RATT: Buffy 7ABB03 - 'Same Time, Same Place' [SPOILERS]
Mattia Valente
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Jane Espenson's first ep, and, once again, slightly more on the horrific
front than on the funny front.
I don't really know what to make of this, actually. I mean, we get
Willow back, but not really. We spend the ep in the 'Out of Mind, Out of
Sight' dimension with added selective incorporeality, and, well, hmm.
Good things: it's a pretty solid standalone avec character arc stuff.
We've got Willow's return, a pleasantly disquieting feel from the teaser
onwards, some division as to the how and the what of Willow (although,
overall, we've got lots of easy acceptance. Dawn's possible
'confrontation' has been saved up for some other day, though.)
Plenty of continuity references: Yellow Crayon, making fun thereof, Same
'ole infamous 'sexual tension demon locating spell' (*sigh*...I miss
Tara. And, well, I'm going to interpret the flamey goodness as
foreshadowing.), more obsession about the flaying (sheesh, people.
Thanks. It was gross enough the first time.) Only thing missing was a
'marcie' ref, really. Would've worked. But then, Espenson's only been on
board since, what, season 3?
The episode felt nice, but somehow didn't elicit much 'ooh aah'-age from
me, not like either of the previous episodes did. No arc stuff, no
killing young girl somewhere in the world wakeup call (which I was sort
of expecting..), minimal Spike (but very effective Spike. Great scene,
that.) and a, for a change, relatively interesting demon, albeit one who
met his end rather quickly and easily.
We did get some nicely eerie scenes, though.
Now, how Willow's going to get back into the group? We get to skip a lot
of it, which may be a good thing, since I'm quite sure we'll get more
'dealing' later, and angst is something we get anyway
Anya....is confusing. On the one hand, funny, helpful, but on the other
hand, what the heck does the demonness *mean* now? I mean, she's more
sensitive than she was *before* she became a Demon again. Yeesh.
Dawn is quite the investigator. Although her paralysis wasn't terribly
convincing at times. Oops. Amusing, sure. Most especially the 'falling
off the couch' throwaway gag.
Xander and Buffy....'her man'? Er, ok. Niall's theory that they may
become an 'item' is...I'm gonna try not to think about it. For now. Ahum.
OK, so, mostly I'm nattering on and on. So I'll give it a rest.
Bottom line, I quite like it, like the imagery, like the feel, like it
all, really, but somehow it's lacking a certain something. Mostly, I
think it's the cold letdown from the essentially 'arc' stuff to an
episode that has, well, none. No dealing at all with the 'Soul' issue
(Spike's or Anya's, I don't care). Much dancing about.
OTOH, our MotW was nicely scary looking, rather gross, and a bit freaky.
So yay on that count.
Mattia
--
"I wield only the power of death. Not syndication." - Tim Minear
Dave Emberton
news:3DA1F6EC...@std.vu.nl...
> RATT Time! Again!
Give us a chance! Still trying to catch up with Angel ;-)
Dave (suffering download stress).
Mattia Valente
> "Mattia Valente" <mae.v...@std.vu.nl> wrote in message
> news:3DA1F6EC...@std.vu.nl...
>
>>RATT Time! Again!
>
> Give us a chance! Still trying to catch up with Angel ;-)
Mwah hah hah...
> Dave (suffering download stress).
I'm suffering from too much to choose from stress.
dieter
@std.vu.nl:
Season seven has not dissapointed me yet :) No real arc stuff but I liked
it a bunch.
> Good things: it's a pretty solid standalone avec character arc stuff.
> We've got Willow's return, a pleasantly disquieting feel from the
teaser
Yep, here ends the "we're gonna have a dead girl-teaser every week"-
theory
> onwards, some division as to the how and the what of Willow (although,
> overall, we've got lots of easy acceptance. Dawn's possible
> 'confrontation' has been saved up for some other day, though.)
Yes, I expect that to go less smooth than what we just saw.
> Plenty of continuity references: Yellow Crayon, making fun thereof,
Funny. A very strong scene last season, now making fun of it and it works
pretty good.
Same
> 'ole infamous 'sexual tension demon locating spell' (*sigh*...I miss
> Tara. And, well, I'm going to interpret the flamey goodness as
> foreshadowing.), more obsession about the flaying (sheesh, people.
> Thanks. It was gross enough the first time.) Only thing missing was a
> 'marcie' ref, really. Would've worked. But then, Espenson's only been
on
> board since, what, season 3?
Well, if you don't know that...I sure don't. Right now I could't mention
another Espenson ep if you paid me.
>
> The episode felt nice, but somehow didn't elicit much 'ooh aah'-age
from
> me, not like either of the previous episodes did.
No real ooh or aah-ing this ep, but I must say there was some "ooh-aah"-
age from me in ep 1 with the morph thing, plus the Spike-speech scene
last week was one of the most impressive scenes in Buffy I have ever
seen.
No arc stuff, no
> killing young girl somewhere in the world wakeup call (which I was sort
> of expecting..), minimal Spike (but very effective Spike. Great scene,
> that.) and a, for a change, relatively interesting demon, albeit one
who
> met his end rather quickly and easily.
Yes, effective use of latex this time :)
> We did get some nicely eerie scenes, though.
>
> Now, how Willow's going to get back into the group? We get to skip a
lot
> of it, which may be a good thing, since I'm quite sure we'll get more
> 'dealing' later, and angst is something we get anyway
Although she seems accepted at the end, it would surprise me if she
really is. There indeed will be "dealing" But I did like the Willow-Buffy
scene on the bed.
> Anya....is confusing. On the one hand, funny, helpful, but on the other
> hand, what the heck does the demonness *mean* now? I mean, she's more
> sensitive than she was *before* she became a Demon again. Yeesh.
Confusing, true. But I must say I liked Anya a helluva lot better these
past two eps than I have liked her in a long time.
> Dawn is quite the investigator. Although her paralysis wasn't terribly
> convincing at times. Oops. Amusing, sure. Most especially the 'falling
> off the couch' throwaway gag.
Hmm, bit crude that one. The whole paralysis thing was a bit a means to
an end. I did like Xanders' vomit fear :)
> Xander and Buffy....'her man'? Er, ok. Niall's theory that they may
> become an 'item' is...I'm gonna try not to think about it. For now.
Ahum.
Hadn't thought about that. Not a very appealing way to go IMO.
> OK, so, mostly I'm nattering on and on. So I'll give it a rest.
>
> Bottom line, I quite like it, like the imagery, like the feel, like it
> all, really, but somehow it's lacking a certain something. Mostly, I
> think it's the cold letdown from the essentially 'arc' stuff to an
> episode that has, well, none. No dealing at all with the 'Soul' issue
> (Spike's or Anya's, I don't care). Much dancing about.
Well, they'll get back to that stuff. You know they will. (I don't mind
the occasional inbetweener)
> OTOH, our MotW was nicely scary looking, rather gross, and a bit
freaky.
> So yay on that count.
yay!
Dieter
Flub
> Xander and Buffy....'her man'? Er, ok. Niall's theory that they may
> become an 'item' is...I'm gonna try not to think about it. For now.
> Ahum.
Wasn't it "Her boy"? which would tend to imply to me that it meant
something like a Sidekick
Mattia Valente
> it a bunch.
Oh, I'm liking. None of it has really annoyed me.
>>onwards, some division as to the how and the what of Willow (although,
>>overall, we've got lots of easy acceptance. Dawn's possible
>>'confrontation' has been saved up for some other day, though.)
>
> Yes, I expect that to go less smooth than what we just saw.
I'm a bit dissapointed, really, although I didn't expect some of the
dire conflict some posters were predicting.
>> But then, Espenson's only been
>> on board since, what, season 3?
>
> Well, if you don't know that...I sure don't. Right now I could't mention
> another Espenson ep if you paid me.
Pfft. Earshot, Afterlife, Triangle, Gingerbread, Band Candy, Superstar
to name a few. And it was more of a rhetorical question ;-)
> No real ooh or aah-ing this ep, but I must say there was some "ooh-aah"-
> age from me in ep 1 with the morph thing, plus the Spike-speech scene
> last week was one of the most impressive scenes in Buffy I have ever
> seen.
Last week yes. This week, not so much.
> Although she seems accepted at the end, it would surprise me if she
> really is. There indeed will be "dealing" But I did like the Willow-Buffy
> scene on the bed.
Yeah, was nice.
