The Yoko Factor [spoilers]
george van hal
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<resumes breathing> So, that was "The Yoko Factor".....
Let me start out by saying "wow". I'm a sucker for Story arc eps and
this was most definatly a storyarc ep. And a *real* good one at that. At
this point I'm assuming this won't be a real long review, because I'm
still a bit too blown away and have to process...
First off: The Adam storyline comes to a high. Adam has been blatantly
underused as is aparant from this episode. He's really a fun character.
Some more development and some more insights into his nature could've
made him an impressive season baddy. Oh and a makeover wouldn't have
been a bad thing either ;-)
But apart from all that he is fun now. But what makes this episode
really cool is Spike. Retaking his role as a baddy. It's great to see
how he drives a wedge between all the members of the Scobbygang. All the
past problems come to a high and the charictarisation is spot on and the
acting is great. It really feels like a conclusion to all the problems
that have been stated in the fourth season. The fragmentation of the
scoobygang, the willow/tara thing, the uselessness of Xander and Giles
and the whole Riley/Angel thing with Buffy. All issues are delt with and
all isseus are delt with satisfactory. Of course we still have to see
the scoobygang come together again next ep and unite against Adam to
have a new strong front for next season which will be focusing on family
and friendship....but I'm sure that will happen (it would be weird if it
didn't).
All in all this episode was mostly about redifining this seasons
problems and solving some (like the Riley/Angel thing) in some places.
It was funny and dramatic, but in exactly the right balance. A rewatch
is in order. Especially for some of those hysterical Giles scenes...
Anyways I'll be leaving you with my rating: 9/10
See Ya,
George
Saskia
george van hal schreef:
Yep!
> I'm a sucker for Story arc eps
Me too!
> But apart from all that he is fun now. But what makes this episode
> really cool is Spike. Retaking his role as a baddy.
Agreed :-)
> All in all this episode was mostly about redifining this seasons
> problems and solving some (like the Riley/Angel thing) in some places.
> It was funny and dramatic, but in exactly the right balance. A rewatch /
Absolutely.
I was very happy that Angel came to Sunnydale to clear the air with
Buffy after the fight they had in last week's (for me anyway) "Angel"
(I am so happy to be 5by5!) and to give Riley something I've been
wanting to give him myself a few times... :-)
There's one thing I didn't understand - maybe because I missed half of
last week's episode - which was Willow talking about her living
arrangements. Isn't she sharing that room with Buffy anymore?
> is in order. Especially for some of those hysterical Giles scenes...
He cracked me up with the "bloody hell" cry from upstairs when someone
(Xander?) mentioned the Willow/Tara/girlfriend thing :-))
--
Saskia
george van hal
Saskia wrote:
<snip lots of agreeing)
> I was very happy that Angel came to Sunnydale to clear the air with
> Buffy after the fight they had in last week's (for me anyway) "Angel"
> (I am so happy to be 5by5!) and to give Riley something I've been
> wanting to give him myself a few times... :-)
Me too! I liked the way the handled things there as well though. Its definatly
over between Buffy and Angel romantically but at least they're on speaking
terms again. Which is a good thing...
> There's one thing I didn't understand - maybe because I missed half of
> last week's episode - which was Willow talking about her living
> arrangements. Isn't she sharing that room with Buffy anymore?
As I understand it, after the spohomore year at college you get to pick your
own room mate. So after the first year the room arangements get renewed by
default...
Someone able to shed more light on this situation?
> > is in order. Especially for some of those hysterical Giles scenes...
>
> He cracked me up with the "bloody hell" cry from upstairs when someone
> (Xander?) mentioned the Willow/Tara/girlfriend thing :-))
I missed that one! Was way too busy cracking up with Xanders reaction. Must
rewatch very soon indeed, 'cause this sounds funny as hell!!
See Ya,
George
Who's extremly glad Saskia's back!
Jonathan Black
> I was very happy that Angel came to Sunnydale to clear the
> air with Buffy after the fight they had in last week's (for
> me anyway) "Angel" [...]
Oh, don't add that "for me anyway"-- it's last week's Angel,
period ;-))
> (I am so happy to be 5by5!)
It feels good. I don't mean to brag, but I have to say I got
quite a kick out of Tony's recap voiceover tonight. At first I
was disappointed when he only began with a "Previously, on Buffy
the Vampire Slayer...", 'cause I was definitely expecting a recap
to Angel's `Sanctuary', but when he continued with "... and on
Angel..."... I don't know, call me crazy, but it just felt like
confirmation from Giles himself that 5x5 is the only way to be.
If I needed anymore assurance that the waiting was worth it, I
got it at that moment. I think I can say at this point, that for
me the whole 5x5 thing is too good to let go of, and I plan to
continue it on into the next season. It's early days yet as to
how seaons 5/2 will be airing in NL, but if they're at all out
sync again, I think you'll find me willing to do the necessary
taping. I don't want to get into spoilers here, but I get the
feeling that, contrary to previous statements, the crossovers are
far from gone in the new season, and there's some pretty cool
stuff coming up.
Anyway, back to `The Yoko Factor'. I have to admit, I was kind of
surprised to see you guys with the jaws on the floor and all. I
didn't think it was that good an ep on first viewing, I was a bit
disappointed with it. I do get that a lot, though, usually a
rewatch fixes it ;-) Stuff felt a little unnatural and rushed to
me, the story just didn't quite click. I feel last week's `New
Moon Rising' was far better, though I guess that isn't saying
much. Again, rewatch will tell.
Oh, and great to have you back here, Saskia.
Bye,
--
J o N a T H a N
QuoteMeister[tm]
Willow: "I am a whiz."
Tara: "She is a whiz."
Willow: "If ever a whiz there was."
--`The Yoko Factor'
Buffy the Vampire Slayer
Saskia
Peter Kleiweg schreef:
>
> Jonathan Black skriver...
>
> > I think I can say at this point, that for
> > me the whole 5x5 thing is too good to let go of, and I plan to
> > continue it on into the next season.
>
> You might consider moving to Scotland. Seems they got Buffy and
> Angel really in sink, showing both shows on the same day and
> time.
Now there's a place way on the top of my list! Can I come too?
--
Saskia
meanwhile... http://come.to/nkSF
Saskia
Jonathan Black schreef:
>
> Saskia wrote:
>
> > > p
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> > >
> >
> > (I am so happy to be 5by5!)
> I don't want to get into spoilers here, but I get the
> feeling that, contrary to previous statements, the crossovers are
> far from gone in the new season, and there's some pretty cool
> stuff coming up.
I hope so! I like cross-overs... I'm a big sucker for cross-overs :-)
> Anyway, back to `The Yoko Factor'. I have to admit, I was kind of
> surprised to see you guys with the jaws on the floor and all.
Maybe it wasn't that great but I was so in the mood for a new Buffy ep
that I would have loved anything :-)
> Oh, and great to have you back here, Saskia.
Thanks. George too. It's good to be back :-)
Saskia
Jonathan Black
Peter's joking, of course. They may be on the same day (though in
fact, I believe Angel's moving to Tuesday), but they're not in
sync at all, Angel started a few weeks early compared to BBC
TWO's BtVS S4, and is now going even further ahead, thanks to
Channel 4 deciding to start showing two episodes a week, probably
in an attempt to get rid of the show as quickly as possible after
they've made a complete mess of it, cut minutes of footage out of
every episode in a very bad, bad way, and are now even deciding
to *skip* three episodes because they're too violent or
something, including `I Will Remember You', so the viewers can
kiss goodbye to that crossover....
If you meant Sky, on the other hand, sure, that rules. Full
in-sync coverage of Buffy S5 / Angel S2 should be starting there
in less than two months from now :)
george van hal
Jonathan Black wrote:
> Saskia wrote:
>
> > george van hal schreef:
> >
> > > Spoilers for "The Yoko Factor" Buffy season 4, ep 20
> > >
> > > s
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> > >
>
<snip 5x5 stuff>
> Anyway, back to `The Yoko Factor'. I have to admit, I was kind of
> surprised to see you guys with the jaws on the floor and all. I
> didn't think it was that good an ep on first viewing, I was a bit
> disappointed with it. I do get that a lot, though, usually a
> rewatch fixes it ;-)
Well that is weird. I experienced this episode as one of the best of the
season. The pacing was perfect, the story was perfect. Even spike was
perfect. I really can't think of a bad thing to say about this episode
except: Too bad Primeval didn't air directly behind it. I know Saskia
really liked this episode as well. It seems we need Mattia to even
things out. Where is that guy anyways ;-)
> Stuff felt a little unnatural and rushed to
> me, the story just didn't quite click. I feel last week's `New
> Moon Rising' was far better, though I guess that isn't saying
> much. Again, rewatch will tell.
"New Moon Rising" was *different* it was a low action small in set-up
high on drama ep. An absolutly stunning episode and one of the best of
the season. Tonights episode was more of a "bring out the big guns"
more actions packed and higher paced episode that one normally finds
towards the end of a season. These types of eps I like about as well as
the more silent easy going ones. Especially when it's a high quality
piece of writing. If we had these type of eps earlier on in the season
there wouldn't have been any problems with it. The second part of s4
rules!
See Ya,
George
Being completly optimistic!
Jonathan Black
Hehe, you were so disgusted with that gratuitous piece of 5x5
ranting and raving, that you aren't even going to respond to it,
right? ;-))
> > Anyway, back to `The Yoko Factor'. I have to admit, I was
> > kind of surprised to see you guys with the jaws on the floor
> > and all. I didn't think it was that good an ep on first
> > viewing, I was a bit disappointed with it. I do get that a
> > lot, though, usually a rewatch fixes it ;-)
>
> Well that is weird. I experienced this episode as one of the
> best of the season. The pacing was perfect, the story was
> perfect. Even spike was perfect.
Really, well I'll take your word for it then, and try a rewatch
later this week. The pacing felt horrible to me tonight, the
writing felt off, the jokes irritated me, etc., etc. It must be
just me!
> I really can't think of a bad thing to say about this episode
> except: Too bad Primeval didn't air directly behind it.
Oh no, I kinda like the wait for a continuation.
> I know Saskia really liked this episode as well. It seems we
> need Mattia to even things out. Where is that guy anyways ;-)
Probably in France or something.
> > I feel last week's `New Moon Rising' was far better, though I
> > guess that isn't saying much. Again, rewatch will tell.
>
> "New Moon Rising" was *different* it was a low action small
> in set-up high on drama ep. An absolutly stunning episode and
> one of the best of the season. Tonights episode was more of a
> "bring out the big guns" more actions packed and higher paced
> episode that one normally finds towards the end of a season.
Yeah, but I didn't really feel it deliver on that.
> These types of eps I like about as well as the more silent
> easy going ones. Especially when it's a high quality piece of
> writing. If we had these type of eps earlier on in the season
> there wouldn't have been any problems with it. The second
> part of s4 rules!
Well, let me just say I admire your optimism, George. I'm sure
I'll be able to share it some rewatching and a good talk to
myself or something.
Bye ;-))
george van hal
Jonathan Black wrote:
Right ;-)) I'm glad you guys are glad to be 5x5! But with me getting
season 5 on cd this year, I really don't think I'll *ever* be 5x5 :-)
> > Well that is weird. I experienced this episode as one of the
> > best of the season. The pacing was perfect, the story was
> > perfect. Even spike was perfect.
>
> Really, well I'll take your word for it then, and try a rewatch
> later this week. The pacing felt horrible to me tonight, the
> writing felt off, the jokes irritated me, etc., etc. It must be
> just me!
Perhaps. It could also be that I was just in the perfect Buffy mood this
evening. Or perhaps a combination of the two?
Let us know what you think after a rewatch? I'll be rewatching sometime
this week as well, to see if my original observations hold...
> > I really can't think of a bad thing to say about this episode
> > except: Too bad Primeval didn't air directly behind it.
>
> Oh no, I kinda like the wait for a continuation.
Well, yeah. Me too actually. So there's actually *nothing* wrong with
this ep?
Well, no not that either. I can think of a few things that were weird,
but that didn't bother me. Buffy finding Adam and Forest at the same
time for instance. That was weird....
> > I know Saskia really liked this episode as well. It seems we
> > need Mattia to even things out. Where is that guy anyways ;-)
>
> Probably in France or something.
