Doppelgängland (spoilers)
Peter Kleiweg
Spoilers for Doppelgängland
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I really liked this episode, so, logically George hated it.
This episode was too short, I'd like to have seen more of vamp
Willow, more scenes that is. Shame about the long intro, we all
know what Willow is usually like, no need to spell it out for
us.
I didn't like vamp Willow in The Wish. She wasn't much different
I guess, so it must have been that The Wish was just a bad
story, as I claimed before.
Something that was hinted at in earlier episodes was finally
spelled out more clearly this time. Angel admitted as much: a
vampire is not someone totally different from the human whose
body he took over, part of the person is still in the vampire.
Makes me wonder what Joyce would be like as a vampire.
--
Peter Kleiweg | P e t r o n o m i c o n |
e-mail: xl -> nl | http://www.let.rug.nl/~kleiweg |
Guardian of Spike's Innocence, and his Dislike of Puppies
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Well, ain't you just got the prettiest little neck I ever did see.
-- Lyle, Bad Eggs
Rob
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I have just finished watching doppelgängland (for the first time).
Just a few first impressions.
I liked it a lot. It had humor, action and great acting by (especially)
Alyson Hannigan. It also reminded me why I liked "the wish". Evil
Willow rules ! It's amazing how some attitude and cool clothes can make
such a difference. Don't get me wrong, I always liked Willow a lot but
evil Willow makes me want to become a vampire myself just to get on her good
side.
But would I make a chance ? It seems to me that the writers made a clear
effort to hint to us that (evil, but also nice) Willow might be bi-sexual
(or even gay). What's up with that ? Will we see more evidence of this
or was it just some temporary thing to make Willow look more interesting ?
Or maybe in some future ep she and Buffy........................[takes some
time to get a grip]............forget it, don't mind me, I'm sick.
Also we learned that Faith doesn't seem to have a huge problem having Buffy
killed. I'm looking forward to see how this evolves.
Cordelia and Wesley. It's pretty obvious that those two crazy kids will
swap spit in the near future. We will see.
Finally, it seems to me that precious time was lost with that "training to
ace Faith out at the watchers council tests" deal. This had nothing to do
with the main storyline. Of course we needed some time to let us watch
Faith betray Willows efforts to get in the mayors computer to that same
person. So the mayor could sent some vamps after willow so evil W. would
end up in the Bronze. But I think some minutes could be better spend
watching Evil Willow play. Maybe I feel differently after I've watched
this ep once or twice more.
That's it. Any comments ?
Rob
Hanneke
Peter said:
Spoilers for Doppelgängland
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<<I really liked this episode, so, logically George hated it.>>
Wanna bet? <g> The whole ep was one big Willow fest. I'm pretty sure this ep
is what caused George's sandwich fantasies in the first place. :)))
<<This episode was too short, I'd like to have seen more of vamp
Willow, more scenes that is. >>
Yep. I would have loved to see her chat with Angel over puppy love and
stuff. :)
<<Shame about the long intro, we all
know what Willow is usually like, no need to spell it out for
us.
I didn't like vamp Willow in The Wish. She wasn't much different
I guess, so it must have been that The Wish was just a bad
story, as I claimed before.>>
Although I loved The Wish, I must say Willow made a better evil Willow this
time.
<<Something that was hinted at in earlier episodes was finally
spelled out more clearly this time. Angel admitted as much: a
vampire is not someone totally different from the human whose
body he took over, part of the person is still in the vampire.>>
So there's still hope for Angel. <g> (Seriously, I'm beginning to wish he
accidentally lost his soul once more. He's really suffering from a Chakotay
syndrome. Started out *very* interesting, and ending up as cute wall paper.
:((()
<<Makes me wonder what Joyce would be like as a vampire.>>
Or Giles... Or Wesley!
Hanneke
(who loved this ep:))
Hanneke
Rob said:
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>I have just finished watching doppelgängland (for the first time).
>Just a few first impressions.