>>Anya....is confusing. On the one hand, funny, helpful, but on the other
>>hand, what the heck does the demonness *mean* now? I mean, she's more
>>sensitive than she was *before* she became a Demon again. Yeesh.
>
> Confusing, true. But I must say I liked Anya a helluva lot better these
> past two eps than I have liked her in a long time.
Liked her, yes. But I find it pathetic that they had to wait until she
was a demon again to develop her humanity properly. Because that's the
way it's looking right now.
>>Xander and Buffy....'her man'? Er, ok. Niall's theory that they may
>>become an 'item' is...I'm gonna try not to think about it. For now.
>
> Hadn't thought about that. Not a very appealing way to go IMO.
I dunno, actually.
Mattia
--
"It's low stress and the only place I get called "fucking," and
that's always funny." - Tim Minear, on why uk.media.tv.angel is
such a great place
Dave Emberton
news:3DA1F6EC...@std.vu.nl...
I was a bit disapointed when it looked like they were all just going to meet
up at the airport, so I really liked the way this one worked out. Although
Willow's "I did it" explanation was a bit lame.
> The episode felt nice, but somehow didn't elicit much 'ooh aah'-age from
> me, not like either of the previous episodes did. No arc stuff, no
> killing young girl somewhere in the world wakeup call (which I was sort
> of expecting..), minimal Spike (but very effective Spike. Great scene,
> that.) and a, for a change, relatively interesting demon, albeit one who
> met his end rather quickly and easily.
"Oooooo" was pretty much my reaction ;-)
>
> We did get some nicely eerie scenes, though.
Indeed. Possibly the most horrific thing we've ever seen, IMO. The demon was
brilliantly creepy, and it really did start to look like Willow was done
for, and in a pretty horrible (not to mention ironic) way too. Dawn being
permanantly paralysed was slightly scarey proposition (although would have
made the rest of the series interesting).
> Dawn is quite the investigator.
Yes, for the first time she's really looking like becoming a useful member
of the scoobies.
> Although her paralysis wasn't terribly
> convincing at times. Oops. Amusing, sure. Most especially the 'falling
> off the couch' throwaway gag.
Pretty much made me fall off the couch ;-)
> Xander and Buffy....'her man'? Er, ok. Niall's theory that they may
> become an 'item' is...I'm gonna try not to think about it. For now. Ahum.
I'm beginning to think this is more and more likely.
I quite liked "Lessons", wasn't at all sure about "From Beneath" (was that
was ep 2 was called?), but thought this one was exellent. Really felt like a
return to the Buffy of old, but at the same time keeping the slightly darker
tone from S6. Hope we get more of this.
Dave
dieter
(snippety)
> >> But then, Espenson's only been
>>> on board since, what, season 3?
>>
>> Well, if you don't know that...I sure don't. Right now I could't
>> mention another Espenson ep if you paid me.
>
> Pfft. Earshot, Afterlife, Triangle, Gingerbread, Band Candy, Superstar
> to name a few. And it was more of a rhetorical question ;-)
I had a feeling it was, but I also expected you to give me a quick
rundown. Now I know too :) (and some nice stuff in there, I might add)
(snnnippp)
>>>Anya....is confusing. On the one hand, funny, helpful, but on the
>>>other hand, what the heck does the demonness *mean* now? I mean,
>>>she's more sensitive than she was *before* she became a Demon again.
>>>Yeesh.
>>
>> Confusing, true. But I must say I liked Anya a helluva lot better
>> these past two eps than I have liked her in a long time.
>
> Liked her, yes. But I find it pathetic that they had to wait until she
> was a demon again to develop her humanity properly. Because that's the
> way it's looking right now.
Good point. Although "pathetic" seems a bit strong :)
We'll see where they go with her. I do feel that she is a more part of
the group dynamic than she's been for a long time.
>>>Xander and Buffy....'her man'? Er, ok. Niall's theory that they may
>>>become an 'item' is...I'm gonna try not to think about it. For now.
>>
>> Hadn't thought about that. Not a very appealing way to go IMO.
>
> I dunno, actually.
Nah, there should have been at least hints of attraction from Buffy's
side too. It has always been a bit Xanders' crush
Shuggie
Nice solid ep. I liked it. Few minor problems and it was stronger at the
beginning than the end but still a good ep.
>I don't really know what to make of this, actually. I mean, we get
>Willow back, but not really. We spend the ep in the 'Out of Mind, Out of
>Sight' dimension with added selective incorporeality, and, well, hmm.
>
I enjoyed that part of it actually.
>Good things: it's a pretty solid standalone avec character arc stuff.
>We've got Willow's return, a pleasantly disquieting feel from the teaser
>onwards, some division as to the how and the what of Willow (although,
>overall, we've got lots of easy acceptance. Dawn's possible
>'confrontation' has been saved up for some other day, though.)
>
I was hoping for more disagreement in the ranks over Willow. I mean
they're pretty much all on board - even Anya and Spike. OK Spike I get
but Anya!!??
>Plenty of continuity references: Yellow Crayon, making fun thereof,
:)
>Same
>'ole infamous 'sexual tension demon locating spell' (*sigh*...I miss
>Tara.
Actually the demon locating spell (Goodbye Iowa) was pretty low-key
sexual tension wise. It was the spell in Who Are You? that was the
infamous "that wasn't a spell it was just the kind of lesbian sex you
can do on TV" (or whatever the quote is) scene.
But I liked that there was a nod to Will & Tara. I was wondering if
there'd be a nod to Doppelgangland - the last time Willow did a spell
with demon Anyanka - but it wasn't to be.
Also Anya's line "it was a little sexy after all" and Willow's reaction
was nice :)
>And, well, I'm going to interpret the flamey goodness as
>foreshadowing.),
That's the thing that's been talking to Spike?
>more obsession about the flaying (sheesh, people.
>Thanks. It was gross enough the first time.) Only thing missing was a
>'marcie' ref, really. Would've worked. But then, Espenson's only been on
>board since, what, season 3?
>
>The episode felt nice, but somehow didn't elicit much 'ooh aah'-age from
>me, not like either of the previous episodes did. No arc stuff, no
>killing young girl somewhere in the world wakeup call (which I was sort
>of expecting..), minimal Spike (but very effective Spike. Great scene,
>that.) and a, for a change, relatively interesting demon, albeit one who
>met his end rather quickly and easily.
>
Did you notice the nod to Fool For Love? The line about needing a word
that means glowing and rhymes? Effulgent anyone? :)
>We did get some nicely eerie scenes, though.
>
>Now, how Willow's going to get back into the group? We get to skip a lot
>of it, which may be a good thing, since I'm quite sure we'll get more
>'dealing' later, and angst is something we get anyway
>
So the skins boys alive girl gets (almost) skinned alive. Instant Karma
huh?
I'm not too worried. I'd rather have Willow back in the group sooner
rather than later. Plus there's plenty of chances for angst and dealing
as you say.
One worrying thing though - Willow can do a major reality altering spell
just by thinking about it and without consciously meaning to? Does
anyone else think she's more dangerous now than when she was all-out
evil? I mean Willow stubs her toe and half the Western world'll be up in
smoke!
>Anya....is confusing. On the one hand, funny, helpful, but on the other
>hand, what the heck does the demonness *mean* now? I mean, she's more
>sensitive than she was *before* she became a Demon again. Yeesh.
>
The flexible nature of Anya's character has been bothering me for a
while. Of all the people on the show I expected her to be most
unforgiving of Willow. She was never exactly Willow's best friend - and
vice versa. But I resigned to the fact that consistency with her
character and plotline have gone out the window.
Make her human again already so we can all move on!
>Dawn is quite the investigator. Although her paralysis wasn't terribly
>convincing at times. Oops. Amusing, sure. Most especially the 'falling
>off the couch' throwaway gag.
>
A posable Dawn. I want one! Not for that! - you have a smutty mind Book.
Oops wrong show.
Yes Dawn's enjoying being involved in the demon-killing business. Which
I might enjoy more if it didn't stink to high heaven of spin-off.
>Xander and Buffy....'her man'? Er, ok. Niall's theory that they may
>become an 'item' is...I'm gonna try not to think about it. For now. Ahum.
>
her boy - which has a majorly different emphasis. It's a step up from
buttmonkey but only just.
That was a fun moment though - Buffy's all about the mission and
Xander's all offended about being called 'her boy' :)
>OK, so, mostly I'm nattering on and on. So I'll give it a rest.
