Buffy 6.14 older and far away (spoilers)
Sonja
So Yay me whoooo !!! :-))))))
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Well this was interesting, it was kind of quirky. Don't really know if I
actually liked it that much.
Hurray it's Buffy's birthday and were all in for a lot of fun and surprises
with always things going not the way as planned.
Ofcourse Dawn is way too cheerful and in confiding in her new guidance
counsellor you know things will not go well.
Tara is also invited to the party and Willow is all nervous about it. Which
is understandable, you really feel the tension so that's a good thing. Also
Tara made the most funny remarks this time :-) all concerning Spike and his
cramps LOL.
But what's up with this stupid idea of setting Buffy up with yet another
construction worker. Not to mention this girl from work who didn't add
anything at all to this story (very funny a person who can't eat dairy
products, not). Both don't know anything about a Hellmouth or demons so when
a monster attacks them they don't ask questions? Why not leave them out of
this ep.
However the part which annoyed me most was that the not being able to leave
the house was not very convincing.
"Oh I'm stuck this isn't right."
"I want to leave, but I just can't"
Who wrote these horrid lines. Excuse me please.
Going back to Dawn with her problems of being alone and her stealing habits.
Well they just leave it hanging there. Why not realise that the stealing was
a way for Dawn to get her noticed. Anyone???
Halfrek's speech was not merely enough to close this thing. Everyone just
leaves and Buffy closes the door. Thereby suggesting she won't leave Dawn.
End of problem? Yeah right!
So on the whole not the very best of episodes. And not the follow up I had
hoped for after Dead Things.
Sonja
--
"Just knock 3 times and whisper low, that you and I were sent by Joe, then
strike a match and then you'll know you're in Hernando's Hideaway..."(The
Johnston Brothers, Snatch)
Jonathan Black
> Can't believe I'm the first to write something on this ep
>
> So Yay me whoooo !!! :-))))))
You'd better believe it, sister!!!
Thanks for posting. I was waiting for someone to post first,
because I'm better at replying than at starting threads.
> S
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> Well this was interesting, it was kind of quirky. Don't
> really know if I actually liked it that much.
It was not the kind of episode I was expecting. Somehow I
assumed we would be getting more of the big stuff we got last
week in Dead Things, but instead this was a fairly light
episode, and I can see how people might be disappointed with it,
although personally I liked it just fine in the end.
> Hurray it's Buffy's birthday and were all in for a lot of
> fun and surprises with always things going not the way as
> planned.
You could smash in all her toes with a hammer and it would still
be the bestest Buffy birthday bash in a big long while.
> Ofcourse Dawn is way too cheerful and in confiding
> in her new guidance counsellor you know things will not go
> well.
And you know the episode is going to feature Dawn. Which is
cool, if you like Dawn, as I do.
> Tara is also invited to the party and Willow is all nervous
> about it. Which is understandable, you really feel the
> tension so that's a good thing.
Yes I loved the scene when they first meet in the hallway, it
really feels that there's a part of each of them that wants to
give the other a great big hug right there.
> Also Tara made the most funny remarks this time :-) all
> concerning Spike and his cramps LOL.
Yep, Tara still the only one who knows Buffy and Spike's little
secret and she handles it well, not telling anyone, but having a
little fun with it too.
> But what's up with this stupid idea of setting Buffy up
> with yet another construction worker.
I didn't really get that either, I was rather annoyed at Xander
an Anya for inviting this stranger to the party :)
> Not to mention this girl from work who didn't add anything at
> all to this story (very funny a person who can't eat dairy
> products, not).
She needn't have been there either, far as I'm concerned, but
hey, it was Buffy's party and she invited her herself.
> Both don't know anything about a Hellmouth or demons so
> when a monster attacks them they don't ask questions? Why
> not leave them out of this ep.
Well, the three visitors (that boy, this girl, and whatever the
guy with the "skin condition" is called) did make for some
funniness sometimes the way they were sometimes just left
staring at eachother wondering what the heck kind of weird stuff
was going on in this house. Or skin condition guy and Dawny
thoroughly enjoying some cartoons on TV.
> However the part which annoyed me most was that the not
> being able to leave the house was not very convincing.
>
> "Oh I'm stuck this isn't right."
> "I want to leave, but I just can't"
>
> Who wrote these horrid lines. Excuse me please.
Right. This didn't actually bother me. I can see how it might,
though.
> Going back to Dawn with her problems of being alone and her
> stealing habits. Well they just leave it hanging there. Why
> not realise that the stealing was a way for Dawn to get her
> noticed. Anyone??? Halfrek's speech was not merely enough
> to close this thing. Everyone just leaves and Buffy closes
> the door. Thereby suggesting she won't leave Dawn. End of
> problem? Yeah right!
Well, I don't know about end of problem, it remains to be seen
whether this issue will ever be mentioned again, but I think
they have made a good start. Dawn was feeling insecure,
unwanted, felt that Buffy was never there for her anymore these
days. Everyone has seen that now, and hopefully they are going
to try and do better from now on. Of course it may not be as
simple as that, we shall have to see, but Dawn was looking happy
enough there at the end as the door was closed leaving her and
her sister alone in the house for possibly some quality time
right then and there. I don't see that image as the problem
wrapped up too quickly. It was symbolic. It was a good start.
> So on the whole not the very best of episodes. And not the
> follow up I had hoped for after Dead Things.
For me, again, indeed not the episode I was *expecting* after
DT, but a pleasent surprise.
I believe last week I said here that it would be two weeks until
the next episode. Clearly I was mistaken, that break was not
this week, but it is next week. Episode 6.15 airs on Feb 26.
Bye,
--
jonathaN
Dieter Schmidt
"Jonathan Black" <jona...@nksf.nl> wrote in message
news:Xns91B516...@130.133.1.4...
I pretty much liked the entire episode. It was a bit lighter than I expected
but SO much better than "Gone" and especially "Doublemeat Palace." (that
last episode really had me thinking "the creative ones" truly had lost their
way.) Thankfully they seem to be on the right track again with Dead Things
and Older and Far Away :)
> > Hurray it's Buffy's birthday and were all in for a lot of
> > fun and surprises with always things going not the way as
> > planned.
>
> You could smash in all her toes with a hammer and it would still
> be the bestest Buffy birthday bash in a big long while.
"Ever think of not celebrating your birthday?"
> > Ofcourse Dawn is way too cheerful and in confiding
> > in her new guidance counsellor you know things will not go
> > well.
>
> And you know the episode is going to feature Dawn. Which is
> cool, if you like Dawn, as I do.
Yup, I still like her too. A majority of people in the different groups
(especially Hannigan.com, or "Bitchville" as I like to call it) seem to
prefer she's killed of as soon as possible. I consider her one of the
Scoobies though. She was a bit annoying this week, but I think that was the
point, right? Although the hissie-fit she threw after knowing they were
stuck in that house was a bit too much, even for a 15-year old.
> > Tara is also invited to the party and Willow is all nervous
> > about it. Which is understandable, you really feel the
> > tension so that's a good thing.
>
> Yes I loved the scene when they first meet in the hallway, it
> really feels that there's a part of each of them that wants to
> give the other a great big hug right there.
Yes, the Willow/Tara story seems to be heading in the right direction. Those
two gals belong toghether :) Tara ruled in this episode, the way she was
bugging Spike but especially the way she stuck up for Willow in the end. I
was almost clapping and yelling "You go girl" at that moment :)
> Well, the three visitors (that boy, this girl, and whatever the
> guy with the "skin condition" is called) did make for some
> funniness sometimes the way they were sometimes just left
> staring at eachother wondering what the heck kind of weird stuff
> was going on in this house. Or skin condition guy and Dawny
> thoroughly enjoying some cartoons on TV.
Those three didn't really add anything substantial to the story but they
didn't really bug me either.
> > However the part which annoyed me most was that the not
> > being able to leave the house was not very convincing.
> >
> > "Oh I'm stuck this isn't right."
> > "I want to leave, but I just can't"
> >
> > Who wrote these horrid lines. Excuse me please.
>
> Right. This didn't actually bother me. I can see how it might,
> though.
I liked the way they handled it. Instead of showing this weeks problem in
the first few seconds they spun it out over the first half of the epi. I
thought it was pretty subtle and I hadn't read any spoilers so I was kinda
surprised actually.
> > Going back to Dawn with her problems of being alone and her
> > stealing habits. Well they just leave it hanging there. Why
> > not realise that the stealing was a way for Dawn to get her
> > noticed. Anyone??? Halfrek's speech was not merely enough
> > to close this thing. Everyone just leaves and Buffy closes
> > the door. Thereby suggesting she won't leave Dawn. End of
> > problem? Yeah right!
>
> Well, I don't know about end of problem, it remains to be seen
> whether this issue will ever be mentioned again, but I think
> they have made a good start. Dawn was feeling insecure,
> unwanted, felt that Buffy was never there for her anymore these
> days. Everyone has seen that now, and hopefully they are going
> to try and do better from now on. Of course it may not be as
> simple as that, we shall have to see, but Dawn was looking happy
> enough there at the end as the door was closed leaving her and
> her sister alone in the house for possibly some quality time
> right then and there. I don't see that image as the problem
> wrapped up too quickly. It was symbolic. It was a good start.
I don't really feel this will be the end of it though. It has been setup
since S5 and I think there will be a bit more Dawnster-problems.
>
> > So on the whole not the very best of episodes. And not the
> > follow up I had hoped for after Dead Things.
