Angel 5x03
Dan Milburn
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In many ways, this felt like a season 1 episode. Girl gets bitten by
werewolf, Angel tries to help girl, girl gets kidnapped, Angel rescues
girl, there's a slight twist where the girl decides that she'd actually
rather be dead, and Angel talks her out of it. Of course, there was the
W&H angle - it was an employee who'd gotten her kidnapped, but that was
pretty much incidental.
So, y'know, it should have been fun, and for much of the episode it was,
if not exactly breaking any new ground. But then they kept trying to
use the girls situation to tell us something about Angel, except, what
could it tell us that we didn't already know? Angel has a beast inside
him that needs to be controlled, Angel gets lonely, blah blah, yaaawwn.
It didn't help that the writing was really rather poor.
We also have Spike, although not much progression from last week there.
He wanders around saying 'bloody' a lot, his crossing into hell or
whatever is getting worse but he doesn't want Angel to know about it, so
will only talk to Fred. But I can't see him being a ghost for more than
another episode or two, so can we just get on with it already? The bit
where he makes up a story about him and Wesley and Fred sees right
through it is fun, though. Also, in my download there was a really
awkward cut from the bad guy in mid-sentence threatening the gang to
Spike & Fred. Did that happen for everyone?
Then there's the ending. What the hell was that all about? Since when
did Angel do cheesy music sequences? The gang appear to be getting
comfortable at W&H, for absolutely no reason whatsoever - Spike's still
a ghost, there are still questions over what happened to Gunn, their
employees are still probably working against them, but hey, we actually
managed to help someone, let's celebrate! The whole thing, from Angels
talk with werewolf girl on, is horribly misjudged. Still, next weeks
looks fun. :)
Dan
Dan Milburn
> This is what Dan Milburn <daniel...@hotmail.com> just wrote:
>
> Wow, discussion!
>>Then there's the ending. What the hell was that all about? Since when
>>did Angel do cheesy music sequences? The gang appear to be getting
>>comfortable at W&H, for absolutely no reason whatsoever
>
>
> The scene at the end wasn't so much that they are getting comfortable
> at W&H. It's just the resolution to the issue at the beginning fo the
> episode: the gang feel distanced from one another. Angel finally shows
> them his office and they all order Chinese and have a chummy night in
> together, showing that the family has been reunited.
I see your point, although to me it felt like both.
> But yeah, it's
> very cheesy. It's cheesy like BtVS's "When She Was Bad", which closes
> on the silliest Dawson's Creek classroom scene imaginable.
I can forgive WSWB, though, partly because I like the rest of the
episode, but mostly because we've seen the issues being identified and
resolved, and that scene is about showing things getting back to normal.
What's normal for AI? The gang have been distanced from one another, in
varying degrees and for different reasons, since early season 3, and
even then the comfort was only for a brief time following Angels beige
period and the events of Pylea. This episode didn't even explore, much
less resolve, *any* of the issues between them.
>>Also, in my download there was a really
>>awkward cut from the bad guy in mid-sentence threatening the gang to
>>Spike & Fred. Did that happen for everyone?
>
>
> I was warned away from the FFN encode, because of this sloppy cut and
> the darkness of the picture.
That would be the one I downloaded. D'oh! Getting an SVCD off ABMBVS now.
> It really is harder to find a good copy
> of each episode now that the regular reliable FTV wildfeed caps are no
> more.
Although it should actually be easier, now that Angel's being broadcast
in Hi-Def. Probably better to wait a few days for decent encodes.
> I got an "XSVCD" from bittorrent (also on the newsgroup). Great
> quality. Very bright, high resolution.
I don't generally get the XSVCDs, cos I can't play them on my DVD player.
Dan
Shuggie
Yay an Angel S5 thread!
I'm halfway through writing my own review so I'll probably not go into too much
depth here.
>In many ways, this felt like a season 1 episode. Girl gets bitten by
>werewolf, Angel tries to help girl, girl gets kidnapped, Angel rescues
>girl, there's a slight twist where the girl decides that she'd actually
>rather be dead, and Angel talks her out of it. Of course, there was the
>W&H angle - it was an employee who'd gotten her kidnapped, but that was
>pretty much incidental.
>
It was a standard MotW format. Spent longer on introducing the girl than
strictly necessary - but they left it open for her to be a recurring character
so I'm guessing that's why.
>So, y'know, it should have been fun, and for much of the episode it was,
>if not exactly breaking any new ground. But then they kept trying to
>use the girls situation to tell us something about Angel, except, what
>could it tell us that we didn't already know? Angel has a beast inside
>him that needs to be controlled, Angel gets lonely, blah blah, yaaawwn.
