Angel 4x19 - "The Magic Bullet"
Andrew Cameron
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So, consider my hiney well and truly rocked. That was much better than last
week's offering - more Jeff Bell goodness. A relatively funny episode too -
"And tonight, the part of Judas Iscariot..." and Angel and Connor singing
"Mandy"... erm, I mean "Jasmine", class.
We also get a couple of meanings of "magic bullet", sadly one of them being
the name of a shop... oh well, this is Jeff Bell, writer of "That Vision
Thing" ;-)
Thankfully, we didn't get Fred wandering around for too long, and where we
did it was interesting, if slightly pointless. Oh, and would you ever have
guessed, there's a "cure". Sadly, again it's the blood thing - is ME trying
to retcon "The Gift" through Angel now? (joking)
Anyway, I liked, oooh big surprise, Connor not affected, but seriously, what
trouble is he compared to Angel, Gunn and Wes? Jasmine's not exactly
getting with the fighting. I guess we find out next week...
--
Andrew Cameron
"Got my hand on my heart, I know no better location..."
Gunnar Harboe
Although I didn't like many of the things this episode did, I must admit
it did them well. And I'm prepared to give Jeff Bell credit for that.
It's not like I'm prejudiced or anything, after all.
OK, so Jasmine is weally, twuelly evil after after all. Honestly, if you
can't put your trust in the good intentions of a mind-controlling
rotting corpse, then what's the world coming to? So much for hoping...
Is it just me, or was that the motel Guy Pearce stayed at in Memento?
Also, the hilly road Fred walks along looks an awful lot like the one
Teri Bauer follows after failing to bump off her daughter in '24'. Maybe
there's some kind of Lonely, Hunted Women's Refuge at the top of that
hill? It wouldn't be *the* Mulholland Drive, would it?
I caught the (speculation?) spoiler about the blood, and bought it
straight away, so some of the suspense/mystery of this ep went wasted on
me. Still, stylishly done. That slo-mo shot of the bullet is quite
possibly the first ever non-gratuitous bullet-time effect on the show.
> A relatively funny episode too -
>"And tonight, the part of Judas Iscariot..." and Angel and Connor singing
>"Mandy"... erm, I mean "Jasmine", class.
"There was no second gunman. Oswald acted alone." :-O
>Anyway, I liked, oooh big surprise, Connor not affected, but seriously, what
>trouble is he compared to Angel, Gunn and Wes? Jasmine's not exactly
>getting with the fighting. I guess we find out next week...
Or maybe he's affected, but just doesn't care?
That would leave open the opportunity for more "Will Connor Choose Good
or Evil in the End?" tension. Oh joy.
Linda
"Gunnar Harboe" <gh...@cam.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:d93s9vkgd8u3r3hl5...@4ax.com...
Here's another speculation. Alas, it's not mine but one I found on ATA.
Cordy was under Jasmine's thrall, she's her mother and they were sharing
blood. Connor is Jasmine's father and so they also share blood. Therefore
Connor is immune to the mixing of his and Jasmine's blood. After all, he is
her father.
It's an interesting theory. Although I'm a little leery of it.
--
Best regards
Linda
Mmmmmm. Angel
Andrew Cameron
That's what I'm saying - the "apparently nice demon actually turning out to
be evil" was a really bad idea that didn't add to the episode in any way,
but the way Jeff Bell wrote it (or maybe the way it was filmed, acted, lit,
etc) made it seem not so bad, and almost like it fitted.
> OK, so Jasmine is weally, twuelly evil after after all. Honestly, if you
> can't put your trust in the good intentions of a mind-controlling
> rotting corpse, then what's the world coming to? So much for hoping...
Hehehehe...
> Is it just me, or was that the motel Guy Pearce stayed at in Memento?
I think so, although the steps seemed to be facing the wrong direction, but
that could just be camera angles.
> Also, the hilly road Fred walks along looks an awful lot like the one
> Teri Bauer follows after failing to bump off her daughter in '24'. Maybe
> there's some kind of Lonely, Hunted Women's Refuge at the top of that
> hill? It wouldn't be *the* Mulholland Drive, would it?
Now you're just making stuff up! There was no second gunman, remember? ;-)
> I caught the (speculation?) spoiler about the blood, and bought it
> straight away, so some of the suspense/mystery of this ep went wasted on
> me. Still, stylishly done. That slo-mo shot of the bullet is quite
> possibly the first ever non-gratuitous bullet-time effect on the show.
