Well... (SPOILERS FOR FINAL EPISODE)
Andrew Cameron
w
e
l
l
,
i
h
a
ve
h
o
n
e
s
t
l
y
n
o
i
d
e
a
w
h
a
t
t
o
t
h
i
n
k
o
f
t
h
a
t
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
So, first the big stuff. Wes dies. Lorne kills Lindsey after doing NOTHING
ELSE for the rest of the season. Connor does infact have his memories back
and comes to fight alongside Angel. Angel kills Hamilton and W&H release
all kinds of hell upon their asses.
Very similar to the Buffy ending, except stopping a bit earlier. I'm
assuming that they didn't make it, but then that kind of fucks up the
prophecy arc that's been present since season one, and I don't think a bunch
of demons arriving in an alley counts as an apocalypse. Killing the Black
Thorn members wasn't very effective for me, since we've only learned about
them recently. Now it's clear that W&H can't be beaten and all that, but it
would have been cool to have a few answers about the white room and other
similar bonuses that come with a series finale. Meh.
So, overall a bit obvious that they didn't have real answers to the
questions they've been posing, and a bit of a let-down although very
finale-y (still less finale-like than "Home", IMO). A few mini-fights, a
huge fight we don't get to see any of, and the ending of one of my favourite
shows. Some will say it's open-ended, but I'd say that's a radical
interpretation of the text.
I also hope this group doesn't die, but if it's going to, let's have it go
out with one hell of a thread ;-)
--
Andrew Cameron
"Got my hand on my heart, I know no better location..."
Gavin Clayton
>Very similar to the Buffy ending, except stopping a bit earlier.
>Now it's clear that W&H can't be beaten and all that, but it
>would have been cool to have a few answers about the white room and other
>similar bonuses that come with a series finale. Meh.
I know what you mean. It totally fits the theme of the season to end
with Angel et al continuing the fight. But even though the *fight*
shouldn't end, there could still have been a far more conclusive feel
to other elements in the show. Overall it leaves me with a feeling
that there must be a 23rd episode next week. It's awkward like that.
But here is my LJ entry where I wrote about this:
I have mixed feelings about the ending. I hate it because a lack of
conclusion is narratively unsatisfying. And I like it because it fits
the entire theme of the season. There are very specific reasons why it
ends on a Butch & Sundance cliffhanger:
The theme of the episode - and of the whole season - is that evil
cannot be defeated, it can only be fought. Life is about controlling
evil, but never defeating it. Angel moving to W&H was all about that:
instead of defeating evil, Angel was put in charge of managing it like
a business. Any conclusion to the episode would prove that either good
or evil won, which cannot happen. Neither element wins... they sustain
each other in eternal conflict. Being the very last shot of the
episode, Angel's fight is now captured as eternal. They're fighting
forever, because that last shot is forever.
I think it's clear that Joss wanted to make an angry statement about
the show's cancellation. Like, "The fans get a cliffhanger because you
bastards won't give us another season." But its funny that some
cancelled shows finish on such a cliffhanger against their will,
whereas ME had months to plan a satisfying conclusion and finished on
a cliffhanger out of choice.
It's an interesting way of letting the characters survive in our
imaginations. I'm sure there will be plenty of fanfic written. I
personally like the idea of 100 Slayers joining the battle with Buffy
barking orders from a helicopter flown by Andrew (Vi kills the dragon!
Um, just my imagination).
But like I said, its quite hard to cope with a total lack of
conclusion for this plot-line, and so many threads in general that
didn't get tied up. The ending is begging for a "To Be Continued" and
a 23rd episode. Perhaps the ending would have been better if the guys
took a few minutes to collect their thoughts before going into the big
battle -- to give the ending the "Oomph" it deserves, rather than
feeling rushed. To give the viewer more time to appreciate that it's
the last ever scene.
Gavin Clayton
Major ChrisB
"Andrew Cameron" <inv...@easynews.com> wrote in message
news:ho6rc.15773616$Id.26...@news.easynews.com...
I thought it was a really fantastic half an episode.....hopefully the next
half of the episode will be really good too.
but seriously....good episode, didn't like Wes being dead, didn't like
Harmony being the betrayer as she's not really been around too much. It
seemed like a very rushed finale...I get the whole 'the fight always goes
on' theme but I think it sucks...Joss said there wouldn't be a cliff hanger
and no matter how you look at it, it was a cliff hanger....
Personally I think Angel, Spike and Illarya would have survived the battle
and if it continued we'd see Lorne perhaps show some magic, eve appearing to
help out and maybe even Wes re-appear....however, I think if they did do a
tv movie, a feature movie or another buffy-verse series they'd start after
the fight rather than continuing....
All in all it was a really great season finale but as a series finale is
sucked ass and I dont belive for a second joss would let it end like that.
Jonathan Dupont
True, but you've got to give them a little slack what with the whole
only learning about the cancellation recently thing. Personally, I can
accept it - after all, its kinda appropriate that they go down in just
another gight.
> Now it's clear that W&H can't be beaten
> and all that, but it would have been cool to have a few answers about
> the white room and other similar bonuses that come with a series
> finale. Meh.
Also true, but it's not essential.
Sorting out the Shansu business was far more important to me.
> So, overall a bit obvious that they didn't have real answers to the
> questions they've been posing, and a bit of a let-down although very
> finale-y (still less finale-like than "Home", IMO). A few
> mini-fights, a huge fight we don't get to see any of, and the ending
> of one of my favourite shows. Some will say it's open-ended, but I'd
> say that's a radical interpretation of the text.
See, that I don't get at all - in many ways I think that was far more
thematically complete than even the Buffy finale.
Angel's life always seems to come back to alleys - he was sired one, fed
on rats in one, started his fight in LA in one. His son was born there,
and he turned back into Angelus in one. It seems appropriate that he
should end there, perhaps fighting to his death, but at least no longer
crawling around in the alleys.
Not to mention - he finally did what he's promising himself for so long,
and gave up fighting for reward, signing away the Shansu. He accepted
his vampire nature, and even used it to defeat the bad guy.
Everyone else... Lorne had real character growth, and became a far more
interesting character to me. As an added bonus, "Spin the Bottle"'s
flashback device now makes far more sense - he's quite possibly the only
one who survived, and "Apocalypse, Nowish" is as good a place as any to
say where the final run of trouble started. (Of course, there's minor
mind wipe problems, but close enough :) )
Wes betrayed Angel one last time, and in painful symettry got to repay
the favour to Fred and die in her arms. Was his death meaningless?
Maybe, but that's the way he's always been.
William became the poet again, reconciled with his Spike side, and in no
way did it involve either Buffy or Dru. If anything, a better ending for
him than Chosen.
Gunn became the vampire fighter once more, returning full circle, and
can I just say how much I loved seeing Anne again one last time? She was
the Buffiverse's first emmigrant to LA, and it was right she showed up a
last time. Connor showed us a taste of what the future will be (I
really, really like the interpretation where he's the fulfilment of the
Shansu thing...), Harmony stayed mercifully evil, and Lindsey's
character was finally made interesting again, recognising that he's not
the centre of the story.
Yes, they left some issues undecided on, but then I never thought they
could answer them absolutely anyway. In the end the show ended with four
people, fighting one last time, still seeking redemption, and that's the
way it should be.
> I also hope this group doesn't die, but if it's going to, let's have
> it go out with one hell of a thread ;-)
:)
Jon
Dave Emberton
news:Xns94EFD2DECCA46jo...@195.149.20.147...
> way did it involve either Buffy or Dru. If anything, a better ending for
> him than Chosen.
I really liked that, and the mislead that he was just going to start a big
fight.
Connor showed us a taste of what the future will be (I
> really, really like the interpretation where he's the fulfilment of the
> Shansu thing...),
Yes that is nice.
> Yes, they left some issues undecided on, but then I never thought they
> could answer them absolutely anyway. In the end the show ended with four
> people, fighting one last time, still seeking redemption, and that's the
> way it should be.
