Angel 4x20 - "Sacrifice"
Andrew Cameron
I saw the ep last night and I thought "no, I mustn't be the first yet again
to post a review"... but I've been asleep (well, on and off - I feel rough)
for nigh on 9 hours, and nobody has taken the opportunity to get ahead of
me. So, here's mine...
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Fun and interesting - most enjoyable, although Jasmine/Connor scenes are
becoming as annoying as Cordy/Connor scenes had been, but that may just be
Connor. Being annoying.
To be honest, apart from the end (which was Pylea-ish (you know, "let's go
to another dimension for a bit at the end of the season")), the Angel and
Wes' story was very much like Angel's fantasy in "Awakening"... there was
coincidental meeting of helpful creatures/people/artefacts, followed by a
simple "that's the key! Angel, you go get it!" idea. I was in a bit of a
daze when I watched it, but I seem to remember not fully understanding *how*
Jasmine's name is the key, or what the explanation behind her not being able
to choose her own name in this dimension incase it's the wrong one was all
about.
Jasmine's starting to be truly creepy now, her voice coming out of everyone
like that, and the scene at the end where every blow in the sewer was
cutting her and healing quickly - freaky and cool.
Now, this was a Ben Edlund ep - he wrote Firefly's "Jaynestown" which was
utter brilliance - and no, it wouldn't be as funny because it doesn't have
such a funny premise, but I expected it to be a bit more clever... maybe
Firefly is easier to write than Angel?
Overall - liked. Seriously looking forward to next week though - those
crab-like things are kewl.
--
Andrew Cameron
"Got my hand on my heart, I know no better location..."
Niall Harrison
> I saw the ep last night and I thought "no, I mustn't be the first yet again
> to post a review"... but I've been asleep (well, on and off - I feel rough)
> for nigh on 9 hours, and nobody has taken the opportunity to get ahead of
> me. So, here's mine...
Well, if you will get the episode 12 hours ahead of anyone else...
See, I don't think that's it, because I like Connor when he's on his own,
or with other characters. I think the problem is just that it's more of
the same; it's the same dynamic as we saw with Connor/Cordy, almost.
> To be honest, apart from the end (which was Pylea-ish (you know, "let's go
> to another dimension for a bit at the end of the season")),
Be fair, though. It looked a bit cooler than Pylea, even if the CGI
was...not perfect.
And who the hell was playing the demon in this episode? The voice was
*so* familiar.
> I seem to remember not fully understanding *how* Jasmine's name is the
> key,
There wasn't a specific reason given, but the importance of true names is
kind've an accepted genre trope.
See 'True Names' by Vernor Vinge. Just because it's ace, and beat
_Neuromancer_ to the cyberpunk punch. :)
> Jasmine's starting to be truly creepy now, her voice coming out of everyone
> like that, and the scene at the end where every blow in the sewer was
> cutting her and healing quickly - freaky and cool.
Yes. Kickass.
> Now, this was a Ben Edlund ep - he wrote Firefly's "Jaynestown" which was
> utter brilliance - and no, it wouldn't be as funny because it doesn't have
> such a funny premise, but I expected it to be a bit more clever... maybe
> Firefly is easier to write than Angel?
I think to a certain extent that's true, simply because of the difference
in age of the two shows. With _Firefly_, I'm guessing there was more room
to define the style of the show.
But yeah, liked this lots. Better than last week, which was better than
the week before. I like that we seem to be getting a serious examination
of what it means to defeat Jasmine - she *is* a being of love and light,
and what price victory if you have to sacrifice your humanity to achieve
it?
Niall
--
When memes collide.
Andrew Cameron
news:10511728...@urchin.earth.li...
> Previously, on alt.buffy.europe - Andrew Cameron wrote:
>
> > I saw the ep last night and I thought "no, I mustn't be the first yet
again
> > to post a review"... but I've been asleep (well, on and off - I feel
rough)
> > for nigh on 9 hours, and nobody has taken the opportunity to get ahead
of
> > me. So, here's mine...
>
> Well, if you will get the episode 12 hours ahead of anyone else...
Oi, I don't! Mattia had it last night too :-P
That's true; EvilCordy and Jasmine (effectively the same entity) have
similar things to say to Connor - it's maybe just that he's falling for the
whole lot that's annoying me.
