Two 15 amp breakers Vs 15 amp double pole

[Oz]

Question:
I have a well pump conected to one of those breaker that have 2 15 amp on
the outside and 2 15 amp in the centre but connected together with a small
metal rod, So they both move at the same time. I am installing a generator
panel. so have to buy new breakers as the brands are diffrent.
Cann i use a 15 amp double pole breaker with just the 1 switch on it, ? Or
should it be a 30 amp. ? Is there a reason why these breakers are used,
and do they create 30 amps as 2 x 15 amp.
Thanks


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[PeterD]

On 8/22/2013 11:44 PM, Oz wrote:
> Question:
> I have a well pump conected to one of those breaker that have 2 15 amp on
> the outside and 2 15 amp in the centre but connected together with a small
> metal rod, So they both move at the same time. I am installing a generator
> panel. so have to buy new breakers as the brands are diffrent.
> Cann i use a 15 amp double pole breaker with just the 1 switch on it, ? Or
> should it be a 30 amp. ? Is there a reason why these breakers are used,
> and do they create 30 amps as 2 x 15 amp.
> Thanks
>
>

A 240 volt circuit, such as your well pump, must use tied breakers
(those breakers with the handles connected together) and must not use
breakers without this feature. This is an important safety feature,
required by NEC.

As well, no, a 15 amp breaker is a 15 amp breaker.

Your post implies that your electrical experience is limited. There are
a lot of good self-help books that will teach you about home electrical
wiring. I'd recommend as a minimum you get one of these books and read
it. Better yet: get several (think: library!) and read all. That may
prevent serious grief later on.



--
I'm never going to grow up.

[jloomis]

Hello,
Isn't the two pole breaker, the 15 amp breaker related to the 240 volt in
the panel, and the single 15 amp breaker is
related to just a 110 volt. So, the pump breaker is 240 volt, and needs to
remain that way.
Also, a 15 amp breaker is lightweight for a generator.
john

"PeterD" wrote in message news:kv7gip$iln$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

[Oz]

replying to PeterD , Oz wrote:

> peter2 wrote:
>
> A 240 volt circuit, such as your well pump, must use tied breakers
> (those breakers with the handles connected together) and must not use
> breakers without this feature. This is an important safety feature,
> required by NEC.
> As well, no, a 15 amp breaker is a 15 amp breaker.
> Your post implies that your electrical experience is limited. There are
> a lot of good self-help books that will teach you about home electrical
> wiring. I'd recommend as a minimum you get one of these books and read
> it. Better yet: get several (think: library!) and read all. That may
> prevent serious grief later on.
> --
> I'm never going to grow up.

Thanks.
So to kill my curiosity, How do they work differently? also having Two 15
amps, does that make a 30 amp? as with batteries, depending on how you
connect them, can keep the voltage the same or double it.
Its a square D panel, and when i look on line for a double breaker
connected together, i cannot seem to find one, would they be the same as
Two single 15 amp, and connect them together with one of those rods? I
guessing those rods can be purchased,
my knowledge is average to good i would say, but coming from England where
all of it is 240v. on a ring circuit, it take a bit of figuring out. and
reading books at whatever level you are at is always a good thing, never
to old to learn something.

[PeterD]

It really isn't practical for me to try to teach you about electricity
in the forum. That is why I recommended you get some books on the
subject and learn from them.

I'm very concerned you will be doing things that will be dangerous so I
strongly recommend you get some assistance from a person who is more
knowledgeable in the field. Electricity is not always simple, easy and
absolutely can be very unsafe if you are not careful.

Also, just buy the proper breakers. Don't try to kludge something together.

You say you are from England, are you still there, or in the USA?

[Oz]

I'm living in Canada.
All the work is being checked by a electrical building inspector, for a
permit, I called him today and he told me what to do. in fact, I have to
use a double pole breaker with just 1 lever, as its a Square D breaker
panel, and they make them as a double wide, which was what I bought, but
it was just when I was about to change it over to the Generator panel,
that I notice it had the 2 levers connected together, so I was unsure if I
had the correct breaker, and as they both said 15 amp, wasn't sure if that
created a 30 amp circuit.This is a complete basement reno, so all the work
is being checked, he done the first inspection and was happy with
everything I had done, apart from not putting insulation between the wire
and the heating ducts, which is now done.

Thanks for your input.

[bilb2765]

Problem you may have, the inspector will ensure everything is up to
code. He will not design it. The breakers may be installed correctly,
but may be under sized. That is where an electrician comes in handy.

[Oz]

replying to bilb2765 , Oz wrote:

> bilzbs wrote:
>
> Problem you may have, the inspector will ensure everything is up to
> code. He will not design it. The breakers may be installed correctly,
> but may be under sized. That is where an electrician comes in handy.

So are you saying these two breaker in the pictures are not the same, I
mean just the 2 center ones on Cutler Hammer one? You just got me more
concerned now, to make sure I have done it correctly. If the breaker was
to small, would that mean it would it would pop more often?
[IMG]http://www.homeownershub.com/img/1o[/IMG]

[IMG]http://www.homeownershub.com/img/1p[/IMG]

[jloomis]

Inspectors are not tradesmen.
Most of the inspectors are wanna be tradesmen who could not handle the
trade.
Some are just college graduates with basic inspector training......
They are not electricians, engineers, concrete people, or builders.
Some though may be better than others with experience.
I am being very "general" in my comments, but I have seen many an inspector
who was not
necessarily qualified. Remember also, any inspections they do or sign
off....
They are not liable either.
John

"Oz" wrote in message
news:d8a6d$52180fe1$cf3aab60$27...@news.flashnewsgroups.com...