I'm guessing so as well......
> >Tonights episode was more of a
> > "bring out the big guns" more actions packed and higher paced
> > episode that one normally finds towards the end of a season.
>
> Yeah, but I didn't really feel it deliver on that.
Rewatch?
> > These types of eps I like about as well as the more silent
> > easy going ones. Especially when it's a high quality piece of
> > writing. If we had these type of eps earlier on in the season
> > there wouldn't have been any problems with it. The second
> > part of s4 rules!
>
> Well, let me just say I admire your optimism, George. I'm sure
> I'll be able to share it some rewatching and a good talk to
> myself or something.
Yes! Try it! Being optimistic about an episode is really a lot of fun!
See Ya,
George
P@rick
> I think I can say at this point, that for me the whole 5x5 thing is
too good > to let go of, and I plan to continue it on into the next
season
But I hope that it's supported more broadly next time. Because there
really isn't much discussion about the Angel eps. And that's a big
shame, and a drawback of the '5x5' project :o(
Bye, Patrick
P@rick
> You might consider moving to Scotland. Seems they got Buffy and
> Angel really in sink, showing both shows on the same day and
> time.
Why not move to the US? Then you even get to see the new eps sooner than
everyone else.
Bye, Patrick
@nkhoŽ
"george van hal" <hal0...@wxs.nl> schreef in bericht
news:3A05B493...@wxs.nl...
> Spoilers for "The Yoko Factor" Buffy season 4, ep 20
>
> s
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>
> this was most definatly a storyarc ep. And a *real* good one at that. At
> this point I'm assuming this won't be a real long review, because I'm
> still a bit too blown away and have to process...
agree, very good episode.Good storyline, good ass-kicking(sorry, bottom
bashing :o) )
first class episode, I needed that.
> First off: The Adam storyline comes to a high. Adam has been blatantly
> underused as is aparant from this episode. He's really a fun character.
Hmmm more a walking nintendo. ;o)
> Some more development and some more insights into his nature could've
> made him an impressive season baddy. Oh and a makeover wouldn't have
> been a bad thing either ;-)
Hmm you mean a reboot?;o)
> But apart from all that he is fun now. But what makes this episode
> really cool is Spike. Retaking his role as a baddy. It's great to see
> how he drives a wedge between all the members of the Scoobygang.
Yeah, he was really a good baddy, he is adapting to a more cunning
way of being evil. A good thing, his real nature can`t be supressed.
> All the
> past problems come to a high and the charictarisation is spot on and the
> acting is great. It really feels like a conclusion to all the problems
> that have been stated in the fourth season. The fragmentation of the
> scoobygang, the willow/tara thing, the uselessness of Xander and Giles
Yeah all bad things.
> and the whole Riley/Angel thing with Buffy. All issues are dealt with and
> all issues are dealt with satisfactory.
Well,... almost, There wasn`t really a resolve.
> Of course we still have to see
> the scoobygang come together again next ep and unite against Adam to
> have a new strong front for next season which will be focusing on family
> and friendship....but I'm sure that will happen (it would be weird if it
> didn't).
One never knows.
>
> All in all this episode was mostly about redifining this seasons
> problems and solving some (like the Riley/Angel thing) in some places.
> It was funny and dramatic, but in exactly the right balance. A rewatch
> is in order.
I have done.
> Especially for some of those hysterical Giles scenes...
how do you mean .;o\
>=o)
> Anyways I'll be leaving you with my rating: 9/10
totally deserved.
> See Ya,
> George
ankhor.
(although some nice demon character problem would have been nice too.)
@nkhoŽ
"P@rick" <P.J.Mee...@students.fss.VampWillow.uu.nl> schreef in bericht
news:8u6hnv$r68$7...@news.surfnet.nl...
hmmm, maybe when real broadband gets here, I find a nice american
to stream the newest episode to me live, now that would be cool. :o)
> Bye, Patrick
>
>
george van hal
"P@rick" wrote:
It's a definate problem. I for one will never ever be 5x5 since I want to
see the latest eps at the soonest possible time. If someone offered me a
tape of the s5 season finale (not that it has been filmed yet, but still)
I'd hit the play button right now.
As for the discussions, that's a consequence of being 5x5. The people who
aren't 5x5 mostly don't feel like discussing the eps again and the fact
that the 5x5-ers themselves mostly can't even be bothered doesn't make
for a strong case. I still completly understand why anyone would want to
be 5x5, but I definatly hope everyone'll be coming to their senses before
the start of next season. A part of the enjoyment of Buffy is seeing the
views of others after the episode has aired. And the whole 5x5 thing is
kinda taking that away. After I've seen an ep I loved or hated I now
can't go online to share those feelings or get different opinions thrown
at me. Which is a shame, really. Rewatching the eps on sunday mostly
doesn't work for me and on monday we're confornted with another Angel, so
when I could be discussing the episodes it's mostly been about 5 weeks
(or somewhat less) since I last saw them. Which makes for less
enthusiastic discussion for me. Now that all of you have allmost finished
with this 5x5 project ask yourself the question what you'd rather do.
Another season of waiting, just because it's how the episodes air in
america and you might better understand (not even enjoy) one or two
scenes every ten eps or so, or do you jump on any new episode you can get
your hands on, thus forcing us to one general time we watch and discuss
our eps? Think about it...
See Ya,
George
Jonathan Black
> "P@rick" wrote:
>
> > But I hope that it's supported more broadly next
> > time. Because there really isn't much discussion about the
> > Angel eps. And that's a big shame, and a drawback of the
> > '5x5' project :o(
>
> It's a definate problem. I for one will never ever be 5x5
> since I want to see the latest eps at the soonest possible
> time.
One thing I don't get, george, if you're getting S5 via
downloads, on CD or whatever, you could get Angel S2 at the same
time and watch them in the right order, yes? That's what I'd do.
I may even do it once S4's over on Net5. Or are you less
interested in Angel or something?
> As for the discussions, that's a consequence of being 5x5.
> The people who aren't 5x5 mostly don't feel like discussing
> the eps again and the fact that the 5x5-ers themselves mostly
> can't even be bothered doesn't make for a strong case. I
> still completly understand why anyone would want to be 5x5,
> but I definatly hope everyone'll be coming to their senses
> before the start of next season. A part of the enjoyment of
> Buffy is seeing the views of others after the episode has
> aired. And the whole 5x5 thing is kinda taking that away.
Well, let me just first say that the start of the new seasons on
Dutch TV is a still long way off, probably March/April 2001 or
something like that, and there is of course no reason to assume
that they will be airing 5 weeks apart like they are now. It
could be 10, it could be 2, it could be anything. So I can't
really say yet what exactly I plan to do. If it's a couple of
weeks difference like now, I'd probably do the waiting; if it's
significantly more, I may not. But frankly, it's such a long way
off, that I fully see myself getting hold of the eps some other
way long before they ever come to NL TV. By your logic, that
would be a crime too, would it not? For how are we going to be
able to discuss the eps together at the same time, if people
start doing that?
<snip the rest of your post>
OK, so basically what you're saying is that "we 5x5 people" are
being selfish and you're asking us to give up "our" airing order
in favor of whatever comes on TV, so you we can discuss the eps
together at that time. In a way, I don't see why we should. Could
I not just as well ask *you* to give in already and stop
overrating the BS order the stations put out the eps in?
Sorry if I that sounds unreasonable, but it's kind of the way I
feel :)
george van hal
Jonathan Black wrote:
> > It's a definate problem. I for one will never ever be 5x5
> > since I want to see the latest eps at the soonest possible
> > time.
>
> One thing I don't get, george, if you're getting S5 via
> downloads, on CD or whatever, you could get Angel S2 at the same
> time and watch them in the right order, yes? That's what I'd do.
> I may even do it once S4's over on Net5. Or are you less
> interested in Angel or something?
I'm desperatly seeking out Angel s2 as well. Because of the background
I'm a tad bit more interested in Buffy. On the whole Angel s1 was better
though, so I'm definatly a huge Angel fan as well. It's just that I feel
more connected to Buffy. But that's sort off beside the point. I really
want Angel s2. It's just that the second season of Angel is harder to
get. So when I'll be getting it, it'll probably be at a later time as
the Buffy eps (which seem to be more widly spread on the internet -
don't really know why though).....
> > As for the discussions, that's a consequence of being 5x5.
> > The people who aren't 5x5 mostly don't feel like discussing
> > the eps again and the fact that the 5x5-ers themselves mostly
> > can't even be bothered doesn't make for a strong case. I
> > still completly understand why anyone would want to be 5x5,
> > but I definatly hope everyone'll be coming to their senses
> > before the start of next season. A part of the enjoyment of
> > Buffy is seeing the views of others after the episode has
> > aired. And the whole 5x5 thing is kinda taking that away.
>
> Well, let me just first say that the start of the new seasons on
> Dutch TV is a still long way off, probably March/April 2001 or
> something like that, and there is of course no reason to assume
> that they will be airing 5 weeks apart like they are now. It
> could be 10, it could be 2, it could be anything. So I can't
> really say yet what exactly I plan to do. If it's a couple of
> weeks difference like now, I'd probably do the waiting; if it's
> significantly more, I may not.
Yep. It's still a long way off. Of course the eps could be airing in
perfect synch when the new seasons start up (I know we're lobbying with
the fanclub for just that with the networks). I just know that if the
episodes air out of synch that I won't be doing the 5x5 thing. Apart
from the discussion thing I really haven't regretted my decission not to
be 5x5 one minute.
> But frankly, it's such a long way
> off, that I fully see myself getting hold of the eps some other
> way long before they ever come to NL TV.
I'm doing the same thing. I'm getting Buffy s5on cd now (with the help
of a certain nksf poster ;-)). If you want them as well just send me an
"e" and I'm sure we could work something out ;-) As mentioned I'm still
working on Angel s2.
I just assumed, because of the whole 5x5 thing, that you wouldn't be
interested in seeing the new Buffys *or* Angels if you couldn't get your
hands on both of them at the same time so you could immitate the
american airing order. To me that's something I almost can't imagine. I
simply can't picture myself saying "So, these are the first 3 eps of
Buffy s5? Thanks! I won't be watching them untill I get the Angel eps of
course because otherwise I might not understand a scene of otherwise I
might get less enjoyment out of the eps" If it was me (and it will be
;-)), I'll probably get that "must see buffy now" thing in my eyes and
pop the cd into the player right away. That to me has nothing to do with
the airing order at the networks. I'd like it if they aired the eps in
synch because it's the way they're supposed to be aired. That's the
"Joss's intention" purist in me. But sometimes I feel like this whole
5x5 thing was just a thing based on principles. "This is the way they
air in amerika, so this is the way we have to see them". Now with the
heavy cross-over end stretch of Buffy I could understand where you guys
were coming from. I mostly solve any continuity issues in one of the
rewatches. Which is the best compromise between seeing the eps asap (the
most important thing to me) and the purist side in me. But with the new
seasons it'll be more or less pointless for the bulk of the episodes. So
why wait is what I'm asking. What good reason apart from "it's the way
it's meant to be" is there to keep eps on ice. I can also understand it
as a stnad up against the networks. Sort of a "if you won't give it in
the right order, I'll make it in the right order" kind of thing. I can
apreciate that. Especially on principles. But I just can't imagine
anyone invloved with Buffy like all of us on this group so very
obviously are turning down that cd with season 5 episodes.....
> By your logic, that
> would be a crime too, would it not? For how are we going to be
> able to discuss the eps together at the same time, if people
> start doing that?
Nope. What I was saying was how I felt sorry about the way discussion on
the Angel eps have been going. I was explaining it, there is no right or
wrong there, no "crime" as you put it. I was pointing out how the 5x5
thing has been the main reason behind this lack of discussion. Of course
there have been other factors (regulars being busy etc.), but however
much you support being 5x5 you can't deny that the 5x5 thing has party
caused the lack of discussion. This doesn't make the choice to be 5x5
any less valid. It's just another thing to consider, like it or not.....
> <snip the rest of your post>
>
> OK, so basically what you're saying is that "we 5x5 people" are
> being selfish and you're asking us to give up "our" airing order
> in favor of whatever comes on TV, so you we can discuss the eps
> together at that time.
