Angel: Five by Five (#1.18)
Mattia Valente
>
> Ok, I recently started phase 3 of my own delayed version of the 5x5
> Project[tm], watching Five by Five.
Ummm....recently?? Huh? Yikes. It's been, what, more than half a year?
(ok, maybe I'm overdoing it, but still..)
Why the big huge delay, if you don't mind my asking? Watching in Synch
with the BBC (little slow there as well..)?
> First of all, was it all worth the wait so far?
I'll say..is this seriously the FIRST time you've seen these tapes? I'm
just getting incredibly curious (mainly because I have little to no self
control, the 5x5 project[tm] is the longest I've ever managed to sit on
tapes. Figuratively speaking, that is..) I'm suddenly wondering if
people remember the 5x5 project. Some may not have been here long enough
to recall that far back. The 'website' is still up and running, anyway.
http://come.to/5x5
> Well, the main spoiler about this episode with respect to the
> preceding BtVS episodes is that Faith has woken up from her coma,
> which I think I didn't even know she was going to be *in* at the time
> I taped the episode.
You mean you didn't know Faith was going to wake up and appear in Buffy,
I presume..
> I would in deed have preferred to not know of
> Faith's recovery in advance, but unfortunately when the 5x5
> Project[tm] started the damage had already been done by the trailer
> after the previous episode.
Well, yes. That's one (tiny) advantage to having Net5 air the shows in
the future (and oh I so wish we had a confirmed date..): no spoilery
trailers. Although I have noticed a worrying trend with actual content
filled trailers for shows like Charmed...
> All in all, yes, I do think being in synch is worth it, especially
> considering I am now making sure to avoid the somewhat spoilery
> trailers altogether.
:o)
The ones on your tapes? Definately avoid them pesky and annoying
trailers. Them's not good (although George would probably disagree with
me..)
> It's also great to be watching new (well, new to *me* anyway) episodes
> of Angel in these Angel-devoid times. :-P
*sigh*
Lucky guy..have you at least watched the rest of Buffy's 4th season, or
not even that? (ok, I'll stop with the third degree now..)
> On to the episode itself. I have to admit, when I read P@rick's review
> of Who Are You? in which he was wondering if we would see the
> repercussions of Faith's experience in Buffy's body, I didn't give it
> much of a chance. Watching this episode, I saw scepticism justified.
> Faith's behaviour didn't seem to have changed at all from before the
> whole switching bodies episode, still venting her inner anger with
> little inhibition on whoever happens to be nearby.
> Imagine my surprise when Faith, after enjoying a nice round of
> torturing Wesley, breaks down in Angel's arms when he confronts her.
> So that was a nice surprise promising some interesting events for the
> next episode.
Indeed. She is, if possible, even more violent and vicious and self
destructive than before, which for me did, in a way, stem from her
ordeal with the body switching in the previous episode. Then, of course,
the breakdown at the end, which makes little to no sense without having
seen the Buffy eps. Without them, it's sudden; with them, context is
present and it's even logical (in a homicidal psychotic Slayer kind of
way..)
> Then there were the flashbacks to Angel's first days
> after he regained his soul. Their relevance eluded me at first, but in
> light of Faith's eventual breakdown I can see the parallell between
> her and the early Angel.
The only flashbacks that confused me for a longish time were the ones in
'The Prodigal'. My brain was a little slow processing, until someone
pointed out the title, and things began to click...
> They have both done some horrible deeds and
> both recently gained a new perspective on them, Angel when he gets a
> soul and Faith by her experience as the loved and respected Buffy.
That, and seeing what people think of her (Faith), honest unbiased
views, didn't help sanity much, I should think. Mainly the respect,
gratefullness, love and friendship, though. Definately. I should rewatch
that ep. Haven't seen it since my original 5x5 viewing.
> Of the flashbacks, I loved in particular the dramatic moment when the
> agonized Angel, curled up in a corner, wonders out loud why he can
> still remember all of his victims, despite their huge number.
