Mold control in new construction
mchappe
There's a product called Concrobium Mold Control (manufactured in
Toronto) which can be used to "inoculate" new wood frame construction
against subsequent mold formation. Instructions say it will provide
about 400 square feet of coverage per gallon.
My son and I are going to spray it (and let it dry thoroughly) in the
stud bays of his new house prior to insulating. Price is approx. $33/
gallon.
RicodJour
I posted a reply to this yesterday - not sure why it's not showing
up. I'll recap the highlights.
Active ingredient in Concrobium (single worst product name) is sodium
carbonate, aka washing soda. It's laundry detergent stuff and cheap.
The Concro stuff is 0.5% sodium carbonate and has a boiling point of
212 F - that's water.
In other words you'd be getting hosed if you bought that stuff. Make
your own. You could probably use baking soda as a substitute.
R
RicodJour
To illustrate how much they're overcharging for the Conco stuff...
http://www.soapsgonebuy.com/Arm_and_Hammer_Washing_Soda_p/ah1001.htm
About five bucks for a four pound box. For that, you could probably
make fifty gallons of solution, or $1500 worth of Concro. Five bucks
and some stirring, or $1500 so you don't have to mix anything and you
get some packaging.
R
Roarmeister
According to the Canadian MSDS sheet, it's actually 1.19% trisodium
phosphate. According to the American MSDS sheet it is 0.95% sodium
carbonate. So the manufacturer makes 2 different but very similar
products and calls it the same name.
Now the TSP you can buy in the hardware store may not be pure TSP but
rather substituted with up to 80-90% sodium carbonate. The reason TSP
is being cut down is that phosphates acts as a fertilizer to promote
the growth of algae if it gets flushed into your plumbing.
From Wikpedia:
"Trisodium phosphate (TSP), available at most hardware stores in white
powder form, is a cleaning agent and degreaser, commonly used to
prepare household surfaces for painting. In the early 1970s the use
of phosphate-containing products was limited. Now products sold as TSP
Substitute, containing 80-90% sodium carbonate, are promoted as a
direct substitute.
Cleaning products labeled as TSP may contain other ingredients as
well, and may in fact be less than half TSP. So even "regular" TSP
found at the hardware store may be half TSP and half "TSP substitute".
Savogran's brand actually contains 80% trisodium phosphate
dodecahydrate."
RicodJour
>
> According to the Canadian MSDS sheet, it's actually 1.19% trisodium
> phosphate. According to the American MSDS sheet it is 0.95% sodium
> carbonate. So the manufacturer makes 2 different but very similar
> products and calls it the same name.
>
> Now the TSP you can buy in the hardware store may not be pure TSP but
> rather substituted with up to 80-90% sodium carbonate. The reason TSP
> is being cut down is that phosphates acts as a fertilizer to promote
> the growth of algae if it gets flushed into your plumbing.
Sodium carbonate is used in the fruit industry to inhibit mold growth
on fruit. By it's other name, washing soda, it is used in laundry and
cleaning applications. No reason to use phosphates if you don't have
to. There's no way you're getting TSP, whether nearly pure or purely
adulterated, for anywhere near as low of a price as the washing soda.
R
Autumn
Autumn
klugcon...@gmail.com
Dear R,
You are mistaken if you think you can make "Concrobium" (i agree worst
product name ever).
If you think its just a mix of carbonate and water...The thing i like
about Concrobium is that it has EPA and DIN registrations. Meaning
relevant safety and efficacy data has been posted and proves
Concrobium will kill and prevent mold. I used it many time with great
results. A mixture of washing soda and water does not kill or prevent
mold.
The reason why the MSDS for Canada and US are different are because of
the EPA and DIN requirements...
As a mold pro, i know this stuff very well and have been satisfied
with Concrobiums performance on the jobs i have done.
hope this helps,
klugcon...@gmail.com
fripp...@hotmail.com
IMO all these mold inhibitors are a marketing gimmick at best, and at
worst, an industry diversionary tactic to make you think preventing
LEAKS is less important. Keep the water out and you won't need to
waste money on mold inhibitors which probably won't do the job
anyway. The products that really rot if there are leaks are drywall
and insulation, and those products should not be sprayed with wet
applications or you will probably damage them.
