Buffy 6x20: 'Villains' (spoilers)
Niall Harrison
Without looking at what everyone else has written...
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Did you see those special effects? Guess we know where the budget for the
season went, now. Those were some nifty special effects - I particularly
liked the inky-black letters crawling over Willow's skin as she absorbed
the dark magic. Nice.
Shame about the rest of the episode, really.
OK, so the start isn't too bad. Some nice direction, I thought, and a good
sense of urgency...but then things start to fall apart. For all the
running around, very little actually happens in 'Villains' (especially in
the second half; the act II break is Willow walking off in search of
Warren, and it's not until act IV that she actually finds him. Very
intimidating) and it's not even very theme-y. I get the impression this
was meant to be like 'Lie To Me' - who are the white hats, and who are the
black hats? What is a villain? What is evil? Trouble is, nothing in the
episode really addresses that question. Unlike 'Lie To Me', there's no
confusion about good and bad, no greyness about character's actions.
Willow has leaped off the wagon with both feet to become a black hat;
Spike is off trying to regain his black hat status, but is clearly going
to become human; Clem is exactly what he appears to be; and so on.
Along the way, there are character decisions that just made me go 'huh'?
For instance...
- Buffy taking Dawn to Spike? Say *what*? Yeah, I know Xander called her
on it. That's not the point. The point is, it undermines what little value
the bathroom seen in 'Seeing Red' had in the first place. Oh, and it makes
Buffy look deeply, deeply stupid.
- Anya is revealed to still be a vengeance demon (in a rather nice scene,
actually), and the reaction from Buffy and Xander is...what? Nothing, as
far as I could tell. Sure, they've got bigger things to deal with, but
you'd think they could spare a *little* shock that their friend/ex-lover
has, of her own free will, decided to go back to maiming and killing in
the name of vengeance.
There were other things that annoyed me. The big floating head of
exposition at the beginning, for instance, which was there for no purpose
at all other than to tell Willow, and us, things that we already knew. Or
the scene between Buffy, Xander and Dawn after they take Tara's body away
in which MN tells us how we're supposed to think about the events of the
episode in a depressingly unsubtle way. And how did Spike get to Africa in
a day?
OK, yes, there's a certain fun to be had from watching the exploits of
Dark Willow. But that's all there is to 'Villains': brainless fun.
(Plus, there's nothing this episode says about vengeance that hasn't been
already said better by _Angel_ S3. Oh, c'mon - I waited right until the
end of the post to say anything!)
Niall
--
My stars, it's full of gods...
dieter
news:abs2q2$9nb$1...@news.ox.ac.uk:
> (Plus, there's nothing this episode says about vengeance that hasn't
> been already said better by _Angel_ S3. Oh, c'mon - I waited right
> until the end of the post to say anything!)
I'd appreciate it if you (or anyone following up on this) limit the
unmarked Angel stuff in the Buffy post. Totally unspoiled here and
following dutch tv. Thanks :)
Oh and about Buffy, well...I pretty much loved this episode to bits. It's
late so I'll leave the discussion to someone else. Suffice to say I don't
agree with your view. (and I already wrote some stuff in Mattia's post)
Mattia Valente
>
> Without looking at what everyone else has written...
Okidoki..
Yes. But I really wanted to see it in widescreen. I dunno, maybe it was
just 'Angel' WS overload, but that 16:9 frame just helps this kind of
story expand more, I feel. Okay, so it's not framed for it, but I still
think it would look better. Whenever I think of S5 now, I think of it in
widescreen, despite the fact I've seen it most often in 4:3.
> Shame about the rest of the episode, really.
Oy! It wasn't *that* bad. Spiral, in a number of ways, was tackier.
> OK, so the start isn't too bad. Some nice direction, I thought, and a good
> sense of urgency...but then things start to fall apart. For all the
As far as true Urgency goes, sure, but, maybe I'm a big sappy fool, I
had a nice adrenaline rush vibe thing going for more or less the entire
thing. A few things were a bit 'okay, dammit, get to the point!', but
still.
> running around, very little actually happens in 'Villains' (especially in
> the second half; the act II break is Willow walking off in search of
> Warren, and it's not until act IV that she actually finds him. Very
> intimidating)
Well, no. But she finds Robo!Warren first. Y'know, and stuff. She's
being all cold and methodical.
> and it's not even very theme-y.
It feels more like setup for potential themey-ness. The ground it covers
in terms of good vs evil isn't particularly new or groundbreaking,
unfortunately, which lessens the impact some.
