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Bones

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Creon

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Feb 16, 2024, 3:08:56 PMFeb 16
to
Mom passed away three weeks ago, peacefully,
surrounded by loved ones.

I'd never been with someone when they
passed on. It was a life-changing experience.

She survived a catastrophic stroke 7 years ago which affected
the speech centers of her brain. So, she couldn't say anything.

The palliative care nurses at the hospital are true angels.

I don't know what else to say, except I still have
some attachment: had a dream about a week ago that
Mrs. Creon and I were in an apartment, and sitting in
the living room were Mom's mortal remains, a lifeless
corpse that we didn't know what to do about.

Holding on to the bones, I'm told this is...

--
-c

Ned

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Feb 16, 2024, 4:37:17 PMFeb 16
to
Condolences.

That was a good dream. It's all there.

I don't know if you'll think it's appropriate, but here's a link to
the poem "Skeletons" by Ikkyu, a zen monk who lived in Japan in
the early 1500s... (English on the left, Hungarian on the right.)
https://terebess.hu/zen/mesterek/Csontvazdalocskak.pdf]

Ned

Creon

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Feb 16, 2024, 5:21:15 PMFeb 16
to
Thank you. Just read it, now I need to read it more carefully.

This stood out for me, at his conclusions:

"Delusion makes it appear that though the
body dies, the soul endures--this is a grave
error. The enlightened declare that both
body and soul perish together."

That kind of surety about a lack of consciousness
beyond death of the body is beyond what I can muster,
which is a rigorous agnosticism.

Anything Ikkyu convinced himself of the matter
may, in fact, be the delusion...

--
-c

Ned

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Feb 16, 2024, 6:59:55 PMFeb 16
to
I'm pretty sure he says that. Ikkyu's medicine is only good as
an antidote for clinging to things that change constantly. I
looked up the definition of anicca in wiki a day or two ago.
Wiki was really bad 20 years ago in most of its articles about
Buddhism. It was like they were generally edited by new-age
Christian evangelists.

There's been a 10,000 percent improvement since them. But
back then it was the time when Bill Keyes came up with the
Karma Sutra (not to be confused with the Kama Sutra - a whole
different bag of fish). You can find it here...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMkEAjLtT9s

The full text of it can be found in the group, or here...
https://postimg.cc/JsPVrf1d
...and a recitation of it in Deer Park in in Sarnath, India
can be found here...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iByMtxXvBy8&t=0s

So, under the definition of 'anicca', wiki now has a photo of
the Buddhist wheel of life, from Sichuan, China, 1000 years ago...
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/74/Buddhist_Wheel_of_Life.jpg/1280px-Buddhist_Wheel_of_Life.jpg
...and they have captioned it as follows...
---
According to Buddhism, living beings go through many births.
Buddhism does not teach the existence of a permanent, immutable
soul. The birth of one form from another is part of a process of
continuous change.[citation needed]
---

We'll see how long that lasts.

Ned

Creon

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Feb 17, 2024, 1:11:08 AMFeb 17
to
Having grown up "Christian" (I think), I didn't have an
opportunity to learn much about Buddhism...but now I'm learning
that there are as many Buddhisms as Christianities...

For example: Tibetan Buddhism, Zen Buddhism, and, um,
"Lotus Sutra Buddhism" to name three.

(I'm a UU, so my beliefs are subject to change given new
evidence, ideas, and so forth. But: Is there an afterlife?
Beats me.)

--
-c

Ned

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Feb 17, 2024, 1:36:16 AMFeb 17
to
Yes, it happens every instant. But if everything is impermanent,
what is it that lives after?

Ned

liaM

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Feb 17, 2024, 7:00:10 AMFeb 17
to
There's an afterlife every moment, consciousnesses opening like
flowers and done, disappearing into nada, yet it, you, me, and we
keep on trucking. Is that impermanence? Every moment arises from
nothing and returns to nothing, yet we think of our memories as "me"

Tara

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Feb 17, 2024, 9:23:30 AMFeb 17
to
And our memories will disappear if our brain can’t hold them. Where is the
me

Noah Sombrero

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Feb 17, 2024, 9:43:19 AMFeb 17
to
On Sat, 17 Feb 2024 14:23:28 -0000 (UTC), Tara <jack...@airpost.net>
wrote:

>liaM <cud...@mindless.com> wrote:
>> On 2/17/2024 7:36 AM, Ned wrote:
Memories are a history of me. Me is a collection of decisions,
predilections and understandings, facilitated by electrons running
through neurons, and any of the collection can be lost if the brain is
damaged. A simple cut with a surgeon's blade can do it.

