Room with a view [spoilers]
george van hal
:-)
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Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes!
I admit that I was starting to get a bit woried, but this episode of
angel removed all my doubts. I *loved* it. It seems the show has finally
found the right ballance between drama, action and humor. It had some
great character moments, it was involving, it was funny, it was
everything I hoped it would be. Even though the story might not have
been very original, the way it was handled was perfect and it provided a
great development in the character of Cordy. She seems to be getting her
confidence back and the end of the ep proved it (and btw, the place
*was* great). I'm wondering if we'll see any more of the ghost. Anyways
there's probably a lot more to say, but I can't think of it atm. I'm
just waaaaay too happy that angel finally delivered the goods like
expected. I hope they can keep it up....
See Ya,
George
Andrea
george said:
Oh. Um.
>I admit that I was starting to get a bit woried, but this episode of
>angel removed all my doubts. I *loved* it. It seems the show has finally
>found the right ballance between drama, action and humor. It had some
>great character moments, it was involving, it was funny, it was
>everything I hoped it would be. Even though the story might not have
>been very original, the way it was handled was perfect and it provided a
>great development in the character of Cordy. She seems to be getting her
>confidence back and the end of the ep proved it (and btw, the place
>*was* great). I'm wondering if we'll see any more of the ghost. Anyways
>there's probably a lot more to say, but I can't think of it atm. I'm
>just waaaaay too happy that angel finally delivered the goods like
>expected. I hope they can keep it up....
Hehe. Okay, I liked it, but I felt like there was something missing. Dunno.
:(
<thinks hard>
Dunno. :((
Wow, am I eloquent or what? :)))
Seriously, I felt there were all sorts of inconsistencies and other small things that bothered me. Cordy was funny, but she seemed out of character to me. The monster wasn't scary, simply because it didn't scare Cordelia in the first place. The fight with the demon & co was close to boring. And although I liked seeing Kate again, her part in the ep seemed forced, as if the writers needed to make sure we'd remember Kate for future episodes. Also, Angel & Doyle came to visit in broad daylight, whcih I could have overlooked if Doyle hadn't closed the curtains. And where had the son's girlfriend gone? She wasn't there with Dennis, was she? And there were more things. Details that didn't feel right.
Believe it or not, I still *lik
ed* the ep. :)))
Andrea
Mr. Stonehouse
> Hehe. Okay, I liked it, but I felt like there was something missing. Dunno.
> :(
>
> <thinks hard>
>
> Dunno. :((
>
> Wow, am I eloquent or what? :)))
>
> Seriously, I felt there were all sorts of inconsistencies and other small things that bothered me.
Are you kiddin us? I agree with George this was an excellent episode.
The only other episode that i liked much was the first one. I really
hope this episodes is a standard for the rest of this seizon (sp?). Give
me more, more, more.
> Cordy was funny, but she seemed out of character to me. The monster wasn't scary, simply because it didn't scare Cordelia in the first place.
It was o so funny to see that Cordelia wasn't scared. Otherwise we would
have seen a standard spooky story. I agree that the monster wasn't scary
but that didn't bother me a for a minute. I found it a funny episode
instead of scary anyway. Like that scene with Angel where he says I'm
angel and you are? And when he tricked Doyle by saying that someone was
at the door for him. And the peanutbutter thing... Need i say more :-)
And about Charisma she had to play so many different emotions during
this episode that i seriously think she must have some acting abilities.
Like she really had to shorten her abilities in buffy because she wasn't
the main character. I am starting to like her and het character more
then i did when i saw her in buffy.
> Believe it or not, I still *lik
> ed* the ep. :)))
I really liked it. The only thing that i didn't like was the phonecall
during the broadcast. Another stupid company that called me and wanted
something to sell to me. I made it *very* clear it didn't liked that.
That should learn them not to disturb me during Angel.
Stonehouse, phonesellers are one of the demons in real live
Peter Kleiweg
> > Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes!
>
> Oh. Um.
I got 14 Buffy and Angel tapes, don't know where to put any more
of them, and it's getting too expensive. And Farscape was at a
later time-slot (and no more repeats), so I think, well, let's
just run the VCR, don't bother about commercials, etc. I watch
it later, and then use the tape for something else.
And then you get this.
Yes, this was the best episode of all. There was all sorts of
things wrong with it, Cordelia switching character too suddenly,
psychological inconsistent, Angel *not* eating (last ep he drank
coffee), the face in the wall something we have seen too often.
But, you know, it doesn't matter. This episode has bite, it was
over the top, like some Xena episode at moments, but it was CC
who made it work. Get wild, but do it convincingly. I loved this
episode.
And know I'm stuck with that tape with the commercials in it.
Why didn't anybody warn us?
> > [...] Even though the story might not have been very
> > original, the way it was handled was perfect and it provided
> > a great development in the character of Cordy. She seems to
> > be getting her confidence back and the end of the ep proved
> > it/
Well, I wouldn't call it great character development, it was too
much over the top.
She really makes all the others of the Buffy gang look like
children. (Perhaps that's what you get if you use a 30 year old
actress to play the roll of an 18 year old spoiled kid.)
> > (and btw, the place *was* great). I'm wondering if we'll see
> > any more of the ghost.
I nice touch, letting the other ghost live with her.
> Seriously, I felt there were all sorts of inconsistencies and
> other small things that bothered me. Cordy was funny, but she
> seemed out of character to me. The monster wasn't scary,
> simply because it didn't scare Cordelia in the first place.
You mean mommy dearest? She did her very best, but Cordelia was
too scared to be scared away.
> The fight with the demon & co was close to boring.
I liked it. It was very high action, more then the usual fight
scene, which fitted in the over-the-top storytelling. I liked
how the other daemon was looking, that collector. And he could
talk, something you don't see often once they put a rubber mask
on someone's face.