I have got to rewatch...
> Watching this show again for the first time in months has reminded me
> that in its first season it has already become one of my favourite TV
> shows ever and definitely has the potential to reach the top of that
> list.
Ooooh...tough call, but Buffy's still my fave. Angel's a really close
second, though.
Mattia
ReplyMeister[tm]
Paul Verburg
Project[tm], watching Five by Five.
First of all, was it all worth the wait so far?
Well, the main spoiler about this episode with respect to the
preceding BtVS episodes is that Faith has woken up from her coma,
which I think I didn't even know she was going to be *in* at the time
I taped the episode. I would in deed have preferred to not know of
Faith's recovery in advance, but unfortunately when the 5x5
Project[tm] started the damage had already been done by the trailer
after the previous episode.
All in all, yes, I do think being in synch is worth it, especially
considering I am now making sure to avoid the somewhat spoilery
trailers altogether.
It's also great to be watching new (well, new to *me* anyway) episodes
of Angel in these Angel-devoid times. :-P
On to the episode itself. I have to admit, when I read P@rick's review
of Who Are You? in which he was wondering if we would see the
repercussions of Faith's experience in Buffy's body, I didn't give it
much of a chance. Watching this episode, I saw scepticism justified.
Faith's behaviour didn't seem to have changed at all from before the
whole switching bodies episode, still venting her inner anger with
little inhibition on whoever happens to be nearby.
Imagine my surprise when Faith, after enjoying a nice round of
torturing Wesley, breaks down in Angel's arms when he confronts her.
So that was a nice surprise promising some interesting events for the
next episode. Then there were the flashbacks to Angel's first days
after he regained his soul. Their relevance eluded me at first, but in
light of Faith's eventual breakdown I can see the parallell between
her and the early Angel. They have both done some horrible deeds and
both recently gained a new perspective on them, Angel when he gets a
soul and Faith by her experience as the loved and respected Buffy.
Of the flashbacks, I loved in particular the dramatic moment when the
agonized Angel, curled up in a corner, wonders out loud why he can
still remember all of his victims, despite their huge number.
Watching this show again for the first time in months has reminded me
that in its first season it has already become one of my favourite TV
shows ever and definitely has the potential to reach the top of that
list.
--
Paul
Paul Verburg
> Paul Verburg wrote:
> >
> > Ok, I recently started phase 3 of my own delayed version of the 5x5
> > Project[tm], watching Five by Five.
>
> Ummm....recently?? Huh? Yikes. It's been, what, more than half a year?
> (ok, maybe I'm overdoing it, but still..)
>
> Why the big huge delay, if you don't mind my asking? Watching in Synch
> with the BBC?
Yes, I was only watching the BBC airings of BtVS. I started watching
the series around the beginning of S3 on the Beeb and I didn't want to
watch NET5's S4 as well for reasons of 'spoilage'. That's why I
decided to prolong the 5x5 Project until the BBC showed the
corresponding BtVS episodes.
> (little slow there as well...)
Do you mean a little slow as in me having waited two weeks before I
watched the tape?
I watched the tape the weekend immediately after Where the Wild Things
Are showed two weeks ago. But as I'm not quite the WordyPoster and
also somewhat of a perfectionist it takes me a lot of time to write a
message with actual content to my own satisfaction. Also, my own
computer doesn't have a modem (and I don't have any money) so I use my
brother's computer to send and receive messages. That's why I haven't
had the time and opportunity to write the 'reviewlet' until yesterday.
Hmm, you probably just meant that the Beeb isn't putting much effort
into showing the BtVS episodes.
> > First of all, was it all worth the wait so far?
>
> I'll say..is this seriously the FIRST time you've seen these tapes? I'm
> just getting incredibly curious (mainly because I have little to no self
> control, the 5x5 project[tm] is the longest I've ever managed to sit on
> tapes. Figuratively speaking, that is..)
I happen to have a lot of self-control, maybe too much of it. I have
the tapes lying at eye level on a closet close to the door to my room.
