Angel 1.22 To Shanshu in L.A. (SPOILERS)
P@rick
*** SPOILERS for Angel 1.22 To Shanshu in L.A. ***
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The big season finale! No, wait. Hold on. This was the last episode of
the season, not the season finale. And it's a step-up to next season.
This season knows no finale. Not like the ones we are used to anyway.
Angel fights the Big Bad alright. But it's one battle of many to follow.
And many battles will follow (and seasons, and episodes) before Angel
gets his reward for fulfilling his destiny. Heh, sounds a bit like a
computergame doesn't it. You have to pass many levels and fight numerous
demons to achieve your goal and save the world. Angel's reward is that
he will become human again. Here's hoping that Buffy is still around at
that time.
It's interesting though. Angel first "has to survive the coming
darkness, the apocalyptic battles, a few plagues, and some - uh,
several, - not that many - fiends that will be unleashed". There was
talk of the dark side raising armies of demons, and big battles still to
come. When Angel survives that, he will become human and therefore no
longer able to fight evil the way he does now. Does this mean that there
is an ending to the great battle between Good and Evil? Or is it just
that Angel gets his retirement. I don't think the battle between the
MFFG and the MFFE will ever be over. Angel said this himself: you can't
defeat evil for good, but you can win the everyday battles and make a
difference. Wouldn't it be ironic when on the first day of his newfound
humanity, Angel runs into a vampire?
Angel has found new causes to fight for. I got the feeling lately that
he didn't care about surviving a battle rather than winning it. He has
been alive for 240 years. I'm not saying he has a death wish, but he's
not afraid of dying either. Like Wesley noticed, Angel isn't really
attached to life. He lives to fight evil. Not really to his own benefit,
but to that of others. By helping those in need Angel tries to redeem
himself for the misery he caused as Angelus. But he doesn't have
anything to lose or to crave for. He has no needs in this life.
The events in this episode make him realise, more than ever, that he has
grown attached to Cordy and Wesley. He's afraid of losing them. He needs
them. Literally in Cordy's case because she's his link to TPTB. If he
needs a purpose to live for, it's to be able to protect his friends. And
be there for them, and enjoy their company. And now he has another
personal motive as well: his reward for his share in the Great Battle
against Evil. It makes him both more vulnerable and more motivated. From
now on it's personal.
Angel is not the only one to have his perspective on life recalibrated.
Cordy gets a big insight into human suffering when Vocah superboosts her
vision powers. A great eye-opener to Cordy, who can be pretty
self-centered at times. She won't lightly forget all the things she has
seen. The images will stick in her memory to remind her each day that
there are still people who need help. Not that the old Cordy is
completely gone (thank god!). Although I thought that her "I know what's
out there now. We have a lot of evil to fight, a lot of people to help"
was not entirely on the mark. Could've put some more emotion into that.
Last week we saw that Lindsey was really tempted by the generous job
offer from Holland. And now we know he finally chose for W&H. Does that
make his doubts in Blind Date less believable? Well, it does a bit.
Mainly because he's a hundred percent back in business this episode. Not
a trace of doubt left. Seems he's really committed to his choice.
Whereas he seemed pretty honest about his feelings of guilt for selling
his soul to the devil when he first visited Angel. Okay, so he wasn't
really clear on that choice yet. Maybe things would have been different
if Angel had been more supportive. But none of this seems to matter any
more. It feels a bit like a reset-button. On the other hand it is true
to Lindsey's drive to be the best at what he does.
I really don't think he should be alive though. Since when do you simply
survive an amputation of your underarm? Without anyone around to help
you (presumably). He should have bled to death in minutes. I don't think
he would be able to stop the bleeding himself with one hand left.
But we saw him again in the last scene. Missing one hand. Why do I get
the feeling that he will have a cool range of add-ons for that arm in
the next season?
I expected to finally see the senior partners of W&H this episode. They
sound more mysterious with every mention of them. I don't think they're
completely human, not all of them at least. Very interesting. And I'm
very glad W&H make it at least to the next season. There is still a lot
of fun to be had with them (from our p.o.v. of course).
We already knew that W&H is not your ordinary lawfirm. But now it seems
that they play an important part in the prophecies as well. They had the
scroll of Aberjian. Vocah goes to them after he is summoned, and they
are waiting for him. It all appears to be arranged. And the senior
partners are pulling the strings. Which makes it all the more intriguing
who they really are.
And the beast they raised, as was written in the prophecy of Aberjian,
is in their possession. The raising was impressive enough. I mean:
"As it was written they shall prepare the way and the very gate of hell
shall open. That which is above shall tremble (earth trembles) for that
which is below shall arise. And the world shall know the beast shall
know the world."
Sounds pretty serious to me. Whatever they are raising must be one hell
of a beast. It was slightly disappointing to find out it is Darla. I
mean, she's a real badass, but in the end nothing more than a vampire.
But it gets better. This beast was raised to bring Angel down, to tear
him from TPTB. Which underscores the important role Angel plays in the
Great Battle. Darla is just the woman for the job. The interaction
between her and Angel can get very interesting. They have enough history
together. Maybe she'll try to raise Angelus again, who knows. And I
won't be surprised if she goes after Cordy first.
I don't really remember what happened to Darla in BtVS. But she probably
got killed somewhere along the way. And now she's brought back from
hell, just like Angel was. And they are destined to fight each other.
One last thing, about Kate. It's hard to tell whether she'll be Angel's
friend or foe next season. She's being sucked in to the supernatural
world. She can't stand that there is evil going on in her city, without
knowing what exactly is going on. She doesn't tolerate that and wants to
fight it, not in the least because her father became a victim of this
evil. She hates it that Angel doesn't let her in on everything. Like
he's in a game and she's not allowed to play. But I think she realises
that he is her best link to that game. So I don't expect her to turn
completely against him.
This was a good ep, though not as good as Blind Date or Sanctuary. But
season two promises to be very cool. And we know from experience how
great a second season can be. Oh goody!
Bye, Patrick
--
Keeper of the Willowism, "And I'm eating this banana. Lunchtime be
damned!"
Keeper of the Wily Willow Charms
ThreadMaker [tm]
ReviewMeister [tm]
Jonathan Black
Yeah... I found that a bit disappointing, in the sense that it
didn't exactly sound as if it was going to be within anyone's
lifetime, as it were. At least, that's what I thought when I
heard Wesley describe it:
> Angel first "has to survive the coming darkness, the
> apocalyptic battles, a few plagues, and some - uh, several, -
> not that many - fiends that will be unleashed".
Perhaps I'm exaggerating, but this to me meant many, many years
away, certainly not within the timespan of the series. Or it it?
Perhaps this is a possibility for the final episode, say four to
six years from now?
> Angel has found new causes to fight for. I got the feeling
> lately that he didn't care about surviving a battle rather
> than winning it. He has been alive for 240 years. I'm not
> saying he has a death wish, but he's not afraid of dying
> either. Like Wesley noticed, Angel isn't really attached to
> life.
Interesting parallel with Buffy's first season finale, in which
she also learns of her own foretold death. In her case, she just
defied the prophecy, and came back to life anyway, IIRC. In
Angel's case, Wesley simply turns out to be off the mark on the
translation of that pesky word Shanshu, is it "life" or "death"
or both? Which suddenly explains the weird episode title, BTW, a
pun on the movie title "To Live and Die in LA". Priceless... :)
> Angel is not the only one to have his perspective on life
> recalibrated. Cordy gets a big insight into human suffering
> when Vocah superboosts her vision powers. A great eye-opener
> to Cordy, who can be pretty self-centered at times. She won't
> lightly forget all the things she has seen.
Yep, very nice development there. Cordelia was pretty selfish up
till now, and she was only really working at AI for the money,
such as it was. I think from now on we will see her more truly
devoted to the fight against evil, thanks to the hell she was
exposed to in that mega vision attack.
> Last week we saw that Lindsey was really tempted by the
> generous job offer from Holland. And now we know he finally
> chose for W&H. Does that make his doubts in Blind Date less
> believable? Well, it does a bit. Mainly because he's a
> hundred percent back in business this episode. Not a trace of
> doubt left. Seems he's really committed to his choice.
> Whereas he seemed pretty honest about his feelings of guilt
> for selling his soul to the devil when he first visited
> Angel. Okay, so he wasn't really clear on that choice yet.
