Angel ep title-based speculation (S3 spoilers)
Niall Harrison
I'm bored. And how come we've got titles for the last five episodes of
_Buffy_, but only for the next three of _Angel_, eh?
Anyway. Speculation for the next three episodes - so spoilers for S3 up to
3x16.
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'Forgiving' (only a week and a bit to go!)
Angel has to forgive Wes. Duh. But also:
Lilah has to beg forgiveness from Linwood?
Gunn's going to feel guilty about his part in Wes' downfall - he has to
forgive himself?
Wouldn't be surprised if they bring Justine into this somehow, as well.
I half-suspect Cordy won't be in this one, either - there's too much other
stuff to deal with first.
'Double Or Nothing'
'Couplet' was the episode about relationships from the outside looking in.
DoN will be about G/F and C/Groo from the inside looking out. Are they
more together than they were seperately? How do their relationships affect
their interactions with their friends?
'The Price'
Cordy finds out about her demon side. Betcha.
After that...who knows? Connor's got to pop up again at some point, but
I'd be surprised if it's in any of these three.
Thoughts?
Niall
--
No more worries and doubt, the good will come out.
Tafka
>'The Price'
>
>Cordy finds out about her demon side. Betcha.
*Please*, *please*, *please*.
-Tafka-
I've been dead once already; it's very liberating.
You might think of it as... therapy.
Niall Harrison
Patience, grasshopper!
Niall
--
We've got the dreamer's disease.
Stephen Walker
Have you seen the trailer yet? Gaaaahhh! What have they done to her hair?
Stephen
--
"Spike will never be a good boy. He doesn't have it in him." - Joss Whedon.
Saskia
> I'm bored. And how come we've got titles for the last five episodes of
> _Buffy_, but only for the next three of _Angel_, eh?
Plus, you probably just saved this newsgroup from being deleted due to no
traffic. so thank you! :)
*sigh* That long?
> Angel has to forgive Wes. Duh. But also:
Duh indeed.
> Lilah has to beg forgiveness from Linwood?
Um, why was that again? Anyway, Lilah and begging? Lilah and wanting
forgiveness? Hah! Never! She may say the words if that would be beneficial
to her in some way but she'd never mean it.
> Gunn's going to feel guilty about his part in Wes' downfall - he has to
> forgive himself?
> Wouldn't be surprised if they bring Justine into this somehow, as well.
If they can do that in an un-tacky way.
> I half-suspect Cordy won't be in this one, either - there's too much other
> stuff to deal with first.
I miss Cordy :(
> 'Double Or Nothing'
> 'Couplet' was the episode about relationships from the outside looking in.
> DoN will be about G/F and C/Groo from the inside looking out. Are they
> more together than they were seperately? How do their relationships affect
> their interactions with their friends?
Hmmm. Could be.
> 'The Price'
>
> Cordy finds out about her demon side. Betcha.
Hope so.
> After that...who knows? Connor's got to pop up again at some point, but
> I'd be surprised if it's in any of these three.
>
> Thoughts?
Not many. Brain is a bit fried atm. But thanks for your thoughts ;)
--
Saskia
The outside world just doesn't get the joke. Fishism.
Saskia
Who's hair??! No no don't answer that.
Tell me!!
No! Don't....
argh!
--
Saskia
Niall Harrison
Haven't seen it, don't intend to watch it. :-)
(And I don't want to know who 'she' is either, please - If Cordy's back, I
want to be surprised)
Niall
--
The city sun sets over me.
Tafka
alt.buffy.europe said:
>> Lilah has to beg forgiveness from Linwood?
>
>Um, why was that again?
W&H's policy towards Angel was that of leaving him alone until he's
beneficial towards them, wasn't it?
Lilah had to bury the finance, source the men etc for the Holtz/Connor
plan. It's going to catch up with her.
-Tafka-
"Welcome to Rivendell.... Mr Anderson"
Niall Harrison
Now only a week!
God, if I've got this much anticipation now, I'm going to be a nervous wreck
this time next week.
> > Angel has to forgive Wes. Duh. But also:
>
> Duh indeed.