>
>Bottom line, I quite like it, like the imagery, like the feel, like it
>all, really, but somehow it's lacking a certain something. Mostly, I
>think it's the cold letdown from the essentially 'arc' stuff to an
>episode that has, well, none. No dealing at all with the 'Soul' issue
>(Spike's or Anya's, I don't care). Much dancing about.
>
The Soul can wait - it's an arcy thing - I'm not worried that there was
no dealing with it this ep.
>OTOH, our MotW was nicely scary looking, rather gross, and a bit freaky.
>So yay on that count.
>
Yeah Gollum, erm, I mean Gnarl was fun.
A goblin type creature that hangs out in caves muttering about a gift?
Seems that Espenson's joined in the movie homage game :)
Overall as I said a good ep. Jane brings the funny but also the creepy.
--
Shug
Zaphod's just this guy... you know?
Dave Emberton
news:q3f6qu01s22009mna...@4ax.com...
> >Anya....is confusing. On the one hand, funny, helpful, but on the other
> >hand, what the heck does the demonness *mean* now? I mean, she's more
> >sensitive than she was *before* she became a Demon again. Yeesh.
> >
>
> The flexible nature of Anya's character has been bothering me for a
> while. Of all the people on the show I expected her to be most
> unforgiving of Willow. She was never exactly Willow's best friend - and
> vice versa. But I resigned to the fact that consistency with her
> character and plotline have gone out the window.
One thing I really liked about this ep is the way Willow and Anya "bonded"
over vengance. Having been through her whole evil streak, I wonder if this
is likely to continue with Willow being a slight outsider they're unready to
trust totally, much the same as Anya will undoubtedly be. As we saw in
"Triangle", the antagonism between them was largely because of Xander, and
that won't necessarily apply anymore. I hope this does continue as it's
likely to be a change in the group dynamic, especially if Xander and Buffy
do get together (as I'm becoming more convinced of).
> >Xander and Buffy....'her man'? Er, ok. Niall's theory that they may
> >become an 'item' is...I'm gonna try not to think about it. For now. Ahum.
> >
>
> her boy - which has a majorly different emphasis. It's a step up from
> buttmonkey but only just.
>
> That was a fun moment though - Buffy's all about the mission and
> Xander's all offended about being called 'her boy' :)
But it's the "her" part that's significant.
Dave
Dave Emberton
> Dave Emberton wrote:
> > "Mattia Valente" <mae.v...@std.vu.nl> wrote in message
> > news:3DA1F6EC...@std.vu.nl...
> >
> >>RATT Time! Again!
> >
> > Give us a chance! Still trying to catch up with Angel ;-)
>
> Mwah hah hah...
Caught up now. Phew. But then it'll Firefly again in a couple of days. Ahhh!
;-)
Dave
Andrew Hogg
"Dave Emberton" <notint...@notinterested.in.your.spam.com> wrote in
message news:uq6om18...@corp.supernews.com...
--
Andrew Hogg
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky animals and you know it."
Niall Harrison
I'm finding it a bit hard to say anything about this one. It was just
kinda...there. Some nice bits, nothing really sucky, a bit on the slow
side and with a creepy-as-hell demon, but that's about it. I don't feel
like we ever got down to the meaty issues we should have done, I guess.
> Good things: it's a pretty solid standalone avec character arc stuff.
Andrew will be so pleased...
> Only thing missing was a
> 'marcie' ref, really. Would've worked. But then, Espenson's only been on
> board since, what, season 3?
Fury's only been around since S2, and he managed the Marcie ref in 'Gone'.
It's not a biggie, though.
> Anya....is confusing.
Join the bandwagon. :-)
I reckon she must have gained a soul when she became human, and kept it
when she became a demon again. It's the only explanation I can see. Of
course, then you have the question of how she lost her soul the first time
around, but maybe that's part of the pact you have to make to become a
vengeance demon and she didn't have to do it second time because D'Hoffryn
really wanted her back...
Yeah, I'm reaching.
> Xander and Buffy....'her man'? Er, ok. Niall's theory that they may
> become an 'item' is...I'm gonna try not to think about it. For now. Ahum.
Oh, it'll be great. You know it.
Music was good. Yay for good score music.
Niall
--
Found a message in the sand
It read 'just do the best you can'.
Shuggie
Yeah could work. All I really ask is that they settle on who Anya is and
stick with it.
>As we saw in
>"Triangle", the antagonism between them was largely because of Xander, and
>that won't necessarily apply anymore. I hope this does continue as it's
>likely to be a change in the group dynamic, especially if Xander and Buffy
>do get together (as I'm becoming more convinced of).
>
Well let me put it this way - I don't see anything to rule it out but I
can't really see it happening. Dawn-Willow on the other hand is a
virtual certainty.
>> >Xander and Buffy....'her man'? Er, ok. Niall's theory that they may
>> >become an 'item' is...I'm gonna try not to think about it. For now. Ahum.
>> >
>>
>> her boy - which has a majorly different emphasis. It's a step up from
>> buttmonkey but only just.
>>
>> That was a fun moment though - Buffy's all about the mission and
>> Xander's all offended about being called 'her boy' :)
>
>But it's the "her" part that's significant.
>
It is if you're right. Right now it could go either way.
--
Shug
No bumpy foreheads, no living long, no prospering. It's really a way
of saying that in the future people will be exactly the same as they
are now... only you know, they'll have spaceships
- Joss on Firefly
Mattia Valente
That actually pretty much sums it up. Somehow it doesn't manage to be
all 'there'.
>>Good things: it's a pretty solid standalone avec character arc stuff.
>
> Andrew will be so pleased...
Hehehe...
>>Only thing missing was a
>>'marcie' ref, really. Would've worked. But then, Espenson's only been on
>>board since, what, season 3?
>
> Fury's only been around since S2, and he managed the Marcie ref in 'Gone'.
> It's not a biggie, though.
Nah, true. No biggie.
>>Anya....is confusing.
>
> Join the bandwagon. :-)
I was on it already ;-)
> I reckon she must have gained a soul when she became human, and kept it
> when she became a demon again. It's the only explanation I can see. Of
> course, then you have the question of how she lost her soul the first time
> around, but maybe that's part of the pact you have to make to become a
> vengeance demon and she didn't have to do it second time because D'Hoffryn
> really wanted her back...
Uuuh....
> Yeah, I'm reaching.
Quite.
>>Xander and Buffy....'her man'? Er, ok. Niall's theory that they may
>>become an 'item' is...I'm gonna try not to think about it. For now. Ahum.
>
> Oh, it'll be great. You know it.
We'll see.
> Music was good. Yay for good score music.
Yay for Douglas Romayne.
Mattia
--
''I hate camp. I don't enjoy dumb TV. I believe Aaron Spelling
has single-handedly lowered SAT scores.'' - Joss Whedon
Andrew Hogg
"Niall Harrison" <s...@tirian.magd.ox.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:anvs78$d08$1...@news.ox.ac.uk...
Actually I am. If the dialogue had been a bit better throughout I would
have really liked this. There were some nice moments but I didn't like the
talk at the end and it was generally uneven.
I'm discovering dialogue really, really matters to me. I think it's why I
like Firefly so much.
> > Only thing missing was a
> > 'marcie' ref, really. Would've worked. But then, Espenson's only been
on
> > board since, what, season 3?
>
> Fury's only been around since S2, and he managed the Marcie ref in
'Gone'.
> It's not a biggie, though.
>
> > Anya....is confusing.
>
> Join the bandwagon. :-)
>
> I reckon she must have gained a soul when she became human, and kept it
> when she became a demon again. It's the only explanation I can see. Of
> course, then you have the question of how she lost her soul the first
time
> around, but maybe that's part of the pact you have to make to become a
> vengeance demon and she didn't have to do it second time because
D'Hoffryn
> really wanted her back...
>
> Yeah, I'm reaching.
>
Would it be bad of me to say fanwank now?
> > Xander and Buffy....'her man'? Er, ok. Niall's theory that they may
> > become an 'item' is...I'm gonna try not to think about it. For now.
Ahum.
>
> Oh, it'll be great. You know it.
>
Hey. Not just his theory ya know :-p
Mark Scott-Simons
>>"Triangle", the antagonism between them was largely because of Xander, and
>>that won't necessarily apply anymore. I hope this does continue as it's
>>likely to be a change in the group dynamic, especially if Xander and Buffy
>>do get together (as I'm becoming more convinced of).
>>
>
>Well let me put it this way - I don't see anything to rule it out but I
>can't really see it happening. Dawn-Willow on the other hand is a
>virtual certainty.