> I get the impression this
> was meant to be like 'Lie To Me' - who are the white hats, and who are the
> black hats? What is a villain? What is evil? Trouble is, nothing in the
> episode really addresses that question.
Well, no. But isn't it a bit unfair to compare it to one of the best and
most underrated episodes of 'Buffy' in, like, ever?
> Unlike 'Lie To Me', there's no
> confusion about good and bad, no greyness about character's actions.
No. But the motivations aren't evil, which is the only interesting
thing. It's a bit of an extreme 'ooh, look what she's capable of', and,
well, I'll only get very ticked off if we come out of it and WIllow's
all 'oh, I'm sorry, my magic addiction made me do it!' and the gang is
all 'oh, it's OK, WIll, really!'.
> Willow has leaped off the wagon with both feet to become a black hat;
Pretty much. Who's intentions (however black) are driven by whiteness.
It's like youknowwho in that other show, just without the wondrous
subtelty or possible true moral justification and all that. But I think
that's more or less a given. And that's all I'm going to allude too.
> Spike is off trying to regain his black hat status, but is clearly going
> to become human;
I'm wondering if it's just a single bluff, or a double bluff, or exactly
what it seems. We'll have to see, but I don't know if we'll see this
coming week. Petrie and Fury, though....both good with Spike, so maybe,
maybe....
> Clem is exactly what he appears to be; and so on.
Well, yeah. But Clem is a bit dull.
> Along the way, there are character decisions that just made me go 'huh'?
> For instance...
Hit me.
> - Buffy taking Dawn to Spike? Say *what*? Yeah, I know Xander called her
> on it. That's not the point. The point is, it undermines what little value
> the bathroom seen in 'Seeing Red' had in the first place. Oh, and it makes
> Buffy look deeply, deeply stupid.
.....mwah. Worked okay for me. Reasons: Dawn doesn't know about Spike,
Spike really can't hurt Dawn, and Buffy's got too much other crap on her
mind (like, oh, Willow and a rampage, Tara dead, and herself getting
shot.) It was clumsy, because the only purpose it served was to tell the
scoobs that Spike had skipped town, and yes, Buffy, not the brightest
bulb, but still.
> - Anya is revealed to still be a vengeance demon (in a rather nice scene,
> actually),
Yep.
> and the reaction from Buffy and Xander is...what? Nothing, as
> far as I could tell. Sure, they've got bigger things to deal with, but
> you'd think they could spare a *little* shock that their friend/ex-lover
> has, of her own free will, decided to go back to maiming and killing in
> the name of vengeance.
Actually, that worked just fine for me. The reactions were very
downplayed, Xander's more or less as I'd expect right now, Buffy's
walking around in a daze for more or less the whole episode, really,
so...
> There were other things that annoyed me. The big floating head of
> exposition at the beginning, for instance, which was there for no purpose
> at all other than to tell Willow, and us, things that we already knew. Or
Floating Head talked too much, yes. But it told us things we thought we
knew, but that many, many people would still be bitching about. Recall,
if you will, the argument about whether or not Buffy actually died from
mystical means that raged (and raged and raged). It's settled now. She
did. That's why she could be brought back. Willow was right in
'Bargaining'.
> the scene between Buffy, Xander and Dawn after they take Tara's body away
> in which MN tells us how we're supposed to think about the events of the
> episode in a depressingly unsubtle way.
Exposition writing is not Noxon's forte, and it's really too bad.
Because we had the chance to have a really good moment there, instead of
sledgehammer subtlety.
> And how did Spike get to Africa in a day?
Carribean is my guess, because Africa strikes me as VERY unlikely. Must
see the shooting script for that.
> OK, yes, there's a certain fun to be had from watching the exploits of
> Dark Willow. But that's all there is to 'Villains': brainless fun.
Well, not quite brainless. I'm hoping it's good setup to a more meaty
finale, that it's the 'Weight of the World' of the final three, if you
will, in a different order, but I guess we'll have to wait and see. The
risk I percieve is the usual: first half, Petrie, gets stuff done,
character work, etc. Second half, Fury gets wild with blowing things up
and neglects the story. Like the premiere, if you will. I'm going into
this season finale with distinctly mixed feelings, and not a whole lot
of hope for a truly spectacular ending. We'll see.
> (Plus, there's nothing this episode says about vengeance that hasn't been
> already said better by _Angel_ S3. Oh, c'mon - I waited right until the
> end of the post to say anything!)