But will he? I can see it going either way - zenAngel realises it wasn't really
Wes' fault, or he loses perspective and tries to kill the guy.
The latter would be more fun, natch. :-)
> > Lilah has to beg forgiveness from Linwood?
>
> Um, why was that again? Anyway, Lilah and begging? Lilah and wanting
> forgiveness? Hah! Never! She may say the words if that would be beneficial
> to her in some way but she'd never mean it.
OK, so I was shorthanding. There's definitely a chance that her failure
to capture Connor is going to come back to haunt her, though. Lilah would
probably be the reversal of the theme, the one who *isn't* prepared to seek
forgiveness.
> > Gunn's going to feel guilty about his part in Wes' downfall - he has to
> > forgive himself?
> > Wouldn't be surprised if they bring Justine into this somehow, as well.
>
> If they can do that in an un-tacky way.
I like Justine. I wanna see more of Justine!
> > I half-suspect Cordy won't be in this one, either - there's too much other
> > stuff to deal with first.
>
> I miss Cordy :(
Me too, but it would make sense to me if they kept her out of 'Forgiving', or
only brought her back at the end.
> > 'Double Or Nothing'
>
> > 'Couplet' was the episode about relationships from the outside looking in.
> > DoN will be about G/F and C/Groo from the inside looking out. Are they
> > more together than they were seperately? How do their relationships affect
> > their interactions with their friends?
>
> Hmmm. Could be.
Or, I could be completely wrong. But the only other thing I can think of for
DoN is something gambling-related.
> > 'The Price'
> >
> > Cordy finds out about her demon side. Betcha.
>
> Hope so.
Here's another idea that I just came across: If Groo comes back, he can
be goofy so Angel doesn't have to be. And frankly, Groo-variant goofiness
is much more appealing than Angel-variant goofiness. It's almost enough to
make me want Groo around on a full-time basis. :-P
Niall
--
A little charm and a lot of style.
Saskia
How you doing today? Just read you got your S2 DVD (*smap*) so I'm guessing
happy and maybe forgetting about the upcoming forgiveness.
Then again, maybe not :)
I know I'm going nuts with anticipation. This is the first time that I am
more looking forward to Angel than to Buffy. Possibly because Buffy is way
too depressing, despite the glimmer of hope we got last time.
> > > Angel has to forgive Wes. Duh. But also:
> >
> > Duh indeed.
>
> But will he? I can see it going either way - zenAngel realises it wasn't really
> Wes' fault, or he loses perspective and tries to kill the guy.
>
> The latter would be more fun, natch. :-)
Heh. But he won't. Try to kill Wes I mean. Not so sure about the forgiving
part either. Perhaps no-one is going to forgive anyone, perhaps this show is
about everyone *wanting* forgiveness but isn't getting any.
> > > Lilah has to beg forgiveness from Linwood?
> >
> > Um, why was that again? Anyway, Lilah and begging? Lilah and wanting
> > forgiveness? Hah! Never! She may say the words if that would be beneficial
> > to her in some way but she'd never mean it.
>
> OK, so I was shorthanding. There's definitely a chance that her failure
> to capture Connor is going to come back to haunt her, though. Lilah would
> probably be the reversal of the theme, the one who *isn't* prepared to seek
> forgiveness.
I wonder if she even has it in her.
> > > Gunn's going to feel guilty about his part in Wes' downfall - he has to
> > > forgive himself?
> > > Wouldn't be surprised if they bring Justine into this somehow, as well.
> >
> > If they can do that in an un-tacky way.
>
> I like Justine. I wanna see more of Justine!
What's there to like about an angry and bitter woman?
> > > 'Double Or Nothing'
> >
> > > 'Couplet' was the episode about relationships from the outside looking in.
> > > DoN will be about G/F and C/Groo from the inside looking out. Are they
> > > more together than they were seperately? How do their relationships affect
> > > their interactions with their friends?
> >
> > Hmmm. Could be.
>
> Or, I could be completely wrong. But the only other thing I can think of for
> DoN is something gambling-related.
