Prop 187 to Be Revived for 2000 Ballot
ipm
By SCOTT LINDLAW Associated Press Writer
SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) -- A sponsor of a voter-approved measure that
sought to deny public services to illegal immigrants said he is likely
to revive the proposal for the November 2000 ballot.
``This was and still is a serious problem that needs to be looked at
objectively,'' Ron Prince said Wednesday. He was chairman of the
Proposition 187 movement that California voters passed in 1994 with
nearly 60 percent of the vote.
Proposition 187 would have barred the state from providing public
services such as education and non-emergency health care to illegal
immigrants.
Prince's 2000 initiative would force California to conform with a
provision of federal immigration law that forbids state and local
governments from providing benefits to illegal immigrants. The same
law permits such state or local benefits only if a state passes a law
allowing them.
Prince's 2000 initiative would forbid the Legislature from approving
any such law.
Prince is also preparing a companion initiative meant to protect the
measure against the legal maneuvering that doomed Proposition 187 this
year.
Prince has asked lawyers to scrutinize both measures to see whether
they would stand up in court. He said he is ``99 percent sure'' he
will proceed with both.
Proposition 187 had been ruled unconstitutional and in July, the
administration of Democratic Gov. Gray Davis agreed with civil rights
groups that the state should stop defending the measure.
With no one to defend the measure in court, the last nail in
Proposition
187's coffin was driven behind closed doors during a court-sanctioned
mediation session.
Lt. Gov. Cruz Bustamante, a Proposition 187 critic, said he would
oppose
any similar measure. The governor will not comment before reviewing the
proposed initiatives, spokeswoman Hilary McLean said.
--
For White Unity,
ipm
Western Imperative Network http://www.usaor.net/users/ipm/
National Alliance http://www.natvan.com
Jafo
None of those who participated in the destruction of the proposition
passed by a 60% majority of the voters have given any valid reasons
why they believe the state's taxpayers should be forced to finance the
breaking of their own laws by supporting those who are here illegally.
The costs of supporting illegals should be divided among those who
would oppose such a measure as this. Let 'em back up their do-gooder
ideas with their own money for a change, instead of ours.
--
___________________________________________________________
Jafo http://www.cheetah.net/jafo
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
The Devil's Advocate©
>The costs of supporting illegals should be divided among those who
>would oppose such a measure as this. Let 'em back up their do-gooder
>ideas with their own money for a change, instead of ours.
Agreed. If only that were legally possible. Every person that wants
illegal immigrants to have free education and health care should have
to foot the bill for it. Either that, or we send a bill to the
illegal's country of origin.
regards,
The Devil's Advocate
"Your Warrant Is In Question"
ipm
> On Fri, 22 Oct 1999 08:12:18 -0700, Jafo <jafo@_cheetah.net> wrote:
>
> >The costs of supporting illegals should be divided among those who
> >would oppose such a measure as this. Let 'em back up their do-gooder
> >ideas with their own money for a change, instead of ours.
>
> Agreed. If only that were legally possible. Every person that wants
> illegal immigrants to have free education and health care should have
> to foot the bill for it. Either that, or we send a bill to the
> illegal's country of origin.
Will wonders never cease? DA actually said something I agree with. Next
thing you know he'll be petitioning Pierce for an exception so he can join
the National Alliance. How about it? You could be some kind of a NA Black
Auxilliary.
Johnny Yen
The Devil's Advocate© <REMOVE-THI...@excite.com> wrote in article
<3811d8b...@news.earthlink.net>...
> On Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:55:19 -0400, ipm <i...@usaor.net> wrote:
>
> >Will wonders never cease? DA actually said something I agree with. Next
> >thing you know he'll be petitioning Pierce for an exception so he can
join
> >the National Alliance.
I am sure that many members of the National Alliance have African ancestry.
The Daily Telegraph, hardly a left wing or liberal paper, stated recently
that
twenty percent of the white population of the UK has recent black ancestry.
The statistics on how many American whites have black ancestry ranges
from 25 percent ( NAACP ) to 45 percent ( Time magazine ), but since the
number of blacks is greater, it would have to be higher than that in
Britain.
How about it?
>
> Don't hold your breath on that one. Btw, what would Pierce do with
> that mulatto Neo-Nazi in Sweden that was in the news?
Johnny Yen
The Devil's Advocate© <REMOVE-THI...@excite.com> wrote in article
<38148eca...@news.earthlink.net>...
> On Fri, 22 Oct 1999 08:12:18 -0700, Jafo <jafo@_cheetah.net> wrote:
>
> >The costs of supporting illegals should be divided among those who
> >would oppose such a measure as this. Let 'em back up their do-gooder
> >ideas with their own money for a change, instead of ours.
>
> Agreed. If only that were legally possible. Every person that wants
> illegal immigrants to have free education and health care should have
> to foot the bill for it. Either that, or we send a bill to the
> illegal's country of origin.
Or how about merely making it possible for them to pay for it ?
The reality of the matter is though that 187 would not have stopped
a single illegal from coming to California. Wilson even admitted as
much. Wilson insisted that his support was conditional upon no
punishment for employers of illegals. The enforcement of 187
would cost the state a considerable amount of money and not
do anything to deter illegals from coming. The only thing that
would work would be to give jail sentences to the employers.
If no one will give them jobs, they will not come and many will
go back voluntarily. I admit that 187 would have gotten my support
if rewritten ( although I was not in the state at the time ),
however lets not fool ourselves into thinking that in its present form
it will do anything to solve this problem.
dot...@dot.com
> would oppose such a measure as this. Let 'em back up their do-gooder
> ideas with their own money for a change, instead of ours.
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> Jafo http://www.cheetah.net/jafo
> ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
Instead of your very altruistic solution, why don't we just
deduct your portion of those espences from your yearly tax bill?
Let's see, would a reduction in your state taxes of, say $.25
keep you quiet? Am I overstating your taxable income? Well
then, perhaps $.15 then. There now. Don't you feel better?
The Devil's Advocate©
>Will wonders never cease? DA actually said something I agree with. Next
>thing you know he'll be petitioning Pierce for an exception so he can join
>the National Alliance. How about it?
Don't hold your breath on that one. Btw, what would Pierce do with
that mulatto Neo-Nazi in Sweden that was in the news?
Johnny Yen
Wotan <wo...@deathpenguin.com> wrote in article
<7uqpj8$d44$1...@nnrp02.primenet.com>...
> In article <01bf1cdf$3cbd8000$593fd3cf@default>,
> Johnny Yen <beat...@loop.com> posted, then thought about:
>
> >
> >
> >The Devil's Advocate© <REMOVE-THI...@excite.com> wrote in
article
> ><3811d8b...@news.earthlink.net>...
> >> On Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:55:19 -0400, ipm <i...@usaor.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Will wonders never cease? DA actually said something I agree with.
Next
> >> >thing you know he'll be petitioning Pierce for an exception so he can
> >join
> >> >the National Alliance.
> >
> >I am sure that many members of the National Alliance have African
ancestry.
> >The Daily Telegraph, hardly a left wing or liberal paper, stated
recently
> >that
> >twenty percent of the white population of the UK has recent black
ancestry.
> >The statistics on how many American whites have black ancestry ranges
> >from 25 percent ( NAACP ) to 45 percent ( Time magazine ), but since the
> >number of blacks is greater, it would have to be higher than that in
> >Britain.
> >
> >How about it?
>
> You are wrong.
>
> Until a couple of decades ago, you did not see interacial relationships.
The hippie era in California was more than a couple of decades ago by now.
" A couple of decades ago " Reagan was elected president. Anyways, those
unions suffered prejudice but did exist.
Only a fool would think that there was less black descent in white America
than white Britain. There would have to be.
My figures are proven.
> And those that existed were subject to EXTREME predujice from both sides.
Yes.
> And still are.
>
By idiots, which unfortunately abound in the US like few other countries.
> --
> Alone, adj.:
> In bad company.
> -- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary"
>
The Devil's Advocate©
wrote:
>I am sure that many members of the National Alliance have African ancestry.
>The Daily Telegraph, hardly a left wing or liberal paper, stated recently
>that
>twenty percent of the white population of the UK has recent black ancestry.
>The statistics on how many American whites have black ancestry ranges
>from 25 percent ( NAACP ) to 45 percent ( Time magazine ), but since the
>number of blacks is greater, it would have to be higher than that in
>Britain.
Where could I find this article?
The Devil's Advocate©
>You are wrong.
>
>Until a couple of decades ago, you did not see interacial relationships.
There have always been interracial relationships. Going back to Thomas
Jefferson and Sally Hemmings. There just happen to be more now.
>And those that existed were subject to EXTREME predujice from both sides.
>
>And still are.
Depends on what races are involved and what part of the country they
reside. In L.A. or S.F. no big deal, in New Orleans or Birmingham, big
deal.
The Devil's Advocate©
>Until the sixties, interracial relationships pretty much meant
>black/white.
Actually that's true even know. Say the words "interracial
relationship" and nobody thinks of say, a Vietnamese with a Mexican,
or and E. Indian with a black. It's black and white. That's so stupid.
Johnny Yen
The Devil's Advocate© <REMOVE-THI...@excite.com> wrote in article
<38112b4...@news.earthlink.net>...
Try checking on the website of the Telegraph. I believe this was in the 3
October issue
( the first sunday in October ). I saw the copy of the newspaper - which
was actually
the Sunday " Torygraph " as it is nicknamed in England - at the newsstand.
I am pretty
sure it was Oct. and not Sept. IT definately was not earlier than that.
Johnny Yen
Wotan <wo...@deathpenguin.com> wrote in article
<7urkcr$ice$1...@nnrp02.primenet.com>...
> In article <01bf1ced$a687ae80$593fd3cf@default>,
> Johnny Yen <beat...@loop.com> posted, then thought about:
>
> >
> >
> >Wotan <wo...@deathpenguin.com> wrote in article
> ><7uqpj8$d44$1...@nnrp02.primenet.com>...
> >> In article <01bf1cdf$3cbd8000$593fd3cf@default>,
> >> Johnny Yen <beat...@loop.com> posted, then thought about:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >The Devil's Advocate© <REMOVE-THI...@excite.com> wrote in
> >article
> >> ><3811d8b...@news.earthlink.net>...
> >> >> On Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:55:19 -0400, ipm <i...@usaor.net> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >Will wonders never cease? DA actually said something I agree with.
> >Next
> >> >> >thing you know he'll be petitioning Pierce for an exception so he
can
> >> >join
> >> >> >the National Alliance.
> >> >
> >> >I am sure that many members of the National Alliance have African
> >ancestry.
> >> >The Daily Telegraph, hardly a left wing or liberal paper, stated
> >recently
> >> >that
> >> >twenty percent of the white population of the UK has recent black
> >ancestry.
> >> >The statistics on how many American whites have black ancestry ranges
> >> >from 25 percent ( NAACP ) to 45 percent ( Time magazine ), but since
the
> >> >number of blacks is greater, it would have to be higher than that in
> >> >Britain.
> >> >
> >> >How about it?
> >>
> >> You are wrong.
> >>
> >> Until a couple of decades ago, you did not see interacial
relationships.
> >
> >The hippie era in California was more than a couple of decades ago by
now.
> >" A couple of decades ago " Reagan was elected president. Anyways, those
> >unions suffered prejudice but did exist.
>
> And the unions were fruitful and lasted, thus resulting in the 25-45% of
> whites in the US with a "PC group member" in the woodpile.
>
> >Only a fool would think that there was less black descent in white
America
> >than white Britain. There would have to be.
>
> No, there wouldn't.
Think about it. With more blacks in the USA than Britain, there
would have to be more sexual contact with blacks in the USA
than in Britain. Duh.
>
> >My figures are proven.
>
> How? By us telepathically scanning your thoughts to determine your
> version of reality?
See above.
Free clue, the census dept counts the offspring of
> interracial relationships as members of the minority if one parent is
> white.
Generally these people are considered minority or white depending on
how they consider themselves.
Which means the census dept would be supporting your claim and
> whites would be almost extinct in the US. Neither is true.
The census department bases its claim on how people consider
themselves. BTW there is increasing demand for a mixed race
category. It will be interesting to see how this affects the numbers
of official blacks and official whites. While black orgs are most
against this, thinking it will cut down the number of " blacks "
in the US, I think it will also affect the white population in a
similar fashion.
