bay window install problem
Louis R. Spironello
The first year the seat board of the bay window felt cold. I complained to
the window installer and he eventually came around to fix the problem,
however, he continued to say that the seat will always be cold stating that
the R value of the windows is less than the wall. The technician removed
the bay window skirt and noticed that they did not put any blue foam
insulation below the seat board. I also told them that the capping was
beveled toward the window and not away from the window. They did nothing
about the capping. the apparently put the insulation in but I'm not sure.
I also
noticed that the east casement window of the bay window had difficulty
closing.
Last year I noticed that the bead of caulking between the seat board and the
bottom of the vinyl picture window frame of the bay window had mold on it.
I
thought it may have been because of high humidity levels in the house.
Just recently I noticed that the long pillow which was on the seat board was
getting soaking wet after a rain and it was then that I noticed that the bay
window was leaking between the seat board and the bottom of the vinyl
window.
There is also a downward slope in the seat board from front to back. That is
both the head board and the seat board are not level. The vertical distance
between the seat board at the house side is 53 1/8" and at the external
side(where
the picture window is) it is 53 5/8".
I asked the dealer to come back to fix the leak and the level problem in the
seat board plus a number of other problems in the other window they
installed.
The plywood seat board top also appeared to develop tiny fissures which ran
in the direction
of the grain of the wood and the fissures only appear to be occurring on the
"wet" side of the seat board.
I told him that the seat board had to be replaced and the entire bay window
has to be redone.
He did not agree to this. He did however come back, removed the capping. I
noticed that there was another capping beneath the one he had removed. It
looked as if he made a error in installing the first capping and covered up
the
mistake by recapping over the old capping. A number of screws were
protruding upward through the old capping.
He did not replace the seat board. The technician said in other cases like
this they would just cut out a portion of the seat board and replace that
section not the entire seat board. I found this to be structurally unsound.
He then proceeded to recap the wet plywood and caulked the inside and
outside sealing in the waterlogged plywood seat board.
He also noticed that there were water droplets inside the panes of glass.
He then proceeded to cut the black "weather-stripping" co-extrusion rubber
between the glass and the vinyl frame and removed three sides of the
weather-stripping replacing it with silicon seal. By doing so he voided the
manufacturer's warranty.
After he left I went outside to check the work. I noticed that that miter
cuts on the corner of the capping were not caulked, the top of the capping
was still parallel to the ground, the paint on the house had been chipped.
The manufacturer had originally agreed to send a technical rep out to
investigate the windows only by the request of the dealer, and if the dealer
would not request the rep then I could phone the manufacturer and they would
send one out. However as the weeks progressed and after a number of phoned
calls to the manufacturer the manufacturer refused to send out a tech rep.
The bay window also makes noise when a strong wind is blowing;.
I was also told by the installer not to loose any sleep over this. I was
told by the installer that they had not ordered any products from Northstar
in 4-5 years or more, yet the date stamps on the windows are 9/97.
Now, in order to prove that damage was done to the plywood seat board
someone will have to do a destructive evaluation of the window!
Oh. This installer says they have trained staff!
The manufacturer now refuses to deal with the issue and the dealer refuses
to deal with the issue.
Help.
Can someone give me a professional opinion about the following and can you
tell me what your current profession is:
1. What thickness show the sheet of foam beneath the seat board be, or
what R value should it have?
2. What will happen to the wet plywood which was recapped and why?
3. Should the installer have recapped the plywood without letting the
wood dry?
4. I've been told by the installer that the problem of level with the
seat is really a
problem with the wall of the house.
5. Did the installer commit fraud?
6. Should the entire bay window be replaced?
7. Can you give me your general opinion on the technical competency of
this installer and the
construction methods they've used.
Thank you very much.
Lou
Ontario Canada
Brian Sells
either the installer or the manufacturer. That is exactly the reason that
people are wary of dealing with any kind of contractor.....
You should maybe look into legal action as this problem could cause more
problems which could be more serious.
I have been building residential homes for over 10 yrs now and I know that
someone's head would roll after an episode like that.
Brian Sells
Louis R. Spironello <l...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:IUc%3.193471$5r2.4...@tor-nn1.netcom.ca...
Joe Barta
You see a lot of home improvement advertising... windows, siding,
sunrooms, roofing, etc. Many of these home improvement companies also
offer financing. No big deal, right? Wrong. Most are really in the
financing business. They don't make much on the install. They sub it out
to God knows who and for all intents and purposes, don't give a rat's
ass about the install. They make their money on the financing. They get
high interest, late fees, and sundry other charges. The home
improvements are simply a means to an end. The end being fat nasty
profitable financing. Remember that the next time your friendly
neighborhood contractor offers to side your house for only $69/month.
The lesson? Watch out for home improvements financed through the
contractor. (Or financing "arranged" BY the contractor.)
A variation of "You get what you pay for."
Food for thought.
(Don't know if is applicable in this case.)