>
>I liked it a lot. It had humor, action and great acting by (especially)
>Alyson Hannigan. It also reminded me why I liked "the wish". Evil
>Willow rules ! It's amazing how some attitude and cool clothes can make
>such a difference. Don't get me wrong, I always liked Willow a lot but
>evil Willow makes me want to become a vampire myself just to get on her
good
>side.
<g> That could be interpreted as a double entendre.
>
>But would I make a chance ? It seems to me that the writers made a clear
>effort to hint to us that (evil, but also nice) Willow might be bi-sexual
>(or even gay).
I'd say bi. She looked rather pleased to see Xander.
What's up with that ? Will we see more evidence of this
>or was it just some temporary thing to make Willow look more interesting ?
I think it was rather daring for an American *kids'* show. And I liked the
fact that Angel sort of protested when Buffy stated that it was probably
just a vampire thing, more or less, to stop intolerant minds from yelling
'See? Only evil people are gay.'
>Or maybe in some future ep she and Buffy........................[takes some
>time to get a grip]............forget it, don't mind me, I'm sick.
<g> Considering the amount of Buffy/Willow stories on the net, I'd say
you're not alone. Pity those stories (and with one or two terrific
exceptions <waves at Miriam>, almost *all* Buffy fanfic) are so godawfully
bad.
>
>Also we learned that Faith doesn't seem to have a huge problem having Buffy
>killed. I'm looking forward to see how this evolves.
Me too.
>Cordelia and Wesley. It's pretty obvious that those two crazy kids will
>swap spit in the near future. We will see.
Mmm. I really like the whole Cordelia/Wesley thing.
Hanneke
Eric L Bailey
>But would I make a chance ? It seems to me that the writers made a clear
>effort to hint to us that (evil, but also nice) Willow might be bi-sexual
>(or even gay). What's up with that ? Will we see more evidence of this
>or was it just some temporary thing to make Willow look more interesting ?
>Or maybe in some future ep she and Buffy........................[takes some
>time to get a grip]............forget it, don't mind me, I'm sick.
Of course Willow has a crush on Buffy. Didn't you know? Why do you
think she hated Faith so much? :)
>
>Also we learned that Faith doesn't seem to have a huge problem having Buffy
>killed. I'm looking forward to see how this evolves.
She didn't have a problem having Willow killed, actually. They were
fighting over Buffy :)
>
>Finally, it seems to me that precious time was lost with that "training to
>ace Faith out at the watchers council tests" deal. This had nothing to do
>with the main storyline.
But it had everything to do with the SEASON'S main storyline.
E
Willem Tel
>
>Spoilers for Doppelgängland
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>I really liked this episode, so, logically George hated it.
>
>This episode was too short, I'd like to have seen more of vamp
>Willow, more scenes that is. Shame about the long intro, we all
>know what Willow is usually like, no need to spell it out for
>us.
Funny, I was thinking the same the first time I watched this episode.
However, after watching again I think it was a) not that long, and b)
necessary to set up the story in a believable way (Willow helping
stranger Anya with her black magic without questioning her) and as a
prelude to some of the events with Bad-Willow
<snip>
>Something that was hinted at in earlier episodes was finally
>spelled out more clearly this time. Angel admitted as much: a
>vampire is not someone totally different from the human whose
>body he took over, part of the person is still in the vampire.
>Makes me wonder what Joyce would be like as a vampire.
Yes, basically you get to be the same person, but without a soul, so
no conscience, no remorse, no inhibitions. That brings out the worst
of anyone from under a thin layer of physiological and cultural
civilization.
--
Willem
Willem Tel
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<snip>
>But would I make a chance ? It seems to me that the writers made a clear
>effort to hint to us that (evil, but also nice) Willow might be bi-sexual
>(or even gay). What's up with that ? Will we see more evidence of this
>or was it just some temporary thing to make Willow look more interesting ?
>Or maybe in some future ep she and Buffy........................[takes some
>time to get a grip]............forget it, don't mind me, I'm sick.
She is from an alternate reality, you know. Although some things are
the same, many things are very different, so I don't think there's any
'hinting' going on.
>Also we learned that Faith doesn't seem to have a huge problem having Buffy
>killed.