> And although I liked seeing Kate again, her part in the ep
> seemed forced, as if the writers needed to make sure we'd
> remember Kate for future episodes. Also, Angel & Doyle came to
> visit in broad daylight, whcih I could have overlooked if
> Doyle hadn't closed the curtains. And where had the son's
> girlfriend gone? She wasn't there with Dennis, was she? And
> there were more things. Details that didn't feel right.
I hope this episode really represents were the show is going
(contradicting myself about not taking Spike seriously). BtVS is
a show that takes itself very seriously. It has to be, all those
kids making a big thing out of life. We are older, like to take
things with a little more irony. So get wild with the show now
and again, make fun out of the actors, put in a little Hong Kong
Dragon Fighting, characters running all over the place. Do it
with passion, and it will still be emotionally gripping. It can
be done that way, shows like Xena and Hercules prove it can.
(I'm still mad with myself for taping over that musical Xena
episode.)
--
Peter Kleiweg | P e t r o n o m i c o n |
e-mail: invalid -> nl | http://www.let.rug.nl/~kleiweg |
Guardian of Spike's Innocence, and his Dislike of Puppies
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I'm from Sunnydale, you're not scaring me.
-- Cordelia, Rm w/a Vu
Mattia Valente
> I admit that I was starting to get a bit woried, but this episode of
> angel removed all my doubts. I *loved* it. It seems the show has finally
> found the right ballance between drama, action and humor. It had some
Hmm..not sure if its the perfect balance yet, but its getting better and
better. STILL missing a major story arc though..We gain a lot of insight
into the characters (some more Cordy background, to a large extent
placed there, I suspect, for the benefit of the non-Buffy viewing
audiences..Revealed a little more about her though)
> great character moments, it was involving, it was funny, it was
> everything I hoped it would be. Even though the story might not have
> been very original, the way it was handled was perfect and it provided a
> great development in the character of Cordy. She seems to be getting her
> confidence back and the end of the ep proved it (and btw, the place
> *was* great).
Correctamundo. It's nice to see a Cordy centered episode, with all the
necessary ingredients (especially the funny remarks: "I from Sunnydale,
you can't scare me!" or "I'm not some whiny little cry-buffy" "Stranger
things have happened. Oh wait, no they haven't" and the whole bit with
her popping at Angel's had me laughing out loud at times.)
We also got a little more info on Doyle, although I'm impatiently
waiting on the guy's history. I for one did not think Cordelia was out
of character at all (as was alluded to in another post) Her reactions to
the taunting were realistic, because she has been failing at being an
actress, she has little or no money (how the hell could she afford that
appartment, I wonder....suicide rate probably brought the rent down some
;-) and the words struck a nerve: they quite accurately described how
she felt (guilt over former behaviour, IMHO as a way of trying to
rationalize what was happening to her), and her situation. Particularly
good was the flip back to Cordy, the Bitch: Saw it coming, but well done
nonetheless. This is probably the most acting intesive episode CC has
ever done in either show (the only ones that contained smidgens of it
were in S3 after, well, if you've seen it you know, and I don't feel
like more spoiler space just in case...)
> I'm wondering if we'll see any more of the ghost. Anyways
> there's probably a lot more to say, but I can't think of it atm. I'm
> just waaaaay too happy that angel finally delivered the goods like
> expected. I hope they can keep it up....
The ghost thing is pretty funny. Maybe he'll sideline in the show (kinda
like Amy/Rat did in S3 in later eps...) It was pretty funny though.
Cordy has him under control, in any case. On the Danny subject: did that
mortared alive thing ring a bell anywhere? I THINK Its from an Edgar
Allan Poe Story, but I can't remeber which one (something like flask
of...could be completely wrong though...)
Overall, Angel is turning out to be a good solid show. Fave is still "In
the Dark" but this one is number two on my (as of yet very short)
list...Still waiting for that major plot arc though....Next week's Angel
looks a little odd. Could be good (more Kate, which is something..) but
could end up being silly...It promises to at least be funny, which I
can't particularly say for 'Lonely Hearts', which I think was the
weakest ep we have seen. I guess I'm an eternal sceptic, but chances are
I'll enjoy myself greatly nonetheless ;-)
Comments? Fire away...
Mattia
Mattia Valente
>
> Andrea wrote:
> >
> > Hi, it's me, reporting for comment duty. :)))
> >
> > george said:
> >
> > :(
> >
> > <thinks hard>
> >
> > Dunno. :((
> >
> > Wow, am I eloquent or what? :)))
> >
>
> The only other episode that i liked much was the first one. I really
> hope this episodes is a standard for the rest of this seizon (sp?). Give
> me more, more, more.
>
>
> have seen a standard spooky story. I agree that the monster wasn't scary
> but that didn't bother me a for a minute. I found it a funny episode
Cordy WAS scared, at least until her 'true nature' reared its head once
again...Come on, she stayed up all night. If that ain't fear, I don't
know what is..
> instead of scary anyway. Like that scene with Angel where he says I'm
> angel and you are? And when he tricked Doyle by saying that someone was
> at the door for him. And the peanutbutter thing... Need i say more :-)
Not really, no...;-)
Mattia
Mattia Valente
>
> Andrea skriver...
> >
> > Oh. Um.
>
> I got 14 Buffy and Angel tapes, don't know where to put any more
> of them, and it's getting too expensive. And Farscape was at a
> later time-slot (and no more repeats), so I think, well, let's
> just run the VCR, don't bother about commercials, etc. I watch
> it later, and then use the tape for something else.
No more wednesday repeats of Farscape? Oh well...I know the tape
problem: Got a VCR recently, already have 5 tapes (thats oh, about 4
weeks worth) af full and almost full tapes (Last few on Net5, BBC, and
now Angel...)