Every time I walk in or out of my room I see them lying there, but
I've never even had the compulsion to put them into the VCR before the
time was right.
> > Well, the main spoiler about this episode with respect to the
> > preceding BtVS episodes is that Faith has woken up from her coma,
> > which I think I didn't even know she was going to be *in* at the time
> > I taped the episode.
>
> You mean you didn't know Faith was going to wake up and appear in Buffy,
> I presume..
No, I mean iirc the 5x5 Project started before the BBC aired
Graduation Day, so I didn't even know that Faith was going to be in a
coma in the first place.
<about the spoilery Angel trailers>
> Well, yes. That's one (tiny) advantage to having Net5 air the shows in
> the future (and oh I so wish we had a confirmed date..): no spoilery
> trailers. Although I have noticed a worrying trend with actual content
> filled trailers for shows like Charmed...
I've seen those too. I've never seen an entire episode of Charmed
itself though, so I wouldn't know about how revealing they are.
> > It's also great to be watching new (well, new to *me* anyway) episodes
> > of Angel in these Angel-devoid times. :-P
>
> *sigh*
>
> Lucky guy..have you at least watched the rest of Buffy's 4th season, or
> not even that? (ok, I'll stop with the third degree now..)
Only now do I realise I could have also taped those from NET 5 and
watched them whenever the BBC reached the first of those episodes.
That hadn't occured to me at the time.
<slaps his cheecks Home Alone style>
Well, it's too late for that now.
> > Imagine my surprise when Faith, after enjoying a nice round of
> > torturing Wesley, breaks down in Angel's arms when he confronts her.
> > So that was a nice surprise promising some interesting events for the
> > next episode.
>
> Indeed. She is, if possible, even more violent and vicious and self
> destructive than before, which for me did, in a way, stem from her
> ordeal with the body switching in the previous episode. Then, of course,
> the breakdown at the end, which makes little to no sense without having
> seen the Buffy eps. Without them, it's sudden; with them, context is
> present and it's even logical (in a homicidal psychotic Slayer kind of
> way..)
To be honest, I'm not quite sure what to think of it yet. She kept
saying "I'm bad, I'm bad, ..." as she showed throughout the episode,
but something in the way she said it makes me think she didn't like
being bad anymore.
Anyway, I think anything you're going to say about it from here on
will probably give away too much about the conclusion of this twist
than I'm willing to know at this point.
> > Then there were the flashbacks to Angel's first days
> > after he regained his soul. Their relevance eluded me at first, but in
> > light of Faith's eventual breakdown I can see the parallell between
> > her and the early Angel.
>
> The only flashbacks that confused me for a longish time were the ones in
> 'The Prodigal'. My brain was a little slow processing, until someone
> pointed out the title, and things began to click...
The Prodigal, that's the one with Kate's father? (Kate, that's her
name right? Haven't been able to see much of the early episodes yet).
> > They have both done some horrible deeds and
> > both recently gained a new perspective on them, Angel when he gets a
> > soul and Faith by her experience as the loved and respected Buffy.
>
> That, and seeing what people think of her (Faith), honest unbiased
> views, didn't help sanity much, I should think. Mainly the respect,
> gratefullness, love and friendship, though. Definately. I should rewatch
> that ep. Haven't seen it since my original 5x5 viewing.
>
> > Of the flashbacks, I loved in particular the dramatic moment when the
> > agonized Angel, curled up in a corner, wonders out loud why he can
> > still remember all of his victims, despite their huge number.
>
> I have got to rewatch...
I was thinking the same thing while writing the original message. As I
said, it's been two weeks already, with no opportunity to watch
another episode. Grmbl... Sports on TV is one thing, but robots doing
sports, that's just a complete waste of time.
> > Watching this show again for the first time in months has reminded me
> > that in its first season it has already become one of my favourite TV
> > shows ever and definitely has the potential to reach the top of that
> > list.
>
> Ooooh...tough call, but Buffy's still my fave. Angel's a really close
> second, though.