> >> And those that existed were subject to EXTREME predujice from both
sides.
> >Yes.
> >
> >> And still are.
> >>
> >By idiots, which unfortunately abound in the US like few other
countries.
>
> No, the idiots seem prevalent world-wide. Take yourself as an example.
Wrong, because I have nothing against race mixing. I have done it myself
and would do it again in a second.
--
> Today's scientific question is: What in the world is electricity?
>
> And where does it go after it leaves the toaster?
> -- Dave Barry, "What is Electricity?"
>
ipm
> The Devil's Advocate© <REMOVE-THI...@excite.com> wrote in article
> <3811d8b...@news.earthlink.net>...
> > On Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:55:19 -0400, ipm <i...@usaor.net> wrote:
> >
> > >Will wonders never cease? DA actually said something I agree with. Next
> > >thing you know he'll be petitioning Pierce for an exception so he can
> join
> > >the National Alliance.
>
> I am sure that many members of the National Alliance have African ancestry.
Total nonsense.
ipm
> On Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:55:19 -0400, ipm <i...@usaor.net> wrote:
>
> >Will wonders never cease? DA actually said something I agree with. Next
> >thing you know he'll be petitioning Pierce for an exception so he can join
> >the National Alliance. How about it?
>
> Don't hold your breath on that one. Btw, what would Pierce do with
> that mulatto Neo-Nazi in Sweden that was in the news?
I see this every now and then - an obvious non-white who wants to be White so
bad that he becomes a White nationalist. Go figure. Most of the time its
someone who's part Asian or mestizo. Its like the tiny number of Jews I hear
about who really admire Hitler or have a fetish for Nazi paraphernalia. Believe
it or not, but I've heard that a few Jews actually collect Nazi stuff. That's
really unusual because I really think that many people who collect it have a
fascination with NS Germany or are secret Nazis themselves. Not so much that
they are thinking politically about Jews or race, but only that if they had
been alive in Germany during that time they would have been enthusiastic Hitler
supporters.
I can't explain why some people do what they do.
ipm
> Only a fool would think that there was less black descent in white America
> than white Britain. There would have to be.
No, you're wrong because in the US any person with perceptible Black genes was
automatically considered Black. Thus, we have a lot of White genes among
Blacks, but almost none among Whites. Besides that, many White people's
ancestors came from Europe within the last 100 years and can trace all of their
ancestors to Europe and/or have photos of them. My wife, for example, actually
knew all her immigrant ancestors. There's zero chance of Black genes.
ipm
> The Devil's Advocate© <REMOVE-THI...@excite.com> wrote in article
> <38112b4...@news.earthlink.net>...
> > On Fri, 22 Oct 1999 22:40:52 GMT, "Johnny Yen" <beat...@loop.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >I am sure that many members of the National Alliance have African
> ancestry.
> > >The Daily Telegraph, hardly a left wing or liberal paper, stated
> recently
> > >that
> > >twenty percent of the white population of the UK has recent black
> ancestry.
> > >The statistics on how many American whites have black ancestry ranges
> > >from 25 percent ( NAACP ) to 45 percent ( Time magazine ), but since the
> > >number of blacks is greater, it would have to be higher than that in
> > >Britain.
> >
> > Where could I find this article?
>
> Try checking on the website of the Telegraph. I believe this was in the 3
> October issue
> ( the first sunday in October ). I saw the copy of the newspaper - which
> was actually
> the Sunday " Torygraph " as it is nicknamed in England - at the newsstand.
> I am pretty
> sure it was Oct. and not Sept. IT definately was not earlier than that.
I don't have to read this. Anyone who says that anything but a microscopic
portion of the US White population has any significant Blacks ancestry is
dreaming.
ipm
> On 23 Oct 1999 06:27:32 GMT, wo...@deathpenguin.com (Wotan) wrote:
>
> >Until the sixties, interracial relationships pretty much meant
> >black/white.
>
> Actually that's true even know. Say the words "interracial
> relationship" and nobody thinks of say, a Vietnamese with a Mexican,
> or and E. Indian with a black. It's black and white. That's so stupid.
Not really. You're only considering that from the perspective of Whites.
The breeding habits of other races really doesn't interest us. I mean a
Mexican/Chinese person can call himself Asian or Mestizo, we don't care.
The only people we care about are those which want to call themselves
White.
Johnny Yen
ipm <i...@usaor.net> wrote in article <38122250...@usaor.net>...
> "The Devil's Advocate©" wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:55:19 -0400, ipm <i...@usaor.net> wrote:
> >
> > >Will wonders never cease? DA actually said something I agree with.
Next
> > >thing you know he'll be petitioning Pierce for an exception so he can
join
> > >the National Alliance. How about it?
> >
> > Don't hold your breath on that one. Btw, what would Pierce do with
> > that mulatto Neo-Nazi in Sweden that was in the news?
>
> I see this every now and then - an obvious non-white who wants to be
White so
> bad that he becomes a White nationalist. Go figure. Most of the time its
> someone who's part Asian or mestizo. Its like the tiny number of Jews I
hear
> about who really admire Hitler or have a fetish for Nazi paraphernalia.
An article about Bloods and Crips in Compton stated that Hitler was the
most admired historical figure by black gang members.
Believe
> it or not, but I've heard that a few Jews actually collect Nazi stuff.
Stanley Kubrick was an admirer of Nazi aesthetics. Actually I can
understand how someone could admire fascist architecture.
That's
> really unusual because I really think that many people who collect it
have a
> fascination with NS Germany or are secret Nazis themselves. Not so much
that
> they are thinking politically about Jews or race,
As stated, the Nazi aesthetic is attractive to some. Familiar at all with
Laibach
and the Neue Slowenische Kunst movement around them ?
but only that if they had
> been alive in Germany during that time they would have been enthusiastic
Hitler
> supporters.
Ingmar Bergman admitted to having been a Nazi until he heard about the
amount
of killing that went on in the holocaust. Vincent Price's daughter stated
that her
father had been an admirer of Nazi art and aesthetics, and prior to the war
actually had some Nazi sympathies. However, once the war started, he came
to his senses about the nature of the ideology, according to her. I am not
sure
whether to believe this, though, as it is all too reminiscent of that Errol
Flynn
garbage. I could believe though that Price, being well rounded in the arts,
would
have admired absolute idealism and Nazi aesthetics. I admit much of the
architecture is powerful. However, Nazi painting tends to be crap for the
same
reason that Soviet Socialist Realist painting is crap. Painting was strait
jacketed
by the absurd desire of the regime for " wholesomeness ". I saw an exhibit
in
Berlin about the arts in that city from 1900 to 1945, and the decline in
quality
in painting as a result of Nazi mandated aesthetics was very apparent.
> I can't explain why some people do what they do.
>
> --
> For White Unity,
Something you know nothing about...
> ipm
>
> Western Imperative Network http://www.lonelyplanet.com
>
Johnny Yen
ipm <i...@usaor.net> wrote in article <38122460...@usaor.net>...
> Johnny Yen wrote:
>
> > Only a fool would think that there was less black descent in white
America
> > than white Britain. There would have to be.
>
> No, you're wrong because in the US any person with perceptible Black
genes was
> automatically considered Black.
There was considerable " passing " that went on and you know it.
Thus, we have a lot of White genes among
> Blacks, but almost none among Whites
False. It is only logical that white America would contain more black
ancestry
than white Britain, since there were more blacks in the US.
. Besides that, many White people's
> ancestors came from Europe within the last 100 years and can trace all of
their
> ancestors to Europe
See the article in the 3 Oct. Sunday Telegraph, that 20 percent of all
English
whites have recent black ancestry. This happened in all European countries
that had colonies.
and/or have photos of them. My wife, for example, actually
> knew all her immigrant ancestors. There's zero chance of Black genes.
You never know. What about Pushkin and Dumas ?
> --
> For White Unity,
> ipm
>
The Devil's Advocate©
wrote:
>There was considerable " passing " that went on and you know it.
True. I have one uncle that can pass with no problem. His skin is even
pinkish-white. Yet he has dark-skinned half-sisters.
The Devil's Advocate©
>I don't have to read this. Anyone who says that anything but a microscopic
>portion of the US White population has any significant Blacks ancestry is
>dreaming.
The truth hurts, eh? When you don't like the facts, then close the
book and walk away from them before you learn what you don't want to
learn.
The Devil's Advocate©
wrote:
>Berlin about the arts in that city from 1900 to 1945, and the decline in
>quality
>in painting as a result of Nazi mandated aesthetics was very apparent.
Wassily Kandinsky, one of the first true abstract artists was put out
of commision in Nazi Germany. I don't see what was degenerate about
his art.
>> Western Imperative Network http://www.lonelyplanet.com
hehheh.
Byker
The Devil's AdvocateŠ wrote
>On Sat, 23 Oct 1999 17:17:15 -0400, ipm <i...@usaor.net> wrote:
>
>>I don't have to read this. Anyone who says that anything but a microscopic
>>portion of the US White population has any significant Blacks ancestry is
>>dreaming.
>
>The truth hurts, eh? When you don't like the facts, then close the
>book and walk away from them before you learn what you don't want to
>learn.
Were that the case, even though someone looked in the mirror and saw a White
person, he could go down to the employment office and get a do-nothing,
polish-a-chair-with-his-ass government job under Affirmative Action.
If a White person has a distant black ancestor from 10 generations and 200
years back, he/she can "pass." At least all the White decendants had the
sense to keep marrying Whites in order to breed out the blackness.
The Devil's Advocate©
>Tell me, do you fuck your dog? Until the middle of this century thats
>what whites who lived near blacks compared sex too.
I never heard of Thomas Jefferson referred to as one who engaged in
bestiality.
The Devil's Advocate©
>
>Free clue: Most offspring of black/white relationships aren't white.
For that matter, they aren't black either.
The Devil's Advocate©
wrote:
>
>What the hell do you two think these children are?
Mulattos. Both black and white.
>White bigots and
>some other normal whites say there not white; Black don't accept them
>as being Black.
You're dead wrong. Most blacks accept mulattos as black. They always
have. It's whites that are so racist as to reject a white that is so
much as 10% black. That's despicable.
>It's not that abstract or difficult -- an easy Black
>and White issue. To say they are not Black (or White) is like telling
>a Irish-English person he's not of Irish blood or vise versa.
They are something of a new race if you want to say that. And a
generally good-looking one at that, e.g., Vanessa Williams, Halle
Berry, Sade, et al.
Jafo
>Wild Rice wrote:
>>What the hell do you two think these children are?
>Mulattos. Both black and white.
Homo Sapiens.
ipm
> On Sat, 23 Oct 1999 21:21:16 GMT, "Johnny Yen" <beat...@loop.com>
> wrote:
>
> >There was considerable " passing " that went on and you know it.
>
> True. I have one uncle that can pass with no problem. His skin is even
> pinkish-white. Yet he has dark-skinned half-sisters.
Skin color isn't the only way to tell a negro. I've seen albino Blacks and
they sure don't look like a White person. They look like exactly what they
are: a Black person with white skin.
ipm
> On 23 Oct 1999 23:37:59 GMT, wo...@deathpenguin.com (Wotan) wrote:
>
> >Tell me, do you fuck your dog? Until the middle of this century thats
> >what whites who lived near blacks compared sex too.
>
> I never heard of Thomas Jefferson referred to as one who engaged in
> bestiality.
And you can keep repeating that lie until doomsday and that still won't
make it true.
ipm
> On Sat, 23 Oct 1999 17:17:15 -0400, ipm <i...@usaor.net> wrote:
>
> >I don't have to read this. Anyone who says that anything but a microscopic
> >portion of the US White population has any significant Blacks ancestry is
> >dreaming.
>
> The truth hurts, eh? When you don't like the facts, then close the
> book and walk away from them before you learn what you don't want to
> learn.
There's to truth there amd you know it.
ipm
> On Sat, 23 Oct 1999 21:18:34 GMT, "Johnny Yen" <beat...@loop.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Berlin about the arts in that city from 1900 to 1945, and the decline in
> >quality
> >in painting as a result of Nazi mandated aesthetics was very apparent.