>
> For me, again, indeed not the episode I was *expecting* after
> DT, but a pleasent surprise.
I liked it a lot. Back on track. On to the main event...that sort of thing
:)
One thing I still have to mention that you guys didn't. Anya really
surprised me this week with her agressive attitude towards Willow. We
haven't seen a different side of her since "The Body" and I was pleasantly
surprised to see that character have a little more depth than being just
"that strangely literal girl"
> I believe last week I said here that it would be two weeks until
> the next episode. Clearly I was mistaken, that break was not
> this week, but it is next week. Episode 6.15 airs on Feb 26.
*sigh*
>
> Bye,
> --
> jonathaN
Later,
Dieter
Saskia
There still be spoilers down here!
Dieter Schmidt said:
> >
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> > >
> > For me, again, indeed not the episode I was *expecting* after
> > DT, but a pleasent surprise.
>
> I liked it a lot. Back on track. On to the main event...that sort of thing
> :)
The 'main event' of the season certainly seems to be about groing up. I was
just wondering though, what came first: ASH's decision to quit or the idea
of the arc of this season? This is all working extra well with the absence
of Giles, and I wonder how the season would have looked if ASH hadn't left.
Can't help thinking about that. And (thinking in Buffyverse now) I *hate*
Giles for not being there for her now. What kind of a watcher is he?!
Also, I really do hope we are going to get some acceptable closure on Dawn's
not being real. I think it was Ninia who brought this up the other day, am
too lazy to look it up, but it kinda bugs me too. So Buffy did something to
Glory's portal and Dawn ended up what? How? Why? What really actually
*happened*?
--
Saskia
Ninia
> Sonja wrote:
>
> > Can't believe I'm the first to write something on this ep
> >
> > So Yay me whoooo !!! :-))))))
>
> You'd better believe it, sister!!!
>
> Thanks for posting. I was waiting for someone to post first,
> because I'm better at replying than at starting threads.
I don't agree with that. It's just a thougth in your head, but not really
true.
It was not a bad episode. It gave me the feeling of claustrofobia, being
stuck with all these people and no escape.
The only thing that disappointed me a bit was Spike. It was very funny
of course, he only came because of his mucle cramp, but the other week he
seemed to get darker again, seducing Buffy to his own world, making her
feelings of distraction, of not being able to connect to the world worse.
> > Going back to Dawn with her problems of being alone and her
> > stealing habits. Well they just leave it hanging there. Why
> > not realise that the stealing was a way for Dawn to get her
> > noticed. Anyone??? Halfrek's speech was not merely enough
> > to close this thing. Everyone just leaves and Buffy closes
> > the door. Thereby suggesting she won't leave Dawn. End of
> > problem? Yeah right!
>
> Well, I don't know about end of problem, it remains to be seen
> whether this issue will ever be mentioned again, but I think
> they have made a good start. Dawn was feeling insecure,
> unwanted, felt that Buffy was never there for her anymore these
> days. Everyone has seen that now, and hopefully they are going
> to try and do better from now on. Of course it may not be as
> simple as that, we shall have to see, but Dawn was looking happy
> enough there at the end as the door was closed leaving her and
> her sister alone in the house for possibly some quality time
> right then and there. I don't see that image as the problem
> wrapped up too quickly. It was symbolic. It was a good start.
Do you really think Buffy will change her attitude towards Dawn? It has
happened before that Dawn misses her sister, like that time when she was
going out with those vampires, and when she went out with magick-addicted
Willow. It was all dangerous and all because Buffy was not really there
for her. I think something has to happen, something big, something from
outside, before Buffy will change and get rid of her addiction to Spike.
Maybe I am too pessimistic, but I am waiting for something. Something
really big.
> I believe last week I said here that it would be two weeks until
> the next episode. Clearly I was mistaken, that break was not
> this week, but it is next week. Episode 6.15 airs on Feb 26.
It was a surprise indeed. I hope you are mistaken again and there will
not be a break at all ;)
And Dawn: she can scream can't she? Wow!
--
Ninia
Ninia
I think we should send him an e-mail to tell how bad it is with Buffy ;)
When he decided to leave (in the musical-ep) things were not as bad as
they are now. Buffy didn't feel happy of course, but she leaned on Giles
and Giles was certain he stood in the way. After that the whole thing
with Spike happened and Buffy got more and more distracted.
>
> Also, I really do hope we are going to get some acceptable closure on Dawn's
> not being real. I think it was Ninia who brought this up the other day, am
> too lazy to look it up, but it kinda bugs me too. So Buffy did something to
> Glory's portal and Dawn ended up what? How? Why? What really actually
> *happened*?
It had something to do with blood as well. Can't remember exactly. Dawn
was bleeding, Buffy had the same blood and if she jumped the bleeding
would stop. Wasn't it something like that?
What about the title? Older and far away? That is about Dawn?
--
Ninia
Tafka
alt.buffy.europe said:
>Can't believe I'm the first to write something on this ep
Grr. Supplier dissapeared so I had to, ack, download it.
And it was possibly the worst encode of Buffy/Angel I've seen from
these two seasons - all jumpy and out of sync (which I suspect was
part computer, part encode).
>So Yay me whoooo !!! :-))))))
>
>S
>P
>O
>I
>L
>E
>R
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>
>
>A
>H
>E
>A
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>!
>
>Well this was interesting, it was kind of quirky. Don't really know if I
>actually liked it that much.
I found quite a few bits quite funny. It certainly was 'funnier' than
recent episodes and at the same time I enjoyed it.
>Tara is also invited to the party and Willow is all nervous about it. Which
>is understandable, you really feel the tension so that's a good thing. Also
>Tara made the most funny remarks this time :-) all concerning Spike and his
>cramps LOL.
I never was too fond of Tara (S5) but within S6 she's improved and I
really enjoyed seeing her back among the main group, especially since
Giles' left it's been lacking in numbers.
> However the part which annoyed me most was that the not being able to leave
>the house was not very convincing.
>"Oh I'm stuck this isn't right."
>"I want to leave, but I just can't"
>
>Who wrote these horrid lines. Excuse me please.
I'm not sure how else they could have - maybe - dealt, without
dwelling on the issue for too long. It did the job and didn't really
annoy me much.
>Going back to Dawn with her problems of being alone and her stealing habits.
>Well they just leave it hanging there. Why not realise that the stealing was
>a way for Dawn to get her noticed. Anyone???
Dawn has started to get on my nerves. She seems to winge with a really
deeply annoying voice. Ack.
>So on the whole not the very best of episodes. And not the follow up I had
>hoped for after Dead Things.
No, definately not but hopefully it will pick up.
In previous seasons the 13th/14th/15th/16th episodes normally have two
back2back very good episodes which influence, in part, the rest of the
season arc.
S5 - Blood Ties / Crush / I Was Made To Love You / The Body
S4 - The I In Team / Goodbye Iowa / This Years Girl / Who Are You
S3 - The Zeppo / Bad Girls / Consequences / Doppelgangland
S2 - Surprise / Innocence / Phases / Bewitched, Bothered & Bewildered
So hopefully the next two episodes will /really/ pick up the pace :)
-Tafka-
A minute ago this was the safest job in the world.
Now it's turning into a bad day in Bosnia.
Mattia Valente
>
> Can't believe I'm the first to write something on this ep
Heh. Got busy. Exam, like. And I'm off soon. So this is some drive-by
posting from me.
> So Yay me whoooo !!! :-))))))
>
> S
> P
> O
> I
> L
> E
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> S
>
> A
> H
> E
> A
> D
> !
> !
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> !
>
> Well this was interesting, it was kind of quirky. Don't really know if I
> actually liked it that much.
I quite did, actually. Not the strongest ep of the season, but far, far
from the weakest. After 'Dead Things', I was expecting a bit more of the
big spooky drama-y stuff, but, well, that didn't really pan out as such.
Hope we get s'more of that soon, though. 'cause that's of the good.
> Hurray it's Buffy's birthday and were all in for a lot of fun and surprises
> with always things going not the way as planned.
Like, duh.
> Ofcourse Dawn is way too cheerful and in confiding in her new guidance
> counsellor you know things will not go well.
Mwah...I honestly didn't really see that coming. I sorta slapped myself
later, though.
> Tara is also invited to the party and Willow is all nervous about it. Which
> is understandable, you really feel the tension so that's a good thing. Also
> Tara made the most funny remarks this time :-) all concerning Spike and his
> cramps LOL.
Tara was downright brilliant in this episode. Stole every scene, pretty
much. Truly some great stuff, and it's really, really good to have her
back.
> But what's up with this stupid idea of setting Buffy up with yet another
> construction worker.
Mwah....she's been out of the whole 'life' loop for a while. What with
Riley leaving (a full year ago) and the end of S5 madness and the
beginning of S6 depression...
> Not to mention this girl from work who didn't add
> anything at all to this story (very funny a person who can't eat dairy
> products, not).
Didn't need to be there. But didn't really do much of anything, so...
> Both don't know anything about a Hellmouth or demons so when
> a monster attacks them they don't ask questions? Why not leave them out of
> this ep.
Mwah. Didn't really bother me either way.
> However the part which annoyed me most was that the not being able to leave
> the house was not very convincing.
> "Oh I'm stuck this isn't right."
> "I want to leave, but I just can't"
Actually, that worked for me. Because it slowly dawned on them. I
really, really don't have a problem with this.
> Who wrote these horrid lines. Excuse me please.
Drew Z. Greenberg. The man who brought you 'Smashed'.