It was Willow that the mayor ordered to get killed! I think there's
still something between Faith and Buffy (nothing gay :-) so I'm not
sure how Faith would react to having Buffy killed.
<snip>
--
Willem
William George Ferguson
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>But would I make a chance ? It seems to me that the writers made a clear
>effort to hint to us that (evil, but also nice) Willow might be bi-sexual
>(or even gay).
Lessee. "That's me as a vampire? I'm so evil. And skanky. And I
think I'm kind of gay."
It's a stretch, but I can see how that could be interpreted as
implying that the character might be gay :)
Robert Barr
William George Ferguson wrote in message
<3qDiN1uoCsb+1p...@4ax.com>...
No, not a stretch. Remember Buffy's comment that follows, saying that the
vamp has very little in common with the human it used to be, and then Angel
started to interrupt -- and then exercised a little tact. The hint, of
course, was that there IS something in common (the trait in question, in
this case) between human and vamp Willow.
In any case, it's a classic episode, lacking only in leather-time.
Don Sample
<5C3AB5C9E487D1A1.7D50DE70...@lp.airnews.net>,
Eric L Bailey <bai...@airmail.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:30:58 +0200, "Rob" <zwa...@gironet.nl> wrote:
>
> >
> >Finally, it seems to me that precious time was lost with that "training to
> >ace Faith out at the watchers council tests" deal. This had nothing to do
> >with the main storyline.
>
> But it had everything to do with the SEASON'S main storyline.
>
> E
Post Dopplegangland Episode Spoiler warning.....
What Willow was doing in that scene has great significance to a future
episode.
--
Don Sample, dsa...@synapse.net
Visit the Buffy Body Count at http://www.synapse.net/~dsample/BBC
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Peter Kleiweg
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> It seems to me that the writers made a clear effort to hint to
> us that (evil, but also nice) Willow might be bi-sexual (or
> even gay). What's up with that? Will we see more evidence of
> this or was it just some temporary thing to make Willow look
> more interesting ?
Nice Willow gay? Nothing of a hint comes to mind. And regarding
vamp Willow... we've seen lots of male vampires enjoying a good
bite of a male neck. Those scenes never seem to inspire
discussions about them being gay. I guess male homosexuality
isn't as fashionable as female homosexuality. At least not in US
television.
--
Peter Kleiweg | P e t r o n o m i c o n |
e-mail: xl -> nl | http://www.let.rug.nl/~kleiweg |
Guardian of Spike's Innocence, and his Dislike of Puppies
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I think you'd sweat cute blood.
-- Oz, Becoming 1
Eric L Bailey
wrote:
Alt.Willow did a bit more than bite...
I think it was the licking and feeling up girls that started
speculation about alt.Willow...
E
Peter Kleiweg
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> I think it was the licking and feeling up girls that started
> speculation about alt.Willow...
Willow has her own alt newsgroup? It's not on my server.
--
Peter Kleiweg | P e t r o n o m i c o n |
e-mail: xl -> nl | http://www.let.rug.nl/~kleiweg |
Guardian of Spike's Innocence, and his Dislike of Puppies
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Sign up and get your own pack of sugar-hyped little runts for
the night.
-- Xander, Halloween
Rob
Peter Kleiweg heeft geschreven in bericht ...
>Rob skriver...
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>
>> us that (evil, but also nice) Willow might be bi-sexual (or
>> even gay). What's up with that? Will we see more evidence of
>> this or was it just some temporary thing to make Willow look
>> more interesting ?
>
>Nice Willow gay? Nothing of a hint comes to mind. And regarding
>vamp Willow... we've seen lots of male vampires enjoying a good
>bite of a male neck. Those scenes never seem to inspire
>discussions about them being gay. I guess male homosexuality
>isn't as fashionable as female homosexuality. At least not in US
>television.
>
Just biting is something else than licking and feeling.
Remember the scene at the cage where Buffy said something like a vampire's
personality having nothing to do with the human he/she was before ?
Angel wanted to disagree but opted not to do so.
This scene hinted clearly that nice Willow could be more alike to Bad Willow
than someone would think.