It was ever-so-slightly gratuitous, but it worked, despite the huge leap of
faith I take in believing that Fred could pull off a shot like that.
> >Anyway, I liked, oooh big surprise, Connor not affected, but seriously,
what
> >trouble is he compared to Angel, Gunn and Wes? Jasmine's not exactly
> >getting with the fighting. I guess we find out next week...
>
> Or maybe he's affected, but just doesn't care?
Good point - that would be possibly be better from a story PoV, but from a
dialogue PoV it just means more annoying Connor rebelling against his daddy.
We haven't had enough of *that*, have we?
> That would leave open the opportunity for more "Will Connor Choose Good
> or Evil in the End?" tension. Oh joy.
Eeeeeeeeeeexactly.
Jonathan Dupont
Hmmm... I'm going to have to go completely the opposite way. This was
way, way too slow with far too many distractions that were completely
irrelevant (I mean honestly, what was that demon for?!?). Bullet time
should have been at the end of the first act break, Connor's kidnapping
the second. Angel has been very this season at fast arc, with no time
wasted, but they seem to have lost the gift.
> OK, so Jasmine is weally, twuelly evil after after all. Honestly, if
> you can't put your trust in the good intentions of a mind-controlling
> rotting corpse, then what's the world coming to? So much for hoping...
Uh, maybe. It's still not certain either way, surely? We already knew
that she accepted the need for sacrifices for the greater good, and what
we saw in this episode may just be a continuation of that. Certainly she
seems to have brought an awful lot of happiness to LA, and not so much
bad.
(I also realised the other day that if she is a former Power, then Angel
this season finally has a theme, if not a particularly subtle one).
> I caught the (speculation?) spoiler about the blood, and bought it
> straight away, so some of the suspense/mystery of this ep went wasted
> on me. Still, stylishly done. That slo-mo shot of the bullet is quite
> possibly the first ever non-gratuitous bullet-time effect on the show.
Heh. I thought it was the first gratuitous. Previously it was cool, this
time it just deadened the shock. Much better to just have a BANG and
then a reaction shot. It wasn't like anyone moved about in the bullet
time.
>> A relatively funny episode too -
>>"And tonight, the part of Judas Iscariot..." and Angel and Connor
>>singing "Mandy"... erm, I mean "Jasmine", class.
>
> "There was no second gunman. Oswald acted alone." :-O
It was trying too hard though. Also, they had to stick in a five minute
open mic scene just for that Angel/Connor shot (good though it was).
>>Anyway, I liked, oooh big surprise, Connor not affected, but
>>seriously, what trouble is he compared to Angel, Gunn and Wes?
>>Jasmine's not exactly getting with the fighting. I guess we find out
>>next week...
>
> Or maybe he's affected, but just doesn't care?
>
> That would leave open the opportunity for more "Will Connor Choose
> Good or Evil in the End?" tension. Oh joy.
I think he's genuinely not affected, although it was pretty obvious from
the moment Connor was kidnapped that he wasn't going to be. Not the
biggest surprise, but then that's not necessarily a bad thing. Ah well -
I suppose they actually do something and fight the bad guy (/good girl,
or whatever) next week. New writer too, which might add some interest.
Jon
Tafka
"Andrew Cameron" <use...@tags2k.co.uk>. alt.buffy.europe. Wed, 16 Apr 2003
23:05:18 +0100:
I don't know about "much better" but it certainly was good all the same.
It was better and felt quicker, imo.
Typical Angel though - questions answered (Why Fred? Why do people get
taken upstairs? Why Why Why?) and then more questions asked (Why not
Connor? Why does she eat these people? etc).
> A relatively funny episode too -
>"And tonight, the part of Judas Iscariot..." and Angel and Connor singing
>"Mandy"... erm, I mean "Jasmine", class.
See people? Trailers aren't that bad - the trailer just showed Fred/Angel
kissing, mass people, a couple of sinister poses and A&C singing :)
>We also get a couple of meanings of "magic bullet", sadly one of them being
>the name of a shop... oh well, this is Jeff Bell, writer of "That Vision
>Thing" ;-)
And the one-shooter - magic bullet theory and all.
>Thankfully, we didn't get Fred wandering around for too long, and where we
>did it was interesting, if slightly pointless. Oh, and would you ever have
>guessed, there's a "cure". Sadly, again it's the blood thing - is ME trying
>to retcon "The Gift" through Angel now? (joking)
Not sure how Fred got into the sewer so quickly but it was preferable to
the people walking around the whole time.
