SCAMMED by EXPERTCAD and SOFTECH - Bug infestation!
Jason Bell
with Softech and the Expertcad v.5.2 and v5.3 software. We are
Expertcad/Cimcad users of almost a decade, and the idiots at Softech
decided that they want to charge me thousands of dollars to fix the 30+
bugs that infest their inferior, 5th grade level software.
In addition, when I threatened them with public display of their lousy
software, they called me minutes later and offered me a free version 6.0
that would "fix most of my problems". A few months later, Mr. Terry
Machut of Softech reneged on his offer and told me a 20 day evaluation
copy would be sent. Not only does Expertcad fail to come close to what
I would call a basic CAD program, the idiots at Softech and Mr. Terry
Machut are nothing but liars in my book. They also lied about how they
were going to help me with plotting to a new printer, which they later
had no knowledge of even agreeing to help me. Even their rep who sold
us the original software lied about its capabilities and similarities to
its Unix cousin "Cimcad".
Mr. Terry Machut told me about Softech's failures recently with the
Expertcad software:
1) Softech's takeover of Cimlinc was very rocky and Expertcad was
neglected for quite sometime.
2) Expertcad v6.0, which promises Y2K compliance and some fixes to the
shotty v5.2/v5.3 is STILL NOT OUT YET!
3) Softech has had some troubles with Expertcad recently (perhaps sales
and getting it to work?)
4) No BBS, online support, or web page.
5) The list goes on....
By all means, people, DO NOT EVEN THINK OF USING OR PURCHASING
"EXPERTCAD". If you are willing to give up allowing your customers to
read your DXF files, if you don't need to ever print anything again, if
you don't mind the constant bugs that plague everyday usage (see the
LARGE list below if you doubt me), then go ahead and dump $2500 or so
into Expertcad. They also have the nerve to charge ME for software
maintenance, like I have to pay to try to get them to fix the 30+ bugs
they should have been working on years ago.
If you doubt any of this, please note the following:
1) We have used may versions of Cimcad and now Expertcad v5.2 and v5.3
for almost 10 years (Expertcad for the last 2 years).
2) We are mechanical and electrical engineers.
3) We use Expertcad between 4-5 users in this branch of our company at
least 30 hours each per week.
4) We have been discussing the bugs with Softech for over a year now
with no help whatsoever.
Allow me to elaborate on the anger above - here is the bug list that
Softech tells me is the "biggest we've ever seen"!
==============================================
PROBLEMS WITH EXPERTCAD VERSION 5.2/5.3 FOR WINNT 4.0
==============================================
Last updated - 09 Sept 1999
"SOFT" = Softech/Expertcad's responses to my list
"FOEN" = The author of this email.
------------
1) When done saving, the round clock does not disappear and return to
your pointer. We must hit "esc" twice to return to the pointer and
access the drawing again.
SOFT - This one I have not seen nor heard of. Does this happen
everytime
a drawing is saved?
FOEN - Yes, it happens everytime with versions 5.2 and 5.3. See the
sketch below that shows what the pointer looks like (a clockface) after
done saving.
2) The text message area at the bottom of the ExpertCAD window
constantly turns white when you run your mouse over it when in "taskbar
autohide mode". Not a big deal, but still annoying. This also occurs
when measuring distances with the "Y" key shortcut.
SOFT - Version 6.0 of ExpertCAD will open a window that is just above
the
taskbar.
3) Cannot hold backspace or space key when editing text. We have to hit
the key one time for each letter.
SOFT - This is corrected in Version 6.0 of ExpertCAD.
4) Sometimes when editing text in "change current text" function and
hitting the return key, the next line of text is copied from the first
to create multiple lines of the same text. When this happens, any text
you had at the end is deleted.
SOFT - I don't have a clue as to what would cause such a problem.
FOEN - See the GIF files below for details…notice that when we hit ENTER
after the 2nd line of text, that it copies the 2nd line to the 4th and
5th line, deleting the original 3rd line. Perhaps these pictures will
explain the bug.