> > To be honest, apart from the end (which was Pylea-ish (you know, "let's
go
> > to another dimension for a bit at the end of the season")),
>
> Be fair, though. It looked a bit cooler than Pylea, even if the CGI
> was...not perfect.
Encodes tend to bring out the worst in CGI, but this looked like bad
blue-screening to me.
> And who the hell was playing the demon in this episode? The voice was
> *so* familiar.
It was another Gollum-like idea... kinda. I didn't look very far, but I
don't know who played the demon...
> > I seem to remember not fully understanding *how* Jasmine's name is the
> > key,
>
> There wasn't a specific reason given, but the importance of true names is
> kind've an accepted genre trope.
>
> See 'True Names' by Vernor Vinge. Just because it's ace, and beat
> _Neuromancer_ to the cyberpunk punch. :)
Okay, I'll try to remember that :)
> > Now, this was a Ben Edlund ep - he wrote Firefly's "Jaynestown" which
was
> > utter brilliance - and no, it wouldn't be as funny because it doesn't
have
> > such a funny premise, but I expected it to be a bit more clever... maybe
> > Firefly is easier to write than Angel?
>
> I think to a certain extent that's true, simply because of the difference
> in age of the two shows. With _Firefly_, I'm guessing there was more room
> to define the style of the show.
This is true, but it all seems to fit *anyway*, regardless of writing - it's
just Firefly... plus there's a lot more to "Jaynestown" than there is to
"Sacrifice". Or maybe I'm just making this up because I miss Firefly like
crazy :-)
> But yeah, liked this lots. Better than last week, which was better than
> the week before. I like that we seem to be getting a serious examination
> of what it means to defeat Jasmine - she *is* a being of love and light,
Love and light and EATING PEOPLE.
> and what price victory if you have to sacrifice your humanity to achieve
> it?
I'm not getting the part where she's essentially "good".
Niall Harrison
> "Niall Harrison" <s...@tirian.magd.ox.ac.uk> wrote in message
> news:10511728...@urchin.earth.li...
>> Previously, on alt.buffy.europe - Andrew Cameron wrote:
>>
>> > I saw the ep last night and I thought "no, I mustn't be the first yet
>> > again
>> > to post a review"... but I've been asleep (well, on and off - I feel
>> > rough
>> > of me. So, here's mine...
>>
>> Well, if you will get the episode 12 hours ahead of anyone else...
>
> Oi, I don't! Mattia had it last night too :-P
And Tim. You're all bastards.
>> > Connor. Being annoying.
>>
>> See, I don't think that's it, because I like Connor when he's on his own,
>> or with other characters. I think the problem is just that it's more of
>> the same; it's the same dynamic as we saw with Connor/Cordy, almost.
>
> That's true; EvilCordy and Jasmine (effectively the same entity) have
> similar things to say to Connor - it's maybe just that he's falling for the
> whole lot that's annoying me.
It doesn't annoy me in an 'I find it implausible' sense, because I think
it's perfectly possibly; emotionally, Connor is retarded. Just like daddy
dearest. :)
The problem is that it's repetitive.
> Encodes tend to bring out the worst in CGI, but this looked like bad
> blue-screening to me.
I bow to your superior effects knowledge.
>> And who the hell was playing the demon in this episode? The voice was
>> *so* familiar.
>
> It was another Gollum-like idea... kinda.
Gotta say, that wasn't a thought that sprang to mind. 'Fredless' monster,
yes, Gollum, no.
> I didn't look very far, but I don't know who played the demon...
It was the voice. It's bugging me.
Boom, boom.
>> > such a funny premise, but I expected it to be a bit more clever... maybe
>> > Firefly is easier to write than Angel?
>>
>> I think to a certain extent that's true, simply because of the difference
>> in age of the two shows. With _Firefly_, I'm guessing there was more room
>> to define the style of the show.
>
> This is true, but it all seems to fit *anyway*, regardless of writing - it's
> just Firefly...
I think it seems to fit because the show wasn't around long enough to
settle on a definitive style, is all. I may hope that it never would have
done, of course...
