Slab on Grade
Jackytar
construction. As a Canadian living in the deep south I am not familiar with
this type of foundation and I'm wondering about it's life expectancy. I've
asked around with no straight answer... and it seems all of the older homes
around here are pier and beam so I have nothing to go by. Does the slab
and/or the buried plumbing eventually fail, even with good maintenance or
can one keep such a home indefinitely (i.e. 100+ yr.).
Thanks,
Lawrence
Baton Rouge
Don Linsenbach
"Jackytar" <nob...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:BdgL8.2881$ks5.2...@news2.east.cox.net...
Only if you can manage to live 100+ years. ;-)
There are slab on grade homes around here that are more than 50 years old.
Eric Lee Green
There are a number of varieties of slab-on-grade, with varying amounts
and layout of steel and footers. In general, plain old slab-on-grade
works fine when the soil underneath it was properly prepared, and will
last indefinitely as long as the soil doesn't move. In areas with
expansive soil one must be very careful with the watering and drainage
so that it does not get unevenly watered (which will cause uneven
swelling of the soil, which can cause the slab to crack and
move). It's usually quite easy to see whether your slab is going to
last indefinitely. If you are looking at an 18yo house, if that slab
was going to move, it would have already moved. If it hasn't moved, it
won't move. Look for cracks. Hairline cracks are no big deal. If you
can stick a dime in the crack, you want this slab inspected by an
foundation inspector before going any further.
Note that a slab that's failing can be propped up virtually forever
using the same technologies used to keep oil wells from collapsing
(hydraulic fluid pumping, where the "fluid" may very well be
concrete), but this can get expensive and has its own potential
problems, so it's not something you want to jump into. Still, if
something happens in the future, in slab-on-grade areas you'll find
that there's a number of people advertising on television that they
can do that kind of repair.
Now, the buried plumbing is a different story. Yes, the buried
plumbing will eventually fail. However, WHEN it fails depends upon
your local water, and what kind of plumbing it is (copper, PVC/CPVC,
iron). For an 18 year old house, it'll be either copper or
PVC/CPVC. You won't have to worry about either of those for another 20
years or more, unless your water is really horrid. Replacement of buried
pipes is expensive, but plumbers in slab-on-grade areas are experts in
doing so.
Basic conclusion: slab-on-grade can last pretty much forever, albeit it
can get expensive after 50 years or so when the plumbing starts to go.
About the only thing that can cause slab-on-grade to be irretreivably
broken is if it's built on expansive soil without the proper ground
preparation and/or steel reinforcement. But for an 18 year old house,
this is easy to detect -- look for cracks, and if any are suspiciously
large or there appears to be cracks in the bricks and drywall,
it's time for a foundation inspection. In short, if the slab is fine
after 18 years, it'll be fine for another 80 years probably. I think
that's what you want to know?
--
Eric Lee Green er...@badtux.org http://badtux.org
GnuPG public key at http://badtux.org/eric/eric.gpg
Thomas G. Baker
Jackytar wrote:
Mr. Green did a great job of describing the pros and cons of slab on grade. I
would add that one should check the drainage on site and in the area, since
one is so close to the ground. In addition, I'd check the distance between
grade and the bottom edge of siding. The tendency to do planting beds next to
buildings raises the ground level, and that can lead to easy access for
termites and the like as well as rot.
Tom Baker
Charleston
(in the Low Country of SC)
Jackytar
your post. I had the home inspected and no slab problems were noted although
the current owner did report some door sticking after a recent two year
drought that has since resolved. My current home, a 50 y/o pier and beam,
also had substantial movement in the foundation during the same period (that
didn't resolve). The slab home is otherwise of above average construction in
workmanship, materials, and fit and finish. It was built as the personal
home of two home designers so I'm hoping that some thought was put into the
quality of the slab and plumbing as well.
Thanks again,
Lawrence
"Eric Lee Green" <er...@badtux.org> wrote in message
news:slrnafr98...@badtux.org...
Jackytar
to have, a lot of problems with rot. The current owner spent $25,000
repairing rotted wood and window frames and my inspector found about $3,000
more that needs to be done. Just about all of the rot occurred on the north
side in a treed and landscaped area. The trees and a wood deck have since
been removed but I will be caulking and sealing and installing some awnings
on the advise of the home inspector. He also recommends sealing the edge of
the slab.
You know, pier and beam seems to be the way to go in this area but few new
homes are built that way, I guess b/c of the expense. My current p&b home is
over 50 yr old and has never had any rot or termites. And I can remodel or
fix broken pipes w/o a jackhammer.