> Going back to Dawn with her problems of being alone and her stealing habits.
> Well they just leave it hanging there. Why not realise that the stealing was
> a way for Dawn to get her noticed. Anyone???
This episode isn't really the time or the place to be dealing with that.
> Halfrek's speech was not merely enough to close this thing. Everyone just
> leaves and Buffy closes the door. Thereby suggesting she won't leave Dawn.
> End of problem? Yeah right!
Ummm....what's Halfreck got to do with anything? She undid the wish, and
she's not going to re-do the wish unless Dawn, well, wishes it.
Oh, and of course, the coolness of Halfreck = Cecile. :-)
> So on the whole not the very best of episodes. And not the follow up I had
> hoped for after Dead Things.
True.
Mattia
--
"My beagle went swimming today and now he's typing on my keyboard with
his ample nose. Oh, and he's the bestest handsomeest beagle EVER."
--Tim Minear, Salon.com, May 2001
Sonja
"Mattia Valente" <mae.v...@std.vu.nl> schreef in bericht
news:3C6D2FFC...@std.vu.nl...
this ep did have serious issues which weren't really dealt with IMO.
>
>
> > But what's up with this stupid idea of setting Buffy up with yet another
> > construction worker.
>
> Mwah....she's been out of the whole 'life' loop for a while. What with
> Riley leaving (a full year ago) and the end of S5 madness and the
> beginning of S6 depression...
>
Do you really think she's still upset about Riley? I don't think so. Buffy
and guys = trouble that's how she sees it too. It never seems to work out
for her properly and why did they bring this guy along anyway, someone who
doesn't know what a hellmouth is and hey my new girlfriend is a
vampireslayer. Yes that'll work. Duh, what were Xander and Anya thinking. Oh
you know what Buffy needs, she needs to get laid (pardon my french) and then
she'll do just fine.
> > However the part which annoyed me most was that the not being able to
leave
> > the house was not very convincing.
> > "Oh I'm stuck this isn't right."
> > "I want to leave, but I just can't"
>
Well they just didn't seem to worry to much, and it sounded silly for me
that is.
> Actually, that worked for me. Because it slowly dawned on them. I
> really, really don't have a problem with this.
>
> > Who wrote these horrid lines. Excuse me please.
>
> Drew Z. Greenberg. The man who brought you 'Smashed'.
>
> > Going back to Dawn with her problems of being alone and her stealing
habits.
> > Well they just leave it hanging there. Why not realise that the stealing
was
> > a way for Dawn to get her noticed. Anyone???
>
> This episode isn't really the time or the place to be dealing with that.
So why give Buffy a stolen jacket. Where it was really very obvious she
stole it. You saw the look on her face, she really wanted attention. But no
Xander and Anya stole the moment.
>
> > Halfrek's speech was not merely enough to close this thing. Everyone
just
> > leaves and Buffy closes the door. Thereby suggesting she won't leave
Dawn.
> > End of problem? Yeah right!
>
> Ummm....what's Halfreck got to do with anything? She undid the wish, and
> she's not going to re-do the wish unless Dawn, well, wishes it.
Well you must have been listening like the other Scoobies but she was really
worried about Dawn, heard her scream for help and all.
Niall Harrison
> Sonja wrote:
>>
>> So Yay me whoooo !!! :-))))))
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>> Well this was interesting, it was kind of quirky. Don't really know if I
>> actually liked it that much.
>
> I quite did, actually.
Eh. I thought it was a bit dull, if I'm honest. Had some nice moments,
and thank *god* they actually started to deal with the Dawn thing rather
than just repeating the same issues *again*, but overall...a bit
lacklustre. 3.5, maybe.
> Oh, and of course, the coolness of Halfreck = Cecile. :-)
I rather get the impression we're not supposed to have realised this, and
that it will be a big twist later on. :-/
Speculation: I think they're going to reveal that Buffy wasn't in heaven,
and that her memories of her afterlife as a perfect place are exaggeration
or illusion. That would fit with the not-coming-back-wrong thing, and it
would fit with the fact that her childhood (for which the heaven thing is
a metaphor) certainly *wasn't* perfect and shiny. That life has always
been just this - living.
Now, roll on 'Couplet'. :-)
Niall
--
Living in amnesia valley.
Sonja
"Jonathan Black" <jona...@nksf.nl> schreef in bericht
news:Xns91B516...@130.133.1.4...
> Sonja wrote:
>
> > Can't believe I'm the first to write something on this ep
> >
> > So Yay me whoooo !!! :-))))))
>
> You'd better believe it, sister!!!
Thanks ;-)
> Thanks for posting. I was waiting for someone to post first,
> because I'm better at replying than at starting threads.
>
> > S
> > P
> > O
> > I
> > L
> > E
> > R
> > S
> >
> >
> > A
> > H
> > E
> > A
> > D
> > !
> > !
> > !
> > !
> > !
> >
>
> > Hurray it's Buffy's birthday and were all in for a lot of
> > fun and surprises with always things going not the way as
> > planned.
>
> You could smash in all her toes with a hammer and it would still
> be the bestest Buffy birthday bash in a big long while.
>
Thinking of Surprise guess you're right.
>
> Well, the three visitors (that boy, this girl, and whatever the
> guy with the "skin condition" is called) did make for some
> funniness sometimes the way they were sometimes just left
> staring at eachother wondering what the heck kind of weird stuff
> was going on in this house. Or skin condition guy and Dawny
> thoroughly enjoying some cartoons on TV.
>
Skin condition guy was the funniest of the three.
> > Going back to Dawn with her problems of being alone and her
> > stealing habits. Well they just leave it hanging there. Why
> > not realise that the stealing was a way for Dawn to get her
> > noticed. Anyone??? Halfrek's speech was not merely enough
> > to close this thing. Everyone just leaves and Buffy closes
> > the door. Thereby suggesting she won't leave Dawn. End of
> > problem? Yeah right!
>
> Well, I don't know about end of problem, it remains to be seen
> whether this issue will ever be mentioned again, but I think
> they have made a good start. Dawn was feeling insecure,
> unwanted, felt that Buffy was never there for her anymore these
> days. Everyone has seen that now, and hopefully they are going
> to try and do better from now on. Of course it may not be as
> simple as that, we shall have to see, but Dawn was looking happy
> enough there at the end as the door was closed leaving her and
> her sister alone in the house for possibly some quality time
> right then and there. I don't see that image as the problem
> wrapped up too quickly. It was symbolic. It was a good start.
>
I don't want to sound like a pessimist but I dont' think it likely they will
bring up Dawn's problems in the coming episodes. Ofcouse I hope they do.
Now with the people gone who brought some stability in their lives, Joyce
and Giles the show seems to become Buffy's Creek. Now rewatching season 2
the tenure of the show certainly changed. Buffy's raison d'être was slaying
vampires but they don't seem to be around much. As much as I like BTVS it is
now more focussed on growing pains and the horrors of becoming an adult, but
I haven't seen Adrian Mole around ;-)
Sonja
PS Hope this is a discussion topic Andrea seemed to be missing on abe ;-)
Saskia
Yeah. I can't help but wonder what would have happened had Giles still been
around. From a Buffyverse point of view and also from a meta point of view.
In the Buffyverse point of view I'm wondering if Buffy would have gotten so
involved with Spike as she did. Would Giles have had enough influence on her
to prevent it all? Or would he have been a helpless and frustrated
bystander? Or perhaps he would never have found out.
From a meta-point of view, I wonder what they would have done with the
season had ASH decided to stay. The impact of Buffy's difficult path is that
much harder and more effective because she's completely alone.
But anyway, probably not that interesting. Just thought I'd share my
thoughts :)
I am getting slightly worried about this season though. We're up to episode
16 and what has really happened sofar? Not all that much. The arc is getting
thinner all the time. If I compare to previous seasons (esp. 2, 3 and
probably 5) we had a *lot* more going on. This season we have Buffy, Spike,
Buffy, some nekkid Spike, a little bit of Willow and more Buffy. Oh yeah,
and the "arch nemesis-is-y", but they hardly count, do they? I mean, they
amuse me but in now way can they carry a season. Not even a quarter of a
season.
So, what do you guys expect or hope for the remaining 8 (gosh, only 8
left...) episodes? Does Buffy need to sink even further before she can climb
up again and stake Spike? Will she *ever* be able to stake Spike after
what's happened?
For me: I'd like to see Buffy and Spike making out, then suddenly Willow
comes in the room, sees them and is so shocked that she magically makes
Spike chip disappear, he turns evil, starts to bite Buffy and then gets
dusted by Buffy. Willow is back to her 'addiction', Buffy is heart broken
for a while and we can get on with things. Hmmm... ok so it sounds a bit
like Becoming II. Sorry, creative fluids not flowing I guess.
> > Also, I really do hope we are going to get some acceptable closure on Dawn's
> > not being real.
> It had something to do with blood as well. Can't remember exactly. Dawn
> was bleeding, Buffy had the same blood and if she jumped the bleeding
> would stop. Wasn't it something like that?
Oh. Yeah. Think so...
> What about the title? Older and far away? That is about Dawn?
Older is for Buffy (seeing it was her birthday and all) and far away too, I
guess. Far away from Dawn and her friends.
--
Saskia
Andrea!
Saskia said:
> Ninia said:
> > Saskia zei:
> > >
> > > There still be spoilers down here!