I don't have a problem with that so long as they do it well. Buffy spent 7 years
essentially telling us one thing - it's hard to be a Slayer and have a normal
life. They took a theme and developed it.
What's lacking here is development and finesse in the telling.
> It didn't help that the writing was really rather poor.
>
Yup. Craft and Fain aren't my favourites. They've been responsible for
Supersymmetry and Shiny Happy People - two of my least favourite eps. Soulless
wasn't bad though.
I hate speculating on this kind of thing generally but I've got to wonder where
Joss was in the process. There are weaknesses in the story and yet presumably he
attended the story-breaking. There was some of the blandest, pedestrian dialogue
in any ME ep ever - yet presumably he was available to give notes on the script.
I can't believe that Firefly the movie is taking that much of his time yet.
>We also have Spike, although not much progression from last week there.
> He wanders around saying 'bloody' a lot, his crossing into hell or
>whatever is getting worse but he doesn't want Angel to know about it, so
>will only talk to Fred.
Like last week, the Spike/Fred scenes were the best thing about the ep. JM
continues to show off his acting chops, rising about the writing itself.
>But I can't see him being a ghost for more than
>another episode or two, so can we just get on with it already? The bit
>where he makes up a story about him and Wesley and Fred sees right
>through it is fun, though.
Yeah that was well-done. There was another joke that fell flat though. When
they're in the lab and Spike's describing a fight with a werewolf and Fred tells
him that Angel killed this one with a pen. AA's reading was a little too
irritated to sell the line, it needed to be deadpan and we needed more of a
reaction from JM. I tend to blame the director for that though.
>Also, in my download there was a really
>awkward cut from the bad guy in mid-sentence threatening the gang to
>Spike & Fred. Did that happen for everyone?
>
Not for me.
>Then there's the ending. What the hell was that all about? Since when
>did Angel do cheesy music sequences? The gang appear to be getting
>comfortable at W&H, for absolutely no reason whatsoever - Spike's still
>a ghost, there are still questions over what happened to Gunn, their
>employees are still probably working against them, but hey, we actually
>managed to help someone, let's celebrate! The whole thing, from Angels
>talk with werewolf girl on, is horribly misjudged. Still, next weeks
>looks fun. :)
>
I could see what they were going for but they didn't quite pull it off. In the
beginning the gang are fragmented, not quite trusting one another, having
various issues and disagreements. Angel's just reminded himself, by telling
Nina, that the key to not letting it all go is to have people around you that
you care about. So he deliberately re-connects with the group, inviting them to
his new apartment - and we see that fundamentally their relationships are still
sound.
That's what they're going for I think. It doesn't work as well as it should for
at least two reasons -
1) they over-did the sentimentality of the final scene
2) it's all coming from Angel's perspective - are we to believe that because
Angel decides to have a flat-warming that Gunn no longer resents the others for
thinking he's a traitor, or that Fred is now comfortable with Wes' jealousy? I
think they needed to show us the other characters realising the need for
re-connection and/or show that this is a temporary putting aside of deeper
issues.
I do respect what they tried to do - they just didn't quite acheive it. Same
goes for the ep as a whole.
--
Shug
Shuggie
>>use the girls situation to tell us something about Angel, except, what
>>could it tell us that we didn't already know? Angel has a beast inside
>>him that needs to be controlled, Angel gets lonely, blah blah, yaaawwn.
>>
>
>very primitive filler it was too. It had the feel of an AtS season 1
>episode, dealing with a theme that was fully explored in BtVS season
>2. I can't believe they would have a werewolf episode without even
>mentioning Oz; without even saying: "Hey, didn't Willow date that guy
>who was a werewolf, and he travelled the world in search of a cure and
>eventually learned to control his transformation through meditation
>and self-awareness?" Nope. Just an excuse for some really primitive
>reminders that Angel has a demon within him and his life is about
>controlling it. Quite pointless.
I don't see why they need to reference Oz. He's just another werewolf. They have
people who know about werewolves. It's not like his cure was foolproof.
I'm not necessarily a fan of constantly referring back to events in the
backstory.
>
>I did enjoy the dinner scenes. Quite grizzly. And each of these season
>5 episodes seems to give us at least one "Oohh, Angel is still really
>dark" moment. In this case it was letting the werewolf-eaters have Dr
>Phlox.
>
Although it's left confusing what actually happened to him. He wouldn't have
become a werewolf until the next full moon and Gunn closed down the restaurant
the next day. Maybe they killed him - who knows? It feels a bit untidy.