Yeah yeah...
oh, and *smap*
Mattia
--
"My beagle went swimming today and now he's typing on my keyboard with
his ample nose. Oh, and he's the bestest handsomeest beagle EVER."
--Tim Minear, Salon.com, May 2001
Niall Harrison
> Okidoki..
There's a shocker. ;-)
> I dunno, maybe it was
> just 'Angel' WS overload, but that 16:9 frame just helps this kind of
> story expand more, I feel. Okay, so it's not framed for it, but I still
> think it would look better. Whenever I think of S5 now, I think of it in
> widescreen, despite the fact I've seen it most often in 4:3.
I can't say I've noticed anything special about the few S5 WS broadcasts
that I've seen, probably because I also saw it in 4:3 first. Whereas S4 I
saw in WS first, so the 4:3 versions seem weird.
>> Shame about the rest of the episode, really.
>
> Oy! It wasn't *that* bad. Spiral, in a number of ways, was tackier.
You think? I agree they both do the same job, but I prefer 'Spiral', since
I think the character moments there work better.
I do wonder if I'm being a bit hard on this episode...but I really was
disappointed.
>> OK, so the start isn't too bad. Some nice direction, I thought, and a good
>> sense of urgency...but then things start to fall apart. For all the
>
> As far as true Urgency goes, sure, but, maybe I'm a big sappy fool, I
> had a nice adrenaline rush vibe thing going for more or less the entire
> thing. A few things were a bit 'okay, dammit, get to the point!', but
> still.
For me, it kinda tailed off after the Warrenbot got destroyed. I started
waiting for more things to happen, and they didn't.
>> and it's not even very theme-y.
>
> It feels more like setup for potential themey-ness. The ground it covers
> in terms of good vs evil isn't particularly new or groundbreaking,
> unfortunately, which lessens the impact some.
Well, that's the thing. It's got one of those titles that suggests it
should be really theme-y...but then it isn't.
>> I get the impression this
>> was meant to be like 'Lie To Me' - who are the white hats, and who are the
>> black hats? What is a villain? What is evil? Trouble is, nothing in the
>> episode really addresses that question.
>
> Well, no. But isn't it a bit unfair to compare it to one of the best and
> most underrated episodes of 'Buffy' in, like, ever?
Yes. And a JW script to boot. Your point? :-)
>> Unlike 'Lie To Me', there's no
>> confusion about good and bad, no greyness about character's actions.
>
> No. But the motivations aren't evil, which is the only interesting
> thing. It's a bit of an extreme 'ooh, look what she's capable of', and,
> well, I'll only get very ticked off if we come out of it and WIllow's
> all 'oh, I'm sorry, my magic addiction made me do it!' and the gang is
> all 'oh, it's OK, WIll, really!'.
I'm expecting some kind of "I can't live with the pain, so neither can
anyone else!" Willow-induced apocalypse at the moment. I don't think she's
going to kill Jonathan and Andrew, since despite their flaws they're
essentially good guys at heart and the writers aren't going to let Willow
get quite *that* dark.
I don't see Dark Will hanging around into next season.
>> Willow has leaped off the wagon with both feet to become a black hat;
>
> Pretty much. Who's intentions (however black) are driven by whiteness.
> It's like youknowwho in that other show, just without the wondrous
> subtelty or possible true moral justification and all that. But I think
> that's more or less a given. And that's all I'm going to allude too.
Fair enough.
>> Spike is off trying to regain his black hat status, but is clearly going
>> to become human;
>
> I'm wondering if it's just a single bluff, or a double bluff, or exactly
> what it seems. We'll have to see, but I don't know if we'll see this
> coming week. Petrie and Fury, though....both good with Spike, so maybe,
> maybe....
Not getting the chip out, Mattia. Dream on. :-)
>> Clem is exactly what he appears to be; and so on.
>
> Well, yeah. But Clem is a bit dull.
And yet people go mad for him. Weird.
>> Along the way, there are character decisions that just made me go 'huh'?
>> For instance...
>
> Hit me.
*thwap*
>> - Buffy taking Dawn to Spike? Say *what*? Yeah, I know Xander called her
>> on it. That's not the point. The point is, it undermines what little value
>> the bathroom seen in 'Seeing Red' had in the first place. Oh, and it makes
>> Buffy look deeply, deeply stupid.
>
> .....mwah. Worked okay for me. Reasons: Dawn doesn't know about Spike,
> Spike really can't hurt Dawn,
I know, you can logic it away. But it's too jarring for me to suddenly go
from the "Spike is Evil! Look!" of last week to "Spike has a chip, so he
can look after Dawn".
