(Advance) Five-Star Poll: 5x17 "Underneath"
Tafka
And yay!
Please vote here for the umta/abe five-star poll for Angel S5:
0 - Bad
5 - Brilliant
VCD, HDTV & sub 100mb DivX are all out at the usual places.
-Tafka-
This is the City of the Angels and you haven't got any wings.
Tafka
Tafka <tafka...@nospam-spamfree.boltfree.net>. alt.buffy.europe. Fri,
16 Apr 2004 01:53:36 +0100:
>And we're bbbbbbbbbbbbback!
>
>And yay!
>
>Please vote here for the umta/abe five-star poll for Angel S5:
>
>0 - Bad
>5 - Brilliant
>
>VCD, HDTV & sub 100mb DivX are all out at the usual places.
I enjoyed it, lots of goodness.
4.45
-Tafka-
You're so wrapped up in layers onion boy, your afraid of your own feelings.
Tafka
Tafka <tafka...@nospam-spamfree.boltfree.net>. alt.buffy.europe. Fri,
>I want names, I want places, I want dates.
>Tafka <tafka...@nospam-spamfree.boltfree.net>. alt.buffy.europe. Fri,
>16 Apr 2004 01:53:36 +0100:
>
>>And we're bbbbbbbbbbbbback!
>>
>>And yay!
>>
>>Please vote here for the umta/abe five-star poll for Angel S5:
>>
>>0 - Bad
>>5 - Brilliant
>>
>>VCD, HDTV & sub 100mb DivX are all out at the usual places.
Oh, and I liked the new credits.
Well - it's the first time all season IIRC, that I've _seen_ credits but
still. Nice.
-Tafka-
We should have shotguns for this.
Major ChrisB
"Tafka" <tafka...@nospam-spamfree.boltfree.net> wrote in message
news:fsbu70p6ah6dt73og...@4ax.com...
> I want names, I want places, I want dates.
> Tafka <tafka...@nospam-spamfree.boltfree.net>. alt.buffy.europe. Fri,
> 16 Apr 2004 01:53:36 +0100:
>
> >And we're bbbbbbbbbbbbback!
> >
> >And yay!
> >
> >Please vote here for the umta/abe five-star poll for Angel S5:
> >
> >0 - Bad
> >5 - Brilliant
> >
> >VCD, HDTV & sub 100mb DivX are all out at the usual places.
>
> I enjoyed it, lots of goodness.
>
> 4.45
>
I'll go one better with a 4.55
Saskia
> And we're bbbbbbbbbbbbback!
>
> And yay!
:)
One down, 5 to go *sob*
> Please vote here for the umta/abe five-star poll for Angel S5:
4.6 I had a great time!
--
Saskia
http://www.fotolog.net/saskya
Those who talk don't know, those who know don't talk.
Stewart Tolhurst
onwards but the stops are really being pulled out now.
Stewart
--
Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea. (Robert A. Heinlein)
Stewart Tolhurst - http://www.foxbasealpha.net
ICQ: 22636339 MSN: stewart_r_tolhurst
Iain Clark
<tafka...@nospam-spamfree.boltfree.net> wrote:
>And we're bbbbbbbbbbbbback!
>
>And yay!
>
>Please vote here for the umta/abe five-star poll for Angel S5:
>
>0 - Bad
>5 - Brilliant
Just so it's in the right place...
4.4
Iain
--
"What's the difference between an invisible, incorporeal, floating
dragon who spits heatless fire and no dragon at all?"
Linda
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An average to below average episode.
2.0
Illyria's on hold. Is she needed for the finale?
I get it. There's no need to spell it out for me. Anvil's are dropping
everywhere.
Gunn's finally understanding Angel. Angel understood Gunn a long time ago. I
get that. Why repeat it? Obviously for the *new* audience members.
Wesley's drunk. He loved Fred. Why spell it out? For the WB suits of course.
Harmony's now in the opening credits as a regular. Why? 'Cause they need
another female of course.