It's a shame that we know that mini-series and TV movies are being talked
about, because it almost ruins the ending. The answer to whether they
survived or not is in the hands of some Hollywood producers, and to which
actors they can hire. And if it does happen what are the odds that Wes makes
a sudden recovery? ;-)
Generally speaking this series hasn't really done it for me, and the ending
is a bit of a so-what. It was one of the better episodes, but I don't think
it was anywhere near as good as the Buffy finale. It's a bit of a flimsy
excuse to say they didn't know the cancellation was coming - even if it
wasn't the ending then was that the only season finale they had planned?
Invent some baddies last week, and kill them this week - it's almost MOTW.
Dave
Tony Gowland
Thought that was very nicely done, although I expected the Fred bit after
his earlier talk with Iliria. I thought it was quite odd to send Wes, who's
okay with magic, but still mostly a brawler, against the most powerful
wizard. Still, I suppose he was the only one that would have even gotten
close enough to have half a chance.
I liked Iliria's grief as well. And a lovely transition while she was
punching. Not sure whether the wizard dude was meant to not know who she was
("little girl"? He didn't see her turn up in his house either), or if he was
just meant to vastly underestimate her, since surely he'd've been able to
come up with something to stop a haymaker like that.
> Lorne kills Lindsey after doing
> NOTHING ELSE for the rest of the season.
Yeah, but it was worth it for the shock it gave Lindsey :) Turns out he
isn't really a player at all, and a lackey can put him down.
> Connor does infact have his
> memories back and comes to fight alongside Angel.
I really liked Connor's contribution to this season, which is something
considering I haven't likd anything else he's done.
> Angel kills
> Hamilton and W&H release all kinds of hell upon their asses.
The guy who plays Hamilton does the worst Hugo Weaving impression in the
world. I expected a longer fight after Angel drank his blood. Or at least
for a neck snapping or something.
> Very similar to the Buffy ending, except stopping a bit earlier. I'm
> assuming that they didn't make it,
Yeah, that's my take on it too. I thought they made it pretty clea Gunn was
about to die, and three of them against a whole army of demons (and a
dragon) (and some sort of troll thing)?
> but then that kind of fucks up the
> prophecy arc that's been present since season one, and I don't think
> a bunch of demons arriving in an alley counts as an apocalypse.
Was it meant to be any more? Angel signed himself out of the apocolypse. Off
the top of my head I can't think of any major storylines or prophesies that
weren't wrapped up. But I'm probably about to be proved wrong.
> Killing the Black Thorn members wasn't very effective for me, since
> we've only learned about them recently.
I agree with that. And weren't there a lot more of them last week than the
number they killed this week?
> Now it's clear that W&H
> can't be beaten and all that, but it would have been cool to have a
> few answers about the white room and other similar bonuses that come
> with a series finale. Meh.
I don't know what answers you want about the white room. It's a holding
dimension sort of thing for the link between the senior partners and the
important people in the firm, was how I saw it.
Harmony's contribution seemed kind of tacked on. It was pretty obvious that
whatever information Angel had given her about "the plan" had been
deliberate to mislead Hamilton.
Angel talking about not remembering what being human's like - wasn't he
human for a few days in season 1?
Really liked Spike's poetry turn. Overall this season has been a better
"close" for him that Buffy's was, I'd say.
And Gunn going back to his roots (was the "haven't dusted enough vamps" a
nod to the Buffy / Angel fans complaining about the lack of vampire slaying
in later seasons of each series?). And a nice appearance by Anne as well.
I was almost *almost* expecting a turn by Buffy to help Angel fight
Hamilton, as well. An uncredited appearance would have been a nice surprise
in Connor's place, and would have been a nice mirror of Angel's turn at the
end of season 7.
Overall I'd say that ending leaves me happy-sad. And that's probably the
best I could have hoped for.
--
Tony Gowland
http://www.planethalflife.com/freakyzoids/
"Guestbook ? Filthbook more like."
kim
>Harmony stayed mercifully evil,
I liked that bit too. She never had any consideration for others even when she
was human so why would she now?
(kim)
kim
>I was almost *almost* expecting a turn by Buffy to help Angel fight
>Hamilton, as well. An uncredited appearance would have been a nice surprise
>in Connor's place, and would have been a nice mirror of Angel's turn at the
>end of season 7.
I thought the events in 5x20 "The Girl In Question" pretty much ruled that out
although I had to have that explained to me by others who watched the episode.
This is probably the ending Buffy would have had but for the necessity of
preserving some part of the Buffyverse in order for Angel to continue for a
fifth season.
(kim)
Tafka
"Major ChrisB" <cgbrannig...@ntlworld.com>. alt.buffy.europe. Thu,
20 May 2004 20:34:23 +0100:
>we'd see Lorne perhaps show some magic, eve appearing to
>help out and maybe even Wes re-appear...
PLEASE SEND ME YOUR CRACK.
YOURS,
-TAFKA-
I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it.
Andrew Hogg
was ongoing. :P
Really. Nothing wrong with that epsiode. Nothing.
--
Andrew Hogg
Niall Harrison
...who happens to be responsible for the mind-wipe, the biggest
reality/illusion problem that Wes has ever had to deal with.
So I get why they did it that way; presumably, had there been an S6, he
would have survived and symbolically assimilated the two sets of memories.
As it is, he dies and is symbolically destroyed by them.
Still, I think rescuing the baby would have been a more fitting task.
>> Angel kills
>> Hamilton and W&H release all kinds of hell upon their asses.
>
> The guy who plays Hamilton does the worst Hugo Weaving impression in the
> world. I expected a longer fight after Angel drank his blood. Or at least
> for a neck snapping or something.
Nah. Wouldn't have fit the scene. Angel turns Hamilton's power against him
to administer a mortal wound in exactly the same way he turns W&H's power
against them to take out the Circle. It's a precision thing, both times.
>> Killing the Black Thorn members wasn't very effective for me, since
>> we've only learned about them recently.
>
> I agree with that. And weren't there a lot more of them last week than the
> number they killed this week?
No. Remember, Lindsey killed a whole roomful (and there were four in
Illyria's car).
> I was almost *almost* expecting a turn by Buffy to help Angel fight
> Hamilton, as well. An uncredited appearance would have been a nice surprise
> in Connor's place, and would have been a nice mirror of Angel's turn at the
> end of season 7.
But would have been *wrong*. The core of Angel's character isn't Buffy any
longer, it's Connor. That's his most important relationship.
Niall
--
Verbing weirds language.
Niall Harrison
> Sorting out the Shansu business was far more important to me.
And one of the weaker parts of the episode, for me. They've played with
the he cares about the shanshu/it doesn't matter to him too much for this
time around to carry much meaning.
>> So, overall a bit obvious that they didn't have real answers to the
>> questions they've been posing, and a bit of a let-down although very
>> finale-y (still less finale-like than "Home", IMO). A few
>> mini-fights, a huge fight we don't get to see any of, and the ending
>> of one of my favourite shows. Some will say it's open-ended, but I'd
>> say that's a radical interpretation of the text.
>
> See, that I don't get at all - in many ways I think that was far more
> thematically complete than even the Buffy finale.
I agree. 'Chosen' had a clear message; 'Not Fade Away' was one ambiguity
after another.
> Everyone else... Lorne had real character growth, and became a far more
> interesting character to me. As an added bonus, "Spin the Bottle"'s
> flashback device now makes far more sense - he's quite possibly the only
> one who survived, and "Apocalypse, Nowish" is as good a place as any to
> say where the final run of trouble started. (Of course, there's minor
> mind wipe problems, but close enough :) )
I still think s4 happened pretty much as we saw it; removing Connor
doesn't actually that have much of an effect. Cordy can still have
ascended and come back infected, and the memory spell can still have
triggered Jasmine. Only difference is you need an immaculate conception
rather than a regular one.
In other words, yeah, I want to believe that's where Lorne was headed,
too. Of course you can't draw a line in the sand and say 'it went wrong
here' - but of course Lorne's going to look back on his own actions, and
interpret one of them as The Start.