Thanks for your reply,
Lawrence
"Thomas G. Baker" <tgb...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3CFDFCEB...@mindspring.com...
Jackytar
"Don Linsenbach" wrote:
> Only if you can manage to live 100+ years. ;-)
We Canadians lead pure and temperate lives. :^)
> There are slab on grade homes around here that are more than 50 years old.
I guess what I am concerned about is owning home with a declining relative
market value b/c of anticipated problems with the aging slab. Nothing is
built to last these days, or so it seems. New homes around here are
generally not erected by craftsmen who take pride in their workmanship and
reputation. And consumers for the most part care only about how much square
footage they are getting. Nobody cares what the home will be like in 30 or
40 yrs because neither the builder or buyer are likely to have a vested
interest in the home then. So I'm not so much worried about having problems
during my ownership as I am trying to sell the home in 10 or 15 yrs to a
person who is rightfully concerned. One thing's for sure, if I keep worrying
so much I definitely won't make it to 100.
Eric Lee Green
> You know, pier and beam seems to be the way to go in this area but few new
> homes are built that way, I guess b/c of the expense. My current p&b home is
> over 50 yr old and has never had any rot or termites. And I can remodel or
> fix broken pipes w/o a jackhammer.
Pier and beam was once the "standard" way to build homes in the South.
Houses were built up on piers to keep them above insects and water, and
were generally sided with wooden planks.
Somewhere around 1950 or so, though, somebody seems to have convinced
Southerners that their stately homes up on piers were
old-fashioned. Old timey. Not modern. Not "with it". Not a proper
abode for the Atomic Age. Stately old homes were torn down all over
the South and replaced with look-alike "modern" homes, or relegated to
decay for use by "those" people (you know who I'm talking about,
"those" people, the ones who don't look like us or talk likes
us). These "modern" builders convinced people that they really wanted
to live in brick houses. Brick veneer, that is (since nobody can
afford "real" brick buildings today). Now, you need a continuous
foundation to support brick. The cheapest continuous foundation in a
no-frost area is a concrete slab. So Southern homes suddenly ended up
right down on the ground with the termites. Talk about a windfall for
the Orkin Man!
In other words: we're not talking about a matter of expense causing the
sudden demise of the pier-and-beam. We're talking about a matter of
style. Pier-and-beam was suddenly "old fashioned". Not "with it".
"Old timey". Unfashionable. All that unseemly painting of wood was
"drudgery". Brick was "it". Brick was "high class". If you lived in a
"brick house", you were better than people who lived in one of those
"old timey" pier-and-beam "wooden houses".
The funny part is that in parts of the South where the Yankees are
moving in, guess what kind of houses they're often buying and
renovating? You betcha, those stately old manors that the locals
deride as "old fashioned", "old timey", and "unfashionable"!
Don Linsenbach
It's very true, that nobody seems to care about their workmanship anymore.
I'm 3 weeks from completing our house.
My role during the past few months has been to come in behind every trade
and repair/fix/re-do almost everything the trades attempted to do.
If you know what you're doing, and have the time and money to spend, you can
build your own house, probably better than anyone else can.
I'm assuming you are wanting to build a frame house on a concrete slab ?
How do you intend to clad the exterior of the frame, siding, stucco, or
something else ?
As long as the slab and frame are high and dry, I don't think you'll see any
rot for a long time.
Rico dJour
>> built to last these days, or so it seems. New homes around here are
>> generally not erected by craftsmen who take pride in their workmanship and
>> reputation. And consumers for the most part care only about how much
>square
>> footage they are getting. Nobody cares what the home will be like in 30 or
>> 40 yrs because neither the builder or buyer are likely to have a vested
>> interest in the home then. So I'm not so much worried about having
>problems
>> during my ownership as I am trying to sell the home in 10 or 15 yrs to a
>> person who is rightfully concerned.
>
>I'm 3 weeks from completing our house.
>My role during the past few months has been to come in behind every trade
>and repair/fix/re-do almost everything the trades attempted to do.
>If you know what you're doing, and have the time and money to spend, you can
>build your own house, probably better than anyone else can.
If you know what you are doing you know that good work costs up front and pays
off down the road. Most people give that lip service but can't quite come up
with the money to buy the skill/pride/quality they want.