Spike's Angel's sidekick and gets to show off his wane, shallow body whereas
we don't get to see Angel's wonderful pecs, abs, or much of anything. Very
disappointing. It's not why I watch the show called *Angel*. To see some old
guy's (whose not the lead hero) skinny, small, concave chest.
I was being generous. My spouse and son gave it 1.5 stars. Maybe it's
because I haven't watched any TV shows but Poker for the last two months.
And I guess that when the last episode of Angel airs, I won't be watching
anything much on TV but what I rent from Netflix or Blockbuster.
At least this was better than Fain and Crafts's last script.
Spoilers for next episode.
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Well, it looks like we get to wrap up Connor's storyline with this next
episode.
--
Best regards,
Linda
Mmmmmm......Angel
Andrew Cameron
> Please vote here for the umta/abe five-star poll for Angel S5:
3.5 - Angel has done much better and much much worse.
--
Andrew Cameron
"Got my hand on my heart, I know no better location..."
Tafka
2004 18:15:04 +0100:
>On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 01:53:36 +0100, Tafka
><tafka...@nospam-spamfree.boltfree.net> wrote:
>
>>And we're bbbbbbbbbbbbback!
>>
>>And yay!
>>
>>Please vote here for the umta/abe five-star poll for Angel S5:
>>
>>0 - Bad
>>5 - Brilliant
>
>Just so it's in the right place...
Whereever _you_ are is the right place for me, Clarky!
Next week we'll have the poll thread jumping in your "I'll post my score
since I'm quicker than Tafka! Ha! Look at me in my shiny fast car!
*vroom-vroom*" :P
-Tafka-
You shoot me in a dream, you'd better wake up and apologize.
Iain Clark
<tafka...@nospam-spamfree.boltfree.net> wrote:
>I want names, I want places, I want dates.
>Iain Clark <iain...@dragonhaven.plus.com>. alt.buffy.europe. Fri, 16 Apr
>2004 18:15:04 +0100:
>
>>On Fri, 16 Apr 2004 01:53:36 +0100, Tafka
>><tafka...@nospam-spamfree.boltfree.net> wrote:
>>
>>>And we're bbbbbbbbbbbbback!
>>>
>>>And yay!
>>>
>>>Please vote here for the umta/abe five-star poll for Angel S5:
>>>
>>>0 - Bad
>>>5 - Brilliant
>>
>>Just so it's in the right place...
>
>Whereever _you_ are is the right place for me, Clarky!
>
I may be fast but I'm not loose... ;-P
>Next week we'll have the poll thread jumping in your "I'll post my score
>since I'm quicker than Tafka! Ha! Look at me in my shiny fast car!
>*vroom-vroom*" :P
Right, no more Angel for you, young man. You're clearly over-excited
and in need of a nap.
Iain
--
"Easy to take off
Harder to fly..."
Iain Clark
Dunno, but I found it quite refreshing to focus on slowly unraveling
her psyche, in a personal debate with Wes. It's much more mature and
believable than flinging her into the mix as some kind of
crime-fighting Anya knock-off.
It follows on from Wes' very intimate scenes with Fred a couple of
weeks ago, and Wes is very much the satisfyingly dark version of the
character we saw in S3/4.
>I get it. There's no need to spell it out for me. Anvil's are dropping
>everywhere.
>
The themes were a bit unsubtle, but I'd rather have that than no
themes at all.
>Gunn's finally understanding Angel. Angel understood Gunn a long time ago. I
>get that. Why repeat it? Obviously for the *new* audience members.
>
Not following this. There was a big thing happened last week, and the
fall out is that the characters are a bit raw. I thought the scene
between Angel and Gunn was lovely - Angel was passing on things that
were fundamental to him, things he'd learned about doing unforgivable
things, and how you try to make that right.
It also showed real development for him compared to how he treated Wes
in Season 3.
>Wesley's drunk. He loved Fred. Why spell it out? For the WB suits of course.
>
Or because it makes for good drama. IMO. I don't see any real
difference between this and the ways Wes acted in S3/4 when faced with
anger, despair and personal tragedy.
>Harmony's now in the opening credits as a regular. Why? 'Cause they need
>another female of course.
