Angel 3.11 Birthday (spoilers)
Saskia
WARNING
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Oh Yes! Yes!! Yes!! Give it to me baby!!!
<ahem>
Sorry, I'm okay now, really. Wow, this was some episode, I loved every
single second of it. *This* is exactly how I want the show to be all the
time, *this* is what I like. TPTB, mystical stuff, Cordy's visions finally
seriously addressed, this is all good. Oh and Yay! Skip!
When it started I was worried it was gonna be another babyshow (Ugh!!) even
though the POA didn't really predict this, otherwise something sappy with
Cordelia, but I never would have guessed. I have to say I was just a little
bit surprised that she took the 'rich and succesful actress' life when Skip
(oh btw yay Skip!) offered her the choice, but of course who wouldn't? It's
hardly a choice, either you die or you get rich and famous. Duh :) So it
made sense and in the end, she was drawn to the visions and Angel anyway.
Cool. Much better this way. And TPTB saw it too and let her have them.
For a price... Cordy is now part demon?!! A levitation demon or something?
WTF?! This is excellent stuff :-)
I really needed this, I wasn't liking S3 that much yet. I'm *so* glad we
didn't have to look at boring Holtz or boring babies this week...
So, when's the next one? ;)
--
Saskia (happy happy happy)
Saskia
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Some stuff writer Mere Smith said about the ep on the Bronze:
- this eppy ran a little long, so we had to cut some stuff for time. this
includes a scene from "Cordy!" and a longer decision-making process pre-"so
demonize me already". fyi.
- that was the inimitably lovely and talented Ms. Marti Noxon on vocals for
the "Cordy!" theme song, as well as Supreme Angel Poobah himself, Mr. David
"Greenie" Greenwalt. them two've got some pipes, no?
- you will never know what's in the box. [1]
Saskia
[1] darn, I so love prezzies, especially small ones :)
Baggers
Buffy and Angel this season, so what do I need to see to catch up?
Baggers
Mattia Valente
>
> Where would you say that this is a spoiler? I have only seen the first few
> Buffy and Angel this season, so what do I need to see to catch up?
Every single episode through season 3 episode 11?
Sky just showed S3 episode 1 yester...er, the day before yesterday,
FWIW.
Mattia
--
"My beagle went swimming today and now he's typing on my keyboard with
his ample nose. Oh, and he's the bestest handsomeest beagle EVER."
--Tim Minear, Salon.com, May 2001
Saskia
> Where would you say that this is a spoiler? I have only seen the first few
> Buffy and Angel this season, so what do I need to see to catch up?
Everything really. I hope you did all that snipping with your eyes closed!
;-)
--
Saskia (who would wish that some more people would watch that episode
already cos she wants them to be happy like her)
Baggers
news:MPG.16b356786...@news.cis.dfn.de...
>
> Everything really. I hope you did all that snipping with your eyes closed!
> ;-)
Snipping down with closed eyes and now slightly painful fingers (sharp
scissors)
Baggers
deathwalker
angel asks for help? Although during an earlier episode some badguy chopped
them up with a scythe.
"Baggers" <bag...@dobbers.f9.co.uk> wrote in message
news:a2c1m6$3lm$1...@news.ox.ac.uk...
Saskia
> okay who are TP and TB. Is it something to do with this strange pair that
> angel asks for help? Although during an earlier episode some badguy chopped
> them up with a scythe.
1. you are asking about spoilers that Baggers had just snipped because he
hasn't seen that ep yet. Kindly reply under the spoiler space next time.
2. would you please type *below* the text that you respond to? Makes it
easier to read. Thanks.
Now, to answer your question (cos I'm gonna talk about "Birthday" again), we
first need
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TPTB are The Powers That Be. No-one knows exactly who they are or what they
are but we do know that they control pretty much everything. They have given
Angel his soul and Doyle the visions (that he gave to Cordy).
That weird couple were messengers or something, I don't recall exactly what
they were but TPTB can't be killed off that easily.
They are the ones that Angel went to to plee for Cordy's life and the ones
who sent Skip to Cordy to, erm, hmm, why *did* they send Skip to her I now
wonder. To test her, to see if she's worthy enough to keep the vision maybe.