In your dreams ;-)
Dan Milburn
And Pangs. Don't forget Pangs.
>>>>Anya....is confusing. On the one hand, funny, helpful, but on the
>>>>other hand, what the heck does the demonness *mean* now? I mean, she's
>>>>more sensitive than she was *before* she became a Demon again. Yeesh.
>>>
>>> Confusing, true. But I must say I liked Anya a helluva lot better
>>> these past two eps than I have liked her in a long time.
>>
>> Liked her, yes. But I find it pathetic that they had to wait until she
>> was a demon again to develop her humanity properly. Because that's the
>> way it's looking right now.
>
> Good point. Although "pathetic" seems a bit strong :) We'll see where
> they go with her. I do feel that she is a more part of the group dynamic
> than she's been for a long time.
I think that's largely cos there *is* a group dynamic which has been
lacking for a long time. And even better, Dawn's part of it too.
Dan
Dan Milburn
I thought it had a really good combination of both.
> Good things: it's a pretty solid standalone avec character arc stuff.
> We've got Willow's return, a pleasantly disquieting feel from the teaser
> onwards, some division as to the how and the what of Willow (although,
> overall, we've got lots of easy acceptance. Dawn's possible
> 'confrontation' has been saved up for some other day, though.)
But it's not gonna be anywhere near as strong as her confrontation with
Spike, if it does happen.
> Plenty of continuity references: Yellow Crayon, making fun thereof, Same
> 'ole infamous 'sexual tension demon locating spell' (*sigh*...I miss
> Tara. And, well, I'm going to interpret the flamey goodness as
> foreshadowing.),
I was slightly surprised they didn't actually make any mention of that
being the spell Tara deliberately screwed up (*sigh*...I miss her too).
> more obsession about the flaying (sheesh, people. Thanks. It was gross
> enough the first time.)
It was even grosser this time, I thought.
> Only thing missing was a
> 'marcie' ref, really. Would've worked. But then, Espenson's only been on
> board since, what, season 3?
Yup.
> The episode felt nice, but somehow didn't elicit much 'ooh aah'-age from
> me, not like either of the previous episodes did.
Not in that way, no. Although the scenes where the demon was eating
Willows skin were eliciting some noises from me. Eeeww.
> No arc stuff,
We don't really have an arc as yet though, do we? Just unexplained stuff.
> no
> killing young girl somewhere in the world wakeup call (which I was sort
> of expecting..),
Me too. It'll be weird if they start doing it again, so I'm thinking we
need some revealage of exactly what the frell was going on there.
> minimal Spike (but very effective Spike. Great scene, that.)
Yeah, they're really giving James Marsters chances to show off this
season. And of course "I'm insane. What's *his* excuse?" :D
> and a, for a change, relatively interesting demon, albeit one who met
> his end rather quickly and easily.
And did I mention 'eeww'? The whole popping eyeballs with thumbs thing
was pretty strange too.
> We did get some nicely eerie scenes, though.
> Now, how Willow's going to get back into the group? We get to skip a lot
> of it, which may be a good thing, since I'm quite sure we'll get more
> 'dealing' later, and angst is something we get anyway
But, as I said last week, I never thought their reaction to her return was
gonna be anyway near as bad as she feared. Which this ep covered pretty
well. :)
> Anya....is confusing. On the one hand, funny, helpful, but on the other
> hand, what the heck does the demonness *mean* now? I mean, she's more
> sensitive than she was *before* she became a Demon again. Yeesh.
Ok, Niall was right. If they keep this up, we *do* need some
clarification on her soul status. Still, much with the entertaining. JE
writes Anya well.
> Dawn is quite the investigator.
Indeed. And just generally so much more interesting this season. I like
her. :)
> Although her paralysis wasn't terribly convincing at times. Oops.
> Amusing, sure. Most especially the 'falling off the couch' throwaway
> gag.
And Buffys delight at the discovery that she was poseable.
> Xander and Buffy....'her man'? Er, ok. Niall's theory that they may
> become an 'item' is...I'm gonna try not to think about it. For now.
> Ahum.
They wouldn't, would they?
> OK, so, mostly I'm nattering on and on. So I'll give it a rest.
>
> Bottom line, I quite like it, like the imagery, like the feel, like it
> all, really, but somehow it's lacking a certain something. Mostly, I
> think it's the cold letdown from the essentially 'arc' stuff to an
> episode that has, well, none.
This is hardly a first for Buffy, though is it. Didn't bother me in the
slightest, I was too busy just enjoying the thing.
> No dealing at all with the 'Soul' issue (Spike's or Anya's, I don't
> care). Much dancing about.
>
> OTOH, our MotW was nicely scary looking, rather gross, and a bit freaky.
> So yay on that count.
The talking was a bit silly. But other than that, Buffy so rarely does
scary at all well, I was very impressed.
Dan
Mattia Valente
>>>to name a few. And it was more of a rhetorical question ;-)
>>
>>I had a feeling it was, but I also expected you to give me a quick
>>rundown. Now I know too :) (and some nice stuff in there, I might add)
>
> And Pangs. Don't forget Pangs.
Nah. That ep's funny, but doesn't really *do* anything for me. Besides,
this was more or less an 'off-the-top-of-my-head' kind of deal.
>>Good point. Although "pathetic" seems a bit strong :) We'll see where
>>they go with her. I do feel that she is a more part of the group dynamic
>>than she's been for a long time.
>
> I think that's largely cos there *is* a group dynamic which has been
> lacking for a long time. And even better, Dawn's part of it too.
Yup. That's the irony, really. No longer really part of the group, and
yet, for almost the first time, she feels like less of an outsider. It
sorta kinda bothers me.
Mattia
--
"Too many obsessions to list. My obsessions have obsessions." -
Steve DeKnight
Mattia Valente
>>
>>Andrew will be so pleased...
>
> Actually I am. If the dialogue had been a bit better throughout I would
> have really liked this. There were some nice moments but I didn't like the
> talk at the end and it was generally uneven.
\o/
> I'm discovering dialogue really, really matters to me. I think it's why I
> like Firefly so much.
Hmm. I think it's the fact you like dialogue, and that things sound a
lot fresher when you, well, don't know the characters all that well. Not
that Buffy's 'stale' now, but there's little left to wonder about re:
most characters motivations.
<Niall's Wacky Anya Theory[tm]>
> Would it be bad of me to say fanwank now?
No, not really.
>>>Xander and Buffy....'her man'? Er, ok. Niall's theory that they may
>>>become an 'item' is...I'm gonna try not to think about it. For now.
>>
>>Oh, it'll be great. You know it.
>
> Hey. Not just his theory ya know :-p
Okay then.
Mattia Valente
Pretty much. What I meant by that is that Espenson hasn't actually
deliverd a lot really 'crack me up' episodes of the kind she's 'famous'
for for a while now. Co-written a few (Life Serial), but her best stuff
has been the more drama-y kind of thing.
>>Good things: it's a pretty solid standalone avec character arc stuff.
>>We've got Willow's return, a pleasantly disquieting feel from the teaser
>>onwards, some division as to the how and the what of Willow (although,
>>overall, we've got lots of easy acceptance. Dawn's possible
>>'confrontation' has been saved up for some other day, though.)
>
> But it's not gonna be anywhere near as strong as her confrontation with
> Spike, if it does happen.
Sorry? Who's confrontation with Spike, now? Willow's? After she learns
of what he did, you mean? Or soemthing else that I'm missing entirely?
>>Plenty of continuity references: Yellow Crayon, making fun thereof, Same
>>'ole infamous 'sexual tension demon locating spell' (*sigh*...I miss
>>Tara. And, well, I'm going to interpret the flamey goodness as
>>foreshadowing.),
>
> I was slightly surprised they didn't actually make any mention of that
> being the spell Tara deliberately screwed up (*sigh*...I miss her too).
Did Tara actually ever confess to screwing up said spell, in Family? I'm
too lazy to check and it's been too long since last I watched the ep.
>>more obsession about the flaying (sheesh, people. Thanks. It was gross
>>enough the first time.)
>
> It was even grosser this time, I thought.
Well, yeah. Although when they said 'strips of skin' I was expecting
slightly larger, bloodier strips. Ahum.
>>The episode felt nice, but somehow didn't elicit much 'ooh aah'-age from
>>me, not like either of the previous episodes did.
>
> Not in that way, no. Although the scenes where the demon was eating
> Willows skin were eliciting some noises from me. Eeeww.
