Question on "Benedict" - Spoilers for 3x21 (Angel)
Tafka
SPOILERS FOR ANGEL; SEASON 3 EPISODE 21 (US BROADCAST *LAST* NIGHT,
Sky in 3 weeks).
Just a simple question:
SPOILER
SPACE
.
.
.
.
.
SPOILER
SPACE
.
.
.
.
.
SPOILER
SPACE
.
.
.
.
.
SPOILER
SPACE
.
.
.
.
.
SPOILER
SPACE
.
.
.
.
.
SPOILER
SPACE
Is it coincidence that the puncture wounds on Holtz' neck are fang
shaped? Whilst he couldn't quite direct Justine's actions (presumably
he told her off shot to stab him in the neck and not to slice his
throat) he did say "Again"; for a second wound.
Is it just me or could he deliberately be turning Connor against his
real father to avenge his pseudo-father's death?
Y'know it made more sense earlier (like a lot of things do).
-Tafka-
Always remember, you're unique, just like everyone else.
Tafka
16:04:23 +0100 in alt.buffy.europe said:
Spelt wrong, yeah.
Benediction.
-Tafka-
No one needs to know about this except you, me and
Mr.-soon-to-be-living-the-rest-of-his-short-ass-life-in-agonizing-pain-rapist
here
Mattia Valente
>
> SPOILERS YOU WILL FIND HERE.
> SPOILERS FOR ANGEL; SEASON 3 EPISODE 21 (US BROADCAST *LAST* NIGHT,
> Sky in 3 weeks).
Yeah. Called 'Benediction', just FYI.
Er, no.
> Whilst he couldn't quite direct Justine's actions (presumably
> he told her off shot to stab him in the neck and not to slice his
> throat) he did say "Again"; for a second wound.
I'd say it was very definately planned out. Script says it was an
icepick that was used, I can't say I could tell, really. Wasn't paying
that close attention to the impliment, as it were.
> Is it just me or could he deliberately be turning Connor against his
> real father to avenge his pseudo-father's death?
Well, duh.
> Y'know it made more sense earlier (like a lot of things do).
It's, like, the ultimate vengance.
Mattia
--
"My beagle went swimming today and now he's typing on my keyboard with
his ample nose. Oh, and he's the bestest handsomeest beagle EVER."
--Tim Minear, Salon.com, May 2001
Liz
spamfree.boltfree.net says...
I thought "ooh, isn't it a coincidence" that the wounds were puncture
shaped. Only for it to be pointed out that yes, they bloody well are
puncture shaped and that in fact Holtz has been as cunning as a very cunning
thing, in persuading Connor to go back to Angel but not to be seduced by the
dark, and now Connor will presumably take revenge and finish off Angel
(well, attempt to).
AT this point everything went click, and made a whole load more sense. :)
But I'm glad to know it wasn't just me who missed it first time round. :)
--
Gratituous mention of SFX mag | 'I swear, that group has more oestrogen
in .sig purely to annoy the | per post than any other I’ve seen...'
staff when they Google for it | Niall Harrison on umte, 04/05/02
Tafka
alt.buffy.europe said:
I still say Holtz is a good guy :)
Twisted and pays attention to evil-little-details but still.
>AT this point everything went click, and made a whole load more sense. :)
>But I'm glad to know it wasn't just me who missed it first time round. :)
My judgement was clouded by reading alt.tv.angel who, to be fair to
them, do represent the "widest" range of 'opinions' and 'ideas'
anywhere.
They're some crazy people, there.
-Tafka-
Southern Shandy Drinking Bastards
Niall Harrison
> Just a simple question:
Well, that was my assumption from the get-go. If you just want to die,
there are a lot easier ways to do it than getting someone to stab you
twice in the neck with a screwdriver.
Niall
--
What you've never dreamed, you can't lose.
Tafka
Look, Harrison, if you want to get the 'credit' for stating the
obvious (well, not to me :P) then you should do so in your opening
post on the subject and not resort to little comments afterwards. [1]
Mwahahah.
-Tafka-
[1] And if this comes across as being "having-a-go" then it's not.
It's firmly tongue-in-cheek.
.sig follows:
We did so many terrible things together. So much destruction.
So much pain. We can’t make up for any of it.
Mattia Valente
And I say that's too simplistic. He's done a number of things that can
be qualified as bad, or at least morally dubious, and he does all he
does out of revenge, not a sense of what's right (well, okay, he thinks
so, but still). Bit narrow-minded, not really straight, sneaky, but no,
he's not Evil. That's the crux of it. He's not even really bad.