Well that's a little too black and white for me. But yes, I was asking
"you 5x5-ers" (I hate labels, don't you?) to at least consider it. Is
that such a bad thing? "You 5x5-ers" have asked me on more than one
occasion when this whole thing was starting up to be 5x5. Now I'm doing
the opposite. Where's the harm in that? I feel we should be able to
discuss these things freely, we're all in the same camp basically. After
reading your post I almost feel like I attacked you personally by saying
something negative about the 5x5 thing. Now I know that that probably
wasn't your intention, but at times it feels like it's starting to be
the accepted choice both here and in nksf to be 5x5 and having an other
opinion is almost a crime (there's that nasty word again;-)). That
shouldn't be the case. At least, imho.....
> In a way, I don't see why we should. Could
> I not just as well ask *you* to give in already and stop
> overrating the BS order the stations put out the eps in?
That's valid as well. It should be freely discussed. I could ask you
guys to reconsider and you guys could ask me to reconsider at any
particular time. That's the whole point.
> Sorry if I that sounds unreasonable, but it's kind of the way I
> feel :)
I can understand that. Sometimes I feel my arguments against 5x5 are
simply brushed away because it's just "better" to be 5x5. I still don't
see that, personally. But I'll keep on respecting anyone's choice to be
5x5. It's just that if people would come up to me and ask for advice,
I'd still say : Don't be 5x5.
Oh and if this post came across as being a bit strong, I'm sorry :-) Not
trying to do this in the wrong atmosphere. As far as I'm concerned we're
all still friends here. It's just that this 5x5 thing bothers me from
time to time. That may be a selfish feeling, but it's still there :-)
See Ya,
George
Who's urging anyone not to take this too heavy-weighted. Usenet can have
that effect sometimes. Even when using smileys :-)
wheez50
> > george van hal schreef:
> > > Spoilers for "The Yoko Factor" Buffy season 4, ep 20
> > >
> > > s
> > > p
> > > o
> > > i
> > > l
> > > e
> > > r
> > > s
> > > p
> > > a
> > > c
> > > e
> > > a
> > > n
> > > d
> > > a
> > > b
> > > i
> > > t
> > > m
> > > o
> > > r
> > > e
> >
>
> <snip lots of agreeing)
ditto
> > He cracked me up with the "bloody hell" cry from upstairs when
someone
> > (Xander?) mentioned the Willow/Tara/girlfriend thing :-))
>
> I missed that one! Was way too busy cracking up with Xanders
reaction. Must
> rewatch very soon indeed, 'cause this sounds funny as hell!!
I've teached myself to hold the first cramps. Only the second cramp
is double worse ('nd i'm going all rolling on floors and such). This
case you really should rewatch. On bloody hell i flipped out,
remembered there were some people sleeping, rewinded the vcr a bit
and continued the show...
WheeZ50 (i'd rate it 9.5/10. Pure buffy.)
wheez50
ditto and some more
> ... as well. It seems we need Mattia to even
> things out. Where is that guy anyways ;-)
c TOG "question 14"
> > Stuff felt a little unnatural and rushed to
> > me, the story just didn't quite click. I feel last week's `New
> > Moon Rising' was far better, though I guess that isn't saying
> > much. Again, rewatch will tell.
>
> "New Moon Rising" was *different* it was a low action small in
set-up
> high on drama ep. An absolutly stunning episode and one of the
best of
> the season. Tonights episode was more of a "bring out the big
guns"
> more actions packed and higher paced episode that one normally
finds
> towards the end of a season. These types of eps I like about as
well as
> the more silent easy going ones. Especially when it's a high
quality
> piece of writing. If we had these type of eps earlier on in the
season
> there wouldn't have been any problems with it. The second part of
s4
> rules!
While "New Moon Rising" a very fine ep was because it had a buffy
feel (and some positive things all considered), tonights had too.
But it also had a very everythings goin' awry feel. I'd even see it
as a season-climax. All loose threads come together etc.
I can imagine JB didn't like it much, because its not what were used
to. It's a whole new buffy. I was impressed by the vicious responses
of both riley and willow. Remember the soft characters they should
have. It's not bad play, but good writing (just imagine yourself in
them...) (btw i'm actually saying her that you (jb)'re not imagining
enough and such, but it's not meant pers but more as a positive
comment, to let you see the sub-obvious quality... should i
continue? i think not)
I liked it
WheeZ50 (bloody hell .... )
Mattia Valente
> george van hal wrote:
> > It's a definate problem. I for one will never ever be 5x5
> > since I want to see the latest eps at the soonest possible
> > time.
>
> One thing I don't get, george, if you're getting S5 via
> downloads, on CD or whatever, you could get Angel S2 at the same
> time and watch them in the right order, yes? That's what I'd do.
> I may even do it once S4's over on Net5. Or are you less
> interested in Angel or something?
Hmmm...as I see it, the new season's don't really align like this pair
did; less, if any, crossovers happening this time around. I'm always
(still) more interested in Buffy eps than in Angel eps, I must say, but
even if I do download a number of eps before they actally air over here,
I'm still going to be watching, recording and reviewing the NL airings
here, not going to flit off to US NGs to discuss, since I'll be too slow
and too late for that anyway. I hope you all do the same, because I
would hate to have everyone just dissapear off into the distance because
of the advent of broadband internet. I'm taking Xander X as an example
here...discussions here (and in ToG[tm], but mostly here) are, to me, a
significant part of the ep viewing experience. How do you guys feel
about that?
> > before the start of next season. A part of the enjoyment of
> > Buffy is seeing the views of others after the episode has
> > aired. And the whole 5x5 thing is kinda taking that away.
So that's a yes for George, anyway....shoulda known ;-)
> Well, let me just first say that the start of the new seasons on
> Dutch TV is a still long way off, probably March/April 2001 or
> something like that, and there is of course no reason to assume
> that they will be airing 5 weeks apart like they are now. It
True enough, it's gonig to be a long long wait. At least we'll have
things like BBC repeats to keep us gonig :-)
> could be 10, it could be 2, it could be anything. So I can't
> really say yet what exactly I plan to do.
True enough..I'm guessing it won't be too hugeley different though;
hopefully the fanclub will keep lobbying for some sort of
semi-coordination (hint, hint ;-)
> If it's a couple of
> weeks difference like now, I'd probably do the waiting; if it's
> significantly more, I may not.
More importantly for me is going to be this: By the time the eps start
airing, a good deal of S5 will have already hit the US screens. I'm
hoping Miriam will be able to tell us whether or not there are any
crossovers, and what kind of crossovers we're talking about (I mean, I'm
not going to hold off on watching for a Pangs/IWRY style cross..)
> But frankly, it's such a long way
> off, that I fully see myself getting hold of the eps some other
> way long before they ever come to NL TV.
All of them? That would be quite a job..also, I again ask; still watch
them when they're on TV? Hop over and join in the fun reveiwing stuff?
> By your logic, that
> would be a crime too, would it not? For how are we going to be
> able to discuss the eps together at the same time, if people
> start doing that?
Well, crime, no. As long as you go discuss the eps when they do
eventually air on Dutch TV. I see a difference between these two things,
to be perfectly honest: To get a hold of an ep early, and not discuss it
is not the same as not watching an ep for weeks while it has been on TV
already. Different kinds of waiting.
> <snip the rest of your post>
>
> OK, so basically what you're saying is that "we 5x5 people" are
> being selfish and you're asking us to give up "our" airing order
> in favor of whatever comes on TV, so you we can discuss the eps
> together at that time. In a way, I don't see why we should. Could
> I not just as well ask *you* to give in already and stop
> overrating the BS order the stations put out the eps in?
Well, we could ask him to hold off discussing the eps, anyway :-)
As for the whole 5x5 thing; I'm gald I did it this time around, but
quite honestly, I doubt I'll be doing it for a whole pair of seasons;
the way things look now (rumors 'n all that..) the crossover-age between
the shows is gonig to be minimal at best, a good deal less than last
season. In fact, the only rumored crossover I've heard about isn't
really a cross, as such (if I've understood it correctly..)
> Sorry if I that sounds unreasonable, but it's kind of the way I
> feel :)
:-P
But you will pop in and discuss post-NL airing, won't you? Even if you
do get all the eps off the net a long time before that...
Mattia
ReplyMeister[tm]
Mattia Valente
> Jonathan Black wrote:
> > downloads, on CD or whatever, you could get Angel S2 at the same
> > time and watch them in the right order, yes? That's what I'd do.
> > I may even do it once S4's over on Net5. Or are you less
> > interested in Angel or something?
>
> I'm desperatly seeking out Angel s2 as well. Because of the background
> I'm a tad bit more interested in Buffy.
My feelings exactly, even after S4 and S1 of Angel..
> On the whole Angel s1 was better
> though, so I'm definatly a huge Angel fan as well. It's just that I feel
> more connected to Buffy. But that's sort off beside the point.
Right.
> I really
> want Angel s2. It's just that the second season of Angel is harder to
> get. So when I'll be getting it, it'll probably be at a later time as
> the Buffy eps (which seem to be more widly spread on the internet -
> don't really know why though).....
Well, I'm not sure about the more/less widely spread..depends where you
get them from I guess...I don't know if the Angel eps are posted to the
NGs though..
> Yep. It's still a long way off. Of course the eps could be airing in
> perfect synch when the new seasons start up (I know we're lobbying with
> the fanclub for just that with the networks).
Wohoo!!
> I just know that if the
> episodes air out of synch that I won't be doing the 5x5 thing. Apart
> from the discussion thing I really haven't regretted my decission not to
> be 5x5 one minute.
I've never regretted my descision to be 5x5 (well, after I got over the
temptation to watch ;-) for now, but I doubt I'll do it for a full
season, to be honest. Too much self control needed for that. Say, for
example, that Buffy Season 5 starts up before Angel Season 2, I would
never ever, not in a million years, be 5x5. Even if it was only a year.
I'm too much of a Buffy fan for that (I'm a big Angel fan too, now, but
Buffy is the show I grew to know and love first. With Angel, I could
just barely pull it off.)
> > But frankly, it's such a long way
> > off, that I fully see myself getting hold of the eps some other
> > way long before they ever come to NL TV.
>
> I'm doing the same thing. I'm getting Buffy s5on cd now (with the help
> of a certain nksf poster ;-)). If you want them as well just send me an
> "e" and I'm sure we could work something out ;-) As mentioned I'm still
> working on Angel s2.
Right..but still discussions post NL-airing right? Right?
> I'd like it if they aired the eps in
> synch because it's the way they're supposed to be aired. That's the
> "Joss's intention" purist in me. But sometimes I feel like this whole
> 5x5 thing was just a thing based on principles.
It is, in part, but also it was sort of necessary in a moderately large
way to get the most out of the TYG/WAY/FbF/S '4 parter'. IMHO.
> Now with the
> heavy cross-over end stretch of Buffy I could understand where you guys
> were coming from.
Er...right. That's the only reason I actually did it, in the end. A
Principle alone wasn't going to be enough.
<SNIP rest, kinda dealt with most of the issues already..>
Mattia
ReplyMeister[tm]
Jonathan Black
[S5/S2 on NL TV]
> Yep. It's still a long way off. Of course the eps could be
> airing in perfect synch when the new seasons start up (I know
> we're lobbying with the fanclub for just that with the
> networks).
That's good. I hear there's some sort of reshuffle thing in the
works in Dutch TV land, whereby the SBS company (which includes
Net5, of course) are going to acquire FOX8 and I think also
Veronica, or at least the name Veronica, as the Vereniging
Veronica is leaving the HMG and going in with SBS or something
like that, leaving the station now called Veronica behind under
the name The Young One. Don't know if I've got all this exactly
right, or when it all takes effect, but anyway, it sounds like at
the end of all that, BtVS and Angel will no longer be in the
hands of competing companies, which would make it a lot easier to
get the stations to show them in order, yes?
> I just know that if the episodes air out of synch that I
> won't be doing the 5x5 thing. Apart from the discussion thing
> I really haven't regretted my decission not to be 5x5 one
> minute.
