We're baaaaaaaaaaaaaack!
Andrew Cameron
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An enjoyable Angel season premiere - not a shock, I know. I kinda see where
they're going now, and I kinda like it. I appreciated that most of the
questions I had during the episode were dealt with later on by characters
asking them too. I'm a little wary about Harmony and how she's gone from
"mwahaha, I am a vampire now, I need to keep in with my kind" or whatever it
was she said in "Disharmony" back to "hey guys!" - I think we just have to
forget about that particular S2 ep. On the other hand, I'm even less sure
about Spike. In fact, the great mystical come-back was rather lame. Meh.
Shotgun death was the most violence-heavy death I think we've seen on the
show (in fact, isn't this the first death by a gun at all?) and me liked.
I was most amused by "You have reached ritual sacrifice! For goats, press 1
or say, 'goats'!" and "I don't have a problem with spanking men". Go Joss!
In the grand scheme of premieres, I'll place it at spot 2, just below "Deep
Down".
--
Andrew Cameron
"Got my hand on my heart, I know no better location..."
Saskia
> Angel 5x01 spoilers...
WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh god I have *missed* this *so* *much*!!!!!!! I am completely happy today
:-)))))
Not really anything interesting to add I think, but I thought I'd join in
the "Yay new episode" thread :-)
Yup. Same here. Still leaves us with a lot of wait-and-see's but sofar so
good, nothing seems right and that's exactly the way it should be.
> I'm a little wary about Harmony and how she's gone from
> "mwahaha, I am a vampire now, I need to keep in with my kind" or whatever it
> was she said in "Disharmony" back to "hey guys!"
I loved her in this ep, I really did.
> On the other hand, I'm even less sure about Spike.
Same here. Although the team could use someone for me to really like, me
not being too big a fan of Gunn and Fred, and with Cordy in a coma.
> In fact, the great mystical come-back was rather lame. Meh.
Yeah. Oh well.
> I was most amused by "You have reached ritual sacrifice! For goats, press 1
> or say, 'goats'!" and "I don't have a problem with spanking men". Go Joss!
ROTFL yes! I was cracking up. And the "to sacrifice a loved one or pet,
press #"
Two other familiar faces: Fred's guy (forgot his name) is the funny vamp
in "Conversations with Dead People", and Eve is Dana Pool from Boston
Public. She grew up!
Think I liked what they did to Gunn. At least now he's got a purpose,
something to do! *loved* that elevator-muzak in the waiting room :-)
And about time we had ourselves a Joss-eppy too! \o/
--
Saskia
I haven't been the same since that house fell on my sister.
Jonathan Dupont
news:bks9q9$52l06$1...@ID-90381.news.uni-berlin.de:
> Angel 5x01 spoilers...
And Buffy 7x22 too
I really wasn't sure what to do about this one - went looking for early
West Wing release, found two Angel episode instead which was cool, but
it was hardly exactly finished. It was completely watchable and all, and
from a learning point of view the soundtrack was quite interesting, but
still...
> An enjoyable Angel season premiere - not a shock, I know.
It was okay. Funny at points, but not exactly too clever and all a
little obvious. It didn't quite have a special feel to it.
> I kinda see
> where they're going now, and I kinda like it.
I'm not so sure - not every client is going to be able to have a special
condition like that so Angel can't go after them, surely?
> I appreciated that most
> of the questions I had during the episode were dealt with later on by
> characters asking them too.
I thought a lot of the writing was incredibly lazy, to be honest. Joss
used a lot of stuff that was self referentially bad (Fred's exposition
sentence, Eve, and then Eve and her lurking, and so on) and it was just
a bit too much for me. I didn't believe Fred's pysch out, either.
(And as for her Dixie Chicks poster - subtle political statement there
Joss, really...)
> I'm a little wary about Harmony and how
> she's gone from "mwahaha, I am a vampire now, I need to keep in with
> my kind" or whatever it was she said in "Disharmony" back to "hey
> guys!" - I think we just have to forget about that particular S2 ep.
Harmony's fun, but although I smiled at it both times, it's really going
to get old if they keep having her undercut act breaks (especially as
it's essentially the Lilah thing from Home all over again).
> On the other hand, I'm even less sure about Spike. In fact, the great
> mystical come-back was rather lame. Meh.