> Gunn became the vampire fighter once more, returning full circle, and
> can I just say how much I loved seeing Anne again one last time?
Oh, man, that was *perfect*. The key scene of the whole episode. They went
back to 'Epiphany' and showed us two answers. If nothing we do matters,
then all that matters is what we do: Anne chooses the little stuff, the
day-to-day stuff, Angel and co choose one brief, shining moment. One
instant when they can make a difference.
And for me, the crucial thing is the neither choice is conclusively shown
to be 'right'. Even though it got them all killed, there's no doubt that
Angel's plan was heroic; even though she's never going to change anything,
there's no doubt that Anne is doing good work. Not fade away, indeed.
> (I
> really, really like the interpretation where he's the fulfilment of the
> Shansu thing...),
Yeah, me too. :)
There's another theory I came across somewhere to the effect that Wes has
always been the human side of Angel's pain. I'm not completely convinced
it's a valid reading, but if it is his death - in the light of Angel
killing an innocent and signing away his shanshu - looks very
interesting...
> Lindsey's
> character was finally made interesting again, recognising that he's not
> the centre of the story.
Still, there's basically no way to reconcile Lindsey with 'Dead End'. He's
much more like the Lindsey of 'Blind Date' and early S2. Oh, well.
Niall
--
When memes collide.
Niall Harrison
> i
> h
> a
> ve
> n
> o
> i
> d
> e
> a
> w
> h
> a
> t
> t
> o
> o
> f
> t
> h
> a
> t
> Very similar to the Buffy ending, except stopping a bit earlier.
You wot? _Buffy_ was 'turn on a light', this was 'find a way even in
darkness'. Not unrelated, but significantly different, I think.
> I'm assuming that they didn't make it, but then that kind of fucks up
> the prophecy arc that's been present since season one,
Er, why?
> and I don't think a bunch
> of demons arriving in an alley counts as an apocalypse.
It's not meant to. Thousand year war against an invisible enemy, remember?
It's how you deal with it that's the important thing.
> Killing the Black Thorn members wasn't very effective for me, since
> we've only learned about them recently.
But, you know, secret society. We'd met a good number of the other members
of the Circle.
For me, the only misstep on this side of things was the retcon of the
Angel/Cordy kiss. You can argue that we know the visions are passed on by
a loving kiss, so it's guessable, but they either needed to put the light
show in 'You're Welcome' (and leave us confused for 10 episodes) or to
leave it out of the flashback here (and let us figure out the similarity
to the Doyle/Cordy transition for ourselves). Otherwise, I think it
actually hangs together quite well.
> So, overall a bit obvious that they didn't have real answers to the
> questions they've been posing,
Answers would have *ruined* it. _Angel_ is, and has always been, about the
choices.
> and a bit of a let-down although very
> finale-y (still less finale-like than "Home", IMO).
You could take either, depending on what you want, I guess. 'Not Fade
Away' is the better capstone in my opinion, though.
They came through. I can quibble, but when you get down to it, it was the
right ending.
I just hope to god there aren't any movies.
Niall
--
Chasing after stories that have already been told.
Andrew Hogg
>>character was finally made interesting again, recognising that he's not
>>the centre of the story.
>
> Still, there's basically no way to reconcile Lindsey with 'Dead End'. He's
> much more like the Lindsey of 'Blind Date' and early S2. Oh, well.
>
He turns his back on W&H in Blind Date then revereses his decision when
offered power. He leaves in DE and comes back when he sees the chance
for power. He signs up with the team... and is shot because Angel knew
that Lindsey would flip again and needed to be taken out.
--
Andrew Hogg
Helen H
wrote:
Quite right. This was about all the prophecies, all the experiences,
all the struggles culminating in one heart-stopping moment.
The Senior Partners now know exactly what the human soul is capable
of. Despite the offer of power and glory Angel and co didn't go over
to the "other side". In a shining moment Angel proved that he wasn't
beige ..... he was silver - glittering and shining in the eyes of
evil. He was gloriously human, fighting one the last fight against
insurmountable odds. He was Doyle - going down with style and leaving
hope behind him to spread into dark corners.
I loved the ending .... BTW. :)
<snip>
>> Killing the Black Thorn members wasn't very effective for me, since
>> we've only learned about them recently.
>
>But, you know, secret society. We'd met a good number of the other members
>of the Circle.
Exactly - the idea that all the evil they'd met was somehow linked
seemed right to me. It made the whole of S5 hang together nicely
(except E20 .... shudder).
<snip>
>
>Answers would have *ruined* it. _Angel_ is, and has always been, about the
>choices.
Absolutely .... a nice neat package would have ruined things.
>> and a bit of a let-down although very
>> finale-y (still less finale-like than "Home", IMO).
>
>You could take either, depending on what you want, I guess. 'Not Fade
>Away' is the better capstone in my opinion, though.
Yes, "Home" was always a bit unsatisfying to me. "Not Fade Away" has
style and substance - and neatly captures the series that is "Angel".
>They came through. I can quibble, but when you get down to it, it was the
>right ending.
>
>I just hope to god there aren't any movies.
I agree ...... strange but true, I'm happy knowing that they went
down fighting the good fight. No compromise, no tricks, just guts and
determination.
Helen
kim
>The Senior Partners now know exactly what the human soul is capable
>of. Despite the offer of power and glory Angel and co didn't go over
>to the "other side". In a shining moment Angel proved that he wasn't
>beige ..... he was silver - glittering and shining in the eyes of
>evil. He was gloriously human, fighting one the last fight against
>insurmountable odds. He was Doyle - going down with style and leaving
>hope behind him to spread into dark corners.
So you quite liked him then? :o)
>Exactly - the idea that all the evil they'd met was somehow linked
>seemed right to me. It made the whole of S5 hang together nicely
>(except E20 .... shudder).
Yes but without Ep 20 there would have been a myriad of loose ends left over
from the Buffyverse. It looked to me to have been hurriedly rewritten at the
last minute once they knew the series was ending for definite.
(kim)
Iain Clark
100% agreed. It more or less touched on every relevant issue, neither
too heavily nor too superficially. It tapdanced rather elegantly
through the characters giving all enough time and attention. It
provided action and intelligence in equal measure. And it ended in
quite the most sublime way.
I really, really liked it.
Iain
George van Hal
> out with one hell of a thread ;-)
Hey, you and me both. Didn't start it all those years ago to have it
'Fade Away' as they say. But I do guess this is it. It's done, over, no
more Buffyverse. I could do a whole bit about how much a part of me had
ended and all that stuff, and it would all be true, but this is neither
the place nor time.
I certainly don't hope this is it for alt.buffy.europe, but if it turns
out to be, I can only say it had a great run. We started out with dutch
and UK posters, had a whole stint in between where 'we' (*waves* at
Mattia, Saskia, and whoever else might still be reading this) were all
active and stuff and now we ended with UMTA downloaders. Who would've
ever thought. Guys, everyone, I'm very much gonna miss this. Sorta
stopped posting my comments with one or two exceptions in the light of
the long-ass messages that had always been posted when I got 'round to
watching the eps, but I never stopped reading. Twas great.
I'm leaving the light on, and keeping some logs on the fire. Anyone
willing to hang around: make yourself at home. We'll be here, stuck in
this moment indefinately.
See Ya,
George
Helen H
<snip>
>
>>Exactly - the idea that all the evil they'd met was somehow linked
>>seemed right to me. It made the whole of S5 hang together nicely
>>(except E20 .... shudder).
>
>Yes but without Ep 20 there would have been a myriad of loose ends left over
>from the Buffyverse. It looked to me to have been hurriedly rewritten at the
>last minute once they knew the series was ending for definite.
>
What loose ends? We didn't learn anything new in E20 that we didn't
already know (with respect to the Buffyverse). All the loose ends had
been tidied up in "Damage". If E20 had been E4/5 then it wouldn't have
been such a problem.