I know this, george, I think we've been over it a couple of times
before :) I understand your position and respect it, but my own
remains somewhat different. I realize it matters little for most
of the episodes, but nonetheless the out-of-syncness has bugged
ever since I started watching Angel. So I don't regret doing the
5x5 thing at all, in fact it has exceeded my expectations; e.g.
when I started it, I didn't even know about the crossover aspects
of episodes 19 and 20 (though unfortunately I failed to remain
sompletely unspoiled for them until their 5x5 airdates ;))
> > But frankly, it's such a long way off, that I fully see
> > myself getting hold of the eps some other way long before
> > they ever come to NL TV.
>
> I'm doing the same thing. I'm getting Buffy s5on cd now (with
> the help of a certain nksf poster ;-)). If you want them as
> well just send me an "e" and I'm sure we could work something
> out ;-) As mentioned I'm still working on Angel s2.
>
> I just assumed, because of the whole 5x5 thing, that you
> wouldn't be interested in seeing the new Buffys *or* Angels
> if you couldn't get your hands on both of them at the same
> time so you could immitate the american airing order.
Correct. If I was going to take the trouble of getting hold of
the eps in such ways, I think I'd feel I might as well "do it
right", in that sense. Thank you for the offer, I will keep it in
mind, but this does bring me to one of my other points. You say
you like being able to hit the group and discuss the eps you've
just watched and the the 5x5 Project has sort of taken away from
that, which is a valid point, but I have to ask, will getting
hold of early copies of the new seasons' eps not have a similar
adverse effect, perhaps even more so? Do you plan to start
threads on those S5 eps and discuss them with those who have seen
them too? Not everybody will be able to join in, and in a sense
that would "sabotage" the discussion to take place at the time
when the eps finally air on TV over here. I'm not saying I have
anything against that, not at all, we've already had Miriam's
spoiler reviews of the S5 eps so far, which I have no problem
with at all, but one could ask what's the point of having this
"alt.buffy.europe" group if we're going to talk about episodes
which haven't yet aired here? I dunno, I'm just saying this sort
of makes me reluctant to "support" "import episodes" in the same
sort of way as that argument you make against the 5x5 thing.
Doesn't mean I won't do it myself.
> To me that's something I almost can't imagine. I simply can't
> picture myself saying "So, these are the first 3 eps of Buffy
> s5? Thanks! I won't be watching them untill I get the Angel
> eps of course because otherwise I might not understand a
> scene of otherwise I might get less enjoyment out of the eps"
:))) I just *love* being made fun of like that ;-)))))
> If it was me (and it will be ;-)), I'll probably get that
> "must see buffy now" thing in my eyes and pop the cd into the
> player right away. That to me has nothing to do with the
> airing order at the networks. I'd like it if they aired the
> eps in synch because it's the way they're supposed to be
> aired. That's the "Joss's intention" purist in me. But
> sometimes I feel like this whole 5x5 thing was just a thing
> based on principles. "This is the way they air in amerika, so
> this is the way we have to see them". Now with the heavy
> cross-over end stretch of Buffy I could understand where you
> guys were coming from. I mostly solve any continuity issues
> in one of the rewatches.
Valid, but I sort of feel that the first viewing is of extra
special importance, and that therefore it's worth it to get the
stuff in the right order first time round. E.g. if I were to see
FbF/S before TYG/WAY, then on a certain level, that would be the
order they'd stick in my mind in. This may sound a bit over the
top, and it is, I don't mean this literally, but I think there's
some truth to it nevertheless.
> Which is the best compromise between seeing the eps asap (the
> most important thing to me) and the purist side in me. But
> with the new seasons it'll be more or less pointless for the
> bulk of the episodes. So why wait is what I'm asking. What
> good reason apart from "it's the way it's meant to be" is
> there to keep eps on ice. I can also understand it as a stnad
> up against the networks. Sort of a "if you won't give it in
> the right order, I'll make it in the right order" kind of
> thing. I can apreciate that. Especially on principles. But I
> just can't imagine anyone invloved with Buffy like all of us
> on this group so very obviously are turning down that cd with
> season 5 episodes.....
Well, you're right, I don't have much respect for "the networks".
In a way I'm not even that much of a TV watcher at all, because
quite frankly, 90% of what they put out these days is crap.
Unfortunatly, those crappy networks are the only real source for
the shows *I* do want to see, unless I want to wait five years or
an eternity or whatever for them to come out on DVD. In
principle, it pains me that I'll never be seeing a Buffy episode
on DVD for the first time (again, the importance of the first
viewing thing, I wish I could wait five years or whatever and do
just that, but that's too long even for me :)), and that my first
experience of the eps will always be on TV, but that's the way it
is, so I try to make the best of it. I do away with commercial
breaks by hardly ever watching anything live, even if I'm home, I
do away with air times that don't suit me, again, by taping the
stuff and watching it when it does suit me (which may sometimes
be weeks later by the time I get around to it), and so in a lot
of ways, the 5x5 thing is pretty natural for me: I do away with
out-of-order airing of episodes by taping them and watching them
in the right order. Since I tape everything anyway, it doesn't
really feel like that much extra effort.
[getting hold of eps early]
> > By your logic, that would be a crime too, would it not? For
> > how are we going to be able to discuss the eps together at
> > the same time, if people start doing that?
>
> Nope. What I was saying was how I felt sorry about the way
> discussion on the Angel eps have been going. I was explaining
> it, there is no right or wrong there, no "crime" as you put
> it. I was pointing out how the 5x5 thing has been the main
> reason behind this lack of discussion. Of course there have
> been other factors (regulars being busy etc.), but however
> much you support being 5x5 you can't deny that the 5x5 thing
> has party caused the lack of discussion. This doesn't make
> the choice to be 5x5 any less valid. It's just another thing
> to consider, like it or not.....
Right, I see your point (and of course, I didn't mean the "crime"
thing literrally) and I'm sorry that you "my" project has had a
negative effect on "your" newsgroup ;-)), though indeed a large
part of my lack of posts has been because of genuine business and
anyway, at the best of times, I'm not *that* much of a wordy
poster as far as discussion of eps is concerned, well, sometimes,
but I'm certainly not a thread starter. But I don't think we
should really have to apologize for not posting stuff. Much as I
love this newsgroup, I wouldn't put it above the show, I think
I've said that before, i.e. I don't really feel that inclined to
change my viewing habits to minimize the negative effect they
might have on abe or whatever.
> > OK, so basically what you're saying is that "we 5x5 people"
> > are being selfish and you're asking us to give up "our"
> > airing order in favor of whatever comes on TV, so we can
> > discuss the eps together at that time.
>
> Well that's a little too black and white for me. But yes, I
> was asking "you 5x5-ers" (I hate labels, don't you?) to at
> least consider it. Is that such a bad thing? "You 5x5-ers"
> have asked me on more than one occasion when this whole thing
> was starting up to be 5x5. Now I'm doing the opposite.
> Where's the harm in that? I feel we should be able to discuss
> these things freely, we're all in the same camp basically.
> After reading your post I almost feel like I attacked you
> personally by saying something negative about the 5x5 thing.
> Now I know that that probably wasn't your intention, but at
> times it feels like it's starting to be the accepted choice
> both here and in nksf to be 5x5 and having an other opinion
> is almost a crime (there's that nasty word again;-)). That
> shouldn't be the case. At least, imho.....
Of course. Exactly. I realize my post could be taken the wrong
way, but I can indeed assure you it was not meant that way at
all.
> > In a way, I don't see why we should. Could I not just as well
> > ask *you* to give in already and stop overrating the BS order
> > the stations put out the eps in?
>
> That's valid as well. It should be freely discussed. I could
> ask you guys to reconsider and you guys could ask me to
> reconsider at any particular time. That's the whole point.
Good :) The thing is, I feel this discussion is kind of pointless
at this moment in time, when we have no idea about airdates for
the new season. Also, while we should of course feel free to
discuss it at any time, I kind of doubt whether our respective
opinions are going to change much. You don't see the point of
5x5, while *I* think it's well worth doing, especially if the
waiting involved is only a couple of weeks (yes, I consider five
to be a couple in this case ;)).
> > Sorry if that sounds unreasonable, but it's kind of the way
> > I feel :)
>
> I can understand that. Sometimes I feel my arguments against
> 5x5 are simply brushed away because it's just "better" to be
> 5x5. I still don't see that, personally. But I'll keep on
> respecting anyone's choice to be 5x5. It's just that if
> people would come up to me and ask for advice, I'd still say:
> Don't be 5x5.
Sure, and if someone came up to me and asked about that, I'd say,
well, I'd say "Wow, nobody has ever come up to me and asked about
something they saw me say on a newsgroup!" :))
> Oh and if this post came across as being a bit strong, I'm
> sorry :-) Not trying to do this in the wrong atmosphere. As
> far as I'm concerned we're all still friends here.
Yep.
> It's just that this 5x5 thing bothers me from time to time.
> That may be a selfish feeling, but it's still there :-)
I understand, I can like... *totally* relate to that ;)
> George
> Who's urging anyone not to take this too heavy-weighted.
> Usenet can have that effect sometimes. Even when using
> smileys :-)
Indeed. Gees, how long is this post? I feel like I've been typing
it all day. I hope I've covered everything. This *is* fun, in a
way, but I also kind of regret getting into it again :) Who
started it? Hmm.. Saskia, technically, by saying how happy she
was to be 5x5 ;-))
Bye,
--
J o N a T H a N
QuoteMeister[tm]
ChartMeister[tm]
5x5-Meister[tm]
george van hal
Mattia Valente wrote:
<snip>
> Hmmm...as I see it, the new season's don't really align like this pair
> did; less, if any, crossovers happening this time around. I'm always
> (still) more interested in Buffy eps than in Angel eps, I must say, but
> even if I do download a number of eps before they actally air over here,
> I'm still going to be watching, recording and reviewing the NL airings
> here, not going to flit off to US NGs to discuss, since I'll be too slow
> and too late for that anyway. I hope you all do the same, because I
> would hate to have everyone just dissapear off into the distance because
> of the advent of broadband internet. I'm taking Xander X as an example
> here...discussions here (and in ToG[tm], but mostly here) are, to me, a
> significant part of the ep viewing experience. How do you guys feel
> about that?
It almost seems like I wrote that alinea myself, so there's your awnser ;-)
> > > before the start of next season. A part of the enjoyment of
> > > Buffy is seeing the views of others after the episode has
> > > aired. And the whole 5x5 thing is kinda taking that away.
>
> So that's a yes for George, anyway....shoulda known ;-)
A definate yes. And, indeed, you should have known ;-) The difference to me
between Buffy and all the other shows I love and follow religeously (take
Roswell for example, atm) is that Buffy, for me at least, is an *active*
fandom. That means you go beyond the show. Take the show as a basis for a
lot of other hobbies. The show and the things surrounding it *become* the
hobby. The NG's now, and the message boards, buffy.com and ICQ before it
(when I still had more time) were my way to activly involve myself and dable
in all things Buffy. Which is why I love doing the fanclub. Working, a bit
more proffesionally, with a thing I'm passionate about. It's an active
fandom, and that's the fun of it....
> True enough, it's gonig to be a long long wait. At least we'll have
> things like BBC repeats to keep us gonig :-)
Indeed. Thank god ;-)
> could be 10, it could be 2, it could be anything. So I can't
> > really say yet what exactly I plan to do.
>
> True enough..I'm guessing it won't be too hugeley different though;
> hopefully the fanclub will keep lobbying for some sort of
> semi-coordination (hint, hint ;-)
Yep. We're doing just that, atm ;-)
> > By your logic, that
> > would be a crime too, would it not? For how are we going to be
> > able to discuss the eps together at the same time, if people
> > start doing that?
>
> Well, crime, no. As long as you go discuss the eps when they do
> eventually air on Dutch TV. I see a difference between these two things,
> to be perfectly honest: To get a hold of an ep early, and not discuss it
> is not the same as not watching an ep for weeks while it has been on TV
> already. Different kinds of waiting.
Indeed. There's the normal airing time and that's the order at which the
dutch tv airs the eps. That's why tv show discussion groups work so well. We
all view the eps at the same time and as such discuss them at the same time.
I saw the whole of Buffy season 3 (which I really the first season actively
discussed in this newsgroup) on download before the eps aired on dutch tv.
