Drip edge discouraged

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GB

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Mar 1, 2007, 2:22:07 AM3/1/07
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Hi,

I am getting reroofing bids for my 25 year old house in Northern
Virginia, and I have gotten conflicting advice regarding installation of
drip edge.

The first roofer told me he does not recommend installing it because it
is not necessary when the shingles are installed properly, and can cause
the shingles not to lay straight if the underlying roof structure has
irregularities.

The second roofer said that was nonsense, and they always install drip edge.

Both of these roofers have highest ratings in a local consumer ratings
service (Washington Checkbook).

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks.

GB

Matt Whiting

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Mar 1, 2007, 6:58:50 AM3/1/07
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I'm with the second roofer. If the roof structure is so "irregular"
that drip edge won't lay flat, then you've got a bigger problem than
just needing shingles.

Matt

Bob Morrison

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Mar 1, 2007, 11:19:40 AM3/1/07
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In a previous post Matt Whiting wrote...

> I'm with the second roofer. If the roof structure is so "irregular"
> that drip edge won't lay flat, then you've got a bigger problem than
> just needing shingles.
>

I second Matt's recommendation. The previous owner of my house did not
install drip edge and now I have water blowing back against the edge of
the sheathing. So, I'm going to figure out a way to retroactively install
the drip edge.

--
Bob Morrison, PE, SE
R L Morrison Engineering Co
Structural & Civil Engineering
Poulsbo WA
bob at rlmorrisonengr dot com

DT

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Mar 1, 2007, 2:03:26 PM3/1/07
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If you take a look during the rain at a drip edge installed, you will quickly
see how much rain it sheds that would have contacted the wood and seeped in.
Put them under the builder's paper (or adhesive membrane) along the eaves
(where the gutter is), and over the paper along the gable edges.

--
Dennis

RicodJour

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Mar 1, 2007, 2:50:41 PM3/1/07
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On Mar 1, 2:22 am, GB <g...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
> I am getting reroofing bids for my 25 year old house in Northern
> Virginia, and I have gotten conflicting advice regarding installation of
> drip edge.
>
> The first roofer told me he does not recommend installing it because it
> is not necessary when the shingles are installed properly, and can cause
> the shingles not to lay straight if the underlying roof structure has
> irregularities.
>
> The second roofer said that was nonsense, and they always install drip edge.


Drip edges perform a necessary function. All the information about
drip edge installation is right on the wrapper of _every_ bundle of
shingles, and it makes me wonder what other manufacturer's
instructions the first roofer doesn't think he needs to follow.

I had a similar situation with an excellent roofer. He said the drip
edge wasn't necessary and he never installed it. I told him I
required it even if he didn't, so he put it in. Don't throw out the
first roofer for this one little item.

BTW, if the underlying roof structure is irregular the shingles won't
lay right with or without the drip edge.

R

Matt Whiting

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Mar 1, 2007, 5:34:59 PM3/1/07
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RicodJour wrote:

The problem is: if he doesn't know about drip edge, what else about
roofing doesn't he know? Personally, I'd move along down the road to
the next roofer.

Matt

Michael Bulatovich

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Mar 1, 2007, 5:51:11 PM3/1/07
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"Matt Whiting" <whi...@epix.net> wrote in message
news:nyIFh.2909$Oc.1...@news1.epix.net...

I've seen it done both ways. Without a drip edge the roofers tend to start
the first shingle overhanging a bit more. That starts to curl over time,
giving a sloppy appearance, esp. if no gutters. On the other hand, I've seen
galvanized speed-rusting ant the break of a drip. Not pretty.
--


MichaelB
www.michaelbulatovich.ca


Astro

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Mar 1, 2007, 6:00:42 PM3/1/07
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Well, here's an option. I'm in the process of having some roofs redone
and my roofer told me the same thing - no need for the drip edge. He
said he's using ice and water shield that hangs over the edge so that
the drip edge would be extraneous.

Interestingly, in researching this, I saw conflicting information. One
article said install drip edge before the ice/water shield, the other
said, absolutely, it has to be installed after. hmm...

It does seem that logically one should use a drip edge. Wish we had
this discussion a week ago!

Dennis

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Mar 1, 2007, 6:08:58 PM3/1/07
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Drip edge's are not required by code (IRC), but the code does require that
asphalt shingles be installed per manufacturers instructions. All asphalt
shingle manufacturer's belong to and follow the guidelines of the Asphalt
Shingle Manufactures Association (ARMA); and in their "Residential Asphalt
Roofing Manual" they state that "the use of a drip edge is strongly
recommended". Hence, the first roofer is correct, it IS NOT actually
required, but, have drip edges installed even if it costs more.

