The I in team [spoilers]
george van hal
Retuned from the introduction weekend I helped organise on sunday. Went
to dinner with everyone in the evening so I sorta missed Buffy. Just saw
the tape of "The I in team" and decided to post my review anyways, even
though most of this stuff has probably been said already.....
I'll probably read the other I in Team posts later today....anyways on
with the post:
Spoilers for Buffy s4, The I in Team
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Ok, who would've expected it? This was an Initiative/Riley centered ep
and it didn't suck! It was even one of the best eps I've seen this
season. Color me stunned!!
Some quick comments (as I'm sure most has been said before):
This ep started off nicely with some fun interactions. The main theme of
the desintegration of the scoobygang is still going strong, only now it
was handled nicely, it seemed realistic and as such didn't bother me. It
even added to the enjoyment of the ep.
The Initiative and Walsh turn out to be the main evil this season.
Coolness. I'd been spoiled for this (as I am for most of this season),
but I expected this turn would suck. It didn't. Finally the storyline is
improving and the arc is gaining tension and even involvement.
The thing that surprised me most about this ep was Riley, though. He
didn't bother me one bit. He even added to the goodness. I mean, up till
this point Riley deserved the title Boremeister [tm] all the way. He
still does, but now he does in a good way. Perhaps they've finally hit
the right tone in characterising the guy. He seemed more interesting and
even became sympathetic when he turned away from professor Walsh (The
EBMOD [tm] really turned out to deserve her nickname). It'll be
interesting to see what'll happen when he has to face his friends in the
Initiative.
And than there was Adam. "The biblical thing" as I refered to it up till
this point. He's supposed to suck but we can't really judge atm. He
killed Prof. Walsh though, which was an interesting twist......
Also, we saw some more Tara and Willow interaction. I'm starting to like
Tara more with every ep I see her. She's a bit of a mystery and thats
nice. I wonder why Willow is keeping her friendship with Tara secret
from Buffy though. That doesn't seem to make any sense.
All in all I really enjoyed this ep. Finally we had an ep again this
season that wasn't all about humor. It wasn't a comedy. There was
tension and drama. It was all good. A great step up from the previous
two eps and a nice point to start a new Roll [tm].
Next weeks ep'll prove it that will be the case....
I'll leave you with my rating of 8/10......
See Ya,
George
Who's looking forward to the Angel ep tonight. Only bad thing is I wont
be discussing it here. Ah well.....
Mattia Valente
>
> Hi guys :-)
> Retuned from the introduction weekend I helped organise on sunday. Went
> to dinner with everyone in the evening so I sorta missed Buffy. Just saw
> the tape of "The I in team" and decided to post my review anyways, even
> though most of this stuff has probably been said already.....
Maybe, maybe not. We shall see. Since I compulsively (sort of) answer
posts, I'll bite.
> I'll probably read the other I in Team posts later today....anyways on
> with the post:
Wohoo!
> Spoilers for Buffy s4, The I in Team
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George? Aren't you forgetting something? A tradmark line type thingy?
Remedy the situation quickly! I'm getting worried...
> Ok, who would've expected it? This was an Initiative/Riley centered ep
> and it didn't suck! It was even one of the best eps I've seen this
> season. Color me stunned!!
I *know*. Everything I was hearing was "that ep sucks bigtime", etc.
etc. etc. Pleasantly surprised at the quality of this ep. I hope the eps
that follow will match and exceed it in greatness (the next one is
supposed to suck, but hey, that's what they said about this one ;-) Of
course, I still think WaH, Hush and Somthing Blue beat it. By a margin,
though, and each ep is of a very different character.
> Some quick comments (as I'm sure most has been said before):
hehe..
> This ep started off nicely with some fun interactions. The main theme of
> the desintegration of the scoobygang is still going strong, only now it
> was handled nicely, it seemed realistic and as such didn't bother me. It
> even added to the enjoyment of the ep.
Right. Not as weirdly done as in some past episodes (especially the
Giles angle and the Willow angel. Willow angle was taken care of very
nicely.)
> The Initiative and Walsh turn out to be the main evil this season.
> Coolness. I'd been spoiled for this (as I am for most of this season),
> but I expected this turn would suck. It didn't. Finally the storyline is
> improving and the arc is gaining tension and even involvement.