Helen
kim
Well for one there was the relationship between Buffy & Angel and Buffy &
Spike. Both were effectively ended by Ep 20. Then there was the Andrew plus
former Potentials vs AI/W&H confrontation. That was simply glossed over in Ep
20.
>If E20 had been E4/5 then it wouldn't have
>been such a problem.
Agreed but the crew didn't know back then that the series was definitely
cancelled.
(kim)
Helen H
Say what? What do you mean the relationships were ended by E20? They
were no more over than they had been before E20. There was nothing in
E20 that gave any more finality than the occasional references to the
Scoobies since "Damage". I mean if Buffy sending Andrew and the
Slayerettes to get Dana because she no longer trusted Angel wasn't a
strong enough hint then I'm not sure what would have been.
I don't remember seeing any former potentials in E20 and the whole
"Andrew" subplot was just weird. This was the guy who played them for
fools (or played the fool for them if you prefer) in "Damage". By the
end of "Damage" it was pretty clear that Andrew had grown up and moved
on and that the Scoobies had likewise moved on. Since they knew that
Andrew was an Oscar-winning actor who had fooled them some months
earlier they (and we) were unlikely to fall for the innocent,
blithering idiot act.
You started out saying that E20 was essential to tie up loose ends and
then you point out that E20 didn't tie them up it glossed them over.
So which is it?
>>If E20 had been E4/5 then it wouldn't have
>>been such a problem.
>
>Agreed but the crew didn't know back then that the series was definitely
>cancelled.
But it still would have made more sense in the S5 narrative. I saw no
good reason for E20 being where it was in the running order (whether
Angel was cancelled or not).
Helen
Mari
>> I also hope this group doesn't die, but if it's going to, let's have
>> it go out with one hell of a thread ;-)
>
> Hey, you and me both. Didn't start it all those years ago to have it
> 'Fade Away' as they say. But I do guess this is it. It's done, over,
> no more Buffyverse. I could do a whole bit about how much a part of me
> had ended and all that stuff, and it would all be true, but this is
> neither the place nor time.
>
> I certainly don't hope this is it for alt.buffy.europe, but if it
> turns out to be, I can only say it had a great run. We started out
> with dutch and UK posters, had a whole stint in between where 'we'
> (*waves* at Mattia, Saskia, and whoever else might still be reading
> this) were all active and stuff and now we ended with UMTA
> downloaders.
*waves back*
> I'm leaving the light on, and keeping some logs on the fire. Anyone
> willing to hang around: make yourself at home. We'll be here, stuck in
> this moment indefinately.
Awwww. It still feels strange, no more Angel... ah well :) Firefly move,
Tru Calling, Buffy animated series, and maybe Angel movies as well. If I
will look for news, this will be the first place where I will be looking
for it.
Mari
--
"If I stayed beside you, love would lead me, not wisdom."
Beleg Cúthalion to Túrin Turambar, The Silmarillion, the Tale of Túrin
Turambar.
Sieue
*late wave*
/me throws a shrimp cocktail for old times sake.
--
Sue H
*..· ´¨¨)) -:¦:-
¸.·´ .·´¨¨))
((¸¸.·´ .·´ -:¦:- Let there be goats...
-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*
Niall Harrison
Sure: you can argue that all he ever does is what makes the most sense
for number one. But I suppose his leaving in 'Dead End' felt a bit more
genuine to me than that.
Niall Harrison
> I loved the ending .... BTW. :)
For a bleak ending it's pretty darn uplifting, certainly. :)
> <snip>
>>> Killing the Black Thorn members wasn't very effective for me, since
>>> we've only learned about them recently.
>>
>>But, you know, secret society. We'd met a good number of the other members
>>of the Circle.
>
> Exactly - the idea that all the evil they'd met was somehow linked
> seemed right to me. It made the whole of S5 hang together nicely
> (except E20 .... shudder).
I have no idea what happened with 'The Girl In Question'. Maybe they just
got stoned one evening...
>>You could take either, depending on what you want, I guess. 'Not Fade
>>Away' is the better capstone in my opinion, though.
>
> Yes, "Home" was always a bit unsatisfying to me. "Not Fade Away" has
> style and substance - and neatly captures the series that is "Angel".
I think 'Home' might be the better season finale, but 'Not Fade Away' is
better for the series. Maybe.
>>They came through. I can quibble, but when you get down to it, it was the
>>right ending.
>>
>>I just hope to god there aren't any movies.
>
> I agree ...... strange but true, I'm happy knowing that they went
> down fighting the good fight. No compromise, no tricks, just guts and
> determination.
It's not even that; I mean, I agree that they must have gone down, but
ending as it is captures them in that moment, in the fight, forever, and
*that's* the important point, to me. Any resolution would gut that.
(Although I suppose the obvious one is that the slayer army turns up, and
this turns out to be the battle that precipitates the Frayverse. I hope
not, though.)
Saskia
> George van Hal wrote:
>> I certainly don't hope this is it for alt.buffy.europe, but if it
>> turns out to be, I can only say it had a great run. We started out
>> with dutch and UK posters, had a whole stint in between where 'we'
>> (*waves* at Mattia, Saskia, and whoever else
*waves back with her Replimat RX-A-8472 [tm]* [1]
>> downloaders. Who would've ever thought. Guys, everyone, I'm very much
>> gonna miss this.
Yeah. Almost as much as I'll be missing the shows. I don't think I have
loved any show as much as I have loved Angel and Buffy.
>> Sorta stopped posting my comments with one or two
>> exceptions in the light of the long-ass messages that had always been
>> posted when I got 'round to watching the eps, but I never stopped
>> reading. Twas great.
Same here. The guys who post here now (hi guys) analyse the episodes so
well, which is cool to read, I just usually don't have much to add. I often
completely disagree with a lot of them, but fortunately there was always
Iain who was always expressing my thoughts to a t (cheers, Iain!)
> /me throws a shrimp cocktail for old times sake.
/me ducks and fires some smelly trouts in several general directions.
--
Saskia
[1] God, does this mean this is the end of the LRT's too? [2]
[2] and footnotes?
Helen H
wrote:
<snip>
>I have no idea what happened with 'The Girl In Question'. Maybe they just
>got stoned one evening...
LOL ... it's certainly one explanation!
>>>You could take either, depending on what you want, I guess. 'Not Fade
>>>Away' is the better capstone in my opinion, though.
>>
>> Yes, "Home" was always a bit unsatisfying to me. "Not Fade Away" has
>> style and substance - and neatly captures the series that is "Angel".
>
>I think 'Home' might be the better season finale, but 'Not Fade Away' is
>better for the series. Maybe.
I'd have been unsatisfied with Home as a series finale ... mind-wiping
everyone just to give Connor peace of mind wouldn't have worked for
me.
But "Not Fade Away" had class and grandeur about it.
<snip>
>>
>> I agree ...... strange but true, I'm happy knowing that they went
>> down fighting the good fight. No compromise, no tricks, just guts and
>> determination.
>
>It's not even that; I mean, I agree that they must have gone down, but
>ending as it is captures them in that moment, in the fight, forever, and
>*that's* the important point, to me. Any resolution would gut that.
Got you - and yes, maybe that's why it felt so right.
>(Although I suppose the obvious one is that the slayer army turns up, and
>this turns out to be the battle that precipitates the Frayverse. I hope
>not, though.)
Never been able to get into graphic novels so I know nothing about the
Frayverse but in my own mind I don't see the Slayer army coming to the
rescue (but then I do tend to separate the 2 worlds).
Helen
Iain Clark
wrote:
>Sieue zei:
>> George van Hal wrote:
>
>>> I certainly don't hope this is it for alt.buffy.europe, but if it
>>> turns out to be, I can only say it had a great run. We started out
>>> with dutch and UK posters, had a whole stint in between where 'we'
>>> (*waves* at Mattia, Saskia, and whoever else
>
>*waves back with her Replimat RX-A-8472 [tm]* [1]
>
>>> downloaders. Who would've ever thought. Guys, everyone, I'm very much
>>> gonna miss this.