I don't know. I'll give it until the end of next week to pass judgement,
as it was more of a cliffhanger tag than anything else. Big questions -
was that the amulet from last season he came out of, and if so, how on
earth did whoever it was get it back?
I'm not completely content with the fact that it looks like Spike is
coming straight from his death scene so to speak, and won't have had
some time in between to reflect. Now that really, really undermines
Chosen for me.
> Shotgun death was the most
> violence-heavy death I think we've seen on the show (in fact, isn't
> this the first death by a gun at all?) and me liked.
True. Fight scene was quite weird in its unfinished edit state - I
presume they're going to make the wire work less obvious?
> I was most amused by "You have reached ritual sacrifice! For goats,
> press 1 or say, 'goats'!" and "I don't have a problem with spanking
> men".
Indeed :)
> Go Joss! In the grand scheme of premieres, I'll place it at spot
> 2, just below "Deep Down".
Hmmm... City Of, I saw the other day and really liked. Heartthrob is
vaguely cool and Deep Down rocks. Can't really remember Judgement that
well, but it did have Faith in it...
I don't know. Near the bottom, anyway. Had nothing as good or intriguing
as the first and last scenes in Lessons, for example.
Now to debate whether to stay up for 4x02, or wait for the morning...
Jon
Dan Milburn
It was fun. Really not sure how they can keep this going, though. This
episode didn't so much set up what the season was about as *do* pretty
much everything I can think of they can do with the set-up from 'Home',
so what happens next? And please not too much more of the sciency
stuff, however likeable Knox is.
> I appreciated that most of the
> questions I had during the episode were dealt with later on by characters
> asking them too.
In a painfully obvious way, especially in fitting in the stuff about
Cordy and Connor. One hopes that isn't the last we've heard of those two.
> I'm a little wary about Harmony and how she's gone from
> "mwahaha, I am a vampire now, I need to keep in with my kind" or whatever it
> was she said in "Disharmony" back to "hey guys!" - I think we just have to
> forget about that particular S2 ep.
It's totally in keeping with her character, though, and I still found
her funny.
> On the other hand, I'm even less sure
> about Spike. In fact, the great mystical come-back was rather lame. Meh.
Wasn't really expecting anything better.
> Shotgun death was the most violence-heavy death I think we've seen on the
> show (in fact, isn't this the first death by a gun at all?) and me liked.
>
> I was most amused by "You have reached ritual sacrifice! For goats, press 1
> or say, 'goats'!"
It was funny, but it stole *two* jokes from previous episodes. :)
> and "I don't have a problem with spanking men". Go Joss!
Now that was a good line.
> In the grand scheme of premieres, I'll place it at spot 2, just below "Deep
> Down".
Hmm. I find it hard to judge from just this episode, but I'd put all of
them except maybe 'Deep Down' above it at the moment.
Dan
Andrew Cameron
news:3our3709pg0x.1...@40tude.net...
> Andrew Cameron zei:
>
> > Angel 5x01 spoilers...
>
> WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hee!
> Oh god I have *missed* this *so* *much*!!!!!!! I am completely happy today
> :-)))))
A week in advance, too. However, I do feel rather naughty doing this
without Mattia... :o(
Well, I like a certain amount of comfort - the gang being relatively "happy"
in the W&H offices makes it not be *too* gritty. Buffy worked because it
had the Scooby friendship thing going on - perhaps this accounts for my
extreme discomfort at the end of "Dirty Girls" - there was absolutely no
comfort level - the group were falling apart, there was pretty much no
brightness anywhere and Xander got mutilated. Umm... does anyone know what
I'm talking about? :)
> > I'm a little wary about Harmony and how she's gone from
> > "mwahaha, I am a vampire now, I need to keep in with my kind" or
whatever it
> > was she said in "Disharmony" back to "hey guys!"
>
> I loved her in this ep, I really did.
I wouldn't say "loved". Snickered a bit, maybe. Her appearance right at
the end of the ep was just too much, IMO.
> > On the other hand, I'm even less sure about Spike.
>
> Same here. Although the team could use someone for me to really like, me
> not being too big a fan of Gunn and Fred, and with Cordy in a coma.
They seem to be going down the jealous!Wes (woo! I get to do the
<description>!<character> thing again!) route again. Fairy nuff.