Including the bi thing.
(And call me strange, but given the choice I would rather see two soft,
beautiful girls kissing than two hairy constuctionworkers with beerbellies
and "mom" tattoes).
Rob
Andrea
Rob said:
>
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>Just biting is something else than licking and feeling.
>
>Remember the scene at the cage where Buffy said something like a vampire's
>personality having nothing to do with the human he/she was before ?
>Angel wanted to disagree but opted not to do so.
>This scene hinted clearly that nice Willow could be more alike to Bad
Willow
>than someone would think.
>Including the bi thing.
>(And call me strange, but given the choice I would rather see two soft,
>beautiful girls kissing than two hairy constuctionworkers with beerbellies
>and "mom" tattoes).
<g> And may I add that I'd rather see two cute guys do the tonsil hockey
thing
than two hairy female construction workers with beer bellies and such. :))
Andrea
(formerly known as Hanneke :)))
Miriam Rocke
:
I agree. Then again, do hairy female construction workers usually
have beer bellies and stuff...? And would they have "mom" tattoes or
"dad" tattoes? And is this totally off topic? I know the answer to
one of those questions. :)
obBtVS comment: There seems to be more f/f hintings [Willow-bi
implications and the Buffy/Faith dance in Bad Girls being two fairly
strong examples of that] than m/m hintings [unless you really stretch
Xander/Giles or Xander/Oz scenes].
: Andrea
: (formerly known as Hanneke :)))
Hey. No fair changing your name...! <g>
Mir
--
Miriam Rocke "Just so we're clear, you guys
mrr...@ucdavis.edu know you're nuts, right?"
http://handel.cipic.ucdavis.edu/~mrrocke/ --BtVS, "Gingerbread"
Peter Kleiweg
> Andrea
> (formerly known as Hanneke :)))
What happened?
--
Peter Kleiweg | P e t r o n o m i c o n |
e-mail: xl -> nl | http://www.let.rug.nl/~kleiweg |
Guardian of Spike's Innocence, and his Dislike of Puppies
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Buffy: Her lover? I thought that was her chiropractor.
Willow: Because of that thing he did with her feet? No, that was
personal.
-- Reptile Boy
Willem Tel
>Andrea
>(formerly known as Hanneke :)))
Well, at least it's just a name change and not a sex change :-)
--
Willem
Willem Tel
>
>Peter Kleiweg heeft geschreven in bericht ...
>>Rob skriver...
>>
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>>
>>> It seems to me that the writers made a clear effort to hint to
>>> us that (evil, but also nice) Willow might be bi-sexual (or
>>> even gay). What's up with that? Will we see more evidence of
>>> this or was it just some temporary thing to make Willow look
>>> more interesting ?
>>
>>Nice Willow gay? Nothing of a hint comes to mind. And regarding
>>vamp Willow... we've seen lots of male vampires enjoying a good
>>bite of a male neck. Those scenes never seem to inspire
>>discussions about them being gay. I guess male homosexuality
>>isn't as fashionable as female homosexuality. At least not in US
>>television.
>>
>>--
>Just biting is something else than licking and feeling.
>
>Remember the scene at the cage where Buffy said something like a vampire's
>personality having nothing to do with the human he/she was before ?
>Angel wanted to disagree but opted not to do so.
>This scene hinted clearly that nice Willow could be more alike to Bad Willow
>than someone would think.
>Including the bi thing.
I don't agree. It just hints that Bad-Willow was also bi-sexual when
she was still Good-Alternate-Willow in her own alternate universe. It
does say nothing about our own Willow!
Although, come to think off it, the alternate universe is supposed to
be our universe, just without Buffy coming to Sunnydale. So I guess
the right sequence is: Our Willow -> No Buffy to Sunnydale -> Willow
becoming Good-Alternate-Willow -> meeting vampire -> Bi-sexual
Bad-Willow.
So, unless Buffy has something to do with making our Willow NOT
bi-sexual, I guess you are right and I do agree after all!!