>But overall, this episode is a "bleh" filler, and I'd give it 2 out of
>5.
I think it's trying to do something that the show's done better in the past -
use the MotW to examine the central themes of our hero's life. I respect what
they tried to do even if they didn't pull it off.
>
>
>>Then there's the ending. What the hell was that all about? Since when
>>did Angel do cheesy music sequences? The gang appear to be getting
>>comfortable at W&H, for absolutely no reason whatsoever
>
>The scene at the end wasn't so much that they are getting comfortable
>at W&H. It's just the resolution to the issue at the beginning fo the
>episode: the gang feel distanced from one another. Angel finally shows
>them his office and they all order Chinese and have a chummy night in
>together, showing that the family has been reunited. But yeah, it's
>very cheesy. It's cheesy like BtVS's "When She Was Bad", which closes
>on the silliest Dawson's Creek classroom scene imaginable.
>
I agree that it's the equivalent to the WSWB ending. Where I disagree is that I
love that ending - with the possible exception of the music used - it really
works. But that's because we're beginning to learn how strong the relationships
are between the scoobies and that they are forgiving and supportive. We know
that they know why Buffy acted as she did and so we know why they forgive her.
Here nothing is resolved really. Wes presumably is still jealous of Fred. Gunn's
still under suspicion. It's like they just decided to leave all that stuff at
the office. Which in itself could almost work if they played it that way.
>
>>Also, in my download there was a really
>>awkward cut from the bad guy in mid-sentence threatening the gang to
>>Spike & Fred. Did that happen for everyone?
>
>I was warned away from the FFN encode, because of this sloppy cut and
>the darkness of the picture. It really is harder to find a good copy
>of each episode now that the regular reliable FTV wildfeed caps are no
>more.
>
FTV had great picture quality but they had annoying glitches in the sound.
Apparently, despite initial reports to the contrary, there are still unencrypted
wildfeed signals available - but because they weren't expecting them they
weren't being capped. I'd expect to start seeing clean wildfeed encodes again
soon.
--
Shug
Mark Evans
> through it is fun, though. Also, in my download there was a really
> awkward cut from the bad guy in mid-sentence threatening the gang to
> Spike & Fred. Did that happen for everyone?
There is a version without this cut in.
Mark Evans
>>
>>I did enjoy the dinner scenes. Quite grizzly. And each of these season
>>5 episodes seems to give us at least one "Oohh, Angel is still really
>>dark" moment. In this case it was letting the werewolf-eaters have Dr
>>Phlox.
>>
> Although it's left confusing what actually happened to him. He wouldn't have
> become a werewolf until the next full moon and Gunn closed down the restaurant
> the next day. Maybe they killed him - who knows? It feels a bit untidy.
Or they kept him locked up in the basement. Possibly he had a perpetual
clause in his employment contract :)
Jonathan Dupont
news:bmoq0...@drn.newsguy.com:
I've been rewatching a lot of Angel S1 recently through Sky One - it was
a lot more fun. (Plus, they had TM and could afford flashbacks...)
>>So, y'know, it should have been fun, and for much of the episode it
>>was, if not exactly breaking any new ground. But then they kept
>>trying to use the girls situation to tell us something about Angel,
>>except, what could it tell us that we didn't already know? Angel has
>>a beast inside him that needs to be controlled, Angel gets lonely,
>>blah blah, yaaawwn.
>
> I don't have a problem with that so long as they do it well. Buffy
> spent 7 years essentially telling us one thing - it's hard to be a
> Slayer and have a normal life. They took a theme and developed it.
>
> What's lacking here is development and finesse in the telling.
Exactly. It just didn't seem to go anywhere - apart from having a
werewolf again, I don't any point to the whole exercise.
>> It didn't help that the writing was really rather poor.
> Yup. Craft and Fain aren't my favourites. They've been responsible for
> Supersymmetry and Shiny Happy People - two of my least favourite eps.
> Soulless wasn't bad though.
I'd agree with that pretty much, although I didn't absolutely hate
Supersymmetry either (although I think its the only Angel S4 episode I
didn't bother to rewatch).
> I hate speculating on this kind of thing generally but I've got to
> wonder where Joss was in the process. There are weaknesses in the
> story and yet presumably he attended the story-breaking. There was
> some of the blandest, pedestrian dialogue in any ME ep ever - yet
> presumably he was available to give notes on the script.
True. I really, really hated the first scene - yay for the no
Previously, but that doesn't mean they need to replace it with countless
exposition.
> I can't believe that Firefly the movie is taking that much of his time
> yet.
>
>>We also have Spike, although not much progression from last week
>>there.
