Inner Amway Contention
Jack Pines
leadership groups in Amway?
I am currently in a real strange situation where I originally was
sponsored under a Britt group with Jim Mainor as my diamond, but my
upline direct didn't get along well with Mr. Mainor. He therefor
decided to go upline and since he couldn't get the help he needed
because of unfortunate but understandable political reasons, I am now
getting my "sponsorship" through Dominick Conguliaro (please forgive
the spelling) and Dexter Yeager.
The two "different-if-you-ask-a-Britt-system-user" systems run almost
exactly the same. If I try to say anything to one of my old
associates in Britt's organization, they act as if I joined with the
Devil himself.
What is the problem? Have I made a mistake or am I not seeing the
whole picture?
In the mean time, I REALLY would like to know why Britt and Yeager are
no longer working as a team. Britt is only two spots downline from
Yeager. This I know since Dom Conguliaro is Britt's sponsor and
Dexter is his. It was very hard for me to make the decision to follow
my upline direct's decision to change, and now I'm not sure I made the
right choice.
Going slowly insane with doubt -- Jack.
CLNizFREE
Jack,
If you feel you are getting good advice from Dominic Conigjularo- then
stick with it. He's a short dude but with His absolutely huge volume, he
does know how to make it work. Don't worry what your old upline people
think - IT'S YOUR BUSINESS- do what it takes to make it work.
I wish I had his emerald volume that I recall was over $200,000,000. He
is a huge part of Dex;'s group and last I knew wasn't even diamond.
Anyhow, you should also realize that it will take a lot of work to succeed
(as with any MLM or business venture).
Neal Brown
_______________________________________________________
CLNi...@AOL.COM
Superbooster Representative ||| UPC Distributor- Leads
CLN Distributor- Leads ||| MMM Distributor- advertising
Fax 801-969-9893(24 hrs) ||| USANA Distributor - Nutritionals
You too can be part of our rapidly growing group
______________________________________________________
j...@rain.org
: Could some wise sage please fill me in on the many different
: leadership groups in Amway?
IMHO, they are essentially variations on a theme. The idea is to convince
the distributor that the "leadership" or "support" group is the key to
marketing Amway. A standard phrase is "No one has ever been successful
without (name of group)'s "tools". The tools are typically audio
cassettes at $5 to $6 each, generally sold on a standing order plan,
meetings at which an admission fee is charged, rallies at which a bigger
admission fee is charged, books, videos, etc. Of course, none of these
"tools" are produced by Amway or subject to Amway's return provisions or
guarantees. As one moves higher up the food chain in these groups, the
Amway business becomes secondary to the "tool" business. Those lower
down in the scheme of things are usually under the impression that the
tools are produced at cost, out of the goodness of the hearts of those
making them. Often the message is religious or political as opposed to
being related to the Amway business.
: I am currently in a real strange situation where I originally was
: sponsored under a Britt group with Jim Mainor as my diamond, but my
: upline direct didn't get along well with Mr. Mainor. He therefor
: decided to go upline and since he couldn't get the help he needed
: because of unfortunate but understandable political reasons, I am now
: getting my "sponsorship" through Dominick Conguliaro (please forgive
: the spelling) and Dexter Yeager.
Reading between the lines, it would noot be surprising if your upline
direct was offered a bigger cut of the "tools" business by the new group.
Of course, now that you've switched groups, you'll need to get all of
_their_ tapes instead of the ones you have, but what the heck, it's only
money, the new group is "better", and you can't build a house without a
hammer...
: The two "different-if-you-ask-a-Britt-system-user" systems run almost
: exactly the same. If I try to say anything to one of my old
: associates in Britt's organization, they act as if I joined with the
: Devil himself.
This is typical. In an organization that speaks of "networking", open
communication among distributors in different lines is referred to as
"crosslining" and forbidden. Information is dispensed much like product
or bonus money, along a rigid heirarchy downline. Just as you were not
told that the company was Amway until the "proper time" (and are
instructed not to tell others until the "proper time"), other things such
as the profit on tools are not revealed until you are securely in the grip
of your upline (have enough of a downline as to make it very expensive to
quit for 6 months and start over). If you learn too much too soon, you
might get greedy or resentful.
: What is the problem? Have I made a mistake or am I not seeing the
: whole picture?
