The initiative [spoilers]
george van hal
Buffy ep....
Spoilers for the initiative (Buffy s4, ep7)
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So, the truth about our army clad friends is finally revealed and <big
shock> Riley's one of 'em.
I was spoiled for this episode in the sense that I knew what the
initiative was, I knew evil bitch monster from hell was their leader and
I knew Riley was one of em. I had read that even before season 4 started
on net5, so I can't really judge if this would have been a surprise to
me if I haden't known.
I was a bit woried though, after I read the "Buffy goes James Bond"
things in mags and on website, and "America's awnser to the watchers
council" had me woried just as much. As it turned out, we've really not
seen enough of the initiative to judge if their addition to the story
line is of the good or the bad, but I liked them in this episode.
Finally some new blood and a new arc, although this initiative *does*
have the potential to get annoying and silly very very soon. But, I'm
guessing we can trust Joss not to mess that up.
Ok, so that was the initiative, on to the characters in this episode.
First off: Xander and Giles.
They're getting more and more redundant and bored. Seeing them sitting
around at giles and even at Xander's place has me woried and makes me
miss the library more and more. Give us a new base of operations, or
better yet give us back the library!!
Anyways, they should give them something to do fast, or they run the
risk of becomming empty characters, which are only still around because
of the part they played in the past. I really don't want to see that
happen to these two. But the sit now, with the initiative as another
possible help for Buffy in the future (with EBMFH taking over giles'
place in the research and order department - Let's hope that doesn't
ever happen) doesn't make me happy. GIVE THEM SOMETHING TO DO (excuse my
shouting)
Secondly: Spike.
I can't help it, but I liked Spike's inclusion in this ep. The new
addition of the "can't bite anyone" thingy in his head can prove to be a
nice adition, if handled correctly that is. The scene with Willow was
very funny and reminded me of the scene in "Lover's Walk", although
this was a little more of the funny.....it raised some questions about
Sexual feelings and biting a victem though, but not getting into
that..;-)
And then: Willow.
Still moaning about Oz. Just like expected and just like hoped. They'll
not let her get over this so easy, just like it should be. Loved the way
she pushed herself into the new "project" of getting Riley and Buffy
together.
Oz.
Even though he was not in this episode (sniff), we learned something
important about our old friend. His name!!!! At first when willow said
Daniel Osborne (it was that, right? Not a 100% sure and too lazy to
search the transcript) I was like, who?? But than it hit me, she was
talking about Oz!!! Fairly strange we've had to wait two seasons till we
got to hear his full name, but another Buffy mystery is hereby solved
:-)
Riley.
I feared the worst, and he's still not even in the same leaque as the s1
and s2 angel was, but me like Riley. Wonderfully funny lines and he
seems to care for Buffy. He allready saved willow last ep and he punched
Parker in this ep. Definatly something which makes you like a character
;-). Still we'll have to see a lot more of him before we'll be able to
make a sound judgement. Promising though....
Buffy.
Not really much going on with Buffy this ep. She was her usual self....
All in all this ep was a nice kick off point for the true season story
line to kick off. Not bad, not extremly good. It was enjoyable and it'll
probably be one of those eps which are more fun when you've seen the
rest of the season. All in all it seems that Buffy is regaining its
quality. Last weeks ep is still the best this season by far, but the
initiative was enjoyable and highly entertaining. Perhaps we'll still
get that great season everyone was hoping for.....
See YA,
George
Zwaaneveld
george van hal <hal0...@wxs.nl> schreef in berichtnieuws
391EF0CA...@wxs.nl...
It was really obvious, too much for my taste... (the whole "can't perform
thing")
But after it started they handled it well, funny:
"we can try again in half an hour... or.." SMACK!
>
> And then: Willow.
> Still moaning about Oz. Just like expected and just like hoped. They'll
> not let her get over this so easy, just like it should be. Loved the way
> she pushed herself into the new "project" of getting Riley and Buffy
> together.
She likes cheese??
Good thing if your dutch, right ;-}
>
> Oz.
> Even though he was not in this episode (sniff), we learned something
> important about our old friend. His name!!!! At first when willow said
> Daniel Osborne (it was that, right? Not a 100% sure and too lazy to
> search the transcript) I was like, who?? But than it hit me, she was
> talking about Oz!!! Fairly strange we've had to wait two seasons till we
> got to hear his full name, but another Buffy mystery is hereby solved
> :-)
I only got it when they said so....
Daniel Osborne.... Daniel Osborne....
sounds kinda strange.... dunno why
>
> Riley.
> I feared the worst, and he's still not even in the same leaque as the s1
> and s2 angel was, but me like Riley. Wonderfully funny lines and he
> seems to care for Buffy. He allready saved willow last ep and he punched
> Parker in this ep. Definatly something which makes you like a character
> ;-). Still we'll have to see a lot more of him before we'll be able to
> make a sound judgement. Promising though....
He also has some of Angel's character traits (sp?)(dutch: karakter trekken)
with the being nervous thing...
This whole initiative could become "bad action movie" like, if we're not
careful...
Parker sucks (hate him), LOVED the punch!! (needed a real punch, after beer
bad)
>
> Buffy.
> Not really much going on with Buffy this ep. She was her usual self....
>
> All in all this ep was a nice kick off point for the true season story
> line to kick off. Not bad, not extremly good. It was enjoyable and it'll
> probably be one of those eps which are more fun when you've seen the
> rest of the season. All in all it seems that Buffy is regaining its
> quality. Last weeks ep is still the best this season by far, but the
> initiative was enjoyable and highly entertaining. Perhaps we'll still
> get that great season everyone was hoping for.....
Fear not!! Hope is still there!
>
> See YA,
> George
>
Peter Kleiweg
I was not spoiled, and I was not surprised, except for the
apparent extend of the operation.
> I was a bit woried though, after I read the "Buffy goes James
> Bond" things in mags and on website, and "America's awnser to
> the watchers council" had me woried just as much. As it turned
> out, we've really not seen enough of the initiative to judge
> if their addition to the story line is of the good or the bad,
> but I liked them in this episode.
I didn't like it. Had an awkward mix of SF and Horror. The
scientific approach to demon hunting. It doesn't work (except
for Ghostbusters). It feels silly (as in Ghostbusters). And what
do Americans understand of James Bond anyway?
> Secondly: Spike.
> I can't help it, but I liked Spike's inclusion in this ep. The
> new addition of the "can't bite anyone" thingy in his head can
> prove to be a nice adition, if handled correctly that is.
I do hope he gets rid of that limiter device. I want Spike in
his full glory, not some neutered puppy. All I can hope is that
those military guys are the front of some evil organisation that
tries to harbour demon powers for their own good. And then
someone comes along and eliminates this organisation.
> And then: Willow.
> Still moaning about Oz. Just like expected and just like
> hoped. They'll not let her get over this so easy, just like it
> should be. Loved the way she pushed herself into the new
> "project" of getting Riley and Buffy together.
Well, for not liking Willow, I was very pleased with the way she
was in this episode. The way Buffy has been moaning for the last
twenty episodes or so, Willow's grieve was surprisingly sincere.
> Riley.
> I feared the worst, and he's still not even in the same leaque
> as the s1 and s2 angel was, but me like Riley. Wonderfully
> funny lines and he seems to care for Buffy. He allready saved
> willow last ep and he punched Parker in this ep. Definatly
> something which makes you like a character
I don't like him. And the more `nice' he becomes, the more
difficult it will be to get rid of him.
Still, an interesting episode. A bit worried were it's going to.
--
Peter Kleiweg | P e t r o n o m i c o n |
e-mail: invalid -> nl | http://www.let.rug.nl/~kleiweg |
Guardian of Spike's Innocence, and his Dislike of Puppies
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Between me and my evil self, I've got double guilt coupons. I
see now where the path of vice leads.
-- Willow, Doppelgängland
Mattia Valente
george van hal wrote:
>
> And we're taking a break from learning the exams to discuss the latest
> Buffy ep....
Liar.
> I was spoiled for this episode in the sense that I knew what the
> initiative was, I knew evil bitch monster from hell was their leader and
Ahem. Its Evil Bitch Monster of Death, you know..;-)
> I knew Riley was one of em. I had read that even before season 4 started
> on net5, so I can't really judge if this would have been a surprise to
> me if I haden't known.
I don't think it would've been a total surprise; they kept showing these
2 characters (Walsh being the only teacher of Buffy's we ever get to
see..) so something had to be up. That Walsh was involved in the
Initiative, maybe a little bit of a shoker, but nothing mind numbingly
amazing, methinks...anyone who wasn't spoiled care to disagree with me?
> I was a bit woried though, after I read the "Buffy goes James Bond"
> things in mags and on website, and "America's awnser to the watchers
> council" had me woried just as much. As it turned out, we've really not
> seen enough of the initiative to judge if their addition to the story
> line is of the good or the bad, but I liked them in this episode.
Thing is, trade mags have this annoying tendency to blow thing out of
proportion (as I see it at the moment..future eps could very well change
my position..lets hope they don't.) And anyway, the Watchers Council are
nowhere near as proactive as the Initiative. From what we've seen, they
have a huge hidden underground complex (REALLY big. Look at the size of
that Hall! And all underground too!) and they go off and abduct Vamps.
Aren't particularly good at vamps though, it seems..Spike was only
number 17. BTW, fun detail having the vamp in the neighboring cell be
the one that was zapped at the end of 'The Freshmen'. We also saw a
bunch of other types of demons undergoing some types of medical
procedures. All we know so far is that EBMOD has developed some implant
that inhibits aggresive behaviour from vamps (maybe other demons too?
Who knows at this point..) Seems to work. Witness Spike (still don't
know if I like this...)
> Finally some new blood and a new arc, although this initiative *does*
> have the potential to get annoying and silly very very soon. But, I'm
> guessing we can trust Joss not to mess that up.
I hope we can (hope he wasn't too busy with Angel ;-) I can see the
Initiative turning into a pretty good plotline (has a bit of an X-Filesy
feel to it, somehow..conspiracy, hit squads, etc...need to get more info
about them though...must know more.) or a bad plotline if its
overextended. I can see why a lot of fans might not like this; gets
further and further away from that High School feel of the first 3
seasons..Personally, I don't mind. Can't hold on to the past for that
long, no matter what we wish for. Deal. ;-)
> Ok, so that was the initiative, on to the characters in this episode.
YAY!
> First off: Xander and Giles.
> They're getting more and more redundant and bored. Seeing them sitting
> around at giles and even at Xander's place has me woried and makes me
> miss the library more and more. Give us a new base of operations, or
> better yet give us back the library!!
Agree completely. We need some big scary evil that they are required to
tackle. Granted, this ep had Spike and nobody else as an evil enemy
(well, save for Harmony, more on that later..), and not too much at
that. No big evil here, just big confrontation with the Initiative, and
we STILL hardly have any details on them. And yet, we liked the ep.
Interesting, isn't it?
As for the Library: You DO recall that its been blown to smithereens,
right? ;-) Wonder if they've rebuilt the school
yet..As for Harmony: Wasn't there some ridiculous rumor that she would
be the S4 villan? She can't even beat up Xander (that scene was
incredibly funny. EXTREMELY hilarious if you ask me. Whole ep was, in
fact!), so what chance has she got..As for Xander, too bad his little
Solider Boy skills are all rusty now. That Giles outpreforms him in
dealing with firearms (OK, flare guns..) is a little scary ;-)
> Anyways, they should give them something to do fast, or they run the
> risk of becomming empty characters, which are only still around because
> of the part they played in the past. I really don't want to see that
> happen to these two. But the sit now, with the initiative as another
> possible help for Buffy in the future (with EBMFH taking over giles'
> place in the research and order department - Let's hope that doesn't
> ever happen) doesn't make me happy. GIVE THEM SOMETHING TO DO (excuse my
> shouting)
Hehe, shouting excused..As for empty characters; danger is there,
although it seems (from non-specific spoiler, ie. no plot lines known to
me) that Xander at least will be around in a useful capacity in the
future. Hope that goes for Giles as well. Honestly, I don't see Walsh
(or the EBMOD, which is the correct acronym :-P) being much help in
research as far as battling evil demons is concerned; she wants them
captured and used for some sort of experimentation. Doesn't seem to have
much of an occult reference library or the skill, knowledge and training
that Giles has had. Witness the fact that a mere 17 vamps have been
taken thus far, and the number of vamps that Buffy slays in a year, plus
the number of other demons and evils she faces..then count in detailed
watchers diaries and histories of past slayers. I would say the scooby
gang has more on the knowledge front, if not on the high tech
front..say, mebbe Willow could hack their system and find out more about
them (if they are stupid enough to be wired up..the Mayor was ;-)
Back to Giles and Xander: This ep, not much to do for anyone, really.
