Workmen's Compensation...
michael cull
role of workman's compensation insurance and liability insurance. I am not
required by law to carry either. It is the general thought that these types
of insurance protect the homeowner from being sued. However, in my pursuit
to find the cheapest around, I was informed by an insurance agent that these
types of insurance where for MY benefit, not the homeowners. I.E. if an
employee gets hurt, they'll sue ME. And if a homeowner trips over my
extension cord, they can sue ME. I, as the captain of my own ship, can sue
anyone I damn well please. But will I win??? This agent said that an
employee or the owner can sue the homeowner all they want but that they will
not win. (I assume a person would sue for medical and lost wages) Can a
homeowner sue me if they got hurt as a result of my carelessness? (tripping
over extension cords, etc...) Can an employee who gets hurt on the jobsite
sue the homeowner and win?
As the owner, workman's compensation won't even begin to cover my
personal "nut" if I get hurt. I'm looking into "disability insurance" for
myself. (and employees I guess) If I get work comp. does this suddenly make
me a credible contractor for a homeowner? (how do they know if I'm paying my
bills?) It's my understanding that as a General Contractor any Sub
Contractors who do work for me better have work comp. or, once again I can
be sued. (by the employees of the sub contractor) Do they have a "liability
waiver" (like a lien waiver) that I can have employees sign? Or one that I
can offer to a homeowner? Will it hold up in court? Sorry for the
RAMbling.....
sa...@westelcom.com
insurance will cover you from a wide range of liability, damage to the
homeowner's and their property or damage to bystanders and their
property. It is similar in its coverage to a homeowner's policy except
that it also covers your own work. Your employees and the employees of
any subcontractors you use will be covered by WC. There is a whole
separate system of law governing this which limits the claims to a
fixed amount which is covered by your insurance. If you have WC, the
homeowner is pretty much free from liability for injuries suffered by
your employees. This is why it is wise for a homeowner to insist that
the contractor carry worker's comp. Just my limited understanding. ---
Schell McKinley
In article <sm07n4...@corp.supernews.com>,
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Arthur L. Yokell
michael cull <hm...@usmo.com> wrote in message
news:sm07n4...@corp.supernews.com...
Michael:
If you plan to stay in the construction business, you should have workers
comp. insurance & general liability insurance. These are the bare minimum.
In many states you cannot operate without them. In any case, a knowledgeable
"owner" will ask you for certificates of insurance, If you can't provide
them it's adios. Your employee can sue you and the owner and win if he is
hurt on the job. As to subcontractors, you should require a certificate of
insurance from them. My firm will not pay any invoice to a sub unless he has
a current certificate on file with us. If a sub has no insurance and you
still want to work with him, you should calculate the anticipated workers
comp premiums and either add it to your estimate or deduct it from the
subcontract price. Good luck.
Art Yokell
Yokell Sales & Construction, Inc.
Plant City, FL
marXbig
--
marXbig
"michael cull" <hm...@usmo.com> wrote in message
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Arnold
damages!!
Arnold
"marXbig" <marxbi...@home.com> wrote in message
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Shannon Pate
what type of construction work you do, but insurance is a must.
You mention that as the owner workman's compensation will not cover you.
That isnt true. You have the option of being covered or not. The reason
most owners do not opt for coverage is that the workmans comp premium is
based on payroll. Usually the owner is making a signifigant amount of money
but doing limited work, so they opt to pass on coverage. It is a good idea
to obtain "24 hour" medical coverage in this case, because most normal
health insurance programs do not cover job related accidents.
Also remember that workmans comp is based only on payroll to your employees.
For instance here in Alabama, the rate for a carpenter is 16.57% of his
payroll. So if you pay your carpenter $100 then you owe $16.57 to workmans
comp.
The downside to having workmans comp really comes when you utilize
subcontractors for some of your business. If your subcontractor doesnt have
workmans comp, but you do, then you must pay for that subcontractor.
General Liability is important as well, because it protects you in the event
that something goes wrong with your work. You may think you are doing a
high quality caring job, but what if you are using faulty materials and dont
know it. (EIFS or Dryvit is a prime example). When the problem arises, the
homeowner will sue everyone. They will sue the builder, the sub contractor,
the material distributor, and the material manufacturer. Your General
Liability insurance will then provide you with your defense (Lawyers) and
pay any damages or settlements that arise.
Good Luck either way you decide.
Shannon Pate
ASP Homebuilding, Inc
Birmingham, AL
Arnold
Up to the limits of the policy.
Arnold
"Shannon Pate" <spa...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:sm2067...@corp.supernews.com...
Greenlight
rather it is mandated by state law, the contractors' license board, and
required to obtain local building permits, while penalties for violation are
severe. You are exempted if you do not have any employees, but many general
contractors, owners, or builders will not work with you unless you have it.
Other states may very (you didn't say what state you work in) but it should
be easy to check on locally.
As far as teh complex issues of being sued, I am not a lawyer (lawyers make
laws for lawyers in order to make non-lawyers dependent upon them), while
the insurance companies capitalize upon the fear. In that "state of affairs"
how much insurance is "enough" and "who" is culpable in various
circumstances requires a greater expertise (and overhead) far removed from
my ability to drive a nail efficiently into a stud.