>> But yeah, liked this lots. Better than last week, which was better than
>> the week before. I like that we seem to be getting a serious examination
>> of what it means to defeat Jasmine - she *is* a being of love and light,
>
> Love and light and EATING PEOPLE.
Yeah, but she's not doing it for fun and giggles. She's doing it because
she needs to. Doesn't make it right; doesn't make it evil, strictly,
either.
>> and what price victory if you have to sacrifice your humanity to achieve
>> it?
>
> I'm not getting the part where she's essentially "good".
Did I say that? I said she was a being of love and light, not that she was
good. :)
It's fighting love that's hard, because Jasmine's world *is* a tempting
one. We saw that in their reaction to losing her. To feel at peace, to
abdicate responsibility to someone or something else, to feel
loved...these are seductive things. And there comes a point where you can
see why they might start to wonder - why fight it? Sure, she eats people,
but not as many as would die if she was gone.
It's not right, but I think I understand where they're going with this.
Niall Harrison
> And who the hell was playing the demon in this episode? The voice was
> *so* familiar.
GOT IT! Weatherby!
"How's it work?"
"How d'you think? You *jab* her with it, don't you."
[later]
"A watcher, working for a vampire. It's a peversion."
Mark Evans
> Jasmine's starting to be truly creepy now, her voice coming out of everyone
> like that, and the scene at the end where every blow in the sewer was
> cutting her and healing quickly - freaky and cool.
Her message is a bit nicer than "We are The Borg, resistance is futile".
But the resulting effect isn't that different.
Dan Milburn
And I'd say 'dynamic' is a generous way of putting it. Speaking of Cordy,
what the hell happened to her?
>> I seem to remember not fully understanding *how* Jasmine's name is the
>> key,
>
> There wasn't a specific reason given, but the importance of true names
> is kind've an accepted genre trope.
>
> See 'True Names' by Vernor Vinge. Just because it's ace, and beat
> _Neuromancer_ to the cyberpunk punch. :)
Personally I was thinking of the Knights who say Ni. ;)
>> Now, this was a Ben Edlund ep - he wrote Firefly's "Jaynestown" which
>> was utter brilliance - and no, it wouldn't be as funny because it
>> doesn't have such a funny premise, but I expected it to be a bit more
>> clever... maybe Firefly is easier to write than Angel?
>
> I think to a certain extent that's true, simply because of the
> difference in age of the two shows. With _Firefly_, I'm guessing there
> was more room to define the style of the show.
>
> But yeah, liked this lots. Better than last week, which was better than
> the week before.
Last week was at least funny.
> I like that we seem to be getting a serious examination
> of what it means to defeat Jasmine - she *is* a being of love and light,
> and what price victory if you have to sacrifice your humanity to achieve
> it?
But that just came absolutely out of nowhere. Suddenly Angel and Gunn
have decided they have to become cold and detached. Those two characters
who've never been cold and detached about anything before ever. Angel
abandoning Connor just about worked, cos, hey, that should have happened a
long time before now, although I still have no idea why he beat the shit
out of him at the beginning. But then we get the Gunn/Fred scenes. What
episode was Gunn in when they killed Professor Seidel? Because the one I
saw had Fred going after vengeance, which is kind of the opposite of
leaving your emotion chip behind..
What exactly was the demon planning to do with Wesley? Cos it just let
him sit there asking incredibly leading questions and giving him all the
answers for what seemed like forever. Also, live vampire being dissected,
now *that's* gratuitous.
The kid having been got by Jasmine was painfully obvious, of course. As
was the tension when the gang realised Angel was a vampire, him leaping 20
feet straight up earlier in the episode apparently having not been a clue.
Been there, done that many many times before, was there really any point
in doing it here?
Dan
Dan Milburn
>>> But yeah, liked this lots. Better than last week, which was better
>>> than the week before. I like that we seem to be getting a serious
>>> examination of what it means to defeat Jasmine - she *is* a being of
>>> love and light,
>>
>> Love and light and EATING PEOPLE.
>
> Yeah, but she's not doing it for fun and giggles. She's doing it because
> she needs to. Doesn't make it right; doesn't make it evil, strictly,
> either.
Which also applies to vampires. When was the last time their eating
humans was portrayed as not evil?
