[META] Spoiler Policy
P@rick
déją vu. But since a lot of people were on holiday, the discussion didn't
harvest a lot of different opinions. That's why I'm starting this thread
again (see sig), but I'm also expanding the topic a bit. I will make some
proposals, and then everyone can put in their two (or more) cents.
First question is: what is the dividing line between spoiler and non-spoiler
material? In other words, which eps can we discuss or mention freely,
without using spoiler protection. I want to make a division between
'protected' epsiodes, which fall under spoiler protection, and 'spoilerfree'
episodes.
From the postings I've seen about airing schedules in different countries,
it seems to me that the BBC2 schedule (UK) is the one to use as a guideline.
This schedule is lagging behind most. The next ep, that will be aired on
Wednesday 13th of August, is season 3 episode 17 "Enemies". I believe that a
significant amount of readers in this NG are watching Buffy eps for the
first time on BBC2.
I propose to put the dividing line at the episode BBC2 airs on Wednesday. So
all episodes which have already aired in the current BBC2 schedule
(including season 1 and 2) are spoilerfree, and can be freely discussed and
mentioned. All episodes which have not yet aired on BBC2 (including season 4
*and* 5) are protected, and discussing or mentioning them requires the use
of spoiler protection.
Now the BBC shows a censored version of BtVS on Wednesday, and an uncut
repeat on Friday. Some viewers wait until Friday to watch the episode. This
is their own decision, but they have the possibility to watch it on
Wednesday. So when they insist on skipping the Wednesday airing, it's their
own responsibility to avoid postings about that episode until Friday.
The second question is: what is exactly a spoiler? I propose that a spoiler
is any information about protected episodes that could ruin the element of
surprise of an episode. This is a pretty 'open' definition. But I think most
people can determine what is a spoiler and what is not. Of course we are
talking about substantial spoilers here. Mentioning who is going to die in a
protected episode is obviously a big spoiler. So is giving away information
about story developments. But mentioning that Buffy wears a pyama with
rabbit print in a certain ep is, although technically a spoiler, no big
deal. And mentioning the name of a character who is new in season 4, but not
relating it to any event or episode is not much of a spoiler either IMO.
I just want to leave it to people's common sense to decide what they can say
without spoiler protection, and what not. An occasional slip-up can occur,
so there's no need to get nasty when that happens. Let's keep things
peaceful.
The third question is: what kind of spoiler protection to use? For protected
episodes I propose:
- mentioning the episode season, number and name and the word 'spoiler' in
the message header
- doing the same in the message body, and adding a minimum of 15 lines of
spoilerspace (no blank lines)
For BBC2 eps that have aired on Wednesday, but not on Friday I propose
mentioning the episode season, name and number in the message header. In
that way people get the chance to skip these messages until Friday.
These are my propositions concerning spoiler policy.
<VampWillow> Questions, comments? </VampWillow>
Bye, Patrick
--
Keeper of the Willowism, "And I'm eating this banana. Lunchtime be damned!"
Protector of Willow and Oz waking up together
Keeper of the Wily Willow Charms
ThreadMaker [tm]
Jonathan Black
<snip>
> These are my propositions concerning spoiler policy.
Thank you, P@rick.
> <VampWillow> Questions, comments? </VampWillow>
I'm racking my brain here, but no, I think that basically just
made a lot of sense and I don't have much to add at the moment.
--
J o N a T H a N
Mattia Valente
>
> This topic has been discussed recently. So for some people this feels like a
> déją vu. But since a lot of people were on holiday, the discussion didn't
> harvest a lot of different opinions. That's why I'm starting this thread
> again (see sig), but I'm also expanding the topic a bit. I will make some
> proposals, and then everyone can put in their two (or more) cents.
OK, but a first skim reveals no big stickling points...
> From the postings I've seen about airing schedules in different countries,
> it seems to me that the BBC2 schedule (UK) is the one to use as a guideline.
> This schedule is lagging behind most. The next ep, that will be aired on
> Wednesday 13th of August, is season 3 episode 17 "Enemies". I believe that a
> significant amount of readers in this NG are watching Buffy eps for the
> first time on BBC2.
Well, a few anyway. Enough to warrant spoilerspace, and I'm guessing
that there are a fair number of Lurkers from the UK who are SKY-less..