Wohoo! All of what you have said is indeed true. We finally *have* a
storyarc, although as I said in another post, Adam is less scary than
Walsh was(?). SAR: a slight return. I really want to see where the
allegiances go, what Adam is for and what he's going to do, stuff like
that. The season is picking up after all, it seems :-)
> The thing that surprised me most about this ep was Riley, though. He
> didn't bother me one bit. He even added to the goodness. I mean, up till
> this point Riley deserved the title Boremeister [tm] all the way. He
> still does, but now he does in a good way. Perhaps they've finally hit
> the right tone in characterising the guy.
All too true! We finally discover that Riley's boringness is partly the
Military's fault (trained not to ask questions, blah blah blah.), and
that he's not too bad after all. Very interesting, still not really,
though. He smiles a little too much ;-)
> He seemed more interesting and
> even became sympathetic when he turned away from professor Walsh (The
> EBMOD [tm] really turned out to deserve her nickname). It'll be
> interesting to see what'll happen when he has to face his friends in the
> Initiative.
Yes. I'm actually looking forward to that quite a bit. Never thought I'd
actually say that about a plot development centred mainly on Riley :-)
> And than there was Adam. "The biblical thing" as I refered to it up till
> this point. He's supposed to suck but we can't really judge atm. He
> killed Prof. Walsh though, which was an interesting twist......
Bad twist, IMHO. Walsh was the more interesting multifaceted villain.
Adam just looks, well, stupid. Frankenstein meets the UniSol. Of course,
we haven't seen much of him so far, but I'm very sceptical. Letting
Walsh turn evil and killing her off all in one ep is a waste, I think at
this point (I think she's dead. That spikey thing looked like it went
through her heart.)
> Also, we saw some more Tara and Willow interaction. I'm starting to like
> Tara more with every ep I see her. She's a bit of a mystery and thats
> nice. I wonder why Willow is keeping her friendship with Tara secret
> from Buffy though. That doesn't seem to make any sense.
No indeed. Tara could be just a little too shy though. Needs some
lessons in self-confindence. Still, like lots :-)
> All in all I really enjoyed this ep. Finally we had an ep again this
> season that wasn't all about humor. It wasn't a comedy. There was
> tension and drama. It was all good. A great step up from the previous
> two eps and a nice point to start a new Roll [tm].
Hope so. We shall see.
> Next weeks ep'll prove it that will be the case....
Right. That one got really bad reviews though (but then this one wasn't
considered stellar. Dunno why, actually..)
> I'll leave you with my rating of 8/10......
Wow! That's a high score! I'm sticking 7.5/10 after 2 watchings. I'm
very careful with grades and I don't give out high scores very easily.
Its a tough call thoug, between 7.5 and 8...
> Who's looking forward to the Angel ep tonight. Only bad thing is I wont
> be discussing it here. Ah well.....
Why? Just go for it! You've got Peter, Fuzzy and Andrea at least...of
course, I do hope you will discuss it in 5 weeks time again with me, JB,
Saskia and P@rick...you can do that, right?
Mattia
ReplyMeister[tm]
Still wrestling with this 5x5 thing....
Rob
george van hal <hal0...@wxs.nl> schreef in berichtnieuws
39C657F7...@wxs.nl...
> Hi guys :-)
> Retuned from the introduction weekend I helped organise on sunday. Went
> to dinner with everyone in the evening so I sorta missed Buffy. Just saw
> the tape of "The I in team" and decided to post my review anyways, even
> though most of this stuff has probably been said already.....
> with the post:
>
> s
> p
> o
> i
> l
> e
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> Also, we saw some more Tara and Willow interaction. I'm starting to like
> Tara more with every ep I see her. She's a bit of a mystery and thats
> nice. I wonder why Willow is keeping her friendship with Tara secret
> from Buffy though. That doesn't seem to make any sense.
>
The way the interaction between the two is portrayed, it seems pretty
obvious that their friendship will evolve into something *very* close. I
mean, we all remember vamp Willow in Doppelgängland. Ozz is gone and the
scoobygang is falling apart. Willow is lonely. Also there is a lot of
emphasis on Willow and Tara touching hands. They act all nervous and cute
towards the other. (The scene where Tara wanted to give Willow that puppet
eye thing, or whatever). They were together all night. (Probably just
talking, but still...) Let's face it, they act like two teenagers in love.