This episode was good in terms of Jasmine's development because it's only
within this episode that she learns about her blood "curing" people and
how she senses (as opposed to just seeing) what her 'minions' do (the fire
from the man in flames. That was a good shot, imo). She doesn't know all
the tricks and the explanations for how and what she is so presumably -
unless Connor and her engage in some tests - she doesn't know all of her
weaknessess. This isn't some "all-powerful" Glory type God, but a very
fragile and vulnerable one.
Her main defence is the trust and loyalty of others, not force. Innocent
people could die in her defence if there's a big fight as they jump in for
her - we've seen no attacking "power" of her own (apart from glowing green
and eating people) and it took her from getting shot by Fred until she was
about to eat to heal herself - perhaps healing drains her so much that she
needs to eat right afterwards to recover her energy? We've still no idea
if she's human/demon/'mystical' whatever.
>Anyway, I liked, oooh big surprise, Connor not affected, but seriously, what
>trouble is he compared to Angel, Gunn and Wes? Jasmine's not exactly
>getting with the fighting. I guess we find out next week...
Oh, I knew Connor wasn't going to be affected as soon as he was the last
to be "fixed" (one thing - Angel and Fred needed to look AT Jasmine before
they realised it. How come the others can just be blood brothers and
they're fixed?). Still, like father (Angelus at the end of "Calvary") like
Son in his "fake appearance" acting, I guess.
There was no chance Connor would be sorted as he's been the main annoyance
in terms of stupidness all season and to have him doing the right thing at
the current time would just be ... painful.
-Tafka-
You shoot me in a dream, you'd better wake up and apologize.
Tafka
2003 07:04:56 GMT:
*snip*
Linda,
Please stay and post to ABE more often - it's getting harder to scroll
through all the crap in ATA and get to the posts of the more 'rational'
people (although I'm not sure about your reaction to last week :)... but
I'm too lazy to put spoiler space in so I'll talk no more).
-Tafka-
I have two words that are going to make all your troubles go away.
"Miniature." "Golf."
Linda
"Tafka" <tafka...@nospam-spamfree.boltfree.net> wrote in message
news:op9t9vsj704cus1cu...@4ax.com...
> I want names, I want places, I want dates.
> "Linda" <lindaDE...@susieword.com>. alt.buffy.europe. Thu, 17 Apr
> 2003 07:04:56 GMT:
>
> *snip*
>
> Linda,
>
> Please stay and post to ABE more often - it's getting harder to scroll
> through all the crap in ATA and get to the posts of the more 'rational'
> people (although I'm not sure about your reaction to last week :)... but
> I'm too lazy to put spoiler space in so I'll talk no more).
I wish I could post more often but I only have an hour or two at night to
read the NG's and post. I love this group and read almost every post but
that takes up most of my time.
Spoiler space as it might be a meta spoiler.
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As for last week's Angel, no spoiler but I hated that episode thus my
reaction on ATA. (I gave it a 1out of 5 stars).
This was an improvement and I rated it 3.85 which makes it better than GS,
IO, and SHP.
Tafka
23:05:18 +0100:
>Spoilers below for Angel 4x19...
One extra thing...
What do we think of Cordelia at the moment?
Really brain dead or not?
Alive (in time for S5), yes or no?
-Tafka-
I'd rather be rich than stupid.
Dan Milburn
>> OK, so Jasmine is weally, twuelly evil after after all. Honestly, if
>> you can't put your trust in the good intentions of a mind-controlling
>> rotting corpse, then what's the world coming to? So much for hoping...
>
> Uh, maybe. It's still not certain either way, surely? We already knew
> that she accepted the need for sacrifices for the greater good, and what
> we saw in this episode may just be a continuation of that. Certainly she
> seems to have brought an awful lot of happiness to LA, and not so much
> bad.
Oh, come on. Borg-ifying the entire population, removing peoples
individuality to the extent that someone who's *on fire* is only concerned
with doing her bidding, killing those who are against her. They weren't
even trying to pretend that she's supposed to be good in this episode.
>>>Anyway, I liked, oooh big surprise, Connor not affected, but
>>>seriously, what trouble is he compared to Angel, Gunn and Wes?
>>>Jasmine's not exactly getting with the fighting. I guess we find out
>>>next week...
>>
>> Or maybe he's affected, but just doesn't care?
>>
>> That would leave open the opportunity for more "Will Connor Choose
>> Good or Evil in the End?" tension. Oh joy.