>
> Wassily Kandinsky, one of the first true abstract artists was put out
> of commision in Nazi Germany. I don't see what was degenerate about
> his art.
Probably just more Jewish garbage posing as art.
ipm
> I saw an exhibit
> in
> Berlin about the arts in that city from 1900 to 1945, and the decline in
> quality
> in painting as a result of Nazi mandated aesthetics was very apparent.
I suppose that depends on what you call art. I don't consider Picasso's trash
to be art.
The Devil's Advocate©
>Skin color isn't the only way to tell a negro. I've seen albino Blacks and
>they sure don't look like a White person. They look like exactly what they
>are: a Black person with white skin.
I know as well. When I said I have an uncle that can pass as white, I
mean he can pass as white. The first time I saw him at a family get
together a long time ago when I much younger, I asked my aunt, "Who is
that white man?" She laughed and said, "that's your uncle, boy!"
The Devil's Advocate©
>
>I suppose that depends on what you call art. I don't consider Picasso's trash
>to be art.
Because you are a philistine from the rural PA countryside. Get some
culture for a change and maybe you'll change your mind.
The Devil's Advocate©
>> I never heard of Thomas Jefferson referred to as one who engaged in
>> bestiality.
>
>And you can keep repeating that lie until doomsday and that still won't
>make it true.
Oh, so now you don't simply deny that they had kids, but deny that
they had a relationship altogether, you're a joke, IPM.
DR Bob Johnston
>No, you're wrong because in the US any person with perceptible Black genes
>was
>Blacks, but almost none among Whites. Besides that, many White people's
>ancestors came from Europe within the last 100 years and can trace all of
>their
>actually
>knew all her immigrant ancestors. There's zero chance of Black genes.
>
>For White Unity,
>ipm
>
>Western Imperative Network http://www.usaor.net/users/ipm/
>National Alliance http://www.natvan.com
Dream on, there were millions of black in Europe, many before even
any were in the United States. Germans went to settle in africa, and
married blacks there. Their children returned to Germany for school,
many stayed there to live, and married other Germans. Check your
DNA, if you dare, for records prove nothing in Europe, where those of
mixed blood, put down white in their records. Just because someone
CHOOSES to put white in records, does not mean they are "pure."
Go study your German/African History...
<a href="http://5thrct.com/bestwork2000.html">
>>>---------> Win a FREE Pentium III, on Me ! >
One each month.
You can win, many valuable prizes, weekly.
The next winner could be you...
This system is BUSY, just click refresh on errors.</a>
DR Bob Johnston
>False. It is only logical that white America would contain more black
>ancestry
>than white Britain, since there were more blacks in the US.
>
False. That is not logical at all. Africa was a colony of the British, for
decades before there were ever blacks in America. They had mixed
children, sent to schools in England, many passed for white...
Looks like you have not read much history, let alone history of the countries
who had colonies in Africa.... because of the colonization of Africa, there
probably is not a white in the world, who does not have black blood in them.
I may be a Scot, but would not swear there is none in me, and it is more likely
to be in anyone from England, France, Germany, Holland or any of those
adventurous souls who sailed to Africa, under one of their flags.
Even if no black ancestery, the Mongols invaded Europe, raping everywhere
they went. No German may admit their ancestors were raped by them, but
have a DNA test done, and you are highly likely to find mixed blood. And, that
does not even begin to figure in the Romans, and the mixed blood they brought
when they spread throughout Europe in that era...
DR Bob Johnston
>If a White person has a distant black ancestor from 10 generations and 200
>years back, he/she can "pass." At least all the White decendants had the
>sense to keep marrying Whites in order to breed out the blackness.
>
False. It is always there in the DNA... Sometime showing up generations
later... In my family for generations every child had black hair. Then a
redhead
was born, and the family talked behind the parents back, about the hanky panky
that must have gone on. Once when the child was 11, she was talking to her
great-grandfather, who told her of a distant relative who also had red hair.
No one
had happened to mention their suspitions to him.
When one of his sons questioned him, he got out an old family album, and
showed us the pictures... RED shows up as black, in black and white photo's
so no one in the family had realized, that relative had red hair....
The Devil's Advocate©
Johnston) wrote:
>Dream on, there were millions of black in Europe, many before even
>any were in the United States. Germans went to settle in africa, and
>married blacks there. Their children returned to Germany for school,
>many stayed there to live, and married other Germans. Check your
>DNA, if you dare, for records prove nothing in Europe, where those of
>mixed blood, put down white in their records. Just because someone
>CHOOSES to put white in records, does not mean they are "pure."
>
>Go study your German/African History...
Well put. Actually I myself didn't know that there so many blacks that
went to Europe to study during the colonial era.
The Devil's Advocate©
wrote:
>Albeit that term is technically correct. My point is that the term
>"Mulatto* takes on the appearance of a derogatory term (a mutation)
>Why put that jacket on a child.
I only use the word in the conventional sense. I'd never walk up and
call a mixed person a mulatto.
>They are still Black, although their
>completion is not as dark as Miles Davis.
If you don't call them white, then you have no right to call them
black either. And if the mulatto is product of an African-American and
a white, then they are just a little more white than African since
African-Americans are already 25% white. So that would mean the kids
would be something like 65% white or so. So how would 60-65%
Caucasion, 40-35% African make someone "black"?
>You indicated children with a Black and a White parent are NOT
>accepted as Black.
I didn't say this, I said just the opposite. Mixed "blacks" are
generally accepted as black by blacks. Whereas whites will not accept
someone as "white" even if they are only 15% black.
Jafo
>If you don't call them white, then you have no right to call them
>black either. And if the mulatto is product of an African-American and
>a white, then they are just a little more white than African since
>African-Americans are already 25% white. So that would mean the kids
>would be something like 65% white or so. So how would 60-65%
>Caucasion, 40-35% African make someone "black"?
I never understood this business of dividing people into groups and
figuring percentages of bloodlines and making a fuss over it. I like
to piss people off by writing "American" on any sort of form that asks
me for my racial identity.
--
___________________________________________________________
Jafo http://www.cheetah.net/jafo
"I'd rather know a cool black guy than an uncool white guy."
- Arthur Fonzarelli, "Happy Days"
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
Johnny Yen
The Devil's Advocate© <REMOVE-THI...@excite.com> wrote in article
<38163dd7...@news.earthlink.net>...
> On Sat, 23 Oct 1999 21:18:34 GMT, "Johnny Yen" <beat...@loop.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Berlin about the arts in that city from 1900 to 1945, and the decline in
> >quality
> >in painting as a result of Nazi mandated aesthetics was very apparent.
>
> Wassily Kandinsky, one of the first true abstract artists was put out
> of commision in Nazi Germany. I don't see what was degenerate about
> his art.
Kandinsky happened to be a slav. Hitler was just jealous of the talent
of others. Of course the Nazi crusade against " degenerate art " not
only hit the EXACT same targets as that of Stalin, but it even worked
against a loyal Nazi like Emil Nolde, who despite ideology was making
art that was " inaccessible to the Volk ". For everything bad one can
say about Mussolini, Franco, and Salazar, they did not try to shut down
artists based on the type of art they did ( while Salazar denounced
" modern " art, no action was ever taken except perhaps keeping the
educational level of his citizens down ). Latin Fascism generally
permitted modernism as long as it did not attack the symbols that
the regime held dear.
>
> >> Western Imperative Network http://www.lonelyplanet.com
>
> hehheh.
>
>
Johnny Yen
ipm <i...@usaor.net> wrote in article <3812FABE...@usaor.net>...
> "The Devil's Advocate©" wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 23 Oct 1999 21:18:34 GMT, "Johnny Yen" <beat...@loop.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Berlin about the arts in that city from 1900 to 1945, and the decline
in
> > >quality
> > >in painting as a result of Nazi mandated aesthetics was very apparent.
> >
> > Wassily Kandinsky, one of the first true abstract artists was put out
> > of commision in Nazi Germany. I don't see what was degenerate about
> > his art.
>
> Probably just more Jewish garbage posing as art.
No, Kandinsky was a Slav and that was reason enough for the Nazis to
do away with him. Hitler's crusade against modernism was identical to
that of Stalin. If there was any such thing as " degenerate " art at all
in early 1930s Germany, it was that which appeared in DER STURMER,
Of course its publisher, Julius Streicher, was not only on Hitler's side
but
had been a leading Nazi from early on so no action was taken against him.
Johnny Yen
ipm <i...@usaor.net> wrote in article <3812FA86...@usaor.net>...
> Johnny Yen wrote:
>
> > I saw an exhibit
> > in
> > Berlin about the arts in that city from 1900 to 1945, and the decline
in
> > quality
> > in painting as a result of Nazi mandated aesthetics was very apparent.
>
> I suppose that depends on what you call art. I don't consider Picasso's
trash
> to be art.
Picasso did some amazing work, and he also did some total crap. Anyone
with that long of a career is bound to. BTW, Mussolini did not declare war
on modernism like Hitler and Stalin, but instead promoted De Chirico as
a politically acceptable equivalent to Picasso. Unfortunately this is
something
that hurt the career of De Chirico ( and Salvador Dali, also accused of
fascist sympathies ) in the long run, despite the fact that he was really
apolitical ( as was Dali ). Mussolini was certainly evil but nowhere near
as loathsome as Hitler and Stalin.
>
> --
> For White Unity
" Against white unity " is more like it. Picasso was certainly
one of the great white men of the 20th c.
Johnny Yen
The Devil's Advocate© <REMOVE-THI...@excite.com> wrote in article
<381c509f...@news.earthlink.net>...
> On Sun, 24 Oct 1999 08:24:38 -0400, ipm <i...@usaor.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >I suppose that depends on what you call art. I don't consider Picasso's
trash
> >to be art.
>
> Because you are a philistine from the rural PA countryside. Get some
> culture for a change and maybe you'll change your mind.
When Roger hears the word culture he reaches for his revolver, hopefully
to do a Kurt Cobain.
Johnny Yen
Wild Rice <wild_...@hotmail.com> wrote in article
<slATONFNR3dwUb...@4ax.com>...
> On Sun, 24 Oct 1999 08:25:35 -0400, ipm <i...@usaor.net> wrote:
>
> >"The Devil's AdvocateŠ" wrote:
> >
> >> On Sat, 23 Oct 1999 21:18:34 GMT, "Johnny Yen" <beat...@loop.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Berlin about the arts in that city from 1900 to 1945, and the decline
in
> >> >quality
> >> >in painting as a result of Nazi mandated aesthetics was very
apparent.
> >>
> >> Wassily Kandinsky, one of the first true abstract artists was put out
> >> of commision in Nazi Germany. I don't see what was degenerate about
> >> his art.
> >
> >Probably just more Jewish garbage posing as art.
>
> *Garbage art* is also embedded in American art history. Take for
> example a whip firmly inserted up the orifice of a homosexual, urine
> and a crucifix placed in a bottle,
I would actually consider Mapplethorpe to be a genuine artist, not
exploitative at all. While I am not turned on by what turned him on
he did have a genuine talent which is more than one can say for
Andres Serrano and Damien Hirst. Or all those nords who make
art from dead animal carcasses. At the '95 Venice Bienniale it
seemed that all the Scandinavian pavilions were occupied by this
particular minifad. ( This is nothing against Scandinavians, but
just noticing a trend that seemed to be centred in that area. )
bizarre abstracts
Abstract expressionism has not aged well. I think you had to be there
to really get it. Years later it came out that Pollock, De Kooning, etc.
were being funded by the CIA. That might be a solution to the whole
controversy ocer the NEA - merge it with the CIA which does not have
to account for huge chunks of its budger.
, and ludicrous
> sculptures. Garbage art is not unique to any culture. Some of
> Picasso's sculptures that pass as art want to make me ROTFL.
Picasso certainly had his weaker moments, Anyone with that long of
a career has to.
>
> Wild Rice
>
> LUNAR VOLCANIC ACTIVITY?
> -----------------------
> Scientists have long believed that the moon is a completely dead
> world, but a new theory proposes that there may still be some
> volcanic activity. For 450 years, some astronomers have claimed
> to see transient lunar phenomena (TLP) on the surface. It was
> believed that TLPs were caused by meteor impacts, but this new
> theory proposes volcanic outgassing.