Ooookay... let's go with option #1 for the time being. Haven't been able to
come up with anything better myself.
Unless this is going to be about Cordy. The levitation stuff was just step
one in her demonization process. Perhaps, if she really wants to keep the
visions *and* lose the pain, she has to accept green/purple horns.
> Here's another idea that I just came across: If Groo comes back, he can
> be goofy so Angel doesn't have to be. And frankly, Groo-variant goofiness
> is much more appealing than Angel-variant goofiness. It's almost enough to
> make me want Groo around on a full-time basis. :-P
Oh! Goofy Groo is just about as horrible as goofy Angel. Come to think of
it, I don't think I have ever seen a guy doing well on goofyness. It's just
always kind of embarrassing (no offense to anyone who might consider himself
being good at goofyness!)
--
Saskia
A skunk sat on a stump and thunk the stump stunk,
but the stump thunk the skunk stunk.
Niall Harrison
> Niall Harrison said:
>> Saskia <sas...@nksf.nl> wrote in message news:<MPG.1719764fe...@news.cis.dfn.de>...
>> > Niall Harrison said:
>> > > I'm bored. And how come we've got titles for the last five episodes of
>> > > _Buffy_, but only for the next three of _Angel_, eh?
>> >
>> > Plus, you probably just saved this newsgroup from being deleted due to no
>> > traffic. so thank you! :)
>> >
>> > > Anyway. Speculation for the next three episodes - so spoilers for S3 up to
>> > > 3x16.
Ep titles for 20-22 now, as well.
For your information, I was fine until I saw this post appear! Grr, argh.
;-)
> I know I'm going nuts with anticipation. This is the first time that I am
> more looking forward to Angel than to Buffy.
I'm trying to keep thing in perspective. I'm trying not to expect genius,
and just expect solid.
But deep down, I'm hoping for genius. Seems to me, this is Jeff Bell's big
test: Has he got what it takes?
> Possibly because Buffy is way too depressing, despite the glimmer of
> hope we got last time.
Call me an optimist, but I think the last five eps of _Buffy_ will be less
bleak. More than likely, there'll be more bad stuff happening, but I think
now that Buffy's turned that corner, the core of the show will be more
positive.
>> > > Angel has to forgive Wes. Duh. But also:
>> >
>> > Duh indeed.
>>
>> But will he? I can see it going either way - zenAngel realises it wasn't really
>> Wes' fault, or he loses perspective and tries to kill the guy.
>>
>> The latter would be more fun, natch. :-)
>
> Heh. But he won't. Try to kill Wes I mean.
I dunno. After the way he grabbed Gunn in 'Sleep Tight', I could see it.
> Not so sure about the forgiving
> part either. Perhaps no-one is going to forgive anyone, perhaps this show is
> about everyone *wanting* forgiveness but isn't getting any.
I could live with that. Bring on the pain!
>> > > Gunn's going to feel guilty about his part in Wes' downfall - he has to
>> > > forgive himself?
>> > > Wouldn't be surprised if they bring Justine into this somehow, as well.
>> >
>> > If they can do that in an un-tacky way.
>>
>> I like Justine. I wanna see more of Justine!
>
> What's there to like about an angry and bitter woman?
Her style. Justine rocks.
['Double Or Nothing']
> Unless this is going to be about Cordy. The levitation stuff was just step
> one in her demonization process. Perhaps, if she really wants to keep the
> visions *and* lose the pain, she has to accept green/purple horns.
Nah. That's 'The Price', I'm telling you.
>> Here's another idea that I just came across: If Groo comes back, he can
>> be goofy so Angel doesn't have to be. And frankly, Groo-variant goofiness
>> is much more appealing than Angel-variant goofiness. It's almost enough to
>> make me want Groo around on a full-time basis. :-P
>
> Oh! Goofy Groo is just about as horrible as goofy Angel.
I like Goofy Groo. He's kind of endearing. "Angel, your coat is singing!"