Still I would be sitting there each tuesday (which is when the s3 eps aired
on Net5) (re)watching the eps and hitting the newsgroups afterwards. The
fact that I had watched the eps before didn't make that any less fun. If
anything it made it more fun. I saw those eps for the second time and
allready saw the rest of the season when discussing. Which made me look at
eps in a more objective way. I knew what to expect, and wasn't hindered by
things I was dissapointed that did not happen. That made discussion more
fun, becuase I was more steady in my reviewing. I had thought about those
eps before and that funded my opinion on an episode in stronger grounds.
Which makes for better discussion. At least, imho.
> Well, we could ask him to hold off discussing the eps, anyway :-)
Which is basically what I've been doing with the whole 5x5 thing this time
round..... ;-)
> As for the whole 5x5 thing; I'm gald I did it this time around, but
> quite honestly, I doubt I'll be doing it for a whole pair of seasons;
> the way things look now (rumors 'n all that..) the crossover-age between
> the shows is gonig to be minimal at best, a good deal less than last
> season. In fact, the only rumored crossover I've heard about isn't
> really a cross, as such (if I've understood it correctly..)
Glad to hear that, hounestly....
> > Sorry if I that sounds unreasonable, but it's kind of the way I
> > feel :)
>
> :-P
>
> But you will pop in and discuss post-NL airing, won't you? Even if you
> do get all the eps off the net a long time before that...
Yeah, you will, right?
See Ya,
George
Who feels this post really wasn't about 5x5 anymore, but more about the
discussing of the episodes itself. An interesting new thread. Perhaps
deserving a name if this keeps on? Who knows ;-)
Jonathan Black
> Hmmm...as I see it, the new season's don't really align like
> this pair did; less, if any, crossovers happening this time
> around.
Hmm, okay, maybe there aren't. I can't say I actually *wan't* to
know, though, it's kind of a spoiler, isn't it? Well, okay, I
admit, I'd be interested to know about this, and I'll probably
find out anyway. It's early days yet, though, I kind of hope
there are some kick-ass crossovers, maybe towards the end of the
season, like we're seeing now. I like crossovers :)
> I'm always (still) more interested in Buffy eps than in Angel
> eps, I must say, but even if I do download a number of eps
> before they actally air over here, I'm still going to be
> watching, recording and reviewing the NL airings here, not
> going to flit off to US NGs to discuss, since I'll be too
> slow and too late for that anyway. I hope you all do the
> same, because I would hate to have everyone just dissapear
> off into the distance because of the advent of broadband
> internet. I'm taking Xander X as an example here...
Whoa, naming of names! A founding member who turned to the Dark
Side! [shock, horror] ;-))
> discussions here (and in ToG[tm], but mostly here) are, to
> me, a significant part of the ep viewing experience. How do
> you guys feel about that?
Well, sure, don't get me wrong on the stuff I said in my reply to
george, I think the discussions here are fun and I try never to
get too far behind with watching the eps so that I don't miss out
(i.e. Buffy typically watched later on the same Sunday night it
aird etc.). And I see g's point about 5x5 destoying the group to
a certain extent, but there are other factors, it's not enough
fot me to say "oh yeah, you're right, this cannot go on, I'll
ditch that 5x5 thing now". :)
> More importantly for me is going to be this: By the time the
> eps start airing, a good deal of S5 will have already hit the
> US screens. I'm hoping Miriam will be able to tell us whether
> or not there are any crossovers, and what kind of crossovers
> we're talking about (I mean, I'm not going to hold off on
> watching for a Pangs/IWRY style cross..)
Well... I dunno. Pangs/IWRY (or IWRY/Pangs, as we saw them here
(see the wrong order has stuck in my mind!!! ;)) was when I first
seriously considered the "keeping on ice" plan. It was a still a
six-week deal back then, and I came close to doing it, but no-one
here seemed to think it was a feasible plan so I decided not to
force the issue (see, I do care what the group thinks--
sometimes ;)).
> > [...] getting hold of the eps some other way long before they
> > ever come to NL TV.
>
> All of them? That would be quite a job..also, I again ask;
> still watch them when they're on TV? Hop over and join in the
> fun reveiwing stuff?
Sure, I guess, yes. [closes eyes and flashes forward to April
2001, BtVS S5 and Angel S2 are finally about to start airing on
the new "Foxeronica 8" network...] Yep, sounds cool, I'd be
definitely be there :)
> Well, crime, no. As long as you go discuss the eps when they
> do eventually air on Dutch TV.
Ok, so you're saying not discussing eps when there air in NL *is*
a crime? That's good to know. What's the penalty? :))
> I see a difference between these two things, to be perfectly
> honest: To get a hold of an ep early, and not discuss it is
> not the same as not watching an ep for weeks while it has
> been on TV already. Different kinds of waiting.
Yep, I'd actually noticed that difference myself too. I suppose
that's kind of george's point, isn't it? What he's objecting to
is the way that in a sense, the final Angel S1 eps are now still
not spoiler free, even though they have aired on TV. Not
"officially", of course, but beacuse of the 5x5 people, that's
how it feels in practice, yes? I can understand that and I'm
sorry about it, <cheesy> I wish there was another way </cheesy>,
but there also the part of me that feels that that point stems
from undue overrating of the fact that stuff has happens to have
aired. Is that a sentence?
> As for the whole 5x5 thing; I'm gald I did it this time
> around, but quite honestly, I doubt I'll be doing it for a
> whole pair of seasons; the way things look now (rumors 'n all
> that..) the crossover-age between the shows is gonig to be
> minimal at best, a good deal less than last season.
Fair enough, sounds reasonable. After all, it's no coincidence I
chose `Five by Five' as the moment to stop watching Angel early
and do the 5x5 thing. Those were definite crossovers that I
didn't want to see out of order. Hey, `Five by Five', 5x5,
geddit? Oh, wait, that isn't a coincidence either, is it? If
there really aren't any significant ones in S5/2 then who knows,
maybe I'll have changed my mind come April. It's a long way off,
anything could happen. Maybe some new show will have come along
and I'll have lost interest in the BtVS franchise altogether.
Dark Angel, anyone? Nah.... ;-))
> > Sorry if I that sounds unreasonable, but it's kind of the way
> > I feel :)
>
> :-P
>
> But you will pop in and discuss post-NL airing, won't you?
> Even if you do get all the eps off the net a long time before
> that...
Stop repeating yourself, boy! ;-)) Actually, don't, I kind of
like the way you do that, as it allows me to repeat myself too,
which is fun. Hehe. OK, what was the question? Oh yes, post-NL
airing popping in. Sounds fun to me. Let's do that.
Bye ;-)
george van hal
Jonathan Black wrote:
> george van hal wrote:
Wow, this post is huge. Lets see if I can use my scissors to slice it
back or if I'll only be making it larger ;-)
> [S5/S2 on NL TV]
> That's good. I hear there's some sort of reshuffle thing in the
> works in Dutch TV land, <snip details> , but anyway, it sounds like at
>
> the end of all that, BtVS and Angel will no longer be in the
> hands of competing companies, which would make it a lot easier to
> get the stations to show them in order, yes?
Precisely. That's our thought exactly. Now we're not all too sure if
that's a good thing, because Fox is a lot more active in its promotion
and public relations (even if their e-mail answering service isn't the
best in the world). But the good thing will indeed be that the shows
will be in the hands of the same network. I, personally, still feel more
secure if a show is in the hands of a smaller network, since you never
know what large stations like sbs have planned, but basically a good
thing. Definatly :-)
> > I just know that if the episodes air out of synch that I
> > won't be doing the 5x5 thing. Apart from the discussion thing
> > I really haven't regretted my decission not to be 5x5 one
> > minute.
>
> I know this, george, I think we've been over it a couple of times
> before :)
Well, yeah we have. Doesn't mean it isn't fun to go over it again, right
;-)?
> I understand your position and respect it, but my own
> remains somewhat different. I realize it matters little for most
> of the episodes, but nonetheless the out-of-syncness has bugged
> ever since I started watching Angel. So I don't regret doing the
> 5x5 thing at all, in fact it has exceeded my expectations; e.g.
> when I started it, I didn't even know about the crossover aspects
> of episodes 19 and 20 (though unfortunately I failed to remain
> sompletely unspoiled for them until their 5x5 airdates ;))
I can still see and respect your point, of course. But even with those
"bonus" I still can't imagine it actually being worth while. Now for a
person who allways tapes shows etc. anyways I can understand it, because
it doesn't require much adjustment. But for the rest? I'm not sure that
even if I felt that it was worth it I would want to go through all the
hussle. Plus you have the added dificulty of editing out comercials
without actually watching episodes. So even on practical grounds, the
5x5 thing doesn't work for me :-)
<snip a lot of stuff>
> I dunno, I'm just saying this sort
> of makes me reluctant to "support" "import episodes" in the same
> sort of way as that argument you make against the 5x5 thing.
> Doesn't mean I won't do it myself.
Well we sort of covered this in Mattia's post just now, but basically
it's a different kind of waiting. Seeing episodes before their
"official" are date and then waiting to discuss is very different from
keeping the episodes on ice and then watching at your own apointed time
and *then* discussing. It partly kills the same-time thing that makes
newsgroup discussion on tv shows work so well.....
> > To me that's something I almost can't imagine. I simply can't
> > picture myself saying "So, these are the first 3 eps of Buffy
> > s5? Thanks! I won't be watching them untill I get the Angel
> > eps of course because otherwise I might not understand a
> > scene of otherwise I might get less enjoyment out of the eps"
>
> :))) I just *love* being made fun of like that ;-)))))
Gladness ;-) But still it's valid. I can't imagine anyone saying
that....
<_S_N_I_P_>
> Valid, but I sort of feel that the first viewing is of extra
> special importance, and that therefore it's worth it to get the
> stuff in the right order first time round. E.g. if I were to see
> FbF/S before TYG/WAY, then on a certain level, that would be the
> order they'd stick in my mind in. This may sound a bit over the
> top, and it is, I don't mean this literally, but I think there's
> some truth to it nevertheless.
Hmm. Not really sure. Yeah, you'll allways remember the order you saw
the eps in first time 'round. But still that doesn't effect continuity
or later rewatches. A bit over the top indeed ;-)
[I allways tape everything]
See that I didn't know. If it's the way you allways do thing it doesn't
take any extra effort. That definatly makes the difference...
<snip>
> Right, I see your point (and of course, I didn't mean the "crime"
> thing literrally) and I'm sorry that you "my" project has had a
> negative effect on "your" newsgroup ;-))
*lol* Don't you just love generalisations ;-)
> , though indeed a large
> part of my lack of posts has been because of genuine business and
> anyway, at the best of times, I'm not *that* much of a wordy
> poster as far as discussion of eps is concerned, well, sometimes,
> but I'm certainly not a thread starter. But I don't think we
> should really have to apologize for not posting stuff.
Indeed, we don't have to apologize for that! I mean being here is
totally on a free basis. The enjoyment basis. If you want to, join in,
otherwise don't. Of course on a newsgroup I sometimes get to the point
where the NG becomes a sort of second home. A second life, just one on
the internet. Of course this life has a lesser priority to the "reall
life" and I'd choose going out with friends above staying at home and
going on usenet every time (and I allways do. In fact I will do just
that in a few minutes ;-)). But still there's a feeling of obligation to
the group. If we should all quit the newsgroup would wither and die. And
that's just a shame for the ones who are left behind. But that should
never ever be an argument.....
> Much as I
> love this newsgroup, I wouldn't put it above the show, I think
> I've said that before, i.e. I don't really feel that inclined to
> change my viewing habits to minimize the negative effect they
> might have on abe or whatever.
I'd take it into account. Like I said in the ohter post Buffy is, to me
at least, an active fandom with the things surrounding it being almost
(but not quite) as important as the show itself. It's a way to dabble in
all things Buffy. That's why I love the group. So loosing that would
take out a huge chunk of the enjoyment I get out of Buffy.....
> Of course. Exactly. I realize my post could be taken the wrong
> way, but I can indeed assure you it was not meant that way at
> all.
Gladness ;-) Of course I *knew* that, but I sorta needed to see it.....