>
> I think he's genuinely not affected, although it was pretty obvious from
> the moment Connor was kidnapped that he wasn't going to be. Not the
> biggest surprise, but then that's not necessarily a bad thing.
Setting Connor up in opposition to everyone else, whichever way they do it, is getting really, really boring.
> Ah well -
> I suppose they actually do something and fight the bad guy (/good girl,
> or whatever) next week. New writer too, which might add some interest.
Ah yes, Ben Edlund. The 'Firefly' ep he did was good, but it seems odd
bringing him in this late in the game.
Dan
Jonathan Dupont
Temporarily coma like, yes. Long term, no
> Alive (in time for S5), yes or no?
>
> -Tafka-
> I'd rather be rich than stupid.
Yes... Probably. If they were going to kill her off, they would have done so
then. This is just a convenient story excuse to give Charisma some time off
for however long she needs. Story wise, it would have made a lot more sense
for Cordy to be in the position this ep that Fred has taken.
Jon
Jonathan Dupont
"Dan Milburn" <daniel...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.04.17....@hotmail.com...
Again, this rather depends on your definition of 'good', doesn't it? I agree
with you that the audience is being position not to think she's good. In the
long term, she isn't good news for the Earth. But from her perspective
everything she's doing so far is fitting in with her grand mission. Sure,
there's a few sacrifices, but think how many more would die in an average LA
day?
> >>>Anyway, I liked, oooh big surprise, Connor not affected, but
> >>>seriously, what trouble is he compared to Angel, Gunn and Wes?
> >>>Jasmine's not exactly getting with the fighting. I guess we find out
> >>>next week...
> >>
> >> Or maybe he's affected, but just doesn't care?
> >>
> >> That would leave open the opportunity for more "Will Connor Choose
> >> Good or Evil in the End?" tension. Oh joy.
> >
> > I think he's genuinely not affected, although it was pretty obvious from
> > the moment Connor was kidnapped that he wasn't going to be. Not the
> > biggest surprise, but then that's not necessarily a bad thing.
>
> Setting Connor up in opposition to everyone else, whichever way they do
it, is getting really, really boring.
I suppose - at the same time, I don't think they ever quite resolved
Connor's Holtz issues. Angel and he are getting closer I think, just very
slowly. Not my favourite story decision I'll admit, but fairly in character.
> > Ah well -
> > I suppose they actually do something and fight the bad guy (/good girl,
> > or whatever) next week. New writer too, which might add some interest.
>
> Ah yes, Ben Edlund. The 'Firefly' ep he did was good, but it seems odd
> bringing him in this late in the game.
> Dan
Well Tim's doing 22, so in comparision maybe not so much. I guess this was
just the time that the Firefly people finally gave up. Seems a bit of a pity
that the small Angel crew worked so hard through out the season, and then
had the end taken away from them.
(OTOH, scratch that. I really want to see with Tim can do with a finale. All
the reports in so far, even from the usual sceptics, say its very, very
good. I'm intrigued).
Jon
Dan Milburn
Well of course it does. Dark Willow had only the best intentions when she
tried to destroy the world to stop people suffering, and for all I know
the First Evil thinks it's bringing peace and light to the earth by
getting rid of the Slayer line. Whatever.
There was no indication in this episode that *anyone* is supposed to
believe Jasmine is 'good' unless they're under her thrall. She didn't do
anything good, she didn't do anything that kinda looks like it might be
good if you try hard enough, there was no mention of a greater good and no
steps towards achieving it. *All* her efforts were directed towards
finding the unbelievers. Oh, except for the bit where she ate three
people. Ate in a good way, just so we're clear.
>> >>>Anyway, I liked, oooh big surprise, Connor not affected, but
>> >>>seriously, what trouble is he compared to Angel, Gunn and Wes?
>> >>>Jasmine's not exactly getting with the fighting. I guess we find
>> >>>out next week...
>> >>
>> >> Or maybe he's affected, but just doesn't care?
>> >>
>> >> That would leave open the opportunity for more "Will Connor Choose
>> >> Good or Evil in the End?" tension. Oh joy.
>> >
>> > I think he's genuinely not affected, although it was pretty obvious
>> > from the moment Connor was kidnapped that he wasn't going to be. Not
>> > the biggest surprise, but then that's not necessarily a bad thing.
>>
>> Setting Connor up in opposition to everyone else, whichever way they do
> it, is getting really, really boring.
>
> I suppose - at the same time, I don't think they ever quite resolved
> Connor's Holtz issues. Angel and he are getting closer I think, just
> very slowly. Not my favourite story decision I'll admit, but fairly in
> character.