>
I really don't like Harmony, except in very small doses. However it
really makes no difference to me if she's in the credits.
>Spike's Angel's sidekick and gets to show off his wane, shallow body whereas
>we don't get to see Angel's wonderful pecs, abs, or much of anything. Very
>disappointing. It's not why I watch the show called *Angel*. To see some old
>guy's (whose not the lead hero) skinny, small, concave chest.
>
Luckily I don't care if we see either of them disrobed! (You may be
just *slightly* obsessing here. <g>)
But this was a very Angel heavy episode, IMO. I'm really liking the
character this season, and we're getting a lot of glimpses into how he
thinks.
>At least this was better than Fain and Crafts's last script.
God yes. Orders of magnitude better than anything else they've ever
written for the show.
Iain
--
"Could you learn to read minds?
In the case of mine do you read in the dark?"
Jonathan Dupont
I reckon I'll go for
4.2
Like DZG did with Buffy "Empty Places", Craft & Fain really came through
with me for their final episode. A bit wordy at times, but overall, good
work.
"Linda" <lindaDE...@susieword.com> wrote in
news:il3gc.2381173$iA2.2...@news.easynews.com:
Perhaps - but it's good to see IMO that this season isn't afraid to go back
to near standalones after the events of 5x15-16. I wouldn't want it to turn
into all out arc.
> I get it. There's no need to spell it out for me. Anvil's are dropping
> everywhere.
:)
Maybe it was a little over obvious at times, but better that than no theme
at all (see "You're Welcome").
> Gunn's finally understanding Angel. Angel understood Gunn a long time
> ago. I get that. Why repeat it? Obviously for the *new* audience
> members.
Repeating it from when? We haven't seen that much non lawerly interaction
between the two characters this season, and moreover it ties Gunn into the
series' overarcing theme of redemption, which is always good.
And besides, I don't think you can blame everything on the desire for fresh
viewers. The exposition at the beginning, yes, maybe - but this was just a
nice character moment.
> Wesley's drunk. He loved Fred. Why spell it out? For the WB suits of
> course.
Because that's what you do in a story - to underline a point? <shrug>
I rather liked the dream sequence actually - it had a nice bittersweet
quality seeing Fred one last time.
> Harmony's now in the opening credits as a regular. Why? 'Cause they
> need another female of course.
Also as a gesture for MM's eight long years of ME service, I suspect.
> Spike's Angel's sidekick and gets to show off his wane, shallow body
> whereas we don't get to see Angel's wonderful pecs, abs, or much of
> anything. Very disappointing. It's not why I watch the show called
> *Angel*. To see some old guy's (whose not the lead hero) skinny,
> small, concave chest.
Well, I don't really watch it for either reason, so can't say it affects me
personally :)
> I was being generous. My spouse and son gave it 1.5 stars. Maybe it's
> because I haven't watched any TV shows but Poker for the last two
> months. And I guess that when the last episode of Angel airs, I won't
> be watching anything much on TV but what I rent from Netflix or
> Blockbuster.
>
> At least this was better than Fain and Crafts's last script.
Yeah - although to be fair, we've learnt pretty much over the years that
the team as a whole works out for the plot beats for any one particular
episode, and I struggle to see how anyone short of JW (and even then) could
have made a classic out of what they were handed for Harm's Way.
Jon
Jonathan Dupont
news:fu12809g2dkkb7dfs...@4ax.com:
Amusingly (to me, anyway) I seem to have written two posts which are pretty
much carbon copies of your last two - oh well, great minds and all that...
:)
>>At least this was better than Fain and Crafts's last script.
>
> God yes. Orders of magnitude better than anything else they've ever
> written for the show.
>
> Iain
The only thing I'd add is a little extra F&C defence - their work in S4
really wasn't that bad. Supersymmetry was okayish, and Shiny Happy People
only a little better (but then I didn't really like the whole tail end of
that season, with the exception of Home) but Soulless I felt was rather
good.
This season they simply haven't been given a chance - the premises of
Unleashed and Harm's Way were never going to turn out the best episodes,
which is regrettable, but not something they can be solely blamed for.