> I propose to put the dividing line at the episode BBC2 airs on Wednesday. So
> all episodes which have already aired in the current BBC2 schedule
> (including season 1 and 2) are spoilerfree, and can be freely discussed and
> mentioned. All episodes which have not yet aired on BBC2 (including season 4
> *and* 5) are protected, and discussing or mentioning them requires the use
> of spoiler protection.
Yes! Exactly! No halfway measures. This gets my vote.
> Now the BBC shows a censored version of BtVS on Wednesday, and an uncut
> repeat on Friday. Some viewers wait until Friday to watch the episode. This
> is their own decision, but they have the possibility to watch it on
> Wednesday. So when they insist on skipping the Wednesday airing, it's their
> own responsibility to avoid postings about that episode until Friday.
Right on. One thought here: do you think anyone who hasn't already seen
the eps purposefully waits for the repeat and doesn't watch the
wednesday night showing? For me thats unfathomable (of course, I tend to
watch both airings if at all possible ;-))
> talking about substantial spoilers here. Mentioning who is going to die in a
> protected episode is obviously a big spoiler. So is giving away information
> about story developments. But mentioning that Buffy wears a pyama with
> rabbit print in a certain ep is, although technically a spoiler, no big
> deal. And mentioning the name of a character who is new in season 4, but not
> relating it to any event or episode is not much of a spoiler either IMO.
Granted, but you have to be sure nothing about the character is given
away.
> I just want to leave it to people's common sense to decide what they can say
> without spoiler protection, and what not. An occasional slip-up can occur,
> so there's no need to get nasty when that happens. Let's keep things
> peaceful.
When were we ever violent? <innocent look>
But I agree, anyway.
> The third question is: what kind of spoiler protection to use? For protected
> episodes I propose:
> - mentioning the episode season, number and name and the word 'spoiler' in
> the message header
An Show name, don't forget. Or at least Season Number and Episode name
(if you don't happen to know the episode number.)
So, ideally a format like
"The Ring" Spoilers, Angel S1E16
or
Angel S1E16 "The Ring" [SPOILERS]
or...you get the point.
> - doing the same in the message body, and adding a minimum of 15 lines of
> spoilerspace (no blank lines)
Indeed. Is 15 enough for everyone (it is for me, anyway..)?
> For BBC2 eps that have aired on Wednesday, but not on Friday I propose
> mentioning the episode season, name and number in the message header. In
> that way people get the chance to skip these messages until Friday.
I'd say that as a matter of decency you should mention at least the
season (and if possible the ep number) that ep you're discussing is in.
Not a binding rule as such, but a matter of a.b.etiquette, so to speak.
> These are my propositions concerning spoiler policy.
I like them...
> <VampWillow> Questions, comments? </VampWillow>
Angel Spoilers: How to deal with those? Can we quite using spoilers when
it starts airing in the UK (on terrestrial channels)? How do we figure
that out anyway? Or just keep everything spoilerspaced? I'm guessing
option 2 for now...
Other than that, nothing else to say.
Mattia
ReplyMeister[tm]
Yorrit
"P@rick" <P.J.Mee...@students.fss.uu.nl> wrote:
<SNIP> All the proposals
> These are my propositions concerning spoiler policy.
Yeah, sounds good. I'm down with it.
Yorrit
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Saskia
"P@rick" wrote :
> an excellent spoiler policy snipped
> These are my propositions concerning spoiler policy.
>
> <VampWillow> Questions, comments? </VampWillow>
Nope. I agree. Well done!
--
Saskia
busybee
absolutely reasonable and well organized
full approval from busybee (even if only posting from time to time:-)
Jonathan Black
> "P@rick" wrote:
>
> > Now the BBC shows a censored version of BtVS on Wednesday,
> > and an uncut repeat on Friday. Some viewers wait until Friday
> > to watch the episode. This is their own decision, but they
> > have the possibility to watch it on Wednesday. So when they
> > insist on skipping the Wednesday airing, it's their own
> > responsibility to avoid postings about that episode until
> > Friday.
>
> Right on. One thought here: do you think anyone who hasn't
> already seen the eps purposefully waits for the repeat and
> doesn't watch the wednesday night showing? For me thats
> unfathomable (of course, I tend to watch both airings if at all
> possible ;-))
Well, I don't know what I'd do if I was in the position of the
BBC eps being new for me. Your first viewing of an ep is pretty
important and I can imagine people not wanting their first
viewing to be a cut version. Let's face it, sometimes the cuts
are pretty bad (personally I think any cut no matter how small is
one too many), and if the eps are new to you, you've no way of
knowing beforehand how bad they're going to be, so you might just
decide to just forget about the Wednesday showings entirely and
wait the extra two days. After all, it's only two days. Even now,
with the eps not being new to me, I tend to shy away from the Wed
showing. I think if they were new to me, I might indeed just
avoid them altogether. Difficult to say. No offence to anyone who
enjoys the Wed showings of course.