> > I was most amused by "You have reached ritual sacrifice! For goats,
press 1
> > or say, 'goats'!" and "I don't have a problem with spanking men". Go
Joss!
>
> ROTFL yes! I was cracking up. And the "to sacrifice a loved one or pet,
> press #"
Yup!
> Two other familiar faces: Fred's guy (forgot his name) is the funny vamp
> in "Conversations with Dead People", and Eve is Dana Pool from Boston
> Public. She grew up!
Joss loves Jonathan Woodward (that's his name, innit?). He also guest
starred in the Firefly ep "The Message". However, he's eternally the goofy,
likeable geek - typecast into 3 identical roles by the same person... :-/
Also, I never saw any Boston Public.
> Think I liked what they did to Gunn. At least now he's got a purpose,
> something to do! *loved* that elevator-muzak in the waiting room :-)
>
> And about time we had ourselves a Joss-eppy too! \o/
Well, it was about time we had ourselves an ME-eppy! \o/
Andrew Cameron
news:Xns9400D71735C21jo...@140.99.99.130...
It had a weird feel to it for me since I didn't really know where they were
going - "Deep Down" felt a bit special cos it was all resolve-y.
> > I kinda see
> > where they're going now, and I kinda like it.
>
> I'm not so sure - not every client is going to be able to have a special
> condition like that so Angel can't go after them, surely?
Hmmm, this is a good point - instead of MotW will we now have CotW?
> > I appreciated that most
> > of the questions I had during the episode were dealt with later on by
> > characters asking them too.
>
> I thought a lot of the writing was incredibly lazy, to be honest. Joss
> used a lot of stuff that was self referentially bad (Fred's exposition
> sentence, Eve, and then Eve and her lurking, and so on) and it was just
> a bit too much for me.
There was some very contrived dialogue, but mostly it got stuff done. The
clunky-sounding bits were, I suspect, the shortest way to recap/answer
questions. The kind of things just isn't like Joss, and I doubt he'd
approve it if it wasn't required.
> > On the other hand, I'm even less sure about Spike. In fact, the great
> > mystical come-back was rather lame. Meh.
>
> I don't know. I'll give it until the end of next week to pass judgement,
> as it was more of a cliffhanger tag than anything else. Big questions -
> was that the amulet from last season he came out of, and if so, how on
> earth did whoever it was get it back?
It's obviously the same amulet, but I have no idea who could have posted it
back. Perhaps the big bad?
> I'm not completely content with the fact that it looks like Spike is
> coming straight from his death scene so to speak, and won't have had
> some time in between to reflect. Now that really, really undermines
> Chosen for me.
This was a main thought of mine - Spike got as much of a hero's exit as
possible, and this just kind of messes it up.
> > Shotgun death was the most
> > violence-heavy death I think we've seen on the show (in fact, isn't
> > this the first death by a gun at all?) and me liked.
>
> True. Fight scene was quite weird in its unfinished edit state - I
> presume they're going to make the wire work less obvious?
I assume so. Also looked like there were too many "gaps" that Angel could
have been shot - I suspect they'll be edited to make the whole thing a bit
smoother. I will say that some of the stunts were rather cool.
> I don't know. Near the bottom, anyway. Had nothing as good or intriguing
> as the first and last scenes in Lessons, for example.
Which turned out to be a let-down. "Is that the First?" "No!" "Oh wait,
yeah it is". Bah.
Andrew Cameron
news:a3ncb.4418$PJ4.39...@news-text.cableinet.net...
Already addressed both of those points in other replies... :)
> > I appreciated that most of the
> > questions I had during the episode were dealt with later on by
characters
> > asking them too.
>
> In a painfully obvious way, especially in fitting in the stuff about
> Cordy and Connor. One hopes that isn't the last we've heard of those two.
Addressed this elsewhere, too, although I'd be quite happy for the whole
'verse to forget about them since it'll be a messy clean-up job, but the
Connor thing could have been passed over had it not been a hint of some
future involvement.
> > I'm a little wary about Harmony and how she's gone from
> > "mwahaha, I am a vampire now, I need to keep in with my kind" or
whatever it
> > was she said in "Disharmony" back to "hey guys!" - I think we just have
to
> > forget about that particular S2 ep.