Jon
Iain Clark
<jonatha...@hotblahmail.com> wrote:
You can never have too many people talking sense, you know. :-)
>>>At least this was better than Fain and Crafts's last script.
>>
>> God yes. Orders of magnitude better than anything else they've ever
>> written for the show.
>The only thing I'd add is a little extra F&C defence - their work in S4
>really wasn't that bad. Supersymmetry was okayish, and Shiny Happy People
>only a little better (but then I didn't really like the whole tail end of
>that season, with the exception of Home) but Soulless I felt was rather
>good.
>
I'd forgotten they wrote Soulless. That was probably the best thing
they've done, then. And I quite enjoyed Supersymmetry, though like a
lot of their episodes it felt a bit uneven.
>This season they simply haven't been given a chance - the premises of
>Unleashed and Harm's Way were never going to turn out the best episodes,
>which is regrettable, but not something they can be solely blamed for.
In their defence I found the early parts of Unleashed to be tonally
quite gritty and realistic, and it was only the sudden lurch to a
different episode entirely in the second half that I disliked. They
do have a knack for quite dark material, and sharp dialogue, but often
blow it with broader cartoonish elements.
Harm's way - as you say, it was never going to turn out for the best.
Having said that, many people loved it, so I think my Harmontipathy
got in the way of my enjoyment. :-)
Iain
--
"Oh, go away. Repress someone else."
kim
[snipped]
>Harmony's now in the opening credits as a regular. Why? 'Cause they need
>another female of course.
Or they're about to kill her off as they did with Amber Benson in 'Seeing Red'
And no, I haven't seen or read anything about this elsewhere.
(kim)
Linda
"Iain Clark" <iain...@dragonhaven.plus.com> wrote in message
news:fu12809g2dkkb7dfs...@4ax.com...
Sorry it took me so long to reply.
> >An average to below average episode.
> >
> >2.0
> >
> >Illyria's on hold. Is she needed for the finale?
> >
>
> Dunno, but I found it quite refreshing to focus on slowly unraveling
> her psyche, in a personal debate with Wes. It's much more mature and
> believable than flinging her into the mix as some kind of
> crime-fighting Anya knock-off.
>
> It follows on from Wes' very intimate scenes with Fred a couple of
> weeks ago, and Wes is very much the satisfyingly dark version of the
> character we saw in S3/4.
It just seemed jarring to me. I couldn't connect it to the A plot. Usually
there's a way to do that and I don't think I'm that dumb to not be able to
do it.
>
> >I get it. There's no need to spell it out for me. Anvil's are dropping
> >everywhere.
> >
>
> The themes were a bit unsubtle, but I'd rather have that than no
> themes at all.
I like subtle.
>
> >Gunn's finally understanding Angel. Angel understood Gunn a long time
ago. I
> >get that. Why repeat it? Obviously for the *new* audience members.
> >
> Not following this. There was a big thing happened last week, and the
> fall out is that the characters are a bit raw. I thought the scene
> between Angel and Gunn was lovely - Angel was passing on things that
> were fundamental to him, things he'd learned about doing unforgivable
> things, and how you try to make that right.
Watch *The Price* again. Gunn and Angel seem to have this problem over and
over. What to you was lovely was to me repetitive.
>
> It also showed real development for him compared to how he treated Wes
> in Season 3.
How so? That affected him personally - it was his son. This affected Wes
personally because it was Fred and he had just started a relationship with
her. He attacked Gunn in the same fashion that Angel tried to kill Wes with
the pillow. To me it didn't show any development just replaced one cast
member for another.
>
> >Wesley's drunk. He loved Fred. Why spell it out? For the WB suits of
course.
> >
> Or because it makes for good drama. IMO. I don't see any real
> difference between this and the ways Wes acted in S3/4 when faced with
> anger, despair and personal tragedy.
But we've already seen that he's mourning Fred in the last two episodes.
Yes, we've asked to see the mourning (such as in Cordy's case) but this is
getting so repetitive.