Buffy only beat up Riley (and got a pretty good beating herself) and
Spike failed at attacking Willow. Spike has the highest body count and
aggressive behaviour quota for this ep.
> Secondly: Spike.
> I can't help it, but I liked Spike's inclusion in this ep. The new
> addition of the "can't bite anyone" thingy in his head can prove to be a
> nice adition, if handled correctly that is. The scene with Willow was
Thats where my uncertainty kicks in; I don't know if I WANT a Spike who
doesn't go around and try biting people. Thats part of his charm:
Dangerous, yet funny witty and not really that harmful after
all..de-fanging Spike! How could they! OTOH, hand does offer a lot of
great oppurtunities for humor, and some more interesting and varied
plotlines than "Me Spike, Me Want Kill Slayer" and him actually being
able to do so. That would be too S2 in a snes (which is generally a GOOD
thing, mind you, but wouldn't fit in here anymore..) Also gives us more
of an excuse not to have Buffy slay him (finally) which would be
traumatic for the fans, I believe ;-) Anyway, where is Peter at? Ph,
never mind, just saw his posts....haven;t read em yet tho ;-)
> very funny and reminded me of the scene in "Lover's Walk", although
> this was a little more of the funny.....it raised some questions about
> Sexual feelings and biting a victem though, but not getting into
> that..;-)
That was pretty funny indeed. It basically that Willow feels sorry for
people quite easily, and her own bad sitch doesn't help things. Kinda
typical for Will, leading to very funny discussion. The thing I found
most amusing was here showing her insecurities again (Stop with the Self
Flagellation Willow!!!!) with the whole "Its me, isn't it?" bit. How
Spike comforted her was actually incredibly amusing, with the "I wanted
you. Remember the pick fuzzy thing with the lilac?" bit (from memory
there..) lines. What that brought up was images from DGL (watched that
yesterday, was bored. Studying not a good alternative ;-) in which
VampWillow comments: "I'm all...Fuzzy" and in which, lo and behold,
she's wearing a pink fuzzy sweater :-) Maybe Spike Vamped Willow in that
alternate universe because of that..Okay, okay, far fetched (not the
only pick Fuzzy thing Willow owns, I would bet..;-) but still, possible
(Okay, we also didn't see any Spike or Dru in the alternate Universe,
but that doesn't mean anything! :-)
> And then: Willow.
> Still moaning about Oz. Just like expected and just like hoped. They'll
> not let her get over this so easy, just like it should be. Loved the way
> she pushed herself into the new "project" of getting Riley and Buffy
> together.
She deals in a less annoying way than Buffy. Her pain was very visible
in that whole first speech thing with Riley; very, very nice dialogue
going on there. Honestly, at this point, the chemistry is more present
between Willow and Riley than it is between Buffy and Riley..lets hope
that changes some ;-)
> Oz.
> Even though he was not in this episode (sniff), we learned something
> important about our old friend. His name!!!! At first when willow said
> Daniel Osborne (it was that, right? Not a 100% sure and too lazy to
> search the transcript) I was like, who?? But than it hit me, she was
> talking about Oz!!! Fairly strange we've had to wait two seasons till we
> got to hear his full name, but another Buffy mystery is hereby solved
> :-)
Yep. Daniel 'Oz' Osbourne..weird finally having a real name put to the
face there..
> Riley.
> I feared the worst, and he's still not even in the same leaque as the s1
> and s2 angel was, but me like Riley. Wonderfully funny lines and he
> seems to care for Buffy. He allready saved willow last ep and he punched
> Parker in this ep. Definatly something which makes you like a character
> ;-). Still we'll have to see a lot more of him before we'll be able to
> make a sound judgement. Promising though....
Me like Riley too. For now. Not sure 'bout him and Buffy yet
(specifically, about Buffy liking him: not happening yet, will have to
grow and develop, lets hope the chemistry appears in the future.) He has
done lotsa good stuff (Punching Parker was great..happened just about
when I felt like doing so myself.) And yes, a lot of funny bits (opening
dialogue was great: "She's so hot, she's Buffy/That's her
name"...hehehe....Staying with that: Wow! A non-caucasian cast
member..wonder if he lives longer than the school counselor or Mr. Trck
did ;-)
Problem I have is that a couple of people have told me he gets more and
more annoying. Lets hope its just their intrpretationa and that I feel
differently. I like to like him right now. He's no Angel, never will be,
but he's not bad..
> Buffy.
> Not really much going on with Buffy this ep. She was her usual self....
Yep. Ep wasn't really about her. Didn't do much. Riley, Willow, Spike,
Xander and Giles did more (well, 'cept for the last two maybe..)
> All in all this ep was a nice kick off point for the true season story
> line to kick off. Not bad, not extremly good. It was enjoyable and it'll
> probably be one of those eps which are more fun when you've seen the
> rest of the season. All in all it seems that Buffy is regaining its
> quality. Last weeks ep is still the best this season by far, but the
> initiative was enjoyable and highly entertaining. Perhaps we'll still
> get that great season everyone was hoping for.....
I'm not counting on a season that matches the greatness of S2/S3 for
now, but I think this looks really promising, with a good overall
season. Granted, I'm actually pretty easy to please as far as Buffy eps
go (I LIKED Beer Bad <ducks>) but this looks good now..treat the
storyline well guys, its got potential. I would actually class this ep
as number 2 in my hitlist (after WaH..) for this season so far. Granted,
not much competition yet. Also one of the funniest eps in there (without
being a purely comical ep like Beer Bad <ducks again> ;-)
There, thats all for now, I'll pretend to go study for exams now..
Mattia
Wordy Poster Extraordinaire[tm]
Mattia Valente
> > Secondly: Spike.
> > I can't help it, but I liked Spike's inclusion in this ep. The new
> > addition of the "can't bite anyone" thingy in his head can prove to be a
> > nice adition, if handled correctly that is. The scene with Willow was
> > very funny and reminded me of the scene in "Lover's Walk", although
> > this was a little more of the funny.....it raised some questions about
> > Sexual feelings and biting a victem though, but not getting into
> > that..;-)
>
> It was really obvious, too much for my taste... (the whole "can't perform
> thing")
I liked it because it was so over the top and really, really silly.
Worked for me.
> But after it started they handled it well, funny:
> "we can try again in half an hour... or.." SMACK!
That sudden slow realization there. Brilliant ;-)
> > And then: Willow.
> > Still moaning about Oz. Just like expected and just like hoped. They'll
> > not let her get over this so easy, just like it should be. Loved the way
> > she pushed herself into the new "project" of getting Riley and Buffy
> > together.
>
> She likes cheese??
Hehe..that was funny. Funnier because Riley actually used it. D'OH! What
a klutz....funny klutz though.
> Good thing if your dutch, right ;-}
Or french, but theirs smells and tastes nasty <ducks>
> > Oz.
> > Even though he was not in this episode (sniff), we learned something
> > important about our old friend. His name!!!! At first when willow said
> > Daniel Osborne (it was that, right? Not a 100% sure and too lazy to
> > search the transcript) I was like, who?? But than it hit me, she was
> > talking about Oz!!! Fairly strange we've had to wait two seasons till we
> > got to hear his full name, but another Buffy mystery is hereby solved
> > :-)
>
> I only got it when they said so....
> Daniel Osborne.... Daniel Osborne....
> sounds kinda strange.... dunno why
Because its a name in 2 parts, instead of 2 letters, and sounds much too
serious for Oz? Just guessing....:-)
> > Riley.
> > I feared the worst, and he's still not even in the same leaque as the s1
> > and s2 angel was, but me like Riley. Wonderfully funny lines and he
> > seems to care for Buffy. He allready saved willow last ep and he punched
> > Parker in this ep. Definatly something which makes you like a character
> > ;-). Still we'll have to see a lot more of him before we'll be able to
> > make a sound judgement. Promising though....
>
> He also has some of Angel's character traits (sp?)(dutch: karakter trekken)
> with the being nervous thing...
Yeah, and big. Except he's alive, not so mysterious (as a persona..he
has his hidden side, just he hides it better.) Less intriguing and
charismatic than Angel was though. 'Course Angel, we know well, and
Riley we've barely met..
> This whole initiative could become "bad action movie" like, if we're not
> careful...
Agree. Have to be careful. Some 'Bad Action Movie' bits can be fun for
comedy's sake. It also has the whole conspiracy/X-Files thing going on
there..
> Parker sucks (hate him), LOVED the punch!! (needed a real punch, after beer
> bad)
The Beer Bad head whacking was worse for him. Got knocked out twice.
Those punches were funny, this one he really, REALLY deserved! Made me
like Riley s'more (that and saving Willow in the last ep..)
> > Buffy.
> > Not really much going on with Buffy this ep. She was her usual self....
> >
> > All in all this ep was a nice kick off point for the true season story
> > line to kick off. Not bad, not extremly good. It was enjoyable and it'll
> > probably be one of those eps which are more fun when you've seen the
> > rest of the season. All in all it seems that Buffy is regaining its
> > quality. Last weeks ep is still the best this season by far, but the
> > initiative was enjoyable and highly entertaining. Perhaps we'll still
> > get that great season everyone was hoping for.....
>
> Fear not!! Hope is still there!
You a spoiler slut too? Or are you just being optimistic?
Mattia
(not so) Wordy Poster Dude[tm]
Mattia Valente
>
> george van hal skriver...
> > and <big shock> Riley's one of 'em.
> > the initiative was, I knew evil bitch monster from hell was
> > even before season 4 started on net5, so I can't really judge
> > if this would have been a surprise to me if I haden't known.
>
> apparent extend of the operation.
That settles one of my questions..
> > I was a bit woried though, after I read the "Buffy goes James
> > Bond" things in mags and on website, and "America's awnser to
> > the watchers council" had me woried just as much. As it turned
> > out, we've really not seen enough of the initiative to judge
> > if their addition to the story line is of the good or the bad,
> > but I liked them in this episode.
>
> I didn't like it. Had an awkward mix of SF and Horror. The
> scientific approach to demon hunting. It doesn't work (except
> for Ghostbusters). It feels silly (as in Ghostbusters). And what
> do Americans understand of James Bond anyway?
Seemed a little X-Files to me, and the scope of the thing is what makes
it impressive and at the same time more unlikely and alittle odd. Don't
know if I really like this much. Doesn't feel particularly 'silly' to
me; I kinda like ot so far. Not really James Bond-y for me.
> > Secondly: Spike.
> > I can't help it, but I liked Spike's inclusion in this ep. The
> > new addition of the "can't bite anyone" thingy in his head can
> > prove to be a nice adition, if handled correctly that is.
>
> I do hope he gets rid of that limiter device. I want Spike in
> his full glory, not some neutered puppy. All I can hope is that
> those military guys are the front of some evil organisation that
> tries to harbour demon powers for their own good. And then
> someone comes along and eliminates this organisation.
Somehow, I knew you would say something like that :-)
I don't think that the whole initiative is gonna turn out all evil. Not
sure they'll stay all good though (that WOULD be boring....can't see
that happening. Even the watchers council had a bad element slip in..)
As for eliminating the whole organization: that could be a chore. A fun
and interesting one for plots though...
> > And then: Willow.
> > Still moaning about Oz. Just like expected and just like
> > hoped. They'll not let her get over this so easy, just like it
> > should be. Loved the way she pushed herself into the new
> > "project" of getting Riley and Buffy together.
>
> Well, for not liking Willow, I was very pleased with the way she
> was in this episode. The way Buffy has been moaning for the last
> twenty episodes or so, Willow's grieve was surprisingly sincere.
Agree, handled much better, though the hurst and emotions are still very
clearly there (her ascerbic dialogue with Riley..)