--
Saskia
deathwalker
was spoiling. Haven't seen 3 myself yet. This is the only group who don't
like me posting a reply at the beginning. Usually saves everyone wading
through ever increasing crap that gets repeated over and over.
Saskia
Hey :)
> On Fri, 18 Jan 2002 19:41:54 +0100, Saskia <sas...@nksf.nl> wrote:
>
> >
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> >Oh Yes! Yes!! Yes!! Give it to me baby!!!
>
> Oh totally agreed - but maybe less of the baby .. it's annoying :)
Oh yeah, sorry, don't mention the b*by... (ick). With any luck Cordy has
changed into a baby-eating demon.
> Totally agreed - in the file I'm saving umta five-star poll results in
> I've marked all the episodes I've seen for the first-time viewing and
> I instantly gave this a 5 .. before shifting it down to 4.75 for now.
Interesting. Why did you already take away 0.25 points? To save room for
even better episodes? ;)
> It seemed strange that the PTB were so keen to save one life, when
> they could (or should?) have for seen that "the champion" would suffer
> so much from gaining the visions.
Yes they work in mysterious ways. There's not a whole lot that we know about
them yet. Wouldn't mind learning more about them, would be a *whole* lot
more interesting than babies and Holtzes :-/
--
Saskia
Cordy: "The Powers That Be pops me out of my body and sent me
to a mall?"
Skip : "Actually, this is more the construct of a mall. You
know, like in The Matrix."
Cordy: "You've seen The Matrix?"
Skip : "Oh, I love that flick. When Trinity's all, "Dodge this!"
and the agent just crumbles to . . . (pauses) and I'm not
really instilling any awe anymore, am I?"
Mattia Valente
>
> Cool info ahead :
>
> > WARNING
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OK, first impression: WTF?!?!?!?!?! Followed by a 'whoa'. For ostensibly
non-sweeps stuff this is heavy. And I like. I like muchly. More later,
in own inane rambling RATT type gizmo. Tomorrow, like. Tired now. Sleep
soon.
> Some stuff writer Mere Smith said about the ep on the Bronze:
>
> - this eppy ran a little long, so we had to cut some stuff for time. this
> includes a scene from "Cordy!" and a longer decision-making process pre-"so
> demonize me already". fyi.
Oooh....I'm looking forward to the shooting scrpit on this one..
> - that was the inimitably lovely and talented Ms. Marti Noxon on vocals for
> the "Cordy!" theme song, as well as Supreme Angel Poobah himself, Mr. David
> "Greenie" Greenwalt. them two've got some pipes, no?
Hehehe....cool..
> - you will never know what's in the box. [1]
Mere is EVIL. I like it :-)
While I'm at it, a Tim Minear posting (not Bronze..):
"Agree, Kathy. I really liked the ep. And the Gladiator joke was MINE
MINE MINE!!!!! Riffing on Mere's "Matrix" gag."
Heh. Tim Rules. As does Mere.
Mattia Valente
>
> deathwalker said:
>
> > okay who are TP and TB. Is it something to do with this strange pair that
> > angel asks for help? Although during an earlier episode some badguy chopped
> > them up with a scythe.
>
> 1. you are asking about spoilers that Baggers had just snipped because he
> hasn't seen that ep yet. Kindly reply under the spoiler space next time.
Erm, Sas? This isn't spoilerific material. This is a S1 question. But
good point in general, and this thread's about a S3 eppie.
> 2. would you please type *below* the text that you respond to? Makes it
> easier to read. Thanks.
Yes, quite. This is always true.
> Now, to answer your question (cos I'm gonna talk about "Birthday" again), we
> first need
>
> s
> o
> m
> e
>
> s
> p
> o
> i
> l
> e
> r
>
> s
> p
> a
> c
> e
>
> !
> !
> !
>
> TPTB are The Powers That Be. No-one knows exactly who they are or what they
> are but we do know that they control pretty much everything. They have given
> Angel his soul and Doyle the visions (that he gave to Cordy).
Yeah. They control only to a certain degree, though; they're like gods,
weild the powers over life and death, but not over fate itself,
apparently. Not over everything. They're kinda nifty, kinda confusing,
and very much in the shadows.