Well yeah, but since I find said character completely devoid of sympathy or
interest, I have trouble seeing that as a good thing.
>> > Ah well -
>> > I suppose they actually do something and fight the bad guy (/good
>> > girl, or whatever) next week. New writer too, which might add some
>> > interest.
>>
>> Ah yes, Ben Edlund. The 'Firefly' ep he did was good, but it seems odd
>> bringing him in this late in the game.
>
>> Dan
>
> Well Tim's doing 22, so in comparision maybe not so much.
Tim has a *slightly* longer history on the show though. ;)
> I guess this
> was just the time that the Firefly people finally gave up. Seems a bit
> of a pity that the small Angel crew worked so hard through out the
> season, and then had the end taken away from them.
Well, Tim's still been working on Angel, he just hasn't actually written
any episodes.
> (OTOH, scratch that. I really want to see with Tim can do with a finale.
> All the reports in so far, even from the usual sceptics, say its very,
> very good. I'm intrigued).
I'm slightly wary myself. It looks like they're setting things up for the
new direction in S5, and I'm really not sure how I feel about that from
what I've heard.
Dan
Jonathan Dupont
Willow, you may actually have a point with. She's more vengeful than
anything else, but by the end of Grave the point is that she is doing things
for a reason.
The First wants to bring about complete destruction. Jasmine wants to bring
about complete happiness. The First could be just as easily lying as she.
> There was no indication in this episode that *anyone* is supposed to
> believe Jasmine is 'good' unless they're under her thrall. She didn't do
> anything good, she didn't do anything that kinda looks like it might be
> good if you try hard enough, there was no mention of a greater good and no
> steps towards achieving it. *All* her efforts were directed towards
> finding the unbelievers. Oh, except for the bit where she ate three
> people. Ate in a good way, just so we're clear.
What about the whole happy LA thing? Fun open mic sessions? She did try to
talk to Fred, after all. She isn't used to the mortal scene, so she doesn't
quite understand what she's doing to people. Still, for a being who's used
to an eternity (or near enough) of destruction and suffering, this has got
to be an improvement. She already wiped out all the evil in LA - there's
nothing left for her to do, but consolidate.
> >> > Ah well -
> >> > I suppose they actually do something and fight the bad guy (/good
> >> > girl, or whatever) next week. New writer too, which might add some
> >> > interest.
> >>
> >> Ah yes, Ben Edlund. The 'Firefly' ep he did was good, but it seems odd
> >> bringing him in this late in the game.
> >
> >> Dan
> >
> > Well Tim's doing 22, so in comparision maybe not so much.
>
> Tim has a *slightly* longer history on the show though. ;)
I'm happy to save as many Firefly people as they like behind the scenes ...
I might get a bit annoyed if, say, the Ballerina makes a repeat appearance,
now with crazy doctor brother.
Jon
Gunnar Harboe
>> There was no indication in this episode that *anyone* is supposed to
>> believe Jasmine is 'good' unless they're under her thrall. She didn't do
>> anything good, she didn't do anything that kinda looks like it might be
>> good if you try hard enough, there was no mention of a greater good and no
>> steps towards achieving it. *All* her efforts were directed towards
>> finding the unbelievers. Oh, except for the bit where she ate three
>> people. Ate in a good way, just so we're clear.
>
>What about the whole happy LA thing? Fun open mic sessions? She did try to
>talk to Fred, after all. She isn't used to the mortal scene, so she doesn't
>quite understand what she's doing to people. Still, for a being who's used
>to an eternity (or near enough) of destruction and suffering, this has got
>to be an improvement. She already wiped out all the evil in LA - there's
>nothing left for her to do, but consolidate.
I could accept the mind control (for a higher being who sees all the
connections, it might not look like we have any free will in the first
place), I can accept the burning people (acceptable casualties), but...
The clincher is Jasmine eating people. That's not "birth pangs", that's
not for the greater good. That's her eating people because she's Evil.
Also, it's played as a hint about her larger agenda. We're starting to
see what her plans are, beyond slaughtering all (non-conforming) demons
in LA. I assume it's not just about securing her food supply.
Niall Harrison
Um. I was kinda disappointed in the episode, because I do think they're
moving towards Jasmine being Evil...but I don't think this was the
clincher. I didn't think it was played as part of her larger agenda, I
thought it was played as a necessary consequence of her metabolism. If she
doesn't eat, she will die. And if you want to play the numbers game,
there's no way she's going to be eating as many people in a day as would
normally die in LA.
