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Argentina offers a textbook study in why rent controls are a bad idea

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Julian

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Jan 22, 2024, 11:18:15 AMJan 22
to
Javier Milei is right to take his chainsaw to tenancy regulations

Progressives wishing to ape Argentina's experiment with rent caps should
look at its results

The supply of rental properties in Buenos Aires has surged since Milei
scrapped his predecessor's policy


In his ascent to Argentina’s presidency, Javier Milei was distinguished
not just by his libertarian ideology but also for his pedagogic approach
towards economics. On the campaign trail, he would regularly articulate
the basic principles of market economics.

Now in government, the fiery libertarian’s ‘shock therapy’ is turning
those lessons into hard case studies. Within executive Decree 70/2023,
translated as ‘Foundations for the Reconstruction of the Argentine
Economy,’ Milei took his chainsaw to rent control and other tenancy
regulations. The result has vindicated economic theory: the supply of
rental accommodation is surging and rents have tumbled...

https://capx.co/argentina-offers-a-textbook-study-in-why-rent-controls-are-a-bad-idea/

Wilson

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Jan 22, 2024, 11:30:45 AMJan 22
to
The ideas he's using are not new. Neither is the ability of some people
to ignore the reality that those ideas work.

I don't see any indication that the people who want to believe in
systems that control people as if they are interchangeable widgets and
who attempt to run a command style economy are going to wise up any time
soon.

Noah Sombrero

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Jan 22, 2024, 12:39:14 PMJan 22
to
On Mon, 22 Jan 2024 11:30:43 -0500, Wilson <Wil...@nowhere.net> wrote:

>On 1/22/2024 11:18 AM, Julian wrote:
>> Javier Milei is right to take his chainsaw to tenancy regulations
>>
>> Progressives wishing to ape Argentina's experiment with rent caps should
>> look at its results
>>
>> The supply of rental properties in Buenos Aires has surged since Milei
>> scrapped his predecessor's policy
>>
>>
>> In his ascent to Argentina’s presidency, Javier Milei was distinguished
>> not just by his libertarian ideology but also for his pedagogic approach
>> towards economics. On the campaign trail, he would regularly articulate
>> the basic principles of market economics.
>>
>> Now in government, the fiery libertarian’s ‘shock therapy’ is turning
>> those lessons into hard case studies. Within executive Decree 70/2023,
>> translated as ‘Foundations for the Reconstruction of the Argentine
>> Economy,’ Milei took his chainsaw to rent control and other tenancy
>> regulations. The result has vindicated economic theory: the supply of
>> rental accommodation is surging and rents have tumbled...
>>
>> https://capx.co/argentina-offers-a-textbook-study-in-why-rent-controls-are-a-bad-idea/
>
>The ideas he's using are not new. Neither is the ability of some people
>to ignore the reality that those ideas work.

Sure, let's not declare victory quite yet. Check back in a few years.

He also wants to tie the peso to the us dollar, an idea that has been
tried there several times. So far, no joy with that.

>I don't see any indication that the people who want to believe in
>systems that control people as if they are interchangeable widgets and
>who attempt to run a command style economy are going to wise up any time
>soon.
--
Noah Sombrero

Julian

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Jan 22, 2024, 1:55:37 PMJan 22
to
On 22/01/2024 16:30, Wilson wrote:
> On 1/22/2024 11:18 AM, Julian wrote:
>> Javier Milei is right to take his chainsaw to tenancy regulations
>>
>> Progressives wishing to ape Argentina's experiment with rent caps
>> should look at its results
>>
>> The supply of rental properties in Buenos Aires has surged since Milei
>> scrapped his predecessor's policy
>>
>>
>> In his ascent to Argentina’s presidency, Javier Milei was
>> distinguished not just by his libertarian ideology but also for his
>> pedagogic approach towards economics. On the campaign trail, he would
>> regularly articulate the basic principles of market economics.
>>
>> Now in government, the fiery libertarian’s ‘shock therapy’ is turning
>> those lessons into hard case studies. Within executive Decree 70/2023,
>> translated as ‘Foundations for the Reconstruction of the Argentine
>> Economy,’ Milei took his chainsaw to rent control and other tenancy
>> regulations. The result has vindicated economic theory: the supply of
>> rental accommodation is surging and rents have tumbled...
>>
>> https://capx.co/argentina-offers-a-textbook-study-in-why-rent-controls-are-a-bad-idea/
>
> The ideas he's using are not new.