>
> It's totally in keeping with her character, though, and I still found
> her funny.
Yeah, but the gang let her off a bit quickly for my tastes. Not that they
exactly like her, but it's annoying in a "why didn't Buffy kill Spike after
5x04 instead of Spike just dreaming about it" way.
> > Shotgun death was the most violence-heavy death I think we've seen on
the
> > show (in fact, isn't this the first death by a gun at all?) and me
liked.
> >
> > I was most amused by "You have reached ritual sacrifice! For goats,
press 1
> > or say, 'goats'!"
>
> It was funny, but it stole *two* jokes from previous episodes. :)
Two jokes? The "goats, many" thing... what's the other?
> > and "I don't have a problem with spanking men". Go Joss!
>
> Now that was a good line.
I cringed a bit, then gave a smile on behalf of the slash fans who hadn't
watched it yet.
> > In the grand scheme of premieres, I'll place it at spot 2, just below
"Deep
> > Down".
>
> Hmm. I find it hard to judge from just this episode, but I'd put all of
> them except maybe 'Deep Down' above it at the moment.
Seriously? I thought we all considered SDK a saviour for fixing Greenwalt's
mess. Perhaps I'd put "City Of" above this, but not by much - it's an
encouraging start.
Dan Milburn
>>>forget about that particular S2 ep.
>>
>>It's totally in keeping with her character, though, and I still found
>>her funny.
>
>
> Yeah, but the gang let her off a bit quickly for my tastes. Not that they
> exactly like her, but it's annoying in a "why didn't Buffy kill Spike after
> 5x04 instead of Spike just dreaming about it" way.
Well, yeah, although Harmony will always be less of a threat than even
chipped Spike. ;) Plus it gave Angel the "I didn't think you'd go evil
*this* quickly" (or similar, I forget exactly what he said..) line to Wes.
>>>Shotgun death was the most violence-heavy death I think we've seen on
>
> the
>
>>>show (in fact, isn't this the first death by a gun at all?) and me
>
> liked.
>
>>>I was most amused by "You have reached ritual sacrifice! For goats,
>
> press 1
>
>>>or say, 'goats'!"
>>
>>It was funny, but it stole *two* jokes from previous episodes. :)
>
>
> Two jokes? The "goats, many" thing... what's the other?
In 'Quickening', they had the guy on the phone and "Or to speak to or
worship Master Tarfall, Underlord of pain, press three." Very similar.
>>>and "I don't have a problem with spanking men". Go Joss!
>>
>>Now that was a good line.
>
>
> I cringed a bit, then gave a smile on behalf of the slash fans who hadn't
> watched it yet.
Well, quite.
>>>In the grand scheme of premieres, I'll place it at spot 2, just below
>
> "Deep
>
>>>Down".
>>
>>Hmm. I find it hard to judge from just this episode, but I'd put all of
>>them except maybe 'Deep Down' above it at the moment.
>
>
> Seriously? I thought we all considered SDK a saviour for fixing Greenwalt's
> mess. Perhaps I'd put "City Of" above this, but not by much - it's an
> encouraging start.
'Deep Down' was certainly an improvement on the end of S3, but I have
issues with it, especially Angels speech at the end. And I've long
thought both 'Judgement' and 'Heartthrob' were underrated.
Dan
Dave Emberton
news:Xns9400D71735C21jo...@140.99.99.130...
Yes I enjoyed it. I was very worried about this series I have to say, but
that's put my mind more or less at ease.
> > I'm a little wary about Harmony and how
> > she's gone from "mwahaha, I am a vampire now, I need to keep in with
> > my kind" or whatever it was she said in "Disharmony" back to "hey
> > guys!" - I think we just have to forget about that particular S2 ep.
>
> Harmony's fun, but although I smiled at it both times, it's really going
> to get old if they keep having her undercut act breaks (especially as
> it's essentially the Lilah thing from Home all over again).
>
> > On the other hand, I'm even less sure about Spike. In fact, the great
> > mystical come-back was rather lame. Meh.
That's my biggest worry really. Both Harmony and particularly Spike are in
there in a fan pleasing way, and I'm not sure either will really fit. I'm
also not so sure about Eve, found her a bit irritating to be honest, and
then there's Cordy in a convenient "keeping a return open" coma. Funnest
Coma ever? Well second funnest maybe.