> > Riley.
> > I feared the worst, and he's still not even in the same leaque
> > as the s1 and s2 angel was, but me like Riley. Wonderfully
> > funny lines and he seems to care for Buffy. He allready saved
> > willow last ep and he punched Parker in this ep. Definatly
> > something which makes you like a character
>
> I don't like him. And the more `nice' he becomes, the more
> difficult it will be to get rid of him.
Agree. Problem if he needs getting rid of in the future. OTOH, 'nother
good way to set up a dramatic death sequence..:-)
> Still, an interesting episode. A bit worried were it's going to.
I share the worries (mainly about Spike, I'll hold off judgement on the
initiative until I see how annoying they are.)
Mattia
george van hal
Zwaaneveld wrote:
> Ha! I posted first!! =]
Yeah, congrats :-)
> > Secondly: Spike.
> > I can't help it, but I liked Spike's inclusion in this ep. The new
> > addition of the "can't bite anyone" thingy in his head can prove to be a
> > nice adition, if handled correctly that is. The scene with Willow was
> > very funny and reminded me of the scene in "Lover's Walk", although
> > this was a little more of the funny.....it raised some questions about
> > Sexual feelings and biting a victem though, but not getting into
> > that..;-)
>
> It was really obvious, too much for my taste... (the whole "can't perform
> thing")
> But after it started they handled it well, funny:
> "we can try again in half an hour... or.." SMACK!
Yeah, that was fairly funny. A felt a bit weird and out of character though,
but I can't really put my finger on it. Perhaps it's just me. A rewatch'll have
to prove that :-)
> > And then: Willow.
> > Still moaning about Oz. Just like expected and just like hoped. They'll
> > not let her get over this so easy, just like it should be. Loved the way
> > she pushed herself into the new "project" of getting Riley and Buffy
> > together.
>
> She likes cheese??
> Good thing if your dutch, right ;-}
Well, perhaps :-)
> Oz.
>
> I only got it when they said so....
> Daniel Osborne.... Daniel Osborne....
> sounds kinda strange.... dunno why
Yes, never pictured Oz as a Daniel. Just doesn't have the same ring to
it......
> He also has some of Angel's character traits (sp?)(dutch: karakter trekken)
> with the being nervous thing...
Ok, perhaps. But I don't think we ever saw Angel being that nervous. Also,
Riley completly lacks the trademark angel brooding skills.....
> This whole initiative could become "bad action movie" like, if we're not
> careful...
> Parker sucks (hate him), LOVED the punch!! (needed a real punch, after beer
> bad)
Agree :-)
See Ya,
George - who's wondering where all the regulars are.....hope we didn't have any
regs from enschede, what a mess it is over there. Also hope nobody thought
tonights Buffy was cancelled with all the extra news programming.....
So anyways, where are all you guys?....it's so empty in here
(ere...ere....ere....ere...)
Jonathan Black
> George - who's wondering where all the regulars are.....hope we
> didn't have any regs from enschede, what a mess it is over there.
> Also hope nobody thought tonights Buffy was cancelled with all the
> extra news programming..... So anyways, where are all you
> guys?....it's so empty in here (ere...ere....ere....ere...)
I'm still here :-) ... desparately trying to keep up the pace. For
the record, I still haven't come close to reading all the posts on
`Wild at Heart', and by the time I checked into the group tonight it
was already crawling with posts on `The Initiative' (Mattia Valente,
Mattia Valente, Mattia Valente, Mattia Valente, Mattia Valente,
Mattia Valente, Mattia Valente, Mattia Valente, and a couple of
other people I can't remember ;-)). Anyway, at least I've seen the
ep on the day itself this time, so I still perhaps have a fighting
chance of keeping up with this group (I've been reading every single
post in n.k.s+f for a while now, but never really tried to add a
second group to that level until now).
First off, I HATE SPOILERS! Like many of you, I had heard enough
shit to know that Riley was gonna turn out to be one of the
"military guys". Don't think I'd ever really have come up with that
myself, I'm usually pretty naive when it comes to predicting
anything like that. Didn't know that Maggie was gonna be in on it as
well though, so I still had that surprise. One point I'd like to
make on this whole thing: last week's ep "Wild at Heart" had Maggie
meeting the two werewolves one night and talking to Riley about it
the next day. They sounded pretty much like Innocent Citizens [tm]
there - "I was attacked by WILD DOGS!" - and initially, before Buffy
got interested and butted in, they were only talking to eachother,
so no reason to be faking anything, one would think. My point is,
given that we now know they are both part of an organized demon
hunting operation of sorts, and they seem to know all about vampires
and everything, shouldn't they at least know what a werewolf is, and
doesn't this make that conversation a little weird? Oh and please
don't just say werewolves have nothing to do with vampires and
demons, well OK you can if you like, but explain it!
Think I'll leave it at that for now; you guys have already done most
of the main comments on this episode. I liked it. Say, 7 out of 10?
;-)
--
J o N a T H a N
george van hal
Jonathan Black wrote:
> On Sun, 14 May 2000, george van hal wrote:
>
> > George - who's wondering where all the regulars are.....hope we
> > didn't have any regs from enschede, what a mess it is over there.
> > Also hope nobody thought tonights Buffy was cancelled with all the
> > extra news programming..... So anyways, where are all you
> > guys?....it's so empty in here (ere...ere....ere....ere...)
>
> I'm still here :-) ... desparately trying to keep up the pace. For
> the record, I still haven't come close to reading all the posts on
> `Wild at Heart', and by the time I checked into the group tonight it
> was already crawling with posts on `The Initiative' (Mattia Valente,
> Mattia Valente, Mattia Valente, Mattia Valente, Mattia Valente,
> Mattia Valente, Mattia Valente, Mattia Valente, and a couple of
> other people I can't remember ;-)).
Yeah, really weird.....
I didn't see *any* posts beside mine and those from "zwaaneveld"
yesterday, but this morning they're all here and apareantly they we're
all posted waaaaay before I checked the last time last night. Don't know
what was going on there, hope it doesn't happen again......
> Anyway, at least I've seen the
> ep on the day itself this time, so I still perhaps have a fighting
> chance of keeping up with this group (I've been reading every single
> post in n.k.s+f for a while now, but never really tried to add a
> second group to that level until now).
>
> First off, I HATE SPOILERS! Like many of you, I had heard enough
> shit to know that Riley was gonna turn out to be one of the
> "military guys". Don't think I'd ever really have come up with that
> myself, I'm usually pretty naive when it comes to predicting
> anything like that. Didn't know that Maggie was gonna be in on it as
> well though, so I still had that surprise. One point I'd like to
> make on this whole thing: last week's ep "Wild at Heart" had Maggie
> meeting the two werewolves one night and talking to Riley about it
> the next day. They sounded pretty much like Innocent Citizens [tm]
> there - "I was attacked by WILD DOGS!" - and initially, before Buffy
> got interested and butted in, they were only talking to eachother,
> so no reason to be faking anything, one would think. My point is,
> given that we now know they are both part of an organized demon
> hunting operation of sorts, and they seem to know all about vampires
> and everything, shouldn't they at least know what a werewolf is, and
> doesn't this make that conversation a little weird? Oh and please
> don't just say werewolves have nothing to do with vampires and
> demons, well OK you can if you like, but explain it!
I *know*. Because I knew that, that was bothering me in WaH as well. The
talk, the fact that EBMFH acted like a very scared civilian woman when
Oz in wolf mode was after her. But the only reason I can think of, is
that the initiative was talking in code there. As in gorilla like wild
dog = werewolf. Wasn't a very clear scene though.....
> Think I'll leave it at that for now; you guys have already done most
> of the main comments on this episode. I liked it. Say, 7 out of 10?
Agree ;-)
See Ya,
George
george van hal
Mattia Valente wrote:
> Hehe...a big long post. Looks like fun, I'll jump right in ;-)
And you made it a *lot* longer.......not complaining though (still wonder why
I couldn't see any other posts yesterday, when I actually had *time* to reply.
Ah well.....) :-)
Well, yeah, ok :-)
> > I was spoiled for this episode in the sense that I knew what the
> > initiative was, I knew evil bitch monster from hell was their leader and
>
> Ahem. Its Evil Bitch Monster of Death, you know..;-)
Oh, yeah....my bad :-) I'll try to remember that next time.....
> > I knew Riley was one of em. I had read that even before season 4 started
> > on net5, so I can't really judge if this would have been a surprise to
> > me if I haden't known.
>
> I don't think it would've been a total surprise; they kept showing these
> 2 characters (Walsh being the only teacher of Buffy's we ever get to
> see..) so something had to be up. That Walsh was involved in the
> Initiative, maybe a little bit of a shoker, but nothing mind numbingly
> amazing, methinks...anyone who wasn't spoiled care to disagree with me?
Indeed didn't think so either......but you never know :-)
> I was a bit woried though, after I read the "Buffy goes James Bond"
> > things in mags and on website, and "America's awnser to the watchers
> > council" had me woried just as much. As it turned out, we've really not
> > seen enough of the initiative to judge if their addition to the story
> > line is of the good or the bad, but I liked them in this episode.
>
> Thing is, trade mags have this annoying tendency to blow thing out of
> proportion (as I see it at the moment..future eps could very well change
> my position..lets hope they don't.) And anyway, the Watchers Council are
> nowhere near as proactive as the Initiative. From what we've seen, they
> have a huge hidden underground complex (REALLY big. Look at the size of
> that Hall! And all underground too!) and they go off and abduct Vamps.
> Aren't particularly good at vamps though, it seems..Spike was only
> number 17. BTW, fun detail having the vamp in the neighboring cell be
> the one that was zapped at the end of 'The Freshmen'. We also saw a
> bunch of other types of demons undergoing some types of medical
> procedures. All we know so far is that EBMOD has developed some implant
> that inhibits aggresive behaviour from vamps (maybe other demons too?
> Who knows at this point..) Seems to work. Witness Spike (still don't
> know if I like this...)
Indeed. But who's to say that those 17 were all they had?? They could start
recounting each month for all we know, and 17 a month would definatly not be a
bad ratio......
Still weirdly large building, raises questions of how the hell they got it
completed with it being beneeth a campus and all.
Nobody explained about the construction noises ;-)? Ah well, that's me being
picky again.......
> > Finally some new blood and a new arc, although this initiative *does*
> > have the potential to get annoying and silly very very soon. But, I'm
> > guessing we can trust Joss not to mess that up.
>
> I hope we can (hope he wasn't too busy with Angel ;-)
Yeah, but I was wondering. Wasn't Angel supposed to be completly David
Greenwalt's show?? That would mean our old friend Joss actually came up with
the first 5 eps....worrying......
> I can see the
> Initiative turning into a pretty good plotline (has a bit of an X-Filesy
> feel to it, somehow..conspiracy, hit squads, etc...need to get more info
> about them though...must know more.) or a bad plotline if its
> overextended.
Agree much. Let's hope it'll be of the good *crosses fingers*
> I can see why a lot of fans might not like this; gets
> further and further away from that High School feel of the first 3
> seasons..Personally, I don't mind.
Well, actually I *do* mind a bit. I mean that "highschool feel" got me
addicted to the show, and I *really really* miss that a lot. It's like the old
Buffy ended and we got a new Buffy in return (the show that is, not the
characters). It's really very very bad we'll never get any new s1-3 type
eps....but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy the new season. It's *still* Buffy,
and I'm *still* insanely addicted, so I'm not complaining (a lot....). Hope
some of these days joss'll find a way to do an episode in the old setting (one
can dream...)
> Can't hold on to the past for that
> long, no matter what we wish for. Deal. ;-)
Trying to, trying to :-)
> > Ok, so that was the initiative, on to the characters in this episode.
>
> YAY!
;-)
> > First off: Xander and Giles.
> > They're getting more and more redundant and bored. Seeing them sitting
> > around at giles and even at Xander's place has me woried and makes me
> > miss the library more and more. Give us a new base of operations, or
> > better yet give us back the library!!
>
> Agree completely. We need some big scary evil that they are required to
> tackle. Granted, this ep had Spike and nobody else as an evil enemy
> (well, save for Harmony, more on that later..), and not too much at
> that. No big evil here, just big confrontation with the Initiative, and
> we STILL hardly have any details on them. And yet, we liked the ep.