> Maybe things would have been different if Angel had been more
> supportive. But none of this seems to matter any more. It
> feels a bit like a reset-button.
Yeah, I thought the same thing. Didn't really ring true somehow.
> [...] Whatever they are raising must be one hell of a beast.
> It was slightly disappointing to find out it is Darla. I
> mean, she's a real badass, but in the end nothing more than a
> vampire. But it gets better. This beast was raised to bring
> Angel down, to tear him from TPTB. Which underscores the
> important role Angel plays in the Great Battle. Darla is just
> the woman for the job. The interaction between her and Angel
> can get very interesting. They have enough history together.
> Maybe she'll try to raise Angelus again, who knows. And I
> won't be surprised if she goes after Cordy first. I don't
> really remember what happened to Darla in BtVS. But she
> probably got killed somewhere along the way. And now she's
> brought back from hell, just like Angel was. And they are
> destined to fight each other.
Yeah, I'd actually forgotton she was dead! [ducks] With all those
flashbacks and what have you, she seemed very much in the
picture, but I guess I'd never really thought about where she was
hanging out in the present. So the Holy Moly Darla's Back thing
didn't really work on me, my own fault completely, of course. I
guess it's a pretty kick-ass season finale cum cliffhanger
moment, but as I said in my other post, I feel Restless would be
best seen after this, instead of before. Small point.
--
J o N a T H a N
"If I ever meet those Powers That Be,
I'm gonna punch 'em in the nose!
Do you think they have a nose?"
--Cordelia, `To Shanshu in LA'
Angel
Mattia Valente
>
> "Don't believe everything you're foretold."
>
> *** SPOILERS for Angel 1.22 To Shanshu in L.A. ***
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> The big season finale! No, wait. Hold on. This was the last episode of
> the season, not the season finale. And it's a step-up to next season.
Exactly. More or less.
> This season knows no finale. Not like the ones we are used to anyway.
> Angel fights the Big Bad alright. But it's one battle of many to follow.
Well, that's two for two, then, isn't it? Of course, it's a bit of an
'apples 'n' oranges' sitaution here.
> And many battles will follow (and seasons, and episodes) before Angel
> gets his reward for fulfilling his destiny. Heh, sounds a bit like a
> computergame doesn't it.
Hehe.."Angel: coming to PlayStation this Fall!"
Seriously, why not? We've got a Buffy game. Let's make the Angel one an
RPG or something, though. Like the old Ultima stuff. Say, cross it with
Tomb Raider or something. Maybe. Or not.
> You have to pass many levels and fight numerous
> demons to achieve your goal and save the world.
Ah. So you're thinking Super Mario Brothers? Oh, wait, no
Princess...never mind then.
> Angel's reward is that
> he will become human again. Here's hoping that Buffy is still around at
> that time.
Right. That's probably not going to be the case, although I for one
wouldn't mind seeing it happen eventually. Then again, all the problems
that existed in IWRY will still exist in this scenario. Of course, this
Human thing may be a couple of centuries off, for all we know..
> It's interesting though. Angel first "has to survive the coming
> darkness, the apocalyptic battles, a few plagues, and some - uh,
> several, - not that many - fiends that will be unleashed". There was
No big deal. Dealt with a couple big scary apocalyptic thingymabobs in
the past, a few more won't be an issue..
> talk of the dark side raising armies of demons, and big battles still to
> come. When Angel survives that, he will become human and therefore no
> longer able to fight evil the way he does now. Does this mean that there
> is an ending to the great battle between Good and Evil? Or is it just
> that Angel gets his retirement. I don't think the battle between the
> MFFG and the MFFE will ever be over. Angel said this himself: you can't
> defeat evil for good, but you can win the everyday battles and make a
> difference. Wouldn't it be ironic when on the first day of his newfound
> humanity, Angel runs into a vampire?
A little bit very ironic indeed. We should all be Greek! Oh, wait, wrong
show..
Seriously, though, I'm thinking it's going to be more of a retirement
issue, in a sense, although I'm not quite sure Angel will be able to
just quit doing what he's been doing for years. That there will be a
final, ends it all battle (until the wheel of time turns again, and the
age comes once more...oh, damn, sorry. Reading Winter's Heart. Good
stuff..) Maybe he'll be a rouge demon hunter, or, who knows? Maybe a
watcher? Now THAT would be some interesting ironic perspective (and I'm
guessing he'd make a damn good watcher..he's got the years of experience
dealing with the otherworldly and various aspects of slayerhood ;-)
> Angel has found new causes to fight for. I got the feeling lately that
> he didn't care about surviving a battle rather than winning it. He has
> been alive for 240 years. I'm not saying he has a death wish, but he's
> not afraid of dying either. Like Wesley noticed, Angel isn't really
> attached to life.
Ever since he's finally accepted that he's not going to be able to be
with Buffy it's been getting worse and worse. Actually, it's what we
started the whole season with, some of the firsrt things Doyle said to
him to explain his reason for being there.
> He lives to fight evil. Not really to his own benefit,
> but to that of others. By helping those in need Angel tries to redeem
> himself for the misery he caused as Angelus. But he doesn't have
> anything to lose or to crave for. He has no needs in this life.
He did, but he can't fulfill them, because he'll go all evil again.
> The events in this episode make him realise, more than ever, that he has
> grown attached to Cordy and Wesley. He's afraid of losing them. He needs
> them. Literally in Cordy's case because she's his link to TPTB. If he
Although that's not why he's afraid of losing either of them. They have
become a colse-knit unit, a scooby gang of sorts (although broodier, and
smaller group 'n stuff..)
> needs a purpose to live for, it's to be able to protect his friends. And
> be there for them, and enjoy their company. And now he has another
> personal motive as well: his reward for his share in the Great Battle
> against Evil. It makes him both more vulnerable and more motivated. From
> now on it's personal.
Indeed it is. The prospect of becoming human is not going to be the only
motivating factor though, and I think not even the major one: he's
realized what Cordy and Wes mean to him, he's found new friends, his
life is looking a little less gloomy.
> Angel is not the only one to have his perspective on life recalibrated.
> Cordy gets a big insight into human suffering when Vocah superboosts her
> vision powers. A great eye-opener to Cordy, who can be pretty
> self-centered at times. She won't lightly forget all the things she has
> seen. The images will stick in her memory to remind her each day that
> there are still people who need help. Not that the old Cordy is
> completely gone (thank god!).
I know! As Angel said, 'I like them both'. A whole new born-again Cordy
without the trademark lack of tact, etc. etc. would in no way be as much
fun as a character. She's been growing all season, and she's a far cry
from who she used to be (it's going to be a bit of a shock watching S1
again, I think..;-), and she's not going to stop there.
> Although I thought that her "I know what's
> out there now. We have a lot of evil to fight, a lot of people to help"
> was not entirely on the mark. Could've put some more emotion into that.
Hmm..I thought it worked rather well. She's sort of shocked about it
all, can't really deal with it. The emotional bits were when she was
still in the hospital, but sort of communicative again. That was some
fine work by CC..
> Last week we saw that Lindsey was really tempted by the generous job
> offer from Holland. And now we know he finally chose for W&H. Does that
> make his doubts in Blind Date less believable? Well, it does a bit.
That's what bugged me about Blind Date. I sort of saw this kind of thing
coming.
> Mainly because he's a hundred percent back in business this episode. Not
> a trace of doubt left. Seems he's really committed to his choice.
Then again, if he goes for the W&H deal, he has to be 100% commited, or
he may as well forget it entirely
> Whereas he seemed pretty honest about his feelings of guilt for selling
> his soul to the devil when he first visited Angel. Okay, so he wasn't
> really clear on that choice yet. Maybe things would have been different
> if Angel had been more supportive.
I sincerely doubt that.
> But none of this seems to matter any
> more. It feels a bit like a reset-button. On the other hand it is true
> to Lindsey's drive to be the best at what he does.
Ture enough..it's a bit of a wasted oppurtunity, the whole ongoing
internal conflict that could've been doen, but wasn't. Oh well, we've
got enough other things to keep us busy ;-)
> I really don't think he should be alive though. Since when do you simply
> survive an amputation of your underarm? Without anyone around to help
> you (presumably). He should have bled to death in minutes. I don't think
> he would be able to stop the bleeding himself with one hand left.