> And then you get this.
>
> Yes, this was the best episode of all. There was all sorts of
> things wrong with it, Cordelia switching character too suddenly,
> psychological inconsistent, Angel *not* eating (last ep he drank
> coffee), the face in the wall something we have seen too often.
> But, you know, it doesn't matter. This episode has bite, it was
The character switch was sudden, but not really too much so, IMHO. The
psychological incositency, as you call it, makes perfect sense to me.
She's been under a lot of pressure, and putting on a facade, a mask
showing the world that she was doing fine (heck, see the first episode,
or even some of season 3...) whilst inside she was having to deal with
all sorts of shit...A lot of things were building up to this, and the
ghost pushed her over the edge, but then screwed up, and reminded her of
her true self...Of course, a fair amount of that was pure dramatic
lisence, and fun to watch to boot. Predictable too, but, as you say, who
cares, so long as its well done...
As for Angel: We know he doesn't eat for fun (well, Blood...) Drinking
seems to be a different issue. I guess we go on the assumption that he
just likes to drink coffee (well, not Cordys, maybe its just a habit,
get the caffeine boosting the system..) We know he drinks alcohol
(Epsiode Lie to Me, I believe, where Buffy walks in, Angel drinking, and
says somthing like "You dirnk? I mean, non blood things..") He doesn't
eat regularly because he doesn't need it. And somehow, I just don't see
him eating peanutbutter any time soon..
> over the top, like some Xena episode at moments, but it was CC
> who made it work. Get wild, but do it convincingly. I loved this
> episode.
Amen to that brutha ;-)
> And know I'm stuck with that tape with the commercials in it.
> Why didn't anybody warn us?
Hehe...At least you have a choice. I have other commitments every Monday
night, so I'm stuck with programming the VCR (on a similar note, does
anyone know if Fox has Shoview numbers? PDC signals? My TV guide doesn't
list them, but that doesn't necessarily mean much...) with a nice little
margin for error...means 4 eps on a 4 hour tape, insted of the 5 and a
half hour free, or possibly 6 if you are lucky (perfect timing and those
extra few minutes at the end of a tape..) Main reason I like BBC..no
logos, no subtitles, no commercials, full credits (at least on friday
nights..)
> > > [...] Even though the story might not have been very
> > > original, the way it was handled was perfect and it provided
> > > a great development in the character of Cordy. She seems to
> > > be getting her confidence back and the end of the ep proved
> > > it/
>
> Well, I wouldn't call it great character development, it was too
> much over the top.
...which shows more facets. Of course, we have already established that
we disagree on the degree of over the topness. Only scene that was a
little annoying was that Cordy didn't react at all to Doyle or
Angel...I'll give you that as slightly exaggerated...not by much though,
IMHO.
> She really makes all the others of the Buffy gang look like
> children. (Perhaps that's what you get if you use a 30 year old
> actress to play the roll of an 18 year old spoiled kid.)
True. Noticed that in this ep more than in others, for some reason.
Never did look eighteen though (not that Buff ever looked 16, but hey.
Still better than Dawsons "We're all 15 year olds" Creek...;-)
> > > (and btw, the place *was* great). I'm wondering if we'll see
> > > any more of the ghost.
>
> I nice touch, letting the other ghost live with her.
Funny touch...hope it stays, personally.
> > Seriously, I felt there were all sorts of inconsistencies and
> > other small things that bothered me. Cordy was funny, but she
> > seemed out of character to me. The monster wasn't scary,
> > simply because it didn't scare Cordelia in the first place.
>
> You mean mommy dearest? She did her very best, but Cordelia was
> too scared to be scared away.
Yup. Scared of differnt things. Scared of the gohst, but more scared by
what the loss of the apartment would represent (boy, aren't we over
analyzing this a little...oh, right, thats what we a re here for ;-)
> > The fight with the demon & co was close to boring.
>
> I liked it. It was very high action, more then the usual fight
> scene, which fitted in the over-the-top storytelling. I liked
> how the other daemon was looking, that collector. And he could
> talk, something you don't see often once they put a rubber mask
> on someone's face.
And wearing normal clothes...Reminded me a little of the Zeppo, in the
sense that 2 separate battles were going on, an the more serious one is
put on the back burner,,,to a much, much lesser degree of course...
> > And although I liked seeing Kate again, her part in the ep
> > seemed forced, as if the writers needed to make sure we'd
> > remember Kate for future episodes. Also, Angel & Doyle came to
> > visit in broad daylight, whcih I could have overlooked if
> > Doyle hadn't closed the curtains. And where had the son's
> > girlfriend gone? She wasn't there with Dennis, was she? And
> > there were more things. Details that didn't feel right.
>
> I hope this episode really represents were the show is going
> (contradicting myself about not taking Spike seriously). BtVS is
> a show that takes itself very seriously. It has to be, all those
> kids making a big thing out of life. We are older, like to take
> things with a little more irony. So get wild with the show now
> and again, make fun out of the actors, put in a little Hong Kong
> Dragon Fighting, characters running all over the place. Do it
> with passion, and it will still be emotionally gripping. It can
> be done that way, shows like Xena and Hercules prove it can.
I hope we get a little more serious. I for one don't like Xena and
Hercules much because they are too silly. I like the blend of comedy and
ironic elements, but keeping it semi-serious (not too much so, lonely
hearts was an example of how not to do it for me...) Still waiting for a
story arc (said that about 20 times in various messages now, haven't I?)
There, more fuel for the fire....;-)
Mattia
Peter Kleiweg
> Hehe...At least you have a choice. I have other commitments
> every Monday night, so I'm stuck with programming the VCR (on
> a similar note, does anyone know if Fox has Shoview numbers?