> Angel Spoilers: How to deal with those? Can we quite using
> spoilers when it starts airing in the UK (on terrestrial
> channels)? How do we figure that out anyway? Or just keep
> everything spoilerspaced? I'm guessing option 2 for now...
More difficult to draw a line for Angel spoilers. You could say
go by the UK terrestrial airings, same as with BtVS, but that may
not be as meaningful, seeing as, unlike the BBC, Channel 4 (the
terrestrial station with the right for Angel in the UK) is
basically only available in the UK itself. Furthermore, as far as
I know, it is still unclear when they are going to start airing
the show. It was going to be the end this month, in a 6pm
timeslot, but a while ago I heard that it didn't appear in the
Autumn schedule anymore and may have been postponed until
sometime in the new year...
Willem Tel
>- doing the same in the message body, and adding a minimum of 15 lines of
>spoilerspace (no blank lines)
15 lines is not enough. Make that at least 25. Most people already use
that kind of spoiler space anyway.
--
Willem Tel
(remove both b's in email before responding)
Saskia
Jonathan Black schreef:
> Well, I don't know what I'd do if I was in the position of the
> BBC eps being new for me. Your first viewing of an ep is pretty
> important and I can imagine people not wanting their first
> viewing to be a cut version. Let's face it, sometimes the cuts
> are pretty bad
Oh no! I couldn't possibly wait till Friday! I definitely watch the
Wednesday airing and sometimes I notice where a cut has been made, but
that will only make me excited about Friday's airing, wondering what
new stuff I get to see :) And of course, it's great to watch an ep
once, talk and read about it the next day and then watch it again to
see the things you've missed. Like the Princess Margareth thing,
remember I said I had missed that on Wednesday? So I looked out for it
on Friday.
<sigh> I'm lost, aren't I?
--
Saskia
P@rick
> "P@rick" wrote:
> > Now the BBC shows a censored version of BtVS on Wednesday, and an uncut
> > repeat on Friday. Some viewers wait until Friday to watch the episode.
This
> > is their own decision, but they have the possibility to watch it on
> > Wednesday. So when they insist on skipping the Wednesday airing, it's
their
> > own responsibility to avoid postings about that episode until Friday.
>
> Right on. One thought here: do you think anyone who hasn't already seen
> the eps purposefully waits for the repeat and doesn't watch the
> wednesday night showing
Good point. I guess there are only a few people who do this. So people who
do this: make some noise!
> > For BBC2 eps that have aired on Wednesday, but not on Friday I propose
> > mentioning the episode season, name and number in the message header. In
> > that way people get the chance to skip these messages until Friday.
>
> I'd say that as a matter of decency you should mention at least the
> season (and if possible the ep number) that ep you're discussing is in.
> Not a binding rule as such, but a matter of a.b.etiquette, so to speak.
When it turns out no one watches an ep for the first time on Friday (as you
sort of like suggested above) we could skip this rule altogether. Or keep it
as a matter of decency, like you said.
> Angel Spoilers: How to deal with those? Can we quite using spoilers when
> it starts airing in the UK (on terrestrial channels)? How do we figure
> that out anyway? Or just keep everything spoilerspaced? I'm guessing
> option 2 for now...
Ooo yes, another good point. This is more difficult, because we have no idea
in which countries Angel is broadcasted, and which episode each country is
at. In the UK, Angel will be broadcasted by C4 if I'm not mistaken. Maybe we
should follow that schedule?
Bye, Patrick
Jonathan Black
> Jonathan Black schreef:
>
> > [...] Your first viewing of an ep is pretty important and I
> > can imagine people not wanting their first viewing to be a
> > cut version. Let's face it, sometimes the cuts are pretty bad
>
> Oh no! I couldn't possibly wait till Friday! I definitely watch
> the Wednesday airing and sometimes I notice where a cut has
> been made, but that will only make me excited about Friday's
> airing, wondering what new stuff I get to see :) And of course,
> it's great to watch an ep once, talk and read about it the next
> day and then watch it again to see the things you've missed.