Take a look at the residential painting industry in this country. Painting is
one of the lowest paying jobs in any part of the US and there are often no
requirements at all other than having a license to conduct business (and many
ignore even that). The paints that are used, all of them, are pretty much
crap. That is what people pay for and that is what they get. $30/gallon seems
like a lot, but compare that to the cost of paints in the marine or automotive
industry where there are very specific requirements for paints and people are
willing to pay for the quality. $100-$300/gallon is not unusual. Of course
there is a big difference in surface area, but the point is that, in paint, you
pay for the pigments - which is the expensive part. The painting industry has
concluded that people are not willing to pay for the pigments, so they leave
them out and give us CHEAP paint.
Who's to blame?
R
BTW I disagree with the "nobody seems to care anymore" stuff. Aristotle was
saying the same thing. The attitude comes with age, which I refuse to do.
Don Linsenbach
"Rico dJour" <rico...@aol.computer> wrote in message
news:20020606110316...@mb-de.aol.com...
Fine, lets talk about painting, since it was a major area of contention
first thing this morning.
A month ago I faxed my paint requirments to the painter, paint numbers,
color codes and even a CAD graphic indicating which paints went where.
I kept things simple, paint everything : FlexBon *white-white*, flat latex
on all interior walls, satin enamel on all interior woorwork, 2 coats of
satin latex on all exterior CBS walls.
He told me the cost, and I approved it.
He spent 3 days painting everything.
After he left the site I went an inspected it.
The entire right side of the house hadn't been painted, nor had the left
side of the raised entry walls, nor the 16"sq. rear porch columns.
The tops of the plant shelves hadn't been painted, and the sides of the door
casings hadn't been painted either. Not only that, but there were random
areas where he used enamel on the drywall ! And little dings all over the
walls at 6'8" above the floor where the doors had been leaned while being
painted.
Nowhere in his contract did he state that he *wasn't* going to complete the
paint job or do the other things mentioned above.
The contractor told me this morning that he would get the painter out there
to fix it.
I told him to forget it, keep the guy off the site, I will fix it this
weekend.
There is absolutely no excuse for shabby work like that, none at all.
And this has been consistent with almost all of the trades so far.
So don't give me this stuff about not making enough money.
I told them what I wanted, they told me the price, and I paid them without
hassling them about the money.
Yet I get shitty work, that must be redone at additional expense by myself.
Next house, I will do all of it myself, and avoid all the aggravation.....
Rico dJour
Hey Don. It sounds like the guy wasn't finished - no one can leave out all
that stuff accidently. It sounds like you did the right things, but I have no
idea of the parties involved, etc. Two questions: Why did you use a
contractor to secure the painter? And why are you letting the guy off the
hook? If the contractor was going to make the painter come back and finish,
you should let them. If you don't hold the contractor responsible, and the
contractor doesn't hold the painter responsible, who wins?
R
Don Linsenbach
"Rico dJour" <rico...@aol.computer> wrote in message
Apparantly he thought he was finished.
It was a week ago today, that he left, and hasn't come back.
It sounds like you did the right things, but I have no
> idea of the parties involved, etc. Two questions: Why did you use a
> contractor to secure the painter?
I was going to use my brother, but the contractor advised me against
nepotism, and claimed the painter he recommended had 20+ years experience.
Made sense to me, at the time.
Guess what, I learned something.
20+ years experience doesn't necessarily mean anything.
My brother and I will finish the job, correctly, this weekend.
And why are you letting the guy off the
> hook?
Since the painter has left, my pool deck was installed.
After seeing the *quality* of the painters work, I don't want him anywhere
around my pool deck.
If he oversprayed on my dark gray coping or decking material, I'd probably
ignite right on the spot.
If the contractor was going to make the painter come back and finish,
> you should let them. If you don't hold the contractor responsible, and
the
> contractor doesn't hold the painter responsible, who wins?
It's not about winning anymore.
It's about, how much can one person stand.
I've had it up to here with assholes that don't care about their work.
I'm tired of fixing other people mistakes.
I'd rather just do the work myself, the way I want it, and get on with it.
As far as holding people responsible ?
What a joke.
If I was to attempt to do that, I'd be spending the rest of my life in
court.....
I just want my house finished, NOW !
But it looks like it's gonna be another 3 weeks.....
Painting tip of the day :
When spraying close to the floor, first pull the trigger back 1/2 way,
releasing air only, and paint close to the floor.
This will blow all the dust out from under the drywall.
Then, you will be able to pull the trigger back all the way to release
paint, without blowing said dust up on the wall surface and effectively
giving the lower portions of your walls a *textured* finish. (the 20 year
painter didn't know this, but my brother did)