Crooked Walls?
RSV111
I posted a message about a week ago regarding a warped and cracked center beam.
I have a structural engineer coming out tomorrow (they're not cheap$$) to
assess the problem and I'll let you know what he says. Now another issue I
plan to bring up to the engineer. A couple nights agot, my wife and I were
sitting in the family room when she told me to look at one of the walls in the
kitchen. I put a level up to it and (this is no bullsh*t) it's off by 1 3/4"
in its 10' height - this wall runs about 12' long. Now armed with my level, I
literally went over every wall in the house. The south wall in the living room
is just as bad. This wall runs 10' high by 22' long; it's the first time I
noticed a 1/2" gap in the window frame against the drywall and at its worst
section, the wall is off by about 1 3/4". Again, I purchased this house as a
total rehab and they extended the existing house by roughly 15' and added a
second story. It seems as if the builders did an absolute sh*t framing job on
certain areas. A few questions to the group - unless I am mistaken, the
drywall has to be removed and the framing straightened on these crooked walls
to properly fix them. Is this the case or am I missing something? What would
be considered an acceptable range of "out of level"? The builder gave me a one
year warranty against "defects in materials and workmanship". I'm a little
worried about these guys "fixing" this given their track record and apparently
not knowing how to use a level. I'm going to have the engineer document this
and recommend a fix, but why would the builder let something this obvious go?
Between the floors and the walls, this looks like extensive repairs that need
to be done. Any thoughts on why they let this stuff go knowing there was a
chance of having to make major repairs later?
Thanks,
Roy
Bill Martin
My guess is the foundation sank in places...or the foundation timbers
rotted...or some combination. A sloppy framer still can hardly put up a
wall 1/2 inch out of plumb. A stoned framer can forget to straighten
walls at all. The builder re-habbing the structure should have leveled
the foundation, but there is no law saying he has to straighten up an
old house before selling it, as long as it is safe. The price of your
purchase would influence my feelings. If it was bought cheap, O well. If
the foundation is now stable and sound, I would probably do nothing, and
consider it a cosmetic flaw. If he asked top dollar for a restored
house, I would be mad, and ask him to please fix it under warranty.
Bill
Joe Supulski
Roy:
Point all of these things out to the engineer.
The walls may be out of plumb if they are the bearing walls because of
the beam issue.
Hang in their.
You might have recourse to hire your own contractor or use the one your
engineer recommends and be reimbursed by the
contractor who sold you the house. Of course it
may take the help of your attorney.
Be patient until tomorrow. We are all behind you!
Joe
RSV111
Bill,
Unfortunately, I paid top dollar for this place and it was sold to me as a
"totally restored house". It's going to get interesting and unfortunately,
expensive for me in the short run.
Roy
E.'Femi Olarewaju
Don't give yourself sleepless nights over these minor defects, the only harm
crooked walls do is to your sense of aesthetics if they are visibly crooked.
If they don't look bad, don't waste money trying to fix these walls.
RSV111 wrote in message <19980101171...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
Bob Botts
>Don't give yourself sleepless nights over these minor defects, the only harm
>crooked walls do is to your sense of aesthetics if they are visibly crooked.
>If they don't look bad, don't waste money trying to fix these walls.
I'll have to take issue with this point.
The home owner may find many additional headaches and monetary costs
associated with out of plumb walls especially when adding such things as wall
hung cabinets which don't usually allow for such tolerances. Wallpaper with
lined patterns accentuates the defects, etc.
Cheers...bob
E.'Femi Olarewaju
RSV111 wrote in message <19980101171...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
>I posted a message about a week ago regarding a warped and cracked center
beam.
> I have a structural engineer coming out tomorrow (they're not cheap$$) to
Don't get bent out of shape over minor defects. A crooked wall is often
quite benign as far as structural problems go, the only problem is the
assult to your aesthetic senses, i.e. if it is visibly crooked, if you gotta
take a level to it to find out, then forget about it!
Jeff Robson
Roy the framers/builders in question should have, and obviously didn't check
the existing wall they attached to. What happened was they built the new
wall that runs perpendicular to your existing wall with the dimension on the
top of the wall being the same as the dimension on the bottom. This is a
standard framing practice and under normal conditions poses no problem. In
all likelihood structurally you will have no trouble with the addition.