> That weird couple were messengers or something, I don't recall exactly what
> they were but TPTB can't be killed off that easily.
They were the Orcales (and I thought I heard our glitter twins as the
some of the voices in this ep, but I'm totally not sure..), they
communicated with the Powers, but weren't the powers themselves.
> They are the ones that Angel went to to plee for Cordy's life and the ones
> who sent Skip to Cordy to, erm, hmm, why *did* they send Skip to her I now
> wonder. To test her, to see if she's worthy enough to keep the vision maybe.
Perhaps. They weild, as they said, the power over life and death. And
some form of control of reality. But they're not in the business of
determining all aspects fate directly; each and every person has a
conduit to the powers, apparently, some inner instinct that tells them
what their purpose in life is. Why is Skip there? Because something went
wrong. Cordy got the powers, she wasn't supposed to. Apparently, they
can't just get rid of them like *poof* (or don't want to; that remains
to be seen, I guess..Head, spinning, thinking, not clear, blah.) Skip's
Cordelia's guide. He's trying to lead her along a path that will bring
her a 'normal' mortal life, without the complications and trappings of a
vision-suffering almost dead person (ye GODS but that scared me
shitless..)
I don't think it's a test of worth, a test of 'is she good enough to
keep the visions', not really. It looks more like they're trying to help
her out, make her life normal again, because she does richly deserve it
after all she's been through. The thing is, that little inner voice,
that something, that doesn't let her be at peace with herself as an
actress. She wants more. Does she want the visions per se? Mwah. She
wants them because she sees what they do to others.
Mattia Valente
> >
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> >!
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> >Oh Yes! Yes!! Yes!! Give it to me baby!!!
>
To quote Tim Minear (slightly out of context...OK, very out of context,
but it's still a direct quote):
"Waaaa. Must. Kill. Baby."
> >Sorry, I'm okay now, really. Wow, this was some episode, I loved every
> >single second of it. *This* is exactly how I want the show to be all the
> >time, *this* is what I like. TPTB, mystical stuff, Cordy's visions finally
> >seriously addressed, this is all good. Oh and Yay! Skip!
>
> Totally agreed - in the file I'm saving umta five-star poll results in
> I've marked all the episodes I've seen for the first-time viewing and
> I instantly gave this a 5 .. before shifting it down to 4.75 for now.
Heh...I dunno. It wasn't a perfect episode, not completely. But it's
very, very good. It's head to head with 'Lullabye' for now. Very
different style of episode, but boy, did Mere Smith deliver big time on
this one. Her best work to date ('Untouched' coming in second..) and
it's a corker of an episode. As for marks, I suck at giving marks. And I
think I've never given a 5, not even to 'Reprise'.
> I need to see it again, but I really liked it on a first viewing and
> it managed to touch upon, probably, the major AI issues of this
> season.
Yes. It's finally delivereing (and how!) on the promise made last season
re: Cordy's visions. Anyone who thought they were being sleighted away,
well, here's the counterevidence. And what disturbing evidence it was, I
might add. High stakes, drama, alternate realities, funny (nay,
hilarious) demons, and very, very little Baby action...
> >(oh btw yay Skip!)
>
> Oh yeah! He's "toughened" up a bit since "That Vision Thing" and for a
> while - with his heavy insistence upon Cordy dropping the past/visions
> for fame that there had to be some kind of sinister twist to it.
Mwah, toughened? He's got the same funny attitude, bit of an oddball,
but, uhm, is this a promotion? Demotion? He used to be a guard in some
fortress hell dimension, now he's a guide to one of TPTB's instruments
(by mistake, but instrument and tool nonetheless..)
> It seemed strange that the PTB were so keen to save one life, when
> they could (or should?) have for seen that "the champion" would suffer
> so much from gaining the visions.
I'm not sure they could've foreseen that Angel would end up with the
visions. There's always that element of Free Will that's thrown into the
equation, makes people do the wacky. There was never any guarantee that
Angel could deal with it, or that he was meant to, really.
I'm not too clear on the PTB's motivations here; there may be an element
of testing Cordy, but somehow, it strikes me as a bit of strange 'test'.
If that's what it is. I chalk it back up to free will rearing it's head.