5) Both versions are not Y2K compliant, and Softkey wants to charge us
for a repair (even although licenses were bought in the last 1-2 years).
SOFT - Version 6.0 of ExpertCAD is Y2K compliant. The current version
of
ExpertCAD is not, because the version of Exceed (5.x) that was used at
the time was not.
6) We cannot print properly to our Epson EPL-N2000, especially on B-size
prints. We have discussed this with reps at Softech numerous times
(Dean Swaim) and they said they were purchasing this model printer to
investigate the problem. Your former sales rep for ExpertCAD (Paul
Mott) promised us there would "be no problem with this arrangement" for
printing. No response received from Dean, and 8 months later he has no
knowledge of our past conversations regarding this printer.
SOFT - There have been many changes made to the print facility in
Version
6.0 of Expertcad. Is this a guarantee that this version will solve your
problem, no, it is not. We rely on the standard print drivers supplied
by Microsoft and their system libraries in Microsoft Development
Studio. By switching to the latest version of Development Studio and
changes that have been made to ExpertCAD's print primitive, a lot of our
current printing problems have been solved.
FOEN - Without being able to print properly, what good is any CAD
package? We would also like to understand how to print the various
linestyles (thin, thick, etc.), how to customize printing, and the
differences between the print and plot functions.
7) There is no "print selected" function like we had under Unix on an
older version. If there is, please inform us how we can do this.
SOFT - There is no "print selected", in the released version of Cimcad
on
UNIX.
FOEN - Noted. This was a customization from years ago that works nicely
on Unix, but we have yet to see if it works on WinNT.
8) Must always choose a new filetype (dxf, iges, etc.) from the menus
for each drawing opened. The program does not maintain this information
and allow you to continue opening the same file types for successive
drawings. We must always switch from ".ddd" to another format for each
drawing.
SOFT - Version 6.0 of ExpertCAD contains a new text buffer
"CUSTOM_FILTER_BUF". This text buffer can be set to a default file
extension (.2d, .cad, etc.) and stored in your .cfg file. At IO time,
only those files with the matching file extension, will be listed in the
in the dialog box.
9) Winnt version cannot read compressed Cimcad Unix versions.
SOFT - Compressed UNIX files are not supported by the Windows NT
Operating System. If Microsoft would support this file format and
provide an uncompress facility, then ExpertCAD would be able to read
compressed UNIX files.
FOEN - This was an item on our "lust list", so we understand your
answer.
10) DXF output files cannot be read on approximately 60% of our
customer's computers, especially Autocad. This is a major downfall of
Expertcad, as it is rendered "incompatible" with many other software
applications. We are therefore unable to communicate with our customers
and may have to switch to another CAD package because of this.
**SOFT - Yes we know that DXF is a problem and at the time of this
writing I cannot give you an honest date as to when this problem will be
addressed.
11) On the other half, ExpertCAD cannot read Autocad v. 13 and 14 DXF
files that our customers provide to us. Once again, we may switch to
another CAD package because of this incompatibility.
SOFT - Currently, ExpertCAD only supports version 12 of DXF files.
12) The "X" icon in the upper right corner (to exit this application)
does not work in Expertcad. Why doesn't it permit exiting?
SOFT - The use of the "X" (close window) icon has been implemented in
Version 6.0 of ExpertCAD.
13) We must maximize the Expertcad screen each time is it run, otherwise
white areas appear over the bottom text message area of the program.
SOFT - See item 2.
14) Hatching linestyle 0 in Expertcad is printed as linestyle 8 in
Cimcad. Since Expertcad doesn't permit us to print to any of our
printers, we must print thru older Unix Cimcad printers that work.
SOFT - Need a little clarification, is ExpertCAD printing the wrong line
style if the part is hatched using linestyle 0?
FOEN - We are not printing with Expertcad, as Expertcad can't print
properly to three (3) printers that we've tested. If we make a hatched
area in Expertcad v5.3 for WinNT with linestyle 0, then we transfer this
same drawing to an older Unix Cimcad program (to print only),
unfortunately Cimcad reads and prints the hatched area as linestyle 8.