The proper method is usually described on the shingle wrapper, but if not,
its installed directly to the deck along the eaves, and over the
underlayment on the rakes. Also carefully review the underlayment quoted. On
my last reroof I had them use the self-adhering type over the complete roof
and feel it's well worth the slight extra cost. (Even when the shingles lift
water will not get to the deck.)


"GB" <g...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
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M&S

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Mar 1, 2007, 6:30:17 PM3/1/07
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Astro wrote:

The fact is that, just as Rico said, drip edge performs a neccesary
function. I would say many more than a single function. We have all seen
homes with no drip edge and no problems but we have more often seen them
with no drip edge and the subsequent, predictable, problems. Many things
can affect the balance, the amount of shingle overhang, type of
underlayment, pitch, climate region, and other things can affect whether
problems will or will not occur.

What I find even more interesting is how do those who omit drip edge
expect to deal with the transition from fascia to the underside of the
roof. This is rarely a dead straight clean transition. The drip simply
crisps up the whole transition.

Ask any gutter installer what they have to say about overhangs and drip
edge and I would wager the vast majority will tell you they have far
more trouble with gutters on a roof with no drip edge than one with it.
It simply gets water off the fascia which is just what you want.

I am with Matt on this one, unless you have a personal relationship with
the roofer, if they are trying to cut the drip edge I would be wary of
what else they are willing to cut along the way.

Mark

Matt Whiting

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Mar 1, 2007, 7:02:32 PM3/1/07
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Drip edge protects the edge of the sheathing/top of the fascia board as
well as helping to keep water from running under the edge of the
shingles. Ice & Water shield helps with the latter, but not with the
former ... unless he is wrapping the shield around the sheathing and
stapling it to the fascia!

Matt

Bill

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Mar 1, 2007, 10:06:33 PM3/1/07
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I was of the opinion that in different areas of the country, they do things
differently.
I have seen roofers put shingles on plywood, with no felt, nor drip edge.
I think it was the Carolinas or Virginia. It was 15 or 20 yeas ago.
I always thought Felt, and Drip edge would have been mandatory. Not to
mention valley metal too, even with a weave.

--
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"GB" <g...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
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John Reddy

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Mar 2, 2007, 6:38:27 AM3/2/07
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The cost of drip edge can't be more than $1/linear foot installed.
What's the big deal?

There are plenty of good reasons to use it and none (that I can think
of) to omit it.

Matt Whiting

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Mar 2, 2007, 6:46:23 AM3/2/07
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Bill wrote:
> I was of the opinion that in different areas of the country, they do things
> differently.
> I have seen roofers put shingles on plywood, with no felt, nor drip edge.
> I think it was the Carolinas or Virginia. It was 15 or 20 yeas ago.
> I always thought Felt, and Drip edge would have been mandatory. Not to
> mention valley metal too, even with a weave.
>

The level of practice and quality varies from region to region, but what
is correct remains the same.

Matt

Bill

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Mar 2, 2007, 9:02:58 AM3/2/07
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Used to be $1 / foot. Have you priced metal lately?
5 years ago a stick was 2, maybe 3 dollars. Now it is more like $10.
Guess it costs allot of freight to get it here from China.

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"John Reddy" <john...@contbuilding.com> wrote in message
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DT

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Mar 2, 2007, 9:35:57 AM3/2/07
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In article <b8WFh.462$Y8....@bignews6.bellsouth.net>, bar...@bellsouth.net
says...

>
>Used to be $1 / foot. Have you priced metal lately?
>5 years ago a stick was 2, maybe 3 dollars. Now it is more like $10.


The standard 10' drip edge at Home Depot is $3.89 today.

--
Dennis

Bill

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Mar 2, 2007, 3:51:36 PM3/2/07
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Got mine from a roofing supply house. It was over $8 per stick. (3X3)
The stuff HD has is not the same as I get.

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Glenn

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Mar 2, 2007, 5:04:32 PM3/2/07
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Don't you think that silver plated is a little extreme?

Just basing that on the price of course.

"Bill" <bar...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
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Bill

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Mar 2, 2007, 5:18:55 PM3/2/07
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Just 50 year stuff. What is HD rated at?