> Interesting, isn't it?
It's allways interesting :-)
> As for the Library: You DO recall that its been blown to smithereens,
> right? ;-) Wonder if they've rebuilt the school
> yet..
*Yes* I rememeber. Don't know why giles can't still be a librarian there
though (assuming they rebuilt) with the old gang coming in to see him over
there, just like old times. Yeah, I know probably wouldn't work. But I *miss*
the library...ah well ;-)
> As for Harmony: Wasn't there some ridiculous rumor that she would
> be the S4 villan? She can't even beat up Xander (that scene was
> incredibly funny. EXTREMELY hilarious if you ask me. Whole ep was, in
> fact!), so what chance has she got..
I *know*. I was thinking about that rumour as I watched that scene (another
hint of reading this group just too often ;-)). No *way* she's gonna be the
main villian. I'm thinking this'll be the first season without a true main
villain. They can just expand on the initiative and explore the new spike,
without someone having a plot to destroy the world......
> As for Xander, too bad his little
> Solider Boy skills are all rusty now. That Giles outpreforms him in
> dealing with firearms (OK, flare guns..) is a little scary ;-)
Yeah, weird that though. His army skills were still in tact for GD2 and that
was very long after the s2 halloween allready, so it seems weird he's now lost
that.....
> > Anyways, they should give them something to do fast, or they run the
> > risk of becomming empty characters, which are only still around because
> > of the part they played in the past. I really don't want to see that
> > happen to these two. But the sit now, with the initiative as another
> > possible help for Buffy in the future (with EBMFH taking over giles'
> > place in the research and order department - Let's hope that doesn't
> > ever happen) doesn't make me happy. GIVE THEM SOMETHING TO DO (excuse my
> > shouting)
>
> Hehe, shouting excused..As for empty characters; danger is there,
> although it seems (from non-specific spoiler, ie. no plot lines known to
> me) that Xander at least will be around in a useful capacity in the
> future. Hope that goes for Giles as well. Honestly, I don't see Walsh
> (or the EBMOD, which is the correct acronym :-P)
Yeah, yeah I know ;-)
> being much help in
> research as far as battling evil demons is concerned; she wants them
> captured and used for some sort of experimentation. Doesn't seem to have
> much of an occult reference library or the skill, knowledge and training
> that Giles has had. Witness the fact that a mere 17 vamps have been
> taken thus far, and the number of vamps that Buffy slays in a year, plus
> the number of other demons and evils she faces..then count in detailed
> watchers diaries and histories of past slayers. I would say the scooby
> gang has more on the knowledge front, if not on the high tech
> front..say, mebbe Willow could hack their system and find out more about
> them (if they are stupid enough to be wired up..the Mayor was ;-)
> Back to Giles and Xander: This ep, not much to do for anyone, really.
> Buffy only beat up Riley (and got a pretty good beating herself) and
> Spike failed at attacking Willow. Spike has the highest body count and
> aggressive behaviour quota for this ep.
Agree.......
> > Secondly: Spike.
> > I can't help it, but I liked Spike's inclusion in this ep. The new
> > addition of the "can't bite anyone" thingy in his head can prove to be a
> > nice adition, if handled correctly that is. The scene with Willow was
>
> Thats where my uncertainty kicks in; I don't know if I WANT a Spike who
> doesn't go around and try biting people. Thats part of his charm:
> Dangerous, yet funny witty and not really that harmful after
> all..de-fanging Spike! How could they! OTOH, hand does offer a lot of
> great oppurtunities for humor, and some more interesting and varied
> plotlines than "Me Spike, Me Want Kill Slayer" and him actually being
> able to do so. That would be too S2 in a snes (which is generally a GOOD
> thing, mind you, but wouldn't fit in here anymore..)
Yes, we saw in the last few eps that the writers couldn't find anything
original for spike to do, so they used him as comic relief. This opens new
possibilities.........
> Also gives us more
> of an excuse not to have Buffy slay him (finally) which would be
> traumatic for the fans, I believe ;-)
Oh, definatly. Know of at least one person in this group who would be shocked
;-)
> Anyway, where is Peter at? Ph,
> never mind, just saw his posts....haven;t read em yet tho ;-)
>
> > And then: Willow.
> > Still moaning about Oz. Just like expected and just like hoped. They'll
> > not let her get over this so easy, just like it should be. Loved the way
> > she pushed herself into the new "project" of getting Riley and Buffy
> > together.
>
> She deals in a less annoying way than Buffy. Her pain was very visible
> in that whole first speech thing with Riley; very, very nice dialogue
> going on there. Honestly, at this point, the chemistry is more present
> between Willow and Riley than it is between Buffy and Riley..lets hope
> that changes some ;-)
Indeed ;-) But than again, chemistry is allways present when willow's acting,
soooo ;-)
> > Oz.
> > Even though he was not in this episode (sniff), we learned something
> > important about our old friend. His name!!!! At first when willow said
> > Daniel Osborne (it was that, right? Not a 100% sure and too lazy to
> > search the transcript) I was like, who?? But than it hit me, she was
> > talking about Oz!!! Fairly strange we've had to wait two seasons till we
> > got to hear his full name, but another Buffy mystery is hereby solved
> > :-)
>
> Yep. Daniel 'Oz' Osbourne..weird finally having a real name put to the
> face there..
Daniel, Daniel, Daniel.....nope still not working for me......
> > Riley.
> > I feared the worst, and he's still not even in the same leaque as the s1
> > and s2 angel was, but me like Riley. Wonderfully funny lines and he
> > seems to care for Buffy. He allready saved willow last ep and he punched
> > Parker in this ep. Definatly something which makes you like a character
> > ;-). Still we'll have to see a lot more of him before we'll be able to
> > make a sound judgement. Promising though....
>
> Me like Riley too. For now. Not sure 'bout him and Buffy yet
> (specifically, about Buffy liking him: not happening yet, will have to
> grow and develop, lets hope the chemistry appears in the future.) He has
> done lotsa good stuff (Punching Parker was great..happened just about
> when I felt like doing so myself.) And yes, a lot of funny bits (opening
> dialogue was great: "She's so hot, she's Buffy/That's her
> name"...hehehe....
Yep, very funny....and I agree ;-) (boring isn't it ;-))
> Staying with that: Wow! A non-caucasian cast
> member..wonder if he lives longer than the school counselor or Mr. Trck
> did ;-)
Yeah, we've not seen that in a huge while. First person with more than one
line who was non-caucasian and as not a bad guy.......
> Problem I have is that a couple of people have told me he gets more and
> more annoying. Lets hope its just their intrpretationa and that I feel
> differently. I like to like him right now. He's no Angel, never will be,
> but he's not bad..
Agree ;-)
>
> > Buffy.
> > Not really much going on with Buffy this ep. She was her usual self....
>
> Yep. Ep wasn't really about her. Didn't do much. Riley, Willow, Spike,
> Xander and Giles did more (well, 'cept for the last two maybe..)
>
> > All in all this ep was a nice kick off point for the true season story
> > line to kick off. Not bad, not extremly good. It was enjoyable and it'll
> > probably be one of those eps which are more fun when you've seen the
> > rest of the season. All in all it seems that Buffy is regaining its
> > quality. Last weeks ep is still the best this season by far, but the
> > initiative was enjoyable and highly entertaining. Perhaps we'll still
> > get that great season everyone was hoping for.....
>
> I'm not counting on a season that matches the greatness of S2/S3 for
> now, but I think this looks really promising, with a good overall
> season.
Indeed. It's hard to be good and original after the brilliant s2 and very
good s3.....lets just hope it isn't a downward tendacy.......
> Granted, I'm actually pretty easy to please as far as Buffy eps
> go (I LIKED Beer Bad <ducks>) but this looks good now..treat the
> storyline well guys, its got potential.
Indeed. You're very easy to please guy when it comes to Buffy eps....which is
a good thing. Wish I had that a bit more, actually.....
> I would actually class this ep
> as number 2 in my hitlist (after WaH..) for this season so far.
Agreed......
> Granted,
> not much competition yet. Also one of the funniest eps in there (without
> being a purely comical ep like Beer Bad <ducks again> ;-)
Throws all sorts of stuff at mattia's head........
> There, thats all for now, I'll pretend to go study for exams now..
*lol*. Don't just pretend.......I know internet and going out with friends
waaaay to much messed up my studies last year (granted I *hated* chemistry
after a few weeks), but still.....ok I'll stop being awkward weird advice guy
right now ;-)
See Ya,
George
Peter Kleiweg
> Mattia Valente wrote:
> > Aren't particularly good at vamps though, it seems..Spike
> > was only number 17.
> Indeed. But who's to say that those 17 were all they had??
> They could start recounting each month for all we know, and 17
> a month would definatly not be a bad ratio......
They could just be talking about the number of the cubicle he
was assigned to. No idea how often and how soon these cells are
reused.
> > Staying with that: Wow! A non-caucasian cast member..wonder
> > if he lives longer than the school counselor or Mr. Trck did
> > ;-)
>
> Yeah, we've not seen that in a huge while. First person with
> more than one line who was non-caucasian and as not a bad
> guy.......
Caucasian, what's that? A white American?
There was a black guy in Fear, Itself. Don't know what happened
to him. Disappeared in the ghost house?
--
Peter Kleiweg | P e t r o n o m i c o n |
e-mail: invalid -> nl | http://www.let.rug.nl/~kleiweg |
Guardian of Spike's Innocence, and his Dislike of Puppies
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
He's regained his sense of whimsy.
-- Giles, Passion
Mattia Valente
>
> Jonathan Black wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 14 May 2000, george van hal wrote:
> >
> > > didn't have any regs from enschede, what a mess it is over there.
> > > Also hope nobody thought tonights Buffy was cancelled with all the
> > > extra news programming..... So anyways, where are all you
> > > guys?....it's so empty in here (ere...ere....ere....ere...)
> >
> > I'm still here :-) ... desparately trying to keep up the pace. For
> > the record, I still haven't come close to reading all the posts on
> > `Wild at Heart', and by the time I checked into the group tonight it
> > was already crawling with posts on `The Initiative' (Mattia Valente,
> > Mattia Valente, Mattia Valente, Mattia Valente, Mattia Valente,
> > Mattia Valente, Mattia Valente, Mattia Valente, and a couple of
> > other people I can't remember ;-)).
>
> Yeah, really weird.....
> I didn't see *any* posts beside mine and those from "zwaaneveld"
> yesterday, but this morning they're all here and apareantly they we're
> all posted waaaaay before I checked the last time last night. Don't know
> what was going on there, hope it doesn't happen again......
News servers are fun, huh?
EBMOD!!!!!!!!!! ;-)
> Oz in wolf mode was after her. But the only reason I can think of, is
> that the initiative was talking in code there. As in gorilla like wild
> dog = werewolf. Wasn't a very clear scene though.....
Other point: Wlash is a scientist, not one of the Demon Hunters herself
(from what we've seen..) doesn't get herself involved in the fighting or
capture of any creatures of the night, I would think, so the fear would
be a normal reaction (and a healthy one, I might add..)
> > Think I'll leave it at that for now; you guys have already done most
> > of the main comments on this episode. I liked it. Say, 7 out of 10?
>
> Agree ;-)
AARGHHH!!!!!!!!
Mattia
See? Short Post!
Mattia Valente
Jonathan Black wrote:
>
> On Sun, 14 May 2000, george van hal wrote:
>
> > George - who's wondering where all the regulars are.....hope we
> > didn't have any regs from enschede, what a mess it is over there.
> > Also hope nobody thought tonights Buffy was cancelled with all the
> > extra news programming..... So anyways, where are all you
> > guys?....it's so empty in here (ere...ere....ere....ere...)
>
> I'm still here :-) ... desparately trying to keep up the pace. For
> the record, I still haven't come close to reading all the posts on
> `Wild at Heart', and by the time I checked into the group tonight it
> was already crawling with posts on `The Initiative' (Mattia Valente,
> Mattia Valente, Mattia Valente, Mattia Valente, Mattia Valente,
> Mattia Valente, Mattia Valente, Mattia Valente, and a couple of
> other people I can't remember ;-)).
