Ryan Homes Mess!
tan...@erols.com
design of the home itself is wonderful, the workmanship is absolutely
horrendous. The walls in our home are crooked, they are out of plumb
and not level. We had a huge dip in our dining room floor. when we
pulled back the rub, the subflooring was pieces of scrap lumber pieced
together. The tile job in our bathroom was done SEVEN times-and is
still crooked. I had such a horrible time with the supervisor, who
insisted that all the work in the home was "within Ryan Homes specs".
My father has been in the construction business for 30 years and was
apalled by the workmanship. At our six month inspection, even the
inspector was shocked at how much of the work had to be redone. We
have an air duct in our basement that is blowing into the subflooring
because they never cut the floor vent! When you close our back door,
the entire wall shakes because they did not construct the wall
properly. They have to take out the whole wall and rebuild it. We have
a crown in the kitchen floor at least an inch high. We have a leak in
our roof that came down through our walk in closet- now they have to
replace all the drywall. They installed our carpet before they painted
and ruined some of the carpeting. They also didn't finish much of the
trim in the house. I could go on and on. Do yourself a favor....don't
buy a Ryan Home!!! Email me if you need more information.
tan...@erols.com
tan...@erols.com
WCK
and an attorney that speciallizes in construction disputes. Make your
builder buy back your house for what it should have appreciated to, at this
time, and then have them pay for you to move into your new home. Don't
yell.....document well and sue!!!
<tan...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:373e4294....@news.erols.com...
Lyle B. Harwood
>€ Would a successful laborer
>€ work under that arrangement, or would they rather earn more money on
>€ their own?
It depends.
We were engaged in a major remodel, and the customer approached my lead
and asked him why he didn't go into business for himself?
His answer was "because I don't want to put up with the bullshit."
The very next day, the customer again approached him, and asked him why
we were replacing these joists instead of sistering in new ones beside
them?
He answered:
"See, that's bullshit. For bullshit, you have to talk to Lyle."
Then he turned his back on the customer, and went back to work.
They don't all go into business, as you seem to imply.
--
Lyle B. Harwood
President
Phoenix Homes, Inc.
(206) 523-9500
rmaccrea
--{ BuilderNews, http://www.buildernews.com/newsgroups/news }--
Building Industry and Home Improvement NewsGroup Access
rmac...@stc.net
This illustrates the reason I reccomend not locking yourself in
with a builder until you have investigated several and had them each
bid on building your home from your plans. Always check the builder's
reccomendations, his status with the builders' association and better
business bureau, and how well he gets along with his subcontractors.
Be very cautious with large regional home building outfits. They are
only as good as their local laborers. Sometimes they try to make
their profit by paying less for the work. Would a successful laborer
by their sales department and they can treat the customer in the same
way that some car dealerships do. Usually the best builder is a small
company that has been in the same area for a long time and you can
talk directly to the person in charge, the kind that is truly
concerned with reputation.
These big outfits make it seem so easy in the beginning because
they have the financing and the paperwork all together in one place.
But the best way is to pay a professional to design your home. He
works for you, not the builder. Then choose the best builder to build
your dream home. Get your financing from a bank or credit union. Talk
to several before choosing one. After meeting with them you will
understand how the process works. Don't be afraid to do it right. You
will get a better home for a better price.
If you have any questions feel free to email me.
rmac...@stc.net
Paul Barry
friend of mine ~15% / yr. who pays me good, cash money (sssh!). It is
precisely for that reason - clears my head.
Paul
Peter Bucy
> You need a video camera, lots of documentation of times & conversation,
>and an attorney that speciallizes in construction disputes. Make your
>builder buy back your house for what it should have appreciated to, at this
>time, and then have them pay for you to move into your new home. Don't
>yell.....document well and sue!!!
You left out the intriguing fact that most attorneys charge around
$300 per hour and in the end, it seems like only the attorneys win. I
would not rule out litigation, but the cost is horrendous and the
outcome is not always predictable.
If the defects in this home are within the standards that Ryan
spelled out in its contract, the buyer may find that they are not
obligated to repair them. If they do repair them, the repairs may look
as shoddy as the original work.
I just finished consulting on a home for a friend that was built by a
large national builder. It was a mess. The work was sloppy. The
materials and methods were inferior. Yet the home met all building
codes and that is that the contact specified.
Peter A. Bucy - Home Builder
Charlotte, North Carolina
Peter Bucy
> This illustrates the reason I reccomend not locking yourself in
>with a builder until you have investigated several and had them each
>bid on building your home from your plans.