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M&S

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Mar 2, 2007, 7:04:43 PM3/2/07
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Bill wrote:
> Just 50 year stuff. What is HD rated at?
>

Here here, tin foil at best. Buying material at Home Crapo and Howes and
then commenting on components of a quality roof install and the omition
of drip edge requires a good look in the mirror. A little over the top,
but using home center drip edge is a modest step at best above not using
it at all. It is the thinnest material, thinnest finish, and shortest
profile that could be considered worth installing in the first place.

Mark

Bill

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Mar 2, 2007, 9:07:35 PM3/2/07
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Guess it all depends on the guarantee. You reputation precedes you.
What happens if you lay a ladder against the drip edge, and it bends?
I admit the price is ridiculous, but what isn't any more.


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John Reddy

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Mar 3, 2007, 8:56:59 AM3/3/07
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In article <8p1Gh.607$Y8...@bignews6.bellsouth.net>,
"Bill" <bar...@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> Just 50 year stuff. What is HD rated at?

50 year drip edge? Great. Now tell me where I can find 50 year
shingles to go with it.

RicodJour

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Mar 3, 2007, 11:43:19 AM3/3/07
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http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=50+year+warranty+roof+shingles

There are a fair number of manufacturers, too.

R

Bill

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Mar 3, 2007, 12:10:55 PM3/3/07
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On my roof. 50 year archs.

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Matt Whiting

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Mar 3, 2007, 1:02:01 PM3/3/07
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Bill wrote:

> On my roof. 50 year archs.
>

But they haven't been around yet for 50 years so I personally take these
guarantees with a grain of salt. I'll believe it when I see it. My
30 year shingles are only 6 years old and I'll be very surprised if they
last 24 more years.


Matt

RicodJour

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Mar 3, 2007, 1:11:23 PM3/3/07
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Not sure if I'm willing to wait another quarter century for your full
report, but good luck with it anyway!

The guarantee doesn't mean that there _won't_ be problems. It means
if and when there are problems you probably won't see jack. Subtle
difference. ;)

R

Matt Whiting

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Mar 3, 2007, 4:31:51 PM3/3/07
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However, it does call into question paying 3X more for "50 year" drip
edge. :-)

Matt

John Reddy

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Mar 4, 2007, 7:35:01 AM3/4/07
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In article <tKiGh.2959$Oc.1...@news1.epix.net>,
Matt Whiting <whi...@epix.net> wrote:

Exactly. The warranties are pro-rated such that you aren't going to
get much if a 30 year shingle lasts 20 years. Also, the chances of the
shingle manufacturer being around in 50 years are probably the same as
my being around, pretty slim.

Bob Morrison

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Mar 5, 2007, 10:02:16 AM3/5/07
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In a previous post Matt Whiting wrote...

> However, it does call into question paying 3X more for "50 year" drip
> edge. :-)
>

I suppose, but you could put (2) 25-year roofs on with the same 50-year
drip edge.

--
Bob Morrison, PE, SE
R L Morrison Engineering Co
Structural & Civil Engineering
Poulsbo WA
bob at rlmorrisonengr dot com

Jack

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Mar 5, 2007, 3:12:04 PM3/5/07
to
GB wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am getting reroofing bids for my 25 year old house in Northern
> Virginia, and I have gotten conflicting advice regarding installation of
> drip edge.
>
> The first roofer told me he does not recommend installing it because it
> is not necessary when the shingles are installed properly, and can cause
> the shingles not to lay straight if the underlying roof structure has
> irregularities.
>
> The second roofer said that was nonsense, and they always install drip
> edge.
>
> Both of these roofers have highest ratings in a local consumer ratings
> service (Washington Checkbook).
>
> Any advice would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks.
>
> GB
Here in Connecticut we are required to install drip edge.

Jack

RicodJour

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Mar 5, 2007, 3:42:09 PM3/5/07
to

NY, too. Specifically section §1507.2.9.3

Unfortunately, all too often, reroofing and remodeling gets treated
like bastard sons of new construction and a lot of stuff falls through
the cracks. A roofer worth his salt would comply with code even if he
thought it was a waste of time. It's not like he's paying for it and
he can use the fact that he's complying with code as a sales tool.

R

Matt Whiting

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Mar 5, 2007, 9:57:35 PM3/5/07
to
Bob Morrison wrote:
> In a previous post Matt Whiting wrote...
>> However, it does call into question paying 3X more for "50 year" drip
>> edge. :-)
>>
>
> I suppose, but you could put (2) 25-year roofs on with the same 50-year
> drip edge.
>

True. However, if the drip edge is installed correctly it should be
over top of the roofing felt along the gables and thus should be removed
for a proper refelting anyway. I know, I know, many folks just slap a
new layer of shingles on over the existing, but I never liked that practice.

