcomes, despite the finest technology on the
>> planet, rank us with the third world?
>>
>> Or, are the poor that way because they deserve no better, and aren't
>> _really_ human?
>>
>
>
>"Are there no prisons? No workhouses?"
Funny, that was about my response to the so-called "individual
mandate" included in the bill. Not that it's directly analagous, but
that the idea that the problem of people without medical insurance was
best solved by making it illegal not to have medical insurance was the
sort of thing Scrooge would come up with.
--
The problem with socialism is there's always
someone with less ability and more need.
Matthew Russotto
MajorOz <Maj...@centurytel.net> wrote:
>
>I certainly will..........when the senate fails to pass it.
My guess is that eventually the only major change which ends up
passing will be the individual mandate. They'll claim to remove
restrictions on pre-existing conditions and such, but there will be
enough loopholes to drive Aetna's headquarters through. The only
beneficiaries will be insurance companies, and whatever new bureaucratic
agencies are created.
Wes Struebing
<Maj...@centurytel.net> wrote:
<snip>
>
>The next year, after the legislature was "purged", a bill was passed,
>overwhelmingly, that required highway funds to be used ONLY for
>highway projects -- what a concept.
>
;-)
Wes Struebing
<Maj...@centurytel.net> wrote:
><snip>
>
>On a percentage basis, compared to UPS, FedEx, and the Yellow Guys.
>Of course, as will become true in medicine, nobody but government is
>allowed to deliver letters.
>
'Cept you have it bass-ackwards, Oz. USPS (and only the USPS) was
ALWAY set up to deliver post (letters...). it didn't come upon the
organization by the creep that you seem so convinced will come.
And healthcare is abut the paying for medicine, not the medical care
itself. The gummint is not and never had been in the medical field.
Even single-payer, which by now everyone here know I would favor does
NOT concern itself with medicine - only the paying for it. (unless
you believe in death panels)
You analogy is a red herring, Oz.
Wes Struebing
wrote:
<snip>
>
>Well... up until the point I switched all my bills to online paying, I
>was using more stamps per month than cokes from either a restaurant or
>vending machine. Thus, for me, rising postage rates were a greater
>nuisance than rising coke rates.
>
<grins>
You and me both, Chris! BOYC? (not a Coke; we can't afford 'em!)
(oh, and btw, I've gone BACK to paying my COBRA by paper check and
snail mail. Even though it is more efficient AND cheaper for BoA (I
think that's who the administrator is) to accept EFT, they charge
$2.00 for the privilege of doing so. Sorry; $0.44 is still cheaper
than $2.00)
Hanging Jester
news:hIudnf_WVM4J9WbX...@speakeasy.net:
> In article
> <1d064781-e186-49b3...@m26g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
> MajorOz <Maj...@centurytel.net> wrote:
>>
>>I certainly will..........when the senate fails to pass it.
>
> My guess is that eventually the only major change which ends up
> passing will be the individual mandate. They'll claim to remove
> restrictions on pre-existing conditions and such, but there will be
> enough loopholes to drive Aetna's headquarters through. The only
> beneficiaries will be insurance companies, and whatever new
> bureaucratic agencies are created.
>
The individual mandate that requires all individuals to carry health
insurance is a bit precarious on it's constitutionality. (Not that
consideration ever seems to stop Congress.)
~ Jester
Chris Zakes
caused Wes Struebing <str...@comcast.net> to write:
>On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 07:17:54 -0600, Chris Zakes <dont...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
><snip>
>>
>>Well... up until the point I switched all my bills to online paying, I
>>was using more stamps per month than cokes from either a restaurant or
>>vending machine. Thus, for me, rising postage rates were a greater
>>nuisance than rising coke rates.
>>
><grins>
>
>You and me both, Chris! BOYC? (not a Coke; we can't afford 'em!)
>
>(oh, and btw, I've gone BACK to paying my COBRA by paper check and
>snail mail. Even though it is more efficient AND cheaper for BoA (I
>think that's who the administrator is) to accept EFT, they charge
>$2.00 for the privilege of doing so. Sorry; $0.44 is still cheaper
>than $2.00)
>--
>
>Wes Struebing
Yeah, I wouldn't pay for that kind of "privilege", either. Where I
live, the city charges $1.50 to do that with water bills. Fortunately,
they have a drop-box right outside of City Hall, and this town is
small enough that running by there isn't a big deal.
-Chirs Zakes
MajorOz
> On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 21:47:59 -0800 (PST), MajorOz
>
> ><snip>
>
> >On a percentage basis, compared to UPS, FedEx, and the Yellow Guys.
> >Of course, as will become true in medicine, nobody but government is
> >allowed to deliver letters.