>
> >Harmony's now in the opening credits as a regular. Why? 'Cause they need
> >another female of course.
> >
> I really don't like Harmony, except in very small doses. However it
> really makes no difference to me if she's in the credits.
Does to me.
>
> >Spike's Angel's sidekick and gets to show off his wane, shallow body
whereas
> >we don't get to see Angel's wonderful pecs, abs, or much of anything.
Very
> >disappointing. It's not why I watch the show called *Angel*. To see some
old
> >guy's (whose not the lead hero) skinny, small, concave chest.
> >
>
> Luckily I don't care if we see either of them disrobed! (You may be
> just *slightly* obsessing here. <g>)
I admit that I lust after DB (but I'm not a stalker- too far away).
>
> But this was a very Angel heavy episode, IMO. I'm really liking the
> character this season, and we're getting a lot of glimpses into how he
> thinks.
>
> >At least this was better than Fain and Crafts's last script.
>
> God yes. Orders of magnitude better than anything else they've ever
> written for the show.
Hey! We agree on something.
Linda
"Jonathan Dupont" <jonatha...@hotblahmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94CE81F22D18Ajo...@195.149.20.147...
I have my favorites of the standalones but I like arc too. This season has
managed to balance them.
>
> > I get it. There's no need to spell it out for me. Anvil's are dropping
> > everywhere.
>
> :)
>
> Maybe it was a little over obvious at times, but better that than no theme
> at all (see "You're Welcome").
YW had theme - Goodbye Cordy.
>
> > Gunn's finally understanding Angel. Angel understood Gunn a long time
> > ago. I get that. Why repeat it? Obviously for the *new* audience
> > members.
>
> Repeating it from when? We haven't seen that much non lawerly interaction
> between the two characters this season, and moreover it ties Gunn into the
> series' overarcing theme of redemption, which is always good.
>
> And besides, I don't think you can blame everything on the desire for
fresh
> viewers. The exposition at the beginning, yes, maybe - but this was just a
> nice character moment.
Watch *The Price* again. It's being repetitive. And the only reason I can
think of (and maybe I just don't get it as I'm not a college graduate) is
for the newbies.
>
> > Wesley's drunk. He loved Fred. Why spell it out? For the WB suits of
> > course.
>
> Because that's what you do in a story - to underline a point? <shrug>
>
> I rather liked the dream sequence actually - it had a nice bittersweet
> quality seeing Fred one last time.
But Wesley's been mourning Fred for the last two episodes. I get it. It was
anvils dropping.
>
> > Harmony's now in the opening credits as a regular. Why? 'Cause they
> > need another female of course.
>
> Also as a gesture for MM's eight long years of ME service, I suspect.
Sorry, I don't care for Harmony and I certainly don't want to see her in
every last episode. They replaced Cordy with a Cordy wannabe and it upsets
me.
>
> > Spike's Angel's sidekick and gets to show off his wane, shallow body
> > whereas we don't get to see Angel's wonderful pecs, abs, or much of
> > anything. Very disappointing. It's not why I watch the show called
> > *Angel*. To see some old guy's (whose not the lead hero) skinny,
> > small, concave chest.
>
> Well, I don't really watch it for either reason, so can't say it affects
me
> personally :)
You might not, but you could!
>
> > I was being generous. My spouse and son gave it 1.5 stars. Maybe it's
> > because I haven't watched any TV shows but Poker for the last two
> > months. And I guess that when the last episode of Angel airs, I won't
> > be watching anything much on TV but what I rent from Netflix or
> > Blockbuster.
> >
> > At least this was better than Fain and Crafts's last script.
>
> Yeah - although to be fair, we've learnt pretty much over the years that
> the team as a whole works out for the plot beats for any one particular
> episode, and I struggle to see how anyone short of JW (and even then)
could
> have made a classic out of what they were handed for Harm's Way.
Well, maybe you noticed that I gave *Harm's Way* a 1/2 star.
Tafka
Nah; AB was entered into the credits purely for "Seeing Red" to make her
death more striking given her 'belated' entry into full-Scoobyness (from a
show perspective).