> I don't know. I'll give it until the end of next week to pass judgement,
> as it was more of a cliffhanger tag than anything else. Big questions -
> was that the amulet from last season he came out of, and if so, how on
> earth did whoever it was get it back?
>
> I'm not completely content with the fact that it looks like Spike is
> coming straight from his death scene so to speak, and won't have had
> some time in between to reflect. Now that really, really undermines
> Chosen for me.
No I liked that. I was worried he'd be plucked from the afterlife as some
sort of emmisary of the powers/senior partners or some such nonsense,
whereas continuing the story straight after it left of was pretty clever I
thought (although I was disapointed he didn't say "Oh bloody hell" ;-) ).
But yes who mailed the amulet, given that it must have been buried somewhere
under Sunnydale's remains? Maybe agents of W&H have been searching the ruins
for it?
Also Spike being there kind of draws Buffy into the story, and you can bet
there'll be a crossover sooner or later (does it still count as a crossover
when the other show's finished?), and I hate crossovers. More fan pleasing.
I quite like what they did with Gunn as well. Is Gunn really really going to
become useful at last?
Dave
Andrew Cameron
news:5o74nv8saohtsme72...@4ax.com...
and
> for a Joss ep that's a surprise.
I thought "Lessons" was terribly contrived and didn't excite me other than
"ooh! New season!" (and yes, that's a surprise for a Joss ep, and he was
busy on Firefly at that point too, IIRC). I don't think "Lessons" can even
compare to *this* episode.
> >I'm a little wary about Harmony and how she's gone from
> >"mwahaha, I am a vampire now, I need to keep in with my kind" or whatever
it
> >was she said in "Disharmony" back to "hey guys!" - I think we just have
to
> >forget about that particular S2 ep.
>
> I'm less worried about that - the whole point of Disharmony was that she
was
> unreliable and flighty - and more feeling that she's going to grate.
Though
> having her pop up at the very end was classic.
I thought she was getting annoying by that point, TBH.
> If there are S2 problems - what about the "you can't choke a vampire"
scene
> contradicting Becoming 2? :)
I'm trying very hard and I can't remember a vampire being choked anywhere in
"Becoming" - care to remind me? :o)
> >On the other hand, I'm even less sure
> >about Spike. In fact, the great mystical come-back was rather lame. Meh.
>
> Are those the final FX shots for that do you think?
Yes, I do (the shot of Spike at the end was used in a high quality promo,
hence that scene's effects must have been properly finished for them to use
that clip), but that's not what I was complaining about. The *method* is
rather lame - I know there are only a few options when bringing a character
back but "for no reason through a mystical artefact at the end of episode
one of the season" is pretty bad. I could almost thole Angel's return in
Buffy S3 through the ring, but surely Joss could have thought of *something*
a bit better? Maybe keep Spike's return back an episode, just have the
amulet discovered, Angel knows what it is, they transcribe some writing on
it and some W&H lackey reads it aloud without knowing what it does and
brings Spike back? Even that would be less of a problem to me than what we
got. Am I alone?
> >Shotgun death was the most violence-heavy death I think we've seen on the
> >show (in fact, isn't this the first death by a gun at all?) and me liked.
>
> I like the rawness of it - but it was robbed of some of its power by the
> unfinished quality of the fight that preceded it. I assume that the sound
and
> editting need work there.
Yeah, and the fighting needed more smoothness by taking out extraneous
frames of Angel *preparing* to hit someone, leaving more of him actually
hitting the person. As it is (and as I addressed in another post) it seems
like he should have been shot a few times from all the hanging about he was
doing.
> >I was most amused by "You have reached ritual sacrifice! For goats, press
1
> >or say, 'goats'!" and "I don't have a problem with spanking men". Go
Joss!
>
> There were plenty of good Joss lines actually. When Hauser called Angel a
> little fairy and he responded with "I'm not little". When he told Eve
"you're
> not attractive when I'm angry". When Gunn says - "Feng Shui which means?"
and
> Wes replies "...which means people will believe anything."
Those were all great lines, but I don't think DB carried off the line you
mentioned very well. Tiny nit-pick, I know, but it doesn't make the
dialogue as good as it could be - it was almost like he was building up to
it and then fluffed it.