Next three eps:
Ep 20 -- A New World
W: Jeffrey Bell
D: Tim Minear
Ep 21 -- Benediction
W: Tim Minear
D: Tim Minear
Ep 22 -- Tomorrow
W: David Greenwalt
D: David Greenwalt
Please don't go to a demon dimension in ep 20 again. Please don't go to a
demon dimension in ep 20 again. Please don't go to a demon dimension in ep
20 again. :-)
(I think it's more likely Connor will come back in ep 20 and find himself
in 'a new world', however).
'Benediction'. I like that title. Invocating or a blessing, or good
wishes. More irony, d'you think?
And...we seem to have broken the pattern of the season finale title
containing words that need translation. :-)
Niall
--
16 Paracetamol, 16 Nytol, and a Radiohead album.
Niall Harrison
> Ep 21 -- Benediction
> W: Tim Minear
> D: Tim Minear
<snip>
> 'Benediction'. I like that title. Invocating or a blessing, or good
> wishes. More irony, d'you think?
There is a world in which that sentence makes sense, honest.
What I meant was, "Invocation of a blessing, or good wishes..."
Niall
--
Nothing is impossible in my all-powerful mind.
Saskia
> Previously, on alt.buffy.europe - Saskia wrote:
> > Niall Harrison said:
> >> Saskia <sas...@nksf.nl> wrote in message news:<MPG.1719764fe...@news.cis.dfn.de>...
> >> > Niall Harrison said:
>
> Ep titles for 20-22 now, as well.
Woo!!
> > How you doing today? Just read you got your S2 DVD (*smap*) so I'm guessing
> > happy and maybe forgetting about the upcoming forgiveness.
> >
> > Then again, maybe not :)
>
> For your information, I was fine until I saw this post appear! Grr, argh.
Oops, sorry! :)
> I'm trying to keep thing in perspective. I'm trying not to expect genius,
> and just expect solid.
Such restraint. I am expecting nothing less than genius.
> But deep down, I'm hoping for genius. Seems to me, this is Jeff Bell's big
> test: Has he got what it takes?
I'm lazy, which other episodes did he write?
> > Possibly because Buffy is way too depressing, despite the glimmer of
> > hope we got last time.
>
> Call me an optimist, but I think the last five eps of _Buffy_ will be less
> bleak. More than likely, there'll be more bad stuff happening, but I think
> now that Buffy's turned that corner, the core of the show will be more
> positive.
I have been saying this after almost every episode, hope is disappearing...
> > Heh. But he won't. Try to kill Wes I mean.
>
> I dunno. After the way he grabbed Gunn in 'Sleep Tight', I could see it.
Shocking that you can even think such a thing!
(there there Angel, it's all right, the bad man didn't mean that, promise)
> > Not so sure about the forgiving
> > part either. Perhaps no-one is going to forgive anyone, perhaps this show is
> > about everyone *wanting* forgiveness but isn't getting any.
>
> I could live with that. Bring on the pain!
Yeah!!! Pain rocks ass!!!
> >> I like Justine. I wanna see more of Justine!
> >
> > What's there to like about an angry and bitter woman?
>
> Her style. Justine rocks.
Don't see it yet.
> ['Double Or Nothing']
>
> > Unless this is going to be about Cordy. The levitation stuff was just step
> > one in her demonization process. Perhaps, if she really wants to keep the
> > visions *and* lose the pain, she has to accept green/purple horns.
>
> Nah. That's 'The Price', I'm telling you.
Hmmm, but you know how it is with these ep titles. Things are never what
they appear to be. I think they're quite good at thinking of interesting ep
titles on both shows. Have been thinking of making some kind of "best
titles poll" or something.
> >> Here's another idea that I just came across: If Groo comes back, he can
> >> be goofy so Angel doesn't have to be. And frankly, Groo-variant goofiness
> >> is much more appealing than Angel-variant goofiness. It's almost enough to
> >> make me want Groo around on a full-time basis. :-P
> >
> > Oh! Goofy Groo is just about as horrible as goofy Angel.
>
> I like Goofy Groo. He's kind of endearing. "Angel, your coat is singing!"
But his face goes all silly. I don't like silly faces.