Oh, you can survive an amputation without too much of a hassle, really.
Him being dead would've been odd, I think. I don't think everyone just
ran off in the end (not too far, anyway.) since the Scroll was still
inside, and there was the off chance he might get to it.
As for amputation: if you cut off someone's hand (and then some..) you
can stop the major arterial bleeding without too much trouble. There's
basically one large artery to block off, which can be done (and should
be) with one hand (pressure point in the upper arm, under the biceps,
between muscles, more or less. Press it to the bone.) When it stops
squirting you've got it (and you can feel it when it's cut off..things
you learn in first aid class, huh? ;-) plus, holding the arm up to
counteract gravity will also do a load of good. Won't stop the fact that
you need medical attention FAST though..
> But we saw him again in the last scene. Missing one hand. Why do I get
> the feeling that he will have a cool range of add-ons for that arm in
> the next season?
Because you've watched spy movies too often? Latent Initiative hangover
symptoms? Too many comic books? Range of choices..
> I expected to finally see the senior partners of W&H this episode. They
> sound more mysterious with every mention of them. I don't think they're
> completely human, not all of them at least. Very interesting. And I'm
> very glad W&H make it at least to the next season. There is still a lot
> of fun to be had with them (from our p.o.v. of course).
Right. It would've been entirely unrealistic if they were that easy to
eliminate. Seems they'll be plenty entertaining in the
future..especially with the whole Darla thing :-)
As for the Human or Not? Maybe human, maybe not, we can't really be sure
at this point. Pact with the devil might be a more approriate
description. Hope we get to meet them eventaully, though.
> We already knew that W&H is not your ordinary lawfirm. But now it seems
> that they play an important part in the prophecies as well. They had the
> scroll of Aberjian. Vocah goes to them after he is summoned, and they
> are waiting for him. It all appears to be arranged. And the senior
> partners are pulling the strings. Which makes it all the more intriguing
> who they really are.
I'm not sure the lawfirm itself is propheceid, unless Messrs. Wolfrom
and Hart aren't human, as you mentioned; by means of their ongoing
associations with the demonic world they're in a prime position to aid
evil masterminds by protecting them from the forces of government. The
Mayor in S3 did much the same, basically by being the government
himslef, made things easier.
> And the beast they raised, as was written in the prophecy of Aberjian,
> is in their possession. The raising was impressive enough. I mean:
>
> "As it was written they shall prepare the way and the very gate of hell
> shall open. That which is above shall tremble (earth trembles) for that
> which is below shall arise. And the world shall know the beast shall
> know the world."
>
> Sounds pretty serious to me. Whatever they are raising must be one hell
> of a beast. It was slightly disappointing to find out it is Darla. I
> mean, she's a real badass, but in the end nothing more than a vampire.
Indeed..but it makes it all the more intruiging; Big hell spawned
monsters we see quite often (usually sprouting out of a hellmouth, not
too exciting.) This is far weirder and more interesting for me..
> But it gets better. This beast was raised to bring Angel down, to tear
> him from TPTB. Which underscores the important role Angel plays in the
> Great Battle. Darla is just the woman for the job. The interaction
> between her and Angel can get very interesting. They have enough history
> together. Maybe she'll try to raise Angelus again, who knows. And I
> won't be surprised if she goes after Cordy first.
That's the whole mystery now: why Darla? What's so special about her?
> I don't really remember what happened to Darla in BtVS. But she probably
> got killed somewhere along the way. And now she's brought back from
> hell, just like Angel was. And they are destined to fight each other.
She died in S1, actually (IIRC, that is. Been too long. She died very
early on.) I won't say more since you haven't watched it yet, though..
> One last thing, about Kate. It's hard to tell whether she'll be Angel's
> friend or foe next season. She's being sucked in to the supernatural
> world. She can't stand that there is evil going on in her city, without
> knowing what exactly is going on. She doesn't tolerate that and wants to
> fight it, not in the least because her father became a victim of this
> evil. She hates it that Angel doesn't let her in on everything. Like
> he's in a game and she's not allowed to play. But I think she realises
> that he is her best link to that game. So I don't expect her to turn
> completely against him.
I hope not. Kate was getting on my nerves, and Angel's little comeback
was right on the mark. Deal, and move on. Thank you much.
> This was a good ep, though not as good as Blind Date or Sanctuary. But
> season two promises to be very cool. And we know from experience how
> great a second season can be. Oh goody!
I'm hoping 2 is the magic number for Angel as it seemed to be for Buffy
(and I'm hoping 5 can let 2 relive, in terms of goodness. ;-) We'll have
to wait (Boo! Hiss!) a while for that, though..
Mattia
ReplyMeister[tm]
Mattia Valente
> P@rick wrote:
> > "Don't believe everything you're foretold."
> >
> > *** SPOILERS for Angel 1.22 To Shanshu in L.A. ***
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> didn't exactly sound as if it was going to be within anyone's
> lifetime, as it were. At least, that's what I thought when I
> heard Wesley describe it:
>
> > Angel first "has to survive the coming darkness, the
> > apocalyptic battles, a few plagues, and some - uh, several, -
> > not that many - fiends that will be unleashed".
>
> Perhaps I'm exaggerating, but this to me meant many, many years
> away, certainly not within the timespan of the series. Or it it?
> Perhaps this is a possibility for the final episode, say four to
> six years from now?
It's a possibility, but I don't know if its going to happen on screen or
not. In that sense it is rather annoying, but it's good to know what
he's going to get for his troubles, at least. No more holiday in Hell
for Angel, if things happen the way we hope they'll happen.
> > Angel has found new causes to fight for. I got the feeling
> > lately that he didn't care about surviving a battle rather
> > than winning it. He has been alive for 240 years. I'm not
> > saying he has a death wish, but he's not afraid of dying
> > either. Like Wesley noticed, Angel isn't really attached to
> > life.
>
> Interesting parallel with Buffy's first season finale, in which
> she also learns of her own foretold death. In her case, she just
> defied the prophecy, and came back to life anyway, IIRC. In
> Angel's case, Wesley simply turns out to be off the mark on the
> translation of that pesky word Shanshu, is it "life" or "death"
> or both? Which suddenly explains the weird episode title, BTW, a
> pun on the movie title "To Live and Die in LA". Priceless... :)
:o) Fun stuff huh?
<Darla>
> Yeah, I'd actually forgotton she was dead! [ducks] With all those
Oh come on! She died way back in S1E7!
;-P
> flashbacks and what have you, she seemed very much in the
> picture, but I guess I'd never really thought about where she was
> hanging out in the present. So the Holy Moly Darla's Back thing
> didn't really work on me, my own fault completely, of course. I
You're a strange person, JB...but you probably already knew that, and I
think it applies to several of us, all things considered..
> guess it's a pretty kick-ass season finale cum cliffhanger
> moment, but as I said in my other post, I feel Restless would be
> best seen after this, instead of before. Small point.
Shocking. Truly shocking..OK, I'm over it.
Mattia
ReplyMeister[tm]
Arkasha
> "Don't believe everything you're foretold."
>
> *** SPOILERS for Angel 1.22 To Shanshu in L.A. ***
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> The big season finale! No, wait. Hold on. This was the last episode of
> the season, not the season finale. And it's a step-up to next season.
> This season knows no finale. Not like the ones we are used to anyway.
> Angel fights the Big Bad alright. But it's one battle of many to follow.
It gave a bit of a weird feeling at first. Like "is that it ??" when it was
over. Now that i have seen it again i like it better, cos i know what not to
expect.
<snip>
> Does this mean that there
> is an ending to the great battle between Good and Evil? Or is it just
> that Angel gets his retirement. I don't think the battle between the
> MFFG and the MFFE will ever be over. Angel said this himself: you can't
> defeat evil for good, but you can win the everyday battles and make a
> difference.
I found it very strange they choose this as his reward. He already had that
reward once and he gave it back ! [IWRY] He even turned down human-like
abilities [In the Dark] because it would distract him from his true course:
fighting evil.
And like you said, that battle will probably never totally be over.
> Angel has found new causes to fight for. I got the feeling lately that
> he didn't care about surviving a battle rather than winning it. He has
> been alive for 240 years. I'm not saying he has a death wish, but he's
> not afraid of dying either. Like Wesley noticed, Angel isn't really
> attached to life.