My preference for Angel may have something to do with the fact that
the ratio of Buffy S4 to non-S4 episodes ever seen by me is greater
than one. I haven't even seen anything of the first two seasons. (Now
don't go telling me that BtVS season 2 is the greatest season of
television ever and that "Passion" and "Becoming" are the best
episodes of television ever. I got that after the first sixty times I
heard it.)
--
Paul
Mattia Valente
> Mattia Valente wrote:
> > Paul Verburg wrote:
> > >
> > > Ok, I recently started phase 3 of my own delayed version of the 5x5
> > > Project[tm], watching Five by Five.
> >
> > Ummm....recently?? Huh? Yikes. It's been, what, more than half a year?
> > (ok, maybe I'm overdoing it, but still..)
> >
> > Why the big huge delay, if you don't mind my asking? Watching in Synch
> > with the BBC?
>
> Yes, I was only watching the BBC airings of BtVS. I started watching
> the series around the beginning of S3 on the Beeb and I didn't want to
> watch NET5's S4 as well for reasons of 'spoilage'. That's why I
> decided to prolong the 5x5 Project until the BBC showed the
> corresponding BtVS episodes.
Ahhh....a man of true character. It's still a little overwhelming for
me, given that I'm too weak willed (where sitting on Buffy tapes is
concerned, anyway) to actually even convieve pulling something like this
off ;o)
I would've taped Net5's airings, finished watching S3 on the beeb, and
then caught up in double time, videofest, and all that...maybe. Kinda
pointless, this type of speculation.
> > (little slow there as well...)
>
> Do you mean a little slow as in me having waited two weeks before I
> watched the tape?
Um, yes.
> I watched the tape the weekend immediately after Where the Wild Things
> Are showed two weeks ago.
Ah. OK then. Just wondering..
> But as I'm not quite the WordyPoster and
Heh. Haven't used that one in a while..
> also somewhat of a perfectionist it takes me a lot of time to write a
> message with actual content to my own satisfaction. Also, my own
That I can relate to. Why do you think I tend to Reply to things rather
than start new threads? That's P@rick's department, ThreadMaking[tm].
> computer doesn't have a modem (and I don't have any money) so I use my
> brother's computer to send and receive messages. That's why I haven't
> had the time and opportunity to write the 'reviewlet' until yesterday.
Ah. OK. Things become clearer once more. Makes sense now :o)
> Hmm, you probably just meant that the Beeb isn't putting much effort
> into showing the BtVS episodes.
Well, no, I didn't, really, although they aren't. Or much effort into
any other US genre show. Well, at least not when they've got Techno
Games or Snooker to show instead ;o)
Other than the annoying tendency break up their scheduling for odd
events I like the Beeb.
> > > First of all, was it all worth the wait so far?
> >
> > I'll say..is this seriously the FIRST time you've seen these tapes? I'm
> > just getting incredibly curious (mainly because I have little to no self
> > control, the 5x5 project[tm] is the longest I've ever managed to sit on
> > tapes. Figuratively speaking, that is..)
>
> I happen to have a lot of self-control, maybe too much of it. I have
> the tapes lying at eye level on a closet close to the door to my room.
> Every time I walk in or out of my room I see them lying there, but
> I've never even had the compulsion to put them into the VCR before the
> time was right.
Well, to be fair to myself, I managed to hold out on watching the Angel
tapes. If, however, I have new eps I can watch I may have a slight
tendency to, well, overdo it a little (if such a thing is possible..;o)
> > > Well, the main spoiler about this episode with respect to the
> > > preceding BtVS episodes is that Faith has woken up from her coma,
> > > which I think I didn't even know she was going to be *in* at the time
> > > I taped the episode.
> >
> > You mean you didn't know Faith was going to wake up and appear in Buffy,
> > I presume..
>
> No, I mean iirc the 5x5 Project started before the BBC aired
> Graduation Day, so I didn't even know that Faith was going to be in a
> coma in the first place.