> >In the grand scheme of premieres, I'll place it at spot 2, just below
"Deep
> >Down".
>
> Not sure where I'd put it - definitely Deep Down was more satisfying - not
> sure if I'd put this above or below City of and I've got a soft spot for
> Heartthrob.
I suspect that it's #2 in my premiere list because of the whole "oooh,
shiny" aspect of it.
> As I said before, it suffers from Lessons-syndrome - a lesser Joss
episode.
> Joss is so good at the raw mechanics, the technical details (he was a
script
> doctor after all) that he can make a mediocre episode enjoyable and almost
> hide the fact that it's not that great.
As I said further up, I don't think he did that very well with "Lessons".
> (Incidentally I took a lot of flak for saying Lessons was good but not
great
> when it first aired, so it's possible that it's a problem *I* have with
> episodes that don't do much more than set-up)
You're not the only one, but I don't think it's much to do with them only
being set-up episodes, and more to do with the season "warming up".
> It's also fascinating to see an episode in this state. There was some
dialogue
> that needed to be dubbed, the music felt like temp music for editting
only -
> did you notice there were no songs. The credits were last years - though I
> assume the red-line through that was to indicate that that was to be
replaced.
> There was another shot with the red line - which was the virus under the
> microscope - which I presume was a stock shot.
Indeed. I assumed that the red line meant "replace this with something
similar but better". They've only got a week! :)
Andrew Cameron
> >starred in the Firefly ep "The Message". However, he's eternally the
goofy,
> >likeable geek - typecast into 3 identical roles by the same person...
:-/
> >
>
>
> Webs was a very different character to the guy on The Message. It was also
his
> better performance. The Message guy was more of a Billy Fordham type -
though
> they didn't quite pull it off at that level.
>
> As for Knox - too early to tell. He's mostly a foil for Fred, a straight
guy -
> calm, collected and likeable - to contrast her quirky, passionate nature.
Maybe it's just the actor, but something about the characters he plays
always has a trace of likeable goof in there. Webs (I assume you're right
on the name - I can't remember it) was more suave than the others, but I
still think they all came from the same cookie cutter - just different,
erm... chocolate chips (analogy... breaking... call... for... help...). Or
perhaps the guy is good at saying Joss and Tim's dialogue. We haven't seen
him in non-Whedon-or-Minear ep yet, remember (even on Buffy and Firefly).
Other writers might not get him "down" so perfectly.
Andrew Cameron
they
> > exactly like her, but it's annoying in a "why didn't Buffy kill Spike
after
> > 5x04 instead of Spike just dreaming about it" way.
>
> Well, yeah, although Harmony will always be less of a threat than even
> chipped Spike. ;) Plus it gave Angel the "I didn't think you'd go evil
> *this* quickly" (or similar, I forget exactly what he said..) line to Wes.
She was enough of a threat to make an episode about in S2, though. However,
that was a very good line. Not worth suffering an annoying character for a
whole season for if that's how she turns out to be, though. :o)
> In 'Quickening', they had the guy on the phone and "Or to speak to or
> worship Master Tarfall, Underlord of pain, press three." Very similar.
Ah, of course. I've forgotten most of S3. On purpose. ;)
> > Seriously? I thought we all considered SDK a saviour for fixing
Greenwalt's
> > mess. Perhaps I'd put "City Of" above this, but not by much - it's an
> > encouraging start.
>
> 'Deep Down' was certainly an improvement on the end of S3, but I have
> issues with it, especially Angels speech at the end. And I've long
> thought both 'Judgement' and 'Heartthrob' were underrated.
I don't think Angel's speech at the end of "Deep Down" ruins an otherwise
fantastic episode. Dark!Wes was just brilliant and "I'll take away your
bucket" will forever be remembered by me as one of the best lines.
"Heartthrob" is of the good (in fact I loved most of the first half of S3),
but "Judgement" is, IMO, a sub-par episode, also hurt by the fact that it's
followed by AYNOHYEB. Whatcha gonna do, eh?
Shuggie
>> If there are S2 problems - what about the "you can't choke a vampire"
>scene
>> contradicting Becoming 2? :)
>
>I'm trying very hard and I can't remember a vampire being choked anywhere in
>"Becoming" - care to remind me? :o)
>
Spike chokes Dru in order to drag her off. To be honest it was inconsistent back
then which is why I put a smiley there.