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_481000/481455.stm
> http://explorezone.com/archives/99_10/21_moon_mystery.htm
>
>
> LUNAR WATER SOURCES?
> --------------------
> Thanks to a $3 million grant from NASA, the Lunar Research
> Institute will continue to analyze data picked up by the Lunar
> Prospector before it was crashed into the moon in search of
> water. The data will allow the team to develop maps of the lunar
> surface, magnetic fields and areas of enriched hydrogen which
> could indicate water locations.
> http://www.spaceviews.com/1999/10/21b.html
>
>
>
>
Johnny Yen
ipm <i...@usaor.net> wrote in article <3812F95D...@usaor.net>...
> "The Devil's Advocate©" wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 23 Oct 1999 21:21:16 GMT, "Johnny Yen" <beat...@loop.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >There was considerable " passing " that went on and you know it.
> >
> > True. I have one uncle that can pass with no problem. His skin is even
> > pinkish-white. Yet he has dark-skinned half-sisters.
>
> Skin color isn't the only way to tell a negro. I've seen albino Blacks
and
> they sure don't look like a White person. They look like exactly what
they
> are: a Black person with white skin.
Charlie Feathers, a rockabilly/country singer who wrote songs for Elvis
Presley in the early part of his career, insists to this day that Elvis was
half black.
Johnny Yen
ipm <i...@usaor.net> wrote in article <3812F99E...@usaor.net>...
> "The Devil's Advocate©" wrote:
>
> > On 23 Oct 1999 23:37:59 GMT, wo...@deathpenguin.com (Wotan) wrote:
> >
> > >Tell me, do you fuck your dog? Until the middle of this century thats
> > >what whites who lived near blacks compared sex too.
> >
> > I never heard of Thomas Jefferson referred to as one who engaged in
> > bestiality.
>
> And you can keep repeating that lie until doomsday and that still won't
> make it true.
I have talked to a woman who is a history professor at Johns Hopkins and
who was formerly in charge of the Jefferson archive at the university of
Virginia. She is an expert on Jefferson, and she said that it is true
beyond
a doubt about Sally Hemmings. She is not saying this merely to be PC, as
she also said the rumours about Alexander Hamilton being part black are
complete crap. However, it is true that Hamilton was at least part Jewish.
Johnny Yen
Wotan <wo...@deathpenguin.com> wrote in article
<7utgnl$j97$1...@nnrp03.primenet.com>...
> In article <01bf1d87$6de3cf60$563fd3cf@default>,
> Johnny Yen <beat...@loop.com> posted, then thought about:
>
> >
> >
> >Wotan <wo...@deathpenguin.com> wrote in article
> ><7urkcr$ice$1...@nnrp02.primenet.com>...
> >> In article <01bf1ced$a687ae80$593fd3cf@default>,
> >> Johnny Yen <beat...@loop.com> posted, then thought about:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Wotan <wo...@deathpenguin.com> wrote in article
> >> ><7uqpj8$d44$1...@nnrp02.primenet.com>...
> >> >> In article <01bf1cdf$3cbd8000$593fd3cf@default>,
> >> >> Johnny Yen <beat...@loop.com> posted, then thought about:
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >The Devil's Advocate© <REMOVE-THI...@excite.com> wrote in
> >> >article
> >> >> ><3811d8b...@news.earthlink.net>...
> >> >> >> On Fri, 22 Oct 1999 16:55:19 -0400, ipm <i...@usaor.net> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >Will wonders never cease? DA actually said something I agree
with.
> >> >Next
> >> >> >> >thing you know he'll be petitioning Pierce for an exception so
he
> >can
> >> >> >join
> >> >> >> >the National Alliance.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >I am sure that many members of the National Alliance have African
> >> >ancestry.
> >> >> >The Daily Telegraph, hardly a left wing or liberal paper, stated
> >> >recently
> >> >> >that
> >> >> >twenty percent of the white population of the UK has recent black
> >> >ancestry.
> >> >> >The statistics on how many American whites have black ancestry
ranges
> >> >> >from 25 percent ( NAACP ) to 45 percent ( Time magazine ), but
since
> >the
> >> >> >number of blacks is greater, it would have to be higher than that
in
> >> >> >Britain.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >How about it?
> >> >>
> >> >> You are wrong.
> >> >>
> >> >> Until a couple of decades ago, you did not see interacial
> >relationships.
> >> >
> >> >The hippie era in California was more than a couple of decades ago by
> >now.
> >> >" A couple of decades ago " Reagan was elected president. Anyways,
those
> >> >unions suffered prejudice but did exist.
> >>
> >> And the unions were fruitful and lasted, thus resulting in the 25-45%
of
> >> whites in the US with a "PC group member" in the woodpile.
> >>
> >> >Only a fool would think that there was less black descent in white
> >America
> >> >than white Britain. There would have to be.
> >>
> >> No, there wouldn't.
> >
> >Think about it. With more blacks in the USA than Britain, there
> >would have to be more sexual contact with blacks in the USA
> >than in Britain. Duh.
>
> Not in a culture, on both sides, where it was just not considered
> acceptable. Duh.
Like it wasn't covered up ? Do you honestly think that such events
are always reported accurately ? There are people who for their
whole lives think that their fathers are the men who were married
to their mothers at the time of pregnancy, and then at advanced
ages find out differently. This is also not taking into account
adoptions and the like...
>
> >> >My figures are proven.
> >>
> >> How? By us telepathically scanning your thoughts to determine your
> >> version of reality?
> >
> >See above.
>
> Provide some cites. Issue, page, article. Or are we supposed to be
> telepathically scanning for this from you?
It was on the front page of the Sunday Telegraph, 3 Oct. ( a major
British daily paper known for being extremely right wing )
> > Free clue, the census dept counts the offspring of
> >> interracial relationships as members of the minority if one parent is
> >> white.
> >
> >Generally these people are considered minority or white depending on
> >how they consider themselves.
>
> Free clue: Most offspring of black/white relationships aren't white.
Nor black. You are what you consider yourself to be.
> > Which means the census dept would be supporting your claim and
> >> whites would be almost extinct in the US. Neither is true.
> >
> >The census department bases its claim on how people consider
> >themselves. BTW there is increasing demand for a mixed race
> >category.
>
> No, its a demand for things like "Mexican-American", Italian-American,
> etc.
Italian Americans are white. Mexican Americans come in a variety of
racial groups, per the general population of Mexico.
> >> >> And those that existed were subject to EXTREME predujice from both
> >sides.
> >> >Yes.
> >> >
> >> >> And still are.
> >> >>
> >> >By idiots, which unfortunately abound in the US like few other
> >countries.
> >>
> >> No, the idiots seem prevalent world-wide. Take yourself as an
example.
> >
> >Wrong, because I have nothing against race mixing. I have done it myself
> >and would do it again in a second.
>
> I didn't comment on your stance on race mixing. I said you were an
idiot.
To claim despite all logic to the contrary that there was no race mixing is
sheer idiocy.
--
> Stop searching. Happiness is right next to you.
>
Johnny Yen
Wild Rice <wild_...@hotmail.com> wrote in article
<kVATOPK2hRHD7I...@4ax.com>...
> On Sun, 24 Oct 1999 08:22:09 -0400, ipm <i...@usaor.net> wrote:
>
> >"The Devil's Advocate©" wrote:
> >
> >> On Sat, 23 Oct 1999 17:17:15 -0400, ipm <i...@usaor.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >I don't have to read this. Anyone who says that anything but a
microscopic
> >> >portion of the US White population has any significant Blacks
ancestry is
> >> >dreaming.
> >>
> >> The truth hurts, eh? When you don't like the facts, then close the
> >> book and walk away from them before you learn what you don't want to
> >> learn.
>
> If memory serves me, Ipm has done this. I recall a post several years
> back where Ipm asserted he had removed mention of MLK in his home
> (seems he didn't want his children to be brainwashed by the
> accomplishments men such as MLK, Mohandas K. Gandhi and Cesar Chávez.
There is a new book out that states that many of the demeaning allegations
against MLK were spread by the KGB, as the Soviets did not like him and
his message either. King and his philosophy were anathema to totalitarians
and dictators of all sorts, as all of us who had a brain knew already. The
book is called " The Sword and the Shield, The Mitrokhin Archive and the
Secret History of the KGB ", by Christopher Andrew and Vasili Mitrokhin
( a KGB defector ). Therefore, McKinney and his butt buddies are in the
position of spreading Soviet propaganda years after the USSR has ceased
to exist.
>
> >There's to truth there amd you know it.
>
Johnny Yen
The Devil's Advocate© <REMOVE-THI...@excite.com> wrote in article
<38148a80...@news.earthlink.net>...
England had quite a few. Don't know so much about the other
countries, although there are records of there definately being
a few black colonials who came to the home country for a variety
of reasons in France, Spain, Germany, the Netherlands - really
every country that had colonies.
As I have pointed out before, Dumas and Pushkin were
both mixed race. Pushkin's grandfather was the Ethiopian
ambassador to the Czar's court.
I used to think that the tradition of depicting Othello as black
originated with Paul Robeson - however later on I had read about
a black Shakespearean actor in 19th century England named
Ira Aldridge establishing this tradition.
Byker
The Devil's AdvocateŠ wrote in message <381486ef...@news.earthlink.net
>On 23 Oct 1999 23:35:17 GMT, wo...@deathpenguin.com (Wotan) wrote:
>
>>
>>Free clue: Most offspring of black/white relationships aren't white.
>
Then why, despite his mixed ancestry ("Cablinasian"), is Tiger Woods a
poster boy for Jesse Jackson and his ilk?
Johnny Yen
Byker <by...@do-rag.net> wrote in article
<s18l9r...@corp.supernews.com>...
That has to do with Nike ads and other media publicity. Only in a country
with lingering racial attitudes as fucked up as the USA would he be
considered black. Fortunately in this area things seem to be improving
slightly.
>
>
>
>
hc23hc
>
> Like Jafo post, Homo
Whatever you say, Ben.
.
.
.
hc23hc
>
> Until a couple of decades ago, you did not see interacial relationships.
>
You notice things like that, yet remain willfully blind to institutionalized
discrimination against minorities. Weird, Wotan. Really weird.
.
.
.
Jafo
>Whatever you say, Ben.
To complete Wild Rice's comment:
>> Like Jafo post, Homo sapiens.
A little slip of the keyboard's "delete" button there, eh, Slick?
hc23hc
>
> "Johnny Yen" <beat...@loop.com> wrote:
> >I would actually consider Mapplethorpe to be a genuine artist, not
> >exploitative at all.
>
> exploitative? Insert a bull whip firmly up the ass of a male model
> and pass that photograph off as art is *exploitative*. You drank to
> much expresso in those Net coffeehouses you posted from.
You're putting 'way too much thought into this bullwhip thing, Ben.
Haven't seen you quite this focussed on an issue in ages...
.
.
.
The Devil's Advocate©
wrote:
>You're assuming your figures fit all. All DNA is not equal, and blood
>lines are not that predictable.
What's this supposed to mean?
Jafo
>Wild Rice wrote:
>> Maplethorpe was a punk. Now, now, you are saying Maplethorpe was NOT
>> exploitative? Insert a bull whip firmly up the ass of a male model
>> and pass that photograph off as art is *exploitative*. You drank to
>> much expresso in those Net coffeehouses you posted from.
>You're putting 'way too much thought into this bullwhip thing, Ben.
>
>Haven't seen you quite this focussed on an issue in ages...
Mention anything like this in any context whatsoever and Slick will be
along soon after. It's inevitable.
hc23hc
>
> Slick <hc23hc> wrote:
>
> >Wild Rice wrote:
> >> Maplethorpe was a punk. Now, now, you are saying Maplethorpe was NOT
> >> exploitative? Insert a bull whip firmly up the ass of a male model
> >> and pass that photograph off as art is *exploitative*. You drank to
> >> much expresso in those Net coffeehouses you posted from.
>
> >You're putting 'way too much thought into this bullwhip thing, Ben.
> >
> >Haven't seen you quite this focussed on an issue in ages...
>
> Mention anything like this in any context whatsoever and Slick will be
> along soon after. It's inevitable.
You've got context problems up the mineshaft, old boy.
