OT: Firefly 5-Star Poll: "The Message"
Andrew Poulter
episode "The Message".
I'm sure you know what to do, by now.
Vote in this thread, to register your opinion of the episode, giving it
a score between 0-5. With 0 being worst, and 5 being best.
I'll watch (thanks to the magic of Tivo) tonight; but I'm expecting good
things from a Tim/Joss collaboration.
--
AJP
Iain Clark
A "disappointing but still yummy firefly goodness" from me.
Which translates as a 4.0 :-)
Iain
--
XANDER: Am I right, Giles?
GILES: I'm almost certain you're not, but to be fair, I wasn't listening.
Jonathan Dupont
$k0epc$1...@ID-98124.news.uni-berlin.de:
Hmmm...
4.15
with actual explanation below the
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I think this is the first ME episode I've actually watched on television
first since early season 3 Angel. It's a ... slightly weird experience,
but kinda fun too. Probably helped that it was a Joss/Tim thing.
Anyone want to make a guess at who wrote what? I was laughing all the
way through the teaser, so I'm guessing that it was Joss. Let's just put
it this way, when I saw who the writers were (I didn't actually realise
this before) I wasn't at all surprised. Unfortunately I don't think as a
whole this quite lived up to its writers.
This episode desperately wanted to be "Lie to Me", but y'know, it really
wasn't. It just tried slightly too hard. There are moments when it was
very, very good, and then there are bits where it just falls down. I
found parts of it - especially the first reading of the too oft repeated
message way over directed, with too many angles - and DEAR LORD, shaky
cam is NOT big and its NOT clever. Quite why Tim and Joss are so
addicted to it is beyond me. I mean it was never quite as bad as a 24
*establishing shot* I saw the other day, where the camera man was
obviously pretending to be drunk, but still...
Talking of 24, wasn't evil police guy in the first season as Kim's
friend's father, or something? His Reservoir Dogs Lite torture scene
with Mal's friend was okay I guess and he was a well written character,
but I needed slightly more of him to make him memorable. Solid work.
I was hovering on giving this thing a 4.2 right up until the very end,
and then the last scene killed it for me. They desperately overplayed
the sad music and emotion of the kid dying - I can't remember a funeral
scene quite like it in the whole of the Buffyverse. We needed something
more dry and "all the bad guys wear black hats" ish, rather than this,
which just ended up undercutting.
On a final more positive note, they spent an awful lot on this, didn't
they? I kept on thinking we must have seen the end of the Serenity chase
FX shots, but they just kept on coming. Pretty well done too - they
worked more for me than anything in the whole of Star Wars Ep 1 or 2.
(Let alone Star Trek battles, which I probably shouldn't get started
on).
One more to go and then it's all over bar possible movies.
Jon
Nadia
Oh a Tim and Joss episode now that I can't see? Well that's definetely
another 0 from me! Worst season ever!!!!!
Nadia (assuming you're not actually using these marks :))
William George Ferguson
<AJP_Ju...@btinternet.com> wrote:
4.1
All Firefly is good, but some are better than others.
I liked the opening bit (you've got a one of a kind artifact that is
famous galaxy wide, that was just very publicly stolen; guess what, none
of your fences want to touch it). Other pieces were okay, Kaylee going
romantic, Simon going technical accuracy. But overall, it just didn't
find that perfect chord, and make it go twang, the way the very best
Firefly does.
That leaves Heart of Gold and Objects in Space, right?
--
"Oh Buffy, you really do need to have
every square inch of your ass kicked."
- Willow Rosenberg
Keith Gow
lyrical:
I hope they aren't being used, they'd be skewing the results markedly!
-- Keith Gow --
Iain Clark
Aren't commercial breaks annoying, though? :-)
>Anyone want to make a guess at who wrote what? I was laughing all the
>way through the teaser, so I'm guessing that it was Joss.
That was my thought, although we're probably pigeon-holing Joss as
"the funny one". Wash was hilarious throughout the episode, and the
scene in the teaser with the cow embyro was superb.
> Let's just put
>it this way, when I saw who the writers were (I didn't actually realise
>this before) I wasn't at all surprised. Unfortunately I don't think as a
>whole this quite lived up to its writers.
>
I agree - at first I was hard pressed to see how such a great pair of
writers could have come up with an episode this generic, The Train Job
being a special case.
Then as the episode took shape I began to understand the substance of
the story a bit more, and I could see what they were trying to
achieve. It did improve markedly, especially that conversation on the
catwalk near the end about what they'd achieved since the war.
But overall it didn't quite hit the target. Both Tim and Joss
individually have done better Firefly episodes.
>This episode desperately wanted to be "Lie to Me", but y'know, it really
>wasn't. It just tried slightly too hard.
That never occurred to me, but I see your point.
> There are moments when it was
>very, very good,
Loved the war flashback, for example. Nice to see Zoe getting a bit
more to do, even if they could have got inside her head a bit more.