> > >
> > > Dieter Schmidt said:
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > S
> > > > > > P
> > > > > > O
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > L
> > > > > > E
> > > > > > R
> > > > > > S
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A
> > > > > > H
> > > > > > E
> > > > > > A
> > > > > > D
> > > > > > !
> > > > > > !
> > > > > > !
> > > > > > !
> > > > > > !
> > > > > >
> > >
> > >
<snippety snip>
> So, what do you guys expect or hope for the remaining 8 (gosh, only 8
> left...) episodes? Does Buffy need to sink even further before she can
climb
> up again and stake Spike? Will she *ever* be able to stake Spike after
> what's happened?
>
> For me: I'd like to see Buffy and Spike making out, then suddenly Willow
> comes in the room, sees them and is so shocked that she magically makes
> Spike chip disappear, he turns evil, starts to bite Buffy and then gets
> dusted by Buffy. Willow is back to her 'addiction', Buffy is heart broken
> for a while and we can get on with things. Hmmm... ok so it sounds a bit
> like Becoming II. Sorry, creative fluids not flowing I guess.
Well, it's an okay scenario I suppose, but there's this one little thing
that I really don't like: this dusting of Spike. I don't want Spike dusted,
I want Spike evil. Big bad guy in S7, and *then*, after The Final Battle,
Buffy may dust him.
In the mean time, I'm hoping for some kick-ass plot twists and heart
breaking dramatic stuff in what's left of S6. I'm not exactly sure *what*
I'd like to see most, but Spike killing Angel would be kinda cool,
especially if it's all Buffy's fault (trying to stop Angel from killing
Spike). Anya deciding she loves Giles more than she loves Xander would be
nice. Faith dying and Dawn suddenly turning all slayerish would be
interesting. I think I'd like to see skin condition demon guy play with lots
of kittens ('cos he's way too sweet to harm them. :)). Oh, and I'd like to
see Riley return for about two minutes and then have him killed. By Spike,
please. :))
So many possibilities, so few eps left!
Anyway, in a way, it doesn't matter to me what happens next. All I really,
really want is that I won't be disappointed.
Andrea!
Ninia
>
> Saskia said:
>
> > Ninia said:
> > > Saskia zei:
> > > >
> > > > There still be spoilers down here!
> > > >
> > > > Dieter Schmidt said:
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > S
> > > > > > > P
> > > > > > > O
> > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > L
> > > > > > > E
> > > > > > > R
> > > > > > > S
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A
> > > > > > > H
> > > > > > > E
> > > > > > > A
> > > > > > > D
> > > > > > > !
> > > > > > > !
> > > > > > > !
> > > > > > > !
> > > > > > > !
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
>
> <snippety snip>
>
> Anyway, in a way, it doesn't matter to me what happens next. All I really,
> really want is that I won't be disappointed.
Andrea is back!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yoohoooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!
Many possibilities indeed. I want to know about the first slayer and the
origin of Buffy and about the first vampires, when the earth was was
without shape and empty, and darkness was over the surface of the watery
deep, when the vampires ruled the world. I want the whole Buffy-mythology
explained in the end.
And I want Joss to come with something nobody had expected. That would be
nice :)
--
Ninia
Saskia
Andrea! is back!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yoohoooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!
:-)
> Saskia said:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > S
> > > > > > > P
> > > > > > > O
> > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > L
> > > > > > > E
> > > > > > > R
> > > > > > > S
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A
> > > > > > > H
> > > > > > > E
> > > > > > > A
> > > > > > > D
> > > > > > > !
> > > > > > > !
> > > > > > > !
> > > > > > > !
> > > > > > > !
> > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
>
> > For me: I'd like to see Buffy and Spike making out, then suddenly Willow
> > comes in the room, sees them and is so shocked that she magically makes
> > Spike chip disappear, he turns evil, starts to bite Buffy and then gets
> > dusted by Buffy. Willow is back to her 'addiction', Buffy is heart broken
> > for a while and we can get on with things. Hmmm... ok so it sounds a bit
> > like Becoming II. Sorry, creative fluids not flowing I guess.
>
> Well, it's an okay scenario I suppose, but there's this one little thing
> that I really don't like: this dusting of Spike. I don't want Spike dusted,
> I want Spike evil. Big bad guy in S7, and *then*, after The Final Battle,
> Buffy may dust him.
Nah. I think it has been milked for all it has. It's just not believable
anymore for an evil vampire to survive the Slayer for as long as Spike has.
As much as I love seeing evil Spike, I can't see him going on for too long,
or rather: I don't want to. Couple of episodes, tops, maybe.
> In the mean time, I'm hoping for some kick-ass plot twists and heart
> breaking dramatic stuff in what's left of S6. I'm not exactly sure *what*
> I'd like to see most, but Spike killing Angel would be kinda cool,
> especially if it's all Buffy's fault (trying to stop Angel from killing
> Spike).
There's wishful thinking for ya! ;)
> Anya deciding she loves Giles more than she loves Xander would be
> nice.
Ow cool. Poor Xander though... perhaps Cordy can come along to comfort him
then.
> Faith dying
Oooh! Yes please!!!
> and Dawn suddenly turning all slayerish would be interesting.
Mwah. For drama's sake, I wouldn't mind seeing Spike losing chip, Spike
killing Dawn before Buffy's eyes, Buffy staking Spike. Oeh.
> I think I'd like to see skin condition demon guy play with lots
> of kittens ('cos he's way too sweet to harm them. :)). Oh, and I'd like to
> see Riley return for about two minutes and then have him killed. By Spike,
> please. :))
:-)) Geez how *do* you come up with them!
> Anyway, in a way, it doesn't matter to me what happens next. All I really,
> really want is that I won't be disappointed.
I hear ya...
--
Saskia
Andrea!
Ninia said:
Okay, okay, but I WILL keep posting about Buffy in nksf too. :)
>
> Many possibilities indeed. I want to know about the first slayer and the
> origin of Buffy and about the first vampires, when the earth was was
> without shape and empty, and darkness was over the surface of the watery
> deep, when the vampires ruled the world. I want the whole Buffy-mythology
> explained in the end.
That would be great, indeed.
> And I want Joss to come with something nobody had expected. That would be
> nice :)
Yep. As long as it's not Riley returning and marrying Buffy.
Andrea!
Andrea!
Saskia said:
> Andrea! said:
>
> Andrea! is back!!!!!!!!!!!!
> Yoohoooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!
Um. Well, yes, for now.
>
> :-)
:)
Well, he could disappear and come back now and again. He could, couldn't he?
I just don't want him al dusty. :((
>
> > In the mean time, I'm hoping for some kick-ass plot twists and heart
> > breaking dramatic stuff in what's left of S6. I'm not exactly sure
*what*
> > I'd like to see most, but Spike killing Angel would be kinda cool,
> > especially if it's all Buffy's fault (trying to stop Angel from killing
> > Spike).
>
> There's wishful thinking for ya! ;)
Yeah. It's not that I don't like Angel, but well, I don't like Angel that
much anymore. :)
>
> > Anya deciding she loves Giles more than she loves Xander would be
> > nice.
>
> Ow cool. Poor Xander though... perhaps Cordy can come along to comfort him
> then.
Nah. Xander may die now.
>
> > Faith dying
>
> Oooh! Yes please!!!
>
> > and Dawn suddenly turning all slayerish would be interesting.
>
> Mwah. For drama's sake, I wouldn't mind seeing Spike losing chip, Spike
> killing Dawn before Buffy's eyes, Buffy staking Spike. Oeh.
Yes, that's nice. But then again, I doubt if Spike would kill Dawn, even
without the chip. Spike kissing Dawn before Buffy's eyes could be
interesting!
>
> > I think I'd like to see skin condition demon guy play with lots
> > of kittens ('cos he's way too sweet to harm them. :)). Oh, and I'd like
to
> > see Riley return for about two minutes and then have him killed. By
Spike,
> > please. :))
>
> :-)) Geez how *do* you come up with them!
What can I say, I like kittens and I hate Riley. :))
>
> > Anyway, in a way, it doesn't matter to me what happens next. All I
really,
> > really want is that I won't be disappointed.
>
> I hear ya...
:)
Andrea!
Paul Bristow
>Andrea! said:
>
>Andrea! is back!!!!!!!!!!!!
>Yoohoooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!
>
>:-)
>
>> Saskia said:
>
>
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > S
>> > > > > > > P
>> > > > > > > O
>> > > > > > > I
>> > > > > > > L
>> > > > > > > E
>> > > > > > > R
>> > > > > > > S
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > A
>> > > > > > > H
>> > > > > > > E
>> > > > > > > A
>> > > > > > > D
>> > > > > > > !
>> > > > > > > !
>> > > > > > > !
>> > > > > > > !
>> > > > > > > !
>> > > > > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>>
>
>> Anya deciding she loves Giles more than she loves Xander would be
>> nice.
>
>Ow cool. Poor Xander though... perhaps Cordy can come along to comfort him
>then.
Nah. Cordy will end up with Angel. It's been fated ever since she
clapped eyes on him back in Buffy S1 (which I've been re-watching
recently. =:o} ) Fred has a word for it - what is it? Y'know, the
attraction of two great heroes. "Angel" (the series) is really just
the story of Cordy's becoming the hero she needs to be, before she
finally figures out how to crack his curse. And then they have the
double wedding with Wesley and Fred, and Buffy's invited, which would
be fine, except she turns up with Spike on her arm... =:o>
>> Faith dying
>
>Oooh! Yes please!!!