True, but it is noteworthy when someone dusts them off.

> Neither is the ability of some people
> to ignore the reality that those ideas work.

Acknowledging even one such idea as anything less than
evil would lead to the unravelling of their entire pose.

> I don't see any indication that the people who want to believe in
> systems that control people as if they are interchangeable widgets and
> who attempt to run a command style economy are going to wise up any time
> soon.

Yeah, but it's good that the next generation can witness
alternatives... even moreso if the alternatives have been
experienced to work.

Noah Sombrero

unread,
Jan 22, 2024, 2:31:51 PMJan 22
to
On Mon, 22 Jan 2024 18:55:27 +0000, Julian <julia...@gmail.com>
wrote:
You sound as if none of this has been tried before.
--
Noah Sombrero

Wilson

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Jan 22, 2024, 2:43:06 PMJan 22
to
Yes, that's all true. Him winning is a genuine white pill and does make
me more optimistic.


Noah Sombrero

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Jan 22, 2024, 3:18:40 PMJan 22
to
I bet.

What he is really trying to do is undo things that were done to deal
with problems caused by previous libertian/conservative policies.

Like, for instance, the tie the peso to the us dollar thing, done in
the past to deter the influence of free wheeling libertarian money
speculators on the Argentine currency, at least no more than
speculation on us currency, except that it lead to a different crop of
problems, which is why the idea has been abandoned in the past.

One might hope that economists can finally reach a conclusion when
laid end to end, so we can know finally how to manage world economies.
--
Noah Sombrero

Wilson

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Jan 22, 2024, 6:09:02 PMJan 22
to
Everything the socialists did failed spectacularly.

As usual.


liaM

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Jan 22, 2024, 7:14:58 PMJan 22
to
Except for French and UK capitalism :)

Socialism and capitalism are good marriage, socialism being the
distaff side making sure the kids are healthy and well educated, and
capitalism giving them somewhere to use their smarts at creating new
wealth.

Ned

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Jan 22, 2024, 7:23:29 PMJan 22
to
Yeah. A Yin-Yang world kind of thing...

https://i.postimg.cc/XvwKbxjP/Yin-Yang-Existence.jpg
hi-res: https://postimg.cc/gw2LyV6y

Ned

liaM

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Jan 22, 2024, 9:43:59 PMJan 22
to
Alas for us, North Americans. Socialism is taboo and schools are weak,
health is a business proposition, leading to Fantanyl deaths and
a population of people who don't think about what they are voting for.


Tara

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Jan 22, 2024, 10:33:08 PMJan 22
to
Hello there. Waving from Canada.. Last I looked, we are North Americans,
have good schools, universal health care and like the UK, a pretty decent
marriage politically.

liaM

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Jan 23, 2024, 7:19:06 AMJan 23
to
In Canada, too!

Wilson

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Jan 23, 2024, 7:58:43 AMJan 23
to
Snappy little soundbites.


Julian

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Jan 23, 2024, 7:59:53 AMJan 23
to
Dieu Sauve le Roi.

Ned

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Jan 23, 2024, 9:29:50 AMJan 23
to
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/It_is_far_better_to_face_the_bullets.jpg

Lord, save our King
and hear us in the day in which we shall call upon Thee.
Glory to the Father and the Son,
and the Holy Spirit.
As it was in the beginning
and it is now, and it shall be, for ever without end.
Amen.

Ned

P.S. Or at least up until the day we cut his head off...