Ben's already into his third round of art appreciation for that particular
'piece'. Jafo, but you're much too full of bullwhip to notice how deeply
moving it was for him, too. Were you both trying to put your past behind
you at the same time ?
.
.
.
Jafo
My admiration is boundless for those, like yourself, who prove my
points even better than I can. :)
ipm
> ipm <i...@usaor.net> wrote in article <3812F95D...@usaor.net>...
> > "The Devil's AdvocateŠ" wrote:
> >
> > > On Sat, 23 Oct 1999 21:21:16 GMT, "Johnny Yen" <beat...@loop.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >There was considerable " passing " that went on and you know it.
> > >
> > > True. I have one uncle that can pass with no problem. His skin is even
> > > pinkish-white. Yet he has dark-skinned half-sisters.
> >
> > Skin color isn't the only way to tell a negro. I've seen albino Blacks
> and
> > they sure don't look like a White person. They look like exactly what
> they
> > are: a Black person with white skin.
>
> Charlie Feathers, a rockabilly/country singer who wrote songs for Elvis
> Presley in the early part of his career, insists to this day that Elvis was
> half black.
I don't believe that. As I recall there's been pictures of his parents
published from time to time. Neither looked Black.
--
Regards,
ipm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless
minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds..." -- Samuel Adams
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
ipm
> On Sun, 24 Oct 1999 08:20:46 -0400, ipm <i...@usaor.net> wrote:
>
> >> I never heard of Thomas Jefferson referred to as one who engaged in
> >> bestiality.
> >
> >And you can keep repeating that lie until doomsday and that still won't
> >make it true.
>
> Oh, so now you don't simply deny that they had kids, but deny that
> they had a relationship altogether, you're a joke, IPM.
Look, there's no conclusive proof that any of those Hemmingses were his
offspring. They could have been that of several other Jefferson males.
That's all the proof there is.
ipm
> On Sun, 24 Oct 1999 08:22:09 -0400, ipm <i...@usaor.net> wrote:
>
> >"The Devil's Advocate©" wrote:
> >
> >> On Sat, 23 Oct 1999 17:17:15 -0400, ipm <i...@usaor.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >I don't have to read this. Anyone who says that anything but a microscopic
> >> >portion of the US White population has any significant Blacks ancestry is
> >> >dreaming.
> >>
> >> The truth hurts, eh? When you don't like the facts, then close the
> >> book and walk away from them before you learn what you don't want to
> >> learn.
>
> If memory serves me, Ipm has done this. I recall a post several years
> back where Ipm asserted he had removed mention of MLK in his home
> (seems he didn't want his children to be brainwashed by the
> accomplishments men such as MLK, Mohandas K. Gandhi and Cesar Chávez.
I don't think I actually said that, but around here MLK is regarded about like a
common thief or bum. After all, I'm concerned with the truth and the truth is that
MLK was a liar, thief, abuser of women, a drunk, and a communist. Those are all
documented facts, but if you want to look up to trash like that then I can't stop
you.
Jafo
>Look, there's no conclusive proof that any of those Hemmingses were his
>offspring. They could have been that of several other Jefferson males.
>That's all the proof there is.
Aside from idle historical interest, what difference does it make?
The Devil's Advocate©
wrote:
>Charlie Feathers, a rockabilly/country singer who wrote songs for Elvis
>Presley in the early part of his career, insists to this day that Elvis was
>half black.
Who knows? There certainly is black in the white genepool. You can
never breed it out. It's like pouring a drop of chocolate syrup in a
glass of milk. You can keep pouring more milk in the glass and
lightening it, but there will always be a drop of chocolate in the
glass. Racial purity is impossible.
Johnny Yen
Wild Rice <wild_...@hotmail.com> wrote in article
<+BoVOOc4=q36gGzZH8J=bysXow=s...@4ax.com>...
> On Mon, 25 Oct 1999 00:45:05 GMT, "Johnny Yen" <beat...@loop.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> >Wild Rice <wild_...@hotmail.com> wrote in article
>
> >> *Garbage art* is also embedded in American art history. Take for
> >> example a whip firmly inserted up the orifice of a homosexual, urine
> >> and a crucifix placed in a bottle,
> >
> >I would actually consider Mapplethorpe to be a genuine artist, not
> >exploitative at all.
>
> Maplethorpe was a punk.
Yes, he was one of the original figures in the Punk Rock scene,
having been the boyfriend of Patti Smith etc.
Now, now, you are saying Maplethorpe was NOT
> exploitative? Insert a bull whip firmly up the ass of a male model
> and pass that photograph off as art is *exploitative*.
Mapplethorpe was a genuine artist. I am not turned on by his
sexual interests, but I will say he was not doing his work just
to be exploitative like Andres Serrano. I went to art school
and you didn't so there...
You drank to
> much expresso in those Net coffeehouses you posted from.
>
>
> >...which is more than one can say for...all those nords who make
> >art from dead animal carcasses. At the '95 Venice Bienniale it
> >seemed that all the Scandinavian pavilions were occupied by this
> >particular minifad. ( This is nothing against Scandinavians, but
> >just noticing a trend that seemed to be centred in that area. )
>
> ;^| They dress cloddish and are disheveled is that right?
I have noticed that too many Scandinavian women dress poorly.
However this has nothing to do with their worth as human beings.
/And there are exceptions.
> The women are unattractive is that right?
Most, but that does not mean they are without their good qualities.
And there are exceptions ( Lena Olin being one... )
> You've never made love to a Scandinavians female, right?
Yes I have, almost 20 years ago.
>
> Wild Rice
>
>
> BACK IN TIME WITH GAMA RAYS
> ---------------------------
> Huntsville - October 22, 1999 - Gamma-ray bursts and
> their X-ray and optical afterglows have surpassed
> quasars as the most distant probes of the early
> universe, according to new calculations performed
> by University of Chicago astronomers.
> http://www.spacedaily.com/spacecast/news/gamma-99a.html
>
Johnny Yen
ipm <i...@usaor.net> wrote in article <381669F3...@usaor.net>...
> Johnny Yen wrote:
>
> > ipm <i...@usaor.net> wrote in article <3812F95D...@usaor.net>...
> > > "The Devil's AdvocateŠ" wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Sat, 23 Oct 1999 21:21:16 GMT, "Johnny Yen" <beat...@loop.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >There was considerable " passing " that went on and you know it.
> > > >
> > > > True. I have one uncle that can pass with no problem. His skin is
even
> > > > pinkish-white. Yet he has dark-skinned half-sisters.
> > >
> > > Skin color isn't the only way to tell a negro. I've seen albino
Blacks
> > and
> > > they sure don't look like a White person. They look like exactly what
> > they
> > > are: a Black person with white skin.
> >
> > Charlie Feathers, a rockabilly/country singer who wrote songs for Elvis
> > Presley in the early part of his career, insists to this day that Elvis
was
> > half black.
>
> I don't believe that. As I recall there's been pictures of his parents
> published from time to time.
There have been many pictures published of Vernon and Gladys Presley.
However, Feathers - who worked with Elvis in the Sun Records days -
insists that Vernon Presley was not the real father.
Neither looked Black.
The Pervert
>
> On Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:05:34 -0400, ipm <i...@usaor.net> wrote:
>
> >Wild Rice wrote:
>
> <Deleted text>
>
> >> If memory serves me, Ipm has done this. I recall a post several years
> >> back where Ipm asserted he had removed mention of MLK in his home
> >> (seems he didn't want his children to be brainwashed by the
> >> accomplishments men such as MLK, Mohandas K. Gandhi and Cesar Chávez.
> >
> >I don't think I actually said that, but around here MLK is regarded about like a
> >common thief or bum. After all, I'm concerned with the truth and the truth is that
> >MLK was a liar, thief, abuser of women, a drunk, and a communist. Those are all
> >documented facts, but if you want to look up to trash like that then I can't stop
> >you.
>
> include child molester, axe murderer, heroin addiction and S&M freak.
>
> Wild Rice
And probably litterbug, as well. You know how those commie, axe
murdering (how do you kill an axe?) heroin addicted, child molesting S&M
freaks are when it comes to tossing their Goobers boxes away
indiscriminantly.
Johnny Yen
Wild Rice <wild_...@hotmail.com> wrote in article
<yEYXODupIJYrcy...@4ax.com>...
> On Wed, 27 Oct 1999 16:35:27 GMT, "Johnny Yen" <beat...@loop.com>
> wrote:
>
> <Deleted text>
>
> >> >...which is more than one can say for...all those nords who make
> >> >art from dead animal carcasses. At the '95 Venice Bienniale it
> >> >seemed that all the Scandinavian pavilions were occupied by this
> >> >particular minifad. ( This is nothing against Scandinavians, but
> >> >just noticing a trend that seemed to be centred in that area. )
> >>
> >> ;^| They dress cloddish and are disheveled is that right?
> >
> >I have noticed that too many Scandinavian women dress poorly.
> >However this has nothing to do with their worth as human beings.
> >/And there are exceptions.
>
> So they dress poorly.
Many, but not all.
>
> >> The women are unattractive is that right?
> >
> >Most, but that does not mean they are without their good qualities.
> >And there are exceptions ( Lena Olin being one... )
>
> So they are ugly.
Many, not all. THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS !
> >> You've never made love to a Scandinavians female, right?
> >
> >Yes I have, almost 20 years ago.
>
> Congratulations Mr. Yen. I hope you didn't force yourself upon on her?
It was the other way around.
> Wild Rice
>
> NEW SOLAR TROJANS OF EARTH
> --------------------------
> London - October, 26 1999 - We will never see it but the
> Earth has at least one other natural satellite. In
> discovering several new types of orbital motion, a team
> of British scientists has shown that the gravitational
> forces of our planet and of the Sun allow our planet to
> capture passing asteroids. One of them is named 'Cruithne',
> and can be considered -- at least for the next 5000 years
> -- as 'Earth's second Moon'.
> http://www.spacedaily.com/spacecast/news/asteroid-99k.html
>
> NASA RECONSIDERS MARS LANDING SPOT
> ------------------------
> Recent photographs of Mars' polar regions by the Global Surveyor
> has forced the Mars Polar Lander team to reconsider locations to
> land their spacecraft. Initially thought to be gently rolling hills,
> the photographs have revealed a series of slopes and mesas.
> http://cnn.com/TECH/space/9910/22/downlinks/index.html
> http://www.msnbc.com/news/304520.asp
>
Johnny Yen
Wild Rice <wild_...@hotmail.com> wrote in article
<uTUXOE1tDZHOvQ...@4ax.com>...
> On Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:05:34 -0400, ipm <i...@usaor.net> wrote:
>
> >Wild Rice wrote:
>
> <Deleted text>
>
> >> If memory serves me, Ipm has done this. I recall a post several years
> >> back where Ipm asserted he had removed mention of MLK in his home
> >> (seems he didn't want his children to be brainwashed by the
> >> accomplishments men such as MLK, Mohandas K. Gandhi and Cesar Chávez.
> >
> >I don't think I actually said that, but around here MLK is regarded
about like a
> >common thief or bum.
...honoured ?
After all, I'm concerned with the truth and the truth
...according to the KGB
is that
> >MLK was a liar, thief, abuser of women,
I never knew that MLK was really Adolph Hitler.
a drunk,
What's next ? You;re going to accuse him of being a
habitual spitter on the sidewalk ?
and a communist
The communists made up the charges that you state.
. Those are all
> >documented facts
The documented facts are that those charges were made
up by the KGB and by Gay Edgar Hoover.
, but if you want to look up to trash like that then I can't stop
> >you.
>
> That's inclusive enough; but are you absolutely sure you don't want to
> include child molester, axe murderer, heroin addiction and S&M freak.
No, because then he would be describing Hitler ( albeit hitler
was into cocaine while Goering was more into opiates )
E 5th RCT
>lines are not that predictable.
>
>>>accepted as Black.
>
As proof of family ties in DNA are passed down thru the Mother,
a child with a white father, black mother, would show up as black.
Where a child with a black father, and white mother, would show as white.
>You're assuming your figures fit all. All DNA is not equal, and blood
>lines are not that predictable.
<a href="http://www.alladvantage.com/go.asp?refid=BMK-998">
AllAdvantage pays $.50 an hour to surf -- $0.10/hour for friends
and -- $0.05 for their friends for 4 levels. Don't think it's worth it?