> Next three eps:
>
> Ep 20 -- A New World
> W: Jeffrey Bell
> D: Tim Minear
Could be anything. But probably not what it suggests. Maybe we'll see Groo
going back to Pylea and make it all new and shiny. And maybe we'll see what
W&H has to do with Pylea. We never got anything on that, did we?
> Please don't go to a demon dimension in ep 20 again. Please don't go to a
> demon dimension in ep 20 again. Please don't go to a demon dimension in ep
> 20 again. :-)
I wouldn't mind, as long as they're out by the end of the episode.
> (I think it's more likely Connor will come back in ep 20 and find himself
> in 'a new world', however).
Hmmmmm....
> 'Benediction'. I like that title. Invocating or a blessing, or good
> wishes. More irony, d'you think?
I'm not in that other world and I did figure out what you were meant to say
here ;) And I really have no clue. Your guess is as good as any.
> And...we seem to have broken the pattern of the season finale title
> containing words that need translation. :-)
:-)
--
Saskia
Niall Harrison
> Niall Harrison said:
>> Previously, on alt.buffy.europe - Saskia wrote:
>> > Niall Harrison said:
>> >> Saskia <sas...@nksf.nl> wrote in message news:<MPG.1719764fe...@news.cis.dfn.de>...
>> >> > Niall Harrison said:
>>
>> Ep titles for 20-22 now, as well.
>
> Woo!!
Yes!
Must...focus...on...work...
>> I'm trying to keep thing in perspective. I'm trying not to expect genius,
>> and just expect solid.
>
> Such restraint. I am expecting nothing less than genius.
Uh-huh.
>> But deep down, I'm hoping for genius. Seems to me, this is Jeff Bell's big
>> test: Has he got what it takes?
>
> I'm lazy, which other episodes did he write?
'That Vision Thing'
'Billy' (with Tim Minear)
'Quickening'
'Couplet' (with Tim Minear)
It seems to me that despite writing four episodes, he's still something of
an unknown quantity. TVT was solid but unspectacular (Skip aside, natch),
and 'Quickening' did a good job of making set-up fun, but his two
character-heavy episodes were joint with TM, so we don't know how much is
attributable to JB.
>> > Possibly because Buffy is way too depressing, despite the glimmer of
>> > hope we got last time.
>>
>> Call me an optimist, but I think the last five eps of _Buffy_ will be less
>> bleak. More than likely, there'll be more bad stuff happening, but I think
>> now that Buffy's turned that corner, the core of the show will be more
>> positive.
>
> I have been saying this after almost every episode, hope is disappearing...
Yes, but NA went to such lengths to make sure we all understood what the
point of the season was, and to tell us that this time Buffy made the
choice to return to the Buffyverse, that she's got to be more positive
now...
>> > Heh. But he won't. Try to kill Wes I mean.
>>
>> I dunno. After the way he grabbed Gunn in 'Sleep Tight', I could see it.
>
> Shocking that you can even think such a thing!
>
> (there there Angel, it's all right, the bad man didn't mean that, promise)
I just think 'Heartthrob' might turn out to be all forshadowy.
"This your idea of love, James? It's not real unless it kills you?"
"What's yours - it's fun as long as it doesn't cost me anything?"
I can easily see Angel seeing James' point of view now.
>> >> I like Justine. I wanna see more of Justine!
>> >
>> > What's there to like about an angry and bitter woman?
>>
>> Her style. Justine rocks.
>
> Don't see it yet.
Yes, but you don't like Holtz. :-P
>> ['Double Or Nothing']
>>
>> > Unless this is going to be about Cordy. The levitation stuff was just step
>> > one in her demonization process. Perhaps, if she really wants to keep the
>> > visions *and* lose the pain, she has to accept green/purple horns.
>>
>> Nah. That's 'The Price', I'm telling you.
>
> Hmmm, but you know how it is with these ep titles. Things are never what
> they appear to be. I think they're quite good at thinking of interesting ep
> titles on both shows. Have been thinking of making some kind of "best
> titles poll" or something.
Ooh, yes! Good idea.