Confusing, isn't it :-)
>(And call me strange, but given the choice I would rather see two soft,
>beautiful girls kissing than two hairy constuctionworkers with beerbellies
>and "mom" tattoes).
Looks like I'm just as strange as you are ;-)
--
Willem
Rob
Miriam Rocke heeft geschreven in bericht <7s0v6o$k0q$1...@mark.ucdavis.edu>...>: >>> b
>: >>> e
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>: >>> /
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>: >>> /
>: >Just biting is something else than licking and feeling.
>: >
>: >Remember the scene at the cage where Buffy said something like a
vampire's
>: >personality having nothing to do with the human he/she was before ?
>: >Angel wanted to disagree but opted not to do so.
>: >This scene hinted clearly that nice Willow could be more alike to Bad
>: Willow
>: >than someone would think.
>: >Including the bi thing.
>: >beautiful girls kissing than two hairy constuctionworkers with
beerbellies
>: >and "mom" tattoes).
>: <g> And may I add that I'd rather see two cute guys do the tonsil hockey
>: thing than two hairy female construction workers with beer bellies
>: and such. :))
>
>have beer bellies and stuff...? And would they have "mom" tattoes or
>"dad" tattoes? And is this totally off topic? I know the answer to
>one of those questions. :)
>
>obBtVS comment: There seems to be more f/f hintings [Willow-bi
>implications and the Buffy/Faith dance in Bad Girls
I beg your pardon ? [looking up with interest]
being two fairly
>strong examples of that] than m/m hintings [unless you really stretch
>Xander/Giles or Xander/Oz scenes].
>
Yes really, really, really stretch.
>: Andrea
>: (formerly known as Hanneke :)))
>
Rob
Andrea heeft geschreven in bericht <7s0po6$t36$1...@news.worldonline.nl>...
>(formerly known as Hanneke :)))
>
Let's just say : live and let live.
But what's with the change in name ?
Rob
Rob
Alexander Darke heeft geschreven in bericht
<37e70dfc...@news.ne.mediaone.net>...
>On Sat, 18 Sep 1999 21:14:27 +0200, "Rob" <zwa...@gironet.nl> wrote:
>
>
>>(And call me strange, but given the choice I would rather see two soft,
>>beautiful girls kissing than two hairy constuctionworkers with beerbellies
>>and "mom" tattoes).
>
>my way then. Waste not, want not.
>
>Alex, fond of that sort ;o)
It seems it's just a matter of opinion or taste or preference.
Nobody's right or wrong, we're just different.
So be it.
Rob
John Baker
(Willem Tel) wrote:
> She is from an alternate reality, you know. Although some things are
> the same, many things are very different
It's not really an alternate reality; it's our own timeline with the
simple change made of Buffy never coming to Sunnydale. Thus the spell Anya
was trying to cast with Willow - to >>>reach back in time<<< to retrieve
Anyanka's amulet.
Miriam Rocke
:
: Miriam Rocke heeft geschreven in bericht <7s0v6o$k0q$1...@mark.ucdavis.edu>...
: >Andrea (en...@club.tip.nl) wrote:
: >:
: >: Rob said:
: >: >
: >: >>
: >: >>> b
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:
: >obBtVS comment: There seems to be more f/f hintings [Willow-bi
: >implications and the Buffy/Faith dance in Bad Girls
: I beg your pardon ? [looking up with interest]
What, you hadn't noticed? *grin*
[...Bad Girls *is* pre-DGL, right? I'm not violating spoiler
territory here?]
After Buffy and Faith retrieve the amulet, there's a scene at the
Bronze where they're dancing; there's a circle of guys around them,
and one could argue that the fairly suggestive dancing they were doing
at each other was merely to turn the guys on, but I remember net
discussions on whether the f/f element was text or just subtext. It's
a bit hard to miss. :)
Miriam Rocke
: In article <37e49f3f...@news.capitolonline.nl>, me1...@hotmail.com
Was it really back in time, though, or was that just her excuse?
Because she wasn't just going back in time; she *had* to cross
dimensions, possibly because retrieving the amulet at the moment of
destruction wouldn't cause as much of a paradox as retrieving it
before Cordy's wish. Also because the writers needed a convenient
plot point. <g>
And technically, it is an alternate reality.[1] Things are different.