Nooooooo!!!! Buffy and Faith are the *real* sisters. Buffy has to
realise she's sunk just as far as Faith ever did, and they're really
just the same deep-down, and that the originis of what they (the
slayers) are is so deeply dark and horrible that they need each other
to rise above it, and so then they have the big forgiveness and
make-up scene (or possibly make-out scene, depending on whether it's
the 6:45 or the post-midnight showing! =;o} ), and then they go out
and *kick* the universe's big cruel nasty *ASS*...
[SOME TIME LATER]
OK, breathing is under control now... I'm good.. really.. Just need
more tea...
>> and Dawn suddenly turning all slayerish would be interesting.
Oh yeah. When they figure out what the thing is that makes a girl a
slayer, and dawn gets her hands on it, and doesn't tell anyone, but
just goes out and starts kicking demon posterior in the grounds of the
remand home or whatever kind of place she's been consigned to since
the authorities took her away...
>Mwah. For drama's sake, I wouldn't mind seeing Spike losing chip, Spike
>killing Dawn before Buffy's eyes, Buffy staking Spike. Oeh.
Nah. Even at his darkest, Spike will always be devoted to the niblet.
*That'll* make for some weird character dynamics when he's back out to
kill Buffy. ("Hey niblet, y'know that lousy elder sister that totally
failed to look after you all these years? Let's go and sort her
out...")
>> I think I'd like to see skin condition demon guy play with lots
>> of kittens ('cos he's way too sweet to harm them. :)). Oh, and I'd like to
>> see Riley return for about two minutes and then have him killed. By Spike,
>> please. :))
Oh year. Definitely. Both of those.
Paul B. =:o}
Before replying, dispense with unreality...
Paul Bristow
wrote:
>
>"Jonathan Black" <jona...@nksf.nl> schreef in bericht
>news:Xns91B516...@130.133.1.4...
>> Sonja wrote:
>>
>> > S
>> > P
>> > O
>> > I
>> > L
>> > E
>> > R
>> > S
>> >
>> >
>> > A
>> > H
>> > E
>> > A
>> > D
>> > !
>> > !
>> > !
>> > !
>> > !
>> >
>>
>I don't want to sound like a pessimist but I dont' think it likely they will
>bring up Dawn's problems in the coming episodes. Ofcouse I hope they do.
>Now with the people gone who brought some stability in their lives, Joyce
>and Giles the show seems to become Buffy's Creek.
I know what you mean. The playing out of the emotional drama is
getting too literal, instead of through the monsters and metaphors.
> ... Now rewatching season 2
>the tenure of the show certainly changed.
"Tenure"? "The right of a person to saty in their job for life"? =:o}
I think "tenor" is the word you wanted there.
I wouldn't nit-pick, but you did such a great job with the French in
the next line:
> Buffy's raison d'être was slaying
>vampires but they don't seem to be around much. As much as I like BTVS it is
>now more focussed on growing pains and the horrors of becoming an adult, but
>I haven't seen Adrian Mole around ;-)
The show always *was* focussed on those things, but it talked about
them through the monsters and stuff. Now it just throws the monsters
and vamps in as extra characters in the bog-standard teenage drama,
more often than not. *SIGH*. I still enjoy the show, but I'm enjoying
because I still love the characters and want to see how their lives
pan out. If I was tuning in as a beginner, I wouldn't be hooked and
thrilled like I was with Season 1.
Sonja
"Paul Bristow" <p.br...@unreality.easynet.co.uk> schreef in bericht
news:3c6fb5e6...@auth.news.easynet.co.uk...
I really miss the monsters, now they just turn out to be funny sidekicks,
there's little hellmouthstuff going on.
>
> > ... Now rewatching season 2
> >the tenure of the show certainly changed.
>
> "Tenure"? "The right of a person to saty in their job for life"? =:o}
Oops, my big mistake, since I'm studying geoghraphy it "makes my writing
english bad" :-)
> > Buffy's raison d'être was slaying
> >vampires but they don't seem to be around much. As much as I like BTVS it
is
> >now more focussed on growing pains and the horrors of becoming an adult,
but
> >I haven't seen Adrian Mole around ;-)
>
> The show always *was* focussed on those things, but it talked about
> them through the monsters and stuff. Now it just throws the monsters
> and vamps in as extra characters in the bog-standard teenage drama,
> more often than not. *SIGH*. I still enjoy the show, but I'm enjoying
> because I still love the characters and want to see how their lives
> pan out. If I was tuning in as a beginner, I wouldn't be hooked and
> thrilled like I was with Season 1.
>
I know what you mean, I've read your future scenario elsewhere and I must
say I like it. Especially the Buffy/Faith part. Not the making out mind you.
But the teaming up sure thing.
Sonja
--
Lorne: I think I speak for everyone when I say, if all you're going to do is
switch back to brood mode, we'd rather have you evil. Because then, at
least, leather pants.
Epiphany
Sonja
"Andrea!" <and...@nksfnospam.nl> schreef in bericht
news:Rwyb8.47969$yS6.4...@amsnews02.chello.com...
Maybe, but not really bad enough, Spike has been his most evil self in S2
and well it's not very convincing to see him evil again in S7, he's far too
complicated, and he is too much a victim of lust/love feelings.
He should go to LA and never come back thing. In Buffy verse all men leave
Buffy anyway.
> >
> > > In the mean time, I'm hoping for some kick-ass plot twists and heart
> > > breaking dramatic stuff in what's left of S6. I'm not exactly sure
> *what*
> > > I'd like to see most, but Spike killing Angel would be kinda cool,
> > > especially if it's all Buffy's fault (trying to stop Angel from
killing
> > > Spike).
> >
> > There's wishful thinking for ya! ;)
>
> Yeah. It's not that I don't like Angel, but well, I don't like Angel that
> much anymore. :)
Why not, I think he's funnier, ofcourse I don't like this whole baby Connor
scenario either, but he's still very watchable.
Thing is that Buffy and he have really grown apart. What they sort of have
in common is that they are destined to be single.
> >
> > > Anya deciding she loves Giles more than she loves Xander would be
> > > nice.
Anya should turn evil again and then finally she can be killed, preferably
by Xander.
> > > and Dawn suddenly turning all slayerish would be interesting.
More kinda wicca girl.
Especially with her stealing objects from the magic shop, and her spell
worked on reviving her mom, plus she likes candles a lot.
>
> Yes, that's nice. But then again, I doubt if Spike would kill Dawn, even
> without the chip. Spike kissing Dawn before Buffy's eyes could be
> interesting!
Come on, Dawn's way too young for him. As said before, Spike will go back to
L.A. when he's lost his chip, to find the love of his life: Drusilla. (Mind
you this is a speculation).
Saskia
Season 3 and you just gave away a MAJOR!! Spoiler.
Niniaaaaaaa... I know you want to scroll but I also know you really really
do NOT want to do it. Andrea! I'd say the same to you but I have given up on
you. You are the spoiler slut Extraordinaire who puts all spoilers sluts to
shame ;-))
--
Saskia
Andrea!
Saskia said:
Tssss. I don't see anything in Sonja's post that I haven't actually
*watched* on screen. And it's only with certain shows that I'm a bit spoiler
sluttty. *Not* with Buffy. Well, not anymore. I'm all decent virgin girl
when it comes to watching Buffy nowadays. Really.
Andrea!
PS: BERGEN!!!!
Andrea!
Paul Bristow said:
> On Sat, 16 Feb 2002 18:30:05 +0100, Saskia <sas...@nksf.nl> wrote:
BTW: I think I've just added some Angel S2/S3 spoilers.
Hm.
It's been fated ever since she
> clapped eyes on him back in Buffy S1 (which I've been re-watching
> recently. =:o} ) Fred has a word for it - what is it? Y'know, the
> attraction of two great heroes. "Angel" (the series) is really just
> the story of Cordy's becoming the hero she needs to be, before she
> finally figures out how to crack his curse.
Hm. I kinda like Cordy, really, but no, please. In a way, I liked her better
when she was a tad less heroic. I think that might be part of the problem
with Angel nowadays: too many heroes. Wesley started out completely useless,
but he's become sort of a hero. In S2 Cordy was still arrogant and egoistic
and a bit shallow, but by now, she's all good guy. Fred used to be
emotinally handicapped and not-very-useful, but she's becoming a responsible
grown-up. And Gunn, well, he's always been a hero in his own way, and I've
never found him particularly interesting.
It's become a whole bunch of heroes, all good guys fighting the bad. Now if
they stop acting like the bloody boring Power Rangers, please let me know,
and I'll go watch Angel again.
And then they have the
> double wedding with Wesley and Fred, and Buffy's invited, which would
> be fine, except she turns up with Spike on her arm... =:o>
Nooooooo! Please no weddings. No weddings and no babies!
Um. Too late. :(
>
> >> Faith dying
> >
> >Oooh! Yes please!!!
>
> Nooooooo!!!! Buffy and Faith are the *real* sisters. Buffy has to
> realise she's sunk just as far as Faith ever did, and they're really
> just the same deep-down, and that the originis of what they (the
> slayers) are is so deeply dark and horrible
So far I like what you say.
that they need each other
> to rise above it, and so then they have the big forgiveness and
> make-up scene (or possibly make-out scene, depending on whether it's
> the 6:45 or the post-midnight showing! =;o} ),
Oh puhlease. You guys already had Willow and Tara. Could we please have some
Angel/Spike before you get your next lesbian relationship?
:))
and then they go out
> and *kick* the universe's big cruel nasty *ASS*...
*That* sounds better.
