Rain/Snow Exposure on New Construction
martoQ
building. We started building in August and our builder has dragged his
feet through the entire process. In any event, they twice now, our house
has been exposed to the elements. The first time, the subfloor of the
first floor was exposed to 2 days worth of moderate rain. It did dry up
the next day so I wasn't overly concerned. But last night we receive
approximately 5-7 inches of snow. Our second story subfloor is still
completely exposed and the snow just packed on. I am very concerned and
am wondering what I should be looking for in the lines of possible damage
to the wood. I am hopeful the framers will be there monday morning and
begin clearing the snow off, but then again, I know framers don't usually
work in the rain, will they work in the snow?
Just a very tired, and frustrating process right now. Not to mention our
6 month rate lock is just about up and we will have to reapply for a home
mortgage because the builder has taken so long!
Any help on the weathering issue would be GREATLY appreciated.
-A tired furture home owner, martoQ
JmG
>|Just a very tired, and frustrating process right now. Not to mention our
>|6 month rate lock is just about up and we will have to reapply for a home
>|mortgage because the builder has taken so long!
Where are you and who is your builder?
J
Rico dJour
damaging to you or your house. Building a house can be very nerve-wracking.
Remember to remain calm and communicate with your builder and designer. It is
not your builder's job to explicitly describe in detail every single nail as it
is being pounded, but it is expected for the builder to communicate. If you
have questions ask them. If you have a LOT of questions spread them out and do
some research at the library. You'll enjoy your house a lot more when you
understand how it goes together, and it will help you ask the right questions.
It is common for the uncompleted shell to get weather deposited on it...then it
is common for the completed shell to get weather deposited on it. It is when
interior materials (drywall, insulation, finish flooring, etc.) get exposed to
the weather that there is a concern. A few inches of snow is not a problem
during framing, ice is. No one wants anyone injured on a job because someone
was in a hurry. It is to your builder's benefit to get the shell closed in as
quickly as possible.
Jobs always get delayed - it's just a fact of life. The odds are extremely
good that your contract specifically mentions delays due to weather, strikes,
acts of war, and other acts beyond the builder's control as legitimate reasons
for delay, and provides for an extension of the allowed project time to
completion. You deserve a straight answer to the reason for any unusual delay.
Snowballing delays due to subcontractor delays is not pleasant but neither is
it unusual. Ask for specific dates for the start of particular items of
construction. It's always easy to determine the beginning of an installation,
but the completion is usually open to debate/arguments due to differences in
the interpretation of "complete".
If it's any consolation, reapplying for the mortgage now will probably give you
a better rate than six months ago.
Home building can be nerve-wracking. Maintain your equilibrium by long walks
with the dog (always highly recommended), paddle tennis or whatever helps
(drinking and yelling at the builder don't qualify). It is important to enjoy
the process as well as the finished product. It's not going to benefit YOU if
you have resentment for a building delay every time you're looking at the house
for as long as you're living there.
I am not telling you to roll over and live with major delays and poor
workmanship, but as I said in the beginning, there's nothing that you are
experiencing that sounds unusual.
R
THOMAS MURPHY
and do the job on your schedule not his. when you find such a builder fire
your old builder. No excuse for your house to take so long. No excuse for
him to "drag his feet". Dump him.
"martoQ" <mar...@tetramid.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.167da5b36...@news.nycap.rr.com...
Joe Barta
> Your house should be done by now. Look for another builder who
> can come in and do the job on your schedule not his. when you
> find such a builder fire your old builder. No excuse for your
> house to take so long. No excuse for him to "drag his feet".
> Dump him.
Mr Murphy, what is your connection to the home building business?
From where does your experience and wisdom come?
- Joe Barta
Rico dJour
Hey Joe. It really doesn't matter what his experience is - he's counseling a
nervous homeowner to get into a lawsuit and REALLY delay the construction.
Even lawyers don't do that.
R
Cecil
Rico, did you post here in the past under Rick V.?
There's no particular reason I'm asking. Just curious.
Cecil
I don't see the relevance of either question.
Mr. Murphy's paragraph can be summed up in one claim:
"Your house should be done by now."
As you and I both know, he doesn't have enough information
about the job to make such a statement. Whether he is the
best builder in the world or the worst isn't going to change
that.
Joe Barta
>>THOMAS MURPHY wrote:
>>
>>> Your house should be done by now. Look for another builder who
>>> can come in and do the job on your schedule not his. when you
>>> find such a builder fire your old builder. No excuse for your
>>> house to take so long. No excuse for him to "drag his feet".
>>> Dump him.
>>
>>Mr Murphy, what is your connection to the home building business?
>>From where does your experience and wisdom come?
>>
>>- Joe Barta
>
> Hey Joe. It really doesn't matter what his experience is
Just trying to draw him out a little. The original poster might wish
to know what's behind such seemingly foolish and ignorant advice. I
figured I'd give him the benefit of the doubt, or hand him some
rope... whichever the case may be.