Hehe..I just replied to every post, I think, so technically you don't
even need to read the originals, they're all quoted in there :-p Of
course, you may want to reply to them as well..Not too boring I hope?
> Anyway, at least I've seen the
> ep on the day itself this time, so I still perhaps have a fighting
> chance of keeping up with this group (I've been reading every single
> post in n.k.s+f for a while now, but never really tried to add a
> second group to that level until now).
This one's easier in general. (For me, I type faster in English than I
do in Dutch ;-) Post wildness ensues from Sunday evening to wednesday or
thursday, in general, then it all cools off a little. Of course, if you
miss a weeks eps and leave it alone for a few days or a week, you could
get screwed over pretty easily (esp. if you miss an ep like WaH which
prompts a LOT of discussion ;-)
> First off, I HATE SPOILERS! Like many of you, I had heard enough
> shit to know that Riley was gonna turn out to be one of the
> "military guys". Don't think I'd ever really have come up with that
> myself, I'm usually pretty naive when it comes to predicting
> anything like that. Didn't know that Maggie was gonna be in on it as
> well though, so I still had that surprise. One point I'd like to
Agree. Reading UMTB casually kinda screws me over a lot, because people
there don't use spoiler space half the time and a lot of them post big
spoilers in the headers (grr....) I had read about both Riley and
Walsh...its that pesky tendency I have to speed read post ;-)
> make on this whole thing: last week's ep "Wild at Heart" had Maggie
> meeting the two werewolves one night and talking to Riley about it
> the next day. They sounded pretty much like Innocent Citizens [tm]
> there - "I was attacked by WILD DOGS!" - and initially, before Buffy
> got interested and butted in, they were only talking to eachother,
> so no reason to be faking anything, one would think. My point is,
> given that we now know they are both part of an organized demon
> hunting operation of sorts, and they seem to know all about vampires
> and everything, shouldn't they at least know what a werewolf is, and
> doesn't this make that conversation a little weird? Oh and please
> don't just say werewolves have nothing to do with vampires and
> demons, well OK you can if you like, but explain it!
Well, that did strike me as odd....as George said, maybe the Gorilla
reference was to cover that up. As for secrecy, I have a feeling they
take it a lot more seriously than the SG do (who discuss it in hallways
all the time) Probably have some secret code language and stuff too ;-)
Could also be they have never run into werewolves (there don't seem to
be too many of them, and they are only up and about 3 nights a
month...decreases chances of capture greatly. However, after all this
rationalization, its still odd and I haven't managed to convince myself.
Lets see if that clears up a little in the future.
> Think I'll leave it at that for now; you guys have already done most
> of the main comments on this episode. I liked it. Say, 7 out of 10?
Right on. Second place in my S4 Hitlist (post WaH)
Mattia
Wordy Poster Dude[tm]
Mattia Valente
>
> Mattia Valente wrote:
>
> > Hehe...a big long post. Looks like fun, I'll jump right in ;-)
>
> And you made it a *lot* longer.......not complaining though (still wonder why
> I couldn't see any other posts yesterday, when I actually had *time* to reply.
> Ah well.....) :-)
And I'll continue the trend...not make it too much longer though, I
promise! (Okay, so I lie..;-)
They obviously cuaght other kinds of demons as well. Maybe its only 17
vamps, or only 17 vamps that have been implanted successfully (without
being killed) 17 a month isn't too bad for a bunch of military fools
with no inborn skills and too much hi-tech stuff..Buffster slays more
per month would be my guess..
> Still weirdly large building, raises questions of how the hell they got it
> completed with it being beneeth a campus and all.
> Nobody explained about the construction noises ;-)? Ah well, that's me being
> picky again.......
Not really..I was wondering about that. Perchance built in already
existing natural cave od some sort? Gets rid of a large amount of the
noise...concurrently with some other building so the noise went
unnoticed? Who knows...
> > > Finally some new blood and a new arc, although this initiative *does*
> > > have the potential to get annoying and silly very very soon. But, I'm
> > > guessing we can trust Joss not to mess that up.
> >
> > I hope we can (hope he wasn't too busy with Angel ;-)
>
> Yeah, but I was wondering. Wasn't Angel supposed to be completly David
> Greenwalt's show?? That would mean our old friend Joss actually came up with
> the first 5 eps....worrying......
I don't know about it being purely DGs show..never heard much about it
till it aired (on purpose..) I don't mind having Joss involved in Angel
quite a bit, honestly, but S4 of Buffy is in many ways like S1: whole
new start, new place, some new people, etc. Needs attention (well,
needed, given that the finale airs in a few short weeks in the US..) to
make it good. We'll see how it all turned out.
> > I can see the
> > Initiative turning into a pretty good plotline (has a bit of an X-Filesy
> > feel to it, somehow..conspiracy, hit squads, etc...need to get more info
> > about them though...must know more.) or a bad plotline if its
> > overextended.
>
> Agree much. Let's hope it'll be of the good *crosses fingers*
Indeed.
> > I can see why a lot of fans might not like this; gets
> > further and further away from that High School feel of the first 3
> > seasons..Personally, I don't mind.
>
> Well, actually I *do* mind a bit. I mean that "highschool feel" got me
> addicted to the show, and I *really really* miss that a lot. It's like the old
> Buffy ended and we got a new Buffy in return (the show that is, not the
> characters). It's really very very bad we'll never get any new s1-3 type
> eps....but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy the new season. It's *still* Buffy,
> and I'm *still* insanely addicted, so I'm not complaining (a lot....). Hope
I read that Joss plans on S5 being more 'normal' with all the characters
more or less settled in, not like S4 where everything is in upheaval,
new. We shall see (well, next year april probably :-(...)
> some of these days joss'll find a way to do an episode in the old setting (one
> can dream...)
A flashback episode? Alternate universe (a friendly version of The Wish
;-) maybe not..but who knows?
> > Can't hold on to the past for that
> > long, no matter what we wish for. Deal. ;-)
>
> Trying to, trying to :-)
Is it working? Didn't think so (BTW, I'm in denial, I think...;-)
> > > Ok, so that was the initiative, on to the characters in this episode.
> >
> > YAY!
>
> ;-)
>
> > > First off: Xander and Giles.
> > > They're getting more and more redundant and bored. Seeing them sitting
> > > around at giles and even at Xander's place has me woried and makes me
> > > miss the library more and more. Give us a new base of operations, or
> > > better yet give us back the library!!
> >
> > Agree completely. We need some big scary evil that they are required to
> > tackle. Granted, this ep had Spike and nobody else as an evil enemy
> > (well, save for Harmony, more on that later..), and not too much at
> > that. No big evil here, just big confrontation with the Initiative, and
> > we STILL hardly have any details on them. And yet, we liked the ep.
> > Interesting, isn't it?
>
> It's allways interesting :-)
>
> > As for the Library: You DO recall that its been blown to smithereens,
> > right? ;-) Wonder if they've rebuilt the school
> > yet..
>
> *Yes* I rememeber. Don't know why giles can't still be a librarian there
> though (assuming they rebuilt) with the old gang coming in to see him over
> there, just like old times. Yeah, I know probably wouldn't work. But I *miss*
> the library...ah well ;-)
Well, I'm not sure they've managed to rebuild a whole school on such
short order. The place was practically levelled by the explosion. As for
Giles not working there; he has no reason to anymore. The gang aren't
allowed on campus as they are not, technically students anymore. Would
be odd to say the least. Doesn't make me miss it less though...
> > As for Harmony: Wasn't there some ridiculous rumor that she would
> > be the S4 villan? She can't even beat up Xander (that scene was
> > incredibly funny. EXTREMELY hilarious if you ask me. Whole ep was, in
> > fact!), so what chance has she got..
>
> I *know*. I was thinking about that rumour as I watched that scene (another
> hint of reading this group just too often ;-)). No *way* she's gonna be the
> main villian. I'm thinking this'll be the first season without a true main
> villain. They can just expand on the initiative and explore the new spike,
> without someone having a plot to destroy the world......
Hehe...that would screw up the whole concept! How SHOCKING!!! :-p
> > As for Xander, too bad his little
> > Solider Boy skills are all rusty now. That Giles outpreforms him in
> > dealing with firearms (OK, flare guns..) is a little scary ;-)
>
> Yeah, weird that though. His army skills were still in tact for GD2 and that
> was very long after the s2 halloween allready, so it seems weird he's now lost
> that.....
I wonder what REALLY happened this summer.....;-)
> > > Anyways, they should give them something to do fast, or they run the
> > > risk of becomming empty characters, which are only still around because
> > > of the part they played in the past. I really don't want to see that
> > > happen to these two. But the sit now, with the initiative as another
> > > possible help for Buffy in the future (with EBMFH taking over giles'
> > > place in the research and order department - Let's hope that doesn't
> > > ever happen) doesn't make me happy. GIVE THEM SOMETHING TO DO (excuse my
> > > shouting)
> >
> > Hehe, shouting excused..As for empty characters; danger is there,
> > although it seems (from non-specific spoiler, ie. no plot lines known to
> > me) that Xander at least will be around in a useful capacity in the
> > future. Hope that goes for Giles as well. Honestly, I don't see Walsh
> > (or the EBMOD, which is the correct acronym :-P)
>
> Yeah, yeah I know ;-)
Okay, just checking ;-)
> > being much help in
> > research as far as battling evil demons is concerned; she wants them
> > captured and used for some sort of experimentation. Doesn't seem to have
> > much of an occult reference library or the skill, knowledge and training
> > that Giles has had. Witness the fact that a mere 17 vamps have been
> > taken thus far, and the number of vamps that Buffy slays in a year, plus
> > the number of other demons and evils she faces..then count in detailed
> > watchers diaries and histories of past slayers. I would say the scooby
> > gang has more on the knowledge front, if not on the high tech
> > front..say, mebbe Willow could hack their system and find out more about
> > them (if they are stupid enough to be wired up..the Mayor was ;-)
> > Back to Giles and Xander: This ep, not much to do for anyone, really.
> > Buffy only beat up Riley (and got a pretty good beating herself) and
> > Spike failed at attacking Willow. Spike has the highest body count and
> > aggressive behaviour quota for this ep.
>
> Agree.......
Ooh, one word answer dude ;-)
> > > Secondly: Spike.
> > > I can't help it, but I liked Spike's inclusion in this ep. The new
> > > addition of the "can't bite anyone" thingy in his head can prove to be a
> > > nice adition, if handled correctly that is. The scene with Willow was
> >
> > Thats where my uncertainty kicks in; I don't know if I WANT a Spike who
> > doesn't go around and try biting people. Thats part of his charm:
> > Dangerous, yet funny witty and not really that harmful after
> > all..de-fanging Spike! How could they! OTOH, hand does offer a lot of
> > great oppurtunities for humor, and some more interesting and varied
> > plotlines than "Me Spike, Me Want Kill Slayer" and him actually being
> > able to do so. That would be too S2 in a snes (which is generally a GOOD
> > thing, mind you, but wouldn't fit in here anymore..)
>
> Yes, we saw in the last few eps that the writers couldn't find anything
> original for spike to do, so they used him as comic relief. This opens new
> possibilities.........
But not all of them good...
> > Also gives us more
> > of an excuse not to have Buffy slay him (finally) which would be
> > traumatic for the fans, I believe ;-)
>
> Oh, definatly. Know of at least one person in this group who would be shocked
> ;-)
Make that at least 2..Peter would be as well ;-)
Oh. thats who you were talking about, right? In that case, I would be as
well! ;-)
> > Anyway, where is Peter at? Ph,
> > never mind, just saw his posts....haven;t read em yet tho ;-)
> >
> > > And then: Willow.
> > > Still moaning about Oz. Just like expected and just like hoped. They'll
> > > not let her get over this so easy, just like it should be. Loved the way
> > > she pushed herself into the new "project" of getting Riley and Buffy
> > > together.
> >
> > She deals in a less annoying way than Buffy. Her pain was very visible
> > in that whole first speech thing with Riley; very, very nice dialogue
> > going on there. Honestly, at this point, the chemistry is more present
> > between Willow and Riley than it is between Buffy and Riley..lets hope
> > that changes some ;-)
>
> Indeed ;-) But than again, chemistry is allways present when willow's acting,
> soooo ;-)
Not always positive chemistry. Great 'icked out' chemistry with her vamp
self ;-)
> > > Oz.