The beheading of Louis XVI...
https://origins.osu.edu/sites/default/files/inline-images/louis_diptych2.jpg

The beheading of Charles I...
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/images/ic/1200x675/p01wvs1r.jpg

Noah Sombrero

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Jan 23, 2024, 9:50:44 AMJan 23
to
Wilson refuses to believe. Who knew?
--
Noah Sombrero

Tara

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Jan 23, 2024, 9:51:35 AMJan 23
to
Bless his wee heart :)

Julian

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Jan 23, 2024, 12:02:44 PMJan 23
to
O Lord our God arise,
Scatter our enemies,
And make them fall!
Confound their politics,
Frustrate their knavish tricks,
On Thee our hopes we fix,
God save us all!

Noah Sombrero

unread,
Jan 23, 2024, 1:00:58 PMJan 23
to
On Tue, 23 Jan 2024 17:02:39 +0000, Julian <julia...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On 23/01/2024 14:29, Ned wrote:
Poor diety had all these factions praying the same thing against each
other. So he said, nuts, and confounded them all.

>Frustrate their knavish tricks,
>On Thee our hopes we fix,
>God save us all!
--
Noah Sombrero

Ned

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Jan 23, 2024, 1:01:03 PMJan 23
to
Now THAT'S a national anthem! None of this ramparts watching,
gallant streaming stuff.

And we stole the melody from you ("To Anacreon in Heaven").

Ned

Julian

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Jan 23, 2024, 1:58:49 PMJan 23
to
Wiki mentions "My Country, 'Tis of Thee" (also known as "America")"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_Save_the_King


.
> Ned

Tara

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Jan 23, 2024, 2:04:54 PMJan 23
to
On Jan 23, 2024, Ned wrote
(in article<cfceb945-01fc-4d83...@googlegroups.com>):
Wha Hae
“Let Us Do or Dee”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilkmHClLyp4


Tara

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Jan 23, 2024, 2:14:56 PMJan 23
to
On Jan 23, 2024, Julian wrote
(in article <uop297$1db5p$1...@dont-email.me>):
Wrong url in my last post. This is the one I meant to link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKT7qxk9-pw


Ned

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Jan 23, 2024, 3:18:15 PMJan 23
to
That's a good song. Ah, of course, Bobby Burns.

Wiki says it was "for centuries an unofficial national anthem"
of Scotland. Shoulda kept it.

Reminds me of another Scots' song that I really like. It was used
at the end of a fairly decent movie about Robert the Bruce,
starring Chris Pine, called "The Outlaw King". The song was
played over the credits at the end of the movie...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jhEKUGbPtQ

The song was written by a woman, Lady Carolina Nairne, in the
early 1800s, though it was thought for long time to have been
written by Burns. Here are the lyrics...

Land o' the Leal

I'm wearin' awa', John
Like snaw-wreaths in thaw, John,
I'm wearin' awa'
To the land o' the leal.
There's nae sorrow there, John,
There's neither cauld nor care, John,
The day is aye fair
In the land o' the leal.
Our bonnie bairn's there, John,
She was baith gude and fair, John;
And O! we grudged her sair
To the land o' the leal.
But sorrow's sel' wears past, John,
And joy's a-coming fast, John,
The joy that's aye to last
In the land o' the leal.

Sae dear's the joy was bought, John,
Sae free the battle fought, John,
That sinfu' man e'er brought
To the land o' the leal.
O, dry your glistening e'e, John!
My saul langs to be free, John,
And angels beckon me
To the land o' the leal.

O, haud ye leal and true, John!
Your day it's wearin' through, John,
And I'll welcome you
To the land o' the leal.
Now fare-ye-weel, my ain John,
This warld's cares are vain, John,
We'll meet, and we'll be fain,
In the land o' the leal.