Same thing Doyle said 21 episodes ago, seems like al his advice didn't help
much.
> And now he has another
> personal motive as well: his reward for his share in the Great Battle
> against Evil. It makes him both more vulnerable and more motivated. From
> now on it's personal.
Like i said, he turned it down before. I don't see it as a big motivator per
se.
> Angel is not the only one to have his perspective on life recalibrated.
> Cordy gets a big insight into human suffering when Vocah superboosts her
> vision powers. A great eye-opener to Cordy, who can be pretty
> self-centered at times. She won't lightly forget all the things she has
> seen. The images will stick in her memory to remind her each day that
> there are still people who need help.
Those scene were one of the best of the ep. You could just see her lose it.
> Last week we saw that Lindsey was really tempted by the generous job
> offer from Holland. And now we know he finally chose for W&H. Does that
> make his doubts in Blind Date less believable? Well, it does a bit.
I never believed his doubts anyway.
> Mainly because he's a hundred percent back in business this episode. Not
> a trace of doubt left. Seems he's really committed to his choice.
> Whereas he seemed pretty honest about his feelings of guilt for selling
> his soul to the devil when he first visited Angel.
I guess he's just overcompensation. For his superiors to saw he has really
returned and for himself to make his choice more final so there's no way
back
<snip>
> I really don't think he should be alive though. Since when do you simply
> survive an amputation of your underarm? Without anyone around to help
> you (presumably). He should have bled to death in minutes. I don't think
> he would be able to stop the bleeding himself with one hand left.
Depends how much first aid Lindsey knows. If you know what you're doing you
can stop (or atleast slow down) a bleeding like that with one hand long
enough to get help. Just a question of where to push your fingers. He's a
lawyer, so i assume he has a mobile to get help.
<snip>
> We already knew that W&H is not your ordinary lawfirm. But now it seems
> that they play an important part in the prophecies as well. They had the
> scroll of Aberjian. Vocah goes to them after he is summoned, and they
> are waiting for him. It all appears to be arranged. And the senior
> partners are pulling the strings. Which makes it all the more intriguing
> who they really are.
Maybe is something like to watchers council but evil. Some organization that
has been around forever. Only W&H has adepted to modern times to hide it 's
more sinister elements.
<snip>
> But it gets better. This beast was raised to bring Angel down, to tear
> him from TPTB. Which underscores the important role Angel plays in the
> Great Battle. Darla is just the woman for the job. The interaction
> between her and Angel can get very interesting. They have enough history
> together. Maybe she'll try to raise Angelus again, who knows. And I
> won't be surprised if she goes after Cordy first.
Now this was a good surprise. Darla and Angel's blood connection must make
her a special weapon against him. She looked really confused in the box. i
wander how exactly W&H will try to use her. Will she cooperated with them,
or will they have to force her ? Will she go off on her own ?
Unlike BtVS S5 i'm totally completely unspoiled about S1 and hoping to keep
it that way.
> I don't really remember what happened to Darla in BtVS. But she probably
> got killed somewhere along the way. And now she's brought back from
> hell, just like Angel was. And they are destined to fight each other.
She was killed in 1.07 "Angel". She got staked by Angel.
<about Kate>
I always took Kate resentment towards Angel more as a simple Vampires killed
my father, you're a vampire. That's why she want to kill "al of his kind"
> This was a good ep, though not as good as Blind Date or Sanctuary. But
> season two promises to be very cool. And we know from experience how
> great a second season can be. Oh goody!
I liked it, but still i had some points that just didn't go down to well
with me. The whole: "a prophesy tells you're gonna die, but wait, you're not
actually gonna die die" was too reminiscent of Prophesy Girl.
Being cut of from the word was done before in City of...
The reward seemed strange as Angel has clearly indicated before that his
priorities lay elsewhere.
Arkasha
__________________________________
Requiescat in Pace:
http://www.crosswinds.net/~arkasha2312
-----------------------------------------------------------
Joost Nagtegaal
Just like 'Restless'
>> This season knows no finale. Not like the ones we are used to anyway.
>> Angel fights the Big Bad alright. But it's one battle of many to follow.
>
>Well, that's two for two, then, isn't it? Of course, it's a bit of an
>'apples 'n' oranges' sitaution here.
I still do not see the lawyers of W&H as the big bad. They might
represent it, but Angel cutting of Lindsay's hand is not really
fighting the big bad. That's like Buffy killing Luke, but not the
Master. Perhaps that'll change when we will meet the people (or
whatever they are) who are the W&H seniors.
>> And many battles will follow (and seasons, and episodes) before Angel
>> gets his reward for fulfilling his destiny. Heh, sounds a bit like a
>> computergame doesn't it.
>
>Hehe.."Angel: coming to PlayStation this Fall!"
Gonna buy a PlayStation as well? Better buy a PS2, that baby can
also handle DVD's, IIRC.
>Seriously, why not? We've got a Buffy game. Let's make the Angel one an
>RPG or something, though. Like the old Ultima stuff. Say, cross it with
>Tomb Raider or something. Maybe. Or not.
I think that is the least appropriate game to compare Angel with.
If it were Spike, however, it would be totally different. Hey,
there's an idea! A Spike game, titled Tomb Raider. Or rather Die
Hard with a Chip. Or whatever
>> You have to pass many levels and fight numerous
>> demons to achieve your goal and save the world.
>
>Ah. So you're thinking Super Mario Brothers? Oh, wait, no
>Princess...never mind then.
:-)
>> Angel's reward is that
>> he will become human again. Here's hoping that Buffy is still around at
>> that time.
>
>Right. That's probably not going to be the case, although I for one
>wouldn't mind seeing it happen eventually. Then again, all the problems
>that existed in IWRY will still exist in this scenario. Of course, this
>Human thing may be a couple of centuries off, for all we know..
In IWRY, he wanted to turn human for Buffy. Now they have come to
some kind of closure, and he has found other reasons (friends like
Wesley and Cordy).
>> It's interesting though. Angel first "has to survive the coming
>> darkness, the apocalyptic battles, a few plagues, and some - uh,
>> several, - not that many - fiends that will be unleashed". There was
>
>No big deal. Dealt with a couple big scary apocalyptic thingymabobs in
>the past, a few more won't be an issue..
Agree, see: Buffy the vampire Slayer. She has done nearly
everything Wesley says in four seasons.
>> talk of the dark side raising armies of demons, and big battles still to
>> come. When Angel survives that, he will become human and therefore no
>> longer able to fight evil the way he does now. Does this mean that there
>> is an ending to the great battle between Good and Evil? Or is it just
>> that Angel gets his retirement. I don't think the battle between the
>> MFFG and the MFFE will ever be over. Angel said this himself: you can't
>> defeat evil for good, but you can win the everyday battles and make a
>> difference. Wouldn't it be ironic when on the first day of his newfound
>> humanity, Angel runs into a vampire?
>
>A little bit very ironic indeed. We should all be Greek! Oh, wait, wrong
>show..
>
>Seriously, though, I'm thinking it's going to be more of a retirement
>issue, in a sense, although I'm not quite sure Angel will be able to
>just quit doing what he's been doing for years. That there will be a
>final, ends it all battle (until the wheel of time turns again, and the
>age comes once more...oh, damn, sorry. Reading Winter's Heart. Good
>stuff..) Maybe he'll be a rouge demon hunter, or, who knows? /
Is that a demon hunter who wears make-up, or just a typo? :-p
/Maybe a
>watcher? Now THAT would be some interesting ironic perspective (and I'm
>guessing he'd make a damn good watcher..he's got the years of experience
>dealing with the otherworldly and various aspects of slayerhood ;-)
Well, if Spike can become a watcher (at least train to become one
in Xander's dream in 'Restless'), I don't seen why Angel can't.
>> Angel has found new causes to fight for. I got the feeling lately that
>> he didn't care about surviving a battle rather than winning it. He has
>> been alive for 240 years. I'm not saying he has a death wish, but he's
>> not afraid of dying either. Like Wesley noticed, Angel isn't really
>> attached to life.
>
>Ever since he's finally accepted that he's not going to be able to be
>with Buffy it's been getting worse and worse. Actually, it's what we
>started the whole season with, some of the firsrt things Doyle said to
>him to explain his reason for being there.