RicodJour
> On Jun 10, 11:12 am, RicodJour <ricodj...@worldemail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jun 10, 10:45 am, Roarmeister <Ebnezrvfg...@argfpncr.arg> wrote:
>
> > > According to the Canadian MSDS sheet, it's actually 1.19% trisodium
> > > phosphate. According to the American MSDS sheet it is 0.95% sodium
> > > carbonate. So the manufacturer makes 2 different but very similar
> > > products and calls it the same name.
>
> > > Now the TSP you can buy in the hardware store may not be pure TSP but
> > > rather substituted with up to 80-90% sodium carbonate. The reason TSP
> > > is being cut down is that phosphates acts as a fertilizer to promote
> > > the growth of algae if it gets flushed into your plumbing.
>
> > Sodium carbonate is used in the fruit industry to inhibit mold growth
> > on fruit. By it's other name, washing soda, it is used in laundry and
> > cleaning applications. No reason to use phosphates if you don't have
> > to. There's no way you're getting TSP, whether nearly pure or purely
> > adulterated, for anywhere near as low of a price as the washing soda.
>
> > R
>
> Dear R,
>
> You are mistaken if you think you can make "Concrobium" (i agree worst
> product name ever).
> If you think its just a mix of carbonate and water...The thing i like
> about Concrobium is that it has EPA and DIN registrations. Meaning
> relevant safety and efficacy data has been posted and proves
> Concrobium will kill and prevent mold. I used it many time with great
> mold.
> The reason why the MSDS for Canada and US are different are because of
> the EPA and DIN requirements...
> As a mold pro, i know this stuff very well and have been satisfied
> with Concrobiums performance on the jobs i have done.
> hope this helps,
I appreciate the input, but it doesn't really change things. As a
commercial applicator I'm sure you have the typical bureaucratic
regulations to conform to, which would require you to provide an MSDS
to the occupants when you applied whatever you were applying. That
requirement precludes you from mixing your own chemicals - no matter
how innocuous they are. As far as I know, if you can't provide an
MSDS sheet, you can't use the chemical.
Concrobium _is_ just sodium carbonate and water. Sodium carbonate is
listed on the US MSDS as the _only_ active ingredient. If sodium
carbonate inhibits mold growth on fruit, it will inhibit mold growth
on other things.
R
RicodJour
>
> IMO all these mold inhibitors are a marketing gimmick at best, and at
> worst, an industry diversionary tactic to make you think preventing
> LEAKS is less important. Keep the water out and you won't need to
> waste money on mold inhibitors which probably won't do the job
> anyway. The products that really rot if there are leaks are drywall
> and insulation, and those products should not be sprayed with wet
> applications or you will probably damage them.
Spraying drywall (presumably already painted drywall) with a solution
won't damage the drywall unless it's left soaking, and the spray is
hardly soaking. Think of it this way, when you apply joint compound
you're adding a _lot_ of water to unpainted drywall and it dries just
fine with no damage.
R
bel...@siamons.com
Hello I am with Siamons International, the manufacturer of Concrobium
Mold Control, and am writing to clear up some of the confusion about
the product in the posts below.
Concrobium Mold Control is a fungicide and fungistat, which means that
it eliminates (kills) existing mold and prevents mold growth. There is
only one type of Concrobium Mold Control - not a version that contains
TSP and a version that contains Sodium Carbonate, as is suggested
below. This confusion probably stems from the fact that we have
different "active ingredients" listed on our US and Canadian Material
Safety Data Sheets. The product contains both TSP and Sodium
Carbonate, as well as a third ingredient (a salt), manufactured using
our proprietary process.
In fact, there is no single "active" ingredient in Concrobium Mold
Control (we are required to list an "active" on all MSDS sheets). The
small amounts of TSP and sodium carbonate, combined with the other
ingredient (also non-toxic), results in a solution that, as it dries,
forms a polymer that encapsulates and crushes mold. The patented
solution stays on surfaces to continually resist mold growth. (Note:
the antimicrobial industry is regulated. Manufacturers cannot make
mold inhibition and prevention claims without thorough testing. Our
Health Canada and EPA-registration are the consumer's assurance that
the product does what we say it does.)