Spike has proved more than once he's capable of hurting those he cares
about, even with the chip in place.
[Anya]
>> and the reaction from Buffy and Xander is...what? Nothing, as
>> far as I could tell. Sure, they've got bigger things to deal with, but
>> you'd think they could spare a *little* shock that their friend/ex-lover
>> has, of her own free will, decided to go back to maiming and killing in
>> the name of vengeance.
>
> Actually, that worked just fine for me. The reactions were very
> downplayed, Xander's more or less as I'd expect right now, Buffy's
> walking around in a daze for more or less the whole episode, really,
> so...
I was rather cheered that Anya said she was going to help Willow. If she
now has an about-face and decide to help the scoobies, though...well,
that'd be almost as bad as Spike being good.
>> There were other things that annoyed me. The big floating head of
>> exposition at the beginning, for instance, which was there for no purpose
>> at all other than to tell Willow, and us, things that we already knew. Or
>
> Floating Head talked too much, yes. But it told us things we thought we
> knew, but that many, many people would still be bitching about. Recall,
> if you will, the argument about whether or not Buffy actually died from
> mystical means that raged (and raged and raged). It's settled now. She
> did. That's why she could be brought back. Willow was right in
> 'Bargaining'.
But we already knew that. It was already in the canon of the show. I
wouldn't mind them reiterating it so much if it wasn't a conversation
between two beings who both know the facts already.
>> the scene between Buffy, Xander and Dawn after they take Tara's body away
>> in which MN tells us how we're supposed to think about the events of the
>> episode in a depressingly unsubtle way.
>
> Exposition writing is not Noxon's forte, and it's really too bad.
> Because we had the chance to have a really good moment there, instead of
> sledgehammer subtlety.
Yep.
Plus, odd that nobody mentioned souls, I thought.
>> And how did Spike get to Africa in a day?
>
> Carribean is my guess, because Africa strikes me as VERY unlikely. Must
> see the shooting script for that.
Check. Any sign yet?
And did you say the script for 3x21 was up? I can't see it on psyche.
>> OK, yes, there's a certain fun to be had from watching the exploits of
>> Dark Willow. But that's all there is to 'Villains': brainless fun.
>
> Well, not quite brainless. I'm hoping it's good setup to a more meaty
> finale, that it's the 'Weight of the World' of the final three, if you
> will, in a different order, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.
I think it's 'Spiral', personally. 6x21 will be WotW, but I think it'll be
less noticeable because of being in a two-hour block.
> The
> risk I percieve is the usual: first half, Petrie, gets stuff done,
> character work, etc. Second half, Fury gets wild with blowing things up
> and neglects the story. Like the premiere, if you will.
I have more faith in Fury for the season finale than you do, I think.
Heck, I like 'Primeval'.
> I'm going into
> this season finale with distinctly mixed feelings, and not a whole lot
> of hope for a truly spectacular ending. We'll see.
Oh, it'll be spectacular. That's about the thing you can guarantee at this
point, I think; lots of impressive special effects.
>> (Plus, there's nothing this episode says about vengeance that hasn't been
>> already said better by _Angel_ S3. Oh, c'mon - I waited right until the
>> end of the post to say anything!)
>
> Yeah yeah...
Well, am I wrong?
> oh, and *smap*
Hmph.
Niall
--
Rockin' the suburbs.
Mattia Valente
:-p
> > I dunno, maybe it was
> > just 'Angel' WS overload, but that 16:9 frame just helps this kind of
> > story expand more, I feel. Okay, so it's not framed for it, but I still
> > think it would look better. Whenever I think of S5 now, I think of it in
> > widescreen, despite the fact I've seen it most often in 4:3.
>
> I can't say I've noticed anything special about the few S5 WS broadcasts
> that I've seen, probably because I also saw it in 4:3 first. Whereas S4 I
> saw in WS first, so the 4:3 versions seem weird.
Hmm...nope, it just adds a bit of 'epic' feel to it. Granted, most of S6
doesn't do 'epic' or grand at all, really, but this is an attempt at it,
at the very least. That, and I just really really like WS. Ahum.
> >> Shame about the rest of the episode, really.
> >
> > Oy! It wasn't *that* bad. Spiral, in a number of ways, was tackier.
>
> You think? I agree they both do the same job, but I prefer 'Spiral', since
> I think the character moments there work better.