I think he has realised now that there are more things to live for
than that Sunnydale Slayer
>> He lives to fight evil. Not really to his own benefit,
>> but to that of others. By helping those in need Angel tries to redeem
>> himself for the misery he caused as Angelus. But he doesn't have
>> anything to lose or to crave for. He has no needs in this life.
>
>He did, but he can't fulfill them, because he'll go all evil again.
>
>> The events in this episode make him realise, more than ever, that he has
>> grown attached to Cordy and Wesley. He's afraid of losing them. He needs
>> them. Literally in Cordy's case because she's his link to TPTB. If he
>
>Although that's not why he's afraid of losing either of them. They have
>become a colse-knit unit, a scooby gang of sorts (although broodier, and
>smaller group 'n stuff..)
Didn't someone say there weren't enough regulars on the show? I
don't think they need many more. Although I wouldn't mind seeing
kate and Lindsay more often.
>> needs a purpose to live for, it's to be able to protect his friends. And
>> be there for them, and enjoy their company. And now he has another
>> personal motive as well: his reward for his share in the Great Battle
>> against Evil. It makes him both more vulnerable and more motivated. From
>> now on it's personal.
>
>Indeed it is. The prospect of becoming human is not going to be the only
>motivating factor though, and I think not even the major one: he's
>realized what Cordy and Wes mean to him, he's found new friends, his
>life is looking a little less gloomy.
He realizes becoming human means more than being able to be with
Buffy. That's quite a new insight for him!
>> Angel is not the only one to have his perspective on life recalibrated.
>> Cordy gets a big insight into human suffering when Vocah superboosts her
>> vision powers. A great eye-opener to Cordy, who can be pretty
>> self-centered at times. She won't lightly forget all the things she has
>> seen. The images will stick in her memory to remind her each day that
>> there are still people who need help. Not that the old Cordy is
>> completely gone (thank god!).
>
>I know! As Angel said, 'I like them both'. A whole new born-again Cordy
>without the trademark lack of tact, etc. etc. would in no way be as much
>fun as a character. She's been growing all season, and she's a far cry
>from who she used to be (it's going to be a bit of a shock watching S1
>again, I think..;-), and she's not going to stop there.
She went from a 1-dimensional stereotype to a 3-dimensional person,
with all her flaws and qualities.
>> Although I thought that her "I know what's
>> out there now. We have a lot of evil to fight, a lot of people to help"
>> was not entirely on the mark. Could've put some more emotion into that.
>
>Hmm..I thought it worked rather well. She's sort of shocked about it
>all, can't really deal with it. The emotional bits were when she was
>still in the hospital, but sort of communicative again. That was some
>fine work by CC..
Major impressive stuff. Emmy-worthy, methinks
>> Last week we saw that Lindsey was really tempted by the generous job
>> offer from Holland. And now we know he finally chose for W&H. Does that
>> make his doubts in Blind Date less believable? Well, it does a bit.
>
>That's what bugged me about Blind Date. I sort of saw this kind of thing
>coming.
I didn't. I thought he would help fight W&H in a big, spectacular
seasons finale. Boy, was I wrong there :-o
>> Mainly because he's a hundred percent back in business this episode. Not
>> a trace of doubt left. Seems he's really committed to his choice.
>
>Then again, if he goes for the W&H deal, he has to be 100% commited, or
>he may as well forget it entirely
Certainly with the mindreaders 'n stuff
>> Whereas he seemed pretty honest about his feelings of guilt for selling
>> his soul to the devil when he first visited Angel. Okay, so he wasn't
>> really clear on that choice yet. Maybe things would have been different
>> if Angel had been more supportive.
>
>I sincerely doubt that.
Ditto
>> But none of this seems to matter any
>> more. It feels a bit like a reset-button. On the other hand it is true
>> to Lindsey's drive to be the best at what he does.
>
>Ture enough..it's a bit of a wasted oppurtunity, the whole ongoing
>internal conflict that could've been doen, but wasn't. Oh well, we've
>got enough other things to keep us busy ;-)
>
>> I really don't think he should be alive though. Since when do you simply
>> survive an amputation of your underarm? Without anyone around to help
>> you (presumably). He should have bled to death in minutes. I don't think
>> he would be able to stop the bleeding himself with one hand left.
>
>Oh, you can survive an amputation without too much of a hassle, really.
<snip>
>As for amputation: if you cut off someone's hand (and then some..) you
>can stop the major arterial bleeding without too much trouble. There's
>basically one large artery to block off, which can be done (and should
>be) with one hand (pressure point in the upper arm, under the biceps,
>between muscles, more or less. Press it to the bone.) When it stops
>squirting you've got it (and you can feel it when it's cut off..things
>you learn in first aid class, huh? ;-) plus, holding the arm up to
>counteract gravity will also do a load of good. Won't stop the fact that
>you need medical attention FAST though..
Thanks, we needed a doctor's opinion about that. Seriously!
>> But we saw him again in the last scene. Missing one hand. Why do I get
>> the feeling that he will have a cool range of add-ons for that arm in
>> the next season?
>
>Because you've watched spy movies too often? Latent Initiative hangover
>symptoms? Too many comic books? Range of choices..
Just the memory of Adam's suddenly appearing machinegun is enough,
I guess.
<snip W&H>
>> And the beast they raised, as was written in the prophecy of Aberjian,
>> is in their possession. The raising was impressive enough. I mean:
>>
>> "As it was written they shall prepare the way and the very gate of hell
>> shall open. That which is above shall tremble (earth trembles) for that
>> which is below shall arise. And the world shall know the beast shall
>> know the world."
>>
>> Sounds pretty serious to me. Whatever they are raising must be one hell
>> of a beast. It was slightly disappointing to find out it is Darla. I
>> mean, she's a real badass, but in the end nothing more than a vampire.
>
>Indeed..but it makes it all the more intruiging; Big hell spawned
>monsters we see quite often (usually sprouting out of a hellmouth, not
>too exciting.) This is far weirder and more interesting for me..
And she knows Angel better than anyone else (except for Buffy, of
course). She knows his strong and weak points, and will probably
use that knowledge.
>> But it gets better. This beast was raised to bring Angel down, to tear
>> him from TPTB. Which underscores the important role Angel plays in the
>> Great Battle. Darla is just the woman for the job. The interaction
>> between her and Angel can get very interesting. They have enough history
>> together. Maybe she'll try to raise Angelus again, who knows. And I
>> won't be surprised if she goes after Cordy first.
>
>That's the whole mystery now: why Darla? What's so special about her?
Like I said, she knows him. Besides, she definately wants revenge
for Angel dusting her. (BTW, how would you translate 'to dust a
vampire' in NL? "Een vampier verstoffen"?)
>> I don't really remember what happened to Darla in BtVS. But she probably
>> got killed somewhere along the way. And now she's brought back from
>> hell, just like Angel was. And they are destined to fight each other.
>
>She died in S1, actually (IIRC, that is. Been too long. She died very
>early on.) I won't say more since you haven't watched it yet, though..
>
>> One last thing, about Kate. It's hard to tell whether she'll be Angel's
>> friend or foe next season. She's being sucked in to the supernatural
>> world. She can't stand that there is evil going on in her city, without
>> knowing what exactly is going on. She doesn't tolerate that and wants to
>> fight it, not in the least because her father became a victim of this
>> evil. She hates it that Angel doesn't let her in on everything. Like
>> he's in a game and she's not allowed to play. But I think she realises
>> that he is her best link to that game. So I don't expect her to turn
>> completely against him.
>
>I hope not. Kate was getting on my nerves, and Angel's little comeback
>was right on the mark. Deal, and move on. Thank you much.
Major agreeage.
>> This was a good ep, though not as good as Blind Date or Sanctuary. But
>> season two promises to be very cool. And we know from experience how
>> great a second season can be. Oh goody!
>
>I'm hoping 2 is the magic number for Angel as it seemed to be for Buffy
>(and I'm hoping 5 can let 2 relive, in terms of goodness. ;-) We'll have
>to wait (Boo! Hiss!) a while for that, though..
I just hope our expectations won't grow to high...
JN
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Notice: Spelling mistakes left in for people who need to correct others to make their life fulfilled.
Joost Nagtegaal
Well, he *does* have a lot of time, since he is not really getting
older.
>> Angel first "has to survive the coming darkness, the
>> apocalyptic battles, a few plagues, and some - uh, several, -
>> not that many - fiends that will be unleashed".