Ryan is a production home builder. They don't bid on your plans, they
don't build on your lot.
> Always check the builder's
>reccomendations, his status with the builders' association and better
>business bureau, and how well he gets along with his subcontractors.
In this case, Ryan would have checked out perfectly. Big builders are
very difficult to check out to the degree that you would know if their
work is good or not.
>Be very cautious with large regional home building outfits. They are
>only as good as their local laborers. Sometimes they try to make
>their profit by paying less for the work. Would a successful laborer
>work under that arrangement, or would they rather earn more money on
>their own?
Large production builders can offer a subcontractor a great deal of
work. That is very enticing to a sub.
>Sometimes big regional construction companies are directed
>by their sales department and they can treat the customer in the same
>way that some car dealerships do. Usually the best builder is a small
>company that has been in the same area for a long time and you can
>talk directly to the person in charge, the kind that is truly
>concerned with reputation.
As a smaller builder who does very good work, I can assure you that
Ryan will build the same size home and charge 15% less than I charge.
There is a large market out there that will tolerate shoddy work if
they can save money.
lac...@my-deja.com
domain I assume you are too) and live in a 10 yr old Ryan townhouse
development. Yes my walls are crooked and workmanship on the houses is
generally poor, but all houses built after the mid 70s in Washington are
poorly built. Alot of it has to do with no craftsmanship existing
anymore. Particularly among tract builders. Any old schmuck off the
street becomes a carpenter because he can swing a hammer or an AC
installer because he can lift ductwork. I see the same flaws in
expensive (350k plus) houses from other builders. No use wasting money
for that "luxury house" it isnt built any better than the el cheapie
houses. Now pre 1970 houses are the way to go. My mothers house (also DC
metro) built in the late 50s is a fortress, even though it was
considdered low quality construction for the time.
In article <373e4294....@news.erols.com>,
tan...@erols.com wrote:
> We made the mistake of having our home built by Ryan Homes. while the
> design of the home itself is wonderful, the workmanship is absolutely
> horrendous. The walls in our home are crooked, they are out of plumb
> and not level. We had a huge dip in our dining room floor. when we
> pulled back the rub, the subflooring was pieces of scrap lumber pieced
> together. The tile job in our bathroom was done SEVEN times-and is
> still crooked. I had such a horrible time with the supervisor, who
> insisted that all the work in the home was "within Ryan Homes specs".
> My father has been in the construction business for 30 years and was
> apalled by the workmanship. At our six month inspection, even the
> inspector was shocked at how much of the work had to be redone. We
> have an air duct in our basement that is blowing into the subflooring
> because they never cut the floor vent! When you close our back door,
> the entire wall shakes because they did not construct the wall
> properly. They have to take out the whole wall and rebuild it. We have
> a crown in the kitchen floor at least an inch high. We have a leak in
> our roof that came down through our walk in closet- now they have to
> replace all the drywall. They installed our carpet before they painted
> and ruined some of the carpeting. They also didn't finish much of the
> trim in the house. I could go on and on. Do yourself a favor....don't
> buy a Ryan Home!!! Email me if you need more information.
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
George Anderson
you will find one who takes pride in the quality of the finished
product. Just because the price is high doesn't mean that the quality is
high. Same thing with low prices (although odds are very much against
you and you really have to luck out). If you go to two different
builders here in Montreal you may find very different standars in the
qaulity of work. References and research are your greatest tools in you
selection.
And just to set things straight, no I am not in the construction
industry. I am a home owner who is not impressed with his current house
and plan on building my own later this summer. My reasons for doing so
are quite simply the people who build to my standards are NOT in my
price bracket, otherwise they would be out of business.
Have a look around, they are still there, they may not advertise with
the glitz and glamour or some of the other builders. But they don't have
to. Word of mouth is their best advertising.
George
Nollette
I have been in the construction business for almost 20 years and agree 100%
with what's going on in the building industry today. The bottom line is -
"it's gotta be FAST, CHEAP and ATTRACTIVE" - 1st priority...it used to be
"QUALITY" was the priority. Unfortunately home buyers do not want to PAY for
"quality." It's not really the fault of the contractors. Home building is a
very, very competitive market. "PRICE" is the #1 concern of the home buyer
(generally). My sister and I, have switched tracks and hopped aboard a "new"
train in the construction business of home building. It is referred to as
"pre engineered building systems." It is STILL possible to get "quality"
built into your home, have it built fast, be attractive - and, in many
cases, realize "instant equity" when the house is completed. Let's talk
about "PRICE." I can, literally, LOCK IN a price that will not increase the
usual 20% (or so) that comes with conventional "stick building." I have a
web site that goes into more detail. It's still in the development stages
and not completed. But it still is rich in content and will show pics and
give a lot of helpful insight to what I'm talking about
(http://www.rubymountain.com). From there you can email me should you have
further questions. We do business internationally so location is not a
factor. Our building system is particularly applicable to colder climate
areas as a 1500-2500 sq.ft. home can be "closed in" within 2-4 days...NO
EXAGGERATION!
