Goodbye Iowa [spoilers]
george van hal
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Ok, so that was "Goodbye Iowa"....
After all the horrible reports from America and the suckishness of the
season so far, we all weren't really holding our breaths in anticipation
for this ep. Last weeks pleasant surprise made me secretly hope for a
second ep to continue a new Roll [tm] and guess what? I got it!
We've ventured deep into the Initiative and Riley storylines in this
episode. After all the Initiative and Riley bashing that have been done
in this group (and admitedly I was perhaps the most extreme in my
judgements) there really wasn't any reason to like an Initiative ep
anymore. All my original protests against the Initiative and Riley still
hold for the period they were said in, but with "The I in team" last
week and this weeks "Goodbye Iowa" both the Initiative storyline and
Rileys character have become more and more interesting. Suffice it to
say I enjoyed myself.
Ok on to the ep itself:
This episode picked up where "The I in Team" left off. Which was weird.
Why was there no "previously on Buffy the vampire slayer" bit? Anyways
this ep deals mostly with Riley and his conflict of loyalty. Lets face
it, EBMOD [tm] was like a mother to him (in more than one way) and all
of a sudden she tries to kill your newfound girlfriend. You then walk
out on her, feeling somewhat annoyed (to use a mild understatement) and
confront your girlfriend who seems to hang around with the demons you're
hunting. When you tell the truth to a good friend whom you trust he
gives you his opinion which you don't like (to use another one of those
understatement thingies). Then you hear your "mother"'s been killed and
your friends blame your new girlfriend. And to top it all off you're
doing a cold turkey of which you're not aware. Basically the whole "get
me that straightjacket" packet. Its no wonder then that Rileys feeling a
bit messed up. At the end of the ep he's shipped off to a military
hospital, so we'll just have to wait and see which side he's gonna turn
to. I'm thinking it'll be Buffy's side (did you see the guy staring at
that handkerchief (sp?) ?) . Good thing is, I'm now *caring* about
Riley. He's gone from completly boring (up 'till The I in team) to
mildly interesting (The I in Team) to someone worth watching (Goodbye
Iowa). Now if they can keep this character interesting and not let him
slip back into his pre "The I in Team" state I promise I won't complain
about him as much.
Ok, on to Adam. We've seen a bit more about this guy. We now know that
he's the evil killer demon-human-machine hybrid with personal issues. We
also know he likes how small children look on the inside. Plus we know
he's incredibly strong. I'm putting my money on that he's gonna be
popping up a *lot* more in the eps to come. We allready know we hate him
(I mean, killing small children? Not a plus on the personality chart!).
Now we just have to find out if we'll be able to like to hate him (like
we did the master, spike & dru, angelus and even (some of us) the
mayor)....
Tara. Now I've said a *lot* of times allready I like Tara. She's a cool
chracter. She has chemistry with Willow. She rocks!
Only what was up with the putting the dust under the couch bit? *Please*
tell me she's not a demon (which seems to be the most logical
explanation). May I just say Ted and Kathy to explain my not wanting her
to be a demon drift....
Other explanations could be she just wasn't ready to do that spell
(which I would find extremely week). She could also be hiding a demon
(which doesn't necessarily make her evil). Hell, she could even have
sensed some demonnish vibes from Willow and was attempting to hide that
from her to not hurt her feelings. My point being: We just don't know.
Can't wait to find out though.....
Another thing I *really* liked in this ep was the fact that we saw the
scoobygang cooperating again as an unit. We saw Xander out partolling
with Buffy, Giles and Anya researching etc. All that was missing was a
library! The thing was, we has a CMP [tm] in this ep in the form of
Xanders basement. And *bang* all of a sudden the whole scoobygang is
flowing like it used to again. I liked that. I liked that a lot. I want
more of that. Of course next ep the need to hang out in Xanders basement
will have disapeared and the CMP will have vanished and the drifting
apart theme will probably pick up again. Doesn't mean I didn't love this
welcome break from that. I'm hoping things in season5 will be a lot more
like this. Give us a CMP [tm] again!!!
Furthermore we saw spike in this ep. We saw him getting his but kicked
by another demon. It seems it his turn of sides hasn't gone unnoticed in
the demon world. Wonder what, if any, repercutions that'll have in the
eps to come....
As for the Initiative itself, we still don't know where they stand atm.
Walsh and the leas scientist guy (his name escapes me atm) are both
dead, and because of that the Initiative seems to have lost their main
leaders. Now these people could, of course, allways be replaced from
Washington. Only question is how those replacements will see things. If
Riley leaves the Initiative (something I definatly see as a possibility)
Forest will probably take over for the time being and we've all seen his
views about the scoobygang, Buffy and outsiders in general in this ep.
So there's no way to be sure if the Initiative is gonna be an ally in
the fight against Adam, another enemy or if they might even ally
themselves with Adam. No way to be sure whatsoever.....
Anyways, all in all this was a very interesting and very good ep. I was,
again, pleasantly surprised. I'd say The Roll [tm] is continuing. Now
next week we're getting This Year's Girl, part one of a two parter (Who
are you? Being the second part) (that wasn't a spoiler, right? And even
if it was it was a spoiler I'm suspecting everyone knew allready). Now
these are eps I've been looking forward to for quite some time, so I'm
hoping the Roll [tm] will continue at least another two eps.
I'll be leaving you with my rating for "Goodbye Iowa": A whopping 8/10 !
See Ya,
George
Who's beginning to get more optimistic about Buffy's fourth season
again.....
Jonathan Black
> This episode picked up where "The I in Team" left off. Which
> was weird. Why was there no "previously on Buffy the vampire
> slayer" bit?
Because Net5 blatantly omitted it!!! Bastards!!!
--
J o N a T H a N
(Sorry, shouldn't even have been reading this post as I haven't
actually watched the ep yet [ducks])
george van hal
Jonathan Black wrote:
> george van hal wrote:
>
> > This episode picked up where "The I in Team" left off. Which
> > was weird. Why was there no "previously on Buffy the vampire
> > slayer" bit?
>
> Because Net5 blatantly omitted it!!! Bastards!!!
Well yes indeed. That completly sucked! I *love* the "previously on
Buffy the vampire slayer" bits. They allways get me in the right mood
and all.......
> J o N a T H a N
> (Sorry, shouldn't even have been reading this post as I haven't
> actually watched the ep yet [ducks])
Indeed! That would've been perfectly acceptable behavior from me, a self
confessed spoilet slut, but you as the leading 5x5 anit spoiler dude!
You should feel ashamed!
;-)
See Ya,
George
george van hal
Peter Kleiweg wrote:
> george van hal skriver...
> The episode I saw was bad.
The episode I saw was good. A definate step up from what season 4 offered us
so far. More drama. More depth to the character of Riley and an Initiative
storyline thats finally beginning to flow. Plus a scoobygang thats working
together again. Buffy season 4 is picking up. Its still not as good as seasons
past, but was better than Doomed or A new man.
> What are you on?
Oxygen. Aint it a bitch ;-)
> What I saw doesn't
> inspire me write any comments.
Well it did inspire me. Thankfully. No offense, but I'd really much rather be
me right now. I'd much rather like to enjoy an ep than not to enjoy an ep. Oh
and do you have any basis on which you base your negativity this time? If so,
we haven't heard it....
> Nikita was good, though. But is she really back?
Don't really watch Nikita, but I can hardly imagine it being better than
Buffy. Anyone here who watches both shows as well?
See Ya,
George
Ninia
Jonathan Black <jona...@ch.twi.tudelft.nl> schreef.
> george van hal wrote:
>
> > This episode picked up where "The I in Team" left off. Which
> > was weird. Why was there no "previously on Buffy the vampire
> > slayer" bit?
>
They also omitted the end music :-(. There will come a time they'll omit
the teaser. There will come a time they omit the whole ep.
What is the explanation of the title. Did mrs. Walsh come from Iowa?
ninia
Jonathan Black
> Jonathan Black schreef:
>
> > george van hal wrote:
> >
> > > This episode picked up where "The I in Team" left
> > > off. Which was weird. Why was there no "previously on Buffy
> > > the vampire slayer" bit?
> >
> > Because Net5 blatantly omitted it!!! Bastards!!!
>
> They also omitted the end music :-(.
Yes, equally unacceptable, of course, but I've kind of given up
mentioning that every time seeing as they've been doing it pretty
much ever since the beginning of their pathetic short life.
> There will come a time they'll omit the teaser.
My thoughts exactly. That's the next step. They'll think hey,
this is just the bit before the opening credits, how important
can it be? We'll skip this. And while we're at it, why include
the opening credits? Who wants to see those? We'll skip them too.
> There will come a time they omit the whole ep.
Not a bad idea. Let AVRO take over, I say.
> What is the explanation of the title. Did mrs. Walsh come
> from Iowa?
I don't know about her, but I think Riley comes from there.
BTW, cool to see you here, Ninia :))
--
J o N a T H a N
QuoteMeister[tm]
"Let me guess, you're from outer space."
"No, I'm from Iowa, I only work in outer space."
--Dr. Gillian Taylor / Captain James T. Kirk
Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home
Fuzzy
"george van hal" <hal0...@wxs.nl> wrote in message
news:39CE49FC...@wxs.nl...
Well, I never joined with the Riley-bashing, so I'm glad to say: "Hate to
say I told you so, but I told you so." :)
> Ok on to the ep itself:
> This episode picked up where "The I in Team" left off. Which was weird.
> Why was there no "previously on Buffy the vampire slayer" bit?
Yes!, I'm now missing the first few seconds of the ep on my video! Damn!
> Anyways
> this ep deals mostly with Riley and his conflict of loyalty. Lets face
> it, EBMOD [tm] was like a mother to him (in more than one way) and all
> of a sudden she tries to kill your newfound girlfriend. You then walk
> out on her, feeling somewhat annoyed (to use a mild understatement) and
> confront your girlfriend who seems to hang around with the demons
you're
> hunting. When you tell the truth to a good friend whom you trust he
> gives you his opinion which you don't like (to use another one of those
> understatement thingies). Then you hear your "mother"'s been killed and
> your friends blame your new girlfriend. And to top it all off you're
> doing a cold turkey of which you're not aware. Basically the whole "get
> me that straightjacket" packet. Its no wonder then that Rileys feeling
a
> bit messed up. At the end of the ep he's shipped off to a military
> hospital, so we'll just have to wait and see which side he's gonna turn
> to. I'm thinking it'll be Buffy's side (did you see the guy staring at
> that handkerchief (sp?) ?).