>>> and what price victory if you have to sacrifice your humanity to
>>> achieve it?
>>
>> I'm not getting the part where she's essentially "good".
>
> Did I say that? I said she was a being of love and light, not that she
> was good. :)
Where's the love? Seriously, I'm not seeing it. Her followers love her,
in an artificially induced kind of way, but for her, that's simply a means
of control. What she apparently cares about is having them build her a
bloody great palace.
> It's fighting love that's hard, because Jasmine's world *is* a tempting
> one.
In the same way that spending the rest of your life high on heroin might
be tempting if you had enough of it.
> We saw that in their reaction to losing her. To feel at peace, to
> abdicate responsibility to someone or something else, to feel
> loved...these are seductive things.
And then you get dragged back to the real world, get all depressed and
start neglecting your little sister and shagging vampires, right?
> And there comes a point where you can see why they might start to wonder
> - why fight it?
None of them have wondered that at all, though, once they've been 'cured'.
Dan
Niall Harrison
>>> Love and light and EATING PEOPLE.
>>
>> Yeah, but she's not doing it for fun and giggles. She's doing it because
>> she needs to. Doesn't make it right; doesn't make it evil, strictly,
>> either.
>
> Which also applies to vampires. When was the last time their eating
> humans was portrayed as not evil?
Vampires aren't potrayed as evil because they eat humans; they're
portrayed as evil because they're amoral monsters who *enjoy* it.
They also have been shown to kill regularly just for the fun of it. Not
true of Jasmine.
>>>> and what price victory if you have to sacrifice your humanity to
>>>> achieve it?
>>>
>>> I'm not getting the part where she's essentially "good".
>>
>> Did I say that? I said she was a being of love and light, not that she
>> was good. :)
>
> Where's the love? Seriously, I'm not seeing it. Her followers love her,
> in an artificially induced kind of way, but for her, that's simply a means
> of control. What she apparently cares about is having them build her a
> bloody great palace.
...after she's brought about the new world order. I'm not saying she's not
vain, or that she doesn't like being in charge. I'm just saying that so
far, she hasn't been shown as trying to increase the suffering in the
world. Exactly the opposite, in fact.
Do you think she's lying to Connor? I don't. There wouldn't be any point.
She could tell him she needed him to kill himself, and he would. She could
tell him she was planning to wipe out humanity, and he'd just think it was
cool. So I think that when she says she's trying to bring the world
together, she means it. I think she's decided that humans don't deserve
their free will.
>> It's fighting love that's hard, because Jasmine's world *is* a tempting
>> one.
>
> In the same way that spending the rest of your life high on heroin might
> be tempting if you had enough of it.
Yes, exactly. Except let's hope ME don't try to spin this as a drug
metaphor, 'cause that never goes well. ;-)
>> We saw that in their reaction to losing her. To feel at peace, to
>> abdicate responsibility to someone or something else, to feel
>> loved...these are seductive things.
>
> And then you get dragged back to the real world, get all depressed and
> start neglecting your little sister and shagging vampires, right?
Pretty much. :)
>> And there comes a point where you can see why they might start to wonder
>> - why fight it?
>
> None of them have wondered that at all, though, once they've been 'cured'.
Eh? They spent much of the episode lamenting the loss of Jasmine's love,
and Fred in particular is getting very concerned about what fighting
Jasmine might do to them in terms of stripping away their humanity. It's
only a small step from there...
Niall
--
But is it art?
Dan Milburn
>>> And there comes a point where you can see why they might start to
>>> wonder - why fight it?
>>
>> None of them have wondered that at all, though, once they've been
>> 'cured'.
>
> Eh? They spent much of the episode lamenting the loss of Jasmine's love,
As Gunn said at one point, cold turkey.
> and Fred in particular is getting very concerned about what fighting
> Jasmine might do to them in terms of stripping away their humanity.
Which, as I said, came pretty much out of nowhere. Why on earth does this
fight threaten to strip away their humanity more than any other? I saw
Freds worries as more about methods than goals, though.
Dan
Tafka
"Dan Milburn" <daniel...@hotmail.com>. alt.buffy.europe. Thu, 24 Apr
2003 10:51:18 GMT:
Everytime we get, or are coming to, a Cordy scene on screen I'm sitting
here going "DIEDIEDIEDIEDIEDIE" or "EATHER!EATHER!EATHER!".