I also continue to love the characterisation of Mal - honourable, even
sentimental about his comrades (no matter how undeserving), but also
dangerous when pushed.
>alls down. I
>found parts of it - especially the first reading of the too oft repeated
>message way over directed, with too many angles
I agree that the message was too often repeated. It just didn't feel
as moving as the episode seemed to think.
> - and DEAR LORD, shaky
>cam is NOT big and its NOT clever. Quite why Tim and Joss are so
>addicted to it is beyond me. I mean it was never quite as bad as a 24
>*establishing shot* I saw the other day, where the camera man was
>obviously pretending to be drunk, but still...
>
Generally on Firefly it's not overtly shaky in the way that 24 can be
- just a slightly documentary style to the whole thing. I like it,
and I don't find it intrusive, or even noticeable most of the time.
>Talking of 24, wasn't evil police guy in the first season as Kim's
>friend's father, or something? His Reservoir Dogs Lite torture scene
>with Mal's friend was okay I guess and he was a well written character,
>but I needed slightly more of him to make him memorable. Solid work.
>
Yes, he was decent enough.
>I was hovering on giving this thing a 4.2 right up until the very end,
>and then the last scene killed it for me.
I don't think the ending sank the episode, but it was certainly
symptomatic of the way it didn't quite nail the emotions and themes.
> They desperately overplayed
>the sad music and emotion of the kid dying - I can't remember a funeral
>scene quite like it in the whole of the Buffyverse. We needed something
>more dry and "all the bad guys wear black hats" ish, rather than this,
>which just ended up undercutting.
>
The reprise of the message at the end did at least add another layer
of meaning, but the same thing was done far more powerfully on Angel's
"Hero".
>On a final more positive note, they spent an awful lot on this, didn't
>they? I kept on thinking we must have seen the end of the Serenity chase
>FX shots, but they just kept on coming. Pretty well done too - they
>worked more for me than anything in the whole of Star Wars Ep 1 or 2.
>(Let alone Star Trek battles, which I probably shouldn't get started
>on).
>
Yes, very nice FX.
Mind you, a couple of the snow planet scenes were probably more
obviously effect-like than anything we've seen so far. The sheer
number of shots lets them off the hook.
Iain
--
"Now, unlock his cell, unstrap him,
and bring him to the telephone immediately."
David Meadows
> Another World Premier last night; this time of a Tim & Joss penned
> episode "The Message".
> I'm sure you know what to do, by now.
3
Some very nice scenes at the start, but I didn't really warm to the main
plot. Nothing specific to complain about, I think I've just become too
used to excellence from this show.
--
David
Jonathan Dupont
news:953eivo4f0ml50033...@4ax.com:
I have a Tivo, so it shouldn't be a problem, but I couldn't resist from
starting watching it at 9:00, so...
(More seriously, the fact that Scifi puts the ad breaks in the right
place makes me very happy. I do think it makes a big difference).
>
>>Anyone want to make a guess at who wrote what? I was laughing all the
>>way through the teaser, so I'm guessing that it was Joss.
>
> That was my thought, although we're probably pigeon-holing Joss as
> "the funny one". Wash was hilarious throughout the episode, and the
> scene in the teaser with the cow embyro was superb.
Has Tim ever done the big funny? He probably has, but my mind's gone
blank.
>> There are moments when it was
>>very, very good,
>
> Loved the war flashback, for example. Nice to see Zoe getting a bit
> more to do, even if they could have got inside her head a bit more.
>
> I also continue to love the characterisation of Mal - honourable, even
> sentimental about his comrades (no matter how undeserving), but also
> dangerous when pushed.
Indeed. He's a very interestingly textured character - even though
there's still an awful lot of backstory about him we don't know. His
faith, how he got drafted into the army in the first place, and so on.
>> - and DEAR LORD, shaky
>>cam is NOT big and its NOT clever. Quite why Tim and Joss are so
>>addicted to it is beyond me. I mean it was never quite as bad as a 24
>>*establishing shot* I saw the other day, where the camera man was
>>obviously pretending to be drunk, but still...
>>
>
> Generally on Firefly it's not overtly shaky in the way that 24 can be
> - just a slightly documentary style to the whole thing. I like it,
> and I don't find it intrusive, or even noticeable most of the time.
It just makes everything look more cheap to me.
On Pure 24 the other day they had an interview with a director who was
talking about how on their show they try to keep everything POV - no
espsecially high or low shots. I'm still undecided whether I'm favour of
this or not. On the one side, it's true to the real time nature, but on
the other you're missing out on an awful lot of beautiful shots and
possible variety. I'm not sure if the conceit is worth the loss.
On Firefly, shaky cam works for me in the FX shots, because its new.
Everywhere else its just lazy.
>> They desperately overplayed
>>the sad music and emotion of the kid dying - I can't remember a
funeral
>>scene quite like it in the whole of the Buffyverse. We needed
something
>>more dry and "all the bad guys wear black hats" ish, rather than this,
>>which just ended up undercutting.