>
>Perhaps I'm exaggerating, but this to me meant many, many years
>away, certainly not within the timespan of the series. Or it it?
>Perhaps this is a possibility for the final episode, say four to
>six years from now?
Well, if you consider how many times Buffy has saved the earth and
humanity,fought the First Evil, hell, invulnerable vamps, death
etc, I think Wesley's list of things to come is about four seasons
long ;-)
>> Angel has found new causes to fight for. I got the feeling
>> lately that he didn't care about surviving a battle rather
>> than winning it. He has been alive for 240 years. I'm not
>> saying he has a death wish, but he's not afraid of dying
>> either. Like Wesley noticed, Angel isn't really attached to
>> life.
>
>Interesting parallel with Buffy's first season finale, in which
>she also learns of her own foretold death. In her case, she just
>defied the prophecy, and came back to life anyway, IIRC. In
>Angel's case, Wesley simply turns out to be off the mark on the
>translation of that pesky word Shanshu, is it "life" or "death"
>or both? Which suddenly explains the weird episode title, BTW, a
>pun on the movie title "To Live and Die in LA". Priceless... :)
I didn't get that until now! Very good indeed!
Wow, I can't believe you, the 5x5-initiator, just said that! That's
like swearing in church! I was 5x5, but watched TSILA before
Restless, since there were no crossovers anymore. Great feeling the
5x5-master agrees I did the right thing! :-P
> "If I ever meet those Powers That Be,
> I'm gonna punch 'em in the nose!
> Do you think they have a nose?"
>
> --Cordelia, `To Shanshu in LA'
> Angel
:-)))
Joost Nagtegaal
<arkas...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>"P@rick" schreef
>> "Don't believe everything you're foretold."
But I was foretold this ep. wasn't a real spectacular season's
finale, and that turned out to be true...
Well, in IWRY, he did turn human, but he could't spend his life
with Buffy. So he chose not to stay that way, since she was the
main (only?) reason for him to want to turn human. He was still to
connected to her at that time. And in ITD, the invulnerability
wasn't something he had earned, just luck. He still wouldn't have
made amends for his Angelus-time.
>> Angel has found new causes to fight for. I got the feeling lately that
>> he didn't care about surviving a battle rather than winning it. He has
>> been alive for 240 years. I'm not saying he has a death wish, but he's
>> not afraid of dying either. Like Wesley noticed, Angel isn't really
>> attached to life.
>
>Same thing Doyle said 21 episodes ago, seems like al his advice didn't help
>much.
Not for long, anyway(s)
>> And now he has another
>> personal motive as well: his reward for his share in the Great Battle
>> against Evil. It makes him both more vulnerable and more motivated. From
>> now on it's personal.
>
>Like i said, he turned it down before. I don't see it as a big motivator per
>se.
Like I said, those times were different ;-)
>> Angel is not the only one to have his perspective on life recalibrated.
>> Cordy gets a big insight into human suffering when Vocah superboosts her
>> vision powers. A great eye-opener to Cordy, who can be pretty
>> self-centered at times. She won't lightly forget all the things she has
>> seen. The images will stick in her memory to remind her each day that
>> there are still people who need help.
>
>Those scene were one of the best of the ep. You could just see her lose it.
Agreeage! I've hardly ever seen Cordy so ... so... well, emotional
is to weak. I can't think of the right word now.
>> Last week we saw that Lindsey was really tempted by the generous job
>> offer from Holland. And now we know he finally chose for W&H. Does that
>> make his doubts in Blind Date less believable? Well, it does a bit.
>
>I never believed his doubts anyway.
>
>> Mainly because he's a hundred percent back in business this episode. Not
>> a trace of doubt left. Seems he's really committed to his choice.
>> Whereas he seemed pretty honest about his feelings of guilt for selling
>> his soul to the devil when he first visited Angel.
>
>I guess he's just overcompensation. For his superiors to saw he has really
>returned and for himself to make his choice more final so there's no way
>back
Well, he has to show his superiors that he *really* is back, and
that there is no chance he is turning to the other side again. But
I do not consider it impossible he will help Angel on some
occasions. But perhaps I've seen to many bad movies in which that
happens.
But if they brought her back from the same place Angel was between
BtVS S2 & S3, she will have to recover. And that might take some
time and a lot of effort, considering she might not have the <quote
Giles> "extraordinary will and character" </quote Giles> Angel
proved to have.
>Now this was a good surprise. Darla and Angel's blood connection must make
>her a special weapon against him. She looked really confused in the box. i
>wander how exactly W&H will try to use her. Will she cooperated with them,
>or will they have to force her ? Will she go off on her own ?
>Unlike BtVS S5 i'm totally completely unspoiled about S1 and hoping to keep
>it that way.
Me 2.
>> I don't really remember what happened to Darla in BtVS. But she probably
>> got killed somewhere along the way. And now she's brought back from
>> hell, just like Angel was. And they are destined to fight each other.
>
>She was killed in 1.07 "Angel". She got staked by Angel.
>
><about Kate>
>
>I always took Kate resentment towards Angel more as a simple Vampires killed
>my father, you're a vampire. That's why she want to kill "al of his kind"
I think it's more than that. She feels he betrayed her by
conceiling his true nature. That, and that there are things 'out
there' she doesn't want to know but has to, make that she raects
the only way she has been taught: get 'em!
>> This was a good ep, though not as good as Blind Date or Sanctuary. But
>> season two promises to be very cool. And we know from experience how
>> great a second season can be. Oh goody!
It was a bit Restlessy. Like George said about that ep, it was more
of an prologue than an eiplogue
>I liked it, but still i had some points that just didn't go down to well
>with me. The whole: "a prophesy tells you're gonna die, but wait, you're not
>actually gonna die die" was too reminiscent of Prophesy Girl.
That is the main (in fact the only) problem I had whith this ep.
Every source says Shanshu means 'death', but in one obscure source
it turns out to mean 'life' as well. It's even less believable than
Prophecy Girl, in which the prophecy (Buffy dies) comes true. She
just got reanimated.
>Being cut of from the word was done before in City of...
>The reward seemed strange as Angel has clearly indicated before that his
>priorities lay elsewhere.
Well, if TPTB think he has made up for his evil deeds, he has
really deserved it. Perhaps then he will stop feeling the enormous
guilt he has. That will be the biggest reward, methinks
JN
.
Mattia Valente
Yeah. But Restless was better (and that's a rare occurrence this
season..)
> >> This season knows no finale. Not like the ones we are used to anyway.
> >> Angel fights the Big Bad alright. But it's one battle of many to follow.
> >
> > Well, that's two for two, then, isn't it? Of course, it's a bit of an
> > 'apples 'n' oranges' sitaution here.
>
> I still do not see the lawyers of W&H as the big bad. They might
Well, they're the closes thing to a big bad we've had this season,
anyway.
> represent it, but Angel cutting of Lindsay's hand is not really
> fighting the big bad. That's like Buffy killing Luke, but not the
> Master. Perhaps that'll change when we will meet the people (or
> whatever they are) who are the W&H seniors.
True enough. I for one am curious. Looks like they're going to play a
larger role in S2, them having Darla captive and all that..(what for?
Who knows.)
> >> And many battles will follow (and seasons, and episodes) before Angel
> >> gets his reward for fulfilling his destiny. Heh, sounds a bit like a
> >> computergame doesn't it.
> >
> >Hehe.."Angel: coming to PlayStation this Fall!"
>
> Gonna buy a PlayStation as well? Better buy a PS2, that baby can
> also handle DVD's, IIRC.
No PlayStation for me. Anyway, the PS2 is supposed to handle DVDs, but
it's unlikely it can be made regionfree easily (Seeing how Sony machines
are expensive to chip. Checked recently, and even their basic models,
like the DV335 (something like that..) cost around 400fl to chip!
Ridiculous!)
> >Seriously, why not? We've got a Buffy game. Let's make the Angel one an
> >RPG or something, though. Like the old Ultima stuff. Say, cross it with
> >Tomb Raider or something. Maybe. Or not.
>
> I think that is the least appropriate game to compare Angel with.
Why? Go around, sove mysteries, then fight the demon!