I'd also like to point out that RicodJour is correct when he says that
the key to mold control is water control. Mold only grows where there
is excess water and humidity; control those conditions and you can
avoid mold. Unfortunately, water and humidity intrusion do happen.
Leaky pipes, natural flooding, condensation, etc. can lead to wet
materials, which can lead to mold. In these cases, an antimicrobial
solution can help to remediate existing mold and/or prevent mold
growth.
For more information about the product please visit the website at
www.concrobium.com. Our email address is on the web site if you have
any more questions. Thanks.
researcher
http://www.www.thestuccocompany.com/construction/Re-Mold-control-in-new-construction-9317-.htm
:
Not that anyone is paying attention any more but here it is:
According to another aspect of the invention, there is provided a non-
toxic water soluble inorganic polymer of the following general formula,
wherein X is any alkali metal cation, preferably sodium cation or
potassium cation:
illustrated on this website
Here is the formula:
An alkali solution of about 2% polymer and sodium bicarbonate (NHCO3),
sodium carbonate (Na2CO3) and trisodium phosphate (Na3PO4) in a molar
ratio of 1 :4:5 was used for each of the following examples. This alkali
solution of polymer is referred to as Concrobium.
DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME THIS IS A PATENT
Enjoy
-------------------------------------
bel...@siamons.com wrote:
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orchardsonoma
http://www.thestuccocompany.com/construction/Mold-control-in-new-construction-9152-.htm
:
I might recommend Smith&Co. Mold and Mildew Eco-Blend #47. It is sold as a
3:1 concentrate and has a squeaky clean MSDS sheet. It works brilliantly
by saturating the neighborhood of "small life" with harmless organic
chemicals that makes everything taste and smell really bad to them (not
us) for up to six months. Every other product is in the "killing game" and
evaporates in a few days. Then organisms replicate again as a more
resistant strain. This stuff is even safe for carpets and fabrics. Unlike
others, no cheap ingredients are used like baking soda or plastics that
encapsulate mold and leave a nasty film on fibers in carpets, etc. No
protective gear required. Wash off like any household cleaner.
If you want more data or technical assistance, go to annreynolds.com or
smithandcompany.org before ordering. There are more products available for
wood restoration and UV stabilized clear sealers for wood decking.
mchappe wrote:
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JJ
That's a false equivalency. Soap will inhibit mold, so will vinegar as do many
other substances. That does not make them equally substitutable for all
applications. I'd listen to the professional and not put my house at risk.
Products formulated to inhibit mold in construction are more than a
'bureaucratic regulation.
--
for full context, visit http://www.homeownershub.com/construction/mold-control-in-new-construction-9152-.htm
Grant
Grant
Oh please!...Anyone can make their own mold killer / control solution.
Contrary to what "belden" says: "Manufacturers cannot make mold inhibition and
prevention claims without thorough testing." Quite true, if your a
manufacturer of a product for sale to the general consumer public. The
agencies Health Canada and U.S. EPA test products only for safety, NOT
effectiveness. The product Concrobium is a registered trade mark of Siamons
International. Does Concrobium work ? It Sure Does ! "belden" says : "The
secret ingredient ? - Tri SODIUM Phospahate and SODIUM Carbonate. Really !!!
The active ingredients are made from common and readily available substances.
Concrobium formula is NOT patented, otherwise it would clearly state so on the
bottle. It's grossly over priced. Your paying for the name only. So make your
own. Here is where you can find the formula and the results of their testing >
https://www.practical-sailor.com/blog/Homemade-Mildew-Preventers-11249-1.htm
One Penny Mildew Spray - Inside Practical Sailor Blog Article
Have Fun And Save A Ton :)
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for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/construction/mold-control-in-new-construction-9152-.htm
VeeLa
https://www.practical-sailor.com/blog/Homemade-Mildew-Preventers-11249-1.html
If you don't want to spend $33 US for a bottle of concrobium, the above
article lists a recipe that is as close as you can get. It works great and
KILLS mold to the root (personal experience in my own home) and does not
return.