Also - the fact that she is so open about the eating shows that she has no
reason to lie. Nobody's going to be the least bit bothered; she could walk
around saying she was going to end the world, and everyone would *still*
be worshipping the ground she walks on. Which makes me think that *maybe*
her talk of creating a utopia is true after all.
Slim hope, but I think the option is still just about there for now.
(More convincing Evilness to me was the fact that she was quite happy to
let the bookstore owner die to keep her mind-control secret and active)
Niall
--
Verbing weirds language.
Mark Evans
Both the guy from the car crash and the store owner.
> with doing her bidding, killing those who are against her. They weren't
> even trying to pretend that she's supposed to be good in this episode.
There is also her eating people. Which isn't exactly original, but was
done in a completly cold and clinical way.
>>>>Anyway, I liked, oooh big surprise, Connor not affected, but
>>>>seriously, what trouble is he compared to Angel, Gunn and Wes?
>>>>Jasmine's not exactly getting with the fighting. I guess we find out
>>>>next week...
>>>
>>> Or maybe he's affected, but just doesn't care?
>>>
>>> That would leave open the opportunity for more "Will Connor Choose
>>> Good or Evil in the End?" tension. Oh joy.
>>
>> I think he's genuinely not affected, although it was pretty obvious from
>> the moment Connor was kidnapped that he wasn't going to be. Not the
>> biggest surprise, but then that's not necessarily a bad thing.
> Setting Connor up in opposition to everyone else, whichever way they do it, is getting really, really boring.
Wonder what will happen when he actually looks at Jasmine.
Mark Evans
Depending how much she has reduced the "usual" deaths in LA.
> Also - the fact that she is so open about the eating shows that she has no
> reason to lie. Nobody's going to be the least bit bothered; she could walk
That's because Conner is under her thrall. Though interestingly she didn't
want him to see her eat.
> around saying she was going to end the world, and everyone would *still*
> be worshipping the ground she walks on. Which makes me think that *maybe*
> her talk of creating a utopia is true after all.
If she says "jump" they'd want to know how high. Their lives are not their
own. They would commit murder or suicide at her whim.
> Slim hope, but I think the option is still just about there for now.
> (More convincing Evilness to me was the fact that she was quite happy to
> let the bookstore owner die to keep her mind-control secret and active)
To me it looked more like she didn't care one way or the other
about his life.
Shuggie
Spoilers below for Angel 4x19...
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I was just re-watching 4x07 Apocalypse Nowish/Rain of Fire and spotted
this fun reference to future events - possibly.
In the teaser Cordy's watching TV at Connor's place and he asks her
what she's watching
CORDY: "Some old movie. Pod people? or Mutant Pod Mushrooms or
something ..."
--
Shug
Stop touching my Magic Bone!
Shuggie
<use...@tags2k.co.uk> wrote:
"Evil, not Evil, Evil again. I wish he'd just make up his mind"
Ahem, quite. Goes for the whole show. I've always thought Joss is too
in love with the idea of surprise. Continually doubling back on
yourself after a while is a game of diminishing returns. Plus it
leaves you going around in circles.
Well there was some good. Gina Torres continues to flit between creepy
evil and messianic good with considerable ease. She's always extremely
watchable, only tinged with regret because I miss Firefly (Zoe
rocked!)
Speaking as a guy who's been told countless times how miserable I look
when I'm perfectly happy, I appreciated the gag about the book store
guy.
I thought the scene with Angel and Fred in the alley began well,
although the kissing then flirting joke sort of fell flat.
Like everyone else I thought the Angel/Connor 'Oh Jasmine' performance
was funny.
But I didn't like the rest of the cheesey smiley people scenes. I feel
like I've been hit over the head with the 'religion is stupid, think
for yourselves' metaphor. ME haven't been this unsubtle since Wrecked.
I think I've seen the bullet in slo-mo effect just too many times.
Which is a shame because it was actually used here for more than just
the coolness quotient.
And whilst the finger-eating mini-Vogon had potential, it went
unrealised because they just had to go for the double-bluff yet again.
So we end up with a character introduced and killed in minutes who
doesn't move the plot on any more than if Fred had slipped and grazed
her knee. (his only purpose was to attack her so she start thinking
about blood right?) Felt like filler.
Was anyone not expecting Connor to be still under Jasmine's thrall?