:-)
>>No arc stuff,
>
> We don't really have an arc as yet though, do we? Just unexplained stuff.
Unexplained stuff that's heavily hinting at arc. I don't know what else
to call grils being killed in random places coupled with bizarre visions
of big-badness.
>>killing young girl somewhere in the world wakeup call (which I was sort
>>of expecting..),
>
> Me too. It'll be weird if they start doing it again, so I'm thinking we
> need some revealage of exactly what the frell was going on there.
Oh, it might be weird, it might not. Kind of like the 'Darla' tags in S3
Angel: not every ep has them.
>>minimal Spike (but very effective Spike. Great scene, that.)
>
> Yeah, they're really giving James Marsters chances to show off this
> season. And of course "I'm insane. What's *his* excuse?" :D
:o)
>>and a, for a change, relatively interesting demon, albeit one who met
>>his end rather quickly and easily.
>
> And did I mention 'eeww'? The whole popping eyeballs with thumbs thing
> was pretty strange too.
Squidgy.
>>Now, how Willow's going to get back into the group? We get to skip a lot
>>of it, which may be a good thing, since I'm quite sure we'll get more
>>'dealing' later, and angst is something we get anyway
>
> But, as I said last week, I never thought their reaction to her return was
> gonna be anyway near as bad as she feared. Which this ep covered pretty
> well. :)
Purty much. Something else I saw mentioned somewhere comes to mind: if
this is what she can do just by thinking about it...
...you work out the rest.
>>Anya....is confusing. On the one hand, funny, helpful, but on the other
>>hand, what the heck does the demonness *mean* now? I mean, she's more
>>sensitive than she was *before* she became a Demon again. Yeesh.
>
> Ok, Niall was right. If they keep this up, we *do* need some
> clarification on her soul status. Still, much with the entertaining. JE
> writes Anya well.
Very much so. Doesn't make her character more understandable, though.
>>Dawn is quite the investigator.
>
> Indeed. And just generally so much more interesting this season. I like
> her. :)
Aye.
>>Although her paralysis wasn't terribly convincing at times. Oops.
>>Amusing, sure. Most especially the 'falling off the couch' throwaway
>>gag.
>
> And Buffys delight at the discovery that she was poseable.
That was slightly disturbing.
>>Xander and Buffy....'her man'? Er, ok. Niall's theory that they may
>>become an 'item' is...I'm gonna try not to think about it. For now.
>>Ahum.
>
> They wouldn't, would they?
I'm not so sure. There's a definite vibe going on there, and I don't
think it'd be a 'throes of passion' kind of relationship, well..
I dunno. I just don't.
>>Bottom line, I quite like it, like the imagery, like the feel, like it
>>all, really, but somehow it's lacking a certain something. Mostly, I
>>think it's the cold letdown from the essentially 'arc' stuff to an
>>episode that has, well, none.
>
> This is hardly a first for Buffy, though is it. Didn't bother me in the
> slightest, I was too busy just enjoying the thing.
It's not a first, but it's a very abrupt break, in a sense. And the fact
that I felt something undefinable was lacking probably explains the rest.
>>OTOH, our MotW was nicely scary looking, rather gross, and a bit freaky.
>>So yay on that count.
>
> The talking was a bit silly. But other than that, Buffy so rarely does
> scary at all well, I was very impressed.
Nah, it was all Gollum.
Mattia
--
''I don't want to create responsible shows with lawyers in them.
I want to invade people's dreams.'' - Joss Whedon
Dan Milburn
>> But it's not gonna be anywhere near as strong as her confrontation with
>> Spike, if it does happen.
>
> Sorry? Who's confrontation with Spike, now? Willow's? After she learns
> of what he did, you mean? Or soemthing else that I'm missing entirely?
Dawns confrontation with Spike in last weeks ep. Can't imagine Dawn
threatening to set fire to Willow while she's asleep..
>>>Plenty of continuity references: Yellow Crayon, making fun thereof,
>>>Same 'ole infamous 'sexual tension demon locating spell' (*sigh*...I
>>>miss Tara. And, well, I'm going to interpret the flamey goodness as
>>>foreshadowing.),
>>
>> I was slightly surprised they didn't actually make any mention of that
>> being the spell Tara deliberately screwed up (*sigh*...I miss her too).
>
> Did Tara actually ever confess to screwing up said spell, in Family? I'm
> too lazy to check and it's been too long since last I watched the ep.
Now you mention it, I don't *think* so, but then, it's not one I rewatch
all that often.. Still, wouldn't be a huge leap for them to have figured
it out.
>>>more obsession about the flaying (sheesh, people. Thanks. It was gross
>>>enough the first time.)
>>
>> It was even grosser this time, I thought.
>
> Well, yeah. Although when they said 'strips of skin' I was expecting
> slightly larger, bloodier strips. Ahum.
LOL I think they made it as nasty as they could reasonably get away with.
The agonising slowness of the whole thing, with the cutting back to the
gang wasting time, was what really did it.
>>>No arc stuff,
>>
>> We don't really have an arc as yet though, do we? Just unexplained
>> stuff.
>
> Unexplained stuff that's heavily hinting at arc. I don't know what else
> to call grils being killed in random places coupled with bizarre visions
> of big-badness.
Fair enough. It *was* weird that there was no mention of any of that, it
just didn't bother me.
>>>killing young girl somewhere in the world wakeup call (which I was sort
>>>of expecting..),
>>
>> Me too. It'll be weird if they start doing it again, so I'm thinking
>> we need some revealage of exactly what the frell was going on there.
>
> Oh, it might be weird, it might not. Kind of like the 'Darla' tags in S3
> Angel: not every ep has them.
Only the first two do. So, nothing else on it til sweeps then? ;)
>>>Bottom line, I quite like it, like the imagery, like the feel, like it
>>>all, really, but somehow it's lacking a certain something. Mostly, I
>>>think it's the cold letdown from the essentially 'arc' stuff to an
>>>episode that has, well, none.
>>
>> This is hardly a first for Buffy, though is it. Didn't bother me in
>> the slightest, I was too busy just enjoying the thing.
>
> It's not a first, but it's a very abrupt break, in a sense.
Well it is. But then, not quite as abrupt as 'Go Fish'.
>>>OTOH, our MotW was nicely scary looking, rather gross, and a bit
>>>freaky. So yay on that count.
>>
>> The talking was a bit silly. But other than that, Buffy so rarely does
>> scary at all well, I was very impressed.
>
> Nah, it was all Gollum.
I was kinda getting that, although I've not actually read LotR.
Dan
Dave Emberton
news:4k28quk0bkhlkp2v0...@4ax.com...
Can you send me a copy of your dreams? ;-)
How about Dawn-Connor?. Then we can have an unspeakably awful spin off:
"Dawny loves Connor".
Dave
Tafka
+0200 in alt.buffy.europe said:
I've had no real inclination to post my thoughts on Buffy S7 Eps1 + 2
(apart from some fumbled words in me LJ on 701) but I'm going to go
for a little of this...
I'm not sure what's already been covered - not read the threads yet -
and not got enough for my own thread, so here goes:
I prefer the dramatic/horrific over the funny for most filler/intro
episodes - see "Carpe Noctem" for filler gone bad.
>Good things: it's a pretty solid standalone avec character arc stuff.
>We've got Willow's return, a pleasantly disquieting feel from the teaser
>onwards, some division as to the how and the what of Willow (although,
>overall, we've got lots of easy acceptance. Dawn's possible
>'confrontation' has been saved up for some other day, though.)
I'm liking Dawn now. I didn't like her (nothing against MT, it was
just difficult to pin down...) even though the character was pretty
spot good for what she was going through.
Season 6 she was just annoying and whining.
Her "Willow's evil?" queries seemed valid and as opposed to me
thinking "she's off on one again..." I was thinking "Ah, fair point".
Oh yeah; and Willow's return - good.
[Snip references; added nicely to the feel]
>The episode felt nice, but somehow didn't elicit much 'ooh aah'-age from
>me, not like either of the previous episodes did. No arc stuff, no
>killing young girl somewhere in the world wakeup call (which I was sort
>of expecting..), minimal Spike (but very effective Spike. Great scene,
>that.) and a, for a change, relatively interesting demon, albeit one who
>met his end rather quickly and easily.
I much preferred this episode over 7x02, which is - for me -
ultimately forgettable aside from Buffy/Spike church-time. Oh; and
Spike/Xander 'look'. Which worries me on many levels.