If this is really the case this would explain why Willow is being secretive
about her friendship with Tara. She probably doesn't want to admit to
herself where this is going (again remember the cage scene in
Doppelgängland), but she does know that she doesn't want to stop it. If
she can't admit it to herself than she can definitely not admit it to
anybody else. Deep down she obviously does know she's actually a freak
(no, not my opinion, but let's not forget this is an American show. They
often see things differently than for instance Dutch). Willow feels that
if she would introduce Tara now as a regular friend, she would not be able
to date her later because people will notice it and she fears being judged.
So the best thing seems to be to hide her relationship with Tara all
together in the present, because pretending something isn't there seems
better than eventually having to lie about it, later on. (Or worse, it
might even stop things from happening all together). So in short, Willow
is lying now to avoid having to lie about being "abnormal" later.
Very interesting in my opinion.
Any comments ?
Bye, Rob
P@rick
> The way the interaction between the two is portrayed, it seems pretty
> obvious that their friendship will evolve into something *very* close. I
> mean, we all remember vamp Willow in Doppelgängland.
Vaguely ;o)
Ozz is gone and the
> scoobygang is falling apart. Willow is lonely. Also there is a lot of
> emphasis on Willow and Tara touching hands./
Usually when they are casting a spell
/ They act all nervous and cute
> towards the other. (The scene where Tara wanted to give Willow that
puppet
> eye thing, or whatever). They were together all night. (Probably just
> talking, but still...) Let's face it, they act like two teenagers in
love.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but one could look at it another way. Tara is a
*very* shy girl, who has obviously great difficulty making friends. She
probably can't imagine that someone would be interested in her. Willow
hasn't really made new friends since Buffy and Oz. And she still isn't Miss
Socialize Sunnydale. Tara is already very happy with Willow, and Willow
might not know how to behave to Tara's worshipping. She has never been in
that role before.
But again, I'm not saying you're wrong. The scenes between Tara and Willow
could be interpreted as two girls falling in love. Especially when we take
the hint from DGL literally. And the timing is right. The emotional reak up
with Oz might have made her more sensitive to her other persuasion. Not
saying that it always works like that with bisexual people though. But I can
imagine this being the case with Willow.
> If this is really the case this would explain why Willow is being
secretive
> about her friendship with Tara. She probably doesn't want to admit to
> herself where this is going (again remember the cage scene in
> Doppelgängland), but she does know that she doesn't want to stop it. If
> she can't admit it to herself than she can definitely not admit it to
> anybody else./
I can imagine Willow doesn't really know how to interpret her feelings. And
she has no one else to talk to about them either. She doesn't want to make
things even more complicated by introducing Tara to the Scooby gang. She
would feel even more awkward with her feelings for and in her behaviour
towards Tara when the others are around. She might be afraid the others will
notice something.
> Willow feels that
> if she would introduce Tara now as a regular friend, she would not be able
> to date her later because people will notice it and she fears being
judged.
Well, people are going to notice one way or another, and judge her or not.
Hiding Tara at first and introducing her later doesn't make that any
different. Imagine how the others would react to an "This is Tara. And oh
yeah, I'm having a relationship with her". She can't hide Tara forever.
> So the best thing seems to be to hide her relationship with Tara all
> together in the present, because pretending something isn't there seems
> better than eventually having to lie about it, later on. (Or worse, it
> might even stop things from happening all together)./
When Willow isn't sure about her feelings yet, introducing Tara now and
saying she's fallen in love with her later isn't exactly lying. I think her
friends would understand that.
/ So in short, Willow
> is lying now to avoid having to lie about being "abnormal" later.
> Very interesting in my opinion.
> Any comments ?
Yeah. Why don't you just write bisexual instead of abnormal. It seems more
fitting in the context.
Bye, Patrick
Rob
P@rick <P.J.Mee...@students.fss.VampWillow.uu.nl> schreef in
berichtnieuws 8qa7v3$mvj$6...@news.surfnet.nl...
> > obvious that their friendship will evolve into something *very* close.
I
> > mean, we all remember vamp Willow in Doppelgängland.
>
>
Willow: (appalled) It's horrible! That's me as a vampire? (Angel closes
the door) I'm so evil and... skanky. (aside to Buffy, worried) And I
think I'm kinda gay.
Buffy: (reassuringly) Willow, just remember, a vampire's personality
has nothing to do with the person it was.