Matt

Bob Morrison

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Mar 6, 2007, 11:04:23 AM3/6/07
to
In a previous post Matt Whiting wrote...
> True. However, if the drip edge is installed correctly it should be
> over top of the roofing felt along the gables and thus should be removed
> for a proper refelting anyway. I know, I know, many folks just slap a
> new layer of shingles on over the existing, but I never liked that practice.
>

Also true, but it is common and can save substantial amounts of money when
you figure in the demo and haul cost of removing an existing roof.

BTW, I always design my roof systems to allow for two layers of asphalt
shingles.

RicodJour

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Mar 6, 2007, 12:16:19 PM3/6/07
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Bob Morrison wrote:
> In a previous post Matt Whiting wrote...
> > True. However, if the drip edge is installed correctly it should be
> > over top of the roofing felt along the gables and thus should be removed
> > for a proper refelting anyway. I know, I know, many folks just slap a
> > new layer of shingles on over the existing, but I never liked that practice.
> >
>
> Also true, but it is common and can save substantial amounts of money when
> you figure in the demo and haul cost of removing an existing roof.

Ripping off instead of reroofing also loses that valuable R-0.1
insulation from the old layer of shingles.

> BTW, I always design my roof systems to allow for two layers of asphalt
> shingles.

Asphalt? You're showing your age, Bob. Or, maybe the shingles
are. ;)

My favorite was the house with 2x4 rafters that had cedar shingles and
two layers of asphalt shingles - well, maybe the top one was
fiberglass.

You can generally tell the reroofed-too-many-times-with-inadequate-
framing houses by the sway-backed ridge. That's usually the first
place it shows up.

R

Bob Morrison

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Mar 6, 2007, 12:47:52 PM3/6/07
to
In a previous post RicodJour wrote...

> My favorite was the house with 2x4 rafters that had cedar shingles and
> two layers of asphalt shingles - well, maybe the top one was
> fiberglass.
>
> You can generally tell the reroofed-too-many-times-with-inadequate-
> framing houses by the sway-backed ridge. That's usually the first
> place it shows up.
>

That was my house in Seattle before we re-roofed as requirement of the
sale. For some reason the banks in Seattle seem to make this a standard
practice before granting loans.

RicodJour

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Mar 6, 2007, 2:22:12 PM3/6/07
to
Bob Morrison wrote:
> In a previous post RicodJour wrote...
> > My favorite was the house with 2x4 rafters that had cedar shingles and
> > two layers of asphalt shingles - well, maybe the top one was
> > fiberglass.
> >
> > You can generally tell the reroofed-too-many-times-with-inadequate-
> > framing houses by the sway-backed ridge. That's usually the first
> > place it shows up.
> >
>
> That was my house in Seattle before we re-roofed as requirement of the
> sale. For some reason the banks in Seattle seem to make this a standard
> practice before granting loans.

Never heard that one before. Makes a certain kind of sense - for the
bank!

R

Michael Bulatovich

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Mar 6, 2007, 4:23:56 PM3/6/07
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"RicodJour" <rico...@worldemail.com> wrote in message
news:1173201379.5...@64g2000cwx.googlegroups.com...

> Bob Morrison wrote:
>> In a previous post Matt Whiting wrote...
>> > True. However, if the drip edge is installed correctly it should be
>> > over top of the roofing felt along the gables and thus should be
>> > removed
>> > for a proper refelting anyway. I know, I know, many folks just slap a
>> > new layer of shingles on over the existing, but I never liked that
>> > practice.
>> >
>>
>> Also true, but it is common and can save substantial amounts of money
>> when
>> you figure in the demo and haul cost of removing an existing roof.
>
> Ripping off instead of reroofing also loses that valuable R-0.1
> insulation from the old layer of shingles.
>
>> BTW, I always design my roof systems to allow for two layers of asphalt
>> shingles.
>
> Asphalt? You're showing your age, Bob. Or, maybe the shingles
> are. ;)
>
> My favorite was the house with 2x4 rafters that had cedar shingles and
> two layers of asphalt shingles - well, maybe the top one was
> fiberglass.

That was my house. It lasted for twelve years after I bought it.


Malcolm

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Jun 30, 2011, 2:41:32 AM6/30/11