Lorne joined the credits after, IIRC, the midseason hiatus last season (or
was it S3? I forget) so there is a precedent for alteration of the credits
mid-season.
Given that the Angel S5 credits have also changed to include a lot of new
footage it makes sense for Harmony to be put in given she's expected to be
around till the end more or less (I believe she was only signed up for
like 7 from 14 to start with or something similar).
-Tafka-
This place was so much friendlier when the mob ran it.
Jonathan Dupont
news:Afkhc.13531784$Id.22...@news.easynews.com:
Yeah - its been good.
>>
>> > I get it. There's no need to spell it out for me. Anvil's are
>> > dropping everywhere.
>>
>> :)
>>
>> Maybe it was a little over obvious at times, but better that than no
>> theme at all (see "You're Welcome").
>
> YW had theme - Goodbye Cordy.
I would argue that that's more plot.
>> > Gunn's finally understanding Angel. Angel understood Gunn a long
>> > time ago. I get that. Why repeat it? Obviously for the *new*
>> > audience members.
>>
>> Repeating it from when? We haven't seen that much non lawerly
>> interaction between the two characters this season, and moreover it
>> ties Gunn into the series' overarcing theme of redemption, which is
>> always good.
>>
>> And besides, I don't think you can blame everything on the desire for
> fresh
>> viewers. The exposition at the beginning, yes, maybe - but this was
>> just a nice character moment.
>
> Watch *The Price* again. It's being repetitive. And the only reason I
> can think of (and maybe I just don't get it as I'm not a college
> graduate) is for the newbies.
Haven't got time for that just now so I'll have to take your word for
it, but if its only repeated a character moment after near two seasons I
don't think that's so bad - Buffy S6 did it near every episode with the
B/S stuff...
>> > Wesley's drunk. He loved Fred. Why spell it out? For the WB suits
>> > of course.
>>
>> Because that's what you do in a story - to underline a point? <shrug>
>>
>> I rather liked the dream sequence actually - it had a nice
>> bittersweet quality seeing Fred one last time.
>
> But Wesley's been mourning Fred for the last two episodes. I get it.
> It was anvils dropping.
I'm not sure he has, really. 5x15 he was still struggling to save her,
and 5x16 he was too much in shock and busy trying to stop Illyria.
>> > Harmony's now in the opening credits as a regular. Why? 'Cause they
>> > need another female of course.
>>
>> Also as a gesture for MM's eight long years of ME service, I suspect.
>
> Sorry, I don't care for Harmony and I certainly don't want to see her
> in every last episode. They replaced Cordy with a Cordy wannabe and it
> upsets me.
I guess she was probably going to be in the last few anyway, and seeing
as the show's ending they decided she might as well be there anyway/
>> > I was being generous. My spouse and son gave it 1.5 stars. Maybe
>> > it's because I haven't watched any TV shows but Poker for the last
>> > two months. And I guess that when the last episode of Angel airs, I
>> > won't be watching anything much on TV but what I rent from Netflix
>> > or Blockbuster.
>> >
>> > At least this was better than Fain and Crafts's last script.
>>
>> Yeah - although to be fair, we've learnt pretty much over the years
>> that the team as a whole works out for the plot beats for any one
>> particular episode, and I struggle to see how anyone short of JW (and
>> even then)
> could
>> have made a classic out of what they were handed for Harm's Way.
>
> Well, maybe you noticed that I gave *Harm's Way* a 1/2 star.
Yeah, but you also gave Smile Time 0, which IMHO was a classic, so... :)
Jon
Linda
> footage it makes sense for Harmony to be put in given she's expected to be
> around till the end more or less (I believe she was only signed up for
> like 7 from 14 to start with or something similar).
17 episodes total. I don't remember how many she's been in so far.
--
Best regards,
Linda
Nadia
> And we're bbbbbbbbbbbbback!
>
> And yay!
>
> Please vote here for the umta/abe five-star poll for Angel S5:
>
Wahhh! Hardly any left - and I've just seen 5x18. Wahh! Anyway, I'm still
liking it a lot. So it's a 4.2.
Nadia