> PDC signals?
No PDC signal. Only NL1/2/3, VRT1, Canvas/Ketnet, BBC1/2. And
that other kind of signal for ARD, ZDF and N3.
> I hope we get a little more serious. I for one don't like Xena
> and Hercules much because they are too silly. I like the blend
> of comedy and ironic elements, but keeping it semi-serious
> (not too much so, lonely hearts was an example of how not to
> do it for me...) Still waiting for a story arc (said that
> about 20 times in various messages now, haven't I?)
Xena and Hercules don't seem silly to me, because they are
convincingly over-the-top. The characters are very strong, so
they get away with it. And there still are dramatic story arcs
linking everything together. I think Xena and Hercules may look
more silly to an 18 year old.
--
Peter Kleiweg | P e t r o n o m i c o n |
e-mail: invalid -> nl | http://www.let.rug.nl/~kleiweg |
Guardian of Spike's Innocence, and his Dislike of Puppies
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
People will be attracted to my positive energy and help me
achieve my goals. Oh, yeah!
-- Cordelia, City of...
Peter Kleiweg
> I really liked it. The only thing that i didn't like was the phonecall
> during the broadcast. Another stupid company that called me and wanted
> something to sell to me. I made it *very* clear it didn't liked that.
> That should learn them not to disturb me during Angel.
Je kunt je uit de database van (de meeste) telemarketeers laten
verwijderen door te bellen met:
0800-0224666
Ik heb al tijden niets meer gehoord.
--
Peter Kleiweg | P e t r o n o m i c o n |
e-mail: invalid -> nl | http://www.let.rug.nl/~kleiweg |
Guardian of Spike's Innocence, and his Dislike of Puppies
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Buffy: Mr. Flutie...
Flutie: All the kids here are free to call me Bob.
Buffy: Bob...
Flutie: But they don't.
-- Welcome to the Hellmouth
P@rick
38D6D007...@std.vu.nl...
<SNIP>
> > > > (and btw, the place *was* great). I'm wondering if we'll see
> > > > any more of the ghost.
> >
> > I nice touch, letting the other ghost live with her.
>
> Funny touch...hope it stays, personally.
You really think ghostboy can put up with Cordy 'till the next ep?
Somehow I feel the whole ep was about getting Cordy a more suitable place.
And it *is* more suitable, it just feels right. I was getting a bit tired of
all those damp and dark rooms.
Bye, Patrick
--
And I'm eating this banana. Lunchtime be damned!
Willow - Doppelgangland
Mr. Stonehouse
Mattia Valente wrote:
> > It was o so funny to see that Cordelia wasn't scared. Otherwise we would
> > have seen a standard spooky story. I agree that the monster wasn't scary
> > but that didn't bother me a for a minute. I found it a funny episode
>
> Cordy WAS scared, at least until her 'true nature' reared its head once
> again...Come on, she stayed up all night. If that ain't fear, I don't
> know what is..
You're right she was scared in the beginning but not scared enough to
leave the house. What i meant was that she wasn't a standard scared
teenager that leaves the house running and screaming (or goes upstairs).
Stonehouse, who obiviously has seen too many scary movies
Mr. Stonehouse
Peter Kleiweg wrote:
>
> Mr. Stonehouse skriver...
>
> > I really liked it. The only thing that i didn't like was the phonecall
> > during the broadcast. Another stupid company that called me and wanted
> > something to sell to me. I made it *very* clear it didn't liked that.
> > That should learn them not to disturb me during Angel.
>
> Je kunt je uit de database van (de meeste) telemarketeers laten
> verwijderen door te bellen met:
>
> 0800-0224666
>
> Ik heb al tijden niets meer gehoord.
Heb ik een paar maanden geleden ook gedaan en het werkt inderdaad heel
goed. Alleen dus niet bij diegene die maandag belde tijdens Angel. Net
eentje die blijkbaar helaas niet onder (de meeste) telemarketeers valt
:-(
Tweede oplossing is natuurlijk de telefoon gewoon niet opnemen tijdens
Angel. Als het belangrijk is bellen ze wel terug.
Stonehouse
Mattia Valente
Peter Kleiweg wrote:
>
> Mattia Valente skriver...
>
> > Hehe...At least you have a choice. I have other commitments
> > every Monday night, so I'm stuck with programming the VCR (on
> > a similar note, does anyone know if Fox has Shoview numbers?
> > PDC signals?
>
> No PDC signal. Only NL1/2/3, VRT1, Canvas/Ketnet, BBC1/2. And
> that other kind of signal for ARD, ZDF and N3.
>
> > I hope we get a little more serious. I for one don't like Xena
> > and Hercules much because they are too silly. I like the blend
> > of comedy and ironic elements, but keeping it semi-serious
> > (not too much so, lonely hearts was an example of how not to
> > do it for me...) Still waiting for a story arc (said that
> > about 20 times in various messages now, haven't I?)
>
> Xena and Hercules don't seem silly to me, because they are
> convincingly over-the-top. The characters are very strong, so
> they get away with it. And there still are dramatic story arcs
> linking everything together. I think Xena and Hercules may look
> more silly to an 18 year old.
Admittedly, I've never really watched the show for very long (an episode
once in a while..) so I've never seen any story arc, which doesn't help
any...Most people who don't watch buffy also think its too silly, so I
guess, I'll trust you on that. Won't start me watching though (I already
spend too much time in front of a TV as it is..;-)
Mattia
zeppo
DEFINITELY silly, hehehe
Zeppo
--
'Now I'm cleaing up and I'm moving on, going straight and choosing life. I'm
looking forward to it already. I'm gonna be just like you.'
george van hal
Peter Kleiweg wrote:
> Andrea skriver...
> > > Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes!
> >
> > Oh. Um.
>
> I got 14 Buffy and Angel tapes, don't know where to put any more
> of them, and it's getting too expensive. And Farscape was at a
> later time-slot (and no more repeats), so I think, well, let's
> just run the VCR, don't bother about commercials, etc. I watch
> it later, and then use the tape for something else.
I know.....Buffy, Angel, Roswell, Dawson's creek, babylon 5, good movies
(like Romeo & Juliet and the usual suspects). All of them aired of
late....I'm completly dying in tapes <g>
> Yes, this was the best episode of all.
Are you peter <g>? What did you do with him?? Hmm....
I kind of expected you to hate it, because I loved the episode. Ah well
one of those exceptions that prove the rule <g>
> There was all sorts of
> things wrong with it, Cordelia switching character too suddenly,
agree
>
> psychological inconsistent,
agree (but only with cordy)
> Angel *not* eating (last ep he drank
> coffee),
very true
> the face in the wall something we have seen too often.
> But, you know, it doesn't matter. This episode has bite, it was
> over the top, like some Xena episode at moments, but it was CC
> who made it work. Get wild, but do it convincingly. I loved this
> episode.
And some more agreeing, even though I don't want to compare it to Xena.
Now that's a show that lacks depth and tenstion....
> And know I'm stuck with that tape with the commercials in it.
> Why didn't anybody warn us?
Well what have you learned from this experience? The tapes allways win,
that's what!
> > > [...] Even though the story might not have been very
> > > original, the way it was handled was perfect and it provided
> > > a great development in the character of Cordy. She seems to
> > > be getting her confidence back and the end of the ep proved
> > > it/
>
> Well, I wouldn't call it great character development, it was too
> much over the top.
Yes it was over the top (like Buffy is as well sometimes), but it was
still based in reality. This episode dealt with cordy and her fears etc.
And the end of the episode she faced her fears. Granted, there were some
inconsistencies and some unconvincingly soon changes, but on the whole
it was a nice bit of character development for Cordy....
> She really makes all the others of the Buffy gang look like
> children. (Perhaps that's what you get if you use a 30 year old
> actress to play the roll of an 18 year old spoiled kid.)
Ah there's the Peter we all know.....I was starting to get woried (oh
and don't forget that the rest of the Buffy cast is also way older than
the people they're portraying, so that's not just cordy...)
> > The fight with the demon & co was close to boring.
>
> I liked it. It was very high action, more then the usual fight
> scene, which fitted in the over-the-top storytelling.
Yep, it was a great bit of fighting. The part with the demons coming in
showing their guns almost reminded me of an entrance in a John Woo film.
Too bad it didn't turn into one of those slow motion multiple angle
fight sequences, but I'm not complaining....
See Ya,
George
george van hal
Mattia Valente wrote:
> Here come comments...I think.....
>
> george van hal wrote:
> >
> > I admit that I was starting to get a bit woried, but this episode of
> > angel removed all my doubts. I *loved* it. It seems the show has finally
> > found the right ballance between drama, action and humor. It had some
>
> Hmm..not sure if its the perfect balance yet, but its getting better and
> better. STILL missing a major story arc though..We gain a lot of insight
> into the characters (some more Cordy background, to a large extent
> placed there, I suspect, for the benefit of the non-Buffy viewing
> audiences..Revealed a little more about her though)
Indeed. The Story arc is still the major thing missing in Angel. But if they
keep up giving us these episodes (and *please* no more lonely heart or even I
fall to pieces type eps...) I'll still really enjoy the show. Still don't
understand where all the "Angel is way better than Buffy" comments came from
before angel premiered in Holland though...
<snipping a whole bit on cordy that I completely agree with>
> > I'm wondering if we'll see any more of the ghost. Anyways
> > there's probably a lot more to say, but I can't think of it atm. I'm
> > just waaaaay too happy that angel finally delivered the goods like
> > expected. I hope they can keep it up....
>
> The ghost thing is pretty funny. Maybe he'll sideline in the show (kinda
> like Amy/Rat did in S3 in later eps...) It was pretty funny though.
> Cordy has him under control, in any case.
Indeed. It may cause some nice funny lines and it's a chance for the first
non-buffy inspired running joke in Angel. Hope they use it ;-)
> Overall, Angel is turning out to be a good solid show. Fave is still "In
> the Dark" but this one is number two on my (as of yet very short)
> list...
Yes, In the Dark is also still my favorite, but more because that was a Buffu
crossover with all the Buffy ingredients except Buffy and the rest of the
scoobygang. This episode was the first episode completly inspired by the Angel
storyline and world and the first one that actually did it for me. Because of
that Whedon and Greenwalt deserve more praise for this than they did for In
the Dark.
> Still waiting for that major plot arc though....
Yes...me too, but it doesn't seem like next weeks ep (Sense and Sensitivity)
is gonna provide that for us.....
> Next week's Angel
> looks a little odd. Could be good (more Kate, which is something..) but
> could end up being silly...It promises to at least be funny, which I
> can't particularly say for 'Lonely Hearts', which I think was the
> weakest ep we have seen.
Agreeing. You need the humor mixed with the serious. I didn't like the "We're
depressed and want to make you depressed as well" feel of lonely hearts. Not
that I don't like dark shows (because I do), but angel's not that type of show
and it doesn't do 100% serious too well.....
See Ya,
George
zeppo
I have a few....
-Angel and Kate
-Doyle and Cordy
-Doyle's past catching up on him
spoiler
-The lawyer firm Wolfram and Hart
Mattia Valente
>
> Story Arcs...
>
> I have a few....