Spike has become very good recently, and I'm looking forward to the
November sweeps where I'm sure it'll be full of major-Spike issues.
They just need to keep Anya/Spike apart - as well as Anya/everyone
else and any Spike references...
>Anya....is confusing. On the one hand, funny, helpful, but on the other
>hand, what the heck does the demonness *mean* now? I mean, she's more
>sensitive than she was *before* she became a Demon again. Yeesh.
Plus; sensed Spike's soul. That's either going to be forgotten or used
in them sweeps...
>Dawn is quite the investigator. Although her paralysis wasn't terribly
>convincing at times. Oops. Amusing, sure. Most especially the 'falling
>off the couch' throwaway gag.
"wasn't terribly convincing" - when they leave her she's swaying from
side-to-side!
>Xander and Buffy....'her man'? Er, ok. Niall's theory that they may
>become an 'item' is...I'm gonna try not to think about it. For now. Ahum.
Xander/Buffy - ick.
>Bottom line, I quite like it, like the imagery, like the feel, like it
>all, really, but somehow it's lacking a certain something. Mostly, I
>think it's the cold letdown from the essentially 'arc' stuff to an
>episode that has, well, none. No dealing at all with the 'Soul' issue
>(Spike's or Anya's, I don't care). Much dancing about.
Which is good. I don't want too much too quickly. Anya says she helped
out the others "a couple of (or few?) days ago" - Spike makes a big
deal of Buffy being away since then, which has obviously upset his
mental state a bit more and, since this is going to focus on Willow,
allows Buffy/Xander to ignore Spike's rantings as increasing
craziness.
Plus; Sweeps. Soon (mostly soon).
>OTOH, our MotW was nicely scary looking, rather gross, and a bit freaky.
>So yay on that count.
Oh, very very good. I was very impressed.
-Tafka-
"Welcome to Rivendell.... Mr Anderson"
Mattia Valente
> Mattia Valente <mae.v...@std.vu.nl> on Mon, 07 Oct 2002 23:04:44
> +0200 in alt.buffy.europe said:
>
> I've had no real inclination to post my thoughts on Buffy S7 Eps1 + 2
> (apart from some fumbled words in me LJ on 701) but I'm going to go
> for a little of this...
'cause you don't think it's worth it, or 'cause it's a little bit late
for that?
> I'm not sure what's already been covered - not read the threads yet -
> and not got enough for my own thread, so here goes:
Aw, just jump in.
Well, yes. Because CN is quasi devoid of any meaning whatsoever.
> I'm liking Dawn now. I didn't like her (nothing against MT, it was
> just difficult to pin down...) even though the character was pretty
> spot good for what she was going through.
> Season 6 she was just annoying and whining.
Well, that pretty much covers it. Mostly, in S6, she was being really
really ignored, and didn't get much of a chance to shine in any way
shape or form; now she's got a place, she's been accepted, she's got a
role. It's all good.
> Her "Willow's evil?" queries seemed valid and as opposed to me
> thinking "she's off on one again..." I was thinking "Ah, fair point".
:-)
> Oh yeah; and Willow's return - good.
Yay!
> I much preferred this episode over 7x02, which is - for me -
> ultimately forgettable aside from Buffy/Spike church-time. Oh; and
> Spike/Xander 'look'. Which worries me on many levels.
Hmmm. Well, for me, 7x02 is made by the whole Spike Stuff. Because it
works really well. Admittedly, this ep's a little more rounded, a little
tighter, but it also lacks the punch.
> Spike has become very good recently, and I'm looking forward to the
> November sweeps where I'm sure it'll be full of major-Spike issues.
Aye.
> They just need to keep Anya/Spike apart - as well as Anya/everyone
> else and any Spike references...
Er....
>>Anya....is confusing. On the one hand, funny, helpful, but on the other
>>hand, what the heck does the demonness *mean* now? I mean, she's more
>>sensitive than she was *before* she became a Demon again. Yeesh.
>
> Plus; sensed Spike's soul. That's either going to be forgotten or used
> in them sweeps...
She's a demon. They can do that. Not really something that needs to be
used, IMO.
> "wasn't terribly convincing" - when they leave her she's swaying from
> side-to-side!
Well, yeah. Far too twitchy for someone who can't move.
>>Xander and Buffy....'her man'? Er, ok. Niall's theory that they may
>>become an 'item' is...I'm gonna try not to think about it. For now. Ahum.
>
> Xander/Buffy - ick.
Aww, c'mon...
> Which is good. I don't want too much too quickly. Anya says she helped
> out the others "a couple of (or few?) days ago" - Spike makes a big
> deal of Buffy being away since then, which has obviously upset his
> mental state a bit more and, since this is going to focus on Willow,
> allows Buffy/Xander to ignore Spike's rantings as increasing
> craziness.
Yay.
> Plus; Sweeps. Soon (mostly soon).
Well, another 3 eps or so.
>>OTOH, our MotW was nicely scary looking, rather gross, and a bit freaky.
>>So yay on that count.
>
> Oh, very very good. I was very impressed.
Doesn't happen much. Actually, last time it happened was 'Afterlife',
IIRC. Another Espenson Creature Feature.
Mattia
--
"Every time people say, 'You've transcended the genre,' I'm
like: No! I believe in genre.'' - Joss Whedon
Tafka
+0200 in alt.buffy.europe said:
>Tafka wrote:
>> Mattia Valente <mae.v...@std.vu.nl> on Mon, 07 Oct 2002 23:04:44
>> +0200 in alt.buffy.europe said:
>>
>> I've had no real inclination to post my thoughts on Buffy S7 Eps1 + 2
>> (apart from some fumbled words in me LJ on 701) but I'm going to go
>> for a little of this...
>
>'cause you don't think it's worth it, or 'cause it's a little bit late
>for that?
Just didn't have a lot to say. Angel, OTOH... I'm going to rewatch
tomorrow and post away.
>> I'm not sure what's already been covered - not read the threads yet -
>> and not got enough for my own thread, so here goes:
>
>Aw, just jump in.
Pf & ft.
[Very snipped since I'm knackered and off...]
>> I'm liking Dawn now. I didn't like her (nothing against MT, it was
>> just difficult to pin down...) even though the character was pretty
>> spot good for what she was going through.
>> Season 6 she was just annoying and whining.
>
>Well, that pretty much covers it. Mostly, in S6, she was being really
>really ignored, and didn't get much of a chance to shine in any way
>shape or form; now she's got a place, she's been accepted, she's got a
>role. It's all good.
Why do you say she's more accepted and "in place" now than S6? And if
you say the bit during 6x22 when her/Buffy bond - ack!
>> They just need to keep Anya/Spike apart - as well as Anya/everyone
>> else and any Spike references...
>
>Er....
Anya noticed Spike had a soul. The others don't know it yet. If anyone
talks about Spike 'round her, she might bring it up. Probably more
consistent with her to *not* bring it up, however, but still.
Creates distancing.
-Tafka-
You see that, young lady? Respect. Respect for one's elders gives character.
Mattia Valente
>>>Mattia Valente <mae.v...@std.vu.nl> on Mon, 07 Oct 2002 23:04:44
>>>+0200 in alt.buffy.europe said:
>>>
>>>I've had no real inclination to post my thoughts on Buffy S7 Eps1 + 2
>>>(apart from some fumbled words in me LJ on 701) but I'm going to go
>>>for a little of this...
>>
>>'cause you don't think it's worth it, or 'cause it's a little bit late
>>for that?
>
> Just didn't have a lot to say. Angel, OTOH... I'm going to rewatch
> tomorrow and post away.
Weirdo. On the first count, that is.
>>Well, that pretty much covers it. Mostly, in S6, she was being really
>>really ignored, and didn't get much of a chance to shine in any way
>>shape or form; now she's got a place, she's been accepted, she's got a
>>role. It's all good.
>
> Why do you say she's more accepted and "in place" now than S6? And if
> you say the bit during 6x22 when her/Buffy bond - ack!
Because she is. And yes, that painfully toochache inducingly sweet scene
at the end of S6 was part of that. In S6, everyone was pretty much
self-involved in one way or another: Buffy had her 'thing', Willow went
all crack addict, Tara left (and died), Xander had Anya Trubbles, so...
Season 7 opens with Buffy training Dawn, with Dawn actually helping to
do research and not being sent off and out of the way. And she's
accepted her role, her place, and isn't winging about it.
>>>They just need to keep Anya/Spike apart - as well as Anya/everyone
>>>else and any Spike references...