Anthony Ippolito
I have been associated with construction, starting as a carpenter to present for
over 40 years. Labor today are poorly trained, supervision is cheap and material
is sky high. We need to train our workers properly. Some of my clients that are
developers have a big problem with obtaining trained professional labor.
Tony
Quality Architectural Drafting & Cad Services
From Custom Home Plans to commercial drawings and detail work.
Custom Architectural drafting for residential & Commercial Construction.
Fast response and turn around.
I can provide your needs at a very reasonable fee to fit your budget
Contact Anthony Ippolito for free information at to...@internetx.net
Check out my web page for free advice at http://www.internetx.net/~tony
jwal...@my-deja.com
doing it myself because of the lack of available decent subs.
My mechanicals are done by the same guys because I know them and their
workmanship. I'm doing all the woodwork (frame to finish) myself. After
recently building a beautiful custom ranch (250,00) the 4 ply roof
began to buckle and droop between the trusses, it's delaminating over
the entire roof and needs replaced. The lovely home I designed and
built so carefully now looks like a piece of shit. Six weeks later and
I'm still fighting with my supplier (Carter Lumber Co. N.E. Ohio) who
says it's my fault. I consider this to be an insult but I lack the
power and money to affectively do anything about it. My insurance co
says because it's not my liability, they won't cover the costs of
replacement. Little guys can't afford to eat this kind of stuff. The
material today sucks. You can't make a silk purse out of a pigs ear!
J.W.
www.jjwalters.com
In article <37762749...@internetx.net>,
Anthony Ippolito <to...@internetx.net> wrote:
> I agree!
> I have been associated with construction, starting as a carpenter to
present for
> over 40 years. Labor today are poorly trained, supervision is cheap
and material
> is sky high. We need to train our workers properly. Some of my
clients that are
>
Peter Bucy
>I have another side to the story. I am building custom homes and
> doing it myself because of the lack of available decent subs.
>My mechanicals are done by the same guys because I know them and their
>workmanship. I'm doing all the woodwork (frame to finish) myself. After
>recently building a beautiful custom ranch (250,00) the 4 ply roof
>began to buckle and droop between the trusses, it's delaminating over
>the entire roof and needs replaced. The lovely home I designed and
>built so carefully now looks like a piece of shit. Six weeks later and
>I'm still fighting with my supplier (Carter Lumber Co. N.E. Ohio) who
>says it's my fault. I consider this to be an insult but I lack the
>power and money to affectively do anything about it. My insurance co
>says because it's not my liability, they won't cover the costs of
>replacement. Little guys can't afford to eat this kind of stuff. The
>material today sucks. You can't make a silk purse out of a pigs ear!
> J.W.
> www.jjwalters.com
With only your description to go by; it sounds like the sheathing was
over-spanned. I didn't realize that ranch-type homes were using
built-up roofing today.
cate...@my-deja.com
You can't make a silk purse out of a pigs ear!
> > J.W.
> > www.jjwalters.com
>
> With only your description to go by; it sounds like the sheathing was
> over-spanned. I didn't realize that ranch-type homes were using
> built-up roofing today.
>
> Peter A. Bucy - Home Builder
> Charlotte, North Carolina
>
>
I thought i was a carpenter until i worked for this mad irishman- i
watched him send back close to 10,000$ in lumber from a good supplier in
one week- he even nixed custom windows and doors- That pissy mofo(with
the utmost affection:)) damn near checked every stick and board. he told
me, (between screaming fits) that, because of demand, and lousy
timbering, material quality has dropped like a rock in the last ten
years, and he'd almost rather be a mason and build mudhuts- they'd last
longer.
Carl
jwal...@my-deja.com
The house in question is just a fancy ranch with trusses 24" o/c---
5/12 pitch with 4 ply plywood-----15lb felt----25 yr shingles. The
plywood is buckled so bad that the entire roof needs replaced as in
some areas it's actually close to breaking through the shingles. The
happy home owner lies in bed at night and listens to the nails popping.