>
> -Angel and Kate
>
> -Doyle and Cordy
>
> -Doyle's past catching up on him
>
> spoiler
>
> -The lawyer firm Wolfram and Hart
Thats a bunch of setups for possible 'arcs', and I've noticed them, but
I want episodes that deal with these things in some more detail. Thought
of Wolfram and Hart as soon as they pooped on screen in City of..Angel
and Kate, not really what I call a story arc...thats a relationship
issue. Mayor in S3 Angelus in S2, Master in S1, those are story
arcs...the other stuff is, well, mini-arcs, I guess...
Mattia
Andrea
Peter said:
>Andrea skriver...
>> Oh. Um.
>
>I got 14 Buffy and Angel tapes, don't know where to put any more
>of them,
Huh? I've got 26 B7 tapes, 52 Voy tapes, 10 Buffy, 2 Angel, a couple of
Highlander, some X-files, 1 TNG, and I'm not even counting the husband's and
kids' videos.
:)) Okay, so I had to move the books upstairs. :)))
and it's getting too expensive. And Farscape was at a
>later time-slot (and no more repeats), so I think, well, let's
>just run the VCR, don't bother about commercials, etc. I watch
>it later, and then use the tape for something else.
>
>And then you get this.
>
>Yes, this was the best episode of all.
So both you *and* George disagree with me. That's a first. :))
There was all sorts of
>things wrong with it, Cordelia switching character too suddenly,
>psychological inconsistent,
Yes. Yes.
Angel *not* eating (last ep he drank
>coffee),
Hm. That's something that didn't bother me. I could even buy Angel secretly
eating peanutbutter in bed, just for the fun of it. :)
the face in the wall something we have seen too often.
>But, you know, it doesn't matter. This episode has bite, it was
>over the top,
Yes. And perhaps that's what I didn't like about it.
like some Xena episode at moments, but it was CC
>who made it work. Get wild, but do it convincingly. I loved this
>episode.
>
>And know I'm stuck with that tape with the commercials in it.
>Why didn't anybody warn us?
Fact is, I think we *were* warned. Last week someone (? sorry) said RwaV was
a *very* good ep, if not the best so far. So perhaps my expectations were
just a little too high. :(
>
>> > [...] Even though the story might not have been very
>> > original, the way it was handled was perfect and it provided
>> > a great development in the character of Cordy. She seems to
>> > be getting her confidence back and the end of the ep proved
>> > it/
Yeah, but IMO, she hadn't lost that confidence until this very ep.
>
>Well, I wouldn't call it great character development, it was too
>much over the top.
Agree.
>
>She really makes all the others of the Buffy gang look like
>children. (Perhaps that's what you get if you use a 30 year old
>actress to play the roll of an 18 year old spoiled kid.)
I'm dying to see Buffy's 4th season, to see if the Scooby gang also did some
growing up over summer. :)
>
>> > (and btw, the place *was* great). I'm wondering if we'll see
>> > any more of the ghost.
>
>I nice touch, letting the other ghost live with her.
Hm. Didn't like that either. :( Seemed to me as if the writers thought we
needed an extra -comical- character, and someone came up with 'Hey! Let's
add Casper!'
>
>> Seriously, I felt there were all sorts of inconsistencies and
>> other small things that bothered me. Cordy was funny, but she
>> seemed out of character to me. The monster wasn't scary,
>> simply because it didn't scare Cordelia in the first place.
>
>You mean mommy dearest? She did her very best, but Cordelia was
>too scared to be scared away.
>
>> The fight with the demon & co was close to boring.
>
>I liked it. It was very high action, more then the usual fight
>scene, which fitted in the over-the-top storytelling. I liked
>how the other daemon was looking, that collector. And he could
>talk, something you don't see often once they put a rubber mask
>on someone's face.
Okay, so the special effects were good.
>
>> And although I liked seeing Kate again, her part in the ep
>> seemed forced, as if the writers needed to make sure we'd
>> remember Kate for future episodes. Also, Angel & Doyle came to
>> visit in broad daylight, whcih I could have overlooked if
>> Doyle hadn't closed the curtains. And where had the son's
>> girlfriend gone? She wasn't there with Dennis, was she? And
>> there were more things. Details that didn't feel right.
>
>I hope this episode really represents were the show is going
>(contradicting myself about not taking Spike seriously). BtVS is
>a show that takes itself very seriously. It has to be, all those
>kids making a big thing out of life. We are older, like to take
>things with a little more irony. So get wild with the show now
>and again, make fun out of the actors, put in a little Hong Kong
>Dragon Fighting, characters running all over the place. Do it
>with passion, and it will still be emotionally gripping. It can
>be done that way, shows like Xena and Hercules prove it can.
Well, I'm not a Xena or Hercules fan, so... :(
>
>(I'm still mad with myself for taping over that musical Xena
>episode.)
... but I must admit I would have liked seeing that one. :)
Andrea :)
Peter Kleiweg
> Story Arcs...
>
> I have a few....
>
> -Angel and Kate
>
> -Doyle and Cordy
>
> -Doyle's past catching up on him
What about Spike and Cordelia as the new love couple?
--
Peter Kleiweg | P e t r o n o m i c o n |
e-mail: invalid -> nl | http://www.let.rug.nl/~kleiweg |
Guardian of Spike's Innocence, and his Dislike of Puppies
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What's that do?
-- Judge, Innocence
Andrea
Mattia said:
>Here come comments...I think.....
>
>george van hal wrote:
>>
>> I admit that I was starting to get a bit woried, but this episode of
>> angel removed all my doubts. I *loved* it. It seems the show has finally
>> found the right ballance between drama, action and humor. It had some
>
>Hmm..not sure if its the perfect balance yet, but its getting better and
>better. STILL missing a major story arc though..
Agree. We all know it's coming, and by now it's becoming a tad frustrating
that nothing happens yet. So to speak.