- Joe Barta
Brian Elfert
>If it's any consolation, reapplying for the mortgage now will probably give you
>a better rate than six months ago.
I got a five month lock back on July 10th at 7.25%. Guess what, the lock expires today, and rates are
up to 7.25% today. (I did get a 5 day extension on the lock, as my closing is Friday.)
Mortgage rates have skyrocketed in the past two to three weeks.
Brian Elfert
martoQ
Just some quick facts to clarify things.
1) We had heard bad things about the builders "process" in which you
basically go through hell to get the house done, but you will be very
happy with the finished product. I have seen a few of the finished
products and agree that the finished product is worth it.
2) Its in a development. There was a 5 acre plot we wanted to build on
largely due to its location and views. So we were forced to use this
builder, he was not our choice, "came with the package" if you will.
3) I know he took on more than he can handle. In his own admitance he is
trying to GC for 28 homes in the area. Not to go into to-to much detail,
he does not have the resources to back that endevour.
4) As for dumping him, thats not a possibility as seen in number 2.
5) In consultation with my lawyer, a lawsuit is an option should I lose
my rate lock. Rates have climbed in the past week or two but appear to
be going down again so I will more than likely wait it out. Either way a
lawsuit will drag things.
May main concern at this point is the snow. I have read several archives
of this newgroup and have lurked here for awhile now. I have seen
several answers for rain, and how its not that big a deal and there is
nothing you can do about it. I understand that there are similarities to
the snow. Its mother-nature and these are the breaks, suck it up, so to
speak. What I am looking is some constructive info. The snow is sitting
there now. The subfloor is standard tounge-and-groove, pressure treated.
Now, what should I be on the look out for, IF damage has taken place? I
tend to like to be on the educated side of situations and I don't want my
builder telling me "everything is fine" when it isn't. But I need to
know that myself.
I know to look for warping, and soaking on the underside of the subfloor.
What else should I look for, and also will snow make a difference as to
damage verses rain? IE will the freezing and thawing cause additional
problems?
Thanks in advance.
In article <LuVQ7.4599$IF.905...@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com>,
tmu...@prodigy.net says...
Rico dJour
>of this newgroup and have lurked here for awhile now. I have seen
>several answers for rain, and how its not that big a deal and there is
>nothing you can do about it. I understand that there are similarities to
>the snow. Its mother-nature and these are the breaks, suck it up, so to
>speak. What I am looking is some constructive info. The snow is sitting
>there now. The subfloor is standard tounge-and-groove, pressure treated.
>Now, what should I be on the look out for, IF damage has taken place?
Dude, as a character in a sitcom says, "Whatcya talking about, Willis?!"
Standard tongue-and-groove, pressure treated? I guess you mean T&G plywood,
and not 1x material, but pressure-treated? For a subfloor?! Double check what
you have, read the label, and let us know.
I don't know why anyone would want to use a PT subfloor. I can't see any
benefits, and it won't make up for poor construction detailing.
From your other points, you've given your own answer. You know the situation
and knew it when you got into it. There's nothing anyone here can do. It's
between you and your builder. Lawsuits are always options - usually extremely
poor ones.
R
Cecil
Snow is better than rain, and rain is only a problem with osb.
>IE will the freezing and thawing cause additional problems?
No, not at this point.
Shannon Pate
it off the floor and there should be no problem. Dont get it off and it
turns to water...still should be no problem. The wood will dry out. You
dont need to check to see if its soaked on the underside. That is something
you would do if you couldnt see the topside because of finish flooring. You
said you've read archives on this subject, but the professional builders and
contractors always answer this one the same (RARE). The top layer of the
plywood may delaminate a little and ripple. This isnt a major catastrophe
either. The builder can either cut out the damaged sections and replace
them, or scrape the bubbled areas and fill the depressions, or put finish
floor down without a problem (depending on flooring type and prep)
ASP
"martoQ" <mar...@tetramid.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.167f2d9f8...@news.nycap.rr.com...
Gary
"Rico dJour" <rico...@aol.computer> wrote in message
news:20011209234632...@mb-de.aol.com...
You know how long it would take to find a new builder and try to break the
contract with the present builder. Plus the cost involved. Nowhere near
worth it.
Gary
"Brian Elfert" <bel...@visi.com> wrote in message
news:1K8R7.42706$H7.62...@ruti.visi.com...
Gary
these same guys cover the subfloor with ply. I don't know what will happen
in the future or how much the osb shrinks back when it dries. But I'd want
ply for both sub & underlay.
"martoQ" <mar...@tetramid.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.167f2d9f8...@news.nycap.rr.com...
steve robinson
long when it dries out
your builder should have dropped tarpaulins over the floor to minimise
any snow contact
"martoQ" <mar...@tetramid.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.167f2d9f8...@news.nycap.rr.com...