It might be that there is an observer, spirit, ghostie, soul that
resides as long as it is interested, but can depart at any time. But
that isn't me.

Maybe, or something, ymmv. There is certainly something that loves to
imagine that there is more to me that this grizzly old grouch sitting
in front of a computer pressing keys.
--
Noah Sombrero

Tara

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Feb 17, 2024, 10:40:53 AMFeb 17
to
On Feb 17, 2024, Ned wrote
(in article<7cc3ed4d-650e-44e1...@googlegroups.com>):
I think that among the 5 basic beliefs, 4 of them - Hinduism 2300-1500 BC - a
fusion of various beliefs, Judaism - Abraham 1800 BC, Christianity - Jesus,
and Islam - Muhammad 610 AD, all believe that there is an immortal soul. What
happens after the death of the body varies amongst the 4 but the soul lives
on in some form. Only Hinduism believes in reincarnation (of some kind). But
you guys know all this

I’m a novice at this...
but Siddhartha - 5th cent BC, saw, as we all do, that everything in our frame
of reference is impermanent. Since a soul is assumed to be immortal
(permanent) there can’t be a soul.

But that assumes that because we can’t see anything permanent with the
senses we have, nothing permanent must exist.

>
>
> Ned


Tara

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Feb 17, 2024, 10:50:30 AMFeb 17
to
On Feb 17, 2024, Tara wrote
(in article<0001HW.2B810B0300...@news.eternal-september.org>):
And then he, like almost every philosopher, sage, leader before and after
him, he built a system that made sense to him.
>
>
> >
> >
> > Ned


Julian

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Feb 17, 2024, 10:54:30 AMFeb 17
to

Noah Sombrero

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Feb 17, 2024, 10:57:54 AMFeb 17
to
On Sat, 17 Feb 2024 10:40:51 -0500, Tara <jack...@airpost.net> wrote:

>On Feb 17, 2024, Ned wrote
>(in article<7cc3ed4d-650e-44e1...@googlegroups.com>):
>
And so it is that humans have always wanted some version of this to be
so.

>>
>>
>> Ned
>
--
Noah Sombrero

Ned

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Feb 17, 2024, 12:04:09 PMFeb 17
to
...I have only four other questions:
Is the world eternal? Is it finite?
Is the self the same as the body?
Does a Buddha exist after death?
A yes or no is sufficient.
I'd go with no, yes, yes, no;
but what the hell do I know?
There is no removing God from man -
it's genetic - the Alpha Dog:
We seek the alpha dog, and
can abstract a higher alpha dog.
And that's how God comes from our genes.
If we were cats (except lions)
we wouldn't buy any of that crap.
Nor would we know our own names.
Dogs must know their own names, to know
how they fit in the pecking order.
Cats are emperors of the universe,
who have no need at all for a name...

- Excerpt from "Tissue of Lies"

Tara

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Feb 17, 2024, 12:17:47 PMFeb 17
to
On Feb 17, 2024, Julian wrote
(in article <uqqkrk$fns3$1...@dont-email.me>):

> https://sacred-texts.com/bud/bits/bits013.htm

"Thus spake The Blessed One; and, delighted, the venerable Mâlunkyâputta
applauded the speech of The Blessed One.”

Me too - applauding

Thanks :)

liaM

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Feb 17, 2024, 12:50:31 PMFeb 17
to
everything is everything born remains - material boy that I am
I foresee AI scanning (in several microseconds) everything that
everyone that ever spent hours on ABSFG thinking and writing,
and creating bubbles of each of us as large thinking language models,
thus one day in the far future, Tara will arise anew and
connect with Ned, Julian, Noah, Creon, Nazog, San Ford, and me
just as we are now..

Will AI replace humans as the primary thinking life form
on the planet? And why not? Why not Tara again, virtual but
damn real Tara, like my young Juliet singing "I'm a pink, pink champagne
bubble" - a champagne bubble in a very real and tangible
AI consciousness?