Yup. I'm guessing he's hooked. He'll still be loyal to the Initiative for
a time though, I think.
> Good thing is, I'm now *caring* about
> Riley. He's gone from completly boring (up 'till The I in team) to
> mildly interesting (The I in Team) to someone worth watching (Goodbye
> Iowa). Now if they can keep this character interesting and not let him
> slip back into his pre "The I in Team" state I promise I won't complain
> about him as much.
I'll hold you to that!
There's no doubt Riley as a character has grown in the last two ep's. I
don't the character can slip back to his old ways in any believable way.
I think Mark Blucas is to good an actor for that to happen.
I wonder what'll happen to Willy the Snitch now that Riley knows about
his place. Will tI come in and hold a razzia? A bit odd they didn't find
it before btw. Anyway, it was nice to see Willy again.
> Ok, on to Adam. We've seen a bit more about this guy. We now know that
> he's the evil killer demon-human-machine hybrid with personal issues.
We
> also know he likes how small children look on the inside. Plus we know
> he's incredibly strong. I'm putting my money on that he's gonna be
> popping up a *lot* more in the eps to come. We allready know we hate
him
> (I mean, killing small children? Not a plus on the personality chart!).
> Now we just have to find out if we'll be able to like to hate him (like
> we did the master, spike & dru, angelus and even (some of us) the
> mayor)....
Well, for now he's to flat a character for me to like. Not to strange,
since Adam himself is still searching for his own identity. I really hope
we'll see more of him interacting with other monsters and not only with
the scooby-gang and tI. After all, that way we can get to know him much
better than when he's beating up Buffy and tI.
> Tara. Now I've said a *lot* of times allready I like Tara. She's a cool
> chracter. She has chemistry with Willow. She rocks!
> Only what was up with the putting the dust under the couch bit?
*Please*
> tell me she's not a demon (which seems to be the most logical
> explanation). May I just say Ted and Kathy to explain my not wanting
her
> to be a demon drift....
> Other explanations could be she just wasn't ready to do that spell
> (which I would find extremely week).
It didn't even occur to me that she might be a demon! That would be *to*
lame. I assumed she was just afraid to do the spell, being insecure and
all.
Now you really got me worrying...
> She could also be hiding a demon
> (which doesn't necessarily make her evil). Hell, she could even have
> sensed some demonnish vibes from Willow and was attempting to hide that
> from her to not hurt her feelings. My point being: We just don't know.
> Can't wait to find out though.....
I'd really wish they'd give her some more screen-time, though. She always
appears in only one scene. How can we get to know her that way?
It seems that Willow and Tara only cast spells that night, though. Had
more happened, Willow surely wouldn't have said:
"I hope you don't think that I just come over for the spells
and everything. I mean, I really like just talking and hanging out
with you and stuff."
OTOH, it *does* show she really cares about Tara..
> Another thing I *really* liked in this ep was the fact that we saw the
> scoobygang cooperating again as an unit. We saw Xander out partolling
> with Buffy, Giles and Anya researching etc. All that was missing was a
> library! The thing was, we has a CMP [tm] in this ep in the form of
> Xanders basement. And *bang* all of a sudden the whole scoobygang is
> flowing like it used to again. I liked that. I liked that a lot. I want
> more of that. Of course next ep the need to hang out in Xanders
basement
> will have disapeared and the CMP will have vanished and the drifting
> apart theme will probably pick up again. Doesn't mean I didn't love
this
> welcome break from that. I'm hoping things in season5 will be a lot
more
> like this. Give us a CMP [tm] again!!!
I'm not so sure they don't need to hide anymore. There's no telling what
tI might do now that Riley's in the hospital.
I rather hope they'll keep Xander's basement as a CMP[tm]. So nice and
cozy! And this way we get much more bickering between Giles and Anya.
Nice...
> Furthermore we saw spike in this ep. We saw him getting his but kicked
> by another demon. It seems it his turn of sides hasn't gone unnoticed
in
> the demon world. Wonder what, if any, repercutions that'll have in the
> eps to come....
I really hope he'll pick of those demons one by one on his own and that
he doesn't come running to the gang screaming for help. I want Strong
Spike [tm] again!
> As for the Initiative itself, we still don't know where they stand atm.
> Walsh and the leas scientist guy (his name escapes me atm) are both
> dead, and because of that the Initiative seems to have lost their main
> leaders. Now these people could, of course, allways be replaced from
> Washington. Only question is how those replacements will see things. If
> Riley leaves the Initiative (something I definatly see as a
possibility)
> Forest will probably take over for the time being and we've all seen
his
> views about the scoobygang, Buffy and outsiders in general in this ep.
> So there's no way to be sure if the Initiative is gonna be an ally in
> the fight against Adam, another enemy or if they might even ally
> themselves with Adam. No way to be sure whatsoever.....
I thought they'd get some backup from HQ. I presume a new CO will be
installed. Perhaps a baddie who doesn't like Slayers? We could call him
Colonel Decker :)
> Anyways, all in all this was a very interesting and very good ep. I
was,
> again, pleasantly surprised. I'd say The Roll [tm] is continuing. Now
> next week we're getting This Year's Girl, part one of a two parter (Who
> are you? Being the second part) (that wasn't a spoiler, right?
Don't think so, no
> And even
> if it was it was a spoiler I'm suspecting everyone knew allready).
No I didn't! I'm not a spoiler-slut like you :)
> Now
> these are eps I've been looking forward to for quite some time, so I'm
> hoping the Roll [tm] will continue at least another two eps.
The next two were rumored to be quite good IIRC. But since the last two
were rumored to be bad, I'm not getting my hopes up.
> I'll be leaving you with my rating for "Goodbye Iowa": A whopping 8/10
!
I'll go for the 7.5 again. It was good, but I rerally hope they'll do
better yet.
Sierk
Ninia
Jonathan Black <jona...@ch.twi.tudelft.nl> schreef :
> BTW, cool to see you here, Ninia :))
Thanks Jonathan, despite my English summer course it is not so easy for me
to read en write in English. It takes a lot of time. I like the long
reviews of George and Patrick very much. I can imagine they don't want to
translate them in Dutch for nksf. I have been thinking of doing that
myself, especially for Saskia with her Dutch FreeSpeech programm. But I
don't know if that is an appropriate thing to do.
Anyway, I do my best to join in here.
ninia
Rob
> What is the explanation of the title. Did mrs. Walsh come from Iowa?
>
Explanation ? In the US someone can sometimes be called after the place he
or she is from. In this case Riley is Iowa. In the end he is shipped of
to a hospital, so goodbye Iowa.
Or more probable : Iowa is where Riley grew up and he still goes there to
have some peace and quiet (for instance during thanksgiving). So Iowa
represents everything that is good and stable in Riley's life. During
this ep he lost his mentor and boss (Walsh) and the believe that he is doing
good, being in the Initiative. Also he is feeling sick because basically
he is a junkie. And finally he is seperated from the girl he loves
(Buffy). He seems to have lost everything he believed in, so he has to say
goodbye to "Iowa".
In this context Iowa is not a state but a state of mind.
Bye, Rob
Rob
george van hal <hal0...@wxs.nl> schreef in berichtnieuws
39CE49FC...@wxs.nl...
I agree
>SNIP
> Ok on to the ep itself:
> This episode picked up where "The I in Team" left off. Which was weird.
> Why was there no "previously on Buffy the vampire slayer" bit? Anyways
> this ep deals mostly with Riley and his conflict of loyalty. Lets face
> it, EBMOD [tm] was like a mother to him (in more than one way) and all
> of a sudden she tries to kill your newfound girlfriend. You then walk
> out on her, feeling somewhat annoyed (to use a mild understatement) and
> confront your girlfriend who seems to hang around with the demons you're
> hunting. When you tell the truth to a good friend whom you trust he
> gives you his opinion which you don't like (to use another one of those
> understatement thingies). Then you hear your "mother"'s been killed and
> your friends blame your new girlfriend. And to top it all off you're
> doing a cold turkey of which you're not aware. Basically the whole "get
> me that straightjacket" packet. Its no wonder then that Rileys feeling a
> bit messed up. At the end of the ep he's shipped off to a military
> hospital, so we'll just have to wait and see which side he's gonna turn
> to. I'm thinking it'll be Buffy's side (did you see the guy staring at
> that handkerchief (sp?) ?) . Good thing is, I'm now *caring* about
What does (sp ?) mean ?
> Riley. He's gone from completly boring (up 'till The I in team) to
> mildly interesting (The I in Team) to someone worth watching (Goodbye
> Iowa). Now if they can keep this character interesting and not let him
> slip back into his pre "The I in Team" state I promise I won't complain
> about him as much.
Riley was probably that perfect and clean because of the drugs and his
training. He will be more interesting after he will be clean and away from
the Initiative. Which I guess is going to happen.
>
> Ok, on to Adam. We've seen a bit more about this guy. We now know that
> he's the evil killer demon-human-machine hybrid with personal issues. We
> also know he likes how small children look on the inside. Plus we know
> he's incredibly strong. I'm putting my money on that he's gonna be
> popping up a *lot* more in the eps to come. We allready know we hate him
> (I mean, killing small children? Not a plus on the personality chart!).
> Now we just have to find out if we'll be able to like to hate him (like
> we did the master, spike & dru, angelus and even (some of us) the
> mayor)....
>
I liked them all. Adam is different because he is alone and the others
were all leaders of other bad guys.
But maybe Adam will also get some help, who knows ?
> Tara. Now I've said a *lot* of times allready I like Tara. She's a cool
> chracter. She has chemistry with Willow. She rocks!
> Only what was up with the putting the dust under the couch bit? *Please*
> tell me she's not a demon (which seems to be the most logical
> explanation). May I just say Ted and Kathy to explain my not wanting her
> to be a demon drift....