>
:-(
>Yeah. Almost as much as I'll be missing the shows. I don't think I have
>loved any show as much as I have loved Angel and Buffy.
>
>>> Sorta stopped posting my comments with one or two
>>> exceptions in the light of the long-ass messages that had always been
>>> posted when I got 'round to watching the eps, but I never stopped
>>> reading. Twas great.
>
Plenty of loooong ass messages around these parts. :-)
>Same here. The guys who post here now (hi guys) analyse the episodes so
>well, which is cool to read, I just usually don't have much to add. I often
>completely disagree with a lot of them, but fortunately there was always
>Iain who was always expressing my thoughts to a t (cheers, Iain!)
>
Nice to know there was one person who agreed with me.... ;-) Cheers!
>> /me throws a shrimp cocktail for old times sake.
>
>/me ducks and fires some smelly trouts in several general directions.
Ow!
Iain
Tafka
2004 18:01:49 GMT:
Question time!
HOW THE HELL DOES HARMONY KNOW ABOUT ANGEL'S PLANS?
Glamour stops her knowing, despite W&H seemingly being empty anyway, in
Power Play.
Yes; they talk about it at Spike's openly but to assume she's following
him around constantly to find out what's going on is... a little stretched
given that WE'VE NO IDEA SHE IS.
Surely there _is_ a reason for it and not just "oh look; Hamilton needs to
be killed off so Angel does everyone and Connor comes back"?
Also;
POOR DED WES!
*criez*
-Tafka-
He'll flip ya. He'll flip ya for real.
Bettina Price
But she thinks she knows the secret plan because Angel told her that he
wanted to pay Archduke Whatsisname a visit, and could she distract
Hamilton?, so that she would betray him - that's why he had the resume
ready. It's not like we hear her tell Hamilton anything else (and no-one
tried to stop the others).
> Also;
>
> POOR DED WES!
> *criez*
>
You, too, eh?
bettina
George van Hal
Saskia wrote:
> Sieue zei:
>>George van Hal wrote:
Ooh, look at the interesting little tower...
> *waves back with her Replimat RX-A-8472 [tm]* [1]
Oh dear...[3]
Oh, and we'll probably always find a way to do LRT's[tm]. And, yes, [5]
too...
> Yeah. Almost as much as I'll be missing the shows. I don't think I have
> loved any show as much as I have loved Angel and Buffy.
Hey, same here [6] ;-)
> Same here.
[6]?
> The guys who post here now (hi guys) analyse the episodes so
> well, which is cool to read, I just usually don't have much to add. I often
> completely disagree with a lot of them, but fortunately there was always
> Iain who was always expressing my thoughts to a t (cheers, Iain!)
Yep, I know [6]. Thanks for that Iain. Although, I have to say, 5x21 was
the first and probably only time he had more issues with an episode than
I did ;-)
>>/me throws a shrimp cocktail for old times sake.
>
>
> /me ducks and fires some smelly trouts in several general directions.
/me wipes trout and shrimp from face
Grr..
/me opens bag of inflatable pufferfish[7]and starts a-throwing..
See Ya,
George
[1] God, does this mean this is the end of the LRT's too? [2]
[2] and footnotes?
[3] Not footnotes[4] again!
[4] These things[5]
[5] footnotes [4]
[6] big surprise
[7] they make your head go numb!
George van Hal
Iain Clark wrote:
>Saskia wrote:
>>Sieue zei:
>>>George van Hal wrote:
>>>>downloaders. Who would've ever thought. Guys, everyone, I'm very much
>>>>gonna miss this.
> :-(
I second that notion...
> Plenty of loooong ass messages around these parts. :-)
Yep, which is good. It makes for fun reading and RSI ;-)
> Nice to know there was one person who agreed with me.... ;-) Cheers!
Make that two ;-)
>>>/me throws a shrimp cocktail for old times sake.
>>
>>/me ducks and fires some smelly trouts in several general directions.
>
>
> Ow!
/me hands Iain some inflatable pufferfish
wanna retaliate?
See Ya,
George
Niall Harrison
> Question time!
Angel tells her he's about to pay a visit to Sebassis that he doesn't want
anyone, particularly Hamilton, to know about. Harmony smells an
opportunity.
I've been trawling ata and reading old spoiler posts. It's amazing how
wrong people can get things when they're working from casting sides. Also,
I think they moved the position of the act 2 break, and I think that made
the Hitman Lorne thing less clear than it would otherwise have been. Must
check this evening.
Mattia Valente
>> I also hope this group doesn't die, but if it's going to, let's have
>> it go
>> out with one hell of a thread ;-)
>
> Hey, you and me both. Didn't start it all those years ago to have it
> 'Fade Away' as they say. But I do guess this is it. It's done, over, no
> more Buffyverse. I could do a whole bit about how much a part of me had
> ended and all that stuff, and it would all be true, but this is neither
> the place nor time.
Word.
It's the end of my first real fandom. In fact, it's the end of anything
remotely resembling real fandom with regards to TV shows that are still
being made. Sure, we've got gems like 'Carnivale' to keep us going, but
this really, really is the end of an age. It's a weird, strange feeling.
On the upside, I've made friends I'll keep, and I do think the shows
will live on, and I'll definitely be keeping track (or at least trying
to) of where the writers go. We've still got the Firefly movie due to
come out, after all, and I really hope that the world of TV changes
enough to give the likes of Joss Whedon and Tim Minear the chance they
deserve at making another (few) quality, long-running TV shows (it's the
latter that worries me. Wonderfalls, Firefly and Miracles all showed
great promise, after all). Maybe on cable, eh?
Maybe it's the premature nostalgia talking, but it certainly feels, in
some ways, like the end of a golden age in TV. I haven't seen anything
else grace my screens that I think will really survive the test of time,
and the future's dim. Possibly the last great network SF show has just
burned out gloriously, leaving, to my mind, a big yawning gap. And no, I
don't feel 'Enterprise' can come anywhere near filling that, let alone
fun but fluffy material like 'Smallville'.
> I certainly don't hope this is it for alt.buffy.europe, but if it turns
> out to be, I can only say it had a great run. We started out with dutch
> and UK posters, had a whole stint in between where 'we' (*waves* at
> Mattia, Saskia, and whoever else might still be reading this) were all
> active and stuff and now we ended with UMTA downloaders. Who would've
> ever thought. Guys, everyone, I'm very much gonna miss this. Sorta
> stopped posting my comments with one or two exceptions in the light of
> the long-ass messages that had always been posted when I got 'round to
> watching the eps, but I never stopped reading. Twas great.
Word.
> I'm leaving the light on, and keeping some logs on the fire. Anyone
> willing to hang around: make yourself at home. We'll be here, stuck in
> this moment indefinately.
*sniff*
Mattia
Niall Harrison
> It's the end of my first real fandom. In fact, it's the end of anything
> remotely resembling real fandom with regards to TV shows that are still
> being made. Sure, we've got gems like 'Carnivale' to keep us going, but
> this really, really is the end of an age. It's a weird, strange feeling.
Yeah. I was talking to Tom about this over the weekend, a bit. I keep
thinking that maybe this was the last great fandom of usenet, and that
after this everything's going to move to places like livejournal for good.
After all, there's no _Carnivale_ group. Then I get depressed.
> On the upside, I've made friends I'll keep, and I do think the shows
> will live on, and I'll definitely be keeping track (or at least trying
> to) of where the writers go.
Probably with slightly less obsession than before, but yes. And keeping
track of future ME productions, obviously.
> Tim Minear the chance they
> deserve at making another (few) quality, long-running TV shows
Am I right in thinking his deal with Fox was for two shows? Was _Firefly_
one of them, and if so where's he going now?
> Maybe it's the premature nostalgia talking, but it certainly feels, in
> some ways, like the end of a golden age in TV.
Oh-ho. Singing my tune now, are we? You should be paying me royalties.
And on the topic of abe: I've been glad this group is here. It's helped
keep umta the spoiler-free place it is, and it's been fun in its own
right. Cheers, all.