Yes, things were same up to the moment Buffy was supposed to arrive in
Sunnydale. [The exact moment of same-up-to-ness partly depends on
whether the power of the wish changed *only* that-- like, Buffy's mom
got a flat tire on the way down-- or fudged with the timeline even
before that so there's a reason why Buffy wasn't there.] And even
though the initial change was simple, because of chaos theory or
convenient storytelling or whatever, the December-1998 point of the
alt timeline is very different from the Dec-1998 point of the
standard timeline. I'm not sure how it could be not an alternate
timeline, actually-- or, if it isn't an alternate timeline, how
anything else is, since most alt-timeline fics take a "What if this
moment were different" or "What if this did/never did happen?"
divergence from standard timeline.
[1] To be pedantic, all alternate timelines share a point in common--
the big bang, if nothing else-- except those timelines where the
universe was never formed, but those are boring timelines.
Eric L Bailey
Rocke) wrote:
The Buffy/Faith subtext discussions had been going on since Faith's
introduction, with the Slayer Pride parade comment, the "Really, we're
just friends" scene, Xander's comment about Buffy & Faith "getting
sweaty", Faith being Buffy's Homecoming date, etc. With Bad Girls,
the subtext was rapidly becoming text, with the "Hey, girlfriend" with
the heart traced on the window (That probably got a lot of talk in
that classroom), and the dance scene, among other things :)
E
Keith
>
>Spoilers for Doppelgängland
>
>s s
>p p
>o a
>i c
>l e
>e
> p
>s a
>p c
>o e
>i
>l s
>e p
>r a
> c
>s e
>p
>o s
>i p
>l a
>e c
>r e
>
44 minutes, it's the usual length!
Keith
Rob
Miriam Rocke heeft geschreven in bericht <7s1rp0$fnr$1...@mark.ucdavis.edu>...
>Rob (zwa...@gironet.nl) wrote:
>:
>: Miriam Rocke heeft geschreven in bericht
<7s0v6o$k0q$1...@mark.ucdavis.edu>...
>: >Andrea (en...@club.tip.nl) wrote:
>: >:
>: >: Rob said:
>: >: >
>: >: >>
>: >: >>> b
>: >: >>> e
>: >: >>> w
>: >: >>> a
>: >: >>> r
>: >: >>> e
>: >: >>>
>: >: >>> p
>: >: >>> o
>: >: >>> i
>: >: >>> l
>: >: >>> e
>: >: >>> r
>: >: >>> s
>: >: >>> /
>: >: >>> /
>: >: >>> /
>: >: >>> /
>: >: >>> /
>: >: >>> /
>: >: >>> /
>: >:
>:
>: >obBtVS comment: There seems to be more f/f hintings [Willow-bi
>: >implications and the Buffy/Faith dance in Bad Girls
>: I beg your pardon ? [looking up with interest]
>
>What, you hadn't noticed? *grin*
>
>[...Bad Girls *is* pre-DGL, right? I'm not violating spoiler
>territory here?]
>
>After Buffy and Faith retrieve the amulet, there's a scene at the
>Bronze where they're dancing; there's a circle of guys around them,
>and one could argue that the fairly suggestive dancing they were doing
>at each other was merely to turn the guys on, but I remember net
>discussions on whether the f/f element was text or just subtext. It's
>a bit hard to miss. :)
>
I saw (and remembered) the scene but I didn't conceive it as a possible gay
thing.
Especially because Buffy greeted Angel VERY warmly, just moments later.
Rob
Miriam Rocke
:
: Miriam Rocke heeft geschreven in bericht <7s1rp0$fnr$1...@mark.ucdavis.edu>...
: >After Buffy and Faith retrieve the amulet, there's a scene at the
: >Bronze where they're dancing; there's a circle of guys around them,
: >and one could argue that the fairly suggestive dancing they were doing
: >at each other was merely to turn the guys on, but I remember net
: >discussions on whether the f/f element was text or just subtext. It's
: >a bit hard to miss. :)
:
: I saw (and remembered) the scene but I didn't conceive it as a possible gay
: thing.