> Other explanations could be she just wasn't ready to do that spell
> (which I would find extremely week). She could also be hiding a demon
> (which doesn't necessarily make her evil). Hell, she could even have
> sensed some demonnish vibes from Willow and was attempting to hide that
> from her to not hurt her feelings. My point being: We just don't know.
> Can't wait to find out though.....
>
>
Hmmm, I didn't think of that last possibility but I have to say that doesn't
seem very likely. But I could be wrong.
Another thing I *really* liked in this ep was the fact that we saw the
> scoobygang cooperating again as an unit. We saw Xander out partolling
> with Buffy, Giles and Anya researching etc. All that was missing was a
> library! The thing was, we has a CMP [tm] in this ep in the form of
> Xanders basement. And *bang* all of a sudden the whole scoobygang is
> flowing like it used to again. I liked that. I liked that a lot. I want
> more of that. Of course next ep the need to hang out in Xanders basement
> will have disapeared and the CMP will have vanished and the drifting
> apart theme will probably pick up again. Doesn't mean I didn't love this
> welcome break from that. I'm hoping things in season5 will be a lot more
> like this. Give us a CMP [tm] again!!!
>
You've hit the nail right on the head. I loved watching them work
together again like in the old days. When Buffy asked Xander along for the
infiltration I actually sighed with relieve. Finally does Xander get to
play along again.
Btw, nice joke when Buffy was scanned at the mirror. I can't remember the
exact lines, but it was a nice play on words.
I will know again after I have seen it a second time.
> Furthermore we saw spike in this ep. We saw him getting his but kicked
> by another demon. It seems it his turn of sides hasn't gone unnoticed in
> the demon world. Wonder what, if any, repercutions that'll have in the
> eps to come....
>
> As for the Initiative itself, we still don't know where they stand atm.
> Walsh and the leas scientist guy (his name escapes me atm) are both
> dead, and because of that the Initiative seems to have lost their main
> leaders. Now these people could, of course, allways be replaced from
> Washington. Only question is how those replacements will see things. If
> Riley leaves the Initiative (something I definatly see as a possibility)
> Forest will probably take over for the time being and we've all seen his
> views about the scoobygang, Buffy and outsiders in general in this ep.
> So there's no way to be sure if the Initiative is gonna be an ally in
> the fight against Adam, another enemy or if they might even ally
> themselves with Adam. No way to be sure whatsoever.....
>
I am guessing they will stand along the sideline for most eps and reappear
during the seasons finale, where the Initiative will be destroyed along with
Adam. ........Or maybe something competely different.
Bye, Rob
george van hal
Ninia wrote:
> Jonathan Black <jona...@ch.twi.tudelft.nl> schreef :
>
> > BTW, cool to see you here, Ninia :))
>
> Thanks Jonathan, despite my English summer course it is not so easy for me
> to read en write in English. It takes a lot of time.
Well thanks for taking the effort! I'm certainly a "the more the merier" type
guy. Anyways a big huge official "Welcome!!" from me :-)
> I like the long
> reviews of George and Patrick very much.
<elvis> thank you, thank you very much </elvis>
> I can imagine they don't want to
> translate them in Dutch for nksf.
Well indeed. Translating them is mostly not an option anyway. The english
language has a different feel to it and translating such a review into dutch
would make for a weird post imho. Plus I mostly like rambling in english more
than I like rambling in dutch (even though I make more grammar and spelling
mistakes in english. At least I think so. Guys?)..
> I have been thinking of doing that
> myself, especially for Saskia with her Dutch FreeSpeech programm.
Well, as you can read in nksf I've been thinking of just posting the original
message in nksf as well, because Saskia can't reply in this group with her RSI
thing. And we certainly don't want Saskia missing out on Buffy discussions.
The only thing is, I'm not sure I'm allowed to do that. Post my english review
in nksf. It also seems a bit pointless since Saskia can at least read it here
and then reply in dutch in ToG [tm] (aka nksf). Ultimatly just having two
threads, the one in nksf being somewhat more compact perhaps, seems the best
solution....
> But I
> don't know if that is an appropriate thing to do.
Well, I for one wouldn't really *mind* if you'd do that. I just don't know if
it would be the best way to go.....
> Anyway, I do my best to join in here.
And we're glad to have you!
See Ya,
George
george van hal
Rob wrote:
<snip spoiler>
Tut, tut! The spoiler space was snipped Rob, and this was obviously a spoiler! I
won't hold it against you this time (just so that people won't hold it against
me when I mess up in the future) but pay more attention next time :-)
See Ya,
George
Who agreed with what Rob had to say....
Mattia Valente
>
> Jonathan Black wrote:
>
> > george van hal wrote:
> >
> > > was weird. Why was there no "previously on Buffy the vampire
> > > slayer" bit?
> >
>
> Buffy the vampire slayer" bits. They allways get me in the right mood
> and all.......
Also, it's just plain weird..there's no reason to do it, and they've
never done it before, not even when they were airing eps every weekday,
at which point I can imagine where it wouldn't matter all too much
whether it was there or not, but please!
> > J o N a T H a N
> > (Sorry, shouldn't even have been reading this post as I haven't
> > actually watched the ep yet [ducks])
>
> Indeed! That would've been perfectly acceptable behavior from me, a self
> confessed spoilet slut, but you as the leading 5x5 anit spoiler dude!
> You should feel ashamed!
Well, he DID have to start the VCR recording at the correct time, to be
fair. Oh, wait, he read the post. Bad BAD Jonathan! Don't do it again!
:-p
Mattia
ReplyMeister[tm]
Hardness starts again tomorrow..2x5. Its actually a lot easier than I
thought, this waiting thing.
Mattia Valente
Good boy!
> After all the horrible reports from America and the suckishness of the
> season so far, we all weren't really holding our breaths in anticipation
> for this ep. Last weeks pleasant surprise made me secretly hope for a
> second ep to continue a new Roll [tm] and guess what? I got it!
Pretty much. Again, I expected big badness, which I didn't get. I know
this ep isn't a masterpiece by any standards, and it has a lot of things
that bother me, but bad it wasn't (no matter what Peter says. You're
diagreeing again, which is normal :-)
Maybe its becuase I was told that this ep is one of the worst (after
doomed) of the season and that things go uphill from here that I liked
it more.
> We've ventured deep into the Initiative and Riley storylines in this
> episode. After all the Initiative and Riley bashing that have been done
> in this group (and admitedly I was perhaps the most extreme in my
> judgements) there really wasn't any reason to like an Initiative ep
> anymore. All my original protests against the Initiative and Riley still
> hold for the period they were said in, but with "The I in team" last
> week and this weeks "Goodbye Iowa" both the Initiative storyline and
> Rileys character have become more and more interesting. Suffice it to
> say I enjoyed myself.
Right. I've tempered my opinion of the Initiative storyline. While still
a far cry from interesting on the whole, its not too bad after all. And
surprise! Marc Blucas can not only play basketball, he can act quite
well too! Its still a pathetic organization, and a bad season baddie,
but I too had fun.
> Ok on to the ep itself:
I was wondering i you'd ever get to that...
> This episode picked up where "The I in Team" left off. Which was weird.
> Why was there no "previously on Buffy the vampire slayer" bit? Anyways
The idiots cut it. See transcripts. Dunno why, though. Same reason they
cut the credits, maybe?
> this ep deals mostly with Riley and his conflict of loyalty. Lets face
> it, EBMOD [tm] was like a mother to him (in more than one way) and all
> of a sudden she tries to kill your newfound girlfriend. You then walk
> out on her, feeling somewhat annoyed (to use a mild understatement) and
> confront your girlfriend who seems to hang around with the demons you're
> hunting. When you tell the truth to a good friend whom you trust he
> gives you his opinion which you don't like (to use another one of those
> understatement thingies). Then you hear your "mother"'s been killed and
> your friends blame your new girlfriend. And to top it all off you're
> doing a cold turkey of which you're not aware. Basically the whole "get
> me that straightjacket" packet. Its no wonder then that Rileys feeling a
> bit messed up. At the end of the ep he's shipped off to a military
> hospital, so we'll just have to wait and see which side he's gonna turn
> to. I'm thinking it'll be Buffy's side (did you see the guy staring at
> that handkerchief (sp?) ?).
That pretty much sums it up (very mildly indeed, in most cases.) for
Riley. The mother thing with Walsh is still a little wierd for me. She
created him in a sense, messed with his mind and body, possibly to use
him as an ingredient for an Army of Adams eventually. Not quite a sane
mother figure, although we learned that she had a bit of a psychotic
obsession woth both Riley and Adam..interesting.
The drugged thing I quite honestly saw coming (the mechanical bird and
the vitamins last week kinda had me thinking along those lines. On the
one hand, its like, huh, cool, but on the other its a little annoying. I
get the feeling that the whole initiative bunch is 'breeding stock'.
Anglemann (I think its with an A after all, judging by how they
pronounce it.) was talking about him being too important to loose,
especially him. Super extra experimental drugs for Riley?
Riley's just been screwed up in a big way, just as Buffy said. His whole
frame of reference has been flushed down the toilet. Oh, and about which
side to choose, eventually probably Buffy, I would guess. Wonder what's
going to happen with the drug stuff. Detox? Not detox?
> Good thing is, I'm now *caring* about
> Riley. He's gone from completly boring (up 'till The I in team) to
> mildly interesting (The I in Team) to someone worth watching (Goodbye
> Iowa). Now if they can keep this character interesting and not let him
> slip back into his pre "The I in Team" state I promise I won't complain
> about him as much.
:-)
I'm actually starting to like Riley a little. He got interesting (he hit
people and went crazy 'n stuff..like most of the fun BtVS characters.
You know, Angelus, Faith, Spike, etc. etc. etc. ok, so I'm going off the
deep end here. Just a little far fethced, them comparisons.)
Riley is growing facets, and I'm guessing his normal joe boringness is
in part becasue Walsh programmed him that way. We shall see (I hope.
Never thought I'd say that. I wonder if Andrea still wants to kill him
in an as gruesome a way.) Unfortunately I see the possibility that he
may slip back to Boreley[tm]-ness again. I hope not.