The visions were thrust upon her, against TPB's wishes, perhaps this was
a way of giving her some degree of free choice. Anyway, must let head
stop spinning first, I'm just posting, not thinking..
Mattia Valente
>
> Tafka said:
>
> Hey :)
Oh yeah, Hey!
> > On Fri, 18 Jan 2002 19:41:54 +0100, Saskia <sas...@nksf.nl> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >WARNING
> > >
> > >S
> > >P
> > >O
> > >I
> > >L
> > >E
> > >R
> > >S
> > >
> > >
> > >A
> > >H
> > >E
> > >A
> > >D
> > >
> > >!
> > >!
> > >!
> > >
> > >Oh Yes! Yes!! Yes!! Give it to me baby!!!
> >
> > Oh totally agreed - but maybe less of the baby .. it's annoying :)
>
> Oh yeah, sorry, don't mention the b*by... (ick). With any luck Cordy has
> changed into a baby-eating demon.
Sas? Down.
> > Totally agreed - in the file I'm saving umta five-star poll results in
> > I've marked all the episodes I've seen for the first-time viewing and
> > I instantly gave this a 5 .. before shifting it down to 4.75 for now.
>
> Interesting. Why did you already take away 0.25 points? To save room for
> even better episodes? ;)
Always. If you give an ep a perfect 5, there's no possible way of going
'up'. I need to let this one settle, then rewatch it, then think it
through s'more, and hope that them encoding people hurry the hell up and
get 3.12 up and about ASAP...
> > It seemed strange that the PTB were so keen to save one life, when
> > they could (or should?) have for seen that "the champion" would suffer
> > so much from gaining the visions.
>
> Yes they work in mysterious ways. There's not a whole lot that we know about
> them yet. Wouldn't mind learning more about them, would be a *whole* lot
> more interesting than babies and Holtzes :-/
Pffft....I like Holtz. Baby, not so much. Holtz? Yeah. As for learning
about TPTB, I don't really see a whole lot of that happening. Some, yes.
A nice meaty hunk of info wouldn't be bad, not at all, but by their very
nature, their mystery, they remain fascinating.
Mattia Valente
> episodes free - instead of being stifled by that Harrison man [joke
> :)] in umta.
Hehehe...you do realize he's posted here from time to time, right?
> >> On Fri, 18 Jan 2002 19:41:54 +0100, Saskia <sas...@nksf.nl> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >WARNING
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> >> >E
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> >> >
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> >> >H
> >> >E
> >> >A
> >> >D
> >> >
> >> >!
> >> >!
> >> >!
> >> >
> >> >Oh Yes! Yes!! Yes!! Give it to me baby!!!
> >>
> >> Oh totally agreed - but maybe less of the baby .. it's annoying :)
> >
> >Oh yeah, sorry, don't mention the b*by... (ick). With any luck Cordy has
> >changed into a baby-eating demon.
>
> I'm sure he'll die at some point. Has to. Although some of the
> quotes/rumours I've seen (by mistake, I read one and kept on
> reading...) don't give away a lot.
Bah. Well, Tim's quote about how it's gotta die probably doesn't really
hold much credibility in terms of real plot development. Although, this
being Tim, it very well might.
> >> Totally agreed - in the file I'm saving umta five-star poll results in
> >> I've marked all the episodes I've seen for the first-time viewing and
> >> I instantly gave this a 5 .. before shifting it down to 4.75 for now.
> >
> >Interesting. Why did you already take away 0.25 points? To save room for
> >even better episodes? ;)
>
> Well maybe :)
Like, duh.
> I haven't seen S1 for a while now and can't especially remember a lot
> of the episodes in real clarity - plus there are probably a couple of
> points I'm sure I might end up disliking when I rewatch it in a couple
> of days... .or perhaps not? :)
Perhaps not :-)
The thing is, some minor things can turn a perfect into a slightly less
than perfect score. And although I'm too 'whoa' to go nitpicking details
right now, there may very well be bits in there. Although I'm doubting
it. I'm not sure if it's in the same 'oomph' level of perfection that
'Reprise' is in, but, well, it damned good.