I made $753 this month, some made over $1000 </a>
HM
----------
In article <01bf209a$00a92240$4d3fd3cf@default>, "Johnny Yen" <beat...@loop.com> wrote:
>Wild Rice <wild_...@hotmail.com> wrote in article
>> On Mon, 25 Oct 1999 00:45:05 GMT, "Johnny Yen" <beat...@loop.com>
>> wrote:
>> >Wild Rice <wild_...@hotmail.com> wrote in article
>>
>> >> *Garbage art* is also embedded in American art history. Take for
>> >> example a whip firmly inserted up the orifice of a homosexual, urine
>> >> and a crucifix placed in a bottle,
>> >
>> >I would actually consider Mapplethorpe to be a genuine artist, not
>> >exploitative at all.
>> Maplethorpe was a punk.
>Yes, he was one of the original figures in the Punk Rock scene,
>having been the boyfriend of Patti Smith etc.
The fact that Mapplethorpe was said to be the "boyfriend" of
Patti Smith simply does not give any genuine credit to his skill
as a photographer.
He did, for example, photograph the cover to P. Smith's "Easter,"
yet does this really show any talent? I would say not.
>> Now, now, you are saying Maplethorpe was NOT
>> exploitative? Insert a bull whip firmly up the ass of a male model
>> and pass that photograph off as art is *exploitative*.
>Mapplethorpe was a genuine artist. I am not turned on by his
>sexual interests, but I will say he was not doing his work just
>to be exploitative like Andres Serrano. I went to art school
>and you didn't so there...
Art is exploitive when people are required to subsidize it, by force
of arms.
BTW- Eastside Jenney and Southside Sue want something new. :)
Regards,
HM
Western Imperative Network
http://www.usaor.net/users/ipm
Wake Up or Die
http://www.wakeupordie.com
Politically Incorrect
http://www.sound.net/~fenix/PI-index.html
Stormfront
http://www.stormfront.org
Yggdrasil's Library
http://www.ddc.net/ygg
Civil War Two
http://www.civilwartwo.com/
Real History- For a Change!
http://www.fpp.co.uk/
wayne
IOW, you're full of shit...
--
Wayne AKA Blackie!
http://home.surfree.com/Huntington/blackiesplace/blackie.htm
Visit my web page for info about free web pages and more
E 5th RCT <e5t...@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:19991029120931...@ng-fq1.aol.com...
ipm
> On Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:05:34 -0400, ipm <i...@usaor.net> wrote:
>
> >Wild Rice wrote:
>
> <Deleted text>
>
> >> If memory serves me, Ipm has done this. I recall a post several years
> >> back where Ipm asserted he had removed mention of MLK in his home
> >> (seems he didn't want his children to be brainwashed by the
> >> accomplishments men such as MLK, Mohandas K. Gandhi and Cesar Chávez.
> >
> >I don't think I actually said that, but around here MLK is regarded about like a
> >common thief or bum. After all, I'm concerned with the truth and the truth is that
> >MLK was a liar, thief, abuser of women, a drunk, and a communist. Those are all
> >documented facts, but if you want to look up to trash like that then I can't stop
> >you.
>
> That's inclusive enough; but are you absolutely sure you don't want to
> include child molester, axe murderer, heroin addiction and S&M freak.
No, because I know of no evidence any of those charges are true.
ipm
> Wild Rice <wild_...@hotmail.com> wrote in article
> <uTUXOE1tDZHOvQ...@4ax.com>...
> > On Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:05:34 -0400, ipm <i...@usaor.net> wrote:
>
> and a communist
>
> The communists made up the charges that you state.
Hmm, I suppose the commies somehow forced him to have, Stan Levison, a know
communist as his friend, speech writer, and financial advisor?
> . Those are all
> > >documented facts
>
> The documented facts are that those charges were made
> up by the KGB and by Gay Edgar Hoover.
Why do you think they sealed the records on King for 50 years? All night
boozed-up sex parties, prostitutes, etc. Its all on the tapes made by the FBI.
If they released that info I think even the Blacks would disown him out of
embarrassment.
The Devil's Advocate©
>Why do you think they sealed the records on King for 50 years? All night
>boozed-up sex parties, prostitutes, etc. Its all on the tapes made by the FBI.
>If they released that info I think even the Blacks would disown him out of
>embarrassment.
I wouldn't. What the hell's wrong with having a boozed-up sex party?
Sounds like something I wouldn't mind going to. Don't know about
prostitutes, but I can assure you that many good men in history have
paid for it when away from home. How many military officers have gone
to prostitutes but come back heroes after serving the country? You'll
have to do better than this.
The Devil's Advocate©
>For an preacher, a supposed "man of God?" The mere fact that you asked that
>question shows just how far you'll go to justify immorality as long as the
>perpetrator is politically correct and the right color.
He wasn't my preacher or religious leader, he was a civil rights
advocate first and foremost.
regards,
The Devil's Advocate @ earthlink.net
"Don't be fooled by cheap imitations!"
ipm
> On Sat, 30 Oct 1999 08:14:48 -0400, ipm <i...@usaor.net> wrote:
>
> >Why do you think they sealed the records on King for 50 years? All night
> >boozed-up sex parties, prostitutes, etc. Its all on the tapes made by the FBI.
> >If they released that info I think even the Blacks would disown him out of
> >embarrassment.
>
> I wouldn't. What the hell's wrong with having a boozed-up sex party?
For an preacher, a supposed "man of God?" The mere fact that you asked that
question shows just how far you'll go to justify immorality as long as the
perpetrator is politically correct and the right color.
--
Regards,
ipm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"The likelihood of Steven Spielberg ever making a film about the Cheka
killing Cossack girls with sledgehammers is remote indeed. Marxism will
never have a Holocaust chained to its ankles." - from a review by Lawrence Osborne
ipm
> On Sat, 30 Oct 1999 08:14:48 -0400, ipm <i...@usaor.net> wrote:
>
> <Deleted text>
>
> >>
> >> The documented facts are that those charges were made up by the KGB and by
> >Gay Edgar Hoover.
> >
> >Why do you think they sealed the records on King for 50 years? All night
> >boozed-up sex parties, prostitutes, etc. Its all on the tapes made by the FBI.
> >If they released that info I think even the Blacks would disown him out of
> >embarrassment.
>
> Yes King philander around. But King did a lot to make life much
> easier for Black families. Unlike those in the white racist movement,
> King didn't call for violence.
He deliberately instigated it everywhere he went.
ipm
"The Devil's AdvocateŠ" wrote:
> On Mon, 01 Nov 1999 12:31:52 -0500, ipm <i...@usaor.net> wrote:
>
> >For an preacher, a supposed "man of God?" The mere fact that you asked that
> >question shows just how far you'll go to justify immorality as long as the
> >perpetrator is politically correct and the right color.
>
> He wasn't my preacher or religious leader, he was a civil rights
> advocate first and foremost.
That has to be the all time most pathetic rationalization I've heard yet on this
Martin "Lucifer" King bum.
Johnny Yen
ipm <i...@usaor.net> wrote in article <381DCE88...@usaor.net>...
> "The Devil's Advocate©" wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 30 Oct 1999 08:14:48 -0400, ipm <i...@usaor.net> wrote:
> >
> > >Why do you think they sealed the records on King for 50 years? All
night
> > >boozed-up sex parties, prostitutes, etc. Its all on the tapes made by
the FBI.
> > >If they released that info I think even the Blacks would disown him
out of
> > >embarrassment.
> >
> > I wouldn't. What the hell's wrong with having a boozed-up sex party?
>
> For an preacher, a supposed "man of God?"
King was not Christ - he was a human being. Human beings of all
stations in life have their foibles and idiosyncracies. King as a man
was entitled to his physical pleasures. He was not a monk who made
a vow of celibacy and poverty. IPM shows his lack of knowledge of
non-Catholic religions.
The mere fact that you asked that
> question shows just how far you'll go to justify immorality as long as
the
> perpetrator is politically correct and the right color.
Immorality is in the eye of the beholder. Immorality is not having
sexual tastes that all sources indicate were perfectly normal, but
preaching hatred and racial supremacy. Adolph Hitler was a sexual
degenerate, but not King. Then again, IPM is known to classify
people as either homosexuals or " womanisers ". In his world,one
is damned if they do and damned if they don't. Notice IPM has
said nothing about the bisexuality of George Lincoln Rockwell
and Hermann Goering. the homosexuality of Joseph McCarthy, Ernst
Rohm, Horst Wessel and a good part of the Nazi leadership, nor
the coprophilia and paedophilia of Adolph Hitler...
> --
> Regards,
> ipm
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> "The likelihood of Steven Spielberg ever making a film about the Cheka
> killing Cossack girls with sledgehammers is remote indeed. Marxism will
> never have a Holocaust chained to its ankles." - from a review by
Lawrence Osborne
I don't know who Osborne is but he is wrong. The Soviet holocaust is widely
acknowledged.
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Western Imperative Network http://www.nizkor.org
> National Alliance http://www.wiesenthal.org
>
>
>
ipm
Johnny Yen wrote:
> ipm <i...@usaor.net> wrote in article <381DCE88...@usaor.net>...
> > "The Devil's AdvocateŠ" wrote:
> >
> > > On Sat, 30 Oct 1999 08:14:48 -0400, ipm <i...@usaor.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > >Why do you think they sealed the records on King for 50 years? All
> night
> > > >boozed-up sex parties, prostitutes, etc. Its all on the tapes made by
> the FBI.
> > > >If they released that info I think even the Blacks would disown him
> out of
> > > >embarrassment.
> > >
> > > I wouldn't. What the hell's wrong with having a boozed-up sex party?
> >
> > For an preacher, a supposed "man of God?"
>
> King was not Christ - he was a human being. Human beings of all
> stations in life have their foibles and idiosyncracies. King as a man
> was entitled to his physical pleasures. He was not a monk who made
> a vow of celibacy and poverty. IPM shows his lack of knowledge of
> non-Catholic religions.
Name one Christian demonination that doesn't consider flagrant adultery a
serious sin, especially for a supposed "reverend."
> The mere fact that you asked that
> > question shows just how far you'll go to justify immorality as long as
> the
> > perpetrator is politically correct and the right color.
>
> Immorality is in the eye of the beholder. Immorality is not having
> sexual tastes that all sources indicate were perfectly normal, but
> preaching hatred and racial supremacy. Adolph Hitler was a sexual
> degenerate, but not King.
Provide proof of Hitler's sexual degeneracy.
> Then again, IPM is known to classify
> people as either homosexuals or " womanisers ". In his world,one
> is damned if they do and damned if they don't. Notice IPM has
> said nothing about the bisexuality of George Lincoln Rockwell
> and Hermann Goering.
Provide proof of any bisexuality of either of these men.
> the homosexuality of Joseph McCarthy,
Provide proof of his homosexuality.
> Ernst Rohm,
Rohm was a queer. Big deal. Everybody knows that.
> Horst Wessel and a good part of the Nazi leadership, nor
> the coprophilia and paedophilia of Adolph Hitler...
Provide proof for these ridiculous claims or shut up.
--
Regards,
ipm
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"The likelihood of Steven Spielberg ever making a film about the Cheka
killing Cossack girls with sledgehammers is remote indeed. Marxism will
never have a Holocaust chained to its ankles." - from a review by Lawrence
Osborne
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Michael Ejercito
> "The Devil's Advocate©" wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 01 Nov 1999 12:31:52 -0500, ipm <i...@usaor.net> wrote:
> >
> > >For an preacher, a supposed "man of God?" The mere fact that you asked that
> > >question shows just how far you'll go to justify immorality as long as the
> > >perpetrator is politically correct and the right color.
> >
> > He wasn't my preacher or religious leader, he was a civil rights
> > advocate first and foremost.
>
> That has to be the all time most pathetic rationalization I've heard yet
on this
> Martin "Lucifer" King bum.
Are you denying the service King gave to his country by marching for
civil rights?
Michael
Q: How do you separate the men from the boys in the National Alliance?
A: Use a crowbar.
ipm
Michael Ejercito wrote:
> In article <381E0E66...@usaor.net>, ipm <i...@usaor.net> wrote:
>
> > That has to be the all time most pathetic rationalization I've heard yet
> on this
> > Martin "Lucifer" King bum.