I'm hoping "the place" Jasmine wanted her was IN HER BELLY!
Although I severely doubt Cordy's been killed off simply because CC was
pregnant and unable to do anything in the episodes. I'd imagine that all
of the Cordy-bed scenes were filmed in one little block so "the place" is
convienient for her to be elsewhere.
>>> Now, this was a Ben Edlund ep - he wrote Firefly's "Jaynestown" which
>>> was utter brilliance - and no, it wouldn't be as funny because it
>>> doesn't have such a funny premise, but I expected it to be a bit more
>>> clever... maybe Firefly is easier to write than Angel?
>>
>> I think to a certain extent that's true, simply because of the
>> difference in age of the two shows. With _Firefly_, I'm guessing there
>> was more room to define the style of the show.
>>
>> But yeah, liked this lots. Better than last week, which was better than
>> the week before.
>
>Last week was at least funny.
Last week was good - I'd say about the same as this week but the creature
today was funky. _And_ they gave us some time-scale last week with Fred
having been "on the outside" for a week, at least. Shows that it is taking
/some/ time for Jasmine's "love" to spread across California.
>Angel
>abandoning Connor just about worked, cos, hey, that should have happened a
>long time before now, although I still have no idea why he beat the shit
>out of him at the beginning.
I suppose if he hadn't knocked him out then he could've tried to follow
them and would've had the scent. I guess it, mainly, was just for Angel to
appear cold & detached.
>But then we get the Gunn/Fred scenes. What
>episode was Gunn in when they killed Professor Seidel? Because the one I
>saw had Fred going after vengeance, which is kind of the opposite of
>leaving your emotion chip behind..
I still think that ME can have problems writing 'meaningful' scenes for
Fred & Gunn on their own without going back to the "as a couple"
mentality. Not going to back this up, tho, as I might be proved wrong.
>What exactly was the demon planning to do with Wesley? Cos it just let
>him sit there asking incredibly leading questions and giving him all the
>answers for what seemed like forever. Also, live vampire being dissected,
>now *that's* gratuitous.
Gratuitous, but very clever. I liked that a lot - wasn't expecting it and
it just came about quite cleverly.
>The kid having been got by Jasmine was painfully obvious, of course.
But it still freaks me seeing her talk "through" people - the kid earlier
who put the window down and talking to Gunn? Eeep.
And, at least, the lip-sync seems to be good so far :)
-Tafka-
Gotta Lotta Tafka
Jonathan Dupont
He's also been "Blue Glove #1" in Firefly, making the episode
practically a Firefly reunion...
Anyway, I thought it was an okay-ish episode, about the same as last
week, with a good end. I really hope the bad CGI isn't going to last for
long though, as it was pretty terrible.
2 more to go.
Jon
Dave Emberton
news:pan.2003.04.24....@hotmail.com...
Found that episode a little slow most the way through, but came good in the
end. Anybody else think of Half Life at the end?
> > I like that we seem to be getting a serious examination
> > of what it means to defeat Jasmine - she *is* a being of love and light,
> > and what price victory if you have to sacrifice your humanity to achieve
> > it?
>
> But that just came absolutely out of nowhere. Suddenly Angel and Gunn
> have decided they have to become cold and detached. Those two characters
> who've never been cold and detached about anything before ever. Angel
> abandoning Connor just about worked, cos, hey, that should have happened a
> long time before now, although I still have no idea why he beat the shit
> out of him at the beginning.
Agreed. Makes no sense that - why wasn't Angel escaping? He beat Connor
whilst turning his back on the advancing lynch mob with handy wooden stakes.
Doh! And after he threw Connor out the window I thought he was trying to
take him with them, but then left him.
Then there's everybody feeling guilty about Cordelia, even though they've
all hardly seen her for months, and as far as they know Cordelia is under
Jasmine's spell just like Connor so is in no actual danger.
> But then we get the Gunn/Fred scenes. What
> episode was Gunn in when they killed Professor Seidel? Because the one I
> saw had Fred going after vengeance, which is kind of the opposite of
> leaving your emotion chip behind..