>> >> Here's another idea that I just came across: If Groo comes back, he can
>> >> be goofy so Angel doesn't have to be. And frankly, Groo-variant goofiness
>> >> is much more appealing than Angel-variant goofiness. It's almost enough to
>> >> make me want Groo around on a full-time basis. :-P
>> >
>> > Oh! Goofy Groo is just about as horrible as goofy Angel.
>>
>> I like Goofy Groo. He's kind of endearing. "Angel, your coat is singing!"
>
> But his face goes all silly. I don't like silly faces.
Well, just concentrate on his upper arms instead, then. :-P
>> Next three eps:
>>
>> Ep 20 -- A New World
>> W: Jeffrey Bell
>> D: Tim Minear
>
> Could be anything. But probably not what it suggests.
Yeah, I somehow doubt it's that obvious. Then again, last season we got
'Over The Rainbow' and 'Through The Looking-Glass', so...
> Maybe we'll see Groo
> going back to Pylea and make it all new and shiny. And maybe we'll see what
> W&H has to do with Pylea. We never got anything on that, did we?
Aside from the book in 'Couplet', no. And I'm still holding out for that
to have some relevance.
>> Please don't go to a demon dimension in ep 20 again. Please don't go to a
>> demon dimension in ep 20 again. Please don't go to a demon dimension in ep
>> 20 again. :-)
>
> I wouldn't mind, as long as they're out by the end of the episode.
Good point.
>> (I think it's more likely Connor will come back in ep 20 and find himself
>> in 'a new world', however).
>
> Hmmmmm....
Well, he's gonna come back at some point, right? Not sure about Holtz, but
Connor will be back.
>> 'Benediction'. I like that title. Invocating or a blessing, or good
>> wishes. More irony, d'you think?
>
> I'm not in that other world and I did figure out what you were meant to say
> here ;) And I really have no clue. Your guess is as good as any.
It's got to be irony. The religous slant makes me think Holtz may be
involved, but other than that...
Niall
--
Burn baby burn.
Saskia
> Previously, on alt.buffy.europe - Saskia wrote:
> > Niall Harrison said:
> >> Previously, on alt.buffy.europe - Saskia wrote:
> >> > Niall Harrison said:
> >> >> Saskia <sas...@nksf.nl> wrote in message news:<MPG.1719764fe...@news.cis.dfn.de>...
> >> >> > Niall Harrison said:
> >>
> >> Ep titles for 20-22 now, as well.
> >
> > Woo!!
>
> Yes!
Hoo!!
Almost almost almost almost almost almost almost almost almost almost!!
> >> But deep down, I'm hoping for genius. Seems to me, this is Jeff Bell's big
> >> test: Has he got what it takes?
> >
> > I'm lazy, which other episodes did he write?
>
> 'That Vision Thing'
> 'Billy' (with Tim Minear)
> 'Quickening'
> 'Couplet' (with Tim Minear)
Okay, not my favourite episodes, but good ones.
> It seems to me that despite writing four episodes, he's still something of
> an unknown quantity. TVT was solid but unspectacular (Skip aside, natch),
> and 'Quickening' did a good job of making set-up fun, but his two
> character-heavy episodes were joint with TM, so we don't know how much is
> attributable to JB.
It's gotta be good. They have kept us waiting so long, it just has to be
good.
> >> >> I like Justine. I wanna see more of Justine!
> >> >
> >> > What's there to like about an angry and bitter woman?
> >>
> >> Her style. Justine rocks.
> >
> > Don't see it yet.
>
> Yes, but you don't like Holtz. :-P
:-PP
> >> > Oh! Goofy Groo is just about as horrible as goofy Angel.
> >>
> >> I like Goofy Groo. He's kind of endearing. "Angel, your coat is singing!"
> >
> > But his face goes all silly. I don't like silly faces.
>
> Well, just concentrate on his upper arms instead, then. :-P
ahhhhhh
> Well, he's gonna come back at some point, right? Not sure about Holtz, but
> Connor will be back.
Oh yes, I'm pretty sure they both will.
I snipped a lot... too excited to concentrate on anything :)
--
Saskia