[ozzy]

replying to jloomis , ozzy wrote:

> jloomis wrote:
>
> Inspectors are not tradesmen.
> Most of the inspectors are wanna be tradesmen who could not handle the
> trade.
> Some are just college graduates with basic inspector training......
> They are not electricians, engineers, concrete people, or builders.
> Some though may be better than others with experience.
> I am being very "general" in my comments, but I have seen many an
inspector
> who was not
> necessarily qualified. Remember also, any inspections they do or sign
> off....
> They are not liable either.
> John

Thanks everyone,
I think we have diversified from the original question, I just wanted to
know if these two breaker done the same job, or if because of the two 15
amp breaker connected together created a 30 amp circuit. or if it was a
different kind of breaker because of the 1 one or two levers on it.

[PeterD]

On 8/23/2013 9:44 PM, Oz wrote:
> replying to bilb2765 , Oz wrote:
>> bilzbs wrote:
>>
>> Problem you may have, the inspector will ensure everything is up to
>> code. He will not design it. The breakers may be installed correctly,
>> but may be under sized. That is where an electrician comes in handy.
>
>
>
> So are you saying these two breaker in the pictures are not the same, I
> mean just the 2 center ones on Cutler Hammer one? You just got me more
> concerned now, to make sure I have done it correctly. If the breaker was
> to small, would that mean it would it would pop more often?
> [IMG]http://www.homeownershub.com/img/1o[/IMG]
>
> [IMG]http://www.homeownershub.com/img/1p[/IMG]
>
>

The second image is a special breaker designed to allow more circuits
per space than the first example. All 240 breakers are double with tied
handles.

Keep in mind that this is more complex than you may realize, but again
no one here can give you a full tutorial on how to do a change over
transfer switch.

[v8z]

"Oz" <caedfaa9ed1216d60e...@example.com> wrote in message
news:6023e$5216da81$cf3aab60$68...@news.flashnewsgroups.com...

Inside your main breaker box are two bus bars, one powered by the large
black wire, and one powered by the large red wire. These two wires are
opposing 1/2 phases of the alternating current. In order for 220/240 single
phase to work correctly, a double, tied breaker is installed so that each
one connects to a different bus.

Starting at the top of the panel, the top-most breaker connects with one bus
bar. The next one down connects to the opposite bus bar. As you move down
the panel they alternate.

220/240 single phase is wired using both the black and the red, so a 240
breaker forces the two breakers to be next to each other and therefore a
joined pair with each powered by the opposite 1/2 phase.

A MUCH BETTER question to ask is if the generator you are planning to use
supports 240 operation....Usually it has to be a pretty large genny before
it offers 220/240VAC.

A 220/240 pump will not run on two single 110VAC feeds supplied from a
non-220/240VAC generator because both feeds are the same 1/2 phase.

To visualize the 1/2 phase thing - alternating current flows in both
directions - pushing then pulling and pulling if you will - Both black and
red wires push then pull, but black would be pushing while red is pulling
and then the opposite. These opposing 1/2 phases are what makes 220/240
motors so much more efficient becuse they are designed to use both to move
the stator

[Oz]

replying to v8z , Oz wrote:

> juiced wrote:
>
> "Oz" <caedfaa9ed1216d60e...@example.com> wrote in message
> news:6023e$5216da81$cf3aab60$68...@news.flashnewsgroups.com...

> Inside your main breaker box are two bus bars, one powered by the large
> black wire, and one powered by the large red wire. These two wires are
> opposing 1/2 phases of the alternating current. In order for 220/240
single

> phase to work correctly, a double, tied breaker is installed so that each
> one connects to a different bus.
> Starting at the top of the panel, the top-most breaker connects with one
bus

> bar. The next one down connects to the opposite bus bar. As you move down

> the panel they alternate.
> 220/240 single phase is wired using both the black and the red, so a 240
> breaker forces the two breakers to be next to each other and therefore a
> joined pair with each powered by the opposite 1/2 phase.
> A MUCH BETTER question to ask is if the generator you are planning to use
> supports 240 operation....Usually it has to be a pretty large genny before

> it offers 220/240VAC.
> A 220/240 pump will not run on two single 110VAC feeds supplied from a
> non-220/240VAC generator because both feeds are the same 1/2 phase.
> To visualize the 1/2 phase thing - alternating current flows in both
> directions - pushing then pulling and pulling if you will - Both black and

> red wires push then pull, but black would be pushing while red is pulling
> and then the opposite. These opposing 1/2 phases are what makes 220/240
> motors so much more efficient becuse they are designed to use both to move

> the stator

Thank you.
Coming from England, we use 240v and works in the same kind of thing, each
breaker (at least for the receptacles) run a ring main, feeding the power
from each end of the wire, over there we are not allowed to have lights on
the same circuit as the receptacles.
I use a Honda 6500 generator, and it work well on my old house with a
transfer panel. I never tried running all the circuits at the same time,
as not to overload it, but in a snow storm and power goes out, its just to
keep the bare essentials running.
So to be back to the other breaker in the photo, as square D only make it
with the single lever, I guessing they both work the same?

[xiaod...@gmail.com]

"Inside your main breaker box are two bus bars, one powered by the large
black wire, and one powered by the large red wire. These two wires are
opposing 1/2 phases of the alternating current. "

We are talking about the US, no? Then that is incorrect.

There are two buses, each 120v, that is how you get 240v. But they are not out of phase, the "phase" never enters into it. They are both the exact same phase.

Is the phases were opposed, voltage would always be zero.

It's confusing, because the term "3 phase" is used a lot, implying that there are two other phases. But house current is all one phase.