O yeah, that's certainly a plus. I'm all for two showings, it's
just the cuts I have a problem with, and is sucks that the
premier showing is the cut one. It would be better if e.g. they
had the Wed showing be a cut rerun of the *previous* Friday night
showing, which would then be the premier. Fat chance of them
doing that, I guess.
> <sigh> I'm lost, aren't I?
Far from it, my dear. Six months ago, you were lost, but I fixed
that by Siring you. ;-))
--
J o N a T H a N
"Welcome to my world."
--Darla, `The Prodigal'
Angel
Fuzzy
P@rick wrote in message <8n76ol$sa8$1...@news.surfnet.nl>...
>Willem Tel wrote:
>
>> 15 lines is not enough. Make that at least 25. Most people already
use
>> that kind of spoiler space anyway.
>
people
>who scroll down the message fast. In that respect, it doesn't really
matter
>whether you use 15 or 25 lines (I tested it). I'm all for a minimum
number
>of spoilerspace lines. But I'm not going to count them every time. 15
lines
>seems enough to me. I don't think people are doing much harm when
they use
>less than 20 or so.
Yes, I think 15 lines is enough too. As you said, it's only a warning
sign after which you don't read if you don't want to be spoiled. It's
not meant to prevent every single line of the spoiler from appearing
on a screen.
I agree with the rest of your original post as well.
Sierk
P@rick
> <sigh> I'm lost, aren't I?
No, you're on the right way! Watching every Buffy ep you can get your eyes
on, even if it's the same ep within a couple of days is a sure sign of
addiction. And that's a good thing Saskia. You see the light? Go to the
light. All the answers you are looking for are in the light...
Bye, Patrick
haven't watched Poltergeist recently, honest
P@rick
> 15 lines is not enough. Make that at least 25. Most people already use
> that kind of spoiler space anyway.
I know they do. I think spoilerspace is more of a visual warning for people
who scroll down the message fast. In that respect, it doesn't really matter
whether you use 15 or 25 lines (I tested it). I'm all for a minimum number
of spoilerspace lines. But I'm not going to count them every time. 15 lines
seems enough to me. I don't think people are doing much harm when they use
less than 20 or so.
Bye, Patrick
george van hal
My whole take on this thing is: I basically agree with P@trick on
almost all counts. Not too sure about the wednesday line though. I mean
we'll probably all want to complain about the cuts made in an ep, when
writing about iot. Those cuts themselves have then not been aired and
thus are spoilers (really minor ones most of the time, I'll grant you
that). Plus I can imagine people waiting 'till the firday repeats to
watch 'em. Why not use friday as the line?
So, here's what I propose:
I urge everyone who lurks/reads/posts in this group and who watchers
the friday nights repeat for the first time to now let themselves be
heard.
Now if we get some replies to that, we'll use the firday repeats as the
line. If not, we'll just use the original wednesday airings. Everyone
agree??
As for AngelL Using the UK terestrial schedule seems to be ok, as long
as were sure they're the farthest back of all european countries that
air Buffy. If they're not I propose to just use spoilerspace for Angel
anyways (which we're probably gonna do, because we're discussing dutch
eps and not recieving c4. If we want to discuss eps after they've aired
on c4, which is highly unlikely, we can allways see what we'll do
then..), regardless...
See Ya,
George
Jonathan Black
> More difficult to draw a line for Angel spoilers. You could say
> go by the UK terrestrial airings, same as with BtVS, but that
> may not be as meaningful, seeing as, unlike the BBC, Channel 4
> (the terrestrial station with the right for Angel in the UK) is
> basically only available in the UK itself. Furthermore, as far
> as I know, it is still unclear when they are going to start
> airing the show. It was going to be the end this month, in a
> 6pm timeslot, but a while ago I heard that it didn't appear in
> the Autumn schedule anymore and may have been postponed until
> sometime in the new year...
[replying to my own post here]
Sorry, if our reason for using the BBC schedule as the spoiler
boundary for BtVS is because we assume them to be the farthest
back, then sure, we should probably go by C4 for Angel if they
are the farthest back too. For some reason my brain was thinking
that perhaps the fact that we get BBC in places like NL and
Belgium but not C4 had something to do with it, but I guess
that's basically irrelevant.
Of couse, this whole thing is assuming we have piles of Sky-less
UK lurkers and people from Joss knows what other countries to
accommodate. Personally, I've never really seen them, but then I
guess that's why they're called lurkers, isn't it?