I've been building for close to 30 years and have never seen the likes
of it. I think it's time to change to 1/2" osb like everyone else. I
really thought plywood was the better product ...but now? I don't know.
They say it's my fault because it was put on wrong. I think I could try
and jamb the stuff as tight as possible...use no h clips and do
everything wrong I could think of and not be able to create such a
mess. Any how I just wanted to clear up my previous post...I was a bit
agravated and I guess I didn't explain myself very well. :-)
J.W.
www.jjwalters.com In article
<3778f1eb...@news.earthlink.net>,
pet...@earthlink.net wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Jun 1999 10:18:12 GMT, jwal...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > doing it myself because of the lack of available decent subs.
> >My mechanicals are done by the same guys because I know them and
their
> >workmanship. I'm doing all the woodwork (frame to finish) myself.
After
> >recently building a beautiful custom ranch (250,00) the 4 ply roof
> >began to buckle and droop between the trusses, it's delaminating over
> >the entire roof and needs replaced. The lovely home I designed and
> >built so carefully now looks like a piece of shit. Six weeks later
and
> >I'm still fighting with my supplier (Carter Lumber Co. N.E. Ohio) who
> >says it's my fault. I consider this to be an insult but I lack the
> >power and money to affectively do anything about it. My insurance co
> >says because it's not my liability, they won't cover the costs of
> >replacement. Little guys can't afford to eat this kind of stuff. The
> >material today sucks. You can't make a silk purse out of a pigs ear!
> > J.W.
> > www.jjwalters.com
>
> over-spanned. I didn't realize that ranch-type homes were using
> built-up roofing today.
>
> Peter A. Bucy - Home Builder
> Charlotte, North Carolina
>
>
Peter Bucy
>>
> I thought i was a carpenter until i worked for this mad irishman- i
>watched him send back close to 10,000$ in lumber from a good supplier in
>one week- he even nixed custom windows and doors- That pissy mofo(with
>the utmost affection:)) damn near checked every stick and board. he told
>me, (between screaming fits) that, because of demand, and lousy
>timbering, material quality has dropped like a rock in the last ten
>years, and he'd almost rather be a mason and build mudhuts- they'd last
>longer.
Material quality today is far superior to what was available in the
past largely because of engineered components such as: wood-i's, floor
and roof trusses, LVL beams, and finger jointed studs.
It is getting tougher to buy old growth large dimension timbers, but
with engineered lumber why would anyone want to go back to them.
Peter Bucy
>Hi Peter
> The house in question is just a fancy ranch with trusses 24" o/c---
>5/12 pitch with 4 ply plywood-----15lb felt----25 yr shingles. The
>plywood is buckled so bad that the entire roof needs replaced as in
>some areas it's actually close to breaking through the shingles. The
>happy home owner lies in bed at night and listens to the nails popping.
>I've been building for close to 30 years and have never seen the likes
>of it. I think it's time to change to 1/2" osb like everyone else. I
>really thought plywood was the better product ...but now? I don't know.
>They say it's my fault because it was put on wrong. I think I could try
>and jamb the stuff as tight as possible...use no h clips and do
>everything wrong I could think of and not be able to create such a
>mess. Any how I just wanted to clear up my previous post...I was a bit
>agravated and I guess I didn't explain myself very well. :-)
Just exactly how did they say that you installed the plywood
incorrectly? I think that you might have a claim against the plywood
manufacturer and possibly even the supplier.
If the owner can hear "nails popping" at night, there might be
something more wrong with the structure than just defective plywood.
You said that the plywood is "close to breaking through the
shingles." That sounds like the plywood was butted too tight at the 4'
vertical joints.
Over the years I have seen plywood spot delaminate and warp a little,
but I have never seen a roof do what you described. Are you sure that
you don't have any truss movement from over-spanned trusses?
jwal...@my-deja.com
framer who helped me build the house is pretty good with trusses. He
also sheeted the roof and it's possible the ply wasn't actually 1/8 in
between. I've personally never measured, it's usually just drop and
attach. I just know that we did it right, overall. I bitched loud
enough to my supplier that their going to fly in an expert to look at
the roof. I suppose it will be his call. I'm expecting him to rule in
their favor because the money's in their pocket. They wouldn't accept
my expert but at least if i'm proven to be at fault my insurance kicks
in so.....that will end it. I wonder just how much plywood is supposed
to swell on the long side. H clips leave a good gap the other way. I've
seen the 3/4 t&g swell up a little after being tightly butted and
soaked a few times but not anything close to this experience. I put a
cut off another house in the rain to see what would happen and part of
it turned into an accordian. I wonder if the E.P.A. made the mills
change their glue? They did with luan sub-floor I hear.