>
> 'Cept you have it bass-ackwards, Oz. USPS (and only the USPS) was
> ALWAY set up to deliver post (letters...). it didn't come upon the
> organization by the creep that you seem so convinced will come.
I realize that. My point is that, by law, they have no competitors in
that area.
> And healthcare is abut the paying for medicine, not the medical care
> itself.
AT LAST ................... Someone else here can tell the
difference.
Thanx, Wes, for acceding to a point I have been making here for weeks.
So............access to health care, itself, is NOT, and never has,
been denied.
All the discussion is about who pays.
As long as the votes are there, is is always easier to get someone
else to pay.
cheers
oz
Clothahump
> Sent anything by FedEx recently? Or hired a courier? Funny
> thing, in this real world, prices go up. But even so, the USPS
> is the cheapest and most reliable option.
Cheapest, perhaps. Reliable, not by a long shot. One of the reasons
that I went to online bill paying was the simple fact that if I went to
the letter box and dropping in a half dozen envelopes, pre-addressed
with correct postage, I could pretty much guarantee that at least one of
them would not make it to its destination. And almost all of those
pre-addressed envelopes were going to P. O. Boxes.
Wes Struebing
(agreeing...)
You weren't supposed to notice the man behind the curtain. Shame on
you.
Wes Struebing
<Maj...@centurytel.net> wrote:
>On Nov 11, 8:34�pm, Wes Struebing <str...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 21:47:59 -0800 (PST), MajorOz
>>
>> <Majo...@centurytel.net> wrote:
>> ><snip>
>>
>> >On a percentage basis, compared to UPS, FedEx, and the Yellow Guys.
>> >Of course, as will become true in medicine, nobody but government is
>> >allowed to deliver letters.
>>
>> 'Cept you have it bass-ackwards, Oz. �USPS (and only the USPS) was
>> ALWAY set up to deliver post (letters...). �it didn't come upon the
>> organization by the creep that you seem so convinced will come.
>
>I realize that. My point is that, by law, they have no competitors in
>that area.
>
>
True, but it was set up that way initially. No "slippery slope."
Whereas the public options are set up the other way around (even the
really, really bad ones) - to provide competition, and because the
federal plan can't collude with the private companies to price fix,
costs should stabilize lower and not rise as fast as 31% a year (in
some cases)
>> And healthcare is abut the paying for medicine, not the medical care
>> itself. �
>
>AT LAST ................... Someone else here can tell the
>difference.
>Thanx, Wes, for acceding to a point I have been making here for weeks.
I guess I missed it, too...<G>
>
>So............access to health care, itself, is NOT, and never has,
>been denied.
I'm not sure how you got that out of what I was saying, but...
Who was saying it was denied, except by the insurance companies,
either indirectly by raising rates exorbitantly, and directly by
denying claims and raising the bogeyman of "pre-existing conditions"?
Sounds like denial of care, to me.
What I was saying is the government would be getting into the provider
of funds for medical care. It would not be in the medical care
business itself, which is what your previous statement seemed to be
saying.
Oh, and oz - since this is a HOT BUTTON topic for many people
(including me - remembering some of my previous posts) - I sincerely
thank you for keeping this civil and on point!
We may not agree (D'OH!), but permit me to purchase your next BOC.
The TheatrElf
news:hdhuke$84q$1...@aioe.org:
Of course, you can't send ANYTHING by UPS or FEDEX to a PO box.
--
Xjahn
The TheatrElf
http://manormaniac.blogspot.com/
Computers, like cats, can operate crossdimensionally; the trick
is in getting them to do what you want.
MajorOz
> Clothahump <hookkic...@yahoo.com> wrote innews:hdhuke$84q$1...@aioe.org:
>
> > The TheatrElf wrote:
> >> Sent anything by FedEx recently? Or hired a courier? Funny
> >> thing, in this real world, prices go up. But even so, the
> >> USPS is the cheapest and most reliable option.
> > =========================
> > Cheapest, perhaps. Reliable, not by a long shot. One of the
> > reasons that I went to online bill paying was the simple fact
> > that if I went to the letter box and dropping in a half dozen
> > envelopes, pre-addressed with correct postage, I could pretty
> > much guarantee that at least one of them would not make it to
> > its destination. And almost all of those pre-addressed
> > envelopes were going to P. O. Boxes.
>
> Of course, you can't send ANYTHING by UPS or FEDEX to a PO box.
Only because the USPS won't let them.
Competition, donchaknow
cheers
oz, who seems to recall that they can send them to mailbox forwarders,
or private ones, like MB 'R US
Matthew Russotto
It's just a tax on not having insurance. It'll never make it to the
Robed 9, let alone be shot down.