>
> [SOME TIME LATER]
>
> OK, breathing is under control now... I'm good.. really.. Just need
> more tea...
I think all that tea is making you nervous. Tea isn't that good for you, you
know. :)
>
> >> and Dawn suddenly turning all slayerish would be interesting.
>
> Oh yeah. When they figure out what the thing is that makes a girl a
> slayer, and dawn gets her hands on it, and doesn't tell anyone, but
> just goes out and starts kicking demon posterior in the grounds of the
> remand home or whatever kind of place she's been consigned to since
> the authorities took her away...
I like this.
>
> >Mwah. For drama's sake, I wouldn't mind seeing Spike losing chip, Spike
> >killing Dawn before Buffy's eyes, Buffy staking Spike. Oeh.
>
> Nah. Even at his darkest, Spike will always be devoted to the niblet.
> *That'll* make for some weird character dynamics when he's back out to
> kill Buffy. ("Hey niblet, y'know that lousy elder sister that totally
> failed to look after you all these years? Let's go and sort her
> out...")
Cool. :))
>
> >> I think I'd like to see skin condition demon guy play with lots
> >> of kittens ('cos he's way too sweet to harm them. :)). Oh, and I'd like
to
> >> see Riley return for about two minutes and then have him killed. By
Spike,
> >> please. :))
>
> Oh year. Definitely. Both of those.
Yeah. I want my dead Riley first, and then my kittens. They can lick up the
blood after Spike is done with the most boring boyfriend ever on tv.
Okay, so I really hate Riley. :))
Andrea!
Ninia
I'll delete it then, so I will not lead myself in temptation.
--
Ninia
deathwalker
"Sonja" <alys...@chello.nl> wrote in message
news:a4ofva$1npaq$1...@ID-114342.news.dfncis.de...
>
> "Andrea!" <and...@nksfnospam.nl> schreef in bericht
> news:Rwyb8.47969$yS6.4...@amsnews02.chello.com...
> >
> > Saskia said:
> >
> > > Andrea! said:
> > >
the heck. Seriously though i think any feelings for dawn are sort of
surrogate big brother. (scuse spelling)
Saskia
> Saskia zei:
> > Sonja, be careful with what you say!! Not everyone here is watching Angel
> > Season 3 and you just gave away a MAJOR!! Spoiler.
> >
> I didn't read Sonja's post yet. Is it the message she posted 15.49?
> I'll delete it then, so I will not lead myself in temptation.
Yes, that's the one.
--
Saskia
deathwalker
in his own series. Normal humans with the odd guest appearance of oz or
willow.
deathwalker
would be there.
"deathwalker" <ian-l...@blueyonder.co.uk.spam> wrote in message
news:KiVb8.2400$oJ7.19...@news-text.cableinet.net...
Sonja
"Saskia" <sas...@nksf.nl> schreef in bericht
news:MPG.16da2a10a...@news.cis.dfn.de...
Well, I'm quite frustrated now, I didn't mean to spoil anything. I thought
with everyone downloading they'd also watched Angel S3.
And why accuse just me, why not do the same with Paul B. Who made some
suggestions about A ending up with ...
Sonja
Ninia
> Well, I'm quite frustrated now, I didn't mean to spoil anything. I thought
> with everyone downloading they'd also watched Angel S3.
This is not the case. I am far behind with Angel. So please don't mention
Angelthings in Buffyposts.
Saskia warned me in time. I did not read your post.
--
Ninia
Saskia
> "Saskia" <sas...@nksf.nl> schreef in bericht
> news:MPG.16da2a10a...@news.cis.dfn.de...
> > Sonja, be careful with what you say!! Not everyone here is watching Angel
> > Season 3 and you just gave away a MAJOR!! Spoiler.
> >
> with everyone downloading they'd also watched Angel S3.
I can imagine, actually... but yes there are people (I'm sure Ninia is not
the only one) who watch only one show, or wait with one of them to come on
tv. There are plenty of Angel fans who do not like Buffy and v.v. (or not
enough to download them). You shouldn't assume that everyone watches them
both.
> And why accuse just me, why not do the same with Paul B. Who made some
> suggestions about A ending up with ...
Sorry. Shame on you Paul B.!
That better? ;-)
--
Saskia
Mattia Valente
Sheesh...go away for a (long) weekend and you return to relative
madness....
Mwah. I'm not scoring it until Sky reaches it, and even then....I liked
it for it's old school, ensemble approach. A few things fell flat (I
was, for the first time in perhaps ever, underwhelmed by MT's
performance..), some stuff wasn't as funny/good/striking as it should've
been, but still, pretty solid.
> > Oh, and of course, the coolness of Halfreck = Cecile. :-)
>
> I rather get the impression we're not supposed to have realised this, and
> that it will be a big twist later on. :-/
Mwah....'big' twist? Am I too pathetically fannish to have noticed the
mannerisms and the tone of voice about 3 seconds after Hally said
'William?'?
> Speculation: I think they're going to reveal that Buffy wasn't in heaven,
> and that her memories of her afterlife as a perfect place are exaggeration
> or illusion. That would fit with the not-coming-back-wrong thing, and it
> would fit with the fact that her childhood (for which the heaven thing is
> a metaphor) certainly *wasn't* perfect and shiny. That life has always
> been just this - living.
Mayhap...
> Now, roll on 'Couplet'. :-)
You Angel fan, you..
;-)
Oh, and in disturbing News, David Fury is slated to write Angel ep 19,
and the Buffy season finale. Hoom :-/
Mattia Valente
> > from the weakest. After 'Dead Things', I was expecting a bit more of the
> > big spooky drama-y stuff, but, well, that didn't really pan out as such.
> > Hope we get s'more of that soon, though. 'cause that's of the good.
>
> I just didn't find the whole ep that funny. I've seen funnier eps and well
> this ep did have serious issues which weren't really dealt with IMO.
The function of this episode, for me, was partly to expose more stuff to
be dealt with, something it did relatively well (the Dawn stuff..) we
didn't move along much on the Buffy situation front, but, well, happens
from time to time. What can I say, it worked for me..
> > > But what's up with this stupid idea of setting Buffy up with yet another
> > > construction worker.
> >
> > Mwah....she's been out of the whole 'life' loop for a while. What with
> > Riley leaving (a full year ago) and the end of S5 madness and the
> > beginning of S6 depression...
>
> Do you really think she's still upset about Riley? I don't think so. Buffy
Didn't say that, didn't mean to imply it.
> and guys = trouble that's how she sees it too. It never seems to work out
> for her properly and why did they bring this guy along anyway, someone who
> doesn't know what a hellmouth is and hey my new girlfriend is a
> vampireslayer. Yes that'll work. Duh, what were Xander and Anya thinking. Oh
> you know what Buffy needs, she needs to get laid (pardon my french) and then
> she'll do just fine.
They were thinking most exactly what Anya said, really. Mostly selfish,
partly a simplistic desire/wish to do something that could concievably
add a splash of positiveness to Buffy's (so far)
sucks-beyond-the-telling-of-it Life. Smoochies might be able to, like,
help. Maybe.
> > This episode isn't really the time or the place to be dealing with that.
>
> So why give Buffy a stolen jacket. Where it was really very obvious she
> stole it. You saw the look on her face, she really wanted attention. But no
> Xander and Anya stole the moment.
Umm....huh? The whole stealing thing was 'resolved' very late in the
episode, and having Anya discover it makes it a wholly 'public' problem,
revealing her behaviour to the entire gang, not just Buffy, which makes
for more drama, or something. She wanted attention, yes. She's been
wanting attention for a good long while.
> > Ummm....what's Halfreck got to do with anything? She undid the wish, and
> > she's not going to re-do the wish unless Dawn, well, wishes it.
>
> Well you must have been listening like the other Scoobies but she was really
> worried about Dawn, heard her scream for help and all.
Yes. But as a wish demon, she's going to continue to assist Dawn, on
Dawn's terms. AFAICT these demons aren't big on the initiative. They
prod and poke and wheedle and trick people into wishing, but wishing has
to be involved.
Niall Harrison
> Niall Harrison wrote:
> Sheesh...go away for a (long) weekend and you return to relative
> madness....
Whereas I came home yesterday to *literal* madness.
Trust me, you'll score it.
> I liked
> it for it's old school, ensemble approach. A few things fell flat (I
> was, for the first time in perhaps ever, underwhelmed by MT's
> performance..), some stuff wasn't as funny/good/striking as it should've
> been, but still, pretty solid.
I just got bored. They've been building this Dawn thing for, what, about
two-thirds of a year now? That's far too long to hold my interest.
>> > Oh, and of course, the coolness of Halfreck = Cecile. :-)
>>
>> I rather get the impression we're not supposed to have realised this, and
>> that it will be a big twist later on. :-/
>
> Mwah....'big' twist? Am I too pathetically fannish to have noticed the
> mannerisms and the tone of voice about 3 seconds after Hally said
> 'William?'?
Well, yeah...
>> Speculation: I think they're going to reveal that Buffy wasn't in heaven,
>> and that her memories of her afterlife as a perfect place are exaggeration
>> or illusion. That would fit with the not-coming-back-wrong thing, and it
>> would fit with the fact that her childhood (for which the heaven thing is
>> a metaphor) certainly *wasn't* perfect and shiny. That life has always
>> been just this - living.
>
> Mayhap...
Buffy is idealising her afterlife. You heard it here first, folks.
>> Now, roll on 'Couplet'. :-)
>
> You Angel fan, you..
Damn straight.