No idea, that whole storyline is one of the least interesting things they've
ever done. Only stuff about past experience of Gunn and his crew gets me
reaching for the remote more ;-)
> The kid having been got by Jasmine was painfully obvious, of course. As
> was the tension when the gang realised Angel was a vampire, him leaping 20
> feet straight up earlier in the episode apparently having not been a clue.
Yep. And since when could vampires leap like that? Perhaps this a return to
the flying vampires of the Buffy movie ;-(
Dave
Andrew Hogg
>> > I like that we seem to be getting a serious examination
>> > of what it means to defeat Jasmine - she *is* a being of love and
>> > light, and what price victory if you have to sacrifice your
>> > humanity to achieve it?
>>
>> But that just came absolutely out of nowhere. Suddenly Angel and
>> Gunn have decided they have to become cold and detached. Those two
>> characters who've never been cold and detached about anything before
>> ever. Angel abandoning Connor just about worked, cos, hey, that
>> should have happened a long time before now, although I still have no
>> idea why he beat the shit out of him at the beginning.
>
> Agreed. Makes no sense that - why wasn't Angel escaping? He beat
> Connor whilst turning his back on the advancing lynch mob with handy
> wooden stakes. Doh! And after he threw Connor out the window I thought
> he was trying to take him with them, but then left him.
>
Cos it looked cool. Duh. Or just because he really wanted. I know I
would.
>
>> But then we get the Gunn/Fred scenes. What
>> episode was Gunn in when they killed Professor Seidel? Because the
>> one I saw had Fred going after vengeance, which is kind of the
>> opposite of leaving your emotion chip behind..
>
Wasn't Gunn talking post killing?
>> The kid having been got by Jasmine was painfully obvious, of course.
>> As was the tension when the gang realised Angel was a vampire, him
>> leaping 20 feet straight up earlier in the episode apparently having
>> not been a clue.
>
> Yep. And since when could vampires leap like that? Perhaps this a
> return to the flying vampires of the Buffy movie ;-(
>
Angel S1. Possibly Sonambulist, definetely Sanctuary.
Andrew Hogg
through my style over substance mindset. Angel exploding through the
door could have been done a bit better though. Nice creepiness in the
giant LA organism, and a handy plotbunny to poke our hero onto the next
level
Tan Coul
...
>> But yeah, liked this lots. Better than last week, which was better than
>> the week before. I like that we seem to be getting a serious examination
>> of what it means to defeat Jasmine - she *is* a being of love and light,
>
>Love and light and EATING PEOPLE.
and Eating People Is Wrong :-)
>
>> and what price victory if you have to sacrifice your humanity to achieve
>> it?
>
>I'm not getting the part where she's essentially "good".
Her stated aim (to Connor, who she is presumably honest with, as she
doesn't mind him watching her eat people) is to untie the world in
love, and for everyone to forget their woes. Kind of like The New
Seekers wanted, if you replace Coke (TM) with E... the end is, at
least by one definition, Good (in a God Bless Uncle Sam One Nation
Under Jasmine way) but the price of such bliss is individual freedom
and a small possibility of being eaten. There are many in society who
would consider that a price worth paying - the choice the rest of us
have is how hard to fight them, and with what weapons. If these people
are happy, do we have the right to force them not to be happy for
their own good? Probably, but as Fred and Gunn showed, there are lines
which have to be crossed or respected, and crossing enough of them
starts eating away at your own soul and individuality.
--
www.oscartelos.co.uk
The best Chester Zoo photo website ever made by a cat (probably.)
Last updated March 13th 2003
Tan Coul
wrote:
>>> And who the hell was playing the demon in this episode? The voice was
>>> *so* familiar.
>>
>> It was another Gollum-like idea... kinda.
>
>Gotta say, that wasn't a thought that sprang to mind. 'Fredless' monster,
>yes, Gollum, no.
Gotta say back, I'm with Andrew on this one - elements of the movement
and the voice were very Gollumesque
> Sure, she eats people,
>but not as many as would die if she was gone.
>
>It's not right, but I think I understand where they're going with this.