> If it were Spike, however, it would be totally different. Hey,
> there's an idea! A Spike game, titled Tomb Raider. Or rather Die
> Hard with a Chip. Or whatever
Hehehe...I was saying cross Tomb Raider technology with oldstyle RPGs.
> >> You have to pass many levels and fight numerous
> >> demons to achieve your goal and save the world.
> >
> >Ah. So you're thinking Super Mario Brothers? Oh, wait, no
> >Princess...never mind then.
>
> :-)
But wait! There *is* a princess! And interdimensional one at that! Gosh
darn, I think we're on to something!
> >Right. That's probably not going to be the case, although I for one
> >wouldn't mind seeing it happen eventually. Then again, all the problems
> >that existed in IWRY will still exist in this scenario. Of course, this
> >Human thing may be a couple of centuries off, for all we know..
>
> In IWRY, he wanted to turn human for Buffy. Now they have come to
> some kind of closure, and he has found other reasons (friends like
> Wesley and Cordy).
Well, I don't expect the closure could've lasted for any period of time
if they stayed around each other..
> >No big deal. Dealt with a couple big scary apocalyptic thingymabobs in
> >the past, a few more won't be an issue..
>
> Agree, see: Buffy the vampire Slayer. She has done nearly
> everything Wesley says in four seasons.
True enough. Although this season's enemy was a government created
Cybernetic Demonoid, but that's sort of beside the point, isn't it? Oh,
and in S2, it was really Angel she was fighting ;-)
> > Maybe he'll be a rouge demon hunter, or, who knows? /
>
> Is that a demon hunter who wears make-up, or just a typo? :-p
Read your own sig file sometime..
<ducks>
Yes, typo. I type too fast and I don't proofread. That's the secret to
topping the charts (aw, damn. Now I gave it away...;-)
> >Maybe a
> >watcher? Now THAT would be some interesting ironic perspective (and I'm
> >guessing he'd make a damn good watcher..he's got the years of experience
> >dealing with the otherworldly and various aspects of slayerhood ;-)
>
> Well, if Spike can become a watcher (at least train to become one
> in Xander's dream in 'Restless'), I don't seen why Angel can't.
Uh..no. Spike cannot become a watcher, whatever Xander seems to think.
Angel, on the other hand, is much better suited to the job. Plus, he
looks good in a suit. Spike looks strange in a suit. Could be the
Platinum Blond hair, though..
> >Ever since he's finally accepted that he's not going to be able to be
> >with Buffy it's been getting worse and worse. Actually, it's what we
> >started the whole season with, some of the firsrt things Doyle said to
> >him to explain his reason for being there.
>
> I think he has realised now that there are more things to live for
> than that Sunnydale Slayer
Well, he's finally found more things to live for. It took him a while,
though. I mean, Cordelia and Wesley weren't exactly bestest buddies with
him back in Sunnydale (although Cordy did try to come on to him in the
early days..without knowing he was a vamp..hehehehe..)
> >Although that's not why he's afraid of losing either of them. They have
> >become a colse-knit unit, a scooby gang of sorts (although broodier, and
> >smaller group 'n stuff..)
>
> Didn't someone say there weren't enough regulars on the show? I
> don't think they need many more. Although I wouldn't mind seeing
> kate and Lindsay more often.
They may or may not need more. It's still rather scantily populated, as
regulars go. Wes, Angel and Cordy are the only real regulars, Lindsay
and Kate are recurring characters, but Gunn might well cross into
regular territory. That could work. Kate, no, she's a cop, Lindsay's one
of the regular baddies, but that's not exactly the kind of regs I was
referring too. He might get whacked eventually.
> >Indeed it is. The prospect of becoming human is not going to be the only
> >motivating factor though, and I think not even the major one: he's
> >realized what Cordy and Wes mean to him, he's found new friends, his
> >life is looking a little less gloomy.
>
> He realizes becoming human means more than being able to be with
> Buffy. That's quite a new insight for him!
Yup.
> >I know! As Angel said, 'I like them both'. A whole new born-again Cordy
> >without the trademark lack of tact, etc. etc. would in no way be as much
> >fun as a character. She's been growing all season, and she's a far cry
> >from who she used to be (it's going to be a bit of a shock watching S1
> >again, I think..;-), and she's not going to stop there.
>
> She went from a 1-dimensional stereotype to a 3-dimensional person,
> with all her flaws and qualities.
Indeed she did. And we like her that way.
> >Hmm..I thought it worked rather well. She's sort of shocked about it
> >all, can't really deal with it. The emotional bits were when she was
> >still in the hospital, but sort of communicative again. That was some
> >fine work by CC..
>
> Major impressive stuff. Emmy-worthy, methinks
Well, I somehow doubt either show is ever going to get the appreciation
it really deserves, actually. Keeps getting skipped over. I mean, it was
good stuff, but we've seen at least it's equal if not better in Buffy
(season 2, mainly..)
> >> Last week we saw that Lindsey was really tempted by the generous job
> >> offer from Holland. And now we know he finally chose for W&H. Does that
> >> make his doubts in Blind Date less believable? Well, it does a bit.
> >
> >That's what bugged me about Blind Date. I sort of saw this kind of thing
> >coming.
>
> I didn't. I thought he would help fight W&H in a big, spectacular
> seasons finale. Boy, was I wrong there :-o
I'm too much of a cyninc, I guess.
> >Then again, if he goes for the W&H deal, he has to be 100% commited, or
> >he may as well forget it entirely
>
> Certainly with the mindreaders 'n stuff
Exactly.
> >As for amputation: if you cut off someone's hand (and then some..) you
> >can stop the major arterial bleeding without too much trouble. There's
> >basically one large artery to block off, which can be done (and should
> >be) with one hand (pressure point in the upper arm, under the biceps,
> >between muscles, more or less. Press it to the bone.) When it stops
> >squirting you've got it (and you can feel it when it's cut off..things
> >you learn in first aid class, huh? ;-) plus, holding the arm up to
> >counteract gravity will also do a load of good. Won't stop the fact that
> >you need medical attention FAST though..
>
> Thanks, we needed a doctor's opinion about that. Seriously!
I'm a med student, Arkasha was a med student. Is that good enough for
you? Losing an arm will not get you killed by bleeding to death that
fast. It's dangerous, but Lindsay was in good shape, young man, he can
deal with it.
> >Because you've watched spy movies too often? Latent Initiative hangover
> >symptoms? Too many comic books? Range of choices..
>
> Just the memory of Adam's suddenly appearing machinegun is enough,
> I guess.
;-)
> Notice: Spelling mistakes left in for people who need to correct others to make their life fulfilled.
Mattia
ReplyMeister[tm]
P@rick
> "P@rick" schreef
> >
> > *** SPOILERS for Angel 1.22 To Shanshu in L.A. ***
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> >
[Angel will become human again]
> I found it very strange they choose this as his reward. He already had
that
> reward once and he gave it back ! [IWRY] He even turned down
human-like
> abilities [In the Dark] because it would distract him from his true
course:
> fighting evil./
That's all because he felt that he hadn't earned his redemption yet. I
assume that, when he is made human again, TPTB think that Angel has
redeemed himself. Big question is: will Angel feel that way too? If he
doesn't, and he turns human, he will spend the rest of his life in
misery. Of course he could join the Red Cross or some other organisation
to help people in need and continue to earn his redemption.
[Lindsey returns to W&H]
> I never believed his doubts anyway.
I believed him in Blind Date. He really couldn't take it anymore. And he
put his life on the line helping Angel steal those files. He knew about
the mindreaders and he didn't know how Holland would react. In fact,
Holland reminded him that W&H were picking the winners from the losers
at that time. Not the time to stand up against your employer I would
think. Not if you pursue a carreer with W&H.
But when Lindsey is rewarded for his rebellion, he starts doubting
again. That's not in check with his earlier decision to quit W&H. Now
all of the sudden a carreer with W&H *is* important to him.
You could say that the situation had changed. He learned the succesful
way to make promotion is to follow your own way and not be afraid to
take risks. I think this appeals to him. He can take matters into his
own hands more. And he probably feels that he's granted a second chance
instead of being shot through the head. But still, I wonder what he will
do the next time some children are about to be killed. Ask for a raise
to ease his guilt? He won't accept the project with both hands, that's
for sure.