> Good :) The thing is, I feel this discussion is kind of pointless
> at this moment in time, when we have no idea about airdates for
> the new season. Also, while we should of course feel free to
> discuss it at any time, I kind of doubt whether our respective
> opinions are going to change much. You don't see the point of
> 5x5, while *I* think it's well worth doing, especially if the
> waiting involved is only a couple of weeks (yes, I consider five
> to be a couple in this case ;)).
Indeed. I know for a fact I will never change your mind and that you'll
never change mine. Doesn't mean we can't learn to better *understand*
each other ;-) Plus, it's fun ;-)
> > > Sorry if that sounds unreasonable, but it's kind of the way
> > > I feel :)
> >
> > I can understand that. Sometimes I feel my arguments against
> > 5x5 are simply brushed away because it's just "better" to be
> > 5x5. I still don't see that, personally. But I'll keep on
> > respecting anyone's choice to be 5x5. It's just that if
> > people would come up to me and ask for advice, I'd still say:
> > Don't be 5x5.
>
> Sure, and if someone came up to me and asked about that, I'd say,
> well, I'd say "Wow, nobody has ever come up to me and asked about
> something they saw me say on a newsgroup!" :))
*lol*. Okay, *that* would probably be my first reaction as well ;-))
> > Oh and if this post came across as being a bit strong, I'm
> > sorry :-) Not trying to do this in the wrong atmosphere. As
> > far as I'm concerned we're all still friends here.
>
> Yep.
Gladness, again ;-))
> > It's just that this 5x5 thing bothers me from time to time.
> > That may be a selfish feeling, but it's still there :-)
>
> I understand, I can like... *totally* relate to that ;)
And again (do you feel this one coming?): Glaness ;-)
> > George
> > Who's urging anyone not to take this too heavy-weighted.
> > Usenet can have that effect sometimes. Even when using
> > smileys :-)
>
> Indeed. Gees, how long is this post? I feel like I've been typing
> it all day.
*lol* you need to learn to type faster. It *was* lengthy, but the entire
*day* ;-)
> I hope I've covered everything. This *is* fun, in a
> way, but I also kind of regret getting into it again :) Who
> started it? Hmm.. Saskia, technically, by saying how happy she
> was to be 5x5 ;-))
Yeah. Damnit Saskia! :-p
See Ya,
George
Wondering how long this one actually is....
Saskia
Oh look! I see my name!
george van hal schreef:
> Jonathan Black wrote:
> > I hope I've covered everything. This *is* fun, in a
> > way, but I also kind of regret getting into it again :) Who
> > started it? Hmm.. Saskia, technically, by saying how happy she
> > was to be 5x5 ;-))
>
> Yeah. Damnit Saskia! :-p
Oi! Careful you two... You certainly have a nerve, blaming me for
these ridiculously long posts! Hmpf.
And no, I'm not getting into it. Although I have to say that - no, no
I'm *not* getting into it. I think you guys have pretty much covered
it all even though I have to admit I didn't read it all :-O
Perhaps one of you could give us a short recap with some conclusions
and recommendations?
--
Saskia :-)
http://come.to/nkSF (oh go on, it's fun there too!)
Mattia Valente
> well, I'd say "Wow, nobody has ever come up to me and asked about
> something they saw me say on a newsgroup!" :))
Well....that's probably not entirely true, now is it? I mean, newgroups
and what we say in them are discussed, of sorts, at IRLs, aren't they?
Mattia
ReplyMeister[tm]
Muggenzifter Extraordinaire
Mattia Valente
> Mattia Valente wrote:
> > Well, crime, no. As long as you go discuss the eps when they
> > do eventually air on Dutch TV.
>
> Ok, so you're saying not discussing eps when there air in NL *is*
> a crime? That's good to know. What's the penalty? :))
Hmmm...let me get back to you on the exact punishment that entails.
IIRC, it had something to do with tying someone up and forcing them to
watch the new seasons of Buffy and Angel in reverse order, finale
first...DUBBED IN FRENCH!!!!!! (Or German, if you can't understand the
French.)
Something like that, anyway...
> and I'll have lost interest in the BtVS franchise altogether.
Argh!!! Don't DO that! ;-P
> Dark Angel, anyone? Nah.... ;-))
Hmmm...mixed reviews on that. Concept interesting, seems the execution
may be a little lacking. Wonder if we'll ever get to see it though...
Mattia
ReplyMeister[tm]
I snipped most of the stuff, 'cause we pretty much agree..boring, huh?
Jonathan Black
> Jonathan Black wrote:
> > well, I'd say "Wow, nobody has ever come up to me and asked
> > about something they saw me say on a newsgroup!" :))
>
> Well....that's probably not entirely true, now is it? I mean,
> newgroups and what we say in them are discussed, of sorts, at
> IRLs, aren't they?
Well, yeah, I guess, but I don't really count that as "someone
coming up to me".
:)
P@rick
> The fact that I had watched the eps before didn't make that any less fun.
> If anything it made it more fun. I saw those eps for the second time and
> allready saw the rest of the season when discussing. Which made me look at
> eps in a more objective way. I knew what to expect, and wasn't hindered by
> things I was dissapointed that did not happen. That made discussion more
> fun, becuase I was more steady in my reviewing. I had thought about those
> eps before and that funded my opinion on an episode in stronger grounds.
> Which makes for better discussion. At least, imho.
Well, no. Not better discussion. Because you aren't supposed to have seen
the other eps. It tones down the emotions you get from an episode. I think
you should put these emotions into your review, as if you have seen the ep
for the first time and don't know what will happen next. That is the way the
episodes are written. It's okay to look back at an episode with newly gained
insights. But you have to judge each episode on its own merits. In principle
that is, because there are such things as two-(or more)parters and
setup-episodes.
Bye, Patrick
Mattia Valente
Well, better late than never, I guess...only just watched it a first
time, must watch at least once more...
> Spoilers for "The Yoko Factor" Buffy season 4, ep 20
>
> s
> p
> o
> i
> l
> e
> r
> s
> p
> a
> c
> e
> a
> n
> d
> a
> b
> i
> t
> m
> o
> r
> e
>
> <resumes breathing> So, that was "The Yoko Factor".....
Goo boy!
<ducks>
> Let me start out by saying "wow". I'm a sucker for Story arc eps and
> this was most definatly a storyarc ep. And a *real* good one at that. At
> this point I'm assuming this won't be a real long review, because I'm
> still a bit too blown away and have to process...
Not totally completely blown away, like I was with the '4 parter', but
it's definately a really really good story arc ep. One of my definate
favorites, I would say.
> First off: The Adam storyline comes to a high. Adam has been blatantly
> underused as is aparant from this episode. He's really a fun character.
> Some more development and some more insights into his nature could've
> made him an impressive season baddy. Oh and a makeover wouldn't have
> been a bad thing either ;-)
Right..my biggest issue with him is that, knowing how things tend to go
in the Buffyverse, he probably won't survive any longer than a max of 2
eps. Which leaves him pitifully underused, IMHO, since he has great
pontential. One think that I think would have made him look quite a bit
more interesting would have been to use brushed steel (or aluminum,
whatever) instead of that highly polished crap for his metal bits. A
little more class, less cheese.
> But apart from all that he is fun now. But what makes this episode
> really cool is Spike. Retaking his role as a baddy. It's great to see
> how he drives a wedge between all the members of the Scobbygang. All the
> past problems come to a high and the charictarisation is spot on and the
> acting is great. It really feels like a conclusion to all the problems
> that have been stated in the fourth season.
In ToG[tm] several people thought it came too much out of the blue, that
it was all too sudden; for me, it worked pretty damn well (except for
the fact that they kept arguing about it for just a little too long..)
as a conclusion to the whole (admittedly not very fun) theme this season
had.
> The fragmentation of the
> scoobygang, the willow/tara thing, the uselessness of Xander and Giles
> and the whole Riley/Angel thing with Buffy. All issues are delt with and
> all isseus are delt with satisfactory. Of course we still have to see
> the scoobygang come together again next ep and unite against Adam to
> have a new strong front for next season which will be focusing on family
> and friendship....but I'm sure that will happen (it would be weird if it
> didn't).
Right..and deeply worrying. Although it could be interesting for a
while, anyway. Oh wait, they've been doing that all of season 4....never
mind that theory.
I'm sort of worried they might try to heal the wounds too fast though; 2
eps is not going to be enough. I'm guessing it's going to be a long
process that takes place mostly off-screen during the summer vacation :)
> All in all this episode was mostly about redifining this seasons
> problems and solving some (like the Riley/Angel thing) in some places.
Well, solving...clarifying, definately. And we had Riley looking like an
idiot, which is fun :oP
> It was funny and dramatic, but in exactly the right balance. A rewatch
> is in order. Especially for some of those hysterical Giles scenes...
Oh yes, Drunk Giles is fun...and of course singing Giles is too. I
really must rewatch. It'll give me something to do tomorrow, I guess ;-)
> Anyways I'll be leaving you with my rating: 9/10
Hmm...I'll stick to 8.5/10 for right now....The Faith stuff was a little
better.
Mattia
ReplyMeister[tm]
I just got my Nocturnal 3K confirmation thingy...hmmm...should I go be a
steward so I get priority seating or not...the dilemma's....
Mattia Valente
>
> george van hal schreef:
> >
>
U-huh.
> > I'm a sucker for Story arc eps
>
> Me too!
Aren't we all?
> > But apart from all that he is fun now. But what makes this episode
> > really cool is Spike. Retaking his role as a baddy.
>
> Agreed :-)
Yes. Even with a chip, he can still be evil (Still, I vote for a
de-chipping...)
> I was very happy that Angel came to Sunnydale to clear the air with
> Buffy after the fight they had in last week's (for me anyway) "Angel"
> (I am so happy to be 5by5!) and to give Riley something I've been
> wanting to give him myself a few times... :-)
:-))
I'm pretty glad I'm all 5x5, for the second (or third, whatever..) time
in 3-4 eps. Some loevely butt kicking, and an interesting (and stylishly
tasteful) way of doing the P-o-B..........a-A bit.
> There's one thing I didn't understand - maybe because I missed half of
> last week's episode - which was Willow talking about her living
> arrangements. Isn't she sharing that room with Buffy anymore?
She is, but the season (and hence, the school year) is almost over, and
as I understand it, there are different dorms every year (Freshman dorm
is for freshman, hence the name ;-) They were discussing what they would
do next year, basically. In a number of colleges you even need to clear
out your dorm rooms for Christmas Vacations and such (put everything in
storage..)
The whole point was whether or not to keep the same arrangements or not.
> > is in order. Especially for some of those hysterical Giles scenes...
>
> He cracked me up with the "bloody hell" cry from upstairs when someone
> (Xander?) mentioned the Willow/Tara/girlfriend thing :-))
I was almost in tears at that point...
Mattia
ReplyMeister[tm]
Mattia Valente
Hmmm...well, how is it going to be any different from his other
responses to it in the past? Anyway, I'm still glad (a little gladder
now, actually...) that I did it. Still would like to see some more
people hit the Angel threads, though...
> > Well that is weird. I experienced this episode as one of the
> > best of the season. The pacing was perfect, the story was
> > perfect. Even spike was perfect.
>
> Really, well I'll take your word for it then, and try a rewatch
> later this week. The pacing felt horrible to me tonight, the
> writing felt off, the jokes irritated me, etc., etc. It must be
> just me!
I guess...for me, it pretty much worked well across the board. It
'clicked'. Now give me that cynical mind of yours so I can give a good
pep-talk! And go rewatch, I'm certainly going to...
> > I really can't think of a bad thing to say about this episode
> > except: Too bad Primeval didn't air directly behind it.
>
> Oh no, I kinda like the wait for a continuation.
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Waiting for Sanctuary, for example, was a
no.
> > I know Saskia really liked this episode as well. It seems we
> > need Mattia to even things out. Where is that guy anyways ;-)
>
> Probably in France or something.
Duh.
;-P
> Well, let me just say I admire your optimism, George. I'm sure
> I'll be able to share it some rewatching and a good talk to
> myself or something.
Yeah! It's not so bad! Everything's Hunky-Dory! Wohoo! Up with the
People!!
Mattia
PepMeister[tm]
Mattia Valente
>
> george van hal skriver...
>
> [why 5x5 is bad]
>
> Hear, hear.