--
J o N a T H a N
"I lurk."
--Angel, `What's My Line? Part I'
Buffy the Vampire Slayer
P@rick
> My whole take on this thing is: I basically agree with P@trick on
> almost all counts. Not too sure about the wednesday line though. I mean
> we'll probably all want to complain about the cuts made in an ep, when
> writing about iot. Those cuts themselves have then not been aired and
> thus are spoilers (really minor ones most of the time, I'll grant you
> that). Plus I can imagine people waiting 'till the firday repeats to
> watch 'em. Why not use friday as the line?
Because after the Wednesday airing, a lot of people want to discuss the ep.
And having to use and scroll through spoilerspace all the time is a bit of a
pain. Like I said, people who want to watch the ep for the first time on
Friday choose to do so. But they *can* watch it on Wednesday. So I believe
it's their own responsibility to avoid the messages about that ep until
Friday. In order to do that, the episode name and number must be mentioned
in the message header.
And like you said, the cuts are mostly minor spoilers, and wouldn't spoil
any element of surprise when watching the ep again on Friday. So
spoilerspace is too heavy a measure for the cuts.
> So, here's what I propose:
> I urge everyone who lurks/reads/posts in this group and who watchers
> the friday nights repeat for the first time to now let themselves be
> heard.
I would like to hear them as well.
> Now if we get some replies to that, we'll use the firday repeats as the
> line. If not, we'll just use the original wednesday airings. Everyone
> agree??
I don't. See above.
> As for AngelL Using the UK terestrial schedule seems to be ok, as long
> as were sure they're the farthest back of all european countries that
> air Buffy./
Well, that's the problem really. How can we be sure? People reading this NG
will have to speak up again.
/If they're not I propose to just use spoilerspace for Angel
> anyways (which we're probably gonna do, because we're discussing dutch
> eps and not recieving c4. If we want to discuss eps after they've aired
> on c4, which is highly unlikely, we can allways see what we'll do
> then..), regardless...
Normally we use spoilerspace for eps that have aired in Holland. So for the
remainder of S1 and coming S2 that won't change. But it can always happen
that someone mentions (not really discusses) parts of S1 Angel eps that have
already aired in Holland. We need to know whether to use spoilerspace when
that happens, or not. So we have to decide on a dividing line, just like
with Buffy. Right now, the schedule for Angel on C4 is not clear yet (I
believe).
Bye, Patrick
george van hal
Yep. I in fact, agree with that. Wednesday as a deviding line.....
<SNIP>
> > As for AngelL Using the UK terestrial schedule seems to be ok, as
long
> > as were sure they're the farthest back of all european countries
that
> > air Buffy./
>
> Well, that's the problem really. How can we be sure? People reading
this NG
> will have to speak up again.
Indeed. Where's c4 now with Angel? Has it started yet on there? If we
just don't know any better I guess we can just use the c4 schedule as a
deviding line, untill someone speaks up.....
Jonathan Black
> Where's c4 now with Angel? Has it started yet on there? If we
> just don't know any better I guess we can just use the c4
> schedule as a deviding line, untill someone speaks up.....
Angel hasn't started yet on C4 and I believe it is kind of up in
the air as to when exactly it will. It was originally announced
to be starting at the end of this month but the last I heard
there was talk of it having disappeared from the schedule and
perhaps being put back till January or even May 2001.
--
J o N a T H a N
Ronald: "You're working late."
Angel: "Down side of being global."
--`I Fall to Pieces'
Angel
george van hal
<Pine.LNX.3.96.100081...@deadlock.et.tudelft.nl>,
Jonathan Black <jona...@ch.twi.tudelft.nl> wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, george van hal wrote:
>
> > Where's c4 now with Angel? Has it started yet on there? If we
> > just don't know any better I guess we can just use the c4
> > schedule as a deviding line, untill someone speaks up.....
>
> Angel hasn't started yet on C4 and I believe it is kind of up in
> the air as to when exactly it will. It was originally announced
> to be starting at the end of this month but the last I heard
> there was talk of it having disappeared from the schedule and
> perhaps being put back till January or even May 2001.
Well in that case....I guess we can be fairly certain c4 will be the
farthest back. So I guess we'll use that as the deviding line, right?
See Ya,
George
Who's now going off to bed. Gonna reply to the messages I didn't reply
to yet in the Long Rambling Thread sometime tomorrow....
*poof*