Iraq, from the above line ;-) Less glibly, both Angel and Buffy are
seeming to have rather too many RL parallels of that sort for comfort,
but Angel is for me (as a committed Buffy Uber Alles type) dealing
with them in way that is both much subtler and more challenging, and a
way that really does pose questions rather than simply threats.
Ian Shuttleworth
tan...@clara.co.uk (Tan Coul) wrote:
> >I'm not getting the part where she's essentially "good".
>
> Her stated aim (to Connor, who she is presumably honest with, as she
> doesn't mind him watching her eat people) is to untie the world in
> love, and for everyone to forget their woes.
I think this ignores or misreads a number of points. Connor was at best
semi-conscious when she went gobble, and there's no indication that he
registered what went on for what it was. On the contrary, she sent him
out of the room when she did whatever she did to Cordy.
And above all, the single most disappointingly crass aspect of this
episode for me was the gradual increase in sinister-silvery laughter
during conflict - whether it's at the conflict itself (and consequent
blood sacrifice), or that it's at the specific expense of unbelievers in
her, what it boils down to is that Jasmine is cackling evilly, only in a
more musical voice than most evil cacklers.
It's not a very inventive bit of characterisation at all.
But it pretty definitively disposes of any notion of _bona fides_ within
her own value system, except in as much as any sociopath has _bona fides_
because they sincerely believe they're apart from and above the others'
rules.
--
Ian S.
Linda
"Andrew Hogg" <andre...@andrewhoggREMOVETHIS.force9.co.uk> wrote in
message news:20030424215...@news.force9.net...
> In <3ea849e7$0$45172$65c6...@mercury.nildram.net> Dave Emberton wrote:
> > "Dan Milburn" <daniel...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:pan.2003.04.24....@hotmail.com...
> >> As was the tension when the gang realised Angel was a vampire, him
> >> leaping 20 feet straight up earlier in the episode apparently having
> >> not been a clue.
> >
> > Yep. And since when could vampires leap like that? Perhaps this a
> > return to the flying vampires of the Buffy movie ;-(
> >
> Angel S1. Possibly Sonambulist, definetely Sanctuary.
Try BtVS Season 1 episode *Angel*. In the bronze, Buffy is chasing Angel
with a crossbow and Angel leaps up on the pool table then jumps straight up
into the second story balcony. The jump was just as far as he was shown in
*Orpheus* or *Sacrifice*. He's been shown as jumping down many times but
only a few of jumping up.
--
Best regards
Linda
Mmmmmm. Angel
Neil Hopkins
Yes! I was also thinking "Clive Barker" during the disembowling scene
...
>
>> The kid having been got by Jasmine was painfully obvious, of course. As
>> was the tension when the gang realised Angel was a vampire, him leaping 20
>> feet straight up earlier in the episode apparently having not been a clue.
>
>Yep. And since when could vampires leap like that? Perhaps this a return to
>the flying vampires of the Buffy movie ;-(
Angel has always been able to leap tall buildings in a single bound
.. :-)
--
neil h.
Anya : "I provide much needed sarcasm"
Mark Evans
How do we know she dosn't enjoy eating people? It's not as if they have
any choice in the matter.
>>>>> and what price victory if you have to sacrifice your humanity to
>>>>> achieve it?
>>>>
>>>> I'm not getting the part where she's essentially "good".
>>>
>>> Did I say that? I said she was a being of love and light, not that she
>>> was good. :)
>>
>> Where's the love? Seriously, I'm not seeing it. Her followers love her,
>> in an artificially induced kind of way, but for her, that's simply a means
>> of control. What she apparently cares about is having them build her a
>> bloody great palace.
> ...after she's brought about the new world order. I'm not saying she's not
> vain, or that she doesn't like being in charge. I'm just saying that so
> far, she hasn't been shown as trying to increase the suffering in the
> world. Exactly the opposite, in fact.
> Do you think she's lying to Connor? I don't. There wouldn't be any point.
> She could tell him she needed him to kill himself, and he would. She could
> tell him she was planning to wipe out humanity, and he'd just think it was
That's would be the easiest way to take away everyone's lonliness. Same
approach Willow took...
> cool. So I think that when she says she's trying to bring the world
> together, she means it. I think she's decided that humans don't deserve
> their free will.
She's quite brutal with anyone who dosn't accept her way though.