Yes and yes. The mistake is that instead of concentrating and relying on
the Amway business manual for advice on operating an Amway business, you
are relying on the advice of people whose primary business is the
marketing of "tools", not soap. In fact, if you read the Amway business
manual, you'll probably find several things that are routinely violated
by the groups (like the ten-customer rule and the making of income claims).
You're not seeing the whole picture because you don't realize the
importance of the tools business with regard to the soap business,
expecially at the higher levels.
: In the mean time, I REALLY would like to know why Britt and Yeager are
: no longer working as a team. Britt is only two spots downline from
: Yeager. This I know since Dom Conguliaro is Britt's sponsor and
: Dexter is his. It was very hard for me to make the decision to follow
: my upline direct's decision to change, and now I'm not sure I made the
: right choice.
Britt went into the tools business in competition with Yager.
I'd suggest that you go to your public library and have them get a copy
via inter-library loan of Phil Kerns' book "Fake It Til You Make It",
ISBN 0-9609908-0-1. "Amway, The Cult of Free Enterprise" by Steve
Butterfield will also help you see the whole picture. Check out the
Forbes cover story of Dec. 9, 1991 as well.
bataras
Why ? If Mainor/Britt will no longer sell tapes to him because Dex will,
sounds like monopoly/racketteering. May want to call the folks in Penn to
join the class action.
Can someone post the forbes story ? Sid ? That is if you already have it
on disk... don't type it in.
j...@rain.org
: In article <3e6sbj$b...@news.rain.org>, j...@rain.org () writes:
: } Of course, now that you've switched groups, you'll need to get all of
: } _their_ tapes instead of the ones you have,
: Why ? If Mainor/Britt will no longer sell tapes to him because Dex will,
: sounds like monopoly/racketteering. May want to call the folks in Penn to
: join the class action.
Mainor/Britt may indeed try to "work downline" of the renegade who
switched, and pull him back in order to get the tool business back.
Depending on the size of the downline involved and how well they bought
into the "gotta have the right tools" mentality, it may or may not be
worth the effort. The cold-shoulder he's getting from his former
"associates" is part of the picture. These groups tend to replace family
and friends in terms of social contacts, so the ostracism may indeed be a
part of the big picture. "Switch back to our group and lose that renegade
upline direct, and we'll be your friends again".
They'll be glad to sell him tapes as long as he's "plugged in" to _their_
system.
Not as much monopoly as coersion and deception. He may indeed want to
consider joining the class depending on how much money he's lost on
tapes/functions to date. Of course both Dex and Britt are named in the
suit, so he's got both bases covered. :)
: Can someone post the forbes story ? Sid ? That is if you already have it
: on disk... don't type it in.
It's a copyrighted work, and significant excerpts have been posted from
time to time. About six pages. Your library should have it either in
print or on microfilm. There's an earlier Forbes piece in which Dex
speaks on the volume of his tools biz vs. Amway.
none
Diamond!!
Sidney Schwartz
>Path:
>In article <3e6sbj$b...@news.rain.org>, j...@rain.org () writes:
>} I'd suggest that you go to your public library and have them get a copy
>} via inter-library loan of Phil Kerns' book "Fake It Til You Make It",
>} ISBN 0-9609908-0-1. "Amway, The Cult of Free Enterprise" by Steve
>} Butterfield will also help you see the whole picture. Check out the
>} Forbes cover story of Dec. 9, 1991 as well.
>
>Can someone post the forbes story ? Sid ? That is if you already have it
>on disk... don't type it in.
I have only parts of it typed in...here it is.
==============================================================================
"The Power of Positive Inspiration," Forbes 12/9/91
One must turn outside the world of business--to religion and politics--to find
people who work as hard for as little financial reward as most Amway people do.
The fact that Amway is a loose confederation of hotshot sales empires
creates other thorny problems. In years past, several of Amway's wealthiest
distributors created independent empires that published their own magazines,
organized their own rallies and even published their own versions of the
Amway sales and marketing plan.
Known inside Amway as the "Black Hats," these master distributors frequently
indulged in excessively high-pressure methods of exploiting their foot
soldiers, persuading them to shell out hundreds of dollars each for
distributor-produced books, tapes and even unrelated products and investment
schemes.
The problem: If Amway's distributors make such a lot of money from selling
such promotional materials (as opposed to actual products) to new recruits,
then it raises questions of an illegal pyramid scheme.