>>
>>Er....
>
> Anya noticed Spike had a soul. The others don't know it yet. If anyone
> talks about Spike 'round her, she might bring it up. Probably more
> consistent with her to *not* bring it up, however, but still.
Buffy knows. She says so outright, the whole 'oh my god, you have a
soul' thing from 'Beneath You'. Whether she's told the rest of them
remains to be seen. Should be interesting.
> Creates distancing.
Yeah.
Tafka
+0200 in alt.buffy.europe said:
>>>>They just need to keep Anya/Spike apart - as well as Anya/everyone
>>>>else and any Spike references...
>>>
>>>Er....
>>
>> Anya noticed Spike had a soul. The others don't know it yet. If anyone
>> talks about Spike 'round her, she might bring it up. Probably more
>> consistent with her to *not* bring it up, however, but still.
>
>Buffy knows. She says so outright, the whole 'oh my god, you have a
>soul' thing from 'Beneath You'. Whether she's told the rest of them
>remains to be seen. Should be interesting.
Good point. Told you it was forgettable :)
-Tafka-
It doesn't matter what temperature the room is,
it's always room temperature.
Linda
"Dan Milburn" <daniel...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2002.10.09.13...@hotmail.com...
> > his end rather quickly and easily.
>
> And did I mention 'eeww'? The whole popping eyeballs with thumbs thing
> was pretty strange too.
I kept getting a whole crossover vibe with the Angel episode. Angel's line to
Connor about popping his eyes out in the teaser.
>
> > Dawn is quite the investigator.
>
> Indeed. And just generally so much more interesting this season. I like
> her. :)
She was using the Demons, Demons, Demons database that they use on Angel too.
Almost as if they're planning to move some detectives around. Just a theory.
> > Xander and Buffy....'her man'? Er, ok. Niall's theory that they may
> > become an 'item' is...I'm gonna try not to think about it. For now.
> > Ahum.
>
> They wouldn't, would they?
G*d I hope not.
> >
> > OTOH, our MotW was nicely scary looking, rather gross, and a bit freaky.
> > So yay on that count.
>
> The talking was a bit silly. But other than that, Buffy so rarely does
> scary at all well, I was very impressed.
I think they were going for more of a Gollum type of creature, but yah, scary.
--
Best Regards,
Linda
Mmmmmm...Angel
Mattia Valente
Pffffttt....try watching when yer NOT sleeping, wouldya?
;-P
Mattia
--
"How I used to write for Lois and Clark? Mostly in my underwear
with a large tub of ice cream. What's it to ya?" - Tim Minear
Neil Crosby
"Mattia Valente" <mae.v...@std.vu.nl> wrote in message
news:3DA5AF19...@std.vu.nl...
>
> Pffffttt....try watching when yer NOT sleeping, wouldya?
>
> ;-P
>
it!
:p
Neil
Tafka
+0200 in alt.buffy.europe said:
>Tafka wrote:
>> Mattia Valente <mae.v...@std.vu.nl> on Thu, 10 Oct 2002 00:56:06
>> +0200 in alt.buffy.europe said:
>>
>>
>>>Tafka wrote:
>>>
>>>>Mattia Valente <mae.v...@std.vu.nl> on Wed, 09 Oct 2002 23:59:12
>>>>
>>>>>Tafka wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Mattia Valente <mae.v...@std.vu.nl> on Mon, 07 Oct 2002 23:04:44
>>>>>>+0200 in alt.buffy.europe said:
>>>>>>
>>>>>'cause you don't think it's worth it, or 'cause it's a little bit late
>>>>>for that?
>>>>
>>>>Just didn't have a lot to say. Angel, OTOH... I'm going to rewatch
>>>>tomorrow and post away.
>>>
>>>Weirdo. On the first count, that is.
Just noticed this:
I just didn't feel, at all, inspired to write anything. Not sure why,
really.
I started trying to think of things during "Beneath You", but - well -
not a lot came to me.
I watched it bright and early in the evening :)
-Tafka-
Ahhhh, my head. I think I'm sobering up. It's horrible.
Ah... God... I wish I was dead.
Iain Clark
<mae.v...@std.vu.nl> wrote:
>Jane Espenson's first ep, and, once again, slightly more on the horrific
>front than on the funny front.
>
Some good funny, though. Xander saving the world with his mouth <g>
>I don't really know what to make of this, actually. I mean, we get
>Willow back, but not really. We spend the ep in the 'Out of Mind, Out of
>Sight' dimension with added selective incorporeality, and, well, hmm.
>
I would have really liked this episode if weren't for the immense
cheesiness in places. Actually I did like it quite a bit, but I just
wanted to get the cheesiness mentioned up front :-) Mainly the scene
in which Willow reappeared, which was awkward, but also the Demon's
taunts which were way too overdone.
>Good things: it's a pretty solid standalone avec character arc stuff.
>We've got Willow's return, a pleasantly disquieting feel from the teaser
>onwards, some division as to the how and the what of Willow (although,
>overall, we've got lots of easy acceptance. Dawn's possible
>'confrontation' has been saved up for some other day, though.)
>
At least they addressed the fact that she murdered Warren and did some
unpleasant things to the rest of them. And spent an entire episode
doing so, sorta. I had this vague fear it would never be mentioned
again.
And we got to see the aftermath of the Magic Box scenes. I'll take
that as closure since it seems likely we'll never see that particular
set again :-)
>Plenty of continuity references: Yellow Crayon, making fun thereof, Same
>'ole infamous 'sexual tension demon locating spell' (*sigh*...I miss
>Tara.
I liked Anya's obsession with the sexiness of the spell.
>And, well, I'm going to interpret the flamey goodness as
>foreshadowing.)
Oh, definitely.
>, more obsession about the flaying (sheesh, people.
>Thanks. It was gross enough the first time.) Only thing missing was a
>'marcie' ref, really. Would've worked. But then, Espenson's only been on
>board since, what, season 3?
>
>The episode felt nice, but somehow didn't elicit much 'ooh aah'-age from
>me,
I know what you mean, but as an unspectacular episode, it was good
stuff.
>not like either of the previous episodes did. No arc stuff, no
>killing young girl somewhere in the world wakeup call (which I was sort
>of expecting..), minimal Spike (but very effective Spike. Great scene,
>that.)
I really like the new Spike. More emphasis on the mad part. Less on
the bad and dangerous to know part. :-) That scene was also one of
the clever uses of the "same time, same place" concept, after which it
really ran out of steam.
>and a, for a change, relatively interesting demon, albeit one who
>met his end rather quickly and easily.
>
>We did get some nicely eerie scenes, though.
>
Yes, although the demon was just trying too hard to be creepy. It was
that rare thing, a demon that was more effective when we saw it than
when we didn't. Was it just me or was its voice almost exactly like
"Him" from The Powerpuff Girls?
...not that I watch The Powerpuff Girls, obviously, it's just
that...okay, I watch The Powerpuff Girls.
>Now, how Willow's going to get back into the group? We get to skip a lot
>of it, which may be a good thing, since I'm quite sure we'll get more
>'dealing' later, and angst is something we get anyway
>
I was pleased that they found a metaphorical way of treating her fears
of rejection. And the title is a nice play on arranging a meeting.
>Anya....is confusing. On the one hand, funny, helpful, but on the other
>hand, what the heck does the demonness *mean* now? I mean, she's more
>sensitive than she was *before* she became a Demon again. Yeesh.
>
Well, it seems to me that she's been "tainted" by her period as a
human. Although she's a demon, she's clinging to her human sense of
morality, or at least her sense of empathy.
>Dawn is quite the investigator. Although her paralysis wasn't terribly
>convincing at times. Oops. Amusing, sure. Most especially the 'falling
>off the couch' throwaway gag.
>
That was a superb gag. But no, not terribly convincing.
>Xander and Buffy....'her man'? Er, ok. Niall's theory that they may
>become an 'item' is...I'm gonna try not to think about it. For now. Ahum.
>
Her "boy", wasn't it? Either way the implication sounded more like
servant than lover, to me.
>OK, so, mostly I'm nattering on and on. So I'll give it a rest.
>
>Bottom line, I quite like it, like the imagery, like the feel, like it
>all, really, but somehow it's lacking a certain something. Mostly, I
>think it's the cold letdown from the essentially 'arc' stuff to an
>episode that has, well, none. No dealing at all with the 'Soul' issue
>(Spike's or Anya's, I don't care). Much dancing about.