> Ok, on to Adam. We've seen a bit more about this guy. We now know that
> he's the evil killer demon-human-machine hybrid with personal issues. We
> also know he likes how small children look on the inside. Plus we know
> he's incredibly strong. I'm putting my money on that he's gonna be
> popping up a *lot* more in the eps to come.
Right. He's a fricking Frankenstein, complete with existential issues
pertaining to the nature of being and of self. Oh, and he has a disk
drive too. And he knows stuff (like the plan Walsh had with Riley and
Adam and stuff. I actually wanted to know about that. Wonder if its any
good though..) I revieweing my opinion of tI storyline slightly. Its not
all terrible. And oh, Adam as season baddie, can you say "DUH"?
> We allready know we hate him
> (I mean, killing small children? Not a plus on the personality chart!).
> Now we just have to find out if we'll be able to like to hate him (like
> we did the master, spike & dru, angelus and even (some of us) the
> mayor)....
Well, I don't really hate him because of the small child thing. Its
Walsh's fault, the guy doesn't have morals, doesn't even know what they
are, he's doing things for the sake of experience, for the sake of
gathering knowledge, which is understandable. Kinda Borg-Like, only
intellectual instead of technological, in a way. It makes him all the
more dangerous though. I wonder what human guineapig served Walsh for
this extremely unethical experiment.
And anyway, the Mayor is great fun! How can you not like him? :-p
> Tara. Now I've said a *lot* of times allready I like Tara. She's a cool
> chracter. She has chemistry with Willow. She rocks!
Right. However, I thought the change was a little too big for one
episode, honestly. Suddly she could Articulate full sentences. A little
too fast. She's better this way (more talk) but the jump is too big,
especially since it's like, one day later. What happened that night??
> Only what was up with the putting the dust under the couch bit? *Please*
> tell me she's not a demon (which seems to be the most logical
> explanation). May I just say Ted and Kathy to explain my not wanting her
> to be a demon drift....
Yeah. I don't think she's a demon, somehow..but I'm getting suspicious
about it. She spirited away the dust in a very neat fashion and kept up
the faking pretty easily. I don't think Joss would do the "friend/roomie
turning into demon" ep twice in a season. I sure hope not, anyway.
> Other explanations could be she just wasn't ready to do that spell
> (which I would find extremely week).
Right, but that is indeed a weak excuse.
> She could also be hiding a demon
> (which doesn't necessarily make her evil). Hell, she could even have
> sensed some demonnish vibes from Willow and was attempting to hide that
> from her to not hurt her feelings. My point being: We just don't know.
> Can't wait to find out though.....
Right. But I'm not betting on a simple explanation. I'm hoping this is
one of them deep hint thingies that'll eventually be resolved (It's Joss
after all. 730 anyone?) That's my ideal, but when all's said and done, I
am very curious..
> Another thing I *really* liked in this ep was the fact that we saw the
> scoobygang cooperating again as an unit.
Well sort of. Unit-y yes, but like old times? No. Not even close yet.
Better, though.
> We saw Xander out partolling
> with Buffy, Giles and Anya researching etc. All that was missing was a
> library! The thing was, we has a CMP [tm] in this ep in the form of
> Xanders basement. And *bang* all of a sudden the whole scoobygang is
> flowing like it used to again. I liked that. I liked that a lot. I want
> more of that. Of course next ep the need to hang out in Xanders basement
> will have disapeared and the CMP will have vanished and the drifting
> apart theme will probably pick up again.
I didn't really see that much, the basement is too unstructured, results
weren't there, it was all a little jumbled for me (ok, so I was eating
dinner whilst watching, which doesn't help. Must rewatch. Tomorrow,
instead of Angel. Watched IGYUMS too recently, so no rewatch of that.)
and not cohesive enough. Some really funny bits there though, like Anya
and the whole "boring normal boyfirend" and "you can't have Xander"
theme..hilarious. The whole basement stuff was great.
> Doesn't mean I didn't love this
> welcome break from that. I'm hoping things in season5 will be a lot more
> like this. Give us a CMP [tm] again!!!
Yeah yeah, we know, we know. I agree, sort of, but giles' apartment is a
better CMP than Xander's basement, IMHO. Xander's basement has a weird
vibe to it..
> Furthermore we saw spike in this ep. We saw him getting his but kicked
> by another demon. It seems it his turn of sides hasn't gone unnoticed in
> the demon world. Wonder what, if any, repercutions that'll have in the
> eps to come....
Probably will. Its kinda sad, actually, like his character's become. I'm
guessing they'll use this as an excuse to bring Spike back into contact
with the Scoobies. Not sure I like that, actually.
Furthermore, Spike in the opening bit was great! His insight
(Riley=>Initiative) is on again (rest of the gang a little dimwitted, at
times. Slow, anyway.) and then the "No, I'm just a friend of
Xaannderr's. Pfftt. Bugger it. I'm your guy." line, and lets not forget
the thumbs up (After "If you're trying to kill her" line :-)
> As for the Initiative itself, we still don't know where they stand atm.
> Walsh and the leas scientist guy (his name escapes me atm) are both
> dead, and because of that the Initiative seems to have lost their main
> leaders. Now these people could, of course, allways be replaced from
> Washington. Only question is how those replacements will see things. If
> Riley leaves the Initiative (something I definatly see as a possibility)
Will they let him, though? He's in charge militarily, and I got the
feeling that Adam was Walsh's pet project, along with Angleman. I'm not
sure Washington can do anything, or will want to after the Adam fiasco.
I'd guess they'd want to shut down the operation and get rid of the
evidence.
> Forest will probably take over for the time being and we've all seen his
> views about the scoobygang, Buffy and outsiders in general in this ep.
I think Forrest can be brought around eventually. Remember he's all
conditioned, and he's bascially jealous of Buffy, more than anything
else, even though he hasn't admitted that little fact to himself yet.
> So there's no way to be sure if the Initiative is gonna be an ally in
> the fight against Adam, another enemy or if they might even ally
> themselves with Adam. No way to be sure whatsoever.....
I don't think they're gonna be able to team up with Adam, who doesn't
seem to give a hoot about the military or the Initiative. He's got his
'mothers' crazy streak (and then some) and he's on his frankenstien self
exploration trip. He already killed his makers though, so he got that
part outta the way.
> Anyways, all in all this was a very interesting and very good ep. I was,
> again, pleasantly surprised. I'd say The Roll [tm] is continuing. Now
Just a dip with Doomed.
> next week we're getting This Year's Girl, part one of a two parter (Who
> are you? Being the second part) (that wasn't a spoiler, right? And even
> if it was it was a spoiler I'm suspecting everyone knew allready).
Well, sort of a spoiler, just don't say what it's about and its ok :-)
> Now
> these are eps I've been looking forward to for quite some time, so I'm
> hoping the Roll [tm] will continue at least another two eps.
Supposedly these were the bad eps after which the good eps start.
Something like that. I hope so!
> I'll be leaving you with my rating for "Goodbye Iowa": A whopping 8/10 !
Wow! Again! I'm sticking to 7.5/10 again. I'm more reticent for some
reason, and as you know I hardly ever give high scores.
> Who's beginning to get more optimistic about Buffy's fourth season
> again.....
YAY!! See? Its still good after all. I'm perking up (from my already
perky self..) as well, to be honest.
Mattia
ReplyMeister[tm]
Jonathan Black
That was an interesting explanation of the `Goodbye Iowa' title,
Rob, and while we're on the subject, I'd like to step back to
last week's episode for a moment, because it may be just me, but
personally I don't have the first clue what that title was all
about. `The I in Team', anyone??
:)
--
J o N a T H a N
"Cordelia, man, she does love titles."
--Xander, `Invisible Girl'
Buffy the Vampire Slayer
george van hal
Rob wrote:
> >SNIP
>
> (did you see the guy staring at
> > that handkerchief (sp?) ?) . Good thing is, I'm now *caring* about
>
> What does (sp ?) mean ?
Spelling. As in: "did I spell the word handkerchief right". :-)
> > Riley. He's gone from completly boring (up 'till The I in team) to
> > mildly interesting (The I in Team) to someone worth watching (Goodbye
> > Iowa). Now if they can keep this character interesting and not let him
> > slip back into his pre "The I in Team" state I promise I won't complain
> > about him as much.
>
> Riley was probably that perfect and clean because of the drugs and his
> training.
Well, I just think it was his personality as well. Not really sure if those
drugs had those kinds of effects as well. I guess only time will tell......
> He will be more interesting after he will be clean and away from
> the Initiative. Which I guess is going to happen.
Yup....
> > Tara. Now I've said a *lot* of times allready I like Tara. She's a cool
> > chracter. She has chemistry with Willow. She rocks!
> > Only what was up with the putting the dust under the couch bit? *Please*
> > tell me she's not a demon (which seems to be the most logical
> > explanation). May I just say Ted and Kathy to explain my not wanting her
> > to be a demon drift....
> > Other explanations could be she just wasn't ready to do that spell
> > (which I would find extremely week). She could also be hiding a demon
> > (which doesn't necessarily make her evil). Hell, she could even have
> > sensed some demonnish vibes from Willow and was attempting to hide that
> > from her to not hurt her feelings. My point being: We just don't know.
> > Can't wait to find out though.....
> >
> >
> Hmmm, I didn't think of that last possibility but I have to say that doesn't
> seem very likely. But I could be wrong.
Don't think its very likely either. We'll just have to wait and see.....
> Another thing I *really* liked in this ep was the fact that we saw the
> > scoobygang cooperating again as an unit. We saw Xander out partolling
> > with Buffy, Giles and Anya researching etc. All that was missing was a
> > library! The thing was, we has a CMP [tm] in this ep in the form of
> > Xanders basement. And *bang* all of a sudden the whole scoobygang is
> > flowing like it used to again. I liked that. I liked that a lot. I want
> > more of that. Of course next ep the need to hang out in Xanders basement
> > will have disapeared and the CMP will have vanished and the drifting
> > apart theme will probably pick up again. Doesn't mean I didn't love this
> > welcome break from that. I'm hoping things in season5 will be a lot more
> > like this. Give us a CMP [tm] again!!!