>
> (Correct spelling too.)
:-p
Mattia
george van hal
Mattia Valente wrote:
> george van hal wrote:
>
> Well, better late than never, I guess...only just watched it a first
> time, must watch at least once more...
Yes you must!
I rewatched yesterday and I loved it all the same!!
> > Spoilers for "The Yoko Factor" Buffy season 4, ep 20
> >
> > s
> > p
> > o
> > i
> > l
> > e
> > r
> > s
> > p
> > a
> > c
> > e
> > a
> > n
> > d
> > a
> > b
> > i
> > t
> > m
> > o
> > r
> > e
> >
> > <resumes breathing> So, that was "The Yoko Factor".....
>
> Goo boy!
Goo boy? Whats a "Goo" boy?? :-p
> <ducks>
First Goo and now ducks....what is this world coming too?? :-pp (Temttc [tm]
[1] strikes again!)
<snip>
(yes, we're putting together a zoo here ;-))
> Not totally completely blown away, like I was with the '4 parter', but
> it's definately a really really good story arc ep. One of my definate
> favorites, I would say.
Well, indeed. The 4-parter had the better momentum, the higher drama and the
more rounded and balances storyarc. This episode is still a part1 though, so
part2 could lift it beyond the Faith 4-parter. It's allready close imho....
<snip adam complaining>
> Right..my biggest issue with him is that, knowing how things tend to go
> in the Buffyverse, he probably won't survive any longer than a max of 2
> eps. Which leaves him pitifully underused, IMHO, since he has great
> pontential. One think that I think would have made him look quite a bit
> more interesting would have been to use brushed steel (or aluminum,
> whatever) instead of that highly polished crap for his metal bits. A
> little more class, less cheese.
Agree!
<snip>
> In ToG[tm] several people thought it came too much out of the blue, that
> it was all too sudden; for me, it worked pretty damn well (except for
> the fact that they kept arguing about it for just a little too long..)
> as a conclusion to the whole (admittedly not very fun) theme this season
> had.
Out of the Blue?? It's something that has been worked on the entire season.
Leterally. It started in "The Freshman" and erupted in "The Yoko Factor". I
would definatly not call that out of the blue.....
<snip>
> Of course we still have to see
> > the scoobygang come together again next ep and unite against Adam to
> > have a new strong front for next season which will be focusing on family
> > and friendship....but I'm sure that will happen (it would be weird if it
> > didn't).
>
> Right..and deeply worrying. Although it could be interesting for a
> while, anyway. Oh wait, they've been doing that all of season 4....never
> mind that theory.
:-p
> I'm sort of worried they might try to heal the wounds too fast though; 2
> eps is not going to be enough. I'm guessing it's going to be a long
> process that takes place mostly off-screen during the summer vacation :)
Well, yes indeed. There is the definate trouble of things feeling rushed. But
who knows? I'm hoping it'll all be good....
> > All in all this episode was mostly about redifining this seasons
> > problems and solving some (like the Riley/Angel thing) in some places.
>
> Well, solving...clarifying, definately. And we had Riley looking like an
> idiot, which is fun :oP
Allways! :-p
> > It was funny and dramatic, but in exactly the right balance. A rewatch
> > is in order. Especially for some of those hysterical Giles scenes...
>
> Oh yes, Drunk Giles is fun...and of course singing Giles is too. I
> really must rewatch. It'll give me something to do tomorrow, I guess ;-)
Yup! Definatly!
> > Anyways I'll be leaving you with my rating: 9/10
>
> Hmm...I'll stick to 8.5/10 for right now....The Faith stuff was a little
> better.
Yes, which is why that should get a 9.5/10 in hindsight. I'm definatly
sticking with the 9/10 for this ep ;-)
> Mattia
> ReplyMeister[tm]
> I just got my Nocturnal 3K confirmation thingy...hmmm...should I go be a
> steward so I get priority seating or not...the dilemma's....
;-) Well, I'd say no. Stewarding could be fun, but it entails work and it
would perhaps interfere with a free convention schedule. I'm just going to
hope the fanclub gets those interviews we're lobying for. That'll ensure an up
close meeting (at least for us - I don't think we can bring in more than 1 or
2 people for an interview) and will offer the oportunity to *really* get what
you want to know....
See Ya,
George
Who got his cd's with the first 5 eps of season 5 and the first 2 of s2 (of
Angel) and has now watches Bvs* and will watch the first Angel tonight. Yay!
[1] The Evil Mutated Two Tongued Creature [tm]
Mattia Valente
> Mattia Valente wrote:
> > george van hal wrote:
> >
> > Well, better late than never, I guess...only just watched it a first
> > time, must watch at least once more...
>
> Yes you must!
> I rewatched yesterday and I loved it all the same!!
:-)
Remember who you're talking to here. The only eps I haven't seen twice
or more are NKABOTFD and IMG..
It's like Go, but stretched out a little
> > <ducks>
>
> First Goo and now ducks....what is this world coming too?? :-pp (Temttc [tm]
> [1] strikes again!)
Freak..
<duikt weg>
> <snip>
>
> (yes, we're putting together a zoo here ;-))
Uh, really? What's a snip, if I may ask?
> > Not totally completely blown away, like I was with the '4 parter', but
> > it's definately a really really good story arc ep. One of my definate
> > favorites, I would say.
>
> Well, indeed. The 4-parter had the better momentum, the higher drama and the
> more rounded and balances storyarc. This episode is still a part1 though, so
> part2 could lift it beyond the Faith 4-parter. It's allready close imho....
I doubt it, since the part two in this case is the season finale.
Despite the allround goodness, it has a few too many flaws (having to do
a lot of development in next to no time at all..) We could've dropped an
ep like Superstar and done more Adam-y stuff instead. Much better.
<SNIP agreeing>
> > In ToG[tm] several people thought it came too much out of the blue, that
> > it was all too sudden; for me, it worked pretty damn well (except for
> > the fact that they kept arguing about it for just a little too long..)
> > as a conclusion to the whole (admittedly not very fun) theme this season
> > had.
>
> Out of the Blue?? It's something that has been worked on the entire season.
I'm not saying in any way I agree, mind you! I think it works well,
things leading up to it are definately present. Spike just added the
little push and set them all arguing. He did that before, for fun, in
Doomed, although it didn't lead to any big confrontations. Spike's a
natural.
> Leterally. It started in "The Freshman" and erupted in "The Yoko Factor". I
> would definatly not call that out of the blue.....
Again, neither would I. I can imagine that people who don't follow as
fanatically might think so, though.
> > > Of course we still have to see
> > > the scoobygang come together again next ep and unite against Adam to
> > > have a new strong front for next season which will be focusing on family
> > > and friendship....but I'm sure that will happen (it would be weird if it
> > > didn't).
> >
> > Right..and deeply worrying. Although it could be interesting for a
> > while, anyway. Oh wait, they've been doing that all of season 4....never
> > mind that theory.
>
> :-p
:-Pp
See? I can do it too! Just my tounges are a little mismatched...
> > I'm sort of worried they might try to heal the wounds too fast though; 2
> > eps is not going to be enough. I'm guessing it's going to be a long
> > process that takes place mostly off-screen during the summer vacation :)
>
> Well, yes indeed. There is the definate trouble of things feeling rushed. But
> who knows? I'm hoping it'll all be good....
It won't be perfect; it's too late for that, IMHO. I think it WILL be
good though, no matter what happens.
> > > All in all this episode was mostly about redifining this seasons
> > > problems and solving some (like the Riley/Angel thing) in some places.
> >
> > Well, solving...clarifying, definately. And we had Riley looking like an
> > idiot, which is fun :oP
>
> Allways! :-p
Ultra?
<duikt weg...no more ducks here. No sir!>
> > > It was funny and dramatic, but in exactly the right balance. A rewatch
> > > is in order. Especially for some of those hysterical Giles scenes...
> >
> > Oh yes, Drunk Giles is fun...and of course singing Giles is too. I
> > really must rewatch. It'll give me something to do tomorrow, I guess ;-)
>
> Yup! Definatly!
:-)
> > > Anyways I'll be leaving you with my rating: 9/10
> >
> > Hmm...I'll stick to 8.5/10 for right now....The Faith stuff was a little
> > better.
>
> Yes, which is why that should get a 9.5/10 in hindsight. I'm definatly
> sticking with the 9/10 for this ep ;-)
Ah. OK then. For reference, Passion is an 11/10, right?
> > Mattia
> > ReplyMeister[tm]
> > I just got my Nocturnal 3K confirmation thingy...hmmm...should I go be a
> > steward so I get priority seating or not...the dilemma's....
>
> ;-) Well, I'd say no. Stewarding could be fun, but it entails work and it
> would perhaps interfere with a free convention schedule. I'm just going to
> hope the fanclub gets those interviews we're lobying for. That'll ensure an up
> close meeting (at least for us - I don't think we can bring in more than 1 or
> 2 people for an interview) and will offer the oportunity to *really* get what
> you want to know....
:-O
I just got this tingly feeling...do you need someone else to answer
fanclub mail or something?
> Who got his cd's with the first 5 eps of season 5 and the first 2 of s2 (of
> Angel) and has now watches Bvs* and will watch the first Angel tonight. Yay!
:-))
Cool! The Buffy ep is pretty good, read the non-spoiler review about
Angel..looks interesting. I'm curious as to what you think of the rest
of the Buffy eps you have (and the other Angel ep, of course..) I'm
going to be good and stop trying to get my grubby little fingers on the
eps for at least another 2 weeks..say, until Restless airs. Say, that
would bring us roughly to the Fanclub day! (hint hint..)
Mattia
ReplyMeister[tm]
george van hal
Mattia Valente <mae.v...@std.vu.nl> wrote:
> george van hal wrote:
> > Mattia Valente wrote:
> > > george van hal wrote:
Torentje! ;-)
> > > Well, better late than never, I guess...only just watched it a
first
> > > time, must watch at least once more...
> >
> > Yes you must!
> > I rewatched yesterday and I loved it all the same!!
>
> :-)
>
> Remember who you're talking to here. The only eps I haven't seen twice
> or more are NKABOTFD and IMG..
Which really is a shame. I'm guessing the first of those two will be
corected when you get your hands on the DVDs...the second'll have to
wait a while, I guess. How many of those rewatches were in french
<shivers>, btw??
Ah, of course...
Go boy! I'm not your dog! (read the *not*. Don't want to get that
Mattia's Dog[tm] title....:-p)
> > > <ducks>
> >
> > First Goo and now ducks....what is this world coming too?? :-pp
(Temttc [tm]
> > [1] strikes again!)
>
> Freak..
Tss. Look who's talking. You're the über freak :-p
> <duikt weg>
"Duikt weg"? What kind of weird language is that :-p (getting a tongue
spasm again here, btw. At least my other tongue's still working ;-))
> > <snip>
> >
> > (yes, we're putting together a zoo here ;-))
>
> Uh, really? What's a snip, if I may ask?
<insane> Wouldn't you wanna know, huh? HUH? </insane>
> > Well, indeed. The 4-parter had the better momentum, the higher
drama and the
> > more rounded and balances storyarc. This episode is still a part1
though, so
> > part2 could lift it beyond the Faith 4-parter. It's allready close
imho....
>
> I doubt it, since the part two in this case is the season finale.
> Despite the allround goodness, it has a few too many flaws (having to
> do a lot of development in next to no time at all..) We could've
> dropped an ep like Superstar and done more Adam-y stuff instead. Much
> better.
<rant>
I agree. Superstar, as it is, isn't one of my favorites. That
whole "One joke gets old fast" deal was definatly not working in its
advantage. So I wouldn't have minded it if it had gotten thrown out for
some adam-y goodness. I mean the main problem with season 4, in
hindsight, is not the fact that the main storyline's cheesy or the fact
that the scoobygang is falling apart. That's all a matter of personal
taste, definatly something that makes *me* like the season less, but
not something one could judge objectively. The main problem is that
there was too little story arc development. Only the issue of the
falling apart of the scoobygang and the Tara/Willow relationship have
been handled correctly. Now those are very important, granted. The fact
that they're there is one of the main reasons we love this show. But
the exciting story, the cascade of nerve wrecking or dramatic events
are what separates this show from something like "Dawson's Creek". It's
what made the past seasons so much better. The dramatic story arc
developments, even though they're interesting, just come as too little
too late this season. Adam's been hughly underused, professor Walsh's
potential was nipped in the bud with her early death and the whole
Riley thing could've been handled better. So that's my problem with
this season, more or less objectivly. This doesn't mean, of course,
that I won't be enjoying Primeval. It'll probably be a kick-ass episode
whatever happens and I'm looking forward too it in a huge way. But
it's , as I stated earlier, too little too late...