- Joe Barta
melissa paulson
2.as far as the noise , that is probably the result of the extrusion
being removed .the installer told you not to lose any sleep over that ,I
would. you are asking for a leak to occur.
3.you can probably silicone around the edge of the window panes
themselves and stop the noise and prevent any leaks .
4.if your house is unlevel or settling, you will continue to have
problems until you fix that problem. that would not be the installers
fault,.
5.the installer is technically at fault for cutting the extrusion.if i
were you i would call a good lawyer and force the contractor to install
a new window. But, you need to check your house for level and settling
also,check the bay window itself for seperation from the house.
6.I have been doing remodeling for 20 years and my suggestions are
this .Either call a lawyer and fight a legal battle or take the bull by
the horns and fix the problem yourself. silicone around the panes should
stop the noise and prevent any leaks . Leveling the house or baywindow
should also help .without seeing the problem in person it is hard to
give you a definet answer, but take my suggestions and try them they
should help.
sincerely,Jeff Buckler .
J.R.B.Services,Scott,La.
Louis R. Spironello
news:81mc32$bic$1...@plonk.apk.net...
Actaully Joe it is not. However, the laws and the government here in
Canada don't seem side on
the side of consumer's as they do in the United States.
> - Joe Barta
>
Louis R. Spironello
news:81ma7a$pqt$1...@nntp1.atl.mindspring.net...
> without a doubt you entire window should be replaced at the expense of
> either the installer or the manufacturer. That is exactly the reason that
> people are wary of dealing with any kind of contractor.....
do anything. Moreover, I phoned the police w.r.t. the issue of fraud and
guess what, the fraud detective I spoke to had his windows installed by the
same company and he went on for 20 minutes praising their workmanship! I
couldn't believe this.
I phoned the Candian Mortgage and Housing Corporation and they agreed with
me w.r.t. the quality of work however, they wouldn't put anything in
writing.
> You should maybe look into legal action as this problem could cause more
> problems which could be more serious.
I agree. I'm drafting a letter the the BBB and local Chamber of Commerce
however, I do not believe that my mother will get any remedy using that
method. My only reason for doing so is to have the complaint on record.
Again, with the legal action, I had spoken to a structural engineer and he
said that if I take this to court the court will probably rule 50/50, which
of course I can't accept which means it will have to go to trial. The
engineer they proceeded to say that I would probably have to "bring the
window to court"!!!!!!!!!!
> I have been building residential homes for over 10 yrs now and I know that
> someone's head would roll after an episode like that.
Instead of that happening I'm finding that this type of shoddy workmanship
is encouraged by the lack of action a number of agencies whould be taking
against these people. I've been doing extensive research on home repair
fraud and I've found that the United States seems to pursue home repair
contractors who promote shoddy workmanship much more aggressively than any
agencies we have here in Canada.
> Brian Sells
Thank you for the information and opinion Brian.
Louis R. Spironello
"melissa paulson" <meaux...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:21834-38...@storefull-237.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
Thank you for the information.
> 1` your warranty was voided when the installer cut the extrusion .
>
> 2.as far as the noise , that is probably the result of the extrusion
> being removed .the installer told you not to lose any sleep over that ,I
> would. you are asking for a leak to occur.
the noise has always been there. It seems to be with the structure of the
entire
bay window itself.
> 3.you can probably silicone around the edge of the window panes
> themselves and stop the noise and prevent any leaks .
That is what the installer did after he ripped off the co-extrusion
which he was not supposed to do.
> 4.if your house is unlevel or settling, you will continue to have
> problems until you fix that problem. that would not be the installers
> fault,.
the house was built in 1952. it has settled by now. the structural
integrity
of the wall it actually ok. the installer, i believe said that just to get
us off
his back.
> 5.the installer is technically at fault for cutting the extrusion.if i
> were you i would call a good lawyer and force the contractor to install
> a new window. But, you need to check your house for level and settling
> also,check the bay window itself for seperation from the house.
lawyer says i'm going to have to take them to small claims court.
There are other problems with some of the other windows they installed
and niether the installer or manufacturer will take respondiblity.
But there is a catch-22. In order to determine the damage of the action of
them
recapping the wood a structural engineer said that they would have to remove
the cap.
Which of course would cost money. However, the installer can then say that
we destroyed the cap ourselves.
> 6.I have been doing remodeling for 20 years and my suggestions are
> this .Either call a lawyer and fight a legal battle or take the bull by
> the horns and fix the problem yourself. silicone around the panes should
> stop the noise and prevent any leaks.
I don't really have the time, effort or resources to fix an entire bay
window by myself.
> Leveling the house or baywindow
> should also help .without seeing the problem in person it is hard to
> give you a definet answer, but take my suggestions and try them they
> should help.
I is clear to me that they measured the opening for the bay window
incorrectly. The slope of the seat board
slants in a different direction than the slope of the head board.
> sincerely,Jeff Buckler .
>
> J.R.B.Services,Scott,La.
>
>
>