: Especially because Buffy greeted Angel VERY warmly, just moments later.
Well, obviously Buffy isn't purely gay, else she wouldn't've fallen
for Angel. Faith I'm not sure about-- I think she'll take partners of
either sex, though she might draw the line at llamas [they spit,
y'know] [1], and one could argue that she has a Thing for Buffy.
But still, just because Buffy does have a boyfriend [or at least an
on-again/off-again type good-bad-good-inhell-animalistic-good
boyfriend] doesn't mean that her scenes with Faith don't have lesbian
text/subtext, whether it's intentional on the character's part or not.
With the dance, the main thing was just "Hi, I'm reeeeally sexually
charged." Buffy had fallen into Faith's post-Slaying-horniness. So
she greeted Angel with the same enthusiasm as she'd used for the
dancing.
Mir
[1] Yes, I'm being just a bit silly
Andrea
Peter asked:
>
>What happened?
<g> Nothing happened. It's just that I may get myself another job soon that
requires an email address, so I figured it might be wise to completely
separate my decent professional self from my rambling mind-in-the-gutter
alter ego. :)))
Andrea
Andrea
Miriam said:
>:
>: Rob said:
>: >
>: >>
>: >>> b
>: >>> e
>: >>> w
>: >>> a
>: >>> r
>: >>> e
>: >>>
>: >>> s
>: >>> p
>: >>> o
>: >>> i
>: >>> l
>: >>> e
>: >>> r
>: >>> s
>: >>> /
>: >>> /
>: >>> /
>: >>> /
>: >>> /
>: >>> /
>: >>> /
>:
>: thing than two hairy female construction workers with beer bellies
>: and such. :))
>
>have beer bellies and stuff...? And would they have "mom" tattoes or
>"dad" tattoes?
Hm. Perhaps they would have Mom bellies and beer tattoos?
And is this totally off topic? I know the answer to
>one of those questions. :)
Well, it seems George isn't around, so I'd say it's fairly safe to OT for
now. :)
>
>obBtVS comment: There seems to be more f/f hintings [Willow-bi
>implications and the Buffy/Faith dance in Bad Girls being two fairly
>strong examples of that] than m/m hintings [unless you really stretch
>Xander/Giles or Xander/Oz scenes].
Well, I really don't mind stretching, but I can't see Xander, or Giles, or
Oz being anything but totally straight. But if I'm not mistaken, I remember
Angel kissing Spike on the forehead once. :)
Andrea
(stretching)
Andrea
Willem said:
>Well, at least it's just a name change and not a sex change :-)
<worried face> Those FBI-gentlemen talked about a whole new identity. You
don't think...? Nah.
Andrea :)
Peter Kleiweg
So which is which?
--
Peter Kleiweg | P e t r o n o m i c o n |
e-mail: xl -> nl | http://www.let.rug.nl/~kleiweg |
Guardian of Spike's Innocence, and his Dislike of Puppies
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I've shown you a new world. Knowledge, power... I can give you
everything. All I want is your love.
-- Moloch, I, Robot -- You, Jane
Andrea
Peter said:
>Andrea skriver...
>
>>
>> Peter asked:
>>
>> >
>> >What happened?
>>
>>
>> <g> Nothing happened. It's just that I may get myself another job soon
that
>> requires an email address, so I figured it might be wise to completely
>> separate my decent professional self from my rambling mind-in-the-gutter
>> alter ego. :)))
>
>So which is which?
Hey, my decent professional self wouldn't even admit watching Buffy, let
alone ramble or do the mind-in-the-gutter thing. :))
Andrea
Riddler
> Rob said:
> >
> >(And call me strange, but given the choice I would rather see two soft,
> >beautiful girls kissing than two hairy constuctionworkers with beerbellies
> >and "mom" tattoes).
>
> <g> And may I add that I'd rather see two cute guys do the tonsil hockey
> thing
> than two hairy female construction workers with beer bellies and such. :))
Raise your hand if ewww . . .