So you will have to call your own shots after finding out what is the law,
what will be the level of protection required by your customers in order to
do business, what are your own personal protection requirements, and what
are your protection requirents for your employees. Then you will have to
pass on these costs (and related but often hidden costs) factored in as
doing daily business on to the consumer (a significant cost for many) or
else go broke.
michael cull
Streamline
not you get Workman's Comp Ins and General Liability Ins. You, as a
contractor, are responsible for everyone and anyone that steps onto the
site. If someone stumbles in there at 2 in the morning after a hard drunk
and falls into the unfinished basement, you are responsible. Case would be
that you didn't provide enough of a barrier to prevent people from entering,
even if you did.
Peter Bucy
Workers compensation laws vary from state to state. Any generic
reference to these laws is almost worthless. Still, a few generalities
apply.
In most states, even though you might not be required to carry
workers compensation insurance, you are still liable for any injuries
and losses incurred by your employees and by subcontractors who do not
have insurance.
If you do not have general liability insurance and cause personal
injury or damage to real property or personal property, then you can
be held financially responsible.
The problem with relying on your subs to carry insurance is that
their policy can lapse leaving you totally responsible for any losses.
I can't tell you the number of times that a sub has either tried to
supply a fraudulent insurance certificate or his agent has failed to
notify me that his policy has lapsed.
Get the insurance and just factor it in to the cost of doing
business. That way if a sub's insurance fails, you are still covered.
If you drop a roof truss on your clients new Ferrari, you won't have
to write a check for $150K.
About ten years ago I had to reject a painting sub's bid because he
didn't have general liability insurance. He was infuriated and gave
the old speech that there was no law requiring him to carry such
insurance.
Three weeks later he was working for another builder in the same
neighborhood. Early one Saturday morning one of his crews started
spraying the exterior of a new home. It was really too windy to be
using a airless, but his crew wanted to get the job done.
They did a beautiful job on the house, but the over-spray, consisting
of primer and a topcoat, was all over the shingles. In addition to
that the over-spray, carried by the wind, was deposited on over a
dozen automobiles.
The painter who didn't have insurance was back-charged by the builder
for a new roof (paint does not come off shingles). He was also sued by
the automobile owners insurance companies. His mistake cost over him
over twenty-thousand dollars.
Something else to consider has to do with the homeowner supplying
labor. In Florida and several other states the Builder is totally
liable for any injuries on the job site. If a sub has workers
compensation insurance and one of his people are injured, then his
policy pays. If there is no insurance at that level, then the builder
pays.
In one case the homeowner (new construction) brought his cousin to
the job to install some low voltage lines for his computer network.
The builder did not even know that they were going to do this. The
cousin fell from the second story trusses and injured his back.
Two days later he filed a workers compensation claim against the
builder. This fellow was not even known to the builder and the
homeowner did not have permission to even be on the site doing this
work. When the legal dust cleared, the builder's insurance picked up
the tab for the injury and the builder's great accident rating was
changed, costing him about 15% more on his insurance for the next
several years.
In most states you can include a clause in your contract that will
protect you from this sort of thing. Talk to a lawyer who specializes
in construction law. Most general practitioners are not familiar with
this sort of litigation.
Peter A. Bucy - Home Builder
Charlotte, North Carolina
LanceGecko
>From: Peter Bucy pete...@carolina.rr.com
>Date: 7/9/00 12:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time
<<most of the message carefully snipped>>
> About ten years ago I had to reject a painting sub's bid because he
>didn't have general liability insurance. He was infuriated and gave
>the old speech that there was no law requiring him to carry such
>insurance.
My sister, Louise, is an absolute *stickler* for making sure no one does work
on our property without verified in-effect insurance coverage. We learned the
hard way.
Years ago, a bunch in SoCal called "Champion Roofing" came out to the house --
and brought a very young boy along to help do roof work. The sales people sold
us a pack of untruths, rather than telling us what to really expect.
Not even one of the roofers spoke English and my sister doesn't speak a whole
lot of Spanish, but she's slowly learning it. When they tore off the wrong
section of roof and started doing some serious damage to the front of the
house, all h*ll broke loose. She not only called Champion to get the young
child off the property and made them send someone in a position of
responsibility, but she had also taped the whole thing (it hadn't looked right
to her from the start) and was ready to go to the media. Kaboom!
We learned a lot that day. One, always verify insurance coverage. Two,
communication is important, even if it means specifying in writing that someone
fluent in your language will be on the site at all times. Three, that my sister
has the personality of a rabid dog...which can be a good thing every now and
then. (She's really very nice and doesn't bite too often.)
We also got an entirely new roof, done by a completely different team (who were
all over legal working age and could communicate with us), for a sum greatly
reduced from the original price...which eliminated a nasty court case and the
showing of the videotape coverage of the initial bunch damaging things.
For my reno job in progress, sis required everyone from the GC to the subs to
provide proof of insurance coverage -- and she called to verify everything
would be in effect throughout the timeframe of the job.
We've been very fortunate that the GC and subs all shared our view that this is
an important issue. It was actually a selling point in several instances, and
just plain ol' good business all the way 'round.
-- Lydia