---

Meaning of unusual words:
leal=loyal, faithful
bairn=child
e'e=eye
fain=loving, affectionate

Ned

Tara

unread,
Jan 23, 2024, 3:46:32 PMJan 23
to
:)). I remember that song from the movie. Gave me goosebumps. The Outlaw
King was good. Kind of made up for the embarrassment of Braveheart. Parts
of that movie were filmed near Fort William and Oban where my people came
from.

Julian

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Jan 23, 2024, 4:01:22 PMJan 23
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Tara

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Jan 23, 2024, 4:57:07 PMJan 23
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:)
(( ))

Ned

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Jan 23, 2024, 5:06:56 PMJan 23
to
Wow. Another beauty. Amazing set of words and images.

Ned

---
The song appears on the duo's fourth album Idlewild. Ben Watt
wrote the war-conscious tune in the mid-'80s after driving with
his dad to Scotland to revisit some of his old stomping grounds.
One of the places they went to was the Holy Loch, which was
used as a submarine base in World War II.
In our interview with Watt, he told us about his experience of
standing on the edge of the Holy Loch and a nuclear submarine
surfacing right in front of them, calling it "A startling moment."
He explained how the story of the song is more than just about
hearing the Italian operatic tenor, Enrico Caruso, sing for the
first time and restoring his faith in humanity. "The song is about
the redemptive power of music," said Watt. "Not just Caruso - to
make sense of life, to offer succor and wonder, even when life
itself may seem frightening and unknowable."
https://www.songfacts.com/facts/everything-but-the-girl/the-night-i-heard-caruso-sing
---

The Night I Heard Caruso Sing

The highlands and the lowlands
Are the roots my father knows
The holidays at Oban
And the towns around Montrose
But even as he sleeps
They're loading bombs into the hills
And the waters in the lochs
Can run deep but never still
I've thought of having children
But I've gone and changed my mind
It's hard enough to watch the news
Let alone explain it to a child
To cast your eye 'cross nature
Over fields of rape and corn
And tell him without flinching
Not to fear where he's been born
Then someone sat me down last night
And I heard Caruso sing
He's almost as good as Presley
And if I only do one thing
I'll sing songs to my father
I'll sing songs to my child
It's time to hold your loved ones
While the chains are loosed and the world
Runs wild
And even as we speak
They're loading bombs onto a white train
How can we afford to ever sleep
So sound again

Wilson

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Jan 24, 2024, 9:59:42 AMJan 24
to
Sic semper tyrannis.


Wilson

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Jan 24, 2024, 10:03:55 AMJan 24
to
Yes it's true, I do not believe in your religion of the state.


Noah Sombrero

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Jan 24, 2024, 10:18:10 AMJan 24
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See that's the thing, you are somehow absolutely convinced all the way
down to your toenails, that that is what it is about.
--
Noah Sombrero

Noah Sombrero

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Jan 24, 2024, 10:37:12 AMJan 24
to
On Wed, 24 Jan 2024 09:59:42 -0500, Wilson <Wil...@nowhere.net> wrote:

>On 1/23/2024 9:29 AM, Ned wrote:
For those of us who didn't have latin in high school and again at
university, Thus always tyrants. Interesting how syntax has gotten
simpler but we have lost the trick of simple expressions that the
romans had. No articles (part of speech) for them, among other
things.

But that isn't those who lost their heads were, really. Stalin was a
tyrant. These guys were simply normal folks who suffered an
unfortunate accident of birth. Or as some more sensitive type put it,
uneasily rests the head that wears a crown. Yeh, that's more like it.
Compassion, wilson. Stalin was not uneasy.

Another one, et tu, brute.

And you, brutus. What else needed to be said? The story goes that
caesar took brutus under his wing when he was nobody in particular,
got him into the senate, etc. Treachery.
--
Noah Sombrero

Julian

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Feb 20, 2024, 9:10:21 AMFeb 20
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Julian

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Feb 20, 2024, 9:22:31 AMFeb 20
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"...and we made public works to zero, because
we consider it a machinery aimed at creating
corruption."

Take a bow, HS2.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Speed_2

In 2012 it was budgeted for £30 billion.
A pale shadow of the original project
could now be as high as £170 billion.

