A World Record for 2002

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Robert Bernardo

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Jan 17, 2002, 2:12:55 AM1/17/02
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> On Thu, 25 Oct 2001 I wrote:
>
> According to the book, the Guinness World Records 2001, the "most successful
> computer" is the Commodore 64.
>
> Quote -- "Approximately 30 million Commodore 64 computers were sold between
> the model's launch in 1982 and its commercial decline in 1993. The
> computer contained 64K RAM, 16K graphics, and 16K sound."
>
> In the hardcover edition I have, there is a photo of the brown, breadbox C64
> along with a brown 1541, but some kind of black monitor (which is
> unidentifiable due to the lighting in the photo).

Not again!!! The new Guinness World Records 2002 has a listing
for the Commodore 64. This time there is the caption, "BEST-SELLING
COMPUTER". Below is the article, almost an exact copy of the one that
was in the 2001 edition.

"About 30 million Commodore 64
computers were sold between the
model's launch in 1982 and its
commercial decline in 1993. The
computer contained 64K RAM, 16K
graphics, and 16K sound."

However, this time there was no photo of the C64, 1541, and monitor.
The C64 blurb is found on p. 168 of the Guinness World Records
2002, hardcover edition (the one with the green, psychedelic cover),
copyright 2002, ISBN 1-892051-06-0, $27.95 US, $35.95 Canadian.

Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug

Ralf Metzner

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Jan 17, 2002, 2:28:03 PM1/17/02
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> "About 30 million Commodore 64
> computers were sold between the
> model's launch in 1982 and its
> commercial decline in 1993. The
> computer contained 64K RAM, 16K
> graphics, and 16K sound."
>
look on ebay, many c64´s sold this days.

Ralf


Marc Walters

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Jan 17, 2002, 6:28:52 PM1/17/02
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"Robert Bernardo" <rber...@value.net> wrote in message
news:f890d44d.02011...@posting.google.com...
[snip]

> Not again!!! The new Guinness World Records 2002 has a listing
> for the Commodore 64. This time there is the caption, "BEST-SELLING
> COMPUTER". Below is the article, almost an exact copy of the one that
> was in the 2001 edition.
>
> "About 30 million Commodore 64
> computers were sold between the

So it's the second year in a row that the GBOR has got it wrong. No more
than about 17 million C64s were sold, 22M if you include the C128. There was
no year in which more than 3M C64s were sold during its 1982-1993 run. From
memory, the figures were something like:
C64 Sales:

1982: 150K - 300K
1983: 2M
1984: 2M-3M
1985: 2M -3M
1986: 2M -3M
1987: 1M - 2M
1988: 1M - 1.5M
1989: 1M - 1.5M

The following figures are from Commodore annual reports:

Fiscal 1990: 700K - 800K (decline begins),
fiscal 1991: 800K ( non official 1M)
fiscal 1992: 650K
fiscal 1993: 150K - 200K

1993 Annual Report: 17M total C64, 4.5M C128

As for the mythical Chinese and Indian C64s, I carried out an unsuccessful
search for anything concrete regarding these. There were 30,000 C64s shipped
to China in three separate lots by Commodore Australia, but no evidence of
local production for their domestic market.


Marc
ma...@objectconnections.com


Sam Gillett

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Jan 17, 2002, 6:54:58 PM1/17/02
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Robert Bernardo wrote ...

> "About 30 million Commodore 64
> computers were sold between the
> model's launch in 1982 and its
> commercial decline in 1993. The
> computer contained 64K RAM, 16K
> graphics, and 16K sound."

I understand the 64K RAM. But I'm not sure that I understand what is meant
by 16K graphics, and 16K sound. It does make me wonder how much of the
other stuff in the Guinness Book of Records is for real. Sheesh! You can't
even trust a supposedly reliable source of information anymore.

Guinness is getting more and more like the National Inquirer or whatever
other supermarket checkout stand rag.

Best regards,

Sam Gillett aka Mars Probe @ Starship Intrepid 1-972-221-4088
Last 8-bit BBS in the Dallas area. Commodore lives!


Jason Petersen

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Jan 17, 2002, 8:14:50 PM1/17/02
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Sam Gillett wrote:
>
> I understand the 64K RAM. But I'm not sure that I understand what is meant
> by 16K graphics, and 16K sound. It does make me wonder how much of the
> other stuff in the Guinness Book of Records is for real. Sheesh! You can't
> even trust a supposedly reliable source of information anymore.