Tara

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Feb 17, 2024, 12:59:07 PMFeb 17
to
On Feb 17, 2024, liaM wrote
(in article <uqqrl5$h3ug$1...@dont-email.me>):
No bloody way will I let Al have me!

Tara

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Feb 17, 2024, 1:16:10 PMFeb 17
to
On Feb 17, 2024, Tara wrote
(in article<0001HW.2B812B6800...@news.eternal-september.org>):
; )

Julian

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Feb 17, 2024, 2:04:02 PMFeb 17
to

Julian

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Feb 17, 2024, 2:08:00 PMFeb 17
to

Noah Sombrero

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Feb 17, 2024, 2:24:56 PMFeb 17
to
On Sat, 17 Feb 2024 12:17:44 -0500, Tara <jack...@airpost.net> wrote:

>On Feb 17, 2024, Julian wrote
>(in article <uqqkrk$fns3$1...@dont-email.me>):
>
>> https://sacred-texts.com/bud/bits/bits013.htm
>
>"Thus spake The Blessed One; and, delighted, the venerable Mālunkyāputta
>applauded the speech of The Blessed One.”
>
>Me too - applauding
>
>Thanks :)

§ 13. QUESTIONS WHICH TEND NOT TO EDIFICATION.

Right, nuff said.
--
Noah Sombrero

Tara

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Feb 17, 2024, 2:38:52 PMFeb 17
to
On Feb 17, 2024, Julian wrote
(in article <uqr06e$i44g$2...@dont-email.me>):
Eeeeeeeekkkkkkk
(I read the book) Dean Koontz predicted AI way back in the seventies. Good
movie!

Noah Sombrero

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Feb 17, 2024, 2:48:03 PMFeb 17
to
On Sat, 17 Feb 2024 14:38:49 -0500, Tara <jack...@airpost.net> wrote:

>On Feb 17, 2024, Julian wrote
>(in article <uqr06e$i44g$2...@dont-email.me>):
>
>> On 17/02/2024 19:04, Julian wrote:
>> > On 17/02/2024 17:59, Tara wrote:
>> > > On Feb 17, 2024, liaM wrote
>> > > (in article <uqqrl5$h3ug$1...@dont-email.me>):
>> > >
>> > > > On 2/17/2024 3:23 PM, Tara wrote:
>> > > > > liaM <cud...@mindless.com> wrote:
>> > > > > > On 2/17/2024 7:36 AM, Ned wrote:
One consistent thing that scifi writers of all sorts from high to low
have anticipated is dystopia.
--
Noah Sombrero

Tara

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Feb 17, 2024, 3:48:59 PMFeb 17
to
Interesting read about Demon Seed book and movie

https://www.deankoontz.com/demon-seed-from-the-author/

liaM

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Feb 17, 2024, 3:58:43 PMFeb 17
to
Aye...

Julian

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Feb 17, 2024, 4:32:04 PMFeb 17
to
It wasn't a big hit in UK cinema's when it was realeased but
it did, and may still do, decades of solid business in a double
bill with Soylent Green in University film clubs, independent
and late night cinemas, etc.

ps. For anyone interested in Julie Christie's tits...
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0069995/

Tara

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Feb 17, 2024, 4:59:04 PMFeb 17
to
On Feb 17, 2024, liaM wrote
(in article <uqr6lv$jge4$1...@dont-email.me>):
Och aye :)

Tara

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Feb 17, 2024, 5:01:13 PMFeb 17
to
On Feb 17, 2024, Julian wrote
(in article <uqr8kh$ju04$1...@dont-email.me>):
Hah


Julian

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Feb 17, 2024, 5:12:40 PMFeb 17
to
It's an excellent movie, but I like Nicholas Roeg films
no matter how shambolic, and the lengthy sex scene with
Julie and Donald Sutherland is pretty convincing. Offhand
I can't think of a better sex scene in a film.
among the best ever

Noah Sombrero

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Feb 17, 2024, 5:57:27 PMFeb 17
to
On Sat, 17 Feb 2024 22:12:38 +0000, Julian <julia...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On 17/02/2024 22:01, Tara wrote:
>> On Feb 17, 2024, Julian wrote
>> (in article <uqr8kh$ju04$1...@dont-email.me>):
>>
>>> On 17/02/2024 20:48, Tara wrote:
>>>> Julian <julia...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 17/02/2024 19:04, Julian wrote:
>>>>>> On 17/02/2024 17:59, Tara wrote:
>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2024, liaM wrote
>>>>>>> (in article <uqqrl5$h3ug$1...@dont-email.me>):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2/17/2024 3:23 PM, Tara wrote:
>>>>>>>>> liaM <cud...@mindless.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 2/17/2024 7:36 AM, Ned wrote:
There's a shambolic attitude. If you can accuse such, so can I.