> >Yes they work in mysterious ways. There's not a whole lot that we know about
> >them yet. Wouldn't mind learning more about them, would be a *whole* lot
> >more interesting than babies and Holtzes :-/
>
> I don't mind Holtz really - if he /moved/ on and did something
> productive then he'd be better. At the moment he's just a side-story -
> it will be interesting though... if he's the first real Angel "big
> bad" then how will it resolve? Obviously AI will have big issues with
> /killing/ a human and unless Sanjeck (?!?! - the demon who 'froze'
> him) turns on him I've no idea what to expect.
I'll take a stab: Angel tries to save Holtz's soul ('cause that's what
he DOES) and fails miserably. What this means, exactly, I have no clue.
> But we're only halfway - so yay! Plenty of time left.
Yeah. C'mon, Buffy, get into gear. Stupid 'Gone' stalling
behaviour.....*sigh*...Scott Murphy ep next week (with Grossman
directing again, same as this week), hopefully it'll be cool, and Joss
Whedon double bill (writing/directing) for the ep after that...this is
lookin' good.
Mattia Valente
>
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> Oh Yes! Yes!! Yes!! Give it to me baby!!!
Or possibly, give me everything *but* the baby!
> Sorry, I'm okay now, really. Wow, this was some episode, I loved every
> single second of it. *This* is exactly how I want the show to be all the
> time, *this* is what I like. TPTB, mystical stuff, Cordy's visions finally
> seriously addressed, this is all good. Oh and Yay! Skip!
Is it me, or is this the first ep since 'Heart Throb' that you actually
liked? And perhaps the first ep you really really like this season? Not
that I can really blame ya, Cordy rules, and she's finally getting the
real big screentime she deserves.
> When it started I was worried it was gonna be another babyshow (Ugh!!) even
> though the POA didn't really predict this, otherwise something sappy with
> Cordelia, but I never would have guessed.
Oh, c'mon, the baby was cute!
> I have to say I was just a little
> bit surprised that she took the 'rich and succesful actress' life when Skip
> (oh btw yay Skip!) offered her the choice, but of course who wouldn't? It's
> hardly a choice, either you die or you get rich and famous. Duh :)
It seemed a little more complex than that. She's self confident, has
this whole thing built up around her, she can take these visions, no
problems, she can help Angel. What does she hear? They're killing her.
Angel is mad. He thinks she's weak, can't take them, should never have
had them, is deluding herself (and then leaves before Angel's true
concern, his deep worry for her, becomes so very clear..) So, yeah. She
figures she'll choose life.
> So it
> made sense and in the end, she was drawn to the visions and Angel anyway.
> Cool. Much better this way. And TPTB saw it too and let her have them.
Erm, quite. She made the choice. And had to fight for it.
> For a price... Cordy is now part demon?!! A levitation demon or something?
> WTF?! This is excellent stuff :-)
This is some scary shit. I'm intuiged. Very intruiged. I was actually
thinking 'well, the only real solution to get rid of the problems and
keep her as vision girl would be to turn her into a demon or something'
when I was watching Heartthrob and That Vision Thing. But I dismissed
that with a 'nah..'
> I really needed this, I wasn't liking S3 that much yet. I'm *so* glad we
> didn't have to look at boring Holtz or boring babies this week...
>
> So, when's the next one? ;)
Monday. Like, uh, today :-)
Niall Harrison
> Tafka wrote:
>> On Sun, 20 Jan 2002 14:37:19 +0100, Saskia <sas...@nksf.nl> wrote:
>>
>> >Tafka said:
>> >
>> >Hey :)
>>
>> Yeah, I took up the advice of many to let my initial feelings about
>> episodes free - instead of being stifled by that Harrison man [joke
>> :)] in umta.
>
> Hehehe...you do realize he's posted here from time to time, right?
Boo!
Niall
--
So fill your heart with abandon
And drink in the golden air.
Zeppo
in the first place and the scooby gang in the second place a bit miffed? I
could be wrong but in what ep did the PTB restore Angels soul?
zeppo
Saskia
> Previously, on alt.buffy.europe - Mattia Valente wrote:
> > Tafka wrote:
> >> Yeah, I took up the advice of many to let my initial feelings about
> >> episodes free - instead of being stifled by that Harrison man [joke
> >> :)] in umta.