Does this make more sense?
15) I call this one "invisible text". When zooming out many times, you
can see black vertical lines that show text that has no letters or
numbers in it (a failed attempt at text, perhaps). You can only see
them when zoomed out and can only delete them when zoomed out.
SOFT - Would you please send us an example drawing displaying such a
problem?
FOEN - See below. Notice how the text only appears when zoomed out, but
when you zoom in it disappears and cannot be deleted.
16) Can't use the "%" symbol in Expertcad. If we can, how do we do it?
SOFT - There is no "%" symbol in ExpertCAD both on UNIX and NT. Why is
the "%" symbol needed when the "%" key can be used?
FOEN - I'd love to know how to use the "%" symbol with Expertcad, either
within the simple text edit box or within the Notepad text editor. We
tried and it doesn't work. Here are the results of our tests. Note
that the % symbol creates subscript text if it's at the beginning of the
line, and it doesn't even show up if at the end of the line. The
notepad text editor does similar things with this symbol. Any further
thoughts on this? Shall we continue custom drawing the % symbol with a
line and two circles? Does Autocad work the same way?
17) We don't always know exactly which "shift, ~, X" command to use for
all the symbols that Expertcad has. Never came with information on
this, and the help functions are useless. Do you have a chart that
shows these?
SOFT - Look in Chapter 9 page 34 of the documentation you received with
your software. Make sure you have installed the Acrobat viewer, all of
the documentation is in pdf format.
FOEN - Thanks.
18) Expertcad has a hard time recognizing the quick strokes (Z = zoom
all, M = move, etc.). Must drawing the letters many times to get
Expertcad to perform the function. Cimcad was smoother.
SOFT - The new version of Exceed that is being used in Version 6.0 of
ExpertCAD has a much quicker response time to mouse events (strokes,
dropping points, etc.) so ExpertCAD's responses to strokes should
improve.
19) When doing item #18 above and finishing the quick stroke, Expertcad
drops a point when done. We must then delete this point, which is time
consuming. Cimcad did not do this.
SOFT - This is tied to item 18.
20) Expertcad drops several points inadvertently during autosave
functions (wherever you had your mouse located at, with no mouse button
input by the user).
SOFT - Will investigate.
21) We loose the UNDO function when an autosave occurs, but the OOPS
function still works? Why not both?
SOFT - The UNDO function is automatically turned off after an autosave
occurs, you cannot undo a autosave. You can simply click the OOPS icon
(which will undo the last task before the autosave) and the REDO
function will now become active. Works exactly the same way on UNIX.
Remember, you are talking about two totally different operating systems
that have very little in common.
22) Why aren't the center menus, accessible via the middle mouse button,
located on the main windows menus next to FILE and HELP? Just about
every other Windows software package has this today.
SOFT - ExpertCAD is a port of the UNIX based product to NT using Exceed
as it's window manager and the Microsoft type menu bars are not
available.
23) Expertcad does not permit use of the "/" key to move to the next
line when dimensioning the diameter of a hole. Cimcad had this
function.
SOFT - I believe you are referencing the backslash "\" and not the
forward slash "/" key. The backslash has special meaning in UNIX
(accept the next character as a literal character) whereas in NT, it is
a normal key (used in path statements), thus, it cannot be used the same
way as in UNIX.
FOEN - We were sold ExpertCAD based on similarities to Cimcad. I guess
Paul Mott, your old rep, told us wrong.
24) Can't delete text when zoomed out in certain instances. Must zoom
in to do so.
SOFT - Would you please send us an example drawing displaying such a
problem?
FOEN - I cannot give you an example until I experience it again. It
occurs every now and then. We'll send one when found.
25) File names, throughout the ENTIRE path
(C:\temp\cimcad_program\testfile_15Jun99.ddd) cannot contain spaces!
This causes major problems for us.