> Oh, and in disturbing News, David Fury is slated to write Angel ep 19,
> and the Buffy season finale. Hoom :-/
Well, he did right 'Primaeval', which wasn't bad. And his _Angel_ record,
whilst far from stellar, is hardly terrible - 'Lonely Hearts', 'Parting
Gifts' and 'Disharmony'.
Niall
--
Rockin' the suburbs.
Mattia Valente
>
> Previously, on alt.buffy.europe - Mattia Valente wrote:
> > Niall Harrison wrote:
>
> > Sheesh...go away for a (long) weekend and you return to relative
> > madness....
>
> Whereas I came home yesterday to *literal* madness.
Really? I'm intruiged. Unless Pikelet was at your house, in which case,
well, duh.
I will?
<me decides to ignore the fact he hasn't scored OMWF...>
> > I liked
> > it for it's old school, ensemble approach. A few things fell flat (I
> > was, for the first time in perhaps ever, underwhelmed by MT's
> > performance..), some stuff wasn't as funny/good/striking as it should've
> > been, but still, pretty solid.
>
> I just got bored. They've been building this Dawn thing for, what, about
> two-thirds of a year now? That's far too long to hold my interest.
Well, 'building' is a tad strong. Meandering, hinting, ocassionally
(like, once) moving it forward. And, well, the Dawn Thing was the cause,
not the content of the episode, really. For me.
> >> > Oh, and of course, the coolness of Halfreck = Cecile. :-)
> >>
> >> I rather get the impression we're not supposed to have realised this, and
> >> that it will be a big twist later on. :-/
> >
> > Mwah....'big' twist? Am I too pathetically fannish to have noticed the
> > mannerisms and the tone of voice about 3 seconds after Hally said
> > 'William?'?
>
> Well, yeah...
:-p
> >> Speculation: I think they're going to reveal that Buffy wasn't in heaven,
> >> and that her memories of her afterlife as a perfect place are exaggeration
> >> or illusion. That would fit with the not-coming-back-wrong thing, and it
> >> would fit with the fact that her childhood (for which the heaven thing is
> >> a metaphor) certainly *wasn't* perfect and shiny. That life has always
> >> been just this - living.
> >
> > Mayhap...
>
> Buffy is idealising her afterlife. You heard it here first, folks.
You were right about her not being 'wrong', so.....
Dun dun duuuuun....
> >> Now, roll on 'Couplet'. :-)
> >
> > You Angel fan, you..
>
> Damn straight.
:o)
Not that I'm not, mind you.
> > Oh, and in disturbing News, David Fury is slated to write Angel ep 19,
> > and the Buffy season finale. Hoom :-/
>
> Well, he did right 'Primaeval', which wasn't bad.
Well, y'see, I have all sorts of issues with Primeval. Not the
incredibly nifty spell bit, but with other bits. As a
wrap-up-the-dangling-plot-stuff-and-reunite-the-gang-fast kind of deal,
OK, but overall, Primeval leaves me distinctly unimpressed. "Helpless",
now, there's a gew of an episode. It's his propensity for pyrotechnics
at the expense of tension (Bargaining II, chunks of Primeval) that
worries me. But we shall see. I guess I was secretly hoping for more
Jossage before the end of the season, but it looks like that's just not
gonna happen.
> And his _Angel_ record,
> whilst far from stellar, is hardly terrible - 'Lonely Hearts', 'Parting
> Gifts' and 'Disharmony'.
He wrote those? Oh, OK, I'm suddenly a lot less worried. Considering I
think 'Disharmony' is possibly the funniest 'Angel' ep ever, and I quite
like both PG and LH...
Niall Harrison
> Niall Harrison wrote:
>>
>> Previously, on alt.buffy.europe - Mattia Valente wrote:
>> > Niall Harrison wrote:
>>
>> > Sheesh...go away for a (long) weekend and you return to relative
>> > madness....
>>
>> Whereas I came home yesterday to *literal* madness.
>
> Really? I'm intruiged. Unless Pikelet was at your house, in which case,
> well, duh.
No, actual madness.
You will.
> <me decides to ignore the fact he hasn't scored OMWF...>
I was feeling generous. I've had a rough week.
>> > I liked
>> > it for it's old school, ensemble approach. A few things fell flat (I
>> > was, for the first time in perhaps ever, underwhelmed by MT's
>> > performance..), some stuff wasn't as funny/good/striking as it should've
>> > been, but still, pretty solid.
>>
>> I just got bored. They've been building this Dawn thing for, what, about
>> two-thirds of a year now? That's far too long to hold my interest.
>
> Well, 'building' is a tad strong. Meandering, hinting, ocassionally
> (like, once) moving it forward.
That's the problem, really.
> And, well, the Dawn Thing was the cause,
> not the content of the episode, really. For me.
The main character stuff was still about Dawn, though.
>> >> Speculation: I think they're going to reveal that Buffy wasn't in heaven,
>> >> and that her memories of her afterlife as a perfect place are exaggeration
>> >> or illusion. That would fit with the not-coming-back-wrong thing, and it
>> >> would fit with the fact that her childhood (for which the heaven thing is
>> >> a metaphor) certainly *wasn't* perfect and shiny. That life has always
>> >> been just this - living.
>> >
>> > Mayhap...
>>
>> Buffy is idealising her afterlife. You heard it here first, folks.
>
> You were right about her not being 'wrong', so.....
...I'm guaranteed to be wrong about this. Law of averages. :-)
>> >> Now, roll on 'Couplet'. :-)
>> >
>> > You Angel fan, you..
>>
>> Damn straight.
>
> :o)
>
> Not that I'm not, mind you.
And oh look, it wasn't as great as I was hoping. Never mind, next week is
Mere...
>> > Oh, and in disturbing News, David Fury is slated to write Angel ep 19,
>> > and the Buffy season finale. Hoom :-/
>>
>> Well, he did right 'Primaeval', which wasn't bad.
>
> Well, y'see, I have all sorts of issues with Primeval. Not the
> incredibly nifty spell bit, but with other bits. As a
> wrap-up-the-dangling-plot-stuff-and-reunite-the-gang-fast kind of deal,
> OK, but overall, Primeval leaves me distinctly unimpressed. "Helpless",
> now, there's a gew of an episode. It's his propensity for pyrotechnics
> at the expense of tension (Bargaining II, chunks of Primeval) that
> worries me. But we shall see. I guess I was secretly hoping for more
> Jossage before the end of the season, but it looks like that's just not
> gonna happen.
Yeah, he's probably off writing _Firefly_.
Am I the only one who's first reaction to this news was "Spike is *so*
gonna get staked"? :-)
>> And his _Angel_ record,
>> whilst far from stellar, is hardly terrible - 'Lonely Hearts', 'Parting
>> Gifts' and 'Disharmony'.
>
> He wrote those?
Yup.
> Oh, OK, I'm suddenly a lot less worried. Considering I
> think 'Disharmony' is possibly the funniest 'Angel' ep ever, and I quite
> like both PG and LH...
Exactly. He seems to have a good handle on the _Angel_ characters.
Niall
--
And the moral of the story is - Kids! Don't make deals with magical
omnisexual cephalopods! They are Bad Bad Bad!
Mattia Valente
>
> Previously, on alt.buffy.europe - Mattia Valente wrote:
> > Niall Harrison wrote:
> >>
> >> Previously, on alt.buffy.europe - Mattia Valente wrote:
> >> > Niall Harrison wrote:
> >>
> >> > Sheesh...go away for a (long) weekend and you return to relative
> >> > madness....
> >>
> >> Whereas I came home yesterday to *literal* madness.
> >
> > Really? I'm intruiged. Unless Pikelet was at your house, in which case,
> > well, duh.
>
> No, actual madness.
Incarnate? I don't suppose you had the presence of mind to take a
picture...
Oh.
> > <me decides to ignore the fact he hasn't scored OMWF...>
>
> I was feeling generous. I've had a rough week.
:-p
I'm sorely tempted to give it a 5, but that's silly, and daft, because I
know it's not perfect, but I just love it to bits. 4.something high,
then..
> >> I just got bored. They've been building this Dawn thing for, what, about
> >> two-thirds of a year now? That's far too long to hold my interest.
> >
> > Well, 'building' is a tad strong. Meandering, hinting, ocassionally
> > (like, once) moving it forward.
>
> That's the problem, really.
Agreed. But, like, we actually get movement this time.
> > And, well, the Dawn Thing was the cause,
> > not the content of the episode, really. For me.
>
> The main character stuff was still about Dawn, though.
Character growth/change/development, yes. But I must say that overall,
this gets my 'least impressive performance from MT' score. Far too
'Blood Ties, take two, with less convincing feeling stuff'.
> >> Buffy is idealising her afterlife. You heard it here first, folks.
> >
> > You were right about her not being 'wrong', so.....
>
> ...I'm guaranteed to be wrong about this. Law of averages. :-)
Piffle.
> >> >> Now, roll on 'Couplet'. :-)
> >> >
> >> > You Angel fan, you..
> >>
> >> Damn straight.
> >
> > :o)
> >
> > Not that I'm not, mind you.
>
> And oh look, it wasn't as great as I was hoping. Never mind, next week is
> Mere...
This *is* a Tim ep, right?
I think I'm waiting for a better encode (busy as hell week behind me,
busy weekend ahead of me, so...)