Structurally they gave that away - first Fred changes Angel, then Gunn
and Wes, then Connor. Having 2 separate changing back scenes is ok,
but 3 seems superfluous unless there's a special reason to separate
Connor out. Which there was. So for a show trying to surprise they're
real predictable.
There were a couple of really odd dialogue moments too. That little
speech of Connor's about how Holtz trained him to be a tracker by
tying him to a tree was just odd. Even more so was Wes' comment "I've
kidnapped him before." - it just felt like the wrong moment to bring
up the issues between him and Angel, so was distracting.
I want to like this episode more than I do because parts of it are
really well executed, but it's uneven, parts are muddled and
confusing.
Better than last week but not by much 2.75/5
--
Shug
Fire bad, tree pretty
Iain Clark
I don't think that's fair - Angel isn't evil again, after all. He's
only evil from the p.o.v. of Jasmine's acolytes.
>Well there was some good. Gina Torres continues to flit between creepy
>evil and messianic good with considerable ease. She's always extremely
>watchable, only tinged with regret because I miss Firefly (Zoe
>rocked!)
>
She was very good - in both this and Firefly although she was probably
the least utilised character in that series.
>Like everyone else I thought the Angel/Connor 'Oh Jasmine' performance
>was funny.
>
Good moment, although the 'montage' scene itself was clichesville, and
felt a bit by-the-numbers as a result.
Many of the Jasmine-cult scenes this week felt a bit like padding
given how thoroughly they did that element last week.
>But I didn't like the rest of the cheesey smiley people scenes. I feel
>like I've been hit over the head with the 'religion is stupid, think
>for yourselves' metaphor. ME haven't been this unsubtle since Wrecked.
>
I didn't see it as a general religion metaphor per se. It was more
of a riff on cults (if overlong and obvious), and quite funny in
places. Mind you, I'm an atheist so what do I know!
>And whilst the finger-eating mini-Vogon had potential,
He was very like a Vogon, wasn't he? <g>
> it went
>unrealised because they just had to go for the double-bluff yet again.
>So we end up with a character introduced and killed in minutes who
>doesn't move the plot on any more than if Fred had slipped and grazed
>her knee. (his only purpose was to attack her so she start thinking
>about blood right?) Felt like filler.
>
A little, but it was also further highlighting Fred's isolation, and
as you say it did allow her to put 2 and 2 together about the blood.
>Was anyone not expecting Connor to be still under Jasmine's thrall?
>Structurally they gave that away - first Fred changes Angel, then Gunn
>and Wes, then Connor. Having 2 separate changing back scenes is ok,
>but 3 seems superfluous unless there's a special reason to separate
>Connor out. Which there was. So for a show trying to surprise they're
>real predictable.
>
I liked it as an episode, despite some slow and repetitive spots, but
one thing I did feel was how badly telegraphed many of the moments
were - practically stock scenes.
Like Wes and Gunn losing Fred then catching sight of a woman dressed
the same way. How many times have you seen a chase like that, right
down to reaching out and grabbing the person before the reveal that
it's someone else.
Or the bookstore clerk saying how he understands what Fred is all
about was a so, so obvious fake-out. You know from the moment it
starts that he doesn't really suspect the truth.
The Connor not being cured thing was another one - the gang were much
too ready to assume he was okay without checking, so you knew it would
be a "surprise" twist.
(By the way, wasn't his "They're in here" yet another Bodysnatchers
moment, along with Fred bouncing off the car window at the start?)
>There were a couple of really odd dialogue moments too. That little
>speech of Connor's about how Holtz trained him to be a tracker by
>tying him to a tree was just odd.
A nice character moment, I thought. What made it slightly odd was
that neither character was acting like themselves, so the scene lacked
any of the poignancy it could have had.
> Even more so was Wes' comment "I've
>kidnapped him before." - it just felt like the wrong moment to bring
>up the issues between him and Angel, so was distracting.
>
I thought it had just the right edge of businesslike "it has to be
said" mixed with bitterness.
>I want to like this episode more than I do because parts of it are
>really well executed, but it's uneven, parts are muddled and
>confusing.
A solid but not great episode.
Iain
--
"Tell him, take no more.
She practices her speeches."
Shuggie
I wasn't talking about Angel. I was talking about the whole show. The
way it constantly double-bluffs you. You think you're seeing A, only
to realize it's B, then finally it's A after all. Only lately it feels
like A,B,A,B,..(Shug stops caring)
>>Well there was some good. Gina Torres continues to flit between creepy
>>evil and messianic good with considerable ease. She's always extremely
>>watchable, only tinged with regret because I miss Firefly (Zoe
>>rocked!)