>
> You've hit the nail right on the head. I loved watching them work
> together again like in the old days. When Buffy asked Xander along for the
> infiltration I actually sighed with relieve. Finally does Xander get to
> play along again.
Yup. It just felt so incredibly *right*. Also Xander had me cracking up again
this ep. Made some very funny situation comments. For once the humor was well
placed within the episode. Nothing to downplay the ep itself. That was a very
welcome change
> Btw, nice joke when Buffy was scanned at the mirror. I can't remember the
> exact lines, but it was a nice play on words.
> I will know again after I have seen it a second time.
It was a rectal/retinal joke. Liked that.....
> > As for the Initiative itself, we still don't know where they stand atm.
> > Walsh and the leas scientist guy (his name escapes me atm) are both
> > dead, and because of that the Initiative seems to have lost their main
> > leaders. Now these people could, of course, allways be replaced from
> > Washington. Only question is how those replacements will see things. If
> > Riley leaves the Initiative (something I definatly see as a possibility)
> > Forest will probably take over for the time being and we've all seen his
> > views about the scoobygang, Buffy and outsiders in general in this ep.
> > So there's no way to be sure if the Initiative is gonna be an ally in
> > the fight against Adam, another enemy or if they might even ally
> > themselves with Adam. No way to be sure whatsoever.....
> >
> I am guessing they will stand along the sideline for most eps and reappear
> during the seasons finale, where the Initiative will be destroyed along with
> Adam. ........Or maybe something competely different.
Yup. Well just have to wait and see. Again :-)
See Ya,
George
Arkasha
> Peter Kleiweg wrote:
> > george van hal skriver...
> > Nikita was good, though. But is she really back?
>
> Don't really watch Nikita, but I can hardly imagine it being better than
> Buffy. Anyone here who watches both shows as well?
>
I try to watch Nikita but i've missed quite a lot of ep, so i'm kinda lost
in terms of the overall storyline.
I mostly watch because i like the chemistry between Nikita and Michael. They
want to be together but they're not allowed to, which creates a beautiful
played out tension. Sort of like the tension between Buffy and Angel in the
end, but better IMO.
I missed the beginning of today's ep, so i didn't really get what it was
about. That scene with Michael and Nikita together in that electronic
tube-thing made it worth the watch though, if you know what i mean....
Just what i needed after a somewhat dull Buffy ep (of course IMO).
Arkasha
Arkasha
Sorry man, i'm leaning more toworst Peter here. I didn't like it.
> We've ventured deep into the Initiative and Riley storylines in this
> episode. After all the Initiative and Riley bashing that have been done
> in this group (and admitedly I was perhaps the most extreme in my
> judgements) there really wasn't any reason to like an Initiative ep
> anymore. All my original protests against the Initiative and Riley still
> hold for the period they were said in, but with "The I in team" last
> week and this weeks "Goodbye Iowa" both the Initiative storyline and
> Rileys character have become more and more interesting. Suffice it to
> say I enjoyed myself.
I'm glad you enjoyed it that much, but we really get to see that much about
tI that we didn't know before? Or about Riley for that matter? Oké, so they
drug their soldier boys. I could see that one coming, remember those
"vitamin" pills Riley had to take?
> Ok on to the ep itself:
> This episode picked up where "The I in Team" left off. Which was weird.
> Why was there no "previously on Buffy the vampire slayer" bit?
VERY annoying, it takes a couple of seconds for me to realize the ep has
already begun and then another couple of seconds for my vcr to act on my
RECORD command.
<snip all the reasons why Riley is "upset">
>At the end of the ep he's shipped off to a military
> hospital, so we'll just have to wait and see which side he's gonna turn
> to. I'm thinking it'll be Buffy's side (did you see the guy staring at
> that handkerchief (sp?) ?).
That was actually the only nice tough in the ep IMO.
>Good thing is, I'm now *caring* about
> Riley. He's gone from completely boring (up 'till The I in team) to
> mildly interesting (The I in Team) to someone worth watching (Goodbye
> Iowa).
Strangely, for me it's just the reverse (i've rewatching quite some S4 eps
lately). I found Riley interesting from the start (not a *whole* lot, but
still) and i liked him pretty soon.
But in this ep he just doesn't pull it of. Like you said he must me going
through a hell of a lot emotions, but to me he's not convincing enough to
feel those emotions with him. And all that's left is some guy who's sweating
a lot.
Now if they can keep this character interesting and not let him
> slip back into his pre "The I in Team" state I promise I won't complain
> about him as much.
Maybe i'll start to in your place
> Ok, on to Adam.
<snip description>
>We already know we hate him
Do we? We don't know that much about him yet. And it seems like he doesn't
either. He's just trying to figure out who he is. He probably has no
conception of what's right and wrong ( in the ordinary sense of the words).
Most of all he seems confused.
> Now we just have to find out if we'll be able to like to hate him (like
> we did the master, spike & dru, angelus and even (some of us) the
> mayor)....
we'll have to wait and see, but because of the thing i said about him
earlier i have my doubts. It's no fun if the bad guy isn't consciously evil.
> Tara. Now I've said a *lot* of times already I like Tara. She's a cool
> chracter. She has chemistry with Willow. She rocks!
> Only what was up with the putting the dust under the couch bit?
Indeed, i'm very confused again. First about Willow lying about her and then
Tara sabotaging the spell. Joss is really playing with us.
>*Please*
> tell me she's not a demon (which seems to be the most logical
> explanation).
I doubt that, in light of the things still to happen (vague enough?)
> Other explanations could be she just wasn't ready to do that spell
> (which I would find extremely week).
Well, she did express concerns about doing this kind of spell before. A
thing i didn't really understand, cos she's supposed to be a more powerful
witch/Wicca that Willow.
>She could also be hiding a demon
> (which doesn't necessarily make her evil).
What ? under the bed ?
> Hell, she could even have
> sensed some demonnish vibes from Willow and was attempting to hide that
> from her to not hurt her feelings.
I think Willow wanted to do the spell with all the right intensions.
>My point being: We just don't know.
Point taken.
> Can't wait to find out though.....
I'm really curious about her motives, i hope they will be explained some
time.
> Another thing I *really* liked in this ep was the fact that we saw the
> scoobygang cooperating again as an unit. We saw Xander out partolling
> with Buffy, Giles and Anya researching etc. All that was missing was a
> library! The thing was, we has a CMP [tm] in this ep in the form of
> Xanders basement. And *bang* all of a sudden the whole scoobygang is
> flowing like it used to again. I liked that. I liked that a lot. I want
> more of that. Of course next ep the need to hang out in Xanders basement
> will have disapeared and the CMP will have vanished and the drifting
> apart theme will probably pick up again. Doesn't mean I didn't love this
> welcome break from that. I'm hoping things in season5 will be a lot more
> like this. Give us a CMP [tm] again!!!
Agreed it was the closed we came to scoobygang action in a long time, but it
wasn't the same.
There wasn't any humor. Now this is not a must for a buffy ep, but if there
isn't humor, then give us drama. And there wasn't any real drama either IMO.
It was just..well..boring.
> Furthermore we saw spike in this ep. We saw him getting his but kicked
> by another demon. It seems it his turn of sides hasn't gone unnoticed in
> the demon world. Wonder what, if any, repercutions that'll have in the
> eps to come....
Concerning Spike, as i said i've been rewatching some S4 ep's like "the
initiative" and i noticed that when Spike fight his way out of tI
headquarters he hits quite a number of persons with feeling any pain
apperently. Strange..
Beside that it's always a pleasure to *watch* Spike.
> As for the Initiative itself, we still don't know where they stand atm.
> Walsh and the leas scientist guy (his name escapes me atm) are both
> dead, and because of that the Initiative seems to have lost their main
> leaders. Now these people could, of course, allways be replaced from
> Washington. Only question is how those replacements will see things. If
> Riley leaves the Initiative (something I definatly see as a possibility)
He's in their hand now. They could probably pump him full of drugs again and
then brainwash him. They seem to be very good at that.
<snip the rest>
> I'll be leaving you with my rating for "Goodbye Iowa": A whopping 8/10 !
I guess i just have to wait till i've rewatched it again, that always seems
to work with "bad"eps.
Arkasha
Fuzzy
Except for that speech that Buffy made in the basement (was anyone else
reminded of The Prom?) after which she made that remark about her
pyjama's. Could have done without that one.
> > Btw, nice joke when Buffy was scanned at the mirror. I can't
remember the
> > exact lines, but it was a nice play on words.
> > I will know again after I have seen it a second time.
>
> It was a rectal/retinal joke. Liked that.....
A good one. Xander really should have known better, though.
Sierk
Mattia Valente
Spoiler space
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> > > was weird. Why was there no "previously on Buffy the vampire
> > > slayer" bit?
> >
>
> the teaser. There will come a time they omit the whole ep.
Well, no news there. They never show the title sequence (or let us hear
the music, see the little mutant enemy monster, etc. etc.) Snipping the
teaser is evil, though. Skipping eps is cancellation, and I don't want
to go there :-))
> What is the explanation of the title. Did mrs. Walsh come from Iowa?
Riley did, he's a "corn fed Iowa boy", so I'm guessing it refers the
breaking down of Riley's world, everything going to hell; his world is
shot to pieces, his mother figure/mentor person is dead, he's cracking
up, all his reference points are leaving. Also, Riley (Iowa) moved away
from both the Initiative and Buffy in this ep, breaking free rom
everything. bit of a weird title. That's sort of my take on it all.
Mattia
ReplyMeister[tm]
Mattia Valente
>
> <snip Rob's interesting explanation of the `Goodbye Iowa' title>
>
> That was an interesting explanation of the `Goodbye Iowa' title,
> Rob, and while we're on the subject, I'd like to step back to
> last week's episode for a moment, because it may be just me, but
> personally I don't have the first clue what that title was all
> about. `The I in Team', anyone??