In 1985 two distributors sued Bill Britt, Dexter Yager and Amway Corp.
among others in the state of Washington, alleging they were "brainwashed"
into purchasing enormous amounts of motivational materials. The case was
settled out of court in 1988, but a gag order was placed on the court
records and participants involved in the case.
Says DeVos: "We're dealing with many motivated entrepreneurial individuals
who are actively seeking to improve their businesses. Through their own lack
of knowledge, they can run afoul of the law, or do things they shouldn't
do."
Why not fire the rascals? Say DeVos: "Whenever you terminate anybody in this
business it sends tremors through the whole organization, because [the
distributors] say, 'Oh, Oh, the company now has the power to kick me out.'
And all those people with the sole idea of owning their own business and
doing their own thing suddenly have a spike driven through their hearts."
---------------------------------------
As with a church or political party, Amway must constantly protect its image
if it is to recruit new members. In some cases, Amway seems to have taken
concern for its image to extremes.
Former distributors and Amway officials say that like many movements based
on a cult of personality, Amway's attitude toward any insider critical of
the organization has bordered on paranoia.
Edward Engel was Amway's chief financial officer until 1979; he resigned
over a disagreement with DeVos and Van Andel on how to run the Canadian
operations. [see comments on the fraud case] That apparently branded him a
traitor; he says he and his family received threats for years after his
resignation. "It was a Big Brother organization," says Engel today.
"Everyone assumed that the phones were tapped, and that Amway had something
on everybody."
In 1983 Engel's former secretary, Dorothy Edgar, was helping the Canadians
in their investigation of the company. She was roughed up in Chicago, after
she was told to "stay away from Amway." Engel, who picked her up after the
incident, says he believes her story. Amway would not comment on the
incident.
There was extremely bad publicity in 1982 when a former distributor, Philip
Kerns, quit to write a damaging expose called "Fake It Til You Make It."
Kerns charges that Amway used private detectives to follow him and rough him
up (see photo below)....In 1984, another former Amway insider, Donald
Gregory, says he started to write a book on Amway, but the company obtained
a gag order against Gregory in Grand Rapids court."
=============================================================================
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ Sidney Schwartz * Beaverton, OR * schw...@teleport.com ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
CVK
You've supplied some especially cogent and insightful perspective, as well
as valuable reference to important information.
Thanks.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
cvko...@halcyon.com | Virtualoso Marketizing
christ...@adicco.wa.com |
|
Sidney Schwartz
>Path:
>you should also check out "who stole the American dream". Go
>Diamond!!
By all means, only read books written by those involved in MLM and who stand to
profit from people joining.
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
[ One must turn outside the world of business--to religion and politics-- ]
[ to find people who work as hard for as little financial reward as most ]
[ Amway people do. --Forbes 12/9/91 ]
[-------------------------------------------------------------------------]
bataras
} In a contribution about Inner Amway Contention, 75404...@CompuServe.COM
wrote:
} >Path:
}
} >you should also check out "who stole the American dream". Go
} >Diamond!!
}
} By all means, only read books written by those involved in MLM and who
stand to
} profit from people joining.
}
}
Did someone in Amway write that ?
Jack Pines
Just a note from the guy who started this thread...Who Stole the American
Dream is not written by someone in Amway or any other MLM. He is an
outside observer that would jeopardize his viewpoint, in his opinion, if
he got inside a MLM before he studied and wrote about them. It's a good
read for anyone who is, or isn't for that matter, interested in MLMs in
general. Also, it makes me want to sue the U.S. government over Social
Security. If you want to know why, read the book. You'll probably agree
with me then.
Nobody has made any educated remarks yet on why Britt and Yeager don't
still work together. Sid, that is not to say you didn't try, but I can
buy any tapes I want, I just don't want to. I can barely afford to buy
the ones I do buy. :-)
Jack
Jack Pines
: In article <3egrb9$7...@freenet3.scri.fsu.edu>, Jack Pines writes:
: Hmmm... I heard it was published by Dex's Internet Services (SP?) company.
: And of course its pushed on his downline.
I may be wrong, but I believe it is republished by Internet. I know that
I have used it to but in what they call an Over Night Pack. It's true
that its main purpose for Dexter's downline is to use for prospecting, but
it is still a good book that is for any MLM or anyone wanting to know what
the government defines a pyramid as.
Jack