Jeremy Billones
In article <ujlv5qVA$GA.135@cpmsnbbsa05>,
Robert Barr <bar...@email.msn.com> wrote:
>
>William George Ferguson wrote in message
><3qDiN1uoCsb+1p...@4ax.com>...
>>On Fri, 17 Sep 1999 21:30:58 +0200, "Rob" <zwa...@gironet.nl> wrote:
>>
b
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>>>But would I make a chance ? It seems to me that the writers made a clear
>>>effort to hint to us that (evil, but also nice) Willow might be bi-sexual
>>>(or even gay).
>>Lessee. "That's me as a vampire? I'm so evil. And skanky. And I
>>think I'm kind of gay."
>>It's a stretch, but I can see how that could be interpreted as
>>implying that the character might be gay :)
>No, not a stretch. Remember Buffy's comment that follows, saying that the
>vamp has very little in common with the human it used to be, and then Angel
>started to interrupt -- and then exercised a little tact. The hint, of
>course, was that there IS something in common (the trait in question, in
>this case) between human and vamp Willow.
I disagree. While there's certainly a *tease* of a bi-Willow, it demonstrates
that Willow doesn't see *herself* as being gay. She doesn't see herself
as evil or skanky either; she sees those three traits as differences between
VampWillow and herself.
(And while Vamps do borrow from their former hosts, they do bring stuff of
their own to the table, yes?)
--
Jeremy Billones
"Personally I don't see any connection between "The Craft" and "Charmed"."
- Miguel E. Lopez <lo...@dakotacom.net>
Eric L Bailey
wrote:
I wouldn't think a newborn vampire demon, in and of itself, would have
any discernable personality. It would be evil, sure, but have to
build itself around the repressed parts of the personality of who it's
become a part of. Angel seemed about to say as much, until he
realized Willow was freaking out enough already.
Willow's always been a bit repressed. She's always had trouble
dealing with her feelings and expressing them, sort of the anti-Cordy.
From what we've seen of her family life, it's easy to see how she got
this way. Look at how hard it was for her to acknowledge and express
attraction to boys she was into. Look at how petrified she was at the
thought of leaving campus during school hours even though she knew she
was allowed to.
Willow has always had trouble with her sexuality. There's her
discussion with Buffy on the subject of talking to boys in WTTH, her
covering up a revealing costume with a sheet in Halloween, etc. She
has problems with having any sort of dark side, as well. Earlier in
the episode, she tells Buffy that some people don't have that in them,
after Buffy observes that under different circumstances, she could be
Faith. With her vampire counterpart, Willow had Buffy's point driven
home in the most personal way possible. Alt.Willow didn't repress
anything. Given that Willow already had major problems dealing with
hetero drives, she'd have even more trouble dealing with lesbian
feelings.
I'm curious to see what will happen with Willow this season, now that
she's away from home, and all but one of the people she grew up with.
What I've seen happen often to girls who'd been shy and introverted
growing up but suddenly had all this freedom once they got into
college is that they go a bit overboard with it, and get EXTREMELY
wild and experimental. They want to try everything. Buffy could
really have her hands full...
Xander: What do you mean you nearly got arrested?!!!
Buffy: Look, things just got out of hand...
Xander: Um, Faith IS still in a coma, isn't she?
Buffy: Sigh. YES, Faith is still in a coma.
Xander: Then how did all that happen?!!! I thought you were going to
be with Willow all night.
Buffy: I WAS with Willow all night.
Xander: Wait. You were with Willow all night, and now you're
tatooed?
Buffy: Yeah, Willow got these dolphins...
Xander: WHAT?!!! You're dragging Willow into tatoo parlors?!!
Buffy: It wasn't my idea, OK?!!! She talked me into a few jello
shots and the next thing I knew...
Xander: This is Willow we're talking about, right?
Buffy: You mean the girl setting up a webcam in our dormroom? Yeah.
Anyway, I have to go. Willow's arranged some photoshoot for us for
some magazine doing some sort of "Girls of UC-Sunnydale" thing...
E