You're a weirdo. I kinda like Rob's explanation. It was more together
than mine anyway. Oh, and do you really want a disucussion about what ep
titles mean? I in Team is actually a pretty good one, although clear as
crystal, IMHO, not much explanation required there, or do you want one
anyway?
Mattia
ReplyMeister[tm]
Mattia Valente
> Ninia wrote:
> > Jonathan Black <jona...@ch.twi.tudelft.nl> schreef :
> >
> > > BTW, cool to see you here, Ninia :))
> >
> > Thanks Jonathan, despite my English summer course it is not so easy for me
> > to read en write in English. It takes a lot of time.
>
> Well thanks for taking the effort! I'm certainly a "the more the merier" type
> guy. Anyways a big huge official "Welcome!!" from me :-)
And me! Sorry, forgot that in the earlier post! Most welcome to our
humble group. Have you seen our website yet?
http://bite.to/abe
There, I did my duty ;-)
> > I like the long
> > reviews of George and Patrick very much.
>
> <elvis> thank you, thank you very much </elvis>
:-p
They are indeed good, and usually most complete. I don't even bother
doing it anymore. Last one I did was Wild at Heart, I think, which was
pretty good, but verry long and time consuming to write :)
> > I can imagine they don't want to
> > translate them in Dutch for nksf.
>
> Well indeed. Translating them is mostly not an option anyway. The english
> language has a different feel to it and translating such a review into dutch
> would make for a weird post imho. Plus I mostly like rambling in english more
> than I like rambling in dutch (even though I make more grammar and spelling
> mistakes in english. At least I think so. Guys?)..
Uh, yeah. George loves to do a little rambling here and there, in
between the coherent bits. Adds to the charm, I think, but doesn't make
for easy translating. Patrick tends to be a little easier to translate,
I think. It's partly the fact that his reveiws are sometimes a little
too perfect and not very conducive to big discussion; we agree too much
at times :-)
> > I have been thinking of doing that
> > myself, especially for Saskia with her Dutch FreeSpeech programm.
>
> Well, as you can read in nksf I've been thinking of just posting the original
> message in nksf as well, because Saskia can't reply in this group with her RSI
> thing. And we certainly don't want Saskia missing out on Buffy discussions.
True. She can read the reveiws over here, but not reply (unless its in
dutch, and NKSF is better for that, I think, although it's allowed here
with approriate tags.)
> The only thing is, I'm not sure I'm allowed to do that. Post my english review
> in nksf.
It's not.
> It also seems a bit pointless since Saskia can at least read it here
> and then reply in dutch in ToG [tm] (aka nksf). Ultimatly just having two
> threads, the one in nksf being somewhat more compact perhaps, seems the best
> solution....
Right. Or she can start her own and we can go from there! There is no
perfect solution to the problem (well, Saskia getting all better right
now, but that's easier said than done unfortunately.)
> > But I
> > don't know if that is an appropriate thing to do.
>
> Well, I for one wouldn't really *mind* if you'd do that. I just don't know if
> it would be the best way to go.....
Appriopriate isn't really the issue. More of a work load thing, I would
think.
> > Anyway, I do my best to join in here.
>
> And we're glad to have you!
Indeed! As George said, the more the merrier (and of course, also, the
more the...more. ;-)
Mattia
ReplyMeister[tm]
Jonathan Black
> Jonathan Black wrote:
> >
> > <snip Rob's interesting explanation of the `Goodbye Iowa' title>
> >
> > That was an interesting explanation of the `Goodbye Iowa'
> > title, Rob, and while we're on the subject, I'd like to step
> > back to last week's episode for a moment, because it may be
> > just me, but personally I don't have the first clue what that
> > title was all about. `The I in Team', anyone??
>
> You're a weirdo.
Huh? What have I done wrong?
> I kinda like Rob's explanation. It was more together than
> mine anyway.
I liked it too. Did I imply otherwise? I had already interpreted
it pretty much this way myself, I don't find this title
particularly difficult or cryptic, and I therefor agreed with
Rob's explo and took the chance to ask the questio about tIiT.
> Oh, and do you really want a disucussion about what ep titles
> mean?
Any reason I should be afraid of one?
> I in Team is actually a pretty good one, although clear as
> crystal, IMHO, not much explanation required there, or do you
> want one anyway?
[spoiler space for BtVS 4.13 `The I in Team']
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Yes. I'm serious, I really don't get "The I in Team". It means
nothing to me. The only thing I can come up is is that Buffy
becomes part of the "Team", meaning the Initiative, but it's
still far from crystal clear. What the heck is with "The I"? Is
it really just me? Is this some expression I haven't heard of?
Mattia Valente
> > week and this weeks "Goodbye Iowa" both the Initiative storyline and
> > Rileys character have become more and more interesting. Suffice it to
> > say I enjoyed myself.
>
> Well, I never joined with the Riley-bashing, so I'm glad to say: "Hate to
> say I told you so, but I told you so." :)
:-p
Ok then. He's gotten better, and I hope the change stays. 2 eps don't
make him a great character, though. Just a less not great one.
> > Ok on to the ep itself:
> > This episode picked up where "The I in Team" left off. Which was weird.
> > Why was there no "previously on Buffy the vampire slayer" bit?
>
> Yes!, I'm now missing the first few seconds of the ep on my video! Damn!
I guess you'll have to wait for either the boxed sets or the BBC airing
of the ep. Or just read the transcripts for now :-)
> > bit messed up. At the end of the ep he's shipped off to a military
> > hospital, so we'll just have to wait and see which side he's gonna turn
> > to. I'm thinking it'll be Buffy's side (did you see the guy staring at
> > that handkerchief (sp?) ?).
>
> Yup. I'm guessing he's hooked. He'll still be loyal to the Initiative for
> a time though, I think.
The question I'm asking myself is what's left of the Initiative after
all this? Anything much? Main researchers are dead, their creation
flipped and went on a rampage...not good. We shall see. Breaking free
won't be an easy decision, considering hes been messed with in several
ways.
> > Good thing is, I'm now *caring* about
> > Riley. He's gone from completly boring (up 'till The I in team) to
> > mildly interesting (The I in Team) to someone worth watching (Goodbye
> > Iowa). Now if they can keep this character interesting and not let him
> > slip back into his pre "The I in Team" state I promise I won't complain
> > about him as much.
>
> I'll hold you to that!
> There's no doubt Riley as a character has grown in the last two ep's. I
> don't the character can slip back to his old ways in any believable way.
I sure hope not! I just hope further development doesn' make him
annoying. I'm being optimistic and saying I kinda like him after all for
now.
> I think Mark Blucas is to good an actor for that to happen.
Better actor than I thought before. He can do it after all! To think he
started out playing pro basketball (euro league..)
> I wonder what'll happen to Willy the Snitch now that Riley knows about
> his place. Will tI come in and hold a razzia? A bit odd they didn't find
> it before btw. Anyway, it was nice to see Willy again.
Indeed it was. And a really funny scene too (punch me, just once, but
not too hard..) etc. etc. I'm not sure Riley will remember much of
anything about Willy, etc. or if he will do anything about it. tI has
other, bigger problems to deal with at the moment.
<Adam>
> Well, for now he's to flat a character for me to like. Not to strange,
> since Adam himself is still searching for his own identity. I really hope
> we'll see more of him interacting with other monsters and not only with
> the scooby-gang and tI. After all, that way we can get to know him much
> better than when he's beating up Buffy and tI.
That is his character, at the moment. Very very Frankenstein, atm. We
need to find out what the heck he's for (I'm guessing demon hunting)
first, and then find out if he intends to do what his original program
dictates. He's never going to be a real deeply motivated character like
Spike, Dru or the Mayor though; he's too bland by design. He's going to
be hard to kill though.
> > Tara. Now I've said a *lot* of times allready I like Tara. She's a cool
> > chracter. She has chemistry with Willow. She rocks!
> > Only what was up with the putting the dust under the couch bit? *Please*
> > tell me she's not a demon (which seems to be the most logical
> > explanation). May I just say Ted and Kathy to explain my not wanting her
> > to be a demon drift....
> > Other explanations could be she just wasn't ready to do that spell
> > (which I would find extremely week).
>
> It didn't even occur to me that she might be a demon! That would be *to*
> lame. I assumed she was just afraid to do the spell, being insecure and
> all.
Err...have you actually watched Buffy before? ;-)
Seriously though, I think there's more to it. Very delibirate hiding
away of powder, not much like the Tara we know (very little of, but
Ok..)
> Now you really got me worrying...
That's the point :)
> > She could also be hiding a demon
> > (which doesn't necessarily make her evil). Hell, she could even have
> > sensed some demonnish vibes from Willow and was attempting to hide that
> > from her to not hurt her feelings. My point being: We just don't know.
> > Can't wait to find out though.....
>
> I'd really wish they'd give her some more screen-time, though. She always
> appears in only one scene. How can we get to know her that way?
Slowly, keeping the mystery. This ep was a big tI ep, big plot
developments, so the little people and other characters didn't get much
screen time. I'm hoping for a Tara/Willow centric (sort of, anyway) ep
when things calm down again a little bit.
> It seems that Willow and Tara only cast spells that night, though. Had
> more happened, Willow surely wouldn't have said:
> "I hope you don't think that I just come over for the spells
> and everything. I mean, I really like just talking and hanging out
> with you and stuff."
> OTOH, it *does* show she really cares about Tara..
Yes indeed, and that Tara's opening up to Willow in a big way. A lot
less shyness, even a little quipping! Amazing! ;-)
<Xander's Basement>
> I'm not so sure they don't need to hide anymore. There's no telling what
> tI might do now that Riley's in the hospital.
True, but again, bigger problems, gotta wait for the Washington boys.
It's not like Xander's basement is safe anymore, they've seen Xander
inside the complex, without security clearance and all that.
> I rather hope they'll keep Xander's basement as a CMP[tm]. So nice and
> cozy! And this way we get much more bickering between Giles and Anya.
> Nice...
I don't. Too much chaos all around and all that. Giles' house better. Or
some other place that we don't have yet :-)
> > Furthermore we saw spike in this ep. We saw him getting his but kicked
> > by another demon. It seems it his turn of sides hasn't gone unnoticed in
> > the demon world. Wonder what, if any, repercutions that'll have in the
> > eps to come....