>> >On the other hand, I'm even less sure
>> >about Spike. In fact, the great mystical come-back was rather lame. Meh.
>>
>> Are those the final FX shots for that do you think?
>
>Yes, I do (the shot of Spike at the end was used in a high quality promo,
>hence that scene's effects must have been properly finished for them to use
>that clip), but that's not what I was complaining about. The *method* is
>rather lame - I know there are only a few options when bringing a character
>back but "for no reason through a mystical artefact at the end of episode
>one of the season" is pretty bad. I could almost thole Angel's return in
>Buffy S3 through the ring, but surely Joss could have thought of *something*
>a bit better? Maybe keep Spike's return back an episode, just have the
>amulet discovered, Angel knows what it is, they transcribe some writing on
>it and some W&H lackey reads it aloud without knowing what it does and
>brings Spike back? Even that would be less of a problem to me than what we
>got. Am I alone?
>
I just assumed that there was more to tell on that - why he's been brought back,
how and by whom. We've seen the act but not the explanation behind it. I'm
waiting for the later before I call lame.
<snip>
>Those were all great lines, but I don't think DB carried off the line you
>mentioned very well. Tiny nit-pick, I know, but it doesn't make the
>dialogue as good as it could be - it was almost like he was building up to
>it and then fluffed it.
Well my expectations for DB's abilities are usually set fairly low. Although I
thought he pulled off the look of surprise at the end of the teaser very well.
>
>> >In the grand scheme of premieres, I'll place it at spot 2, just below
>"Deep
>> >Down".
>>
>> Not sure where I'd put it - definitely Deep Down was more satisfying - not
>> sure if I'd put this above or below City of and I've got a soft spot for
>> Heartthrob.
>
>I suspect that it's #2 in my premiere list because of the whole "oooh,
>shiny" aspect of it.
>
How do you mean 'ooh, shiny' - do you mean the new sets, new direction? That was
cool but the switch to the Hyperion was shinier in S2.
I think I'd need to watch it again to rank it properly and yet it's not the kind
of episode that I'm wanting to rewatch. That's partly what I meant by Lessons
syndrome. Enjoyable but afterwards you're left with a feeling like it wasn't
very substantial.
<snip>
>> (Incidentally I took a lot of flak for saying Lessons was good but not
>great
>> when it first aired, so it's possible that it's a problem *I* have with
>> episodes that don't do much more than set-up)
>
>You're not the only one, but I don't think it's much to do with them only
>being set-up episodes, and more to do with the season "warming up".
Am I the only one who thinks that the season shouldn't need time to warm up?
Set-up yes. Exposition of new stuff yes. But it should still be able to
entertain right away. Watch Serenity or WTTH or City Of again - they all acheive
both.
Andrew Cameron
news:bkue2...@drn.newsguy.com...
Ah. Yeah, I'd count that as a vampiric inconsistency back then, too. Why
do I seem to remember him knocking her out?
> I just assumed that there was more to tell on that - why he's been brought
back,
> how and by whom. We've seen the act but not the explanation behind it. I'm
> waiting for the later before I call lame.
I call a definite "predictable" with a side order of "lame". I'll remove
the "lame" if it turns out to have a fantastic explanation.
> Well my expectations for DB's abilities are usually set fairly low.
Although I
> thought he pulled off the look of surprise at the end of the teaser very
well.
That was ever so slightly goofy, and he does goofy Angel very well. Too
well. :o)
> >I suspect that it's #2 in my premiere list because of the whole "oooh,
> >shiny" aspect of it.
>
> How do you mean 'ooh, shiny' - do you mean the new sets, new direction?
That was
> cool but the switch to the Hyperion was shinier in S2.
Sorry, I should have been clearer - "oooh, shiny" in this context means
"first two eps of season 5, a week early".
> >You're not the only one, but I don't think it's much to do with them only
> >being set-up episodes, and more to do with the season "warming up".
>
> Am I the only one who thinks that the season shouldn't need time to warm
up?
> Set-up yes. Exposition of new stuff yes. But it should still be able to
> entertain right away. Watch Serenity or WTTH or City Of again - they all
acheive
> both.
I don't think it's fair to include Serenity in comparison with... well, any
televisual work of the past... ever.