However I own and operate a firm that does both construct new homes and
renovate existing ones and there is no way that should have slid through as
acceptably out of plumb. While it took a while for your wife and you to
notice the defect, your general contractor most certainly did or should have
and taken corrective measures when the repair was a matter of a few minutes
instead of letting it slide! I won't accept 3/4" out of plumb on a wall and
must say 1 3/4" even over 10' is grossly unacceptable. It is unfortunate
that this type of thing happens and I feel for the builder in the respect
that he/she can't be on site at all times. Sub-trades are usually paid on a
piece work basis, therefore time is money to them. A mistake was made and
they too let it slide hoping the General contractor wouldn't catch it or
wouldn't care. Somehow it went through and you are left on the hook with it.
In your future endeavors of this type ask around and talk to a few others
the contractor has worked for before you sign on the dotted line.
RSV111 wrote in message <19980101171...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...
>I posted a message about a week ago regarding a warped and cracked center
beam.
> I have a structural engineer coming out tomorrow (they're not cheap$$) to
Joe Supulski
Roy was sold a home that was owned and renovated by an A**hole General
Contractor.
We are waiting the results of his engineers'
inspection..
Joe
General Contractor
Stay tuned
RSV111
Joe,
The contractor purchased the original home, did the work (himself and probably
some subs) then put it on the market. It's going to get interesting because I
have a one year warranty on the house and the lawyers at work say I "got him"
when it comes to fixing some of this stuff. I say some because the engineer
came out last Friday to look at the problem(s) and a report is due back to me
sometime at the middle of this week. The obvious to him - the center girder is
indeed split and warped as I said. This splitting and warping is causing the
subfloor along the center girder to go up in one direction of the split and
down the other resulting in the floors being uneven along the center girder.
He felt that the splitting and and bowing probably wasn't a structural problem
in itself, but he felt I might be pushing the limits given that the second
story was added (he was going to run the numbers and get back to me). He said
replacing the center beam and leveling the joists at this point wouldn't be
worth it and that I would wind up creating more problems in the long run. It
should have been done before the second story was added. With respect to the
crooked walls, again he felt there were no structural problems, but to fix it,
the drywall had to be removed along all of the wall. The contractor is going
to fix this one. I'll get back to you with the results of the engineers
numbers.
Joe Supulski
Good for you. Keep us posted BTW where are you? I'm in NE Pa.
RSV111
Joe,
I live in Chicago, IL.
Roy
Joe Supulski
Northeast Pa.. Go BULLS!
Don Phillips
> A few questions to the group - unless I am mistaken, the
> drywall has to be removed and the framing straightened on these crooked
walls
> to properly fix them. Is this the case or am I missing something?
A creative framer may put up some furring and board over the old board.
This give you a straight wall but you may lose a couple of inches of
interior space. A lot of work but a little cheaper than taking out the
board and moving studs. Some of the studs may be load bearing and moving
them is more complicated.
Unless there is fraud involved and you can prove it, you may want to live
with it. If you and your building inspector did not notice the problems
prior to the closing, then perhaps it is not bad enough to mess with.
Don Phillips
Bob Botts <bobb...@spectranet.ca> wrote in article
<bobbotts.3...@spectranet.ca>...
> The home owner may find many additional headaches and monetary costs
> associated with out of plumb walls especially when adding such things as
wall
> hung cabinets which don't usually allow for such tolerances. Wallpaper
with
> lined patterns accentuates the defects, etc.
You can shim and furr out for these special problems. A typical homeowner
would not add much built in carpentry.
Jeff
On 9 Jan 1998 03:40:20 GMT, "Don Phillips"
<don.phi...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> don't think building inspectors look for out of plumb corners or crooked walls
Frank Wells
I am unsure of the original posting - just got back to the group after an absence. If
the crooked wall can be wallpapered in a leafy pattern (jungle/forest), you might be
surprised to see how much of a bad wall will disappear into the pattern. Just my
$.02.
MDearb3216
First: where do you live (what region?), for purpose of determining building
material used. Second: Poor framing is usually the result of a contractor
reducing overhead by hiring apprentices and sending them to do a journey level
job. Third: The fix would probably be to fur the wall out instead of trying to
move it with joist or rafters attached to it.
Any more questions, e-mail me
MDear...@aol.com
Don Phillips
> >Unless there is fraud involved and you can prove it, you may want to
live
> >with it. If you and your building inspector did not notice the problems
> >prior to the closing, then perhaps it is not bad enough to mess with.
>
> > don't think building inspectors look for out of plumb corners or
crooked walls
>
If is it bad enough to sue after the house is bought, someone should have
seen it during the inspection.