[Darla]
> Now this was a good surprise. Darla and Angel's blood connection must
make
> her a special weapon against him. She looked really confused in the
box. i
> wander how exactly W&H will try to use her. Will she cooperated with
them,
> or will they have to force her ? Will she go off on her own ?
It will be fun. Like Angel once said, vampires aren't notoriously
reliable. So she could very well turn against them. But she doesn't have
a good reason to do that yet. And I think she has some pretty good
reasons to accept her assignment to kill Angel. Although she may not
play it by their rules.
Bye, Patrick
P@rick
> "P@rick" wrote:
> >
> >
> > *** SPOILERS for Angel 1.22 To Shanshu in L.A. ***
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> > *
> >
> > darkness, the apocalyptic battles, a few plagues, and some - uh,
> > several, - not that many - fiends that will be unleashed". There was
>
> No big deal. Dealt with a couple big scary apocalyptic thingymabobs in
> the past, a few more won't be an issue..
Except for the fact that he can die in battle at every given moment.
[Angel's retirement]
> Maybe a watcher? Now THAT would be some interesting ironic perspective
> (and I'm guessing he'd make a damn good watcher..he's got the years of
> experience dealing with the otherworldly and various aspects of
slayerhood ;-)
He'd make a great watcher. And the fact that the Slayer and her Watcher
aren't supposed to get romantically involved makes for some great
relationship angst as well.
>
> > I really don't think he should be alive though. Since when do you
simply
> > survive an amputation of your underarm? Without anyone around to
help
> > you (presumably). He should have bled to death in minutes. I don't
think
> > he would be able to stop the bleeding himself with one hand left.
>
> Oh, you can survive an amputation without too much of a hassle,
really.
<snip explanation>
Medical possibility aside, how probable is it that he would know exactly
how to deal with the bleeding? He just lost his underarm, a rather
traumatic experience aside from the pain. We saw him holding his arm,
instead of pressing any blood vessel. Shouldn't blood be pouring out of
his wound?
But I guess that he can survive it in an ideal situation. And since this
is a tv show, we must assume that the situation is ideal.
> > But we saw him again in the last scene. Missing one hand. Why do I
get
> > the feeling that he will have a cool range of add-ons for that arm
in
> > the next season?
>
> Because you've watched spy movies too often? Latent Initiative
hangover
> symptoms? Too many comic books? Range of choices..
Or maybe I watched too many kitchen appliance commercials on home
shopping channels. "This fantastic machine now comes with over 25
different add-on tools!"
> > I expected to finally see the senior partners of W&H this episode.
They
> > sound more mysterious with every mention of them. I don't think
they're
> > completely human, not all of them at least. Very interesting. And
I'm
> > very glad W&H make it at least to the next season. There is still a
lot
> > of fun to be had with them (from our p.o.v. of course).
>
> Right. It would've been entirely unrealistic if they were that easy to
> eliminate.
Talk about unrealistic. How about that bomb in Angel's cabinet? We have
Vocah, Warrior of the Underworld who grows scythes out of his hand and
maggots out of his nose. And what does he use to eliminate Wesley (and
quite possibly Angel)? A bomb.
I don't like it when underworldly types like Vocah start using worldy
weapons such as bombs. If it is that simple, why not use a car bomb on
Angel's car. Or why not wait until Angel returns and detonate the bomb
when he is at home? If you really think about it, killing Angel is very
easy. Especially when you have recources like W&H do. They go through
all this trouble sending demon-assassins at him, while they could simply
lure him into a trap and blow him back to hell. But in order to enjoy
the show, I don't want to think about how easy it is to kill Angel. And
I don't want to be reminded by the show itself either.
Bye, Patrick
Mattia Valente
> Mattia Valente wrote:.
> > "P@rick" wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > > *
> > >
> > > darkness, the apocalyptic battles, a few plagues, and some - uh,
> > > several, - not that many - fiends that will be unleashed". There was
> >
> > No big deal. Dealt with a couple big scary apocalyptic thingymabobs in
> > the past, a few more won't be an issue..
>
Details Schmetails..
;-P
> [Angel's retirement]
> > Maybe a watcher? Now THAT would be some interesting ironic perspective
> > (and I'm guessing he'd make a damn good watcher..he's got the years of
> > experience dealing with the otherworldly and various aspects of slayerhood ;-)
>
> He'd make a great watcher. And the fact that the Slayer and her Watcher
> aren't supposed to get romantically involved makes for some great
> relationship angst as well.
Uh...I didn't say he had to get romatically involved with the Slayer,
did I? He'll start ageing normally again at that point, remember? None
of that eternal youth and beauty stuff anymore ;-)
> > > I really don't think he should be alive though. Since when do you simply
> > > survive an amputation of your underarm? Without anyone around to help
> > > you (presumably). He should have bled to death in minutes. I don't think
> > > he would be able to stop the bleeding himself with one hand left.
> >
> > Oh, you can survive an amputation without too much of a hassle, really.
>
> <snip explanation>
>
> Medical possibility aside, how probable is it that he would know exactly
> how to deal with the bleeding? He just lost his underarm, a rather
> traumatic experience aside from the pain. We saw him holding his arm,
> instead of pressing any blood vessel. Shouldn't blood be pouring out of
> his wound?
Maybe, maybe not. He wouldn't bleed to death immediately. Just holding
it above heart level should take care of a good amount of the situation.
Especially after he's lost some blood and the pressure drops ;-P
Seriously though, it's not unthinkable that he's followed a first aid
course or that someone hung around to see what would happen.
> But I guess that he can survive it in an ideal situation. And since this
> is a tv show, we must assume that the situation is ideal.
Right. Speaking of silly amputations, watched Idle Hands
yesterday...THAT was ridiculous.
> > Because you've watched spy movies too often? Latent Initiative hangover
> > symptoms? Too many comic books? Range of choices..
>
> Or maybe I watched too many kitchen appliance commercials on home
> shopping channels. "This fantastic machine now comes with over 25
> different add-on tools!"
You WATCH those things? Why? You have a DVD player now (me too! Same as
yours! Whee!!)
> > Right. It would've been entirely unrealistic if they were that easy to
> > eliminate.
>
> Talk about unrealistic. How about that bomb in Angel's cabinet? We have
> Vocah, Warrior of the Underworld who grows scythes out of his hand and
> maggots out of his nose. And what does he use to eliminate Wesley (and
> quite possibly Angel)? A bomb.
Maybe it was an unholy handgrenage? ;-) On a more somber note, what's
going to happen with the office next season? Will they be able to repare
and restore all the damage done?
> I don't like it when underworldly types like Vocah start using worldy
> weapons such as bombs. If it is that simple, why not use a car bomb on
> Angel's car. Or why not wait until Angel returns and detonate the bomb
> when he is at home? If you really think about it, killing Angel is very
> easy. Especially when you have recources like W&H do. They go through
> all this trouble sending demon-assassins at him, while they could simply
> lure him into a trap and blow him back to hell. But in order to enjoy
> the show, I don't want to think about how easy it is to kill Angel. And
> I don't want to be reminded by the show itself either.
Right. Shut up Patrick. You're putting all these *wrong* thoughts in my
head now..
;-)
Mattia
DVD players rock...
P@rick
> "P@rick" wrote:
> > Mattia Valente wrote:.
> > > "P@rick" wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > *
> > > > *
> > > > *
> > > > *
> > > > *
> > > > *
> > > > *
> > > > *
> > > > *
> > > > *
> > > > *
> > > > *
> > > > *
> > > > *
> > > > *
> > > > *
> > > > *
> > > > *
> > > >
> >
have
> > Vocah, Warrior of the Underworld who grows scythes out of his hand
and
> > maggots out of his nose. And what does he use to eliminate Wesley
(and
> > quite possibly Angel)? A bomb.
>
> Maybe it was an unholy handgrenage? ;-) On a more somber note, what's
> going to happen with the office next season? Will they be able to
repare
> and restore all the damage done?
Not much point to that. That building is written off after that
explosion and the subsequent fire. Maybe they'll move in with Gunn.
Okay, not very likely (Cordy would *die*), but maybe for the time being.
And what about all the books Angel had, although I think he lent most of
them from a library. But as it stands now, he has lost all his
possessions. Including all his jars of Nancy-Boy hairgel and his
collection of long dark coats.
> Mattia
> DVD players rock...
If you put the right DVD's or cd's in them, yes.
Bye, Patrick