Oooh. Fun, that. (although George would disagree violently, I think..)
> <about the spoilery Angel trailers>
> > Well, yes. That's one (tiny) advantage to having Net5 air the shows in
> > the future (and oh I so wish we had a confirmed date..): no spoilery
> > trailers. Although I have noticed a worrying trend with actual content
> > filled trailers for shows like Charmed...
>
> I've seen those too. I've never seen an entire episode of Charmed
> itself though, so I wouldn't know about how revealing they are.
Not too revealing plotline wise, but quite revealing nonetheless. I
would prefer a generic type trailer thingy, although with Charmed, I
honestly don't care enough to, uh, care. They're far better than Fox's
old ones, which gave you a nice little voiceover description and a
number of very spoilery moments, and lets not even talk about the US
ones ;o)
> > > It's also great to be watching new (well, new to *me* anyway) episodes
> > > of Angel in these Angel-devoid times. :-P
> >
> > *sigh*
> >
> > Lucky guy..have you at least watched the rest of Buffy's 4th season, or
> > not even that? (ok, I'll stop with the third degree now..)
>
> Only now do I realise I could have also taped those from NET 5 and
> watched them whenever the BBC reached the first of those episodes.
...which is what I said above ;o)
> That hadn't occured to me at the time.
> <slaps his cheecks Home Alone style>
> Well, it's too late for that now.
Heh. Yup. Then again, you got the full beauty of widescreen, logoless,
uncut if you taped the late-night repeat, and full credits Buffy.
Granted, some dubios BBC editing here and there for no apparent reason
(lead ins and such) but hey..
<SNIP>
> Anyway, I think anything you're going to say about it from here on
> will probably give away too much about the conclusion of this twist
> than I'm willing to know at this point.
I'll avoid commenting since I don't think I can quite go about
explaining what I think of some of the stuff without getting 'Sactuary'
references (or inferences) in there.
> > > Then there were the flashbacks to Angel's first days
> > > after he regained his soul. Their relevance eluded me at first, but in
> > > light of Faith's eventual breakdown I can see the parallell between
> > > her and the early Angel.
> >
> > The only flashbacks that confused me for a longish time were the ones in
> > 'The Prodigal'. My brain was a little slow processing, until someone
> > pointed out the title, and things began to click...
>
> The Prodigal, that's the one with Kate's father? (Kate, that's her
> name right? Haven't been able to see much of the early episodes yet).
Yes, the one with Kate's father. And the lots of flashbacks :o)
> > > Of the flashbacks, I loved in particular the dramatic moment when the
> > > agonized Angel, curled up in a corner, wonders out loud why he can
> > > still remember all of his victims, despite their huge number.
> >
> > I have got to rewatch...
>
> I was thinking the same thing while writing the original message. As I
> said, it's been two weeks already, with no opportunity to watch
> another episode. Grmbl... Sports on TV is one thing, but robots doing
> sports, that's just a complete waste of time.
:o)
> > > Watching this show again for the first time in months has reminded me
> > > that in its first season it has already become one of my favourite TV
> > > shows ever and definitely has the potential to reach the top of that
> > > list.
> >
> > Ooooh...tough call, but Buffy's still my fave. Angel's a really close
> > second, though.
>
> My preference for Angel may have something to do with the fact that
> the ratio of Buffy S4 to non-S4 episodes ever seen by me is greater
> than one.
Well, ok, that could explain it. Buffy S4 didn't quite pack the same
punch as the previous (or following, I might add..) seasons did. Still
wasn't bad, but Angel S1 was really good.
> I haven't even seen anything of the first two seasons. (Now
> don't go telling me that BtVS season 2 is the greatest season of
> television ever and that "Passion" and "Becoming" are the best
> episodes of television ever. I got that after the first sixty times I
> heard it.)
OK, ok..to be fair, S3's excellent as well. Doesn't have the same kind
of single stellar ep feel, but it's got the big arc feel to make up for
it.
Mattia
ReplyMeister[tm]