> > > Even though he was not in this episode (sniff), we learned something
> > > important about our old friend. His name!!!! At first when willow said
> > > Daniel Osborne (it was that, right? Not a 100% sure and too lazy to
> > > search the transcript) I was like, who?? But than it hit me, she was
> > > talking about Oz!!! Fairly strange we've had to wait two seasons till we
> > > got to hear his full name, but another Buffy mystery is hereby solved
> > > :-)
> >
> > Yep. Daniel 'Oz' Osbourne..weird finally having a real name put to the
> > face there..
>
> Daniel, Daniel, Daniel.....nope still not working for me......
Never will, never will. Its too, well, NORMAL. The rest of the gang have
weirder names than he does (Rupert Giles..talk about stereotype names,
Buffy, Willow, Xander...not exactly run of the mill names.)
> > > Riley.
> > > I feared the worst, and he's still not even in the same leaque as the s1
> > > and s2 angel was, but me like Riley. Wonderfully funny lines and he
> > > seems to care for Buffy. He allready saved willow last ep and he punched
> > > Parker in this ep. Definatly something which makes you like a character
> > > ;-). Still we'll have to see a lot more of him before we'll be able to
> > > make a sound judgement. Promising though....
> >
> > Me like Riley too. For now. Not sure 'bout him and Buffy yet
> > (specifically, about Buffy liking him: not happening yet, will have to
> > grow and develop, lets hope the chemistry appears in the future.) He has
> > done lotsa good stuff (Punching Parker was great..happened just about
> > when I felt like doing so myself.) And yes, a lot of funny bits (opening
> > dialogue was great: "She's so hot, she's Buffy/That's her
> > name"...hehehe....
>
> Yep, very funny....and I agree ;-) (boring isn't it ;-))
A little...maybe I should let my evil twin start posting :-)
> > Staying with that: Wow! A non-caucasian cast
> > member..wonder if he lives longer than the school counselor or Mr. Trck
> > did ;-)
>
> Yeah, we've not seen that in a huge while. First person with more than one
> line who was non-caucasian and as not a bad guy.......
You don't know that yet! Forrest could turn out evil. You never can tell
in the Buffyverse...
> > Problem I have is that a couple of people have told me he gets more and
> > more annoying. Lets hope its just their intrpretationa and that I feel
> > differently. I like to like him right now. He's no Angel, never will be,
> > but he's not bad..
>
> Agree ;-)
*Sigh* BOORING!!! :-p
> > > Buffy.
> > > Not really much going on with Buffy this ep. She was her usual self....
> >
> > Yep. Ep wasn't really about her. Didn't do much. Riley, Willow, Spike,
> > Xander and Giles did more (well, 'cept for the last two maybe..)
> >
> > > All in all this ep was a nice kick off point for the true season story
> > > line to kick off. Not bad, not extremly good. It was enjoyable and it'll
> > > probably be one of those eps which are more fun when you've seen the
> > > rest of the season. All in all it seems that Buffy is regaining its
> > > quality. Last weeks ep is still the best this season by far, but the
> > > initiative was enjoyable and highly entertaining. Perhaps we'll still
> > > get that great season everyone was hoping for.....
> >
> > I'm not counting on a season that matches the greatness of S2/S3 for
> > now, but I think this looks really promising, with a good overall
> > season.
>
> Indeed. It's hard to be good and original after the brilliant s2 and very
> good s3.....lets just hope it isn't a downward tendacy.......
Somehow, I don't think that's too much of a risk. So far so good, with
rumors of several good eps coming out way (some literaly on little black
rectangular thingys...I'll mail ya ;-)
> > Granted, I'm actually pretty easy to please as far as Buffy eps
> > go (I LIKED Beer Bad <ducks>) but this looks good now..treat the
> > storyline well guys, its got potential.
>
> Indeed. You're very easy to please guy when it comes to Buffy eps....which is
> a good thing. Wish I had that a bit more, actually.....
Hehe..Its my 'Glass Half Full' mode. I see the good in things, I guess
;-) I can send you my exclusive kit for the price of those nice little
boxed sets you have..No go? You sure? Okay, you're loss...;-P
> > I would actually class this ep
> > as number 2 in my hitlist (after WaH..) for this season so far.
>
> Agreed......
AARGH!!!! :-)
> > Granted,
> > not much competition yet. Also one of the funniest eps in there (without
> > being a purely comical ep like Beer Bad <ducks again> ;-)
>
> Throws all sorts of stuff at mattia's head........
Mattia gets up to taunt him, but George manages to nail him with a nerf
footbaal anyway...
> > There, thats all for now, I'll pretend to go study for exams now..
>
> *lol*. Don't just pretend.......I know internet and going out with friends
> waaaay to much messed up my studies last year (granted I *hated* chemistry
> after a few weeks), but still.....ok I'll stop being awkward weird advice guy
> right now ;-)
Hehe..I have another 2 full weeks and a bit, and I usually start 3 days
before the exam (worked up to now..) but I'll start today. Honest!
Mattia
Thinking of more valid excuses to go procrastinate..Oh! Thats it! I must
go watch movies! And Buffy repeats! Oh, wait, I said valid....DAMN ;-)
Mattia Valente
>
> george van hal skriver...
>
> > Mattia Valente wrote:
>
> > > was only number 17.
>
> > They could start recounting each month for all we know, and 17
> > a month would definatly not be a bad ratio......
>
> was assigned to. No idea how often and how soon these cells are
> reused.
IIRC they did say subject 17, impying he was the 17th cought or possibly
successflly tagged or something. Would not be very efficient to re-use
the same number. As I said in other post, could also be that they bad a
lot more other types of demons..
> > > Staying with that: Wow! A non-caucasian cast member..wonder
> > > if he lives longer than the school counselor or Mr. Trck did
> > > ;-)
> >
> > Yeah, we've not seen that in a huge while. First person with
> > more than one line who was non-caucasian and as not a bad
> > guy.......
>
> Caucasian, what's that? A white American?
Just white. American has nothing to do with it. Originally I believe it
refers to the people of tha Caucasus, in the Urals or someting, ex-USSR
somewhere, but now it just means white, AFAIK. I'll go look it up
somewhere...
Mr. Trick comments on it in S3 with the line: "..I mean, admittedly,
it's not a haven for the brothers, you know, strictly the Caucasian
Persuasion here in the Dale. But, you know, you just gotta stand up and
salute their death rate..."
> There was a black guy in Fear, Itself. Don't know what happened
> to him. Disappeared in the ghost house?
Probably died (or not..) Point is, very few non-whites with lines and
re-appearances.
Mattia
Zwaaneveld
Mattia Valente <mae.v...@std.vu.nl> schreef in berichtnieuws
391F12DF...@std.vu.nl...
> > > Secondly: Spike.
> > > I can't help it, but I liked Spike's inclusion in this ep. The new
> > > addition of the "can't bite anyone" thingy in his head can prove to be
a
> > > nice adition, if handled correctly that is. The scene with Willow was
> > > very funny and reminded me of the scene in "Lover's Walk", although
> > > this was a little more of the funny.....it raised some questions about
> > > Sexual feelings and biting a victem though, but not getting into
> > > that..;-)
> >
> > It was really obvious, too much for my taste... (the whole "can't
perform
> > thing")
>
> Worked for me.
When i realized what they were doing is like: Oooh NOOOOOO!!! this sucks!!
but then it became funny =]
>
> > But after it started they handled it well, funny:
> > "we can try again in half an hour... or.." SMACK!
>
> That sudden slow realization there. Brilliant ;-)
Loved it!
>
> > > And then: Willow.
> > > Still moaning about Oz. Just like expected and just like hoped.
They'll
> > > not let her get over this so easy, just like it should be. Loved the
way
> > > she pushed herself into the new "project" of getting Riley and Buffy
> > > together.
> >
> > She likes cheese??
>
> Hehe..that was funny. Funnier because Riley actually used it. D'OH! What
> a klutz....funny klutz though.
"cheese?"
Funny that he thought Willow set him up:
" " okay, forgot how it went, but it was about Riley being worried that
Willow told Buffy that HE liked cheese.
>
> > Good thing if your dutch, right ;-}
>
> Or french, but theirs smells and tastes nasty <ducks>
Brie is fine, but DON'T EVER come near something like Goat/Sheep cheese.
YUCK!!
(puke!!)
>
> > > Oz.
> > > Even though he was not in this episode (sniff), we learned something
> > > important about our old friend. His name!!!! At first when willow said
> > > Daniel Osborne (it was that, right? Not a 100% sure and too lazy to
> > > search the transcript) I was like, who?? But than it hit me, she was
> > > talking about Oz!!! Fairly strange we've had to wait two seasons till
we
> > > got to hear his full name, but another Buffy mystery is hereby solved
> > > :-)
> >
> > I only got it when they said so....
> > Daniel Osborne.... Daniel Osborne....
> > sounds kinda strange.... dunno why
>
> Because its a name in 2 parts, instead of 2 letters, and sounds much too
> serious for Oz? Just guessing....:-)
Doesn't seem to fit Oz.
His drivers license should just say: Oz. No last (or first) name...
>
> > > Riley.
> > > I feared the worst, and he's still not even in the same leaque as the
s1
> > > and s2 angel was, but me like Riley. Wonderfully funny lines and he
> > > seems to care for Buffy. He allready saved willow last ep and he
punched
> > > Parker in this ep. Definatly something which makes you like a
character
> > > ;-). Still we'll have to see a lot more of him before we'll be able to
> > > make a sound judgement. Promising though....
> >
> > He also has some of Angel's character traits (sp?)(dutch: karakter
trekken)
> > with the being nervous thing...
>
> Yeah, and big. Except he's alive, not so mysterious (as a persona..he
> has his hidden side, just he hides it better.) Less intriguing and
> charismatic than Angel was though. 'Course Angel, we know well, and
> Riley we've barely met..
Less charismatic? i think that's because he was totally nervous...
He said he was "good at this" (i.e. chatting up girls)
>
> > This whole initiative could become "bad action movie" like, if we're not
> > careful...
>
> Agree. Have to be careful. Some 'Bad Action Movie' bits can be fun for
> comedy's sake. It also has the whole conspiracy/X-Files thing going on
> there..
Yeah. i thought that too, during the commercial break...
>
> > Parker sucks (hate him), LOVED the punch!! (needed a real punch, after
beer
> > bad)
>
> The Beer Bad head whacking was worse for him. Got knocked out twice.
> Those punches were funny, this one he really, REALLY deserved! Made me
> like Riley s'more (that and saving Willow in the last ep..)
>
Plus he was embarrased about getting punched.
> > > Buffy.
> > > Not really much going on with Buffy this ep. She was her usual
self....
> > >
> > > All in all this ep was a nice kick off point for the true season story
> > > line to kick off. Not bad, not extremly good. It was enjoyable and
it'll
> > > probably be one of those eps which are more fun when you've seen the
> > > rest of the season. All in all it seems that Buffy is regaining its
> > > quality. Last weeks ep is still the best this season by far, but the
> > > initiative was enjoyable and highly entertaining. Perhaps we'll still
> > > get that great season everyone was hoping for.....
> >
> > Fear not!! Hope is still there!
>
> You a spoiler slut too? Or are you just being optimistic?
Hey!! No name-calling...
I was being optimistic!!!
<whispering>: Slut!
Zwaaneveld
>
>
> Zwaaneveld wrote:
>
> > Ha! I posted first!! =]
>
Actually, i just saw Saskia beat me to it!
Dang!!
> > > Secondly: Spike.
> > > I can't help it, but I liked Spike's inclusion in this ep. The new
> > > addition of the "can't bite anyone" thingy in his head can prove to be
a
> > > nice adition, if handled correctly that is. The scene with Willow was
> > > very funny and reminded me of the scene in "Lover's Walk", although
> > > this was a little more of the funny.....it raised some questions about
> > > Sexual feelings and biting a victem though, but not getting into
> > > that..;-)
> >
> > It was really obvious, too much for my taste... (the whole "can't
perform
> > thing")
> > But after it started they handled it well, funny:
> > "we can try again in half an hour... or.." SMACK!