We gain a lot of insight
>into the characters (some more Cordy background, to a large extent
>placed there, I suspect, for the benefit of the non-Buffy viewing
>audiences..Revealed a little more about her though)
>
>> great character moments, it was involving, it was funny, it was
>> everything I hoped it would be. Even though the story might not have
>> been very original, the way it was handled was perfect and it provided a
>> great development in the character of Cordy. She seems to be getting her
>> confidence back and the end of the ep proved it (and btw, the place
>> *was* great).
>
>Correctamundo. It's nice to see a Cordy centered episode, with all the
>necessary ingredients (especially the funny remarks: "I from Sunnydale,
>you can't scare me!" or "I'm not some whiny little cry-buffy" "Stranger
>things have happened. Oh wait, no they haven't" and the whole bit with
>her popping at Angel's had me laughing out loud at times.)
Okay, Cordy was funny. Angel was funny, Doyle was funny. I don't want funny.
:((( I want drama and suspense and I only want funny to ease the tension now
and again. :(
>
>We also got a little more info on Doyle, although I'm impatiently
>waiting on the guy's history.
Ditto here.
I for one did not think Cordelia was out
>of character at all (as was alluded to in another post) Her reactions to
>the taunting were realistic, because she has been failing at being an
>actress, she has little or no money (how the hell could she afford that
>appartment, I wonder....suicide rate probably brought the rent down some
>;-) and the words struck a nerve: they quite accurately described how
>she felt (guilt over former behaviour,
But but but, she's never felt guilty, she's never shown any sign of guilt,
so the whole guilt thing came from absolutely nowhere to me.
IMHO as a way of trying to
>rationalize what was happening to her), and her situation. Particularly
>good was the flip back to Cordy, the Bitch: Saw it coming, but well done
>nonetheless. This is probably the most acting intesive episode CC has
>ever done in either show (the only ones that contained smidgens of it
>were in S3 after, well, if you've seen it you know, and I don't feel
>like more spoiler space just in case...)
>
>> I'm wondering if we'll see any more of the ghost. Anyways
>> there's probably a lot more to say, but I can't think of it atm. I'm
>> just waaaaay too happy that angel finally delivered the goods like
>> expected. I hope they can keep it up....
<sigh>
>
>The ghost thing is pretty funny. Maybe he'll sideline in the show (kinda
>like Amy/Rat did in S3 in later eps...) It was pretty funny though.
>Cordy has him under control, in any case. On the Danny subject: did that
>mortared alive thing ring a bell anywhere? I THINK Its from an Edgar
>Allan Poe Story, but I can't remeber which one (something like flask
>of...could be completely wrong though...)
Yep, I think Poe did one, but I've read more stories about corpses behin
brick walls. :)
>
>Overall, Angel is turning out to be a good solid show. Fave is still "In
>the Dark"
After seeing all eps twice now: agree!! :)
but this one is number two on my (as of yet very short)
>list...Still waiting for that major plot arc though....Next week's Angel
>looks a little odd. Could be good (more Kate, which is something..) but
>could end up being silly...It promises to at least be funny, which I
>can't particularly say for 'Lonely Hearts', which I think was the
>weakest ep we have seen. I guess I'm an eternal sceptic, but chances are
>I'll enjoy myself greatly nonetheless ;-)
The same thoughts crossed my mind.
Andrea
(a little worried)
Mattia Valente
>
> zeppo skriver...
>
> > Story Arcs...
> >
> > I have a few....
> >
> > -Angel and Kate
> >
> > -Doyle and Cordy
> >
> > -Doyle's past catching up on him
>
> What about Spike and Cordelia as the new love couple?
Hehe...Funny. Isn't Spike a regular on Buffy's season 4 though? Minor
detail ;-)
> --
> Peter Kleiweg | P e t r o n o m i c o n |
> e-mail: invalid -> nl | http://www.let.rug.nl/~kleiweg |
> Guardian of Spike's Innocence, and his Dislike of Puppies
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> What's that do?
> -- Judge, Innocence
Question: Do you have something that dynamically generates a sig (its a
different quote almost every time..) or something? Function built into
newsreader? What? Inquiring minds want to know ;-)
Mattia
Mattia Valente
OK, tastes differ. I personally do not want all the eps to be like this;
funny is good in moderate dosage. I liked the Zeppo, for instance, but
more eps like that would have probably just been too much for me...
> >We also got a little more info on Doyle, although I'm impatiently
> >waiting on the guy's history.
>
> Ditto here.
>
> I for one did not think Cordelia was out
> >of character at all (as was alluded to in another post) Her reactions to
> >the taunting were realistic, because she has been failing at being an
> >actress, she has little or no money (how the hell could she afford that
> >appartment, I wonder....suicide rate probably brought the rent down some
> >;-) and the words struck a nerve: they quite accurately described how
> >she felt (guilt over former behaviour,
>
> But but but, she's never felt guilty, she's never shown any sign of guilt,
> so the whole guilt thing came from absolutely nowhere to me.
True...then again, we haven't seen much of Cordelia's true self beyond
the sad little moments in City of.., for example. Most of the time she's
around people, her usual snappy self. She's been putting on a facade
(ever since late season 3 really, Xander was the only who knew for a
long time...)
> IMHO as a way of trying to
> >rationalize what was happening to her), and her situation. Particularly
> >good was the flip back to Cordy, the Bitch: Saw it coming, but well done
> >nonetheless. This is probably the most acting intesive episode CC has
> >ever done in either show (the only ones that contained smidgens of it
> >were in S3 after, well, if you've seen it you know, and I don't feel
> >like more spoiler space just in case...)