</rant>
<snip agreeage>
> > :-p
>
> :-Pp
>
> See? I can do it too! Just my tounges are a little mismatched...
Yes, indeed. I'm glad to see that. Your mutation is even worse than
mine. Yay! :-pp
<snip some more agreeing>
> > Allways! :-p
>
> Ultra?
<sigh>
> <duikt weg...no more ducks here. No sir!>
You killed all the ducks! You bastard! :-p (tongue is *really* starting
to hurt now)
<snip>
> > > > Anyways I'll be leaving you with my rating: 9/10
> > >
> > > Hmm...I'll stick to 8.5/10 for right now....The Faith stuff was a
little
> > > better.
> >
> > Yes, which is why that should get a 9.5/10 in hindsight. I'm
definatly
> > sticking with the 9/10 for this ep ;-)
>
> Ah. OK then. For reference, Passion is an 11/10, right?
Absolutely. Passion is off the scale. I mean if we started grading on
the scale with Passion a 10 all my other ratings should go way down in
comparison..
[fanclub *maybe* doing interviews at Nocturnal]
> :-O
>
> I just got this tingly feeling...do you need someone else to answer
> fanclub mail or something?
You want to get in on this interviewing business, huh ? ;-) Well for
one it's not certain and for two...it's not certain ;-) As for
volunteers/pr people etc. we allways need all the help we can get. Just
send Ilse a mail....
> > Who got his cd's with the first 5 eps of season 5 and the first 2
of s2 (of
> > Angel) and has now watches Bvs* and will watch the first Angel
tonight. Yay!
>
> :-))
>
> Cool! The Buffy ep is pretty good, read the non-spoiler review about
> Angel..looks interesting.
I found the Buffy ep to be enjoyable. Better than The Freshman, but
that's really about it. The whole ******* thing didn't really do it for
me. Despite all the efforts in the contrary it still felt *wrong*
somehow. Looking forward to the next ep though. Angel was way better.
You should really see that ep soonish...
I'm curious as to what you think of the rest
> of the Buffy eps you have (and the other Angel ep, of course..) I'm
> going to be good and stop trying to get my grubby little fingers on
the
> eps for at least another 2 weeks..say, until Restless airs. Say, that
> would bring us roughly to the Fanclub day! (hint hint..)
Well, we're absolutly trying to get to show those eps. We're not sure
about the quality, because the direct from tv tapes don't seem to be
coming through fast enough. So we'll probably have to do a mpg to video
deal where we basicaly show the (high res) downloaded episodes which
are in a bit lower quality than the actual ones. Still very much
watcheable though, nothing like those small rm-player screens we used
to have. Oh and if you want the cd's, just mail me and we'll work
something out ;-)
See Ya,
George
Doing ep2 of both Buffy and Angel (probably) today...
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Mattia Valente
> Mattia Valente <mae.v...@std.vu.nl> wrote:
> > george van hal wrote:
> > > Mattia Valente wrote:
> > > > george van hal wrote:
>
> Torentje! ;-)
Wohoo!! (yes, I realize it's sad..)
> > > > Well, better late than never, I guess...only just watched it a first
> > > > time, must watch at least once more...
> > >
> > > Yes you must!
> > > I rewatched yesterday and I loved it all the same!!
> >
> > :-)
> >
> > Remember who you're talking to here. The only eps I haven't seen twice
> > or more are NKABOTFD and IMG..
>
> Which really is a shame. I'm guessing the first of those two will be
> corected when you get your hands on the DVDs...the second'll have to
Well, I've only seen most of the S1 eps once or twice, twice max in
English, actually. Season 1 is my least watched season ever, actaully.
> wait a while, I guess. How many of those rewatches were in french
> <shivers>, btw??
;-)
A good deal of them. Actually, technically a good deal of the first
watches were in French.
Well, can I at least refer to myself as George's Owner[tm]? Or will that
spark off you using that other title again? That would be pretty weird,
both of them in use concurrently. Paradoxes abound..
> > > > <ducks>
> > >
> > > First Goo and now ducks....what is this world coming too?? :-pp
> > > (Temttc [tm]
> > > [1] strikes again!)
> >
> > Freak..
>
> Tss. Look who's talking. You're the über freak :-p
So? I didn't mean it as an insult. Man, you *are* strange, aren't you..I
hope we get to the point soon, this is looking a little rambly right
now.
> > <duikt weg>
>
> "Duikt weg"? What kind of weird language is that :-p (getting a tongue
> spasm again here, btw. At least my other tongue's still working ;-))
:-P
> > > <snip>
> > >
> > > (yes, we're putting together a zoo here ;-))
> >
> > Uh, really? What's a snip, if I may ask?
>
> <insane> Wouldn't you wanna know, huh? HUH? </insane>
Err...right. Bygones.
> <rant>
Uh-oh...this means your not going to make nice paragraphs right? Damn..
> I agree. Superstar, as it is, isn't one of my favorites. That
> whole "One joke gets old fast" deal was definatly not working in its
> advantage. So I wouldn't have minded it if it had gotten thrown out for
> some adam-y goodness. I mean the main problem with season 4, in
> hindsight, is not the fact that the main storyline's cheesy or the fact
> that the scoobygang is falling apart. That's all a matter of personal
> taste, definatly something that makes *me* like the season less, but
> not something one could judge objectively.
What's objective where TV shows are concerned, though? It's different
from the other seasons, and even Joss himself has said that things
didn't uite turn out as planned (especially the whole Initiative
thing..IIRC Walsh wasn't supposed to be killed off so fast, nor was the
whole Oz thing supposed to happen in one ep. Lots of rushing this time
around.)
> The main problem is that
> there was too little story arc development. Only the issue of the
> falling apart of the scoobygang and the Tara/Willow relationship have
> been handled correctly. Now those are very important, granted. The fact
True, but they're not arc material. They're personal change issues,
something that should be part of the drive behind the story, and be
influenced by occurences. ATM those things are sort of standing there on
their own (well, at least until before this ep..)
> that they're there is one of the main reasons we love this show. But
> the exciting story, the cascade of nerve wrecking or dramatic events
> are what separates this show from something like "Dawson's Creek". It's
> what made the past seasons so much better. The dramatic story arc
> developments, even though they're interesting, just come as too little
> too late this season.
Exactly; plus, the whole too much funny, not enough Drama thing. More
big serious scary background occurences (College doesn't count ;-) are
needed for a nice interesting Story Arc.
> Adam's been hughly underused, professor Walsh's
> potential was nipped in the bud with her early death and the whole
> Riley thing could've been handled better.
All of which turned out worse than planned, according to Joss. You're
not the only one who's a little dissapointed.
> So that's my problem with
> this season, more or less objectivly. This doesn't mean, of course,
> that I won't be enjoying Primeval. It'll probably be a kick-ass episode
> whatever happens and I'm looking forward too it in a huge way. But
> it's , as I stated earlier, too little too late...
It's definately too late to turn this season great. It hasn't been truly
bad by any standards, IMO, with a good number of good-to-great episodes
(WAH, Hush, NMR, Something Blue, TYG/WAY, etc..) and a few duds. It's
the lack of arc that's bothering me.
> </rant>
:-)
> > > :-p
> >
> > :-Pp
> >
> > See? I can do it too! Just my tounges are a little mismatched...
>
> Yes, indeed. I'm glad to see that. Your mutation is even worse than
> mine. Yay! :-pp
But one of my tounges is bigger than yours! Ha!
> <snip some more agreeing>
>
> > > Allways! :-p
> >
> > Ultra?
>
> <sigh>
Well, techincally, there's only one l in Always..
> > <duikt weg...no more ducks here. No sir!>
>
> You killed all the ducks! You bastard! :-p (tongue is *really* starting
> to hurt now)
You're brain stopped working again, didn't it?
> > > > > Anyways I'll be leaving you with my rating: 9/10
> > > >
> > > > Hmm...I'll stick to 8.5/10 for right now....The Faith stuff was a little
> > > > better.
> > >
> > > Yes, which is why that should get a 9.5/10 in hindsight. I'm definatly
> > > sticking with the 9/10 for this ep ;-)
> >
> > Ah. OK then. For reference, Passion is an 11/10, right?
>
> Absolutely. Passion is off the scale. I mean if we started grading on
> the scale with Passion a 10 all my other ratings should go way down in
> comparison..
:-))
> [fanclub *maybe* doing interviews at Nocturnal]
>
> > :-O
> >
> > I just got this tingly feeling...do you need someone else to answer
> > fanclub mail or something?
>
> You want to get in on this interviewing business, huh ? ;-) Well for
> one it's not certain and for two...it's not certain ;-) As for
Well, duh. I figured that much out..nothing is certain, but you can
always dream, can't you?
> volunteers/pr people etc. we allways need all the help we can get. Just
> send Ilse a mail....
Address please? Mail me..
> > > Who got his cd's with the first 5 eps of season 5 and the first 2 of s2 (of
> > > Angel) and has now watches Bvs* and will watch the first Angel tonight. Yay!
> >
> > :-))
> >
> > Cool! The Buffy ep is pretty good, read the non-spoiler review about
> > Angel..looks interesting.
>
> I found the Buffy ep to be enjoyable. Better than The Freshman, but
> that's really about it. The whole ******* thing didn't really do it for
> me. Despite all the efforts in the contrary it still felt *wrong*
> somehow. Looking forward to the next ep though. Angel was way better.
> You should really see that ep soonish...
On second watching S5E1 was better, but it stayed incredibly odd. It's
the things that it implies, the possibilities that it throws up that are
by far more inportant than ******* in and of itself. It didn't feel to
wrong, just incredibly strange and alien(which, I suppose, is 'wrong' in
a sense..) but that worked to the eps advantage, for me.
Angel is good, second time they deliver a quality first ep I guess (OK,
so one of them was a Pilot...details..anyone know if you can find the
Angel unaired Pilot anywhere? It's gotta exist..)
I will go view the eps now, but I'll try to refrain from rewatching when
the air dates for here gt closer, methinks..
> > I'm curious as to what you think of the rest
> > of the Buffy eps you have (and the other Angel ep, of course..) I'm
> > going to be good and stop trying to get my grubby little fingers on the
> > eps for at least another 2 weeks..say, until Restless airs. Say, that
> > would bring us roughly to the Fanclub day! (hint hint..)
>
> Well, we're absolutly trying to get to show those eps. We're not sure
> about the quality, because the direct from tv tapes don't seem to be
> coming through fast enough. So we'll probably have to do a mpg to video
> deal where we basicaly show the (high res) downloaded episodes which
> are in a bit lower quality than the actual ones. Still very much
> watcheable though, nothing like those small rm-player screens we used
> to have. Oh and if you want the cd's, just mail me and we'll work
> something out ;-)
I probably will... We shall see. Do the non spoilery review thing for
them other eps as well. Full spoiler review isn't eally necessary; if we
want those we have Mir's stuff to read :)
> Doing ep2 of both Buffy and Angel (probably) today...
You epslut, you!
Oh, and BTW, just saw an interesting promo on Net5, you'll probably like
it:
Seems that there won't be any direct repeating of S4 (no surprise or big
deal there..) Starting on the 26th of November (that's a Sunday..) Net5
is gonig to be airing yet another WB show: Popular! So, George, your
wish has become reality. My only proplem with this is it raises the
question of when Buffy S5 is going to start airing, and where (please
god, not SBS6! SBS6 reception sucks..) If they wanted to air it on
Sunday's again, that would mean starting around the beginning of May or
so, which is bad. It was April second last time around, right? Something
like that anyway..Of course, I'm just assuming they're going to air it
in the Buffy timeslot...maybe we should bug the Net5 mailperson again
(or the fanclub can do it through their liason officer..is that position
filled already?)
Mattia
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