>>
>
>She was very good - in both this and Firefly although she was probably
>the least utilised character in that series.
>
I just re-watched War Stories last night. She's great in that, and the
story pretty much revolves around her, Wash and Mal. One would hope
they have have used her more as the series went on. I've haven't read
the scripts for the unaired eps, because I don't want to be spoiled,
but maybe she's in them more.
>>Like everyone else I thought the Angel/Connor 'Oh Jasmine' performance
>>was funny.
>>
>
>Good moment, although the 'montage' scene itself was clichesville, and
>felt a bit by-the-numbers as a result.
>
>Many of the Jasmine-cult scenes this week felt a bit like padding
>given how thoroughly they did that element last week.
>
Which is more or less what I was saying below.
>>But I didn't like the rest of the cheesey smiley people scenes. I feel
>>like I've been hit over the head with the 'religion is stupid, think
>>for yourselves' metaphor. ME haven't been this unsubtle since Wrecked.
>>
>
>I didn't see it as a general religion metaphor per se. It was more
>of a riff on cults (if overlong and obvious), and quite funny in
>places. Mind you, I'm an atheist so what do I know!
>
I'm ex-religious so I think that's why it annoys me. I don't object in
principle to satirizing religious groups but it's the unsutblety and
use of stereotypes.
Also I think it's a missed opportunity. I know people who've left
cults and there's a great sense of loss and self-doubt. They know
they've made the right decision and yet somehow they grieve for what
they felt they had, the loss of that sense of certainty is very
affecting. I think that would fit perfectly with what they're trying
to do. I know they've sort of touched on it but there was space to do
it more.
--
Shug
Minuteman: What's it like summoning demons?
Deadly Girl: They do your will, and that makes you feel good about
yourself.
Niall Harrison
>>Well there was some good. Gina Torres continues to flit between creepy
>>evil and messianic good with considerable ease. She's always extremely
>>watchable, only tinged with regret because I miss Firefly (Zoe
>>rocked!)
>
> She was very good - in both this and Firefly although she was probably
> the least utilised character in that series.
I actually didn't like her much in _Firefly_ - thouht she was kinda
dull. But that may just be because she was underused, since I like what
GT is doing here.
>>There were a couple of really odd dialogue moments too. That little
>>speech of Connor's about how Holtz trained him to be a tracker by
>>tying him to a tree was just odd.
>
> A nice character moment, I thought. What made it slightly odd was
> that neither character was acting like themselves, so the scene lacked
> any of the poignancy it could have had.
Actually, I thought that was one of the good things about this episode -
the characters *were* recognisably themselves, even whilst brainwashed.
Last week, they were verging on stock zombies in places; this week,
Lorne was Lorne, Angel was Angel, etc. So I liked this scene a whole lot
- it works in the same sort of way as the sequences in 'Deep Down' and
'Awakening'. We know this is how the characters *should* be relating,
how we *want* them to be relating, working together...but it hasn't been
earned. So there's a tension between what we see, what we want to see
and what we know we should be seeing that I like.
Niall
--
When memes collide.
Mattia Valente
Indeed. Hard not to think it's intentional. One possible reading of that
is Cordy 'fighting' the influence of the thing inside her; what it
looks like to me is that there's growing Jasminite influence there, weak
at first, growing stronger.
Mattia
Iain Clark
wrote:
Yep.
>>>There were a couple of really odd dialogue moments too. That little
>>>speech of Connor's about how Holtz trained him to be a tracker by
>>>tying him to a tree was just odd.
>>
>> A nice character moment, I thought. What made it slightly odd was
>> that neither character was acting like themselves, so the scene lacked
>> any of the poignancy it could have had.
>
>Actually, I thought that was one of the good things about this episode -
>the characters *were* recognisably themselves, even whilst brainwashed.
>Last week, they were verging on stock zombies in places; this week,
>Lorne was Lorne, Angel was Angel, etc. So I liked this scene a whole lot
>- it works in the same sort of way as the sequences in 'Deep Down' and
>'Awakening'. We know this is how the characters *should* be relating,
>how we *want* them to be relating, working together...but it hasn't been
>earned. So there's a tension between what we see, what we want to see
>and what we know we should be seeing that I like.
True, and I like that element. But it takes the 'edge' off the scene
a little too much for me.
Although Angel and Connor were not massively out of character, they
were just "blissed out" enough that I felt like their reactions to
such a dark anecdote were not reliable.
Iain
--
"You can be me when I'm gone"