>
> Yeah, that was fairly funny. A felt a bit weird and out of character
though,
> but I can't really put my finger on it. Perhaps it's just me. A rewatch'll
have
> to prove that :-)
It was kinda weird... she should have just ran away after realizing he
couldn't do anything.
Also funny how she got insecure about herself, and then Spike comforting
her...
(or should we call him Prisoner 17) =]
>
> > > And then: Willow.
> > > Still moaning about Oz. Just like expected and just like hoped.
They'll
> > > not let her get over this so easy, just like it should be. Loved the
way
> > > she pushed herself into the new "project" of getting Riley and Buffy
> > > together.
> >
> > She likes cheese??
> > Good thing if your dutch, right ;-}
>
> Well, perhaps :-)
"Hey, how YOU doing (ie. Joey from Friends style). Want some Edammer-cheese
(wink wink)"
>
> > Oz.
> >
> > I only got it when they said so....
> > Daniel Osborne.... Daniel Osborne....
> > sounds kinda strange.... dunno why
>
> Yes, never pictured Oz as a Daniel. Just doesn't have the same ring to
> it......
Exactly...
what kind of name should he have though (other than Just Oz)
>
> > He also has some of Angel's character traits (sp?)(dutch: karakter
trekken)
> > with the being nervous thing...
>
> Ok, perhaps. But I don't think we ever saw Angel being that nervous. Also,
> Riley completly lacks the trademark angel brooding skills.....
during Angel he was this nervous...
don't remember which ep, was still with Doyle...
with him asking Doyle and Cordelia to go out a group while he didn't want
to...
or something like that....
>
> > This whole initiative could become "bad action movie" like, if we're not
> > careful...
> > Parker sucks (hate him), LOVED the punch!! (needed a real punch, after
beer
> > bad)
>
> Agree :-)
>
> See Ya,
> George - who's wondering where all the regulars are.....hope we didn't
have any
> regs from enschede, what a mess it is over there. Also hope nobody thought
> tonights Buffy was cancelled with all the extra news programming.....
> So anyways, where are all you guys?....it's so empty in here
> (ere...ere....ere....ere...)
Yeah... got me worried a bit...
My sister was in Enschede at the time it happend. (i could here that blast
from where i live (almelo))
Gave me a scare...
Everything is fine thought =]
Jonathan Black
[Jonathan's been snipping and, believe it or not, this post now only
contains some very vague spoilers up the end of S3.]
Aw, f... No chance of it being a litte earlier than that? Not even
January or something? I mean, with Ally McBeal, I heard Net5 has
gotten pretty damn close to the US air schedule, to the point of
getting episodes beamed over by satellite instead of shipped over on
tape, or not getting them in on time at all and having to show
reruns. I think I read an email statement from them on this subject
in nl.media.tv or whatever, saying that for the new season (i.e.
starting this autumn) they plan to maintain at least a six week lag
on the US to avoid unexpected cancellations like that. Like six
weeks is a lot! I'd be more than over the moon if they did they same
for Buffy.
Anyway, assuming they continue uninterrupted over this summer (not
completely out of the question as in the BBC's case), my
calculations indicate the season 4 finale airing on Sunday, August
27th. So a break of some length is definately in order as at that
point the new season won't even be set to start in the US for
another month or two. I'd be happy enough if they filled it with
some nice reruns. There's still a lot I have to see of S1 and
S2 (yay!).
As far as Angel is concered we'll be in for an even longer break.
After tonight we'll be only 9 weeks away from the season finale,
putting it on Monday July 17th, about three months before S2 starts
in the US. Again, I'd like to see some reruns, as I've yet to see
epsiodes 1, 2, 3 and 6 and I'm not happy with my recordings of some
others.
[Sunnydale High School]
>
> Well, I'm not sure they've managed to rebuild a whole school on
> such short order. The place was practically levelled by the
> explosion. As for Giles not working there; he has no reason to
> anymore. The gang aren't allowed on campus as they are not,
> technically students anymore. Would be odd to say the least.
> Doesn't make me miss it less though...
Haven't we seen various non-students walk around the school pretty
easily in the past? Faith wasn't a student, was she? And there are
countless other examples I think, Angel, etc.
--
J o N a T H a N
Polishing his scissors after some major snippage ;-)
Mattia Valente
>
> [Jonathan's been snipping and, believe it or not, this post now only
> contains some very vague spoilers up the end of S3.]
>
> >
> > characters more or less settled in, not like S4 where everything
> > is in upheaval, new. We shall see (well, next year april probably
> > :-(...)
>
> January or something? I mean, with Ally McBeal, I heard Net5 has
> gotten pretty damn close to the US air schedule, to the point of
> getting episodes beamed over by satellite instead of shipped over on
> tape, or not getting them in on time at all and having to show
> reruns. I think I read an email statement from them on this subject
> in nl.media.tv or whatever, saying that for the new season (i.e.
> starting this autumn) they plan to maintain at least a six week lag
> on the US to avoid unexpected cancellations like that. Like six
> weeks is a lot! I'd be more than over the moon if they did they same
> for Buffy.
Honestly, I ave no clue at all what they plan to do. Maybe repeat the
whole show again on weekdays? ST:TNG will run out eventually ;-)
Hmmm...maybe time to email our nice friend Vanessa Peereboom at Net5
(who is usually quick with replies..) and ask for some real info. I sure
wouldn't mind if they go straight into S5 (well, some break will be
there, methinks..) I say they try to do what Sky is doing in Britain,
starting in Jan 2001 (or so I have been told..) For me, the more new
Buffy and the faster its here the better (one a week is better than 5
though, unless its repeats, since that doesn't give you the time to
fully appreciate the eps or discuss them properly ;-)
> Anyway, assuming they continue uninterrupted over this summer (not
> completely out of the question as in the BBC's case), my
> calculations indicate the season 4 finale airing on Sunday, August
> 27th. So a break of some length is definately in order as at that
> point the new season won't even be set to start in the US for
> another month or two. I'd be happy enough if they filled it with
> some nice reruns. There's still a lot I have to see of S1 and
> S2 (yay!).
Phew. August 27th. I will have to be placing a buttload of trust in my
VCR since I'll be gone for spans of several weeks at a time...And I'll
probably have to settle for LP tapes too...dammit. Other issue: Sports
coverage (Wimbledon..): When is that exactly? Dates? Not too far off,
methinks..hope they keep things going nicely. I'd guess they'll keep
airing mostly normal-like (had that whole weird discussion last year
about yes/no zomerstop for the national channels, blah blah blah....)
Then yes, a break (and I hope repeats :-). May not start all the way
back with S1 though (not enough time if they do what we want them to do
;-) although I wouldn't mind if they did..
> As far as Angel is concered we'll be in for an even longer break.
> After tonight we'll be only 9 weeks away from the season finale,
> putting it on Monday July 17th, about three months before S2 starts
> in the US. Again, I'd like to see some reruns, as I've yet to see
> epsiodes 1, 2, 3 and 6 and I'm not happy with my recordings of some
> others.
Yeah. Angel. And F8x. They will be showing repeats, no doubt (do it with
all their other shows incessantly..wondering why they don't air Angel
twice a week like they do Dawsons Creek or Nash Bridges...) but for how
long? Took them quite a while to start showing new Charmed eps, IIRC.
Maybe I'll go harrass the Fox network soon as well ;-)
> [Sunnydale High School]
> >
> > Well, I'm not sure they've managed to rebuild a whole school on
> > such short order. The place was practically levelled by the
> > explosion. As for Giles not working there; he has no reason to
> > anymore. The gang aren't allowed on campus as they are not,
> > technically students anymore. Would be odd to say the least.
> > Doesn't make me miss it less though...
>
> Haven't we seen various non-students walk around the school pretty
> easily in the past? Faith wasn't a student, was she? And there are
> countless other examples I think, Angel, etc.
Some, yes. Angel is hardly ever there during school hours, nd Faith can
fake being a student. Having a group in the library consiting of exactly
0 high school students and one teacher is a little suspicious to say the
very least. Gotta have some sort of believable excuse for being there
all the time. Still, doubt the school is back up in its former glory as
of yet. ;-)
Mattia
Peter Kleiweg
> Honestly, I ave no clue at all what they plan to do. Maybe repeat the
> whole show again on weekdays? ST:TNG will run out eventually ;-)
> Hmmm...maybe time to email our nice friend Vanessa Peereboom at Net5
> (who is usually quick with replies..) and ask for some real
> info.
Why don't you ask her if they could come up with some other
good stuff during the break. Like Lexx or something.
--
Peter Kleiweg | P e t r o n o m i c o n |
e-mail: invalid -> nl | http://www.let.rug.nl/~kleiweg |
Guardian of Spike's Innocence, and his Dislike of Puppies
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Cordelia: Did I hit you?
Xander: Yes, everyone hit me.
Cordelia: Good. Well, I don't mean `good' because I hit you, but I
didn't wanna be left out.
-- Bad Eggs
Mattia Valente
>
> Mattia Valente skriver...
>
> > Honestly, I ave no clue at all what they plan to do. Maybe repeat the
> > whole show again on weekdays? ST:TNG will run out eventually ;-)
> > Hmmm...maybe time to email our nice friend Vanessa Peereboom at Net5
> > (who is usually quick with replies..) and ask for some real
> > info.
>
> Why don't you ask her if they could come up with some other
> good stuff during the break. Like Lexx or something.
Thats an interesting thought..Heard quite some about it, never seen any
eps. Did you download some or something? Whats it like?
Mattia
Peter Kleiweg
> Peter Kleiweg wrote:
> > Why don't you ask her if they could come up with some other
> > good stuff during the break. Like Lexx or something.
>
> Thats an interesting thought..Heard quite some about it, never
> seen any eps. Did you download some or something? Whats it
> like?
All I keep hearing that it's extremely original and weird.
Apparently some low-budget Canadian/German SF show.
--
Peter Kleiweg | P e t r o n o m i c o n |
e-mail: invalid -> nl | http://www.let.rug.nl/~kleiweg |
Guardian of Spike's Innocence, and his Dislike of Puppies
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
We didn't see any donkey demons.
-- Cordelia, Lonely Hearts
P@rick
> Hmmm...maybe time to email our nice friend Vanessa Peereboom at Net5
> (who is usually quick with replies..) and ask for some real info.
What's the adress? I'm gonna make her an offer she can't refuse.
Bye, Don Patrick
P@rick
> Spoilers for the initiative (Buffy s4, ep7)
<SNIP>
> First off: Xander and Giles.
> They're getting more and more redundant and bored.
<SNIP>
And will somebody do something about Xander's GODAWFUL HAIRCUT!?!
> Secondly: Spike.
> I can't help it, but I liked Spike's inclusion in this ep. The new
> addition of the "can't bite anyone" thingy in his head can prove to be a
> nice adition, if handled correctly that is. The scene with Willow was
> very funny and reminded me of the scene in "Lover's Walk", although
> this was a little more of the funny.....it raised some questions about
> Sexual feelings and biting a victem though, but not getting into
> that..;-)
Very great scene! Willow is too good for her own good. Spike's reference:
"Remember last year, you had on that... Fuzzy pink number with the lilac
underneath",
I think he referred to Lover's Walk, but I don't have the tapes to back that
up.
> And then: Willow.
> Still moaning about Oz. Just like expected and just like hoped. They'll
> not let her get over this so easy, just like it should be. Loved the way
> she pushed herself into the new "project" of getting Riley and Buffy
> together.
Ah, this is where I can write down my Willow praises. She was excellent!
Very good acting from Aly. In the scene with Riley she handled the
depressed-but-willing-to-help-Riley thing really well. And later on at the
party when she instructs Riley and concludes with "And remember, if you hurt
her, I will beat you to death with a shovel. A vague disclaimer is nobody's
friend. Have fun". Followed by a friendly encouraging smile. Oh, and anyone
notice how NET5 managed to translate the disclaimer sentence all wrong? As
they did with the "Need a lockdown on grid 6" by Graham.
> Riley.