Joe Barta
> your t&g floor will show large shrinkage gaps if allowed to stay
> wet to long when it dries out your builder should have dropped
> tarpaulins over the floor to minimise any snow contact
Now there's a bright idea. I can see you haven't done much framing
in the winter. I suppose if you're dealing with a 12x14 room
addition, an overnight tarp is do-able... but a whole house, or even
large addition? You'd find that in practice this would be quite
ineffective, highly annoying, possibly dangerous and an overall
waste of valuable time.
Houses are built OUTSIDE. Weather on subflooring is a fact of
building life... trying to fight it is counterproductive to the
extreme. Implying that a builder is neglectful, or the home will
suffer damage because the house isn't tarped during framing is
irresponsible and ignorant.
- Joe Barta
Rico dJour
>long when it dries out
>your builder should have dropped tarpaulins over the floor to minimise
>any snow contact
Hey Steve. We're still waiting to hear from the original poster if he indeed
means tongue & groove, or tongue and groove plywood. He's mentioned that it's
pressure treated, which, over here usually means it is designed to withstand
weather and even ground contact. Either way, some snow won't hurt a subfloor -
it'll dry out before the finish flooring goes down. From your email address
I'm gathering you do interiors where T&G means would strip flooring - snow on
that would be a disaster.
He needs to clarify before the prescription is written.
R
Rico dJour
>waste of valuable time.
What other type of time is there, Joe? :)
R
martoQ
Subfloor tongue & groove. Standard stuff. I am familar with the
hardwood tounge and groove and no thats not exposed and yeah that WOULD
be a disaster. ;-)
In article <20011211090205...@mb-ck.aol.com>,
rico...@aol.computer says...
Rico dJour
>Subfloor tongue & groove. Standard stuff.
The standard stuff can take standard conditions. A little snow won't harm it.
You are worrying too much!
You knew the builder was chewing a big nut by working on nearly thirty homes.
You knew he was overextended. You made your decision to buy that lot and go
with that builder back then. Getting cranky at the builder now won't help. It
certainly won't help the house.
Let's put this another way. My brother, when pressured by an owner about
delays (whether real or perceived), would ask if the owner wanted the job done
in two days - asking him dead seriously if he wanted the project finished in
two days. The implication being that if that was the most important thing to
the owner, he was prepared to cut as many corners as possible to keep the owner
"happy". They always backed down.
Whether you realize it or not, the finished product is what you are buying. If
you wanted it immediately you would have bought an exisiting home. But you
chose to have a home built for you. Any stipulations as to time should have
been written into your contract (Time is of the Essence phraseology)
beforehand.
Rx - stress management.
R
Gary
summer and I went to look through some sites. The OSB floors were drenched
and pooled with water. Won't that do damage? I was taking off my shoes
before entering the houses because of the mud I had on them walking up to
the house. Walked around barefoot. (Safety people need not post I am a big
boy). It seemed that a tarp or two could have been thrown over the trusses
to minimise water penetration.
Gary
"Joe Barta" <jba...@apk.net> wrote in message
news:Xns917452365A0...@206.183.6.17...
Joe Barta
> How about tarping over?
In theory, sure. In practice, fuh-get about it.
> Is this feasible?
There's a big difference between feasible and practical, or feasible
and useful, or feasible and necessary. To answer your question...
yes, it's feasible.
> We had a big rain
> here this summer and I went to look through some sites. The OSB
> floors were drenched and pooled with water.
Drilling a few 1" holes in the middle of those puddles will help
keep ponding to a minimum.
> Won't that do
> damage?
Minor. Very normal and easily addressed after the house is closed
up. Trying to keep water off the subfloor is a much bigger
proposition than dealing with minor swelling or delamination later.
What folks fail to realize is that this is a normal part of
building... not something to worry about or "do something" about.
> I was taking off my shoes before entering the houses
> because of the mud I had on them walking up to the house. Walked
> around barefoot. (Safety people need not post I am a big boy).
> It seemed that a tarp or two could have been thrown over the
> trusses to minimise water penetration.
Things not always as seem. (Mr Miagi)
Not only would the tarp be fairly ineffective, but...
* Who buys the tarps?
* Who drapes them all over everything every day?
* Who pulls them off every morning?
* How would you keep them in place in the wind?
* What about blowing rain?
* What about snow?
* Should the tarp go up if there's a downpour during the day?
* If the subfloor still gets wet, who gets yelled at?
* If the tarp should fill with a quantity of water, how will
you keep it off the subfloor?
* How would you tarp over a bunch of walls?
* Who re-sets trusses when they fall over because the tarp
acted as a big sail?
* Who pays the framer extra because of several extra man hours
per day screwing around with tarps?
Get the picture?
If it were a good idea it would probably be common practice.
- Joe Barta