Mattia Valente
> Previously, on alt.buffy.europe - Mattia Valente wrote:
>>It's the end of my first real fandom. In fact, it's the end of anything
>>remotely resembling real fandom with regards to TV shows that are still
>>being made. Sure, we've got gems like 'Carnivale' to keep us going, but
>>this really, really is the end of an age. It's a weird, strange feeling.
>
> Yeah. I was talking to Tom about this over the weekend, a bit. I keep
> thinking that maybe this was the last great fandom of usenet, and that
> after this everything's going to move to places like livejournal for good.
> After all, there's no _Carnivale_ group. Then I get depressed.
Heh. Might be true, I suppose. There are a few 'general fandom' type
groups (well, there's a dutch one anyway) that keep moving right along,
but unless you get a show that manages more than a single season,
realistically, more than 2 or 3 seasons, and has more than 12 episodes a
year, I don't think it's likely you'll manage to develop a thriving
usenet community for it.
On the other hand, I can't say I find LJ an ideal medium for discussing
genre TV. At least, it's not as effective in attracting outsiders. It
may be marginally better than web boards (ugh..), but it's just not
quite the same as the simplicity of plain text, the quick responses,
easy to use/reply/create threads and have people just kind of..show up.
>>On the upside, I've made friends I'll keep, and I do think the shows
>>will live on, and I'll definitely be keeping track (or at least trying
>>to) of where the writers go.
>
> Probably with slightly less obsession than before, but yes. And keeping
> track of future ME productions, obviously.
Duh.
>>Tim Minear the chance they
>>deserve at making another (few) quality, long-running TV shows
>
> Am I right in thinking his deal with Fox was for two shows? Was _Firefly_
> one of them, and if so where's he going now?
Uhh.....I can't recall. Maybe we could ask him :-)
Then again, this is the sort of thing I suppose his fansite has info on.
I just can't be bothered to look.
>>Maybe it's the premature nostalgia talking, but it certainly feels, in
>>some ways, like the end of a golden age in TV.
>
> Oh-ho. Singing my tune now, are we? You should be paying me royalties.
Pah. You invented the phrase 'Golden Age' now? And to be honest, I was
actually thinking along those same lines when That Entry[tm] showed up.
I mean, just look at the state of things. Just *look*. I have zero,
none, zip, nada shows I actually keep track of any more, so the question
of 'why' was pretty quickly answered.
> And on the topic of abe: I've been glad this group is here. It's helped
> keep umta the spoiler-free place it is, and it's been fun in its own
> right. Cheers, all.
Word.
Mattia
Saskia
> Saskia wrote:
>> Sieue zei:
>>>George van Hal wrote:
>
> Ooh, look at the interesting little tower...
Niiiiiiiiice! [10]
>> *waves back with her Replimat RX-A-8472 [tm]* [1]
>
> Oh dear...[3]
Mwuhahahahahahaaaaaa [8]
> Oh, and we'll probably always find a way to do LRT's[tm]. And, yes, [5]
> too...
Promise?
>> Yeah. Almost as much as I'll be missing the shows. I don't think I have
>> loved any show as much as I have loved Angel and Buffy.
>
> Hey, same here [6] ;-)
First, the internet happened, delivered a whole bunch of new friends, then
Star Trek happened, that got me quite a few new friends too and then
Buffy/Angel happened and I met you and Mattio.... [13]
>> Same here.
>
> [6]?
Who knows? I'm already lost [17]
>> The guys who post here now (hi guys) analyse the episodes so
>> well, which is cool to read, I just usually don't have much to add. I often
>> completely disagree with a lot of them, but fortunately there was always
>> Iain who was always expressing my thoughts to a t (cheers, Iain!)
>
> Yep, I know [6]. Thanks for that Iain. Although, I have to say, 5x21 was
> the first and probably only time he had more issues with an episode than
> I did ;-)
[16]
>>>/me throws a shrimp cocktail for old times sake.
>>
>> /me ducks and fires some smelly trouts in several general directions.
>
> /me wipes trout and shrimp from face
You can wipe off the fish but you can't wipe off the smell. Ewwwwww you
stink!!
> Grr..
uh-oh.... [9]
> /me opens bag of inflatable pufferfish[7]and starts a-throwing..
Ahhhhhh not the pufferfish!! Mattiaaaaaa he stole your pufferfish!! [18]
/me transfers maximum power to the shields and starts firing gross looking
slimy octopuses. [15]
And, just in case....
/me takes the little credibility left and sends it to mattio [14]
-
Saskia
[1] God, does this mean this is the end of the LRT's too? [2]
[2] and footnotes?
[3] Not footnotes[4] again!
[4] These things[5]
[5] footnotes [4]
[6] big surprise
[7] they make your head go numb!
[8] Ooooooh it's evil laughter!!! [11]
[9] scared now [17]
[10] Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuue!
[11] anyone feeling nostalgic yet?
[12] hey look Iain, you made the footnotes!! [4]
[13] um, still trying to figure out how that last event is good news [15]
[14] I *know*, he managed to rebuild some of it! [19]
[15] mwuhahahahahaaaa [8]
[16] Iain Rocks! [12]
[17] where's my mummy?
[18] *Again*!!
[19] Amaaaaaazing {20]
[20] :-PP [21]
[21] The Evil Mutated Two Tongued Creature [tm] !!
kim
> There are a few 'general fandom' type
>groups (well, there's a dutch one anyway) that keep moving right along
Checkout uk.media.tv.sf.startrek
It's full of genre postings (including Angel) and there are many Dutch posters
like us but whatever you do don't mention 'Andromeda'. For some reason this is
seen as the worst kind of trolling and is absolutely unforgivable. No one will
tell me why?
BTW I apologise for calling you a woman in umta, it was a genuine mistake.
(kim)
George van Hal
kim wrote:
> Mattia Valente wrote:-
> BTW I apologise for calling you a woman in umta, it was a genuine mistake.
LOL, we all call Mattia a woman from time to time, and we all start out
thinking he is one. So I guess he'll be fine by it..
See Ya,
George "genuinly surprised when he found out M. was a dude" van Hal ;-)
Niall Harrison
> Niall Harrison wrote:
>> Previously, on alt.buffy.europe - Mattia Valente wrote:
>>>It's the end of my first real fandom. In fact, it's the end of anything
>>>remotely resembling real fandom with regards to TV shows that are still
>>>being made.
>>
>> Yeah. I was talking to Tom about this over the weekend, a bit. I keep
>> thinking that maybe this was the last great fandom of usenet, and that
>> after this everything's going to move to places like livejournal for good.
>> After all, there's no _Carnivale_ group. Then I get depressed.
>
> Heh. Might be true, I suppose. There are a few 'general fandom' type
> groups (well, there's a dutch one anyway)
Also rec.arts.sf.tv, although that can be variable in quality. And
uk.media.tv.sf.startrek if you don't mind being relentlessly positive
about everything. ;-)
In other news, Lord Usher hasn't posted anything since the finale aired. I
really want to know what he thought of it! Last of the ata greats, he
was...
> that keep moving right along,
> but unless you get a show that manages more than a single season,
> realistically, more than 2 or 3 seasons, and has more than 12 episodes a
> year, I don't think it's likely you'll manage to develop a thriving
> usenet community for it.
Yeah, I tend to agree.
> On the other hand, I can't say I find LJ an ideal medium for discussing
> genre TV.
Oh, hell no. It has all sorts of problems as a discussion medium.
>>>Tim Minear the chance they
>>>deserve at making another (few) quality, long-running TV shows
>>
>> Am I right in thinking his deal with Fox was for two shows? Was _Firefly_
>> one of them, and if so where's he going now?
>
> Uhh.....I can't recall. Maybe we could ask him :-)
Well, couldn't hurt, I guess. Maybe we can get him to delurk in umta one
more time, when the finale airs? :)
> Then again, this is the sort of thing I suppose his fansite has info on.
> I just can't be bothered to look.