>
No problem with the lack of arcness for me. I did think the theme was
layered on with a trowel, there wasn't *quite* enough going on, the
villains's voice was a bit silly, and the sparkly effect when Willow
reappeared was quite bad.
Balancing that, the demon was cool and icky, there was some good
dialogue, a generally lighter tone without the feeling of
"domesticity" we got in early season 6, and plenty of Willow....
Mmmm.....Willow. (Including, Willow tummy! Although I can't rave
about that too much since it was having slivers of skin peeled off it
at the time....)
And I liked the last scene a lot. It's been a while since we got some
genuine Scooby bonding.
>OTOH, our MotW was nicely scary looking, rather gross, and a bit freaky.
>So yay on that count.
Yay!
Iain
--
"Caught a bolt of lightning
Cursed the day he let it go"
Iain Clark
They did nothing with her last year. Now they are. This is a good
thing.
The fact that she happens to be a demon at the moment is just one of
those things - it shouldn't mean we complain when they develop her
character :-P
Plus it's a nice irony if you think about it. She had to go back to
being a demon again to truly appreciate what she'd gained by being
human. It's given her some perspective.
I also liked her rant about teleporting being a privilege, not a
right. Although it was *so* obviously there to remove an awkward
deus-ex-machina power.
de rode ridder
"Andrew Hogg" <a.h...@sms.ed.ac.uk> schreef in bericht
news:anvp61$hir8r$1...@ID-64327.news.dfncis.de...
>
> "Dave Emberton" <notint...@notinterested.in.your.spam.com> wrote in
> message news:uq6om18...@corp.supernews.com...
> > "Mattia Valente" <mae.v...@std.vu.nl> wrote in message
> > news:3DA2CF2A...@std.vu.nl...
> > > Dave Emberton wrote:
> > > > "Mattia Valente" <mae.v...@std.vu.nl> wrote in message
> > > > news:3DA1F6EC...@std.vu.nl...
> > > >
> > > >>RATT Time! Again!
> > > >
> > > > Give us a chance! Still trying to catch up with Angel ;-)
> > >
> > > Mwah hah hah...
> >
> > Caught up now. Phew. But then it'll Firefly again in a couple of days.
> Ahhh!
> > ;-)
> >
> Nope. No new Firefly this week.
Pfff finally I can catch up.
>
Jonathan Dupont
> front than on the funny front.
Although, personally, I preferred Afterlife. Maybe the heaven reveal
helped it, but the B/S shippers mantra ("Every night I saved you" etc)
speech was also fairly good and possesed Scoobies was just slightly
more horrific.
(You were talking about Afterlife, right? I try to forget DMP
existed).
> I don't really know what to make of this, actually. I mean, we get
> Willow back, but not really. We spend the ep in the 'Out of Mind, Out of
> Sight' dimension with added selective incorporeality, and, well, hmm.
>
> Good things: it's a pretty solid standalone avec character arc stuff.
> We've got Willow's return, a pleasantly disquieting feel from the teaser
> onwards, some division as to the how and the what of Willow (although,
> overall, we've got lots of easy acceptance. Dawn's possible
> 'confrontation' has been saved up for some other day, though.)
I think they've missed out on a lot of good drama, myself. And they
really need to address Tara at some point in something more than a
momentary flashback.
> Plenty of continuity references: Yellow Crayon, making fun thereof, Same
> 'ole infamous 'sexual tension demon locating spell' (*sigh*...I miss
> Tara. And, well, I'm going to interpret the flamey goodness as
> foreshadowing.), more obsession about the flaying (sheesh, people.
> Thanks. It was gross enough the first time.) Only thing missing was a
> 'marcie' ref, really. Would've worked. But then, Espenson's only been on
> board since, what, season 3?
Continuity's been high on both shows recently, for some reason. Don't
know why, but I like it.
> The episode felt nice, but somehow didn't elicit much 'ooh aah'-age from
> me, not like either of the previous episodes did. No arc stuff, no
> killing young girl somewhere in the world wakeup call (which I was sort
> of expecting..), minimal Spike (but very effective Spike. Great scene,
> that.) and a, for a change, relatively interesting demon, albeit one who
> met his end rather quickly and easily.
The repeated Spike scene was good, and I actually didn't realise what
was going on until the second time. I didn't particularly like "I'm
insane - what's your excuse?" line though - too much of a repeat of
last week (although that may have been more Joss's fault), and just
didn't feel right to me.
> We did get some nicely eerie scenes, though.
They were, but I think they could have done more. We were never
completely convinced of her being in danger. Nearly, but not quite
IMO.
> Anya....is confusing. On the one hand, funny, helpful, but on the other
> hand, what the heck does the demonness *mean* now? I mean, she's more
> sensitive than she was *before* she became a Demon again. Yeesh.
As long as they sort out her plot soon, all is forgiven. Otherwise...
> Dawn is quite the investigator. Although her paralysis wasn't terribly
> convincing at times. Oops. Amusing, sure. Most especially the 'falling
> off the couch' throwaway gag.
Yeah... Dawn is amazingly starting to win people over. Not enough to
run her own show, but enough so that people don't hate her. Which is
always a good thing, since IMO the show can't ever kill her off.
> Xander and Buffy....'her man'? Er, ok. Niall's theory that they may
> become an 'item' is...I'm gonna try not to think about it. For now. Ahum.
I wouldn't mind S2/S3 X/B (or even X/W), but now to me it just doesn't
feel right. I'm still trying to decide whether it's better than A/C
(shudder) and X/A (which I hated).
> Bottom line, I quite like it, like the imagery, like the feel, like it
> all, really, but somehow it's lacking a certain something.
Agreed.
> Mostly, I
> think it's the cold letdown from the essentially 'arc' stuff to an
> episode that has, well, none. No dealing at all with the 'Soul' issue
> (Spike's or Anya's, I don't care). Much dancing about.
Maybe. I'd also like to see them actually use the school thing. It was
pretty interesting to see the confirmation of no more Magic Box. In
retrospect, I wish they'd made a bigger thing of destroying it at the
end of S6, as I think it would have helped the drama there.
> OTOH, our MotW was nicely scary looking, rather gross, and a bit freaky.
> So yay on that count.
>
> Mattia
Certainly off the top of my head the best they've done since Sweet.
All in all, I'm fairly positive at the moment. The previews for Buffy
and Angel next week (or tonight, come to think of it, for Angel) look
good and Firefly rocks so I'm willing to give it the benefit of the
doubt. So far all three shows have produced good episodes - but then
again, if you look at the writers they've been using, they would have
been in big trouble if they hadn't.
It's going to be interesting to see where they go from here.
Jon
Alex Farran
Just a little observation to add. In the basement scenes with Spike,
when talking to Willow ("Walloping the bad" etc) he says "Worse than
ever you are". When we hear him say the line again from Buffy's POV he
says "Worse OFF than ever you are". It looks like a continuity error,
but I don't know. It changes the sense of what he's saying quite a bit.
Alex
Millan
<snippety snip>
> >>Plenty of continuity references: Yellow Crayon, making fun thereof, Same
> >>'ole infamous 'sexual tension demon locating spell' (*sigh*...I miss
> >>Tara. And, well, I'm going to interpret the flamey goodness as
> >>foreshadowing.),
> >
> > I was slightly surprised they didn't actually make any mention of that
> > being the spell Tara deliberately screwed up (*sigh*...I miss her too).
>
> Did Tara actually ever confess to screwing up said spell, in Family? I'm
> too lazy to check and it's been too long since last I watched the ep.
Nope, never mentioned it.
> >>more obsession about the flaying (sheesh, people. Thanks. It was gross
> >>enough the first time.)
> >
> > It was even grosser this time, I thought.
>
> Well, yeah. Although when they said 'strips of skin' I was expecting
> slightly larger, bloodier strips. Ahum.
Me too, broader strips would have been more 'realistic'.
But it was really disgusting the way it was done.
<snippage>
> >>minimal Spike (but very effective Spike. Great scene, that.)
> >
> > Yeah, they're really giving James Marsters chances to show off this
> > season. And of course "I'm insane. What's *his* excuse?" :D
>
> :o)
:D
<aaand more snip>
> >>Dawn is quite the investigator.
> >
> > Indeed. And just generally so much more interesting this season. I like
> > her. :)
>
> Aye.
The character's got more substance this season than the last.
I also like her more now.
> Mattia
/Millan
...being a bit behind in the discussion, as usual...
"And when exacly did your sister get unbelievably scary?"
- Spike, 'Beneath You'