> > Well, y'see, I have all sorts of issues with Primeval. Not the
> > incredibly nifty spell bit, but with other bits. As a
> > wrap-up-the-dangling-plot-stuff-and-reunite-the-gang-fast kind of deal,
> > OK, but overall, Primeval leaves me distinctly unimpressed. "Helpless",
> > now, there's a gew of an episode. It's his propensity for pyrotechnics
> > at the expense of tension (Bargaining II, chunks of Primeval) that
> > worries me. But we shall see. I guess I was secretly hoping for more
> > Jossage before the end of the season, but it looks like that's just not
> > gonna happen.
>
> Yeah, he's probably off writing _Firefly_.
Considering the show's beginning production in, what, March, with a
double length pilot written and directed by Joss, I find that
exceedingly likely. Steve DeKnight has said he'll be writing for that
show as well, so we may well see other Buffy/Angel writers doing some
stuff.
> Am I the only one who's first reaction to this news was "Spike is *so*
> gonna get staked"? :-)
Oh, please, yes! Does this make me evil? And, uh, hmm...a 'Darla style'
ressurection, with a souled Spike? Wait, now I'm starting to not like
this idea....hmm....
> >> And his _Angel_ record,
> >> whilst far from stellar, is hardly terrible - 'Lonely Hearts', 'Parting
> >> Gifts' and 'Disharmony'.
> >
> > He wrote those?
>
> Yup.
Cool. Those were my early fannish days, before I really became a writer
fanboy.
> > Oh, OK, I'm suddenly a lot less worried. Considering I
> > think 'Disharmony' is possibly the funniest 'Angel' ep ever, and I quite
> > like both PG and LH...
>
> Exactly. He seems to have a good handle on the _Angel_ characters.
And, for the most part, on the 'Buffy' characters (re: Spike). It's just
that he's prone to playing the pyrotechnics instead of the character
stuff.
Niall Harrison
> Niall Harrison wrote:
>> Previously, on alt.buffy.europe - Mattia Valente wrote:
>> > Niall Harrison wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Previously, on alt.buffy.europe - Mattia Valente wrote:
>> >> > Niall Harrison wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Sheesh...go away for a (long) weekend and you return to relative
>> >> > madness....
>> >>
>> >> Whereas I came home yesterday to *literal* madness.
>> >
>> > Really? I'm intruiged. Unless Pikelet was at your house, in which case,
>> > well, duh.
>>
>> No, actual madness.
>
> Incarnate? I don't suppose you had the presence of mind to take a
> picture...
Erm, yes. For insurance purposes, it seemed wise.
Mwahahaha.
>> > <me decides to ignore the fact he hasn't scored OMWF...>
>>
>> I was feeling generous. I've had a rough week.
>
> :-p
>
> I'm sorely tempted to give it a 5, but that's silly, and daft, because I
> know it's not perfect, but I just love it to bits. 4.something high,
> then..
No, five is a valid vote. Fives don't have to be flawless; if were voting
now, I'd probably give 'Reprise' a five, for instance...
>> >> I just got bored. They've been building this Dawn thing for, what, about
>> >> two-thirds of a year now? That's far too long to hold my interest.
>> >
>> > Well, 'building' is a tad strong. Meandering, hinting, ocassionally
>> > (like, once) moving it forward.
>>
>> That's the problem, really.
>
> Agreed. But, like, we actually get movement this time.
Thank god. :-)
>> > And, well, the Dawn Thing was the cause,
>> > not the content of the episode, really. For me.
>>
>> The main character stuff was still about Dawn, though.
>
> Character growth/change/development, yes. But I must say that overall,
> this gets my 'least impressive performance from MT' score. Far too
> 'Blood Ties, take two, with less convincing feeling stuff'.
Glad I wasn't the only one that thought that. "Get out, get out, get out!"
>> >> Buffy is idealising her afterlife. You heard it here first, folks.
>> >
>> > You were right about her not being 'wrong', so.....
>>
>> ...I'm guaranteed to be wrong about this. Law of averages. :-)
>
> Piffle.
If I'm right, mind, I shall demand to be treated with respect appropriate
to an oracle of my station. :-)
>> >> >> Now, roll on 'Couplet'. :-)
>> >> >
>> >> > You Angel fan, you..
>> >>
>> >> Damn straight.
>> >
>> > :o)
>> >
>> > Not that I'm not, mind you.
>>
>> And oh look, it wasn't as great as I was hoping. Never mind, next week is
>> Mere...
>
> This *is* a Tim ep, right?
Well, Tim 'n Jeff. I actually liked it more on second viewing, but it's
still frustratingly not quite there.
>> > Well, y'see, I have all sorts of issues with Primeval. Not the
>> > incredibly nifty spell bit, but with other bits. As a
>> > wrap-up-the-dangling-plot-stuff-and-reunite-the-gang-fast kind of deal,
>> > OK, but overall, Primeval leaves me distinctly unimpressed. "Helpless",
>> > now, there's a gew of an episode. It's his propensity for pyrotechnics
>> > at the expense of tension (Bargaining II, chunks of Primeval) that
>> > worries me. But we shall see. I guess I was secretly hoping for more
>> > Jossage before the end of the season, but it looks like that's just not
>> > gonna happen.
>>
>> Yeah, he's probably off writing _Firefly_.
>
> Considering the show's beginning production in, what, March, with a
> double length pilot written and directed by Joss, I find that
> exceedingly likely. Steve DeKnight has said he'll be writing for that
> show as well, so we may well see other Buffy/Angel writers doing some
> stuff.
Oh, good. I like Mr DeKnight.
>> Am I the only one who's first reaction to this news was "Spike is *so*
>> gonna get staked"? :-)
>
> Oh, please, yes! Does this make me evil? And, uh, hmm...a 'Darla style'
> ressurection, with a souled Spike? Wait, now I'm starting to not like
> this idea....hmm....
Look, they can't keep him around for S7, can they? Not after this season.
Not unless they really *do* redeem him, and frankly I just don't see it.
>> > Oh, OK, I'm suddenly a lot less worried. Considering I
>> > think 'Disharmony' is possibly the funniest 'Angel' ep ever, and I quite
>> > like both PG and LH...
>>
>> Exactly. He seems to have a good handle on the _Angel_ characters.
>
> And, for the most part, on the 'Buffy' characters (re: Spike). It's just
> that he's prone to playing the pyrotechnics instead of the character
> stuff.
But more so on _Buffy_ than _Angel_. 'Lonely Hearts' was unsubtle, but had
a certain charm. 'Parting Gifts' was a pretty good post-Doyle ep, all
things considered. And 'Disharmony' was really quite impressive.
So, I'm cautiously optimistic. :-)
Niall
--
Metaphors be damned. Let's have slash.
Mattia Valente
> >> >
> >> > I will?
> >>
> >> You will.
> >
> > Oh.
>
> Mwahahaha.
:-p
> >> > <me decides to ignore the fact he hasn't scored OMWF...>
> >>
> >> I was feeling generous. I've had a rough week.
> >
> > :-p
> >
> > I'm sorely tempted to give it a 5, but that's silly, and daft, because I
> > know it's not perfect, but I just love it to bits. 4.something high,
> > then..
>
> No, five is a valid vote. Fives don't have to be flawless; if were voting
> now, I'd probably give 'Reprise' a five, for instance...
Ah. Hmm. Maybe I'll rethink this whole scoring thing and get less hung
up about the whole 'relative goodness of all eps' thing, like.
> > Character growth/change/development, yes. But I must say that overall,
> > this gets my 'least impressive performance from MT' score. Far too
> > 'Blood Ties, take two, with less convincing feeling stuff'.
>
> Glad I wasn't the only one that thought that. "Get out, get out, get out!"
Nope. Right there with ya.
> >> ...I'm guaranteed to be wrong about this. Law of averages. :-)
> >
> > Piffle.
>
> If I'm right, mind, I shall demand to be treated with respect appropriate
> to an oracle of my station. :-)
Or, well, not.
> >> And oh look, it wasn't as great as I was hoping. Never mind, next week is
> >> Mere...
> >
> > This *is* a Tim ep, right?
>
> Well, Tim 'n Jeff. I actually liked it more on second viewing, but it's
> still frustratingly not quite there.
Well, yes. No 'Reprise' level stuff. 'Lullaby' and 'Birthday' are the
best two so far, I think..
> > Considering the show's beginning production in, what, March, with a
> > double length pilot written and directed by Joss, I find that
> > exceedingly likely. Steve DeKnight has said he'll be writing for that
> > show as well, so we may well see other Buffy/Angel writers doing some
> > stuff.
>
> Oh, good. I like Mr DeKnight.
Me too.
> > Oh, please, yes! Does this make me evil? And, uh, hmm...a 'Darla style'
> > ressurection, with a souled Spike? Wait, now I'm starting to not like
> > this idea....hmm....
>
> Look, they can't keep him around for S7, can they? Not after this season.
> Not unless they really *do* redeem him, and frankly I just don't see it.
I'm not optimistic about actually killing Spike off. I still don't trust
the whole deal. James Marsters is too likeable 'n all that, not sure
Joss and Co are willing to kill him off.
> > And, for the most part, on the 'Buffy' characters (re: Spike). It's just
> > that he's prone to playing the pyrotechnics instead of the character
> > stuff.
>
> But more so on _Buffy_ than _Angel_. 'Lonely Hearts' was unsubtle, but had
> a certain charm. 'Parting Gifts' was a pretty good post-Doyle ep, all
> things considered. And 'Disharmony' was really quite impressive.
Very much so, yes. Honestly, though, I don't see this season going out
with big massive pyrotechnics. So, like, that's OK.