>> He wanders around saying 'bloody' a lot, his crossing into hell or
>>whatever is getting worse but he doesn't want Angel to know about it,
>>so will only talk to Fred.
>
> Like last week, the Spike/Fred scenes were the best thing about the
> ep. JM continues to show off his acting chops, rising about the
> writing itself.
Agreed.
>>But I can't see him being a ghost for more than
>>another episode or two, so can we just get on with it already? The
>>bit where he makes up a story about him and Wesley and Fred sees right
>>through it is fun, though.
I'm not sure whether it would have been a good thing if it was real or
not. I mean, obviously wouldn't work with the old Wes, but the idea of
Spike having some history with someone in the Angel crew appeals to me,
as long as its logical.
Anyway, nice moment.
> I do respect what they tried to do - they just didn't quite acheive
> it. Same goes for the ep as a whole.
That about sums it up. The part that kept me most interested to be
honest was the trailer at the end for next week's ep, which looked way
better.
Jon
Dave Emberton
news:FrQjb.428$NH7.2...@news-text.cableinet.net...
Quite enjoyed this one. My only disapointment really was having hinted about
dealing with the whole W&H issue at the start, that got instantly shelved
for the rest of the episode, and the Spike story didn't progress at all
despite being mentioned a few times. In short it was filler, but just
mentioning enough of the arc to try to keep people interested. Perhaps it
would have been better to do one or the other.
And was this the start of Joss' promised "nudity nudity nudity" from a few
years ago? ;-)
Dave
Dave Emberton
news:gomvovc2qnohld0e2...@4ax.com...
> Phlox.
You can't have enough of the Enterprise cast being harmed ;-) I must go and
watch "Helpless" again just to see the irritating English bloke get it.
> I got an "XSVCD" from bittorrent (also on the newsgroup). Great
> quality. Very bright, high resolution.
Got very good SVCD. But tell me, where do you find the seed files for
bittorrent?
Iain Clark
Yep. There were some nice touches, like Angel acknowledging that
separating yourself from those nearest to you means the beast has won
(a la Beige Angel) but on the whole the episode struggled for a sense
of theme and depth that just wasn't there. The intent was there, and
the elements were all in place, but they didn't gel because the
episode added no new insights to what we've had before.
That said, a lot of the stuff with the girl in the early stages were
interesting and well done - if not desperately original. There was
potential here for a much darker, more raw and bleak episode. It
could have used another couple of rewrites, I think.
Also, I found she looked distractingly like Kim Bauer at times (which
is both a good and a bad thing <g>).
>We also have Spike, although not much progression from last week there.
> He wanders around saying 'bloody' a lot, his crossing into hell or
>whatever is getting worse but he doesn't want Angel to know about it, so
>will only talk to Fred. But I can't see him being a ghost for more than
>another episode or two, so can we just get on with it already?
Spike was definitely in a holding pattern this week. He's at his
weakest when standing on the periphery and heckling (a role Lorne gets
too often pushed into). His appearance here was just a token one, to
keep his plotline bubbling - although they did take a stab at a
thematic link with the main plot.
> The bit
>where he makes up a story about him and Wesley and Fred sees right
>through it is fun, though.
That was good. And his later scene with Fred, where the mask and the
bravado drop and we see the loneliness and fear, was excellent. Again
it pretty much retrod the same idea from last week, but it did it
well.
> Also, in my download there was a really
>awkward cut from the bad guy in mid-sentence threatening the gang to
>Spike & Fred. Did that happen for everyone?
>
Can't say I noticed.
>Then there's the ending. What the hell was that all about? Since when
>did Angel do cheesy music sequences? The gang appear to be getting
>comfortable at W&H, for absolutely no reason whatsoever - Spike's still
>a ghost, there are still questions over what happened to Gunn, their
>employees are still probably working against them, but hey, we actually
>managed to help someone, let's celebrate! The whole thing, from Angels
>talk with werewolf girl on, is horribly misjudged.
100% agreed. Even losing the backing song would have helped immensely
with this, but the ending was still massively forced and overwritten
to be "cheerful".
The theme that without a connection to those you love you "lose
yourself" links Angel, Werewolf Girl and Spike. It's not inherently
bad. And Angel pushing the others away needed to be addressed. But
the resolution is terribly trite and rushed. This element really
suffers from the season's edict that things be wrapped up in one
episode.
>Still, next weeks
>looks fun. :)
>
I only saw a split second, but I agree :-)
Iain
--
XANDER: Am I right, Giles?
GILES: I'm almost certain you're not, but to be fair, I wasn't listening.