> Are you denying the service King gave to his country by marching for
> civil rights?
Yes, he's even a disgrace to the Black race. But if the Blacks want to comemorate a
lying, degenerate, communist bum like King, I don't care, but don't expect me to do
it. Nonetheless, I would think Blacks could find another Black person with more
moral character than him.
ipm
Wild Rice wrote:
> On Mon, 01 Nov 1999 12:32:57 -0500, ipm <i...@usaor.net> wrote:
>
> >Wild Rice wrote:
>
> >> Yes King philander around. But King did a lot to make life much
> >> easier for Black families. Unlike those in the white racist movement,
> >> King didn't call for violence.
> >
> >He deliberately instigated it everywhere he went.
>
> You don't deny the white racist call for violence. That is a prudent.
> As far as King instigating violence, the status quo in the South was
> afraid of the Blacks for wanting to make the world a better place.
He instigated violence in Chicago. That's not in the South.
> Because of this, State and local police became very uncivilized. They
> drew their swords, and they made war. To say King is responsible for
> that is like saying Randy Weaver deliberately instigated his daughter
> and wife's assassination.
No, because King needed violence. He planned on it. When King led a march through an
all-White neighborhood, he knew there would be trouble, just like if the KKK tried to
do the same in an all-Black neighborhood. Then who's instigating the violence?
Michael Ejercito
> Michael Ejercito wrote:
>
> > In article <381E0E66...@usaor.net>, ipm <i...@usaor.net> wrote:
> >
> > > That has to be the all time most pathetic rationalization I've heard yet
> > on this
> > > Martin "Lucifer" King bum.
> > Are you denying the service King gave to his country by marching for
> > civil rights?
>
> Yes, he's even a disgrace to the Black race. But if the Blacks want to
comemorate a
> lying, degenerate, communist bum like King, I don't care, but don't
expect me to do
> it. Nonetheless, I would think Blacks could find another Black person
with more
> moral character than him.
You still believce J. Edgar Hoover's wild claims that King was a communist?
Hoover was a well-known racist,just like you.
HM
----------
In article <oDMbOFp8uPkocY...@4ax.com>, Wild Rice
<wild_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Yes King philander around. But King did a lot to make life much
>easier for Black families.
There are more blacks on welfare, in prison, addicted to drugs,
involved in criminal gang related activity then there were before the
"achievements" of the "Civil Rights Movement. Despite decades of
racially integrated schools, and the fact that many school districts are
run by blacks, more blacks (and others) that graduate high school are
illiterate and unemployable.
Far from improving the lives of black families, the expansion of the
welfare state that has taken place since the 1960's has made black
families an endangered institution, and has in no way led to the
perpetuation of an underclass to be exploited by others for their own
political advantage.
This is no accident- this was the intent of King's asociates, such as
Baynard Rustin and Jewish behind the scenes "handler" Stanley Levinson-
both Communists.
>Unlike those in the white racist movement, King didn't call for violence.
King's "non-violent" image is a carefully crafted myth. His organization
included advocates and praticioners of violence, as King's only admonition
was that they pratice "tactical non-violence."
This tactical non-violence often meant provoking others to commit violent
acts, so that King's supporters could be potrayed by the media as innocent
victims- which the media was eager to do. While whites were unorganized,
and without effective political leadership, a few took the bait and
did themselves a disservice by commiting violent acts. In some cases, they
did so because they were encouraged, aided and abetted to do so by
government agent provacateurs.
Please click on: http://www.amren.com/article1.htm for a look at the real
history of what happened in the history of the "Civil Rights" movement.
For more information on "Martin Luther" (not his real name) King, click on:
http://www.mlking.org/
BTW- Just what white nationalist organization is there that advocates
members or supporters to engage in criminal conduct? Could it be that
you are simply repeating what you hear from the mass media, and not
checking out the facts for yourself?
Think it over. How has the cause of white nationalism been advanced by
any of the widely publicized acts of terrorism in the last few years?
HM
----------
In article <j2UfOHgaQnrMDU...@4ax.com>, Wild Rice
<wild_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> You don't deny the white racist call for violence. That is a prudent.
> As far as King instigating violence, the status quo in the South was
> afraid of the Blacks for wanting to make the world a better place.
Where has the political empowerment of Blacks resulted in less crime,
less corruption, better education, and improved health?
> Because of this, State and local police became very uncivilized. They
> drew their swords, and they made war.
Just how many civil rights demonstrators were killed by state and local
police? Are sticks weapons of war, or are you just being overly dramatic?
>To say King is responsible for that is like saying Randy Weaver
> deliberately instigated his daughter and wife's assassination.
That kite don't fly. Randy Weaver was never involved in any political
movement, and simply wanted a life where he and his family could live
and simply be left alone by the government. He is a very unpretentious and
plain spoken man, and freely admits that he made many mistakes in his life.
Get a copy of "The Federal Siege at Ruby Ridge-In Our Own Words, by Randy
and Sara Weaver for more information. Consider visiting a gun show, or
"Preparedness Expo," where he might have a table sometime, and taking a few
minutes to speak with him.
Of course, to some, simply wanting the government to leave them alone is
akin to sedition. :)
HM
----------
In article <mejercit-021...@134.139.69.164>, meje...@csulb.edu
(Michael Ejercito) wrote:
> Are you denying the service King gave to his country by marching for
> civil rights?
It was on Labor Day, 1957, that King attended a meeting in order to plan
a series of demonstrations and riots in the Southern states.
This meeting was held at the bizarre "Highlander Folk School," which was a
Communist front, founded by Communist Party organizers. In addition to
the schools founders, other organizers of this meeting included Abner
Berry and James Dumbbrowski, both open Communist Party members.
The first of King's famous marches on Washington was organized by Baynard
Rustin, a Communist, following his trip to Moscow. The Communist Party
Newspaper, the Daily Worker, openly stated that this march was a Communist
project.
Just a few reasons to cast doubt on King's "service to his country."
Except, of course, to those who would prefer a nation based on the
ideas espoused by Bill Clinton and Strobe Talbot, rather than those
of Washington or Jefferson.
HM
----------
In article <3821276...@news.earthlink.net>,
>I wouldn't. What the hell's wrong with having a boozed-up sex party?
Many consider it inappropriate behavior for one who claims to be a religious
leader. But, then King was never really a "reverand," was he?
Where did the money for his drunken orgies come from? King embezzled
substantial amounts of money that was contributed to the "civil rights
movement" to pay for his liquor and hooker tab. Arguably, money that
might not have been contributed if the donars knew what it was really
being used for.
It was not this, however, it was King's association with known Communists,
Stanley Levinson, in particular, that brought King to the FBI's attention.
FBI Assistent Director, William Sullivan, who was in charge of the
investigation of King, said.. "I was 100% for King...because I saw him
as an effective and badly needed leader for the Black people in their desire
for civil rights."
Yet, he later considered King to be one of the seven most degenerate
individuals he had ever encountered.
The FBI files on King are sealed, by the order of a left-wing judge untill
the year 2027. Wouldn't you at least agree that they should be released
immediately? What could there be in them that would be detrimental to
national security over thirty years after King's death, and almost ten
years after the end of the Cold War? What do you think the government is
trying to hide?
Regards.
HM
Western Imperative Network
http://www.usaor.net/users/ipm
Wake Up or Die
http://www.wakeupordie.com
Politically Incorrect
http://www.sound.net/~fenix/PI-index.html
Stormfront
http://www.stormfront.org
Yggdrasil's Library
http://www.ddc.net/ygg
Civil War Two
http://www.civilwartwo.com/
Real History- For a Change!
http://www.fpp.co.uk/
>Sounds like something I wouldn't mind going to. Don't know about
>prostitutes, but I can assure you that many good men in history have
>paid for it when away from home. How many military officers have gone
>to prostitutes but come back heroes after serving the country? You'll
>have to do better than this.
>
>
>regards,
>The Devil's Advocate
>
The Devil's Advocate©
>
>The FBI files on King are sealed, by the order of a left-wing judge untill
>the year 2027. Wouldn't you at least agree that they should be released
>immediately? What could there be in them that would be detrimental to
>national security over thirty years after King's death, and almost ten
>years after the end of the Cold War? What do you think the government is
>trying to hide?
None of this stupid shit makes any difference to me. Today I am
allowed to attend any college I want and don't have to give up my seat
to a white person in a restuarant because of King. This is what is
important to me, not the trivial bullshit you guys obsess over. I
don't care if he had hookers, parties or drank, it makes no difference
in my life. My Civil Rights which he gave me DO make the difference.
regards,
hc23hc
>
>
> >
> >The FBI files on King are sealed, by the order of a left-wing judge untill
> >the year 2027. Wouldn't you at least agree that they should be released
> >immediately? What could there be in them that would be detrimental to
> >national security over thirty years after King's death, and almost ten
> >years after the end of the Cold War? What do you think the government is
> >trying to hide?
>
> None of this stupid shit makes any difference to me. Today I am
> allowed to attend any college I want and don't have to give up my seat
> to a white person in a restuarant because of King. This is what is
> important to me, not the trivial bullshit you guys obsess over. I
> don't care if he had hookers, parties or drank, it makes no difference
> in my life. My Civil Rights which he gave me DO make the difference.
The unfortunate thing with keeping documents sealed for so long is that
speculative racially biased detractors like HM can dream up all the gossip
they want about King and then top it off with the manic fantasy that anything
of importance done by King was covertly planned by the government.
What a joke.
.
.
.
Johnny Yen
HM <hmur...@inreach.com> wrote in article
<d5ZU3.4134$n51.1...@news.inreach.com>...
>
> ----------
> In article <3821276...@news.earthlink.net>,
> REMOVE-THI...@excite.com (The Devil's AdvocateŠ) wrote:
>
>
> >I wouldn't. What the hell's wrong with having a boozed-up sex party?
>
> Many consider it inappropriate behavior for one who claims to be a
religious
> leader.
So I do not see you directing some of your anger towards many of those
white religious leaders who did so, for example some of the popes. John
XII or Alexander VI for example. Also, since British royalty have been
religious leaders since Henry VIII left the Catholic Church, the scandalous
behaviour by some British monarchs would qualify as deserving of your
anger.
But, then King was never really a "reverand," was he?
>
> Where did the money for his drunken orgies come from? King embezzled
> substantial amounts of money that was contributed to the "civil rights
> movement" to pay for his liquor and hooker tab
By all indications, Kings sexual tastes were normal. Regardless, they
were irrelevant to the work he achieved.
. Arguably, money that
> might not have been contributed if the donars knew what it was really
> being used for.
>
> It was not this, however, it was King's association with known
Communists,
> Stanley Levinson, in particular, that brought King to the FBI's
attention.
You confuse communists and socialists yet again.
There is a difference. The Socialist International has been one
of the major enemies of Communism throughout its existence.
> FBI Assistent Director, William Sullivan, who was in charge of the
> investigation of King, said.. "I was 100% for King...because I saw him
> as an effective and badly needed leader for the Black people in their
desire
> for civil rights."
>
> Yet, he later considered King to be one of the seven most degenerate
> individuals he had ever encountered.
This man must have been very sheltered. J.Edgar Hoover was far more
degenerate than King, so I guess Sullivan never met his boss. King;s
sexual tastes never hurt anyone, but even still they are irrelevant to his
lifes work. The feminist axiom " the personal is political " is the sort
of crap that embodies everything wrong with America.
> The FBI files on King are sealed, by the order of a left-wing judge
untill
> the year 2027. Wouldn't you at least agree that they should be released
> immediately? What could there be in them that would be detrimental to
> national security over thirty years after King's death, and almost ten
> years after the end of the Cold War? What do you think the government
is
> trying to hide?
Perhaps involvement in his assassination ?
>
> Regards.
> HM
>
>
> Western Imperative Network
> http://www.nizkor.org
>
> Wake Up or Die
Indeed. Wake up and note that you have lost the
" racial holy war " and that " Zog " has won, or
kill yourself and be a martyr.
>
> Politically Incorrect
I wouldn;t say so much politically incorrect as
much as an alternate PC.
>
> Storefront
> http://www.storefront.org
>
> Yggdrasil's Library
Go back to your Dungeons and Dragons.