>
> I really hope he'll pick of those demons one by one on his own and that
> he doesn't come running to the gang screaming for help. I want Strong
> Spike [tm] again!
Kind of doubting that at the moment. Still wallowing in the self pity
thing. I want strong Spike back, but without the stupid chip in his
head.
<The Initiative: what next?>
> I thought they'd get some backup from HQ. I presume a new CO will be
> installed. Perhaps a baddie who doesn't like Slayers? We could call him
> Colonel Decker :)
Well, I doubt it. In essence, Riley is the CO on a military level, the
real power lies with the scientisits. They need new head scientists to
continue the project, not a military leader. I'm not sure they have
scientists capable of it avaliable though. Kind of a narrow,
specialistic field ;-)
> > Now
> > these are eps I've been looking forward to for quite some time, so I'm
> > hoping the Roll [tm] will continue at least another two eps.
>
> The next two were rumored to be quite good IIRC. But since the last two
> were rumored to be bad, I'm not getting my hopes up.
:-)
> > I'll be leaving you with my rating for "Goodbye Iowa": A whopping 8/10
>
> I'll go for the 7.5 again. It was good, but I rerally hope they'll do
> better yet.
Idem Ditto.
Mattia
ReplyMeister[tm]
Jonathan Black
> george van hal wrote:
> > Ninia wrote:
> > >
> > > > BTW, cool to see you here, Ninia :))
> > >
> > > Thanks Jonathan, despite my English summer course it is not
> > > so easy for me to read en write in English. It takes a lot
> > > of time.
> >
> > Well thanks for taking the effort! I'm certainly a "the more
> > the merier" type guy. Anyways a big huge official
> > "Welcome!!" from me :-)
>
> And me! Sorry, forgot that in the earlier post! Most welcome
> to our humble group. Have you seen our website yet?
> http://bite.to/abe
This is great, guys, but just for the record, this is by no means
Ninia's first ever appearance in the group. She's been around
pretty much ever since, say, Saskia joined, she even posted some
in the beginning and I wager she's been lurking pretty heavily
ever since. I think.
Mattia Valente
>
> Mattia Valente wrote:
>
> > Jonathan Black wrote:
> > >
> > > <snip Rob's interesting explanation of the `Goodbye Iowa' title>
> > >
> > > That was an interesting explanation of the `Goodbye Iowa'
> > > title, Rob, and while we're on the subject, I'd like to step
> > > back to last week's episode for a moment, because it may be
> > > just me, but personally I don't have the first clue what that
> > > title was all about. `The I in Team', anyone??
> >
> > You're a weirdo.
>
> Huh? What have I done wrong?
What? You ask that NOW?
Seriously though, are you saying you're not in the slightest bit weird?
At all? Somehow I'm finding that hard to believe.
> > I kinda like Rob's explanation. It was more together than
> > mine anyway.
>
> I liked it too. Did I imply otherwise? I had already interpreted
> it pretty much this way myself, I don't find this title
> particularly difficult or cryptic, and I therefor agreed with
> Rob's explo and took the chance to ask the questio about tIiT.
Ah. So, did I say that you implied otherwise? No, not really.
> > Oh, and do you really want a disucussion about what ep titles
> > mean?
>
> Any reason I should be afraid of one?
No, not really.
OK. I think it's actually one of the nicer ep titles.
> nothing to me. The only thing I can come up is is that Buffy
> becomes part of the "Team", meaning the Initiative, but it's
> still far from crystal clear. What the heck is with "The I"? Is
> it really just me? Is this some expression I haven't heard of?
I *think* the I in Team is actually an expression (I believe I've heard
it before..) so that might have helped me. The I, aka Buffy, is looking
for her role in the Team. Its a bit of a play on words, double meaning,
for me. On the one hand, its about her poisition, her role in the team
(tI) as a whole.
On the other side, there is no I in the word Team, which can be taken to
mean that the team is more important than the individual, tI mentality,
certainly not Buffy's, which means a clash, and implies conflict within
the group. That, there was, Buffy didn't fit in after all, Walsh tried
to kill her, etc. etc. Different view from the Scooby gang.
Something like that, anyway. That make any sense at all?
Mattia
ReplyMeister[tm]
Mattia Valente
Thought so, actually. Been quiet for a long time though..:-) And anyway,
everyone else was busy saying hi, so I figured, why not? Join in. And we
didn't have a web site pre-summer, and I don't get to plug it enough,
so...
;-)
Mattia
ReplyMeister[tm]
george van hal
Jonathan Black wrote:
I know (no really, I'm not just saying that). It just occured to me that
I'd never said welcome or anything before (right? If I did, than this
whole thing was kinda pointless) so I sorta choose this opportunity to
do so. Hope Ninia doesn't mind...
See Ya,
George
george van hal
Mattia Valente wrote:
<snip explanation>
> Something like that, anyway. That make any sense at all?
Yup, exactly what I took it to mean. Extra plus it that that I is also the
first letter in a certain orginasation.....
See Ya,
George
Rob
Jonathan Black <jona...@ch.twi.tudelft.nl> schreef in berichtnieuws
Pine.LNX.4.21.000924...@deadlock.et.tudelft.nl...
> <snip Rob's interesting explanation of the `Goodbye Iowa' title>
>
> That was an interesting explanation of the `Goodbye Iowa' title,
> Rob, and while we're on the subject, I'd like to step back to
> last week's episode for a moment, because it may be just me, but
> personally I don't have the first clue what that title was all
> about. `The I in Team', anyone??
>
p
o
i
l
e
r
a
l
e
r
t
b
e
w
a
r
e
There is no I in team is an expression. "I" has two meanings in this
context, the letter I and "me".
You might say it to somebody who doesn't want to cooperate with others when
he or she really should. Like for instance a soccer player who tries to
score himself when it would have been better to pass to another player.
So in this ep Buffy becomes part of a team (the Initiative) and it is
expexted of her to comply to the rules. Work together with the others.
In a military organisation even more than other "teams", individual members
are not meant to act on their own.
But Buffy does, she is not used to follow orders. So somebody like prof
Walsh might say to buffy :"Come on, Buffy. Get with the program, there is
no I in team, you know". But Buffy doesn't want to fit in, she *is* the
I in team.
Bye, Rob
Rob
But seriously, it was a stupid mistake. I am sorry.
Bye, Rob
busybee
> > Something like that, anyway. That make any sense at all?
>
> first letter in a certain orginasation.....
>
little eye, and so on)
see ya
busybee
Mattia Valente
> >
> > first letter in a certain orginasation.....
> >
> and the recurring pun in english about I and eye, why not? (i spy with my
> little eye, and so on)
Can't see where that would fit in in this case at all, sorry ;-)
Mattia
ReplyMeister[tm]
P@rick
>
> > Spoilers for Buffy season 4, ep14
> > p
> > o
> > i
> > l
> > e
> > r
> > p
> > a
> > c
> > e
> > a
> > n
> > d
> > a
> > b
> > i
> > t
> > m
> > o
> > r
> > e
> >
> say I told you so, but I told you so." :)
Doesn't fly. Riley *was* boring pre Goodbye Iowa.
> I wonder what'll happen to Willy the Snitch now that Riley knows about
> his place. Will tI come in and hold a razzia? A bit odd they didn't find
> it before btw.
That all depends whether Riley stays with tI or not. He needs to be
introduced to the Slayer & Scooby way a.s.a.p. He sees these things through
the eyes of an Initiative agent. And through those eyes, hanging out with
demons ain't too cool. Those medicines aren't the only habit he needs to
kick.
> I'd really wish they'd give her some more screen-time, though. She always
> appears in only one scene. How can we get to know her that way?
> It seems that Willow and Tara only cast spells that night, though. Had
> more happened, Willow surely wouldn't have said:
> "I hope you don't think that I just come over for the spells
> and everything. I mean, I really like just talking and hanging out
> with you and stuff."
> OTOH, it *does* show she really cares about Tara..
I'm not one to notice any subtext as well. But there are certain hints. Like
the way Tara reffered to the last spell they did, which she had been
thinking about all they. The least I can say is that spellcasting together
can be pretty intense and intimate. And it's obvious they like each other a
lot. They match in many ways and they can be soulmates. Maybe even more than
Buffy and Willow. It appears that Willow is the only friend Tara's got. And
Tara feels like she has won the jackpot with Willow. Which, in my opinion,
is definately the case.
> I rather hope they'll keep Xander's basement as a CMP[tm]. So nice and
> cozy! And this way we get much more bickering between Giles and Anya.
> Nice...
Especially when Giles gets more cranky bear each morning ;o)
> I really hope he'll pick of those demons one by one on his own and that
> he doesn't come running to the gang screaming for help. I want Strong
> Spike [tm] again!
I want that too. But I don't think it's a wise thing to do for Spike. All
hell would break loose, quite literally. Then he will definately have to
hide with the Scoobies. As in permanently moving in. Might as well dust him
then.
Bye, Patrick
Fuzzy
"Mattia Valente" <mae.v...@std.vu.nl> wrote in message
news:39CE856F...@std.vu.nl...
> > > hospital, so we'll just have to wait and see which side he's gonna
turn
> > > to. I'm thinking it'll be Buffy's side (did you see the guy staring
at
> > > that handkerchief (sp?) ?).
> >
> > Yup. I'm guessing he's hooked. He'll still be loyal to the Initiative
for
> > a time though, I think.
>
> The question I'm asking myself is what's left of the Initiative after
> all this? Anything much? Main researchers are dead, their creation
> flipped and went on a rampage...not good. We shall see. Breaking free
> won't be an easy decision, considering hes been messed with in several
> ways.
Well, it's a large organisation, so I'm sure there'll be some scientists
left. And backup's on it's way.
> > > Good thing is, I'm now *caring* about
> > > Riley. He's gone from completly boring (up 'till The I in team) to
> > > mildly interesting (The I in Team) to someone worth watching
(Goodbye
> > > Iowa). Now if they can keep this character interesting and not let
him
> > > slip back into his pre "The I in Team" state I promise I won't
complain
> > > about him as much.