But...he's not Good, either.
> Twisted and pays attention to evil-little-details but still.
Well, quite.
> >AT this point everything went click, and made a whole load more sense. :)
> >But I'm glad to know it wasn't just me who missed it first time round. :)
>
> My judgement was clouded by reading alt.tv.angel who, to be fair to
> them, do represent the "widest" range of 'opinions' and 'ideas'
> anywhere.
Be more specific, you :-p
> They're some crazy people, there.
better than atbvs.
Mattia Valente
:-p
I did. Sorta kinda. In a rambly way.
> then you should do so in your opening
> post on the subject and not resort to little comments afterwards. [1]
Oookaaay.
Tafka
GMT in alt.buffy.europe said:
>> >>.
>>
>> I still say Holtz is a good guy :)
>
>And I say that's too simplistic.
>He's done a number of things that can
>be qualified as bad, or at least morally dubious, and he does all he
>does out of revenge, not a sense of what's right (well, okay, he thinks
>so, but still).
He gave Justine et al a reason to live again. He sought revenge for
the death of his family at the hand of a monster - *one* who is now
souled (the emphasis on the one; the other's (vampires) are still
there to be killed) yet still with the evil inside.
He took a human (as far as we can tell) baby away from the 'demon'
(albeit his intended consequences have now, obviously, changed).
He hasn't killed or maimed anyone. It's unsure quite how much he knew
about Justine's snatching of Connor from Wesley yet there certainly
was a level of respect between the two in their meetings which, IMO,
would indicate that he hadn't instructed her specifically on how to
snatch Connor (I may be wrong here, I'm not referencing).
So what's he done?
>> >AT this point everything went click, and made a whole load more sense. :)
>> >But I'm glad to know it wasn't just me who missed it first time round. :)
>>
>> My judgement was clouded by reading alt.tv.angel who, to be fair to
>> them, do represent the "widest" range of 'opinions' and 'ideas'
>> anywhere.
>
>Be more specific, you :-p
I don't like specific comments :)
If I change my mind I can't wriggle out of them afterwards. And I tend
to forget what ata say after reading; it's painful.
>> They're some crazy people, there.
>
>better than atbvs.
Those are people who I'm tempted to bait with Buffy stuff :)
(About to watch soon...)
-Tafka-
[ ]
Mattia Valente
Oh, yes, very healthily, too. By sending her off on a revenge trip to
Kill Angel. Remember how she slit Wes' throat, yes?
> He sought revenge for
> the death of his family at the hand of a monster - *one* who is now
> souled (the emphasis on the one; the other's (vampires) are still
> there to be killed) yet still with the evil inside.
A change he's completely unwilling to see, consider, or give a damn
about.
> He took a human (as far as we can tell) baby away from the 'demon'
> (albeit his intended consequences have now, obviously, changed).
See above, re: not caring about change.
> He hasn't killed or maimed anyone.
He had Justine maim Wes.
> It's unsure quite how much he knew
> about Justine's snatching of Connor from Wesley yet there certainly
> was a level of respect between the two in their meetings which, IMO,
> would indicate that he hadn't instructed her specifically on how to
> snatch Connor (I may be wrong here, I'm not referencing).
Well, no, not really, but it's still his responsibility, to a degree.
He's been using people to get his way.
> So what's he done?
BAsically, the blind prosecution of Angel, pretty much. Understandable,
but not completely on the up and up. Once his job was done, he left the
rest of his 'gang' to rot, not caring a whit what happened to them.
Again, he's not an Evil man, but his acts, understandable though they
may be, are not good.
>
> >> >AT this point everything went click, and made a whole load more sense. :)
> >> >But I'm glad to know it wasn't just me who missed it first time round. :)
> >>
> >> My judgement was clouded by reading alt.tv.angel who, to be fair to
> >> them, do represent the "widest" range of 'opinions' and 'ideas'
> >> anywhere.
> >
> >Be more specific, you :-p
>
> I don't like specific comments :)
Yes, because they're dangerous, right?
> If I change my mind I can't wriggle out of them afterwards. And I tend
> to forget what ata say after reading; it's painful.
Oh.
> >> They're some crazy people, there.
> >
> >better than atbvs.
>
> Those are people who I'm tempted to bait with Buffy stuff :)
Don't bait, it's pointless. They're not watching the same show we are.