Nothing obvious there at the moment, although a couple of radio spots I
haven't listened to.
>>>Maybe it's the premature nostalgia talking, but it certainly feels, in
>>>some ways, like the end of a golden age in TV.
>>
>> Oh-ho. Singing my tune now, are we? You should be paying me royalties.
>
> Pah. You invented the phrase 'Golden Age' now?
No, I just think I wrote a long rambling post about the end of it. :-p
> And to be honest, I was
> actually thinking along those same lines when That Entry[tm] showed up.
> I mean, just look at the state of things. Just *look*.
:-/
> I have zero, none, zip, nada shows I actually keep track of any more,
> so the question of 'why' was pretty quickly answered.
_Carnivale_! Although not until '05...
And I'm still watching _Smallville_. And _The West Wing_. And _24_. Just
not in a crazy fan way.
Niall
--
Verbing weirds langauge.
Mattia Valente
> Mattia Valente wrote:-
>>There are a few 'general fandom' type
>>groups (well, there's a dutch one anyway) that keep moving right along
>
> Checkout uk.media.tv.sf.startrek
Do I have to? There be Enterprise fans in there...
> It's full of genre postings (including Angel) and there are many Dutch posters
> like us but whatever you do don't mention 'Andromeda'. For some reason this is
> seen as the worst kind of trolling and is absolutely unforgivable. No one will
> tell me why?
Because, it's, uh, shit? Or something. Probably just one of those things.
> BTW I apologise for calling you a woman in umta, it was a genuine mistake.
One often made. So I don't tend to notice.
Mattia
Mattia Valente
>
>
> kim wrote:
>
>> Mattia Valente wrote:-
>
>
>> BTW I apologise for calling you a woman in umta, it was a genuine
>> mistake.
>
>
> LOL, we all call Mattia a woman from time to time, and we all start out
> thinking he is one. So I guess he'll be fine by it..
And then you realize your mistakes and cower in fear.
> See Ya,
> George "genuinly surprised when he found out M. was a dude" van Hal ;-)
Yeah. I'm so manlier than you, though. Totally.
Mattia
Mattia Valente
> Previously, on alt.buffy.europe - Mattia Valente wrote:
>>Heh. Might be true, I suppose. There are a few 'general fandom' type
>>groups (well, there's a dutch one anyway)
>
> Also rec.arts.sf.tv, although that can be variable in quality. And
> uk.media.tv.sf.startrek if you don't mind being relentlessly positive
> about everything. ;-)
Heh. The problem I have with RAST is that it's so...big. I like reading
every post in a newsgroup, and keeping up to date with it all, but a
group that has such a varying mix of stuff can be fairly frustrating. I
read it on and off.
And umtss is general SF fandom now? Eh? And also, half the fun of usenet
is bitching! Well, up to a point. A point far, far below the alt.*
groups that aren't this one.
> In other news, Lord Usher hasn't posted anything since the finale aired. I
> really want to know what he thought of it! Last of the ata greats, he
> was...
Heh. Well, here's hopin' then. I never really liked ata much, though;
too busy, too dangerous (spoilers), too much wank, hard to get people to
reply to you. But amusing once in a while.
>>that keep moving right along,
>>but unless you get a show that manages more than a single season,
>>realistically, more than 2 or 3 seasons, and has more than 12 episodes a
>>year, I don't think it's likely you'll manage to develop a thriving
>>usenet community for it.
>
> Yeah, I tend to agree.
I mean, there's a firefly newsgroup, but c'mon. Only so much you can do
with it.
>>On the other hand, I can't say I find LJ an ideal medium for discussing
>>genre TV.
>
> Oh, hell no. It has all sorts of problems as a discussion medium.
Works fine if you want to discuss something specific with a specific
bunch of people. And don't mind being shackled by the oh-so-small
characters per reply figure.
>>>>Tim Minear the chance they
>>>>deserve at making another (few) quality, long-running TV shows
>>>
>>>Am I right in thinking his deal with Fox was for two shows? Was _Firefly_
>>>one of them, and if so where's he going now?
>>
>>Uhh.....I can't recall. Maybe we could ask him :-)
>
> Well, couldn't hurt, I guess. Maybe we can get him to delurk in umta one
> more time, when the finale airs? :)
Possibly. If he's still reading. Big shoutout would be a fitting way to
'end' it all, don't you think?
>>Then again, this is the sort of thing I suppose his fansite has info on.
>>I just can't be bothered to look.
>
> Nothing obvious there at the moment, although a couple of radio spots I
> haven't listened to.
Ah. Hmm.
>>>>Maybe it's the premature nostalgia talking, but it certainly feels, in
>>>>some ways, like the end of a golden age in TV.
>>>
>>>Oh-ho. Singing my tune now, are we? You should be paying me royalties.
>>
>>Pah. You invented the phrase 'Golden Age' now?
>
> No, I just think I wrote a long rambling post about the end of it. :-p
You did. And freakishly STOLE MY THOUGHTS while doing it, I might add.
Did I even add a 'm2' to that one? 'cause it didn't need a whole lot more.
>>And to be honest, I was
>>actually thinking along those same lines when That Entry[tm] showed up.
>>I mean, just look at the state of things. Just *look*.
>
> :-/
Ok, maybe we should focus on the pretty. Look! Carnivale!
>>I have zero, none, zip, nada shows I actually keep track of any more,
>>so the question of 'why' was pretty quickly answered.
>
> _Carnivale_! Although not until '05...
Well, quite. I meant in a real-time sense, I have no clue whether I'll
be using my broadband connection all that much next year. And new
Carnivale only in 2005? Bastards!
> And I'm still watching _Smallville_. And _The West Wing_. And _24_. Just
> not in a crazy fan way.
Well, I'm way, way behind on 'The West Wing' (need the S3 DVDs), and I
missed a bunch of '24' eps, so I'm waiting for the DVD set so I can sit
down and just watch it all straight through, properly. I may take up
'Smallville' again since, well...Lex. I like the show, but too much was
going on, and I couldn't be bothered to chase it down.
Mattia
Sieue
> George van Hal zei:
>> Saskia wrote:
>>> Sieue zei:
>>>> George van Hal wrote:
>>
>> Ooh, look at the interesting little tower...
>
> Niiiiiiiiice! [10]
Yes, yes. Pretty tower. sorry I snipped that one way back when...
>
>>> *waves back with her Replimat RX-A-8472 [tm]* [1]
>>
>> Oh dear...[3]
>
> Mwuhahahahahahaaaaaa [8]
/me hides
>
>> Oh, and we'll probably always find a way to do LRT's[tm]. And, yes,
>> [5] too...
>
> Promise?
No more footnotes! I'm making a stand [22]
>
>>> Yeah. Almost as much as I'll be missing the shows. I don't think I
>>> have loved any show as much as I have loved Angel and Buffy.
>>
>> Hey, same here [6] ;-)
>
> First, the internet happened, delivered a whole bunch of new friends,
> then Star Trek happened, that got me quite a few new friends too and
> then Buffy/Angel happened and I met you and Mattio.... [13]
>
Buffy/Angel, UMTA, Mattio, ABE, IRC, LJ. blimey what a long journey.
>>> Same here.
>>
>> [6]?
>
> Who knows? I'm already lost [17]
Me too (aol)
>
>>> The guys who post here now (hi guys) analyse the episodes so
>>> well, which is cool to read, I just usually don't have much to add.
>>> I often completely disagree with a lot of them, but fortunately
>>> there was always Iain who was always expressing my thoughts to a t
>>> (cheers, Iain!)
>>
>> Yep, I know [6]. Thanks for that Iain. Although, I have to say, 5x21
>> was the first and probably only time he had more issues with an
>> episode than I did ;-)
>
> [16]
>
>>>> /me throws a shrimp cocktail for old times sake.
>>>
>>> /me ducks and fires some smelly trouts in several general
>>> directions.
>>
>> /me wipes trout and shrimp from face
>
> You can wipe off the fish but you can't wipe off the smell. Ewwwwww
> you stink!!