The character moments are nicer (*sigh*...I miss Giles, dammit), and the
whole Key storyline had a great runup before then, but it also had the
Winnebago. And stupid knights on horses. And Spike in goggles, which
still makes me crack up, but is oh so silly. This had a more consistent
feel, although it did get a bit klutzy at times, and the pacing wasn't
all it could've been.
> I do wonder if I'm being a bit hard on this episode...but I really was
> disappointed.
So was Steve. I'm a bit ambivalent. The bits that worked, worked well.
But something just seemed to be missing. Not sure what, but something.
Possibly depth. Or themes. Something.
> >> OK, so the start isn't too bad. Some nice direction, I thought, and a good
> >> sense of urgency...but then things start to fall apart. For all the
> >
> > As far as true Urgency goes, sure, but, maybe I'm a big sappy fool, I
> > had a nice adrenaline rush vibe thing going for more or less the entire
> > thing. A few things were a bit 'okay, dammit, get to the point!', but
> > still.
>
> For me, it kinda tailed off after the Warrenbot got destroyed. I started
> waiting for more things to happen, and they didn't.
Well, 'cept for the shocking bit. Y'know, where we see Warren's
chesthair. Uh, I mean, the torture scene bit complete with B-Movie 'that
axe won't kill me' possesion-y type shennanigans.
> >> and it's not even very theme-y.
> >
> > It feels more like setup for potential themey-ness. The ground it covers
> > in terms of good vs evil isn't particularly new or groundbreaking,
> > unfortunately, which lessens the impact some.
>
> Well, that's the thing. It's got one of those titles that suggests it
> should be really theme-y...but then it isn't.
Yesh. Egschactly.
> >> I get the impression this
> >> was meant to be like 'Lie To Me' - who are the white hats, and who are the
> >> black hats? What is a villain? What is evil? Trouble is, nothing in the
> >> episode really addresses that question.
> >
> > Well, no. But isn't it a bit unfair to compare it to one of the best and
> > most underrated episodes of 'Buffy' in, like, ever?
>
> Yes. And a JW script to boot. Your point? :-)
You're evil?
> > No. But the motivations aren't evil, which is the only interesting
> > thing. It's a bit of an extreme 'ooh, look what she's capable of', and,
> > well, I'll only get very ticked off if we come out of it and WIllow's
> > all 'oh, I'm sorry, my magic addiction made me do it!' and the gang is
> > all 'oh, it's OK, WIll, really!'.
>
> I'm expecting some kind of "I can't live with the pain, so neither can
> anyone else!" Willow-induced apocalypse at the moment. I don't think she's
> going to kill Jonathan and Andrew, since despite their flaws they're
> essentially good guys at heart and the writers aren't going to let Willow
> get quite *that* dark.
Well, um, she did say 'One down...', or did ya miss out on that one? But
no, I don't really think they'll do that, let her kill off all three of
the nerds in one swift stroke. That's a bit too dark, even for this
season, quite frankly. But I'm not quite sure about Andrew's
goodguyness. He's got followerness in his heart, and maybe he'll be all
mad and go evil because Willow killed his one true love, and we have the
faceoff of the Gay People with Dead Lovers as our big season finish!!!!
....okay, that was just...lame and pathetic. I apologise profuself for
that. Must control those urges to type wonky possibly further plot
developments.
> I don't see Dark Will hanging around into next season.
Not really, no. It would turn into wacky comedic stuff like the
adventures of Buffy and Evil Vampire Willow. Y'know, the slashy comic.
> >> Willow has leaped off the wagon with both feet to become a black hat;
> >
> > Pretty much. Who's intentions (however black) are driven by whiteness.
> > It's like youknowwho in that other show, just without the wondrous
> > subtelty or possible true moral justification and all that. But I think
> > that's more or less a given. And that's all I'm going to allude too.
>
> Fair enough.
We both know what we're talking about, and I agree with you, so...
> > I'm wondering if it's just a single bluff, or a double bluff, or exactly
> > what it seems. We'll have to see, but I don't know if we'll see this
> > coming week. Petrie and Fury, though....both good with Spike, so maybe,
> > maybe....
>
> Not getting the chip out, Mattia. Dream on. :-)
Grrr.......
:-p
I'm an optimist or something.
> >> Clem is exactly what he appears to be; and so on.
> >
> > Well, yeah. But Clem is a bit dull.
>
> And yet people go mad for him. Weird.
I really, really don't get it. What's to love? No, really. he's flabby,
not particularly funny, and, uh...that's about it.
> >> Along the way, there are character decisions that just made me go 'huh'?