>
> Civil War Two
Which one ?
>
> Real History- For a Change!
> http://www.fpp.co.uk/
>
>
> >Sounds like something I wouldn't mind going to. Don't know about
> >prostitutes, but I can assure you that many good men in history have
> >paid for it when away from home
It is part and parcel of military life.
. How many military officers have gone
> >to prostitutes but come back heroes after serving the country?
It is a part of being in the military and to a lesser extent
part of travel.
You'll
> >have to do better than this.
> >
> >
> >regards,
> >The Devil's Advocate
> >
Boss Tweed
Johnny Yen wrote in message <01bf2ae5$f3fd3bc0$373fd3cf@default>...
Perhaps because he partied his booty off like the bro's in de mutha country:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Bafokeng prince 'died after drug and sex spree'
April 30, 1999
By Russel Molefe
Johannesburg - Mr Boemo "Fosi" Molotlegi, prince of the wealthy Bafokeng
tribe, who was found dead in a hotel room a fortnight ago, spent the night
before his death with two prostitutes at the R50-a-night Hillbrow Inn in
Johannesburg.
One of the sex workers, speaking on condition of anonymity, said this week
that they had consumed liquor and drugs with the 33-year-old prince before
booking into the hotel on the night of April 17. Molotlegi was found dead in
the hotel room the following morning.
The sex worker said she and her friend were picked up by Molotlegi in his
luxury car in front of the hotel where they live, on the night in question.
"We drove around while we introduced ourselves to each other. He stated
exactly what he wanted from us. We then drank liquor and took drugs which we
bought in Hillbrow," she said. "As I share my room, we went to the Hillbrow
Inn where we booked in. There we drank more liquor and smoked some 'crack'
(solidified cocaine).
"My friend and I decided to go back to our own hotel very late at night and
he (Molotlegi) was fast asleep by that time. We tried to wake him up but
couldn't, so we left.
"I was shocked when the police arrested us the following morning saying we
had killed him. They questioned us and we told them everything that
happened. We were later released," the sex worker said.
She said they had no idea who he really was until he introduced himself as a
member of the Bafokeng royal family. He also showed them his business cards.
Hillbrow Inn manager Mr David Tshabalala confirmed that Molotlegi had
checked into the hotel with two known sex workers on April 17 and was
allocated room 234.
"When he arrived you could see there was something wrong. He was sweating a
lot.
"He even bumped a concrete barrier slab in the underground parking with the
right-hand side of his car and when he climbed out of the car he was
clutching a bottle of mineral water.
"The two women apparently left at 2am. His body was found by cleaners on
Sunday morning and we alerted the police.
"He had white foam coming out of his nose and mouth. A business card was
found in the hotel room," Tshabalala said.
He said the Bafokeng royal family members visited the hotel on Sunday April
18, to find out what had happened and "we explained everything to them".
Bafokeng royal family legal advisor Mr James Sutherland said this week that
post-mortem results were expected to be released early next week.
"There have been a lot of allegations and police are still investigating.
There have also been allegations of prostitution and it is up to the police
to establish exactly what happened.
"The family is not accepting anything at face value at the moment. The story
of the prostitutes could be contrived. He could have been killed somewhere
and his body dumped at Hillbrow Inn," Sutherland said.
Johannesburg police spokesman Inspector Chris Wilkens said investigations
were continuing and would be sent to the senior public prosecutor on
completion.
So far, a number of people have been questioned but no one has been
arrested, Wilkens said. Molotlegi will be buried tomorrow in Phokeng.
Copyright Š 1999 The Sowetan.
http://www.africanews.org/south/southafrica/stories/19990430_feat8.html
Fantomas1
"Boss Tweed" <tam...@hall.net> wrote:
>
> Johnny Yen wrote in message <01bf2ae5$f3fd3bc0$373fd3cf@default>...
> >
> >
> >HM <hmur...@inreach.com> wrote in article
> ><d5ZU3.4134$n51.1...@news.inreach.com>...
> >>
> >> ----------
> >> In article <3821276...@news.earthlink.net>,
> >> REMOVE-THI...@excite.com (The Devil's AdvocateŠ) wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> >I wouldn't. What the hell's wrong with having a boozed-up sex
party?
> >>
> >> Many consider it inappropriate behavior for one who claims to be a
> >religious
> >> leader.
> >
> >So I do not see you directing some of your anger towards many of
those
> >white religious leaders who did so, for example some of the popes.
John
> >XII or Alexander VI for example.
Lets take John XII. After the last Mass of the day at the Vatican
he would officiate at black masses in Trastevere, and bedded countless
numbers of women by promising that in exchange for holy beef injections
they would be assured of going to heaven - the ideal pickup line for
the middle ages. He was murdered by an angry husband who found him
in bed with his wife. And Alexander VI ( Rodrigo Borja ) impregnated his
own daughter Lucrezia.
Also, since British royalty have
been
> >religious leaders since Henry VIII left the Catholic Church, the
scandalous
> >behaviour by some British monarchs would qualify as deserving of your
> >anger.
Edward VII was one of the best customers of the finest houses of joy
in Paris while waiting for his mum Victoria to pass on...
> > But, then King was never really a "reverand," was he?
> >>
> >> Where did the money for his drunken orgies come from? King
embezzled
> >> substantial amounts of money that was contributed to the "civil
rights
> >> movement" to pay for his liquor and hooker tab
> >
> >By all indications, Kings sexual tastes were normal. Regardless, they
> >were irrelevant to the work he achieved.
> >
> >. Arguably, money that
> >> might not have been contributed if the donars knew what it was
really
> >> being used for.
> >>
> >> It was not this, however, it was King's association with known
> >Communists,
> >> Stanley Levinson, in particular, that brought King to the FBI's
> >attention.
> >
> >You confuse communists and socialists yet again.
> >There is a difference. The Socialist International has been one
> >of the major enemies of Communism throughout its existence.
> >
The men cited were socialists not communists. Rustin was one of
the strongest anti communist voices on the left.
And the white boys too.Also the brown boys and the yellow boys. Its
a man thing, you wouldn't understand...
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> Bafokeng prince 'died after drug and sex spree'
>
> April 30, 1999
> By Russel Molefe
>
> Johannesburg - Mr Boemo "Fosi" Molotlegi, prince of the wealthy
Bafokeng
> tribe, who was found dead in a hotel room a fortnight ago, spent the
night
> before his death with two prostitutes at the R50-a-night Hillbrow Inn
in
> Johannesburg.
Just like devout Irish-American Catholic boy Chris Farley,
Albanian-American John Belushi, Irish-Australian Errol Flynn,
US WASP Nelson Rockefeller, Jewish American Lenny Bruce,and
good old Southern Protestant boys Hank Williams and Elvis Presley.
The list goes on and on...
And many other whites all over the Americas, Europe, Australia, etc.
Boys will be boys...
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
HM
----------
In article <ea4lOO5E4DFbU1...@4ax.com>, Wild Rice
<wild_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Assuming arguendo the information you gleefully expound were to be
> accurate, It matters little and is not no great revelation. Among the
> most conservative political people I've known have been folks in the
> American C.P.
It could be quite interesting if you expounded on that concept. I have also
known individuals that have been involved in the Communist Party USA.
Admitedly, some are socially conservative.
But this does not change the fact the the Communist Party, USA had
been financed and directed by a hostile foreign government.
Information recently obtained from archieves in Moscow reveal that the
Soviets had infiltrated the US to a greater extent than most anti-communists
had thought possible.
Today, it is known that Jewish billionaire Armand Hammer, brought money
from the USSR to the US to finance Communist activities. So did "Martin
Luther" King's Jewish handler, Stanley Levinson.
> The CP'ers are into political movements like school
> boards, etc. Not too subversive is it?
Come on, wouldn't you at least agree that it is subversive for a school
board to include those that are members of an organization that was financed
and directed by a hostile foreign government, and kept their real political
agenda a secret?
> The CP'ers, along with the liberals, et al., were there for King to advance
> the civil rights movement.
What did they have to say about the "civil rights" of those who lived under
Communist dictatorships? :)
> The American CP has a history of being involved in mainstream American
> politics.
Yes, it does. One of FDR's top advisors, and the First UN Secretary
General, Algier Hiss was a Soviet agent.
CPUSA members and supporters have been active in education, labor, art,
journalism and entertainment in order to carry out their political agenda.
Consider King's agitation in Selma, Alabama. Selma at that time had a
population of 30,000. King brought a mob of 11,000 into that town, with
the intention of provoking violence, so that the federal government would
intervene on behalf of the victims, and cave into his demands. (just
imagine if one out of every three in your town was an outsider that had come
for the sole purpose of making trouble)
The federal government did just that- stripped states of their right to
require that voters be able to read and write. Now how would a nation be
strengthened by having its lawmakers elected by illiterates?
If King's real goal was to improve the lives of Alabama's black population,
wouldn't working to teach them how to read and write, and enough about the
Constitution that they could pass a simple test, and using his ample funds
to invest in enterprises that would have provided real jobs have done more
good than the creation of disorder?
King's dream was not the betterment of his people. It was in keeping them
as a class of "victims" to be used by the radical left.
> Obviously, your disdain runs deep for King.
If you found out more about King and the "civil rights" disorders of the
60's, you just might share my disdain for King.
> Yet, the old CP jacket doesn't fit.
Leonard Patterson was a former member of the Executive Committee of the
Young Communist League. He was a Communist Party candidate for the New
York state legislature. He knew CP boss Gus Hall, and was trained with him
at Moscow's Lenin Institute.
He realized that he was being taken for a ride, left the CP, and spoke out
against it. According to him, the "old CP jacket" sure did fit.
Regards,
HM
Western Imperative Network
http://www.usaor.net/users/ipm
Wake Up or Die
http://www.wakeupordie.com
Politically Incorrect
http://www.sound.net/~fenix/PI-index.html
Stormfront
http://www.stormfront.org
Yggdrasil's Library
http://www.ddc.net/ygg
Civil War Two
http://www.civilwartwo.com/
Real History- For a Change!
http://www.fpp.co.uk/
HM
----------
In article <382477e8...@news.earthlink.net>,
REMOVE-THI...@excite.com (The Devil's AdvocateŠ) wrote:
> None of this stupid shit makes any difference to me. Today I am
> allowed to attend any college I want and don't have to give up my seat
> to a white person in a restuarant because of King. This is what is
> important to me, not the trivial bullshit you guys obsess over.
You demonstrate a clear misunderstanding over what rights are, as compared
to privileges, desires, or needs. This is a common mistake due to the
influence of the mass media and a truly pathetic educational system.
(in fact, according to a recent survey, more high school students know which
city the zip code "90210" is located in, then know the city the Constitution
was drafted in)
Rights, such as freedom of speech, or the right to keep and bear arms for
example, can be exercised by all citizens, yet do not include the right
to infringe on others, such as the new California fad of claiming it a
"right" to use a banks ATM without charge, and without having an account in
that bank.
Everyone can for example express their views, or own firearms, but that does
not obligate you, for example, to buy me a new Mac G4, or a Match grade
M1-A. (But Christmas is just around the corner <G>)
Now consider the "right" to attend any college you want: clearly if
everyone wanted to attend the same college, they couldn't do it, and that
college would have to discriminate, or choose which prospective students
could attend, and which ones would be turned away.
Your "right" to a table in a resturarant imposes on another that they
provide it, and imposes on them that they provide you with food and
service. Just think- by not opening a resturant, I am somehow denying you
your "right" to a table at "Chez' Murdoque." :)
Opening your own resturant, (The Devil's BBQ) would be an example of a
right.
> My Civil Rights which he gave me DO make the difference.
MLK was a man, not a god. If you accept as a fact that he gave you rights,
the flip side of that belief is that another man, such as Clinton can take
those rights away.
MLK contributed to the passage of laws where such basic rights, such as
property rights, and freedom of association are subordinated to governmental
intrusion into such trivial issues as the "right" to have a pizza delivered
to ones door. See:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_williams/19991013_xcwwi_unacknowle.shtm
I'm certainly no "Bible thunper." But your concern over issues such as the
"right" to a table in a resturant, while we both are being incrementaly
stripped of Constitutionally protected rights, reminds me of the story of
Essau giving up his birthright in exchange for a bowel of mush.