> >
> > Hehehe...you do realize he's posted here from time to time, right?
>
> Boo!
WAAAAAAA!!
Shees, sneaking up on people like that! how rude...
--
Saskia
Saskia
> Saskia wrote:
> >
> > WARNING
> >
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> > O
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> > E
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> >
> > !
> > !
> > !
> >
> > single second of it. *This* is exactly how I want the show to be all the
> > time, *this* is what I like. TPTB, mystical stuff, Cordy's visions finally
> > seriously addressed, this is all good. Oh and Yay! Skip!
>
> Is it me, or is this the first ep since 'Heart Throb' that you actually
> liked? And perhaps the first ep you really really like this season?
I guess it's true. This is the first one I'm raving about. I was almost
considering to give up on the show. But maybe I was expecting different
things, in hindsight it doesn't feel *too* bad... it's just Holtz who's
boring the shit out of me, W&H are getting unrealistically stupid, the baby
is annoying and even the Host is irritating me now. Hmpf. That doesn't leave
too much to go on does it? :-/
Think I'll watch the season again along with the umta'ers, see if I feel
different.
> > When it started I was worried it was gonna be another babyshow (Ugh!!) even
> > though the POA didn't really predict this, otherwise something sappy with
> > Cordelia, but I never would have guessed.
>
> Oh, c'mon, the baby was cute!
Yes, if it was on "Days of our Lives" or something. *Not* on Angel.
> > I have to say I was just a little
> > bit surprised that she took the 'rich and succesful actress' life when Skip
> > (oh btw yay Skip!) offered her the choice, but of course who wouldn't? It's
> > hardly a choice, either you die or you get rich and famous. Duh :)
>
> It seemed a little more complex than that. She's self confident, has
> this whole thing built up around her, she can take these visions, no
> problems, she can help Angel. What does she hear? They're killing her.
> Angel is mad. He thinks she's weak, can't take them, should never have
> had them, is deluding herself (and then leaves before Angel's true
> concern, his deep worry for her, becomes so very clear..) So, yeah. She
> figures she'll choose life.
Not sure... I had a feeling she had already made up her mind before Skip
took her to see Angel. Cordy may have changed, but I wouldn't have bought it
had she chosen to die rather than get rid of the visions and perhaps lose
Angel with them. In the end no-one is *that* selfless. Well, I'm not ;)
> > For a price... Cordy is now part demon?!! A levitation demon or something?
> > WTF?! This is excellent stuff :-)
>
> This is some scary shit.
:)
> I'm intuiged. Very intruiged. I was actually
> thinking 'well, the only real solution to get rid of the problems and
> keep her as vision girl would be to turn her into a demon or something'
> when I was watching Heartthrob and That Vision Thing. But I dismissed
> that with a 'nah..'
I woulddn't express those thought in umta if I were you... the thought
hadn't crossed my mind for a second but if someone had even mentioned the
possibility after TVT I might not have been so surprised as I was now.
> > So, when's the next one? ;)
>
> Monday. Like, uh, today :-)
Hurray?
--
Saskia
Baggers
It is even worse when he does it in real life...
Baggers
--
You never seem to wonder, how much you make me suffer, I speak it from the
inside
Niall Harrison
Hey, Mattia warned you I posted here.
Niall
--
Don't you know it's alright to be alone.
Niall Harrison
> Saskia <sas...@nksf.nl> wrote in message
> news:MPG.16b66f0ec...@news.cis.dfn.de...
>> Niall Harrison said:
>> > Previously, on alt.buffy.europe - Mattia Valente wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Hehehe...you do realize he's posted here from time to time, right?
>> >
>> > Boo!
>>
>> WAAAAAAA!!
>>
>> Shees, sneaking up on people like that! how rude...
>
> It is even worse when he does it in real life...
I've never done that to you.
Of course, now that I know it unnerves you, I will.
Niall
--
Dive straight in at the deep end
Making you feel like there's gonna be a war.
Mattia Valente
I did, didn't I? Although it's entirely possible she missed the memo.
Oh, and I've been gone for 2 days. Must tackle UMTA. Have all of
tomorrow to do it. Joy.