The UK is world champion at this kind of thing.

Wilson

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Feb 21, 2024, 10:35:08 AMFeb 21
to
California is right there with the UK for inefficiency and corruption.

Approved in 2008 with a target completion date of 2020, the original
cost was $33 billion for an 800 mile system. It's now estimated that it
will cost $207 million *per mile* (that's $165,600,000,000 for the
entire route) if any of it ever gets completed at all. Which it probably
will not.

https://www.hoover.org/research/californias-high-speed-rail-was-fantasy-its-inception


Julian

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Feb 21, 2024, 10:59:18 AMFeb 21
to
HS2 won't actually get to London now...

There's a good diagram of what was planned
and what might be delivered.

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/hs2s-euston-station-at-risk-as-old-oak-common-emerges-as-potential-london-terminus-65788/

Wilson

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Feb 21, 2024, 12:39:34 PMFeb 21
to
It's like the two projects are doppelgangers of each other. The
California route was originally intended to go from LA to San Francisco.
Because of political wrangling the route was changed to go through the
central valley. The only part that's now in process is Bakersfield to
Merced. Which is nowhere to nowhere.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Route_of_California_High-Speed_Rail


Noah Sombrero

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Feb 21, 2024, 2:01:53 PMFeb 21
to
>>>> In 2012 it was budgeted for Ł30 billion.
>>>> A pale shadow of the original project
>>>> could now be as high as Ł170 billion.
>>>>
>>>> The UK is world champion at this kind of thing.
>>>
>>> California is right there with the UK for inefficiency and corruption.
>>>
>>> Approved in 2008 with a target completion date of 2020, the original
>>> cost was $33 billion for an 800 mile system.  It's now estimated that
>>> it will cost $207 million *per mile* (that's $165,600,000,000 for the
>>> entire route) if any of it ever gets completed at all. Which it
>>> probably will not.
>>>
>>> https://www.hoover.org/research/californias-high-speed-rail-was-fantasy-its-inception
>>
>>
>> HS2 won't actually get to London now...
>>
>> There's a good diagram of what was planned
>> and what might be delivered.
>>
>> https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/hs2s-euston-station-at-risk-as-old-oak-common-emerges-as-potential-london-terminus-65788/
>>
>
>It's like the two projects are doppelgangers of each other. The
>California route was originally intended to go from LA to San Francisco.
> Because of political wrangling the route was changed to go through the
>central valley. The only part that's now in process is Bakersfield to
>Merced. Which is nowhere to nowhere.
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Route_of_California_High-Speed_Rail
>
Near LA to near SF through empty desert. Could be nimby's and high
real estate values had something to do with that route.

Since you reference wiki, here is what it says

"The California High-Speed Rail system will be built in two major
phases. Phase I, about 520 miles (840 km) long using high-speed rail
through the Central Valley, will connect San Francisco to Los Angeles.
In Phase 2, the route will be extended in the Central Valley north to
Sacramento, and from east through the Inland Empire and then south to
San Diego. The total system length will be about 800 miles (1,300 km)
long.[1] Phase 2 currently has no timeline for completion.

The Interim Initial Operating Segment currently under construction
will connect the downtowns of Merced and Bakersfield. Its completion
date is estimated to be between 2030 and 2033.[2]

The route of Phase 1 has been selected, however, the route for Phase 2
has not been finalized."

Also

"On August 13, 2008, California Assembly Bill 3034 (AB 3034) was
approved by the state legislature and signed by Governor Arnold
Schwarzenegger on August 26, 2008.[3] The bill was submitted to
California voters in the November 2008 election as Proposition 1A and
approved.[4] "

Which suggest that various parties and administrations have been
involved with the project, and your assertion that phases 2 has been
abandoned is not supported. The situation does not appear so dire as
you suggest, although final completion might well be somewhere near
2050, maybe. 10 years more or so for completion of phase 1. Actually,
the whole idea seems like a boondoggle to me. Who knows what needs
will look like in 2050. Is there sufficient traffic between sf and la
to justify a 40 year rail (not auto) project?