Angel: (without thinking) Well, actually... (gets a look from Buffy)
That's a good point.
> Ozz is gone and the
> > scoobygang is falling apart. Willow is lonely. Also there is a lot
of
> > emphasis on Willow and Tara touching hands./
>
> Usually when they are casting a spell
>
You are right. But I meant the way it is filmed. It seems to me that the
touching hands are a bit longer in filmed than they would be if other people
would be involved. But maybe I am imagining it.
> / They act all nervous and cute
> > towards the other. (The scene where Tara wanted to give Willow that
> puppet
> > eye thing, or whatever). They were together all night. (Probably
just
> > talking, but still...) Let's face it, they act like two teenagers in
> love.
>
> I'm not saying you're wrong, but one could look at it another way. Tara is
a
> *very* shy girl, who has obviously great difficulty making friends. She
> probably can't imagine that someone would be interested in her. Willow
> hasn't really made new friends since Buffy and Oz. And she still isn't
Miss
> Socialize Sunnydale. Tara is already very happy with Willow, and Willow
> might not know how to behave to Tara's worshipping. She has never been in
> that role before.
>
Quite possible. But I opt for my interpretation. Maybe just because I
think it would be an interesting turn.
> But again, I'm not saying you're wrong. The scenes between Tara and Willow
> could be interpreted as two girls falling in love. Especially when we take
> the hint from DGL literally. And the timing is right. The emotional reak
up
> with Oz might have made her more sensitive to her other persuasion. Not
> saying that it always works like that with bisexual people though. But I
can
> imagine this being the case with Willow.
>
Don't forget this is not reality but a tv series. Here it can work like
that if Joss wants it to.
>
> > If this is really the case this would explain why Willow is being
> secretive
> > about her friendship with Tara. She probably doesn't want to admit to
> > herself where this is going (again remember the cage scene in
> > Doppelgängland), but she does know that she doesn't want to stop it.
If
> > she can't admit it to herself than she can definitely not admit it to
> > anybody else./
>
> I can imagine Willow doesn't really know how to interpret her feelings.
And
> she has no one else to talk to about them either. She doesn't want to make
> things even more complicated by introducing Tara to the Scooby gang. She
> would feel even more awkward with her feelings for and in her behaviour
> towards Tara when the others are around. She might be afraid the others
will
> notice something.
>
> > Willow feels that
> > if she would introduce Tara now as a regular friend, she would not be
able
> > to date her later because people will notice it and she fears being
> judged.
>
> Well, people are going to notice one way or another, and judge her or not.
> Hiding Tara at first and introducing her later doesn't make that any
> different. Imagine how the others would react to an "This is Tara. And oh
> yeah, I'm having a relationship with her". She can't hide Tara forever.
>
Of course you're right. However I am not saying it is the clever thing to
do, but people often don't choose the most sensible thing to do. Sometimes
it seems a good idea to ignore there is a problem. Maybe it'll go away.
(Most of the time it doesn't).
> > So the best thing seems to be to hide her relationship with Tara all
> > together in the present, because pretending something isn't there seems
> > better than eventually having to lie about it, later on. (Or worse, it
> > might even stop things from happening all together)./
>
> When Willow isn't sure about her feelings yet, introducing Tara now and
> saying she's fallen in love with her later isn't exactly lying. I think
her
> friends would understand that.
I think too. But Willow might not be shure about that. Furthermore it is
possible that she doesn't even consider these things on a consious level.
Maybe she just goes with the flow without really thinking about it.
Possibly she doesn't even realise herself why she is being secretive.
>
> / So in short, Willow
> > is lying now to avoid having to lie about being "abnormal" later.
> > Very interesting in my opinion.
> > Any comments ?
>
> Yeah. Why don't you just write bisexual instead of abnormal. It seems more
> fitting in the context.
>
I didn't write abnormal. I wrote "abnormal". Mind the " ". I meant
that Willow possibly thinks people might think being bisexual is abnormal.
If she wouldn't worry about that she wouldn't have to be secretive about her
relationship with Tara.
It's the basis of my post. Willow who doesn't dare to admit (yet) to
herself and others that she is bisexual.
For the record : I *don't * think being gay or bisexual makes a person any
less.
Of course all this is pure speculation. We just have to wait and see what
happens.
Bye, Rob