Building paper exposed too long?
chi
months ago. The paper has been exposed to the California weather since
then. He's close to the point where they might start adding the stucco
over the chickenwire.
I'm worried that the paper may no longer be as waterproof as it should.
Re-papering the entire house seems like a large task, but having a home
that leaks would be much worse. Is this something I need to worry
about, or can the paper take this much exposure?
RicodJour
That's an awfully long time to be exposed. The paper has certainly
started to deteriorate. I can't give you a definitive answer as I've
never worked on a building that had paper exposed for that long.
Repapering isn't a huge job unless the chicken wire is already in
place.
R
norma...@gmail.com
penetrations in the paper. If you can see daylight, then you have
potential issues. Remember, you control the checkbook so demand that
things are done right-
RicodJour
> I would stand inside your home during the day and look for any holes or
> penetrations in the paper. If you can see daylight, then you have
> potential issues.
If he can see daylight, there's no sheathing.
R
Al Bundy
news:1137124798....@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
LMFAO!!!!!
chi
me to see any daylight. The chickenwire was put in place at the same
time the paper was.
Ideally I'd like to see a spec from a manufacturer that states the
maximum allowable exposure time for the paper, but I haven't found
anything. The exterior of the paper does have that dry and faded look
though.
RicodJour
> The building paper is over plywood so the hole would be pretty big for
> me to see any daylight. The chickenwire was put in place at the same
> time the paper was.
The contractor installed the wire to help keep the paper from blowing
off in the wind. Not a bad practice in general, but 6 months is a long
time for it to be exposed. If he hadn't put the wire in place, laying
on a second layer of building paper wouldn't have taken very long - the
stuff goes up very quickly, and he probably wouldn't have had to redo
the flashings around the windows and doors.
Who caused the delay? That's going to be of paramount importance in
any negotiation to redo the building paper, and will determine who will
pay for the work and materials.
> Ideally I'd like to see a spec from a manufacturer that states the
> maximum allowable exposure time for the paper, but I haven't found
> anything. The exterior of the paper does have that dry and faded look
> though.
http://www.nibs.org/BETEC/04Membranes/Pres/Olson.pdf
That's not specific in its language at all - it just says the paper is
to be covered as soon as possible. You may want to contact several
manufacturers and see if you can get some more detailed info on
acceptable exposure limits. If you can't determine whose paper is on
your house, just call some of the local lumberyards and home centers
and see what brands they carry and contact them.
R
Rich-out-West
Not to sound flip, but if he's stapled chicken wire directly to a
single layer of Tyvek (or similar building paper) with stucco to be
directly applied over this, who cares what state the paper is in? The
surficants in the concrete will cause even new Tyvek to loose it's
water repelancy. And this is true for the so-called "stucco wrap"
wrinkly varieties as well. At that point any water that soaks through
the stucco or gets by bad flashings will be held against the plywood
with no way to escape. The data is in on this one. Visit the Building
Science Corp. website if you want more info.
Stucco in the old days relied on two layers of felt. As the
concrete dried, it shrank just enough to pull the outer layer away from
the inner, creating a drainage plane. Couple the newer stucco
techniques with the generally sloppy or missing flashings that get
thrown up (pun intended) and rot/mold are almost inevitable. Looking
at the stucco jobs in our area, I'll bet about 98% are done
incorrectly. Most subs will tell you that's the way they always do it.
The fact is most people aren't willing to pay to have it done well.
Nine out of ten times they probably get by without major problems.
We just applied 1300sf of stucco siding to the lower 3ft of our
new house. I worked with our mason to arrive at a system to create a
real drainiage plane. We applied a layer of Tyvek, a 1/4in layer of
EnkaMat, another layer of Tyvek, followed by explanded metal lath (in
place of chicken wire). The outer layer of Tyvek basically just acts
to keep the stucco from getting into the EnkaMat. This created a 1/4in
air gap behind the stucco, which was flashed at the bottom to kick out
any water. We expect this work to last 100yrs without problems.
Some on the list, pointed out we could have used self-furing lath
instead of the EnkaMat. This would have saved a bit of labor and still
resutled in a decent drainage plane (assuming it was applied over a sub
layer of Tyvek or felt). The material costs of either system would be
similar. Nonetheless, our system was easy enough to apply and created
a very good drainage plane.
Richard Johnson PE
Camano Island, WA
Dennis
asphalt-impregnated building paper. Got into it about 9 months in. Test had
several samples nailed to a 45 deg wall exposed directly to the sun and
weather. The product this particular company was testing was failing (bad)
but the building paper was still in good shape.
All-in-all the UV probably won't hurt it, neither will rail or snow
(although it may look a little weathered.) What hurts it is physical
movement (blowing in the wind and that sort of thing.)
Here a link to a laboratory that makes the stuff and they also feel that it
will hold up to the elements for years w/o problems. You should be OK.
http://www.halind.com/content/building_paper_faq.html
chi
paper. The tech said there were no maximum exposure times for their
building paper, although they do list max exposure times for other
products. The only guideline he could find was that the paper should be
in "good condition" based on the installer's opinion.
This information is consistent with the link that Dennis provided. The
faq says that 2 layers of paper are better if there is extended
exposure and that simply having a weathered look isn't detrimental.
Both of these are true in our case.
Recently, there have been heavy rainstorms and a couple of leaks
appeared, but none because of the paper. One was due to a huge pool of
water next to the basement and another because water leaked from roof
to wall because there was no drain pipe.
Thanks for the advice and feedback. Hopefully this thread will provide
some guidance to others who run into a very slow contractor.