> >> For instance...
> >
> > Hit me.
>
> *thwap*
Ouch..
You're qausi-Pylean with your understanding of American idiom, you are..
> > .....mwah. Worked okay for me. Reasons: Dawn doesn't know about Spike,
> > Spike really can't hurt Dawn,
>
> I know, you can logic it away. But it's too jarring for me to suddenly go
> from the "Spike is Evil! Look!" of last week to "Spike has a chip, so he
> can look after Dawn".
>
> Spike has proved more than once he's capable of hurting those he cares
> about, even with the chip in place.
True enough. But he's never had it in for Dawn. Ever.
> [Anya]
> > Actually, that worked just fine for me. The reactions were very
> > downplayed, Xander's more or less as I'd expect right now, Buffy's
> > walking around in a daze for more or less the whole episode, really,
> > so...
>
> I was rather cheered that Anya said she was going to help Willow. If she
> now has an about-face and decide to help the scoobies, though...well,
> that'd be almost as bad as Spike being good.
Not quite as bad, since she's been shown to actually be all human for a
while. Vengance demons are a bit of an odd bag, though, aren't they?
Formerly human and all that? I thought it interesting that they got
around Anya doing any vengance demon stuff by having Willow not want the
help. Works really well, actually.
/me wonders when they're going to 'use' Hallie....
> > Floating Head talked too much, yes. But it told us things we thought we
> > knew, but that many, many people would still be bitching about. Recall,
> > if you will, the argument about whether or not Buffy actually died from
> > mystical means that raged (and raged and raged). It's settled now. She
> > did. That's why she could be brought back. Willow was right in
> > 'Bargaining'.
>
> But we already knew that. It was already in the canon of the show. I
> wouldn't mind them reiterating it so much if it wasn't a conversation
> between two beings who both know the facts already.
Well, yes. Reiterating wasn't bad, is the point, but the manner in
which? Could've done much better than that. It's a final W/T moment, fer
cryin' out loud!
> > Exposition writing is not Noxon's forte, and it's really too bad.
> > Because we had the chance to have a really good moment there, instead of
> > sledgehammer subtlety.
>
> Yep.
Damned shame.
> Plus, odd that nobody mentioned souls, I thought.
Didn't they? No, guess they didn't. Which is actually just really odd.
> >> And how did Spike get to Africa in a day?
> >
> > Carribean is my guess, because Africa strikes me as VERY unlikely. Must
> > see the shooting script for that.
>
> Check. Any sign yet?
Nope. 'soon', apparently.
> And did you say the script for 3x21 was up? I can't see it on psyche.
Will be soonish. A first draft. Wait a few days.
> > Well, not quite brainless. I'm hoping it's good setup to a more meaty
> > finale, that it's the 'Weight of the World' of the final three, if you
> > will, in a different order, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.
>
> I think it's 'Spiral', personally. 6x21 will be WotW, but I think it'll be
> less noticeable because of being in a two-hour block.
Perhaps. But then, I actually *like* WotW (ignoring all the B/G/B/G/B
switchy bits, mostly), so...
> > The
> > risk I percieve is the usual: first half, Petrie, gets stuff done,
> > character work, etc. Second half, Fury gets wild with blowing things up
> > and neglects the story. Like the premiere, if you will.
>
> I have more faith in Fury for the season finale than you do, I think.
> Heck, I like 'Primeval'.
Wheveas I quite hate it, for a number of plottish reasons. Like the
bonding, like the spell, love the effects (not the blowing shit up, the
Spell effects), but it all felt rushed, forced, and
quick-lets-get-rid-of-that-pesky-lousy-initiative-arc type deal. Sorta
kinda.
> > I'm going into
> > this season finale with distinctly mixed feelings, and not a whole lot
> > of hope for a truly spectacular ending. We'll see.
>
> Oh, it'll be spectacular. That's about the thing you can guarantee at this
> point, I think; lots of impressive special effects.
That's not what I meant, and you know it durned well :-p
But, yeah, should beat out Graduation Day giant snake shenannigans.
> >> (Plus, there's nothing this episode says about vengeance that hasn't been
> >> already said better by _Angel_ S3. Oh, c'mon - I waited right until the
> >> end of the post to say anything!)
> >
> > Yeah yeah...
>
> Well, am I wrong?
No.
> > oh, and *smap*
>
> Hmph.
:-p
I'm your chip. I'm trying to condition you to not drag 'Angel' into it
each time. I, of course, will continue to do so as often as I please.