>>
>
> The reprise of the message at the end did at least add another layer
> of meaning, but the same thing was done far more powerfully on Angel's
> "Hero".
Especially of course as that was a complete reversal of meaning, sort
of.That was the sort of thing they needed here.
>>On a final more positive note, they spent an awful lot on this, didn't
>>they? I kept on thinking we must have seen the end of the Serenity
chase
>>FX shots, but they just kept on coming. Pretty well done too - they
>>worked more for me than anything in the whole of Star Wars Ep 1 or 2.
>>(Let alone Star Trek battles, which I probably shouldn't get started
>>on).
>>
> Yes, very nice FX.
>
> Mind you, a couple of the snow planet scenes were probably more
> obviously effect-like than anything we've seen so far. The sheer
> number of shots lets them off the hook.
>
> Iain
I wasn't quite convinced by the first shot of the extremely studio bound
last scene, but with the ambition of what they were trying to do I'm
prepared to let them off.
Jon
Andrew Poulter
It wasn't bad; but it wasn't stunning either; so 4.0.
--
AJP
Dan Milburn
>>>way through the teaser, so I'm guessing that it was Joss.
>>
>>That was my thought, although we're probably pigeon-holing Joss as
>>"the funny one". Wash was hilarious throughout the episode, and the
>>scene in the teaser with the cow embyro was superb.
>
>
> Has Tim ever done the big funny? He probably has, but my mind's gone
> blank.
That probably depends on what you find funny. He wrote 'Sense and
Sensitivity', co-wrote 'Couplet', and then there's the goats at the
beginning of 'Reprise'. :)
>>>There are moments when it was
>>>very, very good,
>>
>>Loved the war flashback, for example. Nice to see Zoe getting a bit
>>more to do, even if they could have got inside her head a bit more.
>>
>>I also continue to love the characterisation of Mal - honourable, even
>>sentimental about his comrades (no matter how undeserving), but also
>>dangerous when pushed.
>
>
> Indeed. He's a very interestingly textured character - even though
> there's still an awful lot of backstory about him we don't know. His
> faith, how he got drafted into the army in the first place, and so on.
Drafted? I've always had the sense that he joined the army because he
believed in what his side were fighting for.
>>>They desperately overplayed
>>>the sad music and emotion of the kid dying - I can't remember a
>
> funeral
>
>>>scene quite like it in the whole of the Buffyverse. We needed
>
> something
>
>>>more dry and "all the bad guys wear black hats" ish, rather than this,
>>>which just ended up undercutting.
>>>
>>
>>The reprise of the message at the end did at least add another layer
>>of meaning, but the same thing was done far more powerfully on Angel's
>>"Hero".
>
>
> Especially of course as that was a complete reversal of meaning, sort
> of.That was the sort of thing they needed here.
Agreed that the ending was weak. Really not sure what they were trying
to achieve.
Dan
Andrew Poulter
No, I've not been counting these; so you needn't worry... :-)
--
AJP
Linda
But I wasn't.
4.35
--
Best Regards,
Linda
I miss Kate Lockley.
Jonathan Dupont
$IA.69...@news-text.cableinet.net:
Goats are good, but the rest isn't really sticking with me.
>>>>There are moments when it was
>>>>very, very good,
>>>
>>>Loved the war flashback, for example. Nice to see Zoe getting a bit
>>>more to do, even if they could have got inside her head a bit more.
>>>
>>>I also continue to love the characterisation of Mal - honourable,
even
>>>sentimental about his comrades (no matter how undeserving), but also
>>>dangerous when pushed.
>>
>>
>> Indeed. He's a very interestingly textured character - even though
>> there's still an awful lot of backstory about him we don't know. His
>> faith, how he got drafted into the army in the first place, and so
on.
>
> Drafted? I've always had the sense that he joined the army because he
> believed in what his side were fighting for.
Uh yes, good point. Poor choice of words on my part.
>>>>They desperately overplayed
>>>>the sad music and emotion of the kid dying - I can't remember a
>>
>> funeral
>>
>>>>scene quite like it in the whole of the Buffyverse. We needed
>>
>> something
>>
>>>>more dry and "all the bad guys wear black hats" ish, rather than
this,
>>>>which just ended up undercutting.
>>>>
>>>
>>>The reprise of the message at the end did at least add another layer
>>>of meaning, but the same thing was done far more powerfully on
Angel's
>>>"Hero".
>>
>>
>> Especially of course as that was a complete reversal of meaning, sort
>> of.That was the sort of thing they needed here.
>
> Agreed that the ending was weak. Really not sure what they were
trying
> to achieve.
>
>
> Dan
It seemed like the sort of thing that was trying to say something, but
beyond tradegy and the general themes of the episode, it didn't really
work. I just didn't care enough in the end.
Jon