>, and the lengthy sex scene with
>Julie and Donald Sutherland is pretty convincing. Offhand
>I can't think of a better sex scene in a film.
>among the best ever
--
Noah Sombrero

Noah Sombrero

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Feb 17, 2024, 5:59:32 PMFeb 17
to
On Sat, 17 Feb 2024 17:57:24 -0500, Noah Sombrero <fed...@fea.st>
wrote:
In other words, social criticism is a sham. No, the sham is when
people refuse to see the significance.

Tara

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Feb 17, 2024, 6:05:17 PMFeb 17
to
On Feb 17, 2024, Julian wrote
(in article <uqrb0m$kahf$1...@dont-email.me>):
Takes a lot of skill to pull that off well and convincingly.
I don’t like a lot of sex scenes in a movie. It’s not like in a book
where it seems kind of private. In a movie, I feel like I’m kind of a
voyeur.

Just before my Dad died, he lived with me and I would on occasion watch tv
with him.
One time, we were watching a movie together and a heavy sex scene came on.
Ahggggh. I just wanted to disappear. If I remember right, I excused myself
and made a run for the bathroom.

The eighties films were full of sex scenes. Not so now.

Donald Sutherland and my parents used to be neighbours.


Noah Sombrero

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Feb 17, 2024, 6:23:05 PMFeb 17
to
On Sat, 17 Feb 2024 17:59:29 -0500, Noah Sombrero <fed...@fea.st>
The knee jerk reaction to social criticism is to accuse those who
mention it of being:

prophets of doom
sycophantic prancers
silly
etc.

Who knows, all the above might even be true, but still you are missing
the point, at least, and at worst grabbing at any straw to avoid
facing the situation.

Noah Sombrero

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Feb 17, 2024, 6:27:40 PMFeb 17
to
On Sat, 17 Feb 2024 17:59:29 -0500, Noah Sombrero <fed...@fea.st>
I stand grievously corrected. Shambolic is a britishism that means
disorganized. Oh, dear.

liaM

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Feb 18, 2024, 8:52:31 AMFeb 18
to
On 2/18/2024 12:05 AM, Tara wrote:

>
> Donald Sutherland and my parents used to be neighbours.
>
>


That's the same person who crashed into me at the Los Feliz (L.A.)
mansion where I had a room, saying "where can I find so and so"
mentioning the name of one of the artists there, "I'm an actor,
my name is Donald Sutherland" - This happened in 1970 and it was the
first I ever heard of him.




Julian

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Feb 18, 2024, 9:20:54 AMFeb 18
to
By the end of 1970 he was an international film star
after Kelly's Heros and, particularly, M*A*S*H

Tara

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Feb 18, 2024, 10:25:54 AMFeb 18
to
Very Un-Canadian. Shame on him!
-

Wilson

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Feb 18, 2024, 11:35:47 AMFeb 18
to
"You know who doesn’t get impostor syndrome? Cats. Not only does every
cat know they’re a cat, I think every cat believes firmly, with
conviction, that they are the best possible cat, the prime example of a
cat, the most cat a cat could be."
– Jennifer Adcock


Tara

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Feb 18, 2024, 12:00:42 PMFeb 18
to
On Feb 18, 2024, Wilson wrote
(in article <uqtbl0$1ansr$1...@dont-email.me>):
Love this and love them

However, I have been owned by a neurotic cat (in a nice way). Beau, a Linx
Point Siamese, would catch a mouse or some other little creature and instead
of playing with or devouring it, would look at me with a teary, concerned eye
not knowing what to do. He would then drop his prey, set it free and pad
away. Beau also followed me everywhere.