> >
> >> I'm wondering if we'll see any more of the ghost. Anyways
> >> there's probably a lot more to say, but I can't think of it atm. I'm
> >> just waaaaay too happy that angel finally delivered the goods like
> >> expected. I hope they can keep it up....
>
> <sigh>
>
> >
> >The ghost thing is pretty funny. Maybe he'll sideline in the show (kinda
> >like Amy/Rat did in S3 in later eps...) It was pretty funny though.
> >Cordy has him under control, in any case. On the Danny subject: did that
> >mortared alive thing ring a bell anywhere? I THINK Its from an Edgar
> >Allan Poe Story, but I can't remeber which one (something like flask
> >of...could be completely wrong though...)
>
> Yep, I think Poe did one, but I've read more stories about corpses behin
> brick walls. :)
Flask of Montenegro? (something with Monte in any case...read it in, oh,
5th grade, left an impression I guess ;-)
> >
> >Overall, Angel is turning out to be a good solid show. Fave is still "In
> >the Dark"
>
> After seeing all eps twice now: agree!! :)
I've taken to watching all eps twice ;-) My Mondays are booked, so I
program the VCR and tape it, get home at around 22:30-23:00 and watch it
(not quite awake) and then watch it again the next evening, or afternoon
if perchance something worth watching is on...
> but this one is number two on my (as of yet very short)
> >list...Still waiting for that major plot arc though....Next week's Angel
> >looks a little odd. Could be good (more Kate, which is something..) but
> >could end up being silly...It promises to at least be funny, which I
> >can't particularly say for 'Lonely Hearts', which I think was the
> >weakest ep we have seen. I guess I'm an eternal sceptic, but chances are
> >I'll enjoy myself greatly nonetheless ;-)
>
> The same thoughts crossed my mind.
>
> Andrea
> (a little worried)
Not too worried, I hope....Well, S4 looks appropriately gloomy at times
from the little snippets of spoilage I've read, against my better
judgement or due to lack of spoiler space...plot arcy as well..don't
know how fast though, can't wait to find out..12 more days, 12 more
days...;-)
Mattia
zeppo
Mayor in S3 a politician, Angel in S2 a good guy gone bad and the Master in
S1, well, a scary guy.
But I wont cause I would have to agree with you, nothing major (in a story
arc kinda way) yet to be seen in Angel, but I dont think Angel is 'story arc
driven', it is more characterdriven.
untill Wesley comes back as a Rogue Demon,
Zeppo
--
'Now I'm cleaing up and I'm moving on, going straight and choosing life. I'm
looking forward to it already. I'm gonna be just like you.'
"Mattia Valente" <mae.v...@std.vu.nl> wrote in message
news:38D7C1AD...@std.vu.nl...
> zeppo wrote:
> >
> > Story Arcs...
> >
> > I have a few....
> >
> > -Angel and Kate
> >
> > -Doyle and Cordy
> >
> > -Doyle's past catching up on him
> >
zeppo
Angel (or will he). The girl he loved (at least that is what I think) is
with the guy he hates the most AND developing a (al be it platonic)
realtionship with him, I think Angel and Cordy are good for eachother,
platonically speaking...
So, untill Angel dances in a silly, disco kinda way,
jack
Peter Kleiweg
> Question: Do you have something that dynamically generates a sig (its a
> different quote almost every time..) or something? Function built into
> newsreader? What? Inquiring minds want to know ;-)
I use Linux. Easy to link utilities, no need for big
apllications with everything built in.
--
Peter Kleiweg | P e t r o n o m i c o n |
e-mail: invalid -> nl | http://www.let.rug.nl/~kleiweg |
Guardian of Spike's Innocence, and his Dislike of Puppies
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
If anything should happen to you and... you should be killed, I
should take it somewhat amiss.
-- Giles, Anne
zeppo
'the me'...
untill Faith does someone else close to Buffy,
Zeppo
Jonathan Black
> Main reason I like BBC..no logos, no subtitles, no commercials, full
> credits (at least on friday nights..)
Amen to that.
Anyway, I've just got round to watching "Rm w/a Vu" tonight. I missed the
first three episodes so I've only seen "I Fall to Pieces" and this, and
(perhaps needless to say) I found "Vu" by far the better of the two...
After seeing "Pieces" I had serious doubts about this new series (it felt
like it was trying to do an X-Files type monster o/t week thing and not
making a particularly good job of it), but this week's episode has
probably convinced me enough to keep watching the series.
I thought Charisma was fantastic in this episode. Maybe this is silly, but
on hearing her opening line ("I've had it with these cheap trash bags!
They leak and break and end up costing us more!"), I thought ouch, there's
some bad acting... And then when it turned out a few seconds later that
this was Charisma acting *Cordelia's* acting I went from being
disappointed to being really impressed. It's been said before, but I think
that's a really good sign, when someone can *act* acting, just like Alyson
in "Doppelgängland" [she may have even taken it a few levels futher there,
but my mind always screws up when I try to work that out :-)]
As far as the series in general is concernerd, while I've only seen two
eps so far, I think it's developing a pretty good "look and feel". I like
the sunrise shots and that sort of "warp" effect they use for jumps in
space and/or time. Little touches like this help to create a kind of
unique identity for the series.
Oh but I must say I don't like F8X's "next week on Angel" bit being tacked
onto the end like that. They're a bit too spoilery for my taste so I think
I'll have to try not watching them in the future. For example, the moment
where we first see the old woman in Cordelia's mirror would have been
pretty cool if I hadn't seen it coming seconds beforehand thanks to having
seen that shot in last week's "next week" preview...
My two eurocents...
--
J o N a T H a N
"Hey, your High School diploma is all burnt."
"Yeah, it was a rough ceremony."
--Doyle / Cordelia
'Rm w/a Vu' Angel