The graphics comment makes sense, since the VIC-II can only see 16 kb of
ram at any one time. I don't know about the sound comment though.

--
Jason Petersen http://thisoldcomputer.com

Marc Walters

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Jan 17, 2002, 8:27:25 PM1/17/02
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"Jason Petersen" <pete...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3C4774C8...@yahoo.com...

16 Khz range? :-)

Marc


Sam Gillett

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Jan 17, 2002, 9:20:45 PM1/17/02
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Marc Walters wrote ...

>So it's the second year in a row that the GBOR has got it wrong. No more
>than about 17 million C64s were sold, 22M if you include the C128. There
was
>no year in which more than 3M C64s were sold during its 1982-1993 run. From
>memory, the figures were something like:


[snip yearly figures]

>1993 Annual Report: 17M total C64, 4.5M C128

Was this the annual report for the North American Division of Commodore, or
the European Division? Could it be that the combined C-64 production of
_both_ divisions was 30 million?

But, I still don't buy the Guinness figure of 16K sound on the 64 :-)

Marc Walters

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Jan 19, 2002, 8:12:20 PM1/19/02
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"Sam Gillett" <samgi...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1EL18.1174$2n2.6...@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net...
>
> Marc Walters wrote ...
[snip]

> >1993 Annual Report: 17M total C64, 4.5M C128
>
> Was this the annual report for the North American Division of Commodore,
or
> the European Division? Could it be that the combined C-64 production of
> _both_ divisions was 30 million?

Worldwide.
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&selm=brucef.767422933%40access3&rnum=4

> But, I still don't buy the Guinness figure of 16K sound on the 64 :-)

Maybe 16,000 individual sounds - 16 volume levels * 16 ASDR * 4 waveforms *
?? filter levels ...

Marc Walters

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Jan 19, 2002, 8:39:17 PM1/19/02
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"Markus Mehring" <m...@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:03c748072032b8a0...@mm.invalid.de...

> On Fri, 18 Jan 2002 10:28:52 +1100, "Marc Walters"
> <ma...@objectconnections.com> wrote:
>
> >The following figures are from Commodore annual reports:
> >Fiscal 1990: 700K - 800K (decline begins),
> >fiscal 1991: 800K ( non official 1M)
>
> Something's got to be wrong around this era. In '90 or '91 (forgot which
> one exactly, but I guess it was '91), Commodore reportedly sold around a
> million (or was it 1.5?) of C64s in Germany _alone_, due to the
> reunification and that whole new market to fill, much to their and
everyone
> else's surprise. I know this seems exaggerated, but there really was a
huge
> demand for low-cost computers (or rather for precisely _this_ low-cost
> computer...) behind the former iron curtain, and these are the figures
that
> were circulated since then (press et al).

Yeah, it's maddening alright. I've seen figures quoted in many magazines
from the local CBM representatives, and nothing ever seems to tally
correctly. Perhaps it's exascerbated by a fiscal VS calendar year issue.

What I think may have happened was that Commodore Germany never put in
orders for extra units from the Phillipines in anticipation of the reunion
(it was too sudden, Commodore Germany would have had to order an extra
million units *many* months beforehand) and by the time they saw there was a
big need for 64s in the former Eastern Bloc they couldn't supply the extra
units, so they had to strip product from the West German supply chain (and
maybe also from the UK and Scandinavia) in the belief that the more affluent
West Germany would prefer to buy Amigas anyway. The 64s destined for the
West German market went instead to the East. But that still leaves more
questions, and does not answer the disparity between the Commodore 1993
Annual Report figure for worldwide sales at less than the German figures.
Aaargh!

Maybe the 1.5M included C64-specific peripheral sales - ie the 1541-II.

Another interesting snippet is that at the Annual shareholders meeting
Irving Gould told them that the low number of C64s sold in 1993 (200K) was
because there was no more demand, not even in the former Eastern Bloc
countries.

*sigh* What we really need is to find and ask someone who managed the
Phillipines plant (to find when the last C64 left the production line), or a
key CBM staffmember who worked with production figures and has a Big List of
annual figures.


Marc
ma...@objectconnections.com


roger...@gmail.com

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Jun 6, 2013, 9:03:58 AM6/6/13
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