> >
> > I'll hold you to that!
> > There's no doubt Riley as a character has grown in the last two ep's.
I
> > don't the character can slip back to his old ways in any believable
way.
>
> I sure hope not! I just hope further development doesn' make him
> annoying. I'm being optimistic and saying I kinda like him after all
for
> now.
I knew you would come to see the light :)
Are there still Riley-bashers out there?
> > I think Mark Blucas is to good an actor for that to happen.
>
> Better actor than I thought before. He can do it after all! To think he
> started out playing pro basketball (euro league..)
Not surprising considering his physique, but surprising considering his
acting skills, I agree.
> <Adam>
> > Well, for now he's to flat a character for me to like. Not to
strange,
> > since Adam himself is still searching for his own identity. I really
hope
> > we'll see more of him interacting with other monsters and not only
with
> > the scooby-gang and tI. After all, that way we can get to know him
much
> > better than when he's beating up Buffy and tI.
>
> That is his character, at the moment. Very very Frankenstein, atm. We
> need to find out what the heck he's for (I'm guessing demon hunting)
> first, and then find out if he intends to do what his original program
> dictates. He's never going to be a real deeply motivated character like
> Spike, Dru or the Mayor though; he's too bland by design. He's going to
> be hard to kill though.
You never know. They might make him more interesting if they make him the
big bad and he starts collecting lackeys. Not very probable with his
current programming, but one can hope.
> > > Tara. Now I've said a *lot* of times allready I like Tara. She's a
cool
> > > chracter. She has chemistry with Willow. She rocks!
> > > Only what was up with the putting the dust under the couch bit?
*Please*
> > > tell me she's not a demon (which seems to be the most logical
> > > explanation). May I just say Ted and Kathy to explain my not
wanting her
> > > to be a demon drift....
> > > Other explanations could be she just wasn't ready to do that spell
> > > (which I would find extremely week).
> >
> > It didn't even occur to me that she might be a demon! That would be
*to*
> > lame. I assumed she was just afraid to do the spell, being insecure
and
> > all.
>
> Err...have you actually watched Buffy before? ;-)
hčhč. Call me naive.
> > I'd really wish they'd give her some more screen-time, though. She
always
> > appears in only one scene. How can we get to know her that way?
>
> Slowly, keeping the mystery. This ep was a big tI ep, big plot
> developments, so the little people and other characters didn't get much
> screen time. I'm hoping for a Tara/Willow centric (sort of, anyway) ep
> when things calm down again a little bit.
Me too!
> > It seems that Willow and Tara only cast spells that night, though.
Had
> > more happened, Willow surely wouldn't have said:
> > "I hope you don't think that I just come over for the spells
> > and everything. I mean, I really like just talking and hanging out
> > with you and stuff."
> > OTOH, it *does* show she really cares about Tara..
>
> Yes indeed, and that Tara's opening up to Willow in a big way. A lot
> less shyness, even a little quipping! Amazing! ;-)
The insecurity is still visible, but a lot less pronounced than in the
beginning. Well done by Amber.
> <Xander's Basement>
> > I'm not so sure they don't need to hide anymore. There's no telling
what
> > tI might do now that Riley's in the hospital.
>
> True, but again, bigger problems, gotta wait for the Washington boys.
> It's not like Xander's basement is safe anymore, they've seen Xander
> inside the complex, without security clearance and all that.
Good point. So were do they go from here? Spike's crypt? :)
> > > Furthermore we saw spike in this ep. We saw him getting his but
kicked
> > > by another demon. It seems it his turn of sides hasn't gone
unnoticed in
> > > the demon world. Wonder what, if any, repercutions that'll have in
the
> > > eps to come....
> >
> > I really hope he'll pick of those demons one by one on his own and
that
> > he doesn't come running to the gang screaming for help. I want Strong
> > Spike [tm] again!
>
> Kind of doubting that at the moment. Still wallowing in the self pity
> thing. I want strong Spike back, but without the stupid chip in his
> head.
I kinda hope the self pity thing will be gone now that he knows he can
hit demons.
It just occured to me that the reason he's able to hit demons, is
possibly that tI meant to use him as a weapon against other demons. Makes
sense, yes?
> > > Now
> > > these are eps I've been looking forward to for quite some time, so
I'm
> > > hoping the Roll [tm] will continue at least another two eps.
> >
> > The next two were rumored to be quite good IIRC. But since the last
two
> > were rumored to be bad, I'm not getting my hopes up.
>
> :-)
Well, I just saw Angel, Sanctuary. Still a bit blown away by it. Best ep
so far in either Angel S1 or Buffy S4, IMHO, even if it was a bit rushed.
There was one big spoiler in it for Buffy and it makes me hope for the
best for the next two ep's to come! Won't tell anything more. Wouldn't
want to spoil you :)
Sierk
Fuzzy
"P@rick" <P.J.Mee...@students.fss.VampWillow.uu.nl> wrote in message
news:8qnhd4$sq2$1...@news.surfnet.nl...
"Hate to
> > say I told you so, but I told you so." :)
>
> Doesn't fly. Riley *was* boring pre Goodbye Iowa.
<pedantic>
That's your opinion. I saw potential where you saw vast plains of
boredom!.
</pedantic>
:)
> > I wonder what'll happen to Willy the Snitch now that Riley knows
about
> > his place. Will tI come in and hold a razzia? A bit odd they didn't
find
> > it before btw.
>
> That all depends whether Riley stays with tI or not. He needs to be
> introduced to the Slayer & Scooby way a.s.a.p. He sees these things
through
> the eyes of an Initiative agent. And through those eyes, hanging out
with
> demons ain't too cool. Those medicines aren't the only habit he needs
to
> kick.
I don't think he'll get very cuddly with demons. They certainly won't get
cuddly with him! Unless they have spiked bodyarmour of course... After
all, he has killed/captured 17 HST's.
> > I'd really wish they'd give her some more screen-time, though. She
always
> > appears in only one scene. How can we get to know her that way?
> > It seems that Willow and Tara only cast spells that night, though.
Had
> > more happened, Willow surely wouldn't have said:
> > "I hope you don't think that I just come over for the spells
> > and everything. I mean, I really like just talking and hanging out
> > with you and stuff."
> > OTOH, it *does* show she really cares about Tara..
>
> I'm not one to notice any subtext as well. But there are certain hints.
Like
> the way Tara reffered to the last spell they did, which she had been
> thinking about all they. The least I can say is that spellcasting
together
> can be pretty intense and intimate. And it's obvious they like each
other a
> lot. They match in many ways and they can be soulmates. Maybe even more
than
> Buffy and Willow. It appears that Willow is the only friend Tara's got.
And
> Tara feels like she has won the jackpot with Willow. Which, in my
opinion,
> is definately the case.
Hear, hear!
> > I really hope he'll pick of those demons one by one on his own and
that
> > he doesn't come running to the gang screaming for help. I want Strong
> > Spike [tm] again!
>
> I want that too. But I don't think it's a wise thing to do for Spike.
All
> hell would break loose, quite literally. Then he will definately have
to
> hide with the Scoobies. As in permanently moving in. Might as well dust
him
> then.
We'll see. I'm getting optimistic for the rest of S4! Probably because of
the Angel-goodness I just watched :)
Sierk
Jonathan Black
> Jonathan Black wrote:
> > Mattia Valente wrote:
> > > Jonathan Black wrote:
> > > >
> > > > That was an interesting explanation of the `Goodbye Iowa'
> > > > title, Rob, and while we're on the subject, I'd like to
> > > > step back to last week's episode for a moment, because it
> > > > may be just me, but personally I don't have the first
> > > > clue what that title was all about. `The I in Team',
> > > > anyone??
> > >
> > > You're a weirdo.
> >
> > Huh? What have I done wrong?
>
> What? You ask that NOW?
>
> Seriously though, are you saying you're not in the slightest
> bit weird? At all? Somehow I'm finding that hard to believe.
Eh... sure, I'm weird. Definitely. Just didn't quite get how that
fact was relevant here. Talking about the meaning of ep titles is
weird, is it? OK, I guess... :)
> > > I kinda like Rob's explanation. It was more together than
> > > mine anyway.
> >
> > I liked it too. Did I imply otherwise? I had already interpreted
> > it pretty much this way myself, I don't find this title
> > particularly difficult or cryptic, and I therefor agreed with
> > Rob's explo and took the chance to ask the questio about tIiT.
>
> Ah. So, did I say that you implied otherwise? No, not really.
Did I imply that you implied that I implied otherwise. No, not
really. (Actually, maybe I did.) :-P
> > > Oh, and do you really want a disucussion about what ep
> > > titles mean?
> >
> > Any reason I should be afraid of one?
>
> No, not really.
Good :)
Yep. Thanks, that's great. I, like, totally get it now :) As Rob
has also pointed out, it is indeed an expression, "there's no `I'
in `TEAM'". I really don't think I'd ever heard of it. Perhaps
it's a tad American, that'll have to be my excuse, I guess :)
BTW, BuffyGuide.com also tackles this point:
<http://BuffyGuide.com/episodes/iinteam.shtml#references>
|
| The title of the episode is itself a reference to the adage
| "There's no 'I' in 'TEAM.'" This is often used by coaches in
| team sports, as well as other team situations. Taken
| literally, it means exactly what it says, but the point of it
| is that the individual should be a complete and total team
| player -- the team should work as a unit, with no one
| individual acting for themselves alone.
I'm loving this title now. Very cool. Especially the extra fact
the The I can also be taken to stand for The Initiative, though
I'm not quite sure that part's intentionnal as it may not make
much sense. The Initiative *is* the team, so they can't really be
*in* the team. Or should we take "the team" to mean the Scooby
Gang for this angle? The Initiative joined in with the SC? Sort
of, I guess, but that's not really the way is was, was it? I
dunno...
;-)
--
J o N a T H a N
QuoteMeister [tm]
Buffy: "You guys don't have to get involved."
Xander: "What d'ya mean? We're a team! Aren't we a team?"
Willow: "Yeah! You're the Slayer, and we're, like, the
Slayerettes!"
--`The Witch'
Buffy the Vampire Slayer