However the boondoggle, if it is such, is attributable to human
foolishness, which includes us all and your tribe (Schwarzie and
successors includes r's).


--
Noah Sombrero

Creon

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Feb 22, 2024, 1:55:07 AMFeb 22
to
>>>>> In 2012 it was budgeted for £30 billion.
>>>>> A pale shadow of the original project could now be as high as £170
The money would have been better spent with rural internetification.

Fiber-to-the-home everywhere would stimulate the economy much
more than the boondoggle.

--
-c

Noah Sombrero

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Feb 22, 2024, 8:24:01 AMFeb 22
to
On Thu, 22 Feb 2024 06:55:03 GMT, Creon <cr...@creon.earth> wrote:

>On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 14:01:49 -0500, Noah Sombrero wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 12:39:34 -0500, Wilson <Wil...@nowhere.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On 2/21/2024 10:59 AM, Julian wrote:
>>>> On 21/02/2024 15:35, Wilson wrote:
>>>>> On 2/20/2024 9:22 AM, Julian wrote:
>>>>>> On 20/02/2024 14:10, Julian wrote:
>>>>>>> On 22/01/2024 19:43, Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 1/22/2024 1:55 PM, Julian wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 22/01/2024 16:30, Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 1/22/2024 11:18 AM, Julian wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Javier Milei is right to take his chainsaw to tenancy
>>>>>>>>>>> regulations
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Progressives wishing to ape Argentina's experiment with rent
>>>>>>>>>>> caps should look at its results
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The supply of rental properties in Buenos Aires has surged
>>>>>>>>>>> since Milei scrapped his predecessor's policy
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In his ascent to Argentina?s presidency, Javier Milei was
>>>>>>>>>>> distinguished not just by his libertarian ideology but also for
>>>>>>>>>>> his pedagogic approach towards economics. On the campaign
>>>>>>>>>>> trail,
>>>>>>>>>>> he would regularly articulate the basic principles of market
>>>>>>>>>>> economics.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Now in government, the fiery libertarian?s ?shock therapy? is
>>>>>>>>>>> turning those lessons into hard case studies. Within executive
>>>>>>>>>>> Decree 70/2023, translated as ?Foundations for the
>>>>>>>>>>> Reconstruction of the Argentine Economy,? Milei took his
Or maybe homes for street people, including meals. .....ooooh, run,
duck, hide....
--
Noah Sombrero

Noah Sombrero

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Feb 22, 2024, 8:34:52 AMFeb 22
to
On Thu, 22 Feb 2024 08:23:56 -0500, Noah Sombrero <fed...@fea.st>
wrote:
shadup with ideas like that. Yergunamakecraziescomeout. Dam, Inewit,
her comes williejules.

But just think of all the jobs you could create for unemployed
construction workers and burger flippers. Nowyergunagetit. ewwww.
sokbiffpow.
--
Noah Sombrero

Wilson

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Feb 22, 2024, 9:34:37 AMFeb 22
to
They will spend the money where they want.

For one example that's been in the news lately, New York City is
reportedly spending the equivalent of $80,000 per illegal immigrant per
year. They are giving them $2,000 cash cards and housing them in fairly
nice high rise hotels in Manhattan.

The median wage in the US is somewhere around $55,000. People who are
working in mid level jobs can't afford to live in the city.


Noah Sombrero

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Feb 22, 2024, 9:57:35 AMFeb 22
to
Nah, that doesn't create construction and burger jobs. Of course, if
people with mid level jobs can't afford to live there with 55,000
neither can immigrants.

Besides which, NY immigrants (sent there by r govs) has nothing to do
with housing street people in calif. Maybe ny should send tx a bill
for housing their immigrants. No, no, lets simply put them to work
building houses. Just think, ny could get something for their 80
thou.
--
Noah Sombrero
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