Ned

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Feb 18, 2024, 12:13:52 PMFeb 18
to
...Cats are emperors of the universe,
who have no need at all for a name.
A dog might go to a Halloween
party dressed as a cat, but a cat
would never go dressed as a dog.
Dogs have many masks; cats have none.
Every dog, except one, must be
sometimes inferior, other times
superior - Thus the need for masks.
The pack won't function without masks.
Masks are like walls and "Getting Big" -
The organizing principle
of the universe. But what if
all the vast 'empty' spaces
in the universe - the emptiness
between electrons and nucleus,
between the planets and the sun,
between solar systems and galaxies -
were filled, chock full solid, with
Everything - every possible thing?
Jammed full with every outcome,
so anything can happen anywhere.
Being solid, nothing in the cosmos
can move - everything is frozen.
It exists, and goes out of existence,
and reappears an instant later.
Except it doesn't, because everything
is There - and we see what we look for.
Thus, the truth that emptiness is form.
Anomaly in the tissue of lies?
No, because no one believes it.
So, it's not that things practice "Getting Big",
it's that we practice it when viewing things.
We see planets in orbit,
and search till we find a sun.
We see a cloud of electrons,
and search till we find a nucleus,
we see galaxies, and search till
we find a black hole at the center.
All of them are masks hiding the truth.
Because we know what the truth must be,
and we search and search till we find it.
We know they are masks, we see them as masks,
because we are a species of masks...

Noah Sombrero

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Feb 18, 2024, 12:24:12 PMFeb 18
to
On Sun, 18 Feb 2024 09:13:50 -0800 (PST), Ned <ned...@ix.netcom.com>
wrote:

>On Sunday, February 18, 2024 at 9:00:42?AM UTC-8, Tara wrote:
>> On Feb 18, 2024, Wilson wrote
>> (in article <uqtbl0$1ansr$1...@dont-email.me>):
>> > On 2/17/2024 12:04 PM, Ned wrote:
Oh, yeah.
--
Noah Sombrero

Tara

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Feb 18, 2024, 12:24:25 PMFeb 18
to
On Feb 18, 2024, Ned wrote
(in article<d5ca15ff-48de-42e1...@googlegroups.com>):
Gonna read this book! :)


Noah Sombrero

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Feb 18, 2024, 12:27:20 PMFeb 18
to
On Sun, 18 Feb 2024 12:24:08 -0500, Noah Sombrero <fed...@fea.st>
wrote:
In mellifluent flavors of buddhism, christianity, islam spreading
across the sky.
--
Noah Sombrero

Wilson

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Feb 18, 2024, 1:23:24 PMFeb 18
to
Ned should probably publish it.

I hear that self-publishing on Amazon is fairly easy.


Julian

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Feb 18, 2024, 1:31:29 PMFeb 18
to
"‘Everyone has a book in them, but in most cases
that’s where it should stay" but yeah.

Ned

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Feb 18, 2024, 2:20:51 PMFeb 18
to
Oh yes. I have "The Zen Gardens At Bullshitji" there for $1.99, or
zero, depending on your preference.

But I also have made it available as a slide show, for free, so only
an idiot would pay for it...
https://tinyurl.com/ZenGardensAtBullshitji

Ned

Ned

unread,
Feb 18, 2024, 2:25:59 PMFeb 18
to
Oh yes. In general, books should stay in bits. ("Won't SOMEBODY
please think of the trees!")

Tissue of Lies is available (in pieces) on Google Groups. It was
posted as I wrote it during a year and a half period from Oct. 18,
2010 to May 9, 2012.

Ned

liaM

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Feb 18, 2024, 2:40:50 PMFeb 18
to
His friend was a Canadian artist lady friend. I never saw him again.

Tara

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Feb 18, 2024, 3:04:15 PMFeb 18
to
On Feb 18, 2024, Ned wrote
(in article<98ee0be2-2e82-45cc...@googlegroups.com>):
Even though I’m an idiot, I can’t buy it because it appears that I
don’t have a kindle app. So, thanks for the link

"Like tossing a ball on swift-flowing water, moment to moment, non-stop flow.
Walking the mountain path I find something endearing about violets.
My joy is the source of my smile, and my smile is the source of my joy. Mind
is not someone else’s mind.”

Beautiful book Ned.


Tara

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Feb 18, 2024, 3:13:32 PMFeb 18
to
On Feb 18, 2024, liaM wrote
(in article <uqtmg0$1dp9d$1...@dont-email.me>):
Yeah, and he is a Canadian.


liaM

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Feb 18, 2024, 6:45:27 PMFeb 18