J.W.
www.jjwalters.comIn article
<377c95fd...@news.earthlink.net>,
medB
Plywood is a pourous material. it requires additional surfacing or
protection
As to the buckling down
Pay honesty to the home owner.
Say the budget them was tight. the cross spanning purlins which were
supposed to receive the load of the roof was omitted. Now it is evident it
is needed. Reach an agreement with the cost.
jwal...@my-deja.com wrote in message <7lecs5$unh$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>Hi Peter
> The house in question is just a fancy ranch with trusses 24" o/c---
>5/12 pitch with 4 ply plywood-----15lb felt----25 yr shingles. The
>plywood is buckled so bad that the entire roof needs replaced as in
>some areas it's actually close to breaking through the shingles. The
>happy home owner lies in bed at night and listens to the nails popping.
>I've been building for close to 30 years and have never seen the likes
>of it. I think it's time to change to 1/2" osb like everyone else. I
>really thought plywood was the better product ...but now? I don't know.
>They say it's my fault because it was put on wrong. I think I could try
>and jamb the stuff as tight as possible...use no h clips and do
>everything wrong I could think of and not be able to create such a
>mess. Any how I just wanted to clear up my previous post...I was a bit
>agravated and I guess I didn't explain myself very well. :-)
> J.W.
> www.jjwalters.com In article
><3778f1eb...@news.earthlink.net>,
> pet...@earthlink.net wrote:
>> On Mon, 28 Jun 1999 10:18:12 GMT, jwal...@my-deja.com wrote:
>>
>> >I have another side to the story. I am building custom homes and
>> > doing it myself because of the lack of available decent subs.
>> >My mechanicals are done by the same guys because I know them and
>their
>> >workmanship. I'm doing all the woodwork (frame to finish) myself.
>After
>> >recently building a beautiful custom ranch (250,00) the 4 ply roof
>> >began to buckle and droop between the trusses, it's delaminating over
>> >the entire roof and needs replaced. The lovely home I designed and
>> >built so carefully now looks like a piece of shit. Six weeks later
>and
>> >I'm still fighting with my supplier (Carter Lumber Co. N.E. Ohio) who
>> >says it's my fault. I consider this to be an insult but I lack the
>> >power and money to affectively do anything about it. My insurance co
>> >says because it's not my liability, they won't cover the costs of
>> >replacement. Little guys can't afford to eat this kind of stuff. The
>> >material today sucks. You can't make a silk purse out of a pigs ear!
>> > J.W.
>> > www.jjwalters.com
>>
>> With only your description to go by; it sounds like the sheathing was
>> over-spanned. I didn't realize that ranch-type homes were using
>> built-up roofing today.
>>
>> Peter A. Bucy - Home Builder
>> Charlotte, North Carolina
>>
>>
>
>
Anthony Ippolito
Second you should have taken out a liability insurance on the house, and
third. IF the materials were installed properly and the roofing material
installed properly then depending on the age of installation you may or may
not have a case.
Anthony Michael Ippolito
to...@internetx.net
Architectural Drafting & Cad services
http://www.internetx.net/~tony
cate...@my-deja.com
pet...@earthlink.net wrote:
> >because of demand, and lousy
> >timbering, material quality has dropped like a rock in the last ten
> >years, and he'd almost rather be a mason and build mudhuts- they'd
last
> >longer.
>
> Material quality today is far superior to what was available in the
> past largely because of engineered components such as: wood-i's, floor
> and roof trusses, LVL beams, and finger jointed studs.
>
> It is getting tougher to buy old growth large dimension timbers, but
> with engineered lumber why would anyone want to go back to them.
>
> Peter A. Bucy - Home Builder
> Charlotte, North Carolina
>
>
ok- I certainly can't argue with composite I's and tgi beams, but i have
seen an inordinate number of small dimension lumber be so warped and
wonky as to be completely unusable, and once, snipping a stack of .5 in.
ply sheets, from the top down, each sheet was galed out like a propeller
once you picked it up- junk. Some PT i handled recently was also not the
highest quality. at 7.50$ a board, i would like to see them straight and
flat. maybe i'm just outraged over prices...
Carl Brooks
small-fry part-time pro:)
Boston, MA
Vern Christopher
lowered the quality due to rising prices, this company has not! They
build a super quality home (panelized), so you get more home for the
money! It is worth checking out.
<A HREF="http://www.eagleproducts.net"></A>
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