SOFT - This has been corrected in Version 6.0 of ExpertCAD. Paths to a
file and file names can now contain spaces in them.
FOEN - Version 6.0 sounds like our saviour.
26) The <x x' x" angle function DOES NOT EVEN WORK. We get angles of
8645 sometimes!
SOFT - Our testing here has yet to turn up a problem with angular
dimensions in degrees, minutes and seconds. I also spoke to our AE's
and they also have received no such complaints.
FOEN - Here is your first official complaint about the bug. See the
example below.
27) Multiple HEAP ERRORS and DR. WATSON application errors are typical.
SOFT - This was a problem with Exceed, which is corrected in Version 6.0
of ExpertCAD.
28) Every time we exit the program, good old DR. WATSON application
errors must be acknowledged. Our rep promised version 5.3 would fix
this - which it didn't.
SOFT - This was a problem with Exceed, which is corrected in Version 6.0
of ExpertCAD.
29) Why does the CIMLINC server window stay up after closing Expertcad?
Also, the LOCAL X console does the same thing every now and then.
SOFT - This was a problem with Exceed, which is corrected in Version 6.0
of ExpertCAD. Note, the server window, by default (Exceed's default)
will always stay running even though the application has stopped (takes
less time to start the application next time and uses virtually no
system resource to run).
FOEN - Please advise on pricing for version 6.0 by 16July99 (per Terry
Machut on 09July99 via telephone). Please provide one free version 6.0
for WinNT 4.0 when available (per Terry Machut on 09July99).
30) When you MERGE a file, the "OPEN" dialog box is opened. This should
be labeled MERGE just as per its definition because it can be confusing
as to whether you are OPENing or MERGing a file.
31) If you change your cursor type and save, this change last for a day
or two and then goes back to the default. We have pretty much given up
on changing our cursors based on this bug.
32) It you pull in a TEMPLATE, then the next time you OPEN or MERGE a
file you will be taken to the same folder as your TEMPLATE folder. This
is quite annoying at times.
ANY THE LIST GROWS DAILY!!!
Note that the sketches I quote above have been deleted for purposes of
posting to this newsgroup. If you'd like more details, I'll be happy to
elaborate or send the official bug list.
STAY CLEAR OF EXPERTCAD!!!
####################################
# Jason Bell - Engineering Manager
# Fontaine Engineering Inc.
# 415 Benedum Drive/PO Box 1350
# Bridgeport, WV 26330
# (304)842-8718 voice, (304)842-8711 fax
# Email: jb...@foen.com
# WWW: http://www.foen.com
####################################
lee_r...@my-deja.com
I know I will now never purchase any software from Softech or the Expertcad
software. Thanks again for helping me from looking bad and making what could
have been a career ending purchase.
In article <37DD5157...@foen.com>,
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Petri J. Riipinen
>I just need everyone to understand all the problems my company has had
>with Softech and the Expertcad v.5.2 and v5.3 software. We are
>Expertcad/Cimcad users of almost a decade, and the idiots at Softech
Well, after reading your outburst, I don't understand why have you been
using this CAD software? Wouldn't it have been appropriate to change to
different CAD software which would work better...???
I mean, that's what I do with software that sucks and when there are
alternatives.
Just my .20
- Pete
Hoocheypucker
Karen
Jason Bell <jb...@foen.com> wrote in message
news:37DD5157...@foen.com...
> FOEN - See the GIF files below for details.notice that when we hit ENTER
Jason Bell
Softech tells me is the "biggest we've ever seen"! In addition, I
received the 20-day time limited Expertcad v6.0 that was supposed to be
the solution of all our problems. It solved some, but not all of our
bugs. Of course, then it expired and Softech refuses to provide any
assitance to my company now that this email has been passed around. In
my opinion, Expertcad v6.0 is a MINOR cleanup of an already doomed CAD
package.
in the dialog box.
addressed.
FOEN - Thanks.
SOFT - Will investigate.
way as in UNIX.
of ExpertCAD.
of ExpertCAD.
--
Best regards,