> I feared the worst, and he's still not even in the same leaque as the s1
> and s2 angel was, but me like Riley. Wonderfully funny lines and he
> seems to care for Buffy. He allready saved willow last ep and he punched
> Parker in this ep. Definatly something which makes you like a character
> ;-). Still we'll have to see a lot more of him before we'll be able to
> make a sound judgement. Promising though....
For now I still like Riley. Decking Parker is a big plus and 'extra bonus
points for using the word courting' (as Oz would say...*snif*)
And I'll add some personal observations here. Most things have already been
said by others, but I think I missed:
I *loved* it when Buffy stood up for Willow against Walsh. Sadly, the EBMOD
wasn't very impressed. But right now, I'm not sure what *does* impress her.
Where did Spike leave the blood in his spotless white cell?
Why did Buffy have such a hard time fighting Riley. She beats vampires in
less time. Maybe she was being cautious, not to hurt him too much.
Well, that about covers it. Only 15 minutes before Angel starts, so I have
to get ready. Talk to you all later.
Bye, Patrick
--
Keeper of the Willowism, "And I'm eating this banana. Lunchtime be damned!"
Protector of Willow and Oz waking up together
Keeper of the Wily Willow Charms
Peter Kleiweg
> Well, that about covers it. Only 15 minutes before Angel
> starts, so I have to get ready. Talk to you all later.
What!? You post during Farscape?
--
Peter Kleiweg | P e t r o n o m i c o n |
e-mail: invalid -> nl | http://www.let.rug.nl/~kleiweg |
Guardian of Spike's Innocence, and his Dislike of Puppies
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
You know, I'm a little rusty when it comes to killing humans. It
could take a while.
-- Angel, What's My Line? 1
Mattia Valente
>
> P@rick skriver...
>
> > Well, that about covers it. Only 15 minutes before Angel
> > starts, so I have to get ready. Talk to you all later.
>
> What!? You post during Farscape?
Maybe he watches the Sunday repeat? (I know I do...;-)
Mattia
P@rick
> P@rick skriver...
>
> > Well, that about covers it. Only 15 minutes before Angel
> > starts, so I have to get ready. Talk to you all later.
>
> What!? You post during Farscape?
Hell, if Windows can Multitask, so can I!
Not that I watch Farscape. The blue woman with no hair scared me away ;o)
Bye, Patrick
Mattia Valente
>
> Peter Kleiweg:
> > P@rick skriver...
> >
> > > Well, that about covers it. Only 15 minutes before Angel
> > > starts, so I have to get ready. Talk to you all later.
> >
> > What!? You post during Farscape?
>
> Hell, if Windows can Multitask, so can I!
Windows? Multitask? HAH!!! (well, not very well...I crash it from time
to time, and its because my system is underpowered ;-)
> Not that I watch Farscape. The blue woman with no hair scared me away ;o)
You are making a mistake my friend. Go back on your dark and evil ways,
turn towards BBC and watch more SciFi!
;-)
Mattia
Peter Kleiweg
> Peter Kleiweg wrote:
> > What!? You post during Farscape?
>
> Maybe he watches the Sunday repeat? (I know I do...;-)
But will the repeat be uncensored. I don't think so, as it is on
an even earlier time. Had a really annoying snip, tonight's
episode.
--
Peter Kleiweg | P e t r o n o m i c o n |
e-mail: invalid -> nl | http://www.let.rug.nl/~kleiweg |
Guardian of Spike's Innocence, and his Dislike of Puppies
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Crichton: D'Argo, Aeryn and Rygel have disappeared. What happened? Did
we hit something?
Pilot: Still unknown. Quantify "disappeared."
-- Through the Looking Glass
Peter Kleiweg
> Peter Kleiweg:
> > What!? You post during Farscape?
>
> Hell, if Windows can Multitask, so can I!
So you can't, not really?
> Not that I watch Farscape. The blue woman with no hair scared
> me away ;o)
Then you're missing out on the best SF series on the moment.
(How is Lexx?) It has the best special effects, the greatest and
most original stories, a great cast, with not just human actors,
but puppets too, that are as convincing and endearing as any
human actor. And, most of all, it has the most lively drama and
sparkling character interaction seen in any SF show. A real
feast. And it just gets better with every episode.
--
Peter Kleiweg | P e t r o n o m i c o n |
e-mail: invalid -> nl | http://www.let.rug.nl/~kleiweg |
Guardian of Spike's Innocence, and his Dislike of Puppies
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Not much goes on in a one Starbucks town like Sunnydale.
-- Xander, Welcome to the Hellmouth
Mattia Valente
>
> P@rick skriver...
>
> > Peter Kleiweg:
>
> > > What!? You post during Farscape?
> >
> > Hell, if Windows can Multitask, so can I!
>
> So you can't, not really?
Hehehe...
> > Not that I watch Farscape. The blue woman with no hair scared
> > me away ;o)
Proves it; he can't :-)
> Then you're missing out on the best SF series on the moment.
> (How is Lexx?) It has the best special effects, the greatest and
> most original stories, a great cast, with not just human actors,
> but puppets too, that are as convincing and endearing as any
> human actor. And, most of all, it has the most lively drama and
> sparkling character interaction seen in any SF show. A real
> feast. And it just gets better with every episode.
Agree to the extent that I've seen the show. I've missed an awful lot of
eps though (pre-VCR days, gone when it was airing..) Lucky for me its
avaliable on DVD..well, lucky when I actually get money and buy a PC DVD
system ;-) (now why can't they get Buffy released to DVD that fast ;-)
Mattia
wheez50
P@rick <P.J.Mee...@students.fss.VampWillow.uu.nl> schreef in
berichtnieuws 8fpf1s$phb$2...@news.surfnet.nl...
in...@net5.nl should do it btw (a little late, i know...)
Wheez50
Mattia Valente
Conditions' and noticed something nobody mentioned before..
Jonathan Black wrote:
> the next day. They sounded pretty much like Innocent Citizens [tm]
> there - "I was attacked by WILD DOGS!" - and initially, before Buffy
> got interested and butted in, they were only talking to eachother,
> so no reason to be faking anything, one would think. My point is,
> given that we now know they are both part of an organized demon
> hunting operation of sorts, and they seem to know all about vampires
> and everything, shouldn't they at least know what a werewolf is, and
> doesn't this make that conversation a little weird? Oh and please
> don't just say werewolves have nothing to do with vampires and
> demons, well OK you can if you like, but explain it!
OK, this may be a little far fetched (in the sense that it could very
well be totally coincidental) but here goes: The statement about 'Wild
Dogs' is odd (though maybe some sort of hint, code, whatever) especially
when you consider the follwing: In 'Living Conditions', Oz is off to
find Buffy (keep an eye on her whilst on Patrol because Willow can't..)
and we get our first glimpse of Veruca, followed by the pretty obvious
'I'm a Werewolf Too' stare. Next bit we see Initiative goons (at this
point known only as the Mysterious Paramilitary Vamp Hunters) skulking
in the bushes, seemingly following Veruca and co. Now, this could be a)
Purely coincidental, although I'm not too sure (More later.) or b) They
are tracking her becuase they know/suspects something. Reason I don't
think its pure chance is that they (Initiative goons) are heading
towards a building, and that wouldn't make much sense if they are
tracking vamps and the like, heading straight for a brightly lit area
with more poeple instead of patrolling areas where they are more likely
to find vamps. Could be very wrong though. Looked to me as if they were
follwing Veruca and her little posse. Thoughts?
On a completely separate note, still Buffy/Angel realted but still;
Notice that 3 of the (ex)regulars are artisically inclined (Cordy in Go
Fish, Angel in 'Somnambulist' and again in 'She'...maybe he studied with
some of the french masters :-p and Giles in 'The Initiative')? Also,
just noticed Giles is a lefty (at which point a lot of you probably say
DUH!! ;-)
Anyway, thats that..
Peter Kleiweg
> A little late and all, only responding cuz I rewatched 'Living
> Conditions' and noticed something nobody mentioned before..
> Spoilers for the initiative (Buffy s4, ep7)
[About werewolves and the Initiative]
> Thoughts?
No.
> On a completely separate note, still Buffy/Angel realted but still;
> Notice that 3 of the (ex)regulars are artisically inclined (Cordy in Go
> Fish, Angel in 'Somnambulist' and again in 'She'...maybe he studied with
> some of the french masters :-p and Giles in 'The Initiative')?
I don't remenber that Go Fish thing. Angel showed his talents for
the first time in Passion. I thought it very out-of-character at
the time.
--
Peter Kleiweg | P e t r o n o m i c o n |
e-mail: invalid -> nl | http://www.let.rug.nl/~kleiweg |
Guardian of Spike's Innocence, and his Dislike of Puppies
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
You know, raiding an Englishman's fridge is like dating a nun. You're
never gonna get the good stuff.
-- Whistler, Becoming 2
Mattia Valente
Really? Oh right, Veruca, touchy subject <ducks becuase a) its a touchy
subject and b) it might not be funny enough :-p>
> > On a completely separate note, still Buffy/Angel realted but still;
> > Notice that 3 of the (ex)regulars are artisically inclined (Cordy in Go
> > Fish, Angel in 'Somnambulist' and again in 'She'...maybe he studied with
> > some of the french masters :-p and Giles in 'The Initiative')?
>
> I don't remenber that Go Fish thing. Angel showed his talents for
> the first time in Passion. I thought it very out-of-character at
> the time.
Right, Passion! (Why did I forget that one? Its the obvious one...) Go
Fish has Xander describing the fish person to Cordy who is try to draw
it, and is getting really annoyed with him. Was a little odd for Angel
to go all artsy, but only because we had never seen it before and it
doesn't seem to be a very demon thing to do, now does it? ;-)
Mattia
wheez50
About angel, I wouldn't know what to do in 100+ years of goodness too, he
was there btw, so he remembered from his own (un)life. I'd even say he's
intelligent. (okokok)
wheez50
Jonathan Black
> A little late and all, only responding cuz I rewatched 'Living
> Conditions' and noticed something nobody mentioned before..
Oh goody, I love late replies :-)
> Jonathan Black wrote:
> >
> > On Sun, 14 May 2000, george van hal wrote:
> >
> <SNIP>
>
> OK, this may be a little far fetched (in the sense that it could
> very well be totally coincidental) but here goes: The statement
> about 'Wild Dogs' is odd (though maybe some sort of hint, code,
> whatever) especially when you consider the follwing: In 'Living
> Conditions', Oz is off to find Buffy (keep an eye on her whilst on
> Patrol because Willow can't..) and we get our first glimpse of
> Veruca, followed by the pretty obvious 'I'm a Werewolf Too' stare.
> Next bit we see Initiative goons (at this point known only as the
> Mysterious Paramilitary Vamp Hunters) skulking in the bushes,
> seemingly following Veruca and co. Now, this could be a) Purely
> coincidental, although I'm not too sure (More later.) or b) They
> are tracking her becuase they know/suspects something. Reason I
> don't think its pure chance is that they (Initiative goons) are
> heading towards a building, and that wouldn't make much sense if
> they are tracking vamps and the like, heading straight for a
> brightly lit area with more poeple instead of patrolling areas
> where they are more likely to find vamps. Could be very wrong
> though. Looked to me as if they were follwing Veruca and her
> little posse. Thoughts?
Well, not so much "thoughts" as that I just think you make a very
interesting observation there, Mattia. It sounds pretty convincing.
I must rewatch all the relevant bits again myself sometime (what the
heck, might as well run the whole of S4 from the top, oops don't
really have time for that), but the way you're talking, it sounds
like the whole thing makes perfect sense, provided one looks at it
from the right perspective. Must be your positive attitude,
glass-half-full, etc. thing at work again ;-)
--
J o N a T H a N
"Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we
cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."
--Obi-Wan Kenobi
Return of the Jedi
Mattia Valente
Hehe..who really has TIME for rewatches? I just opt not to watch the
crap thats on TV in the evenings in my 'relax' time and watch a Buffy
repeat instead ;-) And yeah, I guess its the optimism thing kicking
in..I guess I could argue the opposite end, but I'll leave that up to
other people..
Mattia
ReplyMeister[tm]
Optimist Dude[tm] (YAY! Gave myself another title!! ;-)