>
>> Grr..
>
> uh-oh.... [9]
Oops
>
>> /me opens bag of inflatable pufferfish[7]and starts a-throwing..
>
> Ahhhhhh not the pufferfish!! Mattiaaaaaa he stole your pufferfish!!
> [18]
>
> /me transfers maximum power to the shields and starts firing gross
> looking slimy octopuses. [15]
>
> And, just in case....
>
> /me takes the little credibility left and sends it to mattio [14]
He'll need that credibility. Have you noticed how he hasn't contributed
yet? Dutch foo! that he is.
/me fires up the teleport...
Sue
p.s. speak to Matto about 1st week of August. We'll speak no more about it
here.
[1] God, does this mean this is the end of the LRT's too? [2]
[2] and footnotes?
[3] Not footnotes[4] again!
[4] These things[5]
[5] footnotes [4]
[6] big surprise
[7] they make your head go numb!
[8] Ooooooh it's evil laughter!!! [11]
[9] scared now [17]
[10] Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuue!
[11] anyone feeling nostalgic yet?
[12] hey look Iain, you made the footnotes!! [4]
[13] um, still trying to figure out how that last event is good news
[15] [14] I *know*, he managed to rebuild some of it! [19]
[15] mwuhahahahahaaaa [8]
[16] Iain Rocks! [12]
[17] where's my mummy?
[18] *Again*!!
[19] Amaaaaaazing {20]
[20] :-PP [21]
[21] The Evil Mutated Two Tongued Creature [tm] !!
[22] Ooops
--
Sue H
*..· ???)) -:|:-
?.·? .·???))
((??.·? .·? -:|:- Let there be goats...
-:|:- ((??.·?*
kim
>> It's full of genre postings (including Angel) and there are many Dutch
>posters
>> like us but whatever you do don't mention 'Andromeda'. For some reason this
>is
>> seen as the worst kind of trolling and is absolutely unforgivable. No one
>will
>> tell me why?
>
>Because, it's, uh, shit? Or something. Probably just one of those things.
There are much worse programmes being discussed in umtss. Trance Gemini is
sublimely shaggable and I have a Dutch half-sister looks and talks just like
the AI.
(kim)
kim
>And umtss is general SF fandom now? Eh?
Just keep telling yourself "Scott Bakula is a fine actor, Scott Bakula is a
fine actor" and you'll end up believing it. Alex Peckover does.
>And also, half the fun of usenet is bitching!
There is no shortage of bitching in umtss
(kim)
Iain Clark
<hal0...@planet.nl> wrote:
>
>Iain Clark wrote:
> >Saskia wrote:
>>>Sieue zei:
>>>>/me throws a shrimp cocktail for old times sake.
>>>
>>>/me ducks and fires some smelly trouts in several general directions.
>
>/me hands Iain some inflatable pufferfish
>
>wanna retaliate?
>
Er, would it be bad if I spiked myself in the nose trying to inflate a
pufferfish?
(...actually, in some countries that may be a crime.)
Iain
Iain Clark
wrote:
>
>[1] God, does this mean this is the end of the LRT's too? [2]
>[2] and footnotes?
>[3] Not footnotes[4] again!
>[4] These things[5]
>[5] footnotes [4]
>[6] big surprise
>[7] they make your head go numb!
>[8] Ooooooh it's evil laughter!!! [11]
>[9] scared now [17]
>[10] Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuue!
>[11] anyone feeling nostalgic yet?
>[12] hey look Iain, you made the footnotes!! [4]
>[13] um, still trying to figure out how that last event is good news [15]
>[14] I *know*, he managed to rebuild some of it! [19]
>[15] mwuhahahahahaaaa [8]
>[16] Iain Rocks! [12]
>[17] where's my mummy?
>[18] *Again*!!
>[19] Amaaaaaazing {20]
>[20] :-PP [21]
>[21] The Evil Mutated Two Tongued Creature [tm] !!
>
LOL. My brain! My brain hurts!
Iain
Iain Clark
<mae.v...@std.vu.nl> wrote:
>Niall Harrison wrote:
>> Previously, on alt.buffy.europe - Mattia Valente wrote:
>>>Niall Harrison wrote:
>Ok, maybe we should focus on the pretty. Look! Carnivale!
>
>>>I have zero, none, zip, nada shows I actually keep track of any more,
>>>so the question of 'why' was pretty quickly answered.
>>
>> _Carnivale_! Although not until '05...
>
>Well, quite. I meant in a real-time sense, I have no clue whether I'll
>be using my broadband connection all that much next year. And new
>Carnivale only in 2005? Bastards!
>
Booo! Hope it's as good without Ron Moore at the helm. I'm not sure
he made the right choice plumping for Battlestar Galactica over
Carnivale, even though the BG pilot was better than I expected.
>> And I'm still watching _Smallville_. And _The West Wing_. And _24_. Just
>> not in a crazy fan way.
>
>Well, I'm way, way behind on 'The West Wing' (need the S3 DVDs), and I
>missed a bunch of '24' eps, so I'm waiting for the DVD set so I can sit
>down and just watch it all straight through, properly.
TWW is worth crazy fandom. :-) Since Sorkin left, my devotion to the
show has definitely stepped down a notch, but the Sorkin-free Season 5
got past its early wobbles and ended up being more than solid. Just
not spectacular.
> I may take up
>'Smallville' again since, well...Lex. I like the show, but too much was
>going on, and I couldn't be bothered to chase it down.
>
Lexx bored me senseless, unfortunately. I may get back into
Smallville - I still catch the odd episode from time to time, but I
just don't have any respect for it. Which is saying something
considering I even respect Alias a little, and that's as superficial
as they come. :-)
TBH, every time a big show finishes I feel like I'll never love again
(*sob*) but usually something sneaks up on me. Often the last thing I
expect.
After B5 finished I thought that was it for quality TV. I never
thought Farscape would grab my attention based on the early episodes,
but somehow it turned out great (okay, not true-obsession great, but
very good indeed).
And Buffy / Angel went from enjoyable, to earning my respect, to
earning my devotion without me even noticing. :-) Who'd have thought
it?
Iain
George van Hal
You think this is bad? Check out this baby from the old days:
http://makeashorterlink.com/?J17724568
:-p
The worst thing is that we started referring to those footnotes in so
many messages that I knew them by heart after a while. We even started
using 'em in IRC at some point ;-)
See Ya,
George
Who *is* gonna reply to some of these other messages, just waiting for
all my ordered products from LRT[tm] inc. :-p
pikelet
news:10853316...@urchin.earth.li:
> Previously, on alt.buffy.europe - Andrew Cameron wrote:
> For me, the only misstep on this side of things was the retcon of the
> Angel/Cordy kiss. You can argue that we know the visions are passed on
> by a loving kiss, so it's guessable, but they either needed to put the
> light show in 'You're Welcome' (and leave us confused for 10 episodes)
Oh, sure, we'd have been confused.
Oh, wait, no, nobody would have been confused about something so
bleedin' obvious as a light show during a snog, when we've already seen
it happen twice.
> or to leave it out of the flashback here (and let us figure out the
> similarity to the Doyle/Cordy transition for ourselves). Otherwise, I
> think it actually hangs together quite well.
To be honest, it didn't bother me. Not even a *tiny* bit. And it's far
less crass than the 'elevator' in 'Reprise'.
Tim
Tafka
11:54:53 +0100:
Ooooh, fiesty are we? :)
-Tafka-
Gotta Lotta Tafka
Niall Harrison
Maybe 'expectant' would have been more appropriate than 'confused'. We
would have been left waiting for visions that never seemed to come.
>> or to leave it out of the flashback here (and let us figure out the
>> similarity to the Doyle/Cordy transition for ourselves). Otherwise, I
>> think it actually hangs together quite well.
>
> To be honest, it didn't bother me. Not even a *tiny* bit. And it's far